Mini Normal 2334: trees (Day 5)

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

VOTE: DrNickRiviera
I don't trust doctors

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

As a grass type, the flavor of this game pleases me. What's everyone's favorite tree?

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

What does getting a red role pm mean?

it means I'm your traitor, please recruit me immediately.

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

What does getting a red role pm mean?

It means I finally get to vote you!

VOTE: Hu Tao

The mafia are fine fedora wearing folks that are no harm, please cease.

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

VOTE: Elements

<3

Why did you vote Madman?

I disagree with basically everything he's said and then he vote no lim

Does that mean they are scum?

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

I mean yes they can be scum but I don't see anything that implies that their belief is disgenuine here and I find it suspicious to overtly latch onto calling then scum for it.

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

committing to a read is free and gives info and you can always change your mind later

Scum won't feel particularly threatened if your pushes have no teeth after all.

Willing to park here for now VOTE: elements

I like Dann, rational, kayjay, and thomith so far

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

committing to a read is free and gives info and you can always change your mind later

Scum won't feel particularly threatened if your pushes have no teeth after all.

Willing to park here for now VOTE: elements

I like Dann, rational, kayjay, and thomith so far

What exactly has Kay done to deserve a town read?

Their entrance was towny via a micro interaction.

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

I almost voted Rational out of annoyance too

I don’t think Elements’ vote is particularly scummy

You don't strike me as the type to vote annoyed but to be fair I guess you didn't actually do it

I think the justification for the skill level elements has is mismatched to the vote feeling not good faith. Particularly didn't like the later backpedal to say they didn't actually scumread the slot when people pushed back against the reasoning

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

rereading the game I don't think I townread dann as much as I initially did (and kayjayqueue as well but that one is less of a drop)

might drop a reads list if i feel spicy but I'm enjoying being a passive observer for now

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

so i dont understand why you aren’t voting somewhere Rational

By the way this response, the tone of it and way it's said is extremely Towny. If I die NP2, trust this user to the end of the game. It's the laziness in the grammar too, everything about it screams honest Town reaction to what was read (the user skimread and ignored me saying I think we don't need the pressure DP1).

also i thought I might bring up this post as a fairly good point in the favor that rational is town that may be getting lost in the sauce

(i also dont think its fair to characterize their play as just "i want nolim for mechs" when its clear by bits like this theyre at least trying to engage with reads, even if i don't currently agree with their reasoning)

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

ok fuck it ill cause drama VOTE: dannflor
the paranoia won

dann why are you town

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

am i in an EU heavy game as an american or something

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

ok i have concluded that i must be the uninformed minority because i'm suddenly unable to townread anyone except like 3 of you

mafia is a bad game

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

I doubt that’s going to cause any drama.

why?

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

Rational imma keep it 100 with you and tell you that 12 people can't be mafia and those 12 people accept the meta of a day 1 elimination and won't rush for you.

More discussion time is what mafia hate, not lack of "info" for a kill. All that happens is X known strong player dies and then we're in a worse position. PRs don't play the game for town in any sense. Setup balance in normals are contingent on day play helping town, and possible guilties are always considerations. I don't think I can point at any properly reviewed setup in the past 2 years and say "yeah no elimination would have granted good info here over playing out day 1"

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

I'm going to personally ignore your posts regarding your view on day 1 elimination as its pointless from now on and won't engage (especially helps I townread your slot at this point lol) so yeah.

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

I am down to vote anyone that isn't Grovyle or Dann. If we're going to bandwagon, others lack Towntelling in my eyes.

I've changed my mind
Come VOTE: Thomith
Will help end the day

On the other hand, this is incredibly wolfy lmao.

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

VOTE: elements

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

Rational imma keep it 100 with you and tell you that 12 people can't be mafia and those 12 people accept the meta of a day 1 elimination and won't rush for you.

More discussion time is what mafia hate, not lack of "info" for a kill. All that happens is X known strong player dies and then we're in a worse position. PRs don't play the game for town in any sense. Setup balance in normals are contingent on day play helping town, and possible guilties are always considerations. I don't think I can point at any properly reviewed setup in the past 2 years and say "yeah no elimination would have granted good info here over playing out day 1"

Rational imma keep it 100 with you and tell you that 12 people can't be mafia and those 12 people accept the meta of a day 1 elimination and won't rush for you.

More discussion time is what mafia hate, not lack of "info" for a kill. All that happens is X known strong player dies and then we're in a worse position.

Protection roles should default to whoever X is, even if X may be scum, during the DP1 no-elim, as that's optimal. I didn't want to clarify that in hopes it was simply how the instincts of any in that role (not excluding myself being that role, clarifying regardless) would go.

Idc what the scum members say so I only care that the other 9 all seem against no elimination. They are incorrect but I have to obey it as conforming to Town members you disagree with is part of the game.

scum are against no elim because town is lol.

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

VOTE: gibido

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

Yes I have. DP2 is a normal day, normal pressure whatever. Hopefully with a report on another player and claim leading toa crush proper structure of who to revolve the DP around and real situations where reactions actually matter to read rather than this DP1 chaos.

But if no one says anything on day 1 and there is not PR claims at the start of day 2, what is actually the difference in game state other than having less town players alive?

Spoiler: spoiler

You have to use the spoiler= tags to spoiler quotes

Well if Mafia hit jackpot and kill a significant PR before it is useful then nothing but the mafia will claim such a PR anyway when voted DP1 and either force out a CC or end up lucky and unCCd and later end up winning a clash probably.

I admit ironically that the case the mafia is not CCd means they lack information on PRs in terms of who but now out of the simple normal PRs they know one that is not present in the game and as others unvote them due to no CC it means that Town has to hit 1 in 6 chances of the 2 in 12 others and have the Scum probably decide which one ends up going as the temporary clear.

It's just a lot of lose-lose scenarios.

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

we get it bro ur a fucking pr you lit the goddamn bat signal to mafia you are pr just take ur fucking n1 death and stop trying to impose your shitty mafia theory on the rest of us and distracting everyone from playing it the more optimal way which is actually discussing pushes and such.

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

only people with brainworms from playing on epicmafia too much think that PRs are good because the setups there are built so swingy and PR reliant despite the winrate probably going up if people stop worrying about PRs as much

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

I wanna vote in Gibdo/Salty/Rational/Hu today
In no particular order

Why Gibdo? I didn’t feel strongly either way about the entrance post.

why not gibido

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

also to go back to rationalman, awesome is probably one of the top towniest slots in the game right now and its incredible they are just OMGUSing because the dude just disagreed with them. i would be incredibly shocked to see awesomeming flip red here when they fit to a T how a less experienced townie might react to rationalman's play here which is to rightfully contextualize an experienced player pushing bad strategy as potentially suspicious while understanding it to be more of a towny thing to do from a new account.

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

team is probably something like gibido/cactus/elements atp but knowing myself thats probably only 2/3. i don't think this is a difficult game though even if part of that is wrong tho (unless it is a hard game in which case good luck yall im always dead before limlo)

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

i dont buy the reasons for elements being town here, feels like cope more than actual analysis (or straight up BS from certain people) - but awesomeming's post has made me consider an angle i had previously discarded(that i'm personally weak to) and uh kinda awkward but they have a point im giving rational too little credit and shortcutting my read on the basis that i should not respect them which I tend to do too often

VOTE: RationalMadman
lets see how he handles one of his townreads turning on him at the very least

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

idk I think my Grovyle town read is getting weaker on the basis of other town reads getting stronger

and also the fact that i think his solve in 399 is somewhat likely to be 0/3

they also keep talking about how elements is scum but don't really seem engaged in pushing that convincingly

"I disagree so ur scum" type vibe

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

I don't try to pull the thread into 4 different directions and my solve has evolved past that point anyways to include rational.

your elements townread feels extremely bizarre here as I really see little to townread elements off of and it makes no sense for a town elements to make up such poor reasons for their push to eliminate Rational. in retrospect it looks more likely to be a distancing push to have a good 'excuse' to not vote there if actual pressure forms. (which indeed is going on in element's most recent vote to bring CCS to a tie with rational)

If you want to call me scum for being wrong, flip one of these 2 and then you can see if my thought process stays the same if i am wrong. if im right, then you are then burdened with changing your mind. at this point I don't think I can avoid resolving this dynamic.

you also throw out a bunch of assumptions about gibido that i find entirely unconvincing and I will trust myself on that player rather than someone who they know how to manipulate personally, no offense. Have had a few games in recent times where X player was vouched for by Y player who knew them and I felt they were wrong but allowed myself a sheep for the day phase and ended up losing due to it, so while I can avoid pushing them day 1, I will not take them out of my PoE for you.

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

Based off of vibes I feel like Dann/Gibdo are either both town or both scum. Leaning town right now though I think.

I could definitely see a world where Dann is scum with Gib as town(in theory), as I have said I feel good about Dann as town......but I don't think it is a lock they are both the same alignment, and nothing else

I promise I am not trying to fight everything you say just for shits and giggles lol

And yes, I think you asked before......I still think you are scum, but also am not hating the votes on CCS

why are CCS votes good to you?

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

I did a quick read and I still want to eliminate salty. I'm getting vibes there of scum. I'm also getting small pings from gibdo

I empathize with Elements' Rational vote even though I think Rational is probably town

Why

Because I think Rational's posting is actively harmful to Town EV at worst and annoying/creating disengagement at best

Who cares? He's obvious town. Why would we want to eliminate him.

i hate this thought flow it doesn't feel genuine to me and I probably should re-iso hu tao at some point and that point will be thursday goodbye chat

side note: i dont like the ccs wagon esp with elements on it, and I don't trust dann's logic for his reads so far (maybe he gets better with a flip though)

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

i lied about leaving because i was thinking about thomith and i got dragged back and i reskimmed his iso and he has a few points that are almost blatantly towny despite my disagreement with a lot of his takes. i would veto that slot for day 1 @CCS @drnick

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

im feeling sick and about to nap but from what ive skimmed from hu tao as promised I agree with dann VOTE: hu tao. overall feels like a TMI filled slot that lacks any towny passion.

if i dont give proper content by the end of tonight please vote me (half serious) lmao

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

Black replaces KayJayQueue

oh no

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

well uhhhhh kayjay slot is probably slot then

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

I think you shouldn't speculate replace reasons and just read the player instead.

Anyway rational can you tell me who else you scumread besides awesome?

That's literally part of reading someone other than awesomeming.

Elements is my main scumread outside him but the replacement ramps up how Inperceive the exact things you were saying about KJ. It alsoakes me incidentally Townread you as I don't see her bussing just before quitting. So KJ scum makes me hard Townread you for that ending.

push townie -> vocalize suspicion on partner

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

rational elements you if i had to say

2/3rds of a mindmeld pog

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

rationalmadman im starting to get behind your read on awesoming but considering his acc age its far too early to be pushing this hard.
imo it is hard to get a proper read on awesoming if youre breathing down this neck.

No it's not. It's easy. Pressure leads to tells.

and throwing a read at the wall continuously with no reevaluation is also a tell that a player is not absorbing info as it comes and arbitrarily assigning alignments.

awesome started pushing on you and that is all the reason you have for that.

i started pushing you, you're frozen asf not able to reply to me in the same way.

people townread you for bad reasons but you aren't making it to endgame here.

your lack of a holsitic worldview is telling and as soon as we flip at least 1 scum you're effectively done lol

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

rationalmadman im starting to get behind your read on awesoming but considering his acc age its far too early to be pushing this hard.
imo it is hard to get a proper read on awesoming if youre breathing down this neck.

No it's not. It's easy. Pressure leads to tells.

and throwing a read at the wall continuously with no reevaluation is also a tell that a player is not absorbing info as it comes and arbitrarily assigning alignments.

awesome started pushing on you and that is all the reason you have for that.

i started pushing you, you're frozen asf not able to reply to me in the same way.

people townread you for bad reasons but you aren't making it to endgame here.

your lack of a holsitic worldview is telling and as soon as we flip at least 1 scum you're effectively done lol

No it isn't. antibody can read the reasons I scumread him even before he suspected me. You liar.

im accusing your reasons of being adhoc to the scumread awesoming made on you

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

Big bad grovyle ain't making it to endgame either.

im not you're right

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

Black replaces KayJayQueue

oh no

Hi do I know you?

well uhhhhh kayjay slot is probably slot then

What does this mean

i meant to say town

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

Black replaces KayJayQueue

oh no

Hi do I know you?

well uhhhhh kayjay slot is probably slot then

What does this mean

i meant to say town

Why am I town? And do we know each other?

cant say and yes

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

@mod V/LA until 4/14 8pm EDT

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

I quickly skimmed through a RM game just in case where he was scum and yeah he is different here.

link?

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

i think im back to fully townreading dann again btw
elements actually somewhat towny in recent posts

hu tao still my preferred elim here, awesomeming is slipping a little


rational still beating the same scumread into the ground is pretty cringe but the overall readslist that finally shows some holistic thought gives them a day 1 pass for me at this point

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

I agree with kayjay scum

can you explain why? I don't really see how you reached this honestly based on your progression?

can you post a full reads list whenever you have a chance so I can see where you are at here?

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

VC 1.14

awesomeming327 (5):

RationalMadman 266, DrippingGoofball 594, Dannflor 1153, Thomith 1156, Black 792

Dannflor (4):

Elements 997, camelCasedSnivy 1001, Hu Tao 1026[/b], DrNickRiviera 1030

Hu Tao (1):

Grovyle in a Fedora 736

RationalMadman (1):

awesomeming327 412

Not Voting:

Gibdo 604, ActionDan 1012

With 13 alive it takes 7 to eliminate.

Deadline:

(expired on 2024-04-17 20:15:00)

Notes: Grovyle in a Fedora is V/LA until 4/14 8pm EDT

what the hell happened while i was gone

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

im ok with flipping awesome as its not the worst poe flip that also resolves the most annoying slot in the game although id rather go hu tao first

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

@awesomeming intent to put you at e-1

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

(also i think through voodoo vibes that dann counterwagon and it being contested now makes it actually a good hit, and maybe hu tao might be kinda cleared off this so sorry dann)

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

I was never trying to frame KJQ back then (see 412)
I already responded to the part where I made a townie argument because I didn't know you were experienced in post 412

Please go read that again thanks

please don't fall prey for the mere exposure effect guys
just because rational's confident doesn't mean he's right

please don't fall prey for the mere exposure effect guys
just because rational's confident doesn't mean he's right

Ignore him for the moment and just answer my Qs ty!

i think elements has done towny things and scummy things. i do not have a solid read.

vibes are certainly good and progression with dann is also good

def a townread

i would like anyone who thinks rational's arguments have even a shred of logic in them to have a talk with me

bah this is mildly towny tho

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

VC 1.14

Hu Tao (4):

Dannflor 606, Grovyle in a Fedora 736, Black 792, Thomith 869

Dannflor (4):

Elements 997, camelCasedSnivy 1001, Hu Tao 1026, DrNickRiviera 1030

awesomeming327 (2):

RationalMadman 266, DrippingGoofball 594

RationalMadman (1):

awesomeming327 412

Not Voting:

Gibdo 604, ActionDan 1012

With 13 alive it takes 7 to eliminate.

Deadline:

(expired on 2024-04-17 20:15:00)

Notes: Grovyle in a Fedora is V/LA until 4/14 8pm EDT

actually dann cw gained real steam during hu tao wagon scratch my hu tao town theory

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

i kinda dont really care for doing more solving today honestly im in "flip something and we get info next day" mode and if i die i die and people just sheep my poe(hopefully)

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

lets get it VOTE: hu tao

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

Based off of vibes I feel like Dann/Gibdo are either both town or both scum. Leaning town right now though I think.

I could definitely see a world where Dann is scum with Gib as town(in theory), as I have said I feel good about Dann as town......but I don't think it is a lock they are both the same alignment, and nothing else

I promise I am not trying to fight everything you say just for shits and giggles lol

And yes, I think you asked before......I still think you are scum, but also am not hating the votes on CCS

4 days....but who's counting? You, that's who lol

Also, from earlier in D1, or as you would call it.....EOD right around the corner

Also, hi I am an alt....played a bunch with Dann...and Hu on my main. Slowly getting both their town games down, was seeing it early from Dann and somewhat from Hu, after 841 the real waffling started, especially after(I believe their fight started before that, could be wrong there) they butted heads....which as you can imagine I was very interested in.

So ya, we can argue when exactly my waffling started, but in my head it was for most of the day

I am not following your thought process at all. You also get some VIP privilege to hide your main from others which I assume is part of Normal Game conduct that we can't demand it.

If you had to name scum rn who would you name?

Also this isn't a good time for me. I can better give myself to this game in a couple days' time but even then I'm a bit busier irl depending which hours.

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

I think I agree that scum are trying to frame Hu. I don't really see Hu making that hit

this literally doesnt happen, i thought you were supposed to be one of the better scum players on the site?

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

I'm voting Dr Nick, Elements, ActionDan this DP.

If Black were scum, why changed rapidly after Dannflor did? That is not the logical scum move.

She made the wagon on awesomeming gain momentum as mucna s Dann did.

DrNick and Elements were voting Dannflor throughout. Only hammering awesomeming means nothing, elements gets absolute zero towncred for that one top of pussyibng out of admitting she put Dannflor in danger over Hu Tao and stuck on him over awesomeming when I called.her out on it. She outed as vanilla townie for no reason at all. DrNick similar issues with denying putting Dann under kill threat.

ok annoyingly i thought you were possibly scum bc i thought you were showing the signs of a scum hellbussing their teammate losing steam the dayphase right after but this is something i mindmelded on so its probably wrong. still have my eye on you

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

Idc what you want, I fully believe you're scum.

I am not naive either.

Scum killed Dannflor to partly frame those after him, that is patently obvious. However, who after Dannflor did everyone suspect? Hu Tao and CCS.

It was those 2 specifically being framed by aiming for him, meaning even another after him can be scum so long as the other was either unvoting (ActionDan) or on the Awesomeming bandwagon.

again, scum do not do "frame kills" unless they are actively throwing or already have a positive gamestate. either scum are too simple and go for obvious targets to silence them or they are big braining themselves while killing a threat.

killing random useless player is not scum MO ever and its a stupid first assumption to make when doing NKA. if you died with a scumread, would you assume that scumread was wrong? what if dann flipped last night, and instead you died overnight RM, would that point towards awesoming being framed? no thats silly. scum dont keep loud people around who are correct.

I think there are more reasons than his hu tao read that he was killed fwiw but I think "framing hu tao" is absolutely an absurd reason and its more likely hu tao is just red and a primary reason, because only dann was really yelling for hu tao's head last dayphase.

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

also i think its completely ridiculous to immediately point to "bussers" without a good reason, like only focusing on late voters or poorly explained votes that were at an awkward stage. I'd rather people be pushing me over people on wagon because its frankly annoying to see it happen consistently and be the wrong play over and over.

can there be scum on wagon purely? yeah
can there be scum off wagon purely? yeah

but thats never 100% and should be evaluated carefully, not with shortcutted assumptions.

like lets assume there are bussers - i think the assumption that thomith and black for example are bussers is completely ridiculous in context of their votes being swing votes to make awesoming a real wagon.

like if we analyze how wagons went down, I think it really does point straight at hu tao being red and it makes no sense to go anywhere else this day phase. it was hu tao vs dann at first then the hu tao wagon became the awesomeming wagon and was awesome vs dann -> and we know the alignments now of the 2 wagoners. I personally would not want to resolve wagons like this as info if i were scum, unless I was sure that keeping that person alive was more detrimental to my wincon than the info it might give town. this case is where hu tao fits in - only a hu tao team 100% of the time kills dann - granted there may be other micro reasons to kill dann there like a PR read, seeing as he did flip one, or that he is mostly clear due to being a counterwagon and RM having otherwise poor reads, but thats a fringe case that I don't think outweighs the evidence pointing towards hu at this point.

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

I think I agree that scum are trying to frame Hu. I don't really see Hu making that hit

this literally doesnt happen, i thought you were supposed to be one of the better scum players on the site?

I think Dann was a fine kill knowing I'm scum. Especially since he was a counter wagon to awesome

ftfy

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

I've played in a few games with neighborizer where the hood was open since game start, so if anyone here was hooded by dann, please, before the day ends, claim that you were hooded and if he had written in it if it was indeed open since game start.

otherwise I will assume scum got hooded here.

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

(also if it mismatches dann's stated reads on day 1, we can get an insight into the player who is in the hood to some extent)

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

to be clear, i claim I wasn't hooded here.

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

I think I agree that scum are trying to frame Hu. I don't really see Hu making that hit

this literally doesnt happen, i thought you were supposed to be one of the better scum players on the site?

First of all rude. I'm decent but there's countless people better than me

I'm kinda shocked you think scum don't consider the ramifications of the kill when deciding who gets the bullet

I will agree with Black here

Fedora, it does seem a bit that you are assuming how you would play things is exactly how others would play it.....never good to make these assumptions

I speak from a lot of experience watching play and not just my own.

I have considered the ramifications - and the ramifications are that dann would be more likely to be alive in a town hu tao world.

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

ergo at best you should say the kill has no bearing on what hu tao's alignment is, and I personally already believed hu tao was scum at eod1 and think their entrance to d2 was scummy

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

if frame kills DO happen, its most often in desperate situations (like 1 scum left type deal or the entire team is PoEd by multiple people) OR in an endgame lylo scenario - both of which are not contextually relevant here.

if you think hu tao is town, find a good reason he died outside of that. because its 100% not for framing that slot. I will personally go with the nice easy answer thats been clear since EoD1 and keep the wagon warm for whenever people wake up to the right answer

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

Grovyle I'll give you a cookie if you tell me your main

remind me when we're both dead or the game is over for me to do this, i like cookies

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

sorry you're a doctor and cookies are bad for you

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

2 things:

1. I was gonna quick hammer awesome at e-1 but wasn't here. (No one will believe this but it needs to be said)

2. Dann, now that you're in dead thread and see that I'm town, can you agree see why I said I'm scared of trying to read you. Cause i really did think you were scum this game cause what I pointed out.

i

We lost a neighborizer, well that sucks.

Prediction: awesoming was bus'ed by both their buddies. That slot was more useful as a source of town cred than alive.

have
Tbh neighborizer isn't that strong. Could be worse

no

Good news is, Dann I will try my hardest to win this for you as my apology for tunneling you like that.

idea

I have thoughts but I want others to speak

hmm

Camel I think is still a good vote

who knows

We lost a neighborizer, well that sucks.

Prediction: awesoming was bus'ed by both their buddies. That slot was more useful as a source of town cred than alive.

Thomith 1156, Black 1159, Gibdo 1223, Elements 1261

Probably in there.

Hu Tao (4): Dannflor 606, Grovyle in a Fedora 736,

Black 792, Thomith 869

awesomeming327 (2):

RationalMadman 266, DrippingGoofball 594

We can just lim black and thomith and win.

I think this is a pretty scummy narrative and it feels like posturing to just push everyone on ming's wagon until they hit scum

I had the same thought

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

nice i accidentally embedded the word have into a quote

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

did you think dann was scum after the awesome flip

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

i think its wild to claim one would quickhammer a slot that claimed PR there after that slot was a townread beforehand

natural towny instinct is to believe that at first and not think "imma hammer that now"

that exchange with awesomeming does not seem to me they are fishing for votes on hu tao, it looked like fishing for a wagon outside of hu tao if anything while feeling obligated to potentially bus

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

i dont think hu is actually parsing the game in a towny way and is just Making Stuff up in reaction to whats immediately visible.

im gonna go do my homework but i suggest people solve for the 3rd at this point, I think hu tao is a wrap.

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

i think its wild to claim one would quickhammer a slot that claimed PR there after that slot was a townread beforehand

natural towny instinct is to believe that at first and not think "imma hammer that now"

that exchange with awesomeming does not seem to me they are fishing for votes on hu tao, it looked like fishing for a wagon outside of hu tao if anything while feeling obligated to potentially bus

This take is WILD

"im gonna look at some other options instead of committing to hu"

"hey can you talk to me about your potential hu scumread so i can maybe dissect it"

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

Unrelated, I would never defend or soft defend a goon if they were my partner. Maybe an important PR but cred of bussing early is way better than trying to save a goon partner

considering this is a Simple normal, its very likely the scum team have very little power, so this is frankly not a real point

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

Yall act like I can't change reads after I see something that changes my mind. LMFAO. this is crazy

theres a difference between changing out of convenience and changing because genuinely seeing something new

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

RM, why is hu tao town?

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

and don't give me your NKA drivel please

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

ok lol

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

a lot of words to not actually explain why hu tao is town

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

people like you have inconsistent methodology and think you're gods gift to mafia but refuse to consider being fully accurate. you might notice I personally showed skepticism on your alleged read on awesome because I don't take shortcuts that don't actually always work. (nevermind the fact your reasoning was completely coincidental and likely just part of awesome's mimicking of his town play rather than something scummy)

and its insulting to claim such credit on awesome when people changed their mind on their own due to awesome falling off - not because of some magical case you made. awesome dug his own grave, not you at all. in fact, you did more to potentially help him go free due to being annoying about it than


so yes, it is nonsense to me when you claim things like that hu tao is town because dann died with no critical thought beyond that, something that insults Dann's and I's reasonings we have developed for hu scum.

hell part of me still thinks you're a player who selfishly thought awesome was dead weight and hellbussed them and are now just tunneling your way through the game and defending a scum hu here.

so frankly, back up your shit and don't give me cheap shortcuts

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

I thought we had a slam dunk case on hu tao here and we could smooth sail to day 3 while looking for a 3rd here rather than having to fight about it but I guess Mr expert over here knows better

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

i feel like im not the only one to pop into thread, see several RM posts, and immediately lose the will to play in this game

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

I do feel obligated to mention that Dannflor neighborized me in the night before he died and had some final thoughts to share that may be valuable to the town.

He revisited the conversations between Elements and awesomeming, and came to the conclusion that Elements is looking pretty town. In fact, his strongest townreads were RM, DGB, Thomith, Elements, and ActionDan. Scummiest reads were Grovyle, cCS, and Hu Tao.

His final thought was that Grovyle was starting to look more suspicious than Hu Tao was in his eyes.

did he give any reasons?

also I'm assuming then you did not really read daystart since I called for whoever was hooded to claim this asap

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

i feel like im not the only one to pop into thread, see several RM posts, and immediately lose the will to play in this game

That's crazy. If I were scum that would be a superpower. There are many other players here why aren't they inspiring your will to play? After all you did to kill my will to play and post I'm still here, posting. Complain to someone who cares.

i got good by pushing past that urge, but ok buddy. i'll still carry you if you aren't a scum who already threw the game away by hellbussing.

I find little plausible reasoning that makes actual sense from your pushes. you are hurting town with how you are playing by spamming thread and making people not want to play

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

i wanna say i havent said much about CCS because I have experience with the slot and I wanted to watch them play but now that theres a wagon on them I have to admit that i kinda suck at reading them and was hoping to find them towny at this point (and they havent been active enough to say "yeah i should remove them from the PoE)

my current solve as is is Hu Tao and then [elements, RM, DGB] and CCS is like not really a blip there i feel.

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

idk maybe DGB and RM make sense together here if we entertain the hellbus world but I'll let that one resolve over time because it will be extremely obvious in endgame and I trust people here to recognize that if true

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

I am glad others are starting to see KayJay-scum.

Why would Dann be scum?

You know what is a really solid scum tell? Asking me what the secret scum tell is. Why would a townie care?

its because i think your reads are tmi

any of them?

i dont think a single one has been explained

also, if I may be so bold to ask, why are you voting me?

your push on hu tao is unnatural to me

okay but why does that make them TMI

because goofball is pulling them outta their ass?

idk how "secret tells" are supposed to help town

ok in retrospect this looks really bad and actually points directly at hu tao + CCS lmao

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

if black is actually scum i want to congratulate RM for successfully turning me off to wanting to reevaluate the slot and want to kill it btw

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

but i doubt it because the guy is clearly just tossing darts at a board with weird biases

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

i mean ill say it, i strongly think RM is a PR and mafia should 100% kill that slot

wink wink theres a free grovyle PR read

and if its not PR then its scum simple as that

problem solved

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

i think we can kill RM on like day 4 if we havent found scum yet to keep him out of lylo but otherwise it would be kinda a throw to kill someone who hardpushed scum where its more likely they are town, even though the circumstances of their push are suspicious in some ways. self resolving slot etc etc

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

voting ccs would put them at e-1 and they havent spoken yet this phase so I won't vote but its there in spirit rn. i like to indulge in pedantry when it comes to maximizing info from flips lol

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

HURT: CCS

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

atp i wanna say DrNick thomith and gibido are my most confident townreads and then as an extension actiondan if im not being a coward and directly under that is RM and black

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

actually swap actiondan and black

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

good morning why is enchant here

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

Force replacing RationalMadman.

Enchant replaces RationalMadman

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

So i skimmed and main argument CSS is mafia is NK on neighborizer?

I mean just admit you police CSS for lurking why make up something huh

i think its because they look paired with Awesome + hu tao and thats my solve right now, but people arent wanting to kill hu tao here right now

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

I am tired of pretending i know how to play mafia can you just case it

cases are for nerds

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

I am tired of pretending i know how to play mafia can you just case it

cases are for nerds

I literally play dnd

and does anyone make cases in DnD? didnt think so

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

i wish i wasnt good enough at this game that I dont give into the urge to kill CCS before they have spoken bc my brain just wants *something* to happen at this point

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

hi i wont be able to post until tomorrow

welcome klick, I personally see gibido as genuinely towny esp with how they shared dann's thoughts putting them firmly into townpile, and wrt KJQ i put that down as someone demotivated by RM's play (which I sympathize with) + black and thomith both effectively swung the momentum towards awesome (away from hu tao i might add while dann was a wagon) which I feel effectively places them as town.

why do you think hu tao is not PoE material?

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

VOTE: klick

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

biggest fumble of a replace in I've seen for a while.
Good effort though , it'll convince some people.

The Hu tao reasoning is extremely shallow and contrived

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

I'm pretty sure this is Hu Tao's town game
I have a pretty good track record of reading Hu Tao
I have a fairly limited experience with her as scum, but I also think she has a really clear town perspective when she is town

Like this is something not real at all, and the push on thomith is entirely based on his play being "weird" imo.

I'm impressed by the weaving here but if you think past "lots of words" you quickly see what this slot is pushing an agenda to save Hu tao. I'm going to abandon pushing Hu tao for now just in case it's a white knight and we can test after they're dead, but this is the optimal kill today.

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

the entirety of klicks reads can be boiled down to how others are reading the Hu tao slot. Klicks agenda is to either forcefully save Hu tao or tie themselves to the slot.

Hard to tell.before flips.

One thing for sure is that dgb, thomith, and black are all unpaired 100% from klick/ccs at this point based on how he is talking about them here

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

VOTE: groyvle

this reaction tells me that the game is already won

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

I mean if Klick couldn't see Gibdo was town that's probably the biggest red flag to me now that he's caught up.

I still would like to look at thomith again anyway. I remember the awkwardness but I had decided none of it was scummy. I've been and will be busy this week. Will attempt some reading in a couple hours

i guess im biased due to my own pov but i personally understand the gibido thing because im primarily hinging it off dann being town, and had a scumread there d1. im kinda pedantic but im more like concerned about his hu tao read standing out from the rest of his reads in a scummy way in that it contrasts with how he explains his other reads.

post edit: i came back to thread and realized i never posted this by accident lmao

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

I can agree there at least

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

Ftr I believe klick would take that stance on me as town

and what about scum?

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

He wouldn't come up with it

that's not explaining what you think he WOULD do.
this is a lazy throwaway response to avoid answering a harder question

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

I'm scum. Remember? Why do you care so much? Or is this for more of your scum soliloquy

I presented a possibility that klick is whiteknighting you, actually. I'm trying to determine that so we don't just chain klick into you in case that's what he wants.

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

I'm happy to talk to anyone who is interested in talking to me instead of about or around me

This is what I've noticed this player list does. They just talk about someone and then run them up

I'm scum. Remember? Why do you care so much? Or is this for more of your scum soliloquy

Grovyle is trying to question you rather than just run you up, and you immediately shut them down?

ok to be fair I did try to run them up earlier, its more klick's incredulous defense with little reasoning had me change tact.

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

VOTE: Black

Why the swap?

desperation

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

i can confidently say this game is already over atp and we should just kill klick before he wriggles out

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

VOTE: Elements

I think this is the most viable

ill give u 1 thing

no matter what klick flips, i will give u the benefit of the doubt next day if i'm around. if klick is mafia? game is ez wrap it up youre never making endgame nevermind surviving it if you are mafia - if klick is town? its worth respecting how he felt about your slot to some extent.

I'm no speedrunner and a believer that mafia is a race of information - and letting you just die because "well its the game solved" is poor planning for contingencies where it isn't. But one thing i want you to do is to not just toss stuff like this out or ignore people's cases on others without addressing them - especially when many are accepting those cases as well reasoned.

also this is a trap to make u not kill me as mafia if u are mafia so take that as u will :3

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

I am hesitating on Klick really

you are gone for 3 days and this is all you have to say?

24 hours left by the way

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

I'm trying to decide if town!Klick would read 70 pages and then just give up like this

if the team was solidly PoEd yeah

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

me coming back to a counterwagon being pushed on elements and people potentially letting klick get away

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

i was hoping it would be nightphase by now so that it would overlap with when im busy
i guess i have time for a legacy in case klick is wrong, I still think thom is independently town regardless as well as gibido. those are 2 slots I'm willing to lose to at this point(bring me to lylo i dare you though). i think its clear i think that we just murder hu tao in the klick scum world. if hu tao is wrong it might just be between black and dgb then, which brings me to my next section which is more important since it means its not an easy game ->


if klick is wrong, I'm not sure how that affects hu tao, but I would keep them off the table the next day. i think it makes dgb probably super clear, and a much lesser extent black
enchant might be mafia at that point as well but i'm still unwilling to kill RM slot but I had some theories I was thinking off while I was doing work wrt how RM was playing and how it fit a scum agenda moreso than a town agenda. i've since stupidly forgotten the details but its mostly stuff I feel I have to err on the side of caution discussing iykwim(but its in thread and part of the game which is annoying and I am using it to read him whether or not its strictly allowed to be brought up lol). also it would pretty much make me an IC at that point if it was a scum slot so hey.

I would reexamine drnick and elements probably in this world as well as that contextualizes their dayphase here differently and elements' day 1 in particular has me slightly biased against the slot I admit

if we flip elements somehow then I think people are able to decipher my legacy backwards. if elements town it kinda doesn't tell me much because I'm operating from that assumption atm and I'd just advocate flipping klick still.

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

less than 24 hours @thomith @nick

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

R u kidding me

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

I was about to come into this day with a full blown push on enchant after that flip and now idk bc I reread nick/elements and they don't fit

no wonder awesome was so easy to kill fuck

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

VOTE: thomith fuck it

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

Elements
Gibdo
Black

choose one

Why

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

I mainly voted Nick to see if you would join me

I'm much more confident in scum!you than I am in scum!Nick

what do you think about thomith?

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

VOTE: Elements

Still just vibes?
VOTE: hu

I already explained you're different than the town game and similar to the scum game

can you link these?

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

VOTE: Elements

Still just vibes?
VOTE: hu

I already explained you're different than the town game and similar to the scum game

can you link these?

Here's teh werewolf one, idk which one the other one is
viewtopic.php?t=92097

is there one where you dont replace in

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

now you're making me do work

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

i skimmed 2 of elements full games as both town and scum and I concluded that i dont know how to read elements and that theyre not out of range
theres elements of their towngame and scumgame present here in this game - in terms of how they interact with other slots and how they appear to be solving.

town: viewtopic.php?t=92018
mafia: viewtopic.php?sid=&f=53&t=91293&user_select%5B%5D=32224

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

also coming around to a townlean on hu tao here has given me a bit of a funny picture with how drnick is still pushing the slot and the 3 posts in a row where other players said they dont want to push nick - being stuck on hu could just be scum indicative here, and that combined with the fact I have mostly townread the players around them, means resolving the slot is likely a hit
VOTE: DrNick

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

i skimmed 2 of elements full games as both town and scum and I concluded that i dont know how to read elements and that theyre not out of range
theres elements of their towngame and scumgame present here in this game - in terms of how they interact with other slots and how they appear to be solving.

town: viewtopic.php?t=92018
mafia: viewtopic.php?sid=&f=53&t=91293&user_select%5B%5D=32224

To elaborate - i think theres enough elements(hah get it) of their towngame present that flipping them here is a bad idea at the moment.

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

I'm having a pretty bad day at work so I'm not sure if I'll get the chance to look into Thomith later

I want to try to pull myself out of my Hu tunnel

VOTE: Hu

Game seems to be stalling a bit

Still feel this is the best course of action

these 2 are also never paired

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

Aureal replaces ActionDan

welcome

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

also coming around to a townlean on hu tao here has given me a bit of a funny picture with how drnick is still pushing the slot and the 3 posts in a row where other players said they dont want to push nick - being stuck on hu could just be scum indicative here, and that combined with the fact I have mostly townread the players around them, means resolving the slot is likely a hit
VOTE: DrNick

Why is Hu town?

after being forced to reeval klick due to well, his flip - i'll be honest and say i kinda broke my tunnel and realized i was just confbiasing hu tao based on dann's legacy and also the fact hu tao didnt really make sense with anyone I think is plausibly scum here.

their reaction to pressure has been actually good and they improved their play over time - I'm not extremely confident on this because dann DID die for a reason but I'm willing to give klick some credit on his read and see how the gamestate plays out without hu tao being on the chopping block. If hu tao is scum, they aren't getting far anyways, if hu tao is town this forces scum into an awkward position

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

also coming around to a townlean on hu tao here has given me a bit of a funny picture with how drnick is still pushing the slot and the 3 posts in a row where other players said they dont want to push nick - being stuck on hu could just be scum indicative here, and that combined with the fact I have mostly townread the players around them, means resolving the slot is likely a hit
VOTE: DrNick

I would see the writing on the wall and move off of Hu if I was scum.....or more specifically I would have held back my vote for now

I am always concerned about the optics of my actions as scum, not so much as town.

I don't care if everyone keeps town reading Hu, I still think she is scum(though probably is becoming a vanity wagon at this point)

where would you have seen the writing on the wall? can you ellaborate?

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

VOTE: Hu Tao

Get rekt, scum!!!!!

how much have you read so far?

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

good talk

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

but where do you see that?

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

where is this "writing on the wall"?

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

where is this "writing on the wall"?

I think Hu is scum and should be the lim

I am basically the only one who believes this(except for the amazing and lovely Aureal lol)

So......ergo, as I just talked about....I would back off Hu in the world where I am scum

Should I maybe actually write this on a wall??

in what world did u interpret aureal's entrance as a serious vote lol

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

Also, I don't mean this in a mean or insulting way I promise, have you never heard that phrase before?

no, I'm asking what posts in particular would have prompted you?

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

where would you have seen the "writing"

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

It kinda feels like one of the people soft defending me now is seeting up for tomorrow. Which I think is grov

this is completely arbitrary based on your bias against me

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

I'm pretty sure Hu is at e-1

Enchant?

im going to interpret this as a townslip

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

It kinda feels like one of the people soft defending me now is seeting up for tomorrow. Which I think is grov

this is completely arbitrary based on your bias against me

like its "i think grovyle is scum ergo this is how this interaction is going down" not "this interaction points towards this conclusion"

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

its refreshing to see that game activity is back at least while im able to actually play, although its finals week next week for me

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

It kinda feels like one of the people soft defending me now is seeting up for tomorrow. Which I think is grov

this is completely arbitrary based on your bias against me

like its "i think grovyle is scum ergo this is how this interaction is going down" not "this interaction points towards this conclusion"

like you've pushed this read weakly for a while and i dont really think you believe in it, regardless of alignment ofc, and thats part of what pinged me about you is that you were pushing this kind of disingenuous side push on me. if you are mafia, its entirely possible you just projected exactly what you are doing while watching me push over miseliminations although that doesnt quite fit as I have pushed you a good amount so far. I'm honestly not sure if a scum world makes sense with you which is why im giving you space and for the aforementioned reasons to shake up the gamestate. i don't see how i look like i'm "setting up" to elim you - in fact I feel like if I were scum I would have been impatient and wanted to kill you here, why allow you to get cleared?

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

like one of your accusations was to say i was monologuing or something which felt absurd because it is my playstyle, but i didn't pay heed to it because i thought you were scum but now that i dont think that anymore - that its something that I feel is just part of your confbias because its just *how i talk*,etc.

like we didnt catch awesome for example because of their speaking patterns. we caught them because they became more frozen over time and were struggling to get into the game - that is the kind of stuff that tends to define scumplay to me overall.

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

I'm pretty sure Hu is at e-1

Enchant?

im going to interpret this as a townslip

Sus post. Unless you don't know who enchant is

why is it sus?

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

He's implying he thinks that element thinks enchant is still alive. But I think it was just saying someone should quick hammer since enchant does that

how is it sus part 2

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

I'm pretty sure Hu is at e-1

Enchant?

im going to interpret this as a townslip

Sus post. Unless you don't know who enchant is

Lol, how is it sus?

lmao mindmeld

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

Oh yeah there was something else I guess I can just ask the mod about now!!!

@mod: at what point in the game would a Neighborizer be given a neighborhood?

to further answer this, gibido was hooded by dann

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

I do feel obligated to mention that Dannflor neighborized me in the night before he died and had some final thoughts to share that may be valuable to the town.

He revisited the conversations between Elements and awesomeming, and came to the conclusion that Elements is looking pretty town. In fact, his strongest townreads were RM, DGB, Thomith, Elements, and ActionDan. Scummiest reads were Grovyle, cCS, and Hu Tao.

His final thought was that Grovyle was starting to look more suspicious than Hu Tao was in his eyes.

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

He's implying he thinks that element thinks enchant is still alive. But I think it was just saying someone should quick hammer since enchant does that

how is it sus part 2

Sounds like you're trying to give someone a free tr. Could be cause I scumread you both though. And if you're scum together I could see it being a play

lack of awareness of the nightkill is a fairly good reason that someone would be town + i dont mind taking mild shortcuts when i still have time to reevaluate. plus it gives me reactions like this.

did you soft your role at any point?

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

I think elements may be town

I would tend to agree

No one I'd really standing out as a scumread so far I think this is the closest to one VOTE: salty

As much as I hate this non-committal play.....coming from you I think it kinda makes you town heh

who are you? Why do you know me so well! How did you know I was town

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

im ngl i think the doctor claim and insistence of bad faith from hu tao after i extended good faith feels scummy and just rereading this d1 from hu tao gives me icky feelings. i think hu tao started posting better once they had a backboard to bounce off of with being suspected and that sorta faded away with this dayphase. less confident but i think scum were already on wagon due to the way hu tao reactively claimed without significant pressure - most people off wagon were not looking to vote there and aureals vote was clearly unserious at first.

im going to give myself 15 minutes to think it over and i intend to put hu tao back at e-1.

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

rereading this game i dont think how hu tao played that they fit the profile of a town doctor

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

Shocking.

im giving you an extreme amount of good faith here and I expect the same in return, unless you're scum in which case go ahead and keep playing the way you are.

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

My role doesn't change how i approach a game

thats not how mafia works

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

the dann kill also makes sense in a world where you were to plan on claiming doctor as you have plausibility to say why you wouldnt save that slot when almost every other player as doc would have

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

My role doesn't change how i approach a game

thats not how mafia works

It should if you don't want to be meta read for being town or scum.

k

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

you keep making the exact flat arguments that scum make in this scenario. we are resolving you. VOTE: hu tao

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

A credible claim would be accompanied by a list of night actions.

I am willing to hammer HT.

exactly

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

And don't fall for any excuses tomorrow

sure

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

i will be sure to smoke the hu tao scum pack extra deeply tonight

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

BTW what does that "scum already on wagon" mean, you're saying you think Hu is being bussed here by an earlier voter?

yes but its more of a "post game cred" kind of guess that has no basis in consistency

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

fakeclaiming there is wild ngl!!

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

nick>gypyx>black>smiley>aureal>gibido>myself>dgb

claim order

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

It's Hu Tao, never trust anything she says

i wish i could have

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

Lolno

Why should obvtown go first

what makes them obvtown?

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

i have my reasons for dgb last

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

I will get ahead of all the claiming and say I jailed Thomith/smileydude, so take that when considering the NK

I also Jailed Rational N1(hence me asking him what he did, tried to catch him in a lie), and AD N2

oh interesting

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

i suddenly think dgb should claim sooner

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

VOTE: smileydude

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

Rules

(stolen from Ausuka)

General Rules:

1. Site Rules apply.
2. You may not quote your role PM, you may not quote any other PMs from me, and you may not quote the time at which I sent you any PM, nor may you attempt to prove any form of private communication in any way. See more information here.
3. Please don't try to impersonate the moderator.
4. If you have a question or concern, or if you think that I may have made an error, do not hesitate to ask in-topic or by PM. Be sure to bold requests directed at me so that I see them.
5. If you break any of these rules, you could be warned, force-replaced, or modkilled, depending on the severity of what you did.
6. If a player is modkilled, they will die and become a Neutral Survivor resulting in their loss.
7. Please be respectful and kind towards other players. I understand that Mafia can be a heated game sometimes, but there is a line, and if you cross it the game stops being fun. In particular, personal attacks are not allowed. Also, use people's preferred pronouns, as site rules indicate.
8. Once you die you may not post anymore.
9. No encryption please. Breadcrumbing is fine, but things like encrypting your role into scrambled text are not. If you have any questions about what does and does not violate this rule, feel free to ask me, and I will answer.
10. Don’t claim scum with another player in a serious manner. I will judge what counts as serious; don't toe the line. Claiming scum by yourself is fine, but please don’t lose the game intentionally by doing so.
11. Don’t work against your win condition.
12. Don’t use provable randomness. Saying “I rolled a dice and it landed on 2” is acceptable; posting a screenshot of you using random.org, or using dice tags, is not acceptable.
13. Never use OGI/outside game influence, including trust tells and discussing the game outside the thread. See more information here. Also, don't use AI such as ChatGPT to write posts.
14. If you want to replace out, PM me and don’t discuss it in thread. See more information here.
15. Use your common sense; I try to include as much as I can but this is probably not an exhaustive list of all things you are not allowed to do. I would caution against any kind of angleshooting.
16. I reserve the right to change any of these rules or any of the time, or make any judgement irregardless of what these rules say (although I will try to follow what I have said here as closely as possible.)
17. The spirit of these rules is what counts, not the exact wording. If you find a loophole in these rules, don't be surprised when you get punished anyway.
18. This is a Normal game, which means it will follow the normal guidelines outlined here. Additionally, this game is a Simple Normal, which limits the roles and modifiers in the game. Please find more information here.

Voting, Elimination, and Deadlines:

19. As with any mafia game, you can vote for a player to get them eliminated, you can vote for a No Elimination, or you can not vote at all.
20. Votes to eliminate must use the bold tags or the vote tags, like this: VOTE: X or this:

Vote: X

.
21. An elimination requires a majority (over 50%) vote. For example, when there are 13 players alive, it will take 7 votes to eliminate, because that is the smallest number over 50% of the number of players. A no elimination only requires 50% of votes.
22. Day 1 has a deadline of 12 days and subsequent days will have a deadline of 10 days.
23. When an elimination is reached or deadline expires, I will lock the thread and start the Night phase as soon as I can. You are allowed to post before I do this, if you want.

Prodding and Activity:

24. If a player fails to post for 48 consecutive hours, they will be prodded. If that player does not post for another 24 hours after they've been prodded, they'll be replaced. If a player has to be prodded three times, I may replace them.
25. If you are going away, or if you have limited access to the site, notify me by pm or in-topic so that I know not to prod or replace you. The maximum amount of time you may go without posting due to V/LA is 96 hours (four days).

Setup Information

A member of the mafia cannot both use the factional kill and an ability on the same night.

The sample VT Role PM can be viewed here:

Spoiler:

You are a

Vanilla Townie

You win the game when all living players are town aligned and at least one town aligned player is alive. Please confirm by PMing your role name

its highlighted in the rules post that nobody reads

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

Mass claim I see? Town Roleblocker.

Night 1 - no action
Night 2 - Black
Night 3 - Grovyle

ok i can confirm this is a true claim, and since all my targets have claimed I'll just claim early and say I am novice vanilla cop and i checked hu tao n2 and attempted to check dgb last night. i received no result last night.

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

quite obvious now why I flipped back onto hu tao after the claim, and part of why I somewhat backed off because it lowered the chances of them being scum to be vanilla

I had believed initially going into this day that DGB was a doctor who felt they were being counterclaimed by hu tao and thus why they had the same vibe

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

2 roleblocking roles seems wrong however, but i dont know if dgb is the type to trueclaim a scum result?

why did you target me dgb?

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

actually i feel like targeting me is a scumclaim because from dgb POV as a non doctor they should have seen I swapped over a bit oddly that eod, like how it felt obvious to me that dgb was a doctor there, i think it should have been the first thought as a town. as a scum roleblocker though the target makes sense.

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

2 roleblocking roles seems wrong however, but i dont know if dgb is the type to trueclaim a scum result?

why did you target me dgb?

I was hoping to stop the NK.

I dont believe you. I think you correctly assumed I was a PR there VOTE: DGB

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

2 roleblocking roles seems wrong however, but i dont know if dgb is the type to trueclaim a scum result?

why did you target me dgb?

I was hoping to stop the NK.

I dont believe you. I think you correctly assumed I was a PR there VOTE: DGB

Why DGB over Smiley?

Smiley's Lim resolves me as well, for anyone doubting my role

theres a more plausible world that dgb shot at thomith slot as perhaps a pr read here

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

by all accounts, dgb is the more sure shot here

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

My tinfoil hat for Groyvle as scum over DGB is getting bigger by the minute

My tinfoil hat for Groyvle as scum over DGB is getting bigger by the minute

Or is becoming less tinfoil I mean

why?

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

And yeah I suppose there's space for Grovyle to be lying about the specifics of the role but his play matches pretty well with it, and it's the blocker/blocker aspect moreso that goes against the grain of what I'd expect from a Simple

i basically hardclaimed my n2 result last dayphase before hu tao flipped i dont think there should be doubt my role isnt real

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

I will get ahead of all the claiming and say I jailed Thomith/smileydude, so take that when considering the NK

I also Jailed Rational N1(hence me asking him what he did, tried to catch him in a lie), and AD N2

oh interesting

i sure wonder what an individual who got "no result" would think of a roleblock claim on a target that isn't them ;P

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

nick having a tinfoil on me then makes me feel off because i dont think it makes sense unless you think dgb is town and roleblocked me performing the kill

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

the solve is probably thomith/dgb right now

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

So you think it's Grovyle and Nick?

dgb has shaded me the entire game

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

town may have power that is lying and not claiming here fwiw, and I wont say out loud what that power may be here for obvious reasons, I dont think its worth speculating the setup and I think smiley is doing so in a bit of a scummy way to discredit me in particular when my claim is effectively softed in the way I have played with the information I had from my role. Why am I going to check hu tao as scum when I want to find PRs to nightkill? it only goes to "setup bad".

(also its clear that nick is a gated role here, and we dont know DGB's gate if it exists, as scum or town)

It's also finals week for me starting tomorrow so I'm going to be incredibly busy (but ill try to pop in at least once every day or so) so

V/LA 5/8/2024-5/15/2024

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

Yeah I don't see much reason to shoot there either, which is exactly why the jk almost certainly was stopping him from making the kill rather than being it.

Also the whole "working in lockstep with Goofball to defend each other once they got tied together" thing.

If it's almost certain that Smiley is scum then why should we fade DGB today?

think of it this way: i think dgb is almost certainly scum here, and we have 2 PRs right now otherwise alive. since drnick is odd night, this means that if we remove scum's ability to roleblock, it will force scum to kill there and give me an extra result.

also thomith's actions are less scummy than dgb's here, and it very well could have been a PR read shot since scum have only shot 1 PR so far and probably are desperate to find another this close to endgame.

we remove scum's counterplay to the remaining PRs we have a good shot at getting good info the next day. does that make sense? id really prefer if you voted dgb first here for that reason

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

unless its you that's scum with dgb and want to kill a town thomith?

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

In the hypothetical case that we flip scum today, nick / DGB should both coordinate who they're blocking tonight

we should vote dgb today, not smiley/thomith, who has provided good enough content to give him credibility, the case against dgb is fairly rock solid right now, and you/black/drnick should vote there today.

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

anyways about to start my chem final, decided to pop in to let off some nerves, wish me luck!

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

In the hypothetical case that we flip scum today, nick / DGB should both coordinate who they're blocking tonight

we should vote dgb today, not smiley/thomith, who has provided good enough content to give him credibility, the case against dgb is fairly rock solid right now, and you/black/drnick should vote there today.

oh and gibido too

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

since drnick is odd night

??????

he only claimed odd night targets iirc?

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

my computer crashed during my exam btw just mobile posting while i totally am not freaking out over this

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

Grovyle who do you think DGB's likeliest partners are

honestly probably gibdo if i had to gth. only person i would say it definitely isn't is aureal though, but tbh thats a tomorrow if im alive issue lol