Large Normal 247 - Postgame

[Lycanfire]

Hey guys in town

UNVOTE:

Will catch up on my break in an hour or two

[Lycanfire]

Im ebwhop

[Lycanfire]

Saturday was the end of the period at work for me and being over Easter has kicked my ass a little.

I got through page 3 on my first break (man gotta eat)

-Naerys brought us out of RVS early. People did stop to talk about the speed of the wagon on Snow.

I like Dave just from 49, 58 right now. He wasn't afraid to buck the trend and start a random wagon, and his follow up seems pure (didn't seem invested in moving discussion away from Oblivion's theory). Not detecting an agenda here.


Thomith came off as fake solvy in 53, 64, and their interaction with Oblivion in post 52 was interesting. Any opinions here, S+S, T+S, T+T?


Naerys probably doesn't long quote Oblivion in 78 if partners just to give attention to Oblivion's weird level of confidence and to disagree.

More when I get home

[Lycanfire]

Okay sorry I have all the time in the world and coffee right now let's go

How am I coming across as fake solvey?

Because you were being very matter of fact. Timing and how you use your voice matters.

That's why I care very much about the interactions between Naerys-Oblivion-yourself. Scums tend to be uncomfortable at the beginning of a game, and the less you have to work with the more you have to fake it. The feeling of needing to have a valid opinion

only

comes from scum this early on. I didn't like how quicky we left RVS.

[Lycanfire]

RVS is a stage where everyone hand shakes that it doesn't really matter so people produce content with little concern of game direction. The direction can change on a dime, and everyone is okay with that. The low stakes give you a breadth of content for you to pick and pull apart. Scum want towns to fight early on, so they will attempt to end RVS early and force a town fight. It's +scum to end RVS early, because it hurts town cohesion.

Let's look at where we left it:

folks on speedwagon:gypyx,thomith,titus,geraintm,wisp
mhm

This didn't have to be the departure point. There's a universe where people just talk snark and continue. But we have Thomith/28, Naerys/31, Oblivion/44,46, Dave/45, Thomith/47,53,59 Oblivion/48 (my brain reacts very negatively to this post but it's probably because of writing style), Dave/58, Thomith/64, Gypyx/67, Kayjay/70, Dave/71/ Thomith/74. . Penguin and Gypyx are involved for pushing the other direction, but you can tell they don't actually give a shit so in a way they're continuing RVS.

This dominated the game state, so we can conclude RVS ended at post 27.

[Lycanfire]

Ranger talking about Ranger is pretty typical. If they start calling themselves a god of scumplay, though, that's when they might have a red pm.

Ranger I'm at page 13, what about you? I have notes if you want em.

[Lycanfire]

If my arguments are bad that's one thing. Do you get anything alignment indicative out of it? There's more than one angle to view a post, and I think my contribution do have value.

[Lycanfire]

Why are you exhausted by my posts? I'm acting in good faith here, and just expect the same treatment back. Can you give it another go?

[Lycanfire]

You're taking that overly personally. I wasn't sure how much I dislike 48. It's very serious and authoritative, and I don't quite understand the poisoned well analogy. I was second guessing I really thought it was bad or if it was a reaction to the posting style. Take a step back on that, please. It's a pretty balanced take on my part.

[Lycanfire]

I'd love to see them, although I won't read them until I have.

They're pretty surface level and I'm not getting much that pushes me away from my initial reads. Mainly focusing on who is shifting discussion where. I don't anticipate value from where I'm at until a red flip. Hoping for more certainty when I get to what set off elimination.

If you want them I could post them all but I don't feel like checking every line for pronouns because I'm writing quickly and not checking it over much.

[Lycanfire]

As much as this is entertaining (it's not) I'd like to ask Oblivion to read Ranger for reasons other than what Ranger says about herself.

Let me specify that you can feel free to scumread Ranger for reasons already given, but I'd like for you (Oblivion) push new content.

As for Ranger, please do what you can to catch up and sort.

[Lycanfire]

Don't feel like you have to get to where you repped in. Trust that the town will shout you down from a bad take. If you're town I'll back you up from elimination. I'd say the first day should give more than enough info to give high quality content.

[Lycanfire]

Naerys, are you claiming scum?

[Lycanfire]

I'm getting through the elimination phase of day 1. How do you feel about how this went down, Kay?

[Lycanfire]

I'll get up to that part. Holy hell this wagon goes on for 200+ posts. Was my slot a primary driver in getting this elimination through? Any comments on whether the NAS flip got us anything? Was it all-town? Throw me a bone.

[Lycanfire]

Well, do you still want my slot for elim? Did you get anything out of the flip?

[Lycanfire]

Trying to sort my thoughts out after finishing Day 1

Town
snow kay randomnurse geraint oblivion
penguin gypyx Titus
ranger(dave) hu thomith naerys
Scum

nulls don't exist roughly in line with how strongly i feel about everyone. happy to discuss any of these reads.

[Lycanfire]

I used to not read on replace-ins with flips but I wanted to contribute at the same time. Jackson looked like a TPR from an informed viewpoint, btw. He so much as shit on everyone for not sussing him. He wasn't relying on dayplay at all, so scum could have assumed TPR here. Thought this was interesting with the questioning of the potential of pressuring TPRs from thomith, and Jackson's immediate kneejerk in 582. Thomith/628 "ha i totally suspected jackson" post seems scummy.

[Lycanfire]

Seems pointless to say you would have voted a dead person for pressure. The vibe was that you thought they were scummy.

[Lycanfire]

We can disagree about wording if you want. In my experience scum like to discuss kills too much and towns are more concerned with mislims. Towns don't like feeling manipulated and kills are out of their hands.

[Lycanfire]

Okay. How do you feel about 644?

[Lycanfire]

I'm caught up.

I feel like Naerys has been trying to actively spew thinking they're an inevitable elim. 628 they give a rule of 3, which would point to kay, but I don't think kay makes the next post as a partner. They do the same thing in 647 which could be all-town given the other post. They blank vote onto Hu in 880 which seems like an anti-spew attempt. In 931 she blank votes Titus after Titus votes her.

I deliberately applied pressure to her because i was struggling to read her, but with how she responded to that pressure I am leaving towards her being town.

Last time I played with her when we were both Town I was questioning her and she shut down, tuetled uo, refused to answer any questions, and then got yeeted.

This is the only thing holding me back. Going to vote park VOTE: Hu Tao for now.

[Lycanfire]

Naerys: I'm interested in hearing reads from you. If you're town I don't want you eliminated.

[Lycanfire]

My scumread of Hu developed independently from 880. They're a shit starter, going back to day 1.

[Lycanfire]

It's prior experience with NAS is that NAS does not appear to be willing to offer much information in general, but it did see NAS play as scum and it wonders if this doesn't look slightly different? It feels... like a full model is escaping it but a partial model suggests this version of NAS is less defensive in nature.

This is your page 22 scumread?

[Lycanfire]

Is that the entirety of your Hu Tao case?

[Lycanfire]

maybe i'm wrong on the 2:3 theory but we at least have 3:2

I agree with this.
I don't think I see a world where there are 0 scum in the hood.

I do think I want to do this though
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Snow

What do you think of 644?

And why Snow?

[Lycanfire]

BTW, Hu Tao isn't scummy for tunnelling. That can come from town. I found her scummy because she wasn't doing anything to push Dave over NAS yesterday. Thomith-Penguin both noted "resistance" to NAS. Unvoted people that were active and not resisting: Hu (456, 481) Kay (471, 503), Gypyx (479 / lots of shit posts from her on page 20), Dave (514).

People that were resisting:
randomnurse
Willow/my slot
Oblivion
Snow
Naerys

The good from Hu: 489 where they resist NAS a bit, and 607 because I liked that she was watching the clock. I still don't like how they weren't pushing their read over NAS, but gave permission repeatedly for people to pursue NAS despite seemingly communicating the opposite.

[Lycanfire]

Snow is hard focused on me being scum because I was "PR Hunting", (or he at least believes thay Jackson was correctly saying I was PR hunting), but is refusing to elaborate as to where, so it feels like a blatant attempt to discredit me.

I noted the same thing independently in my read, but I found you less concerned with PR hunting and more LAMIST.

570 thomith look at me caring about TPRs )) scumpost

tho

579 willow my pred makes the same scumpost lol i'd like to think that they wouldn't make a townpost like this if thomith doesn't make them conscious of the possibly of outing prs

Snow had some of the most effort in D1. 345, laser focused on Naerys (382, 536, 602, 666). I don't see this as scum, and I found them consistently the most townie.

E: fixed formatting. The post was thus:

Spoiler:

Snow is hard focused on me being scum because I was "PR Hunting", (or he at least believes thay Jackson was correctly saying I was PR hunting), but is refusing to elaborate as to where, so it feels like a blatant attempt to discredit me.

I noted the same thing independently in my read, but I found you less concerned with PR hunting and more LAMIST.

570 thomith look at me caring about TPRs )) scumpost[/post]

tho

579 willow my pred makes the same scumpost lol i'd like to think that they wouldn't make a townpost like this if thomith doesn't make them conscious of the possibly of outing prs

Snow had some of the most effort in D1. 345, laser focused on Naerys (382, 536, 602, 666). I don't see this as scum, and I found them consistently the most townie.

[Lycanfire]

I mean, if you're scum Hu Tao is pretty townie. You'll need to prove her guilt or your innocence through other means.

[Lycanfire]

I'd like for you to claim Ranger. We've been through this before where I replaced in and shit town everywhere and scum!you wouldn't admit I was shitting town, all while complaining in the scum PT.

[Lycanfire]

Ranger, if you're town you need to back it up. Getting into large quotes with the people in the thread hasn't dissauded them so far from sussing you.

You've said your piece and they've said their own. Unless you GTH think they're surescum, please pivot to your scumreads. Something new is needed.

This isn't about what is fair or right. It's about what is needed to redeem your slot.

I have misgivings about your slot. I'll go into them if you want. What I'm trying to say is that there are valid reasons to sus you, and you need to go about this a different way.

[Lycanfire]

This isn't about what is fair or right. It's about what is needed to redeem your slot.

Pray tell, why does my slot need redeeming?

Your slot needs redeeming if we work with the conclusion it's suspicious. Here's my reasons:

dave was stirring shit up in 331 while not doing anything productive.
dave TRed Hu when he shouldn't have in 514, as Hu is doing the above as well
dave's reaction to jackson in 585 wrt to PR hunting. it's a "just what" kind of post. so bad.
-I don't like how you started with reads of a current page (talking about where you'd put me, despite only reading the first 5 pages and using that as a baseline to move people around after the fact).
-you talked me up as a great scumplayer the last time i replaced in
-Your trajectory on your read through lacks any passion, and I'm sure you were taught from a young age to show your work. You voted Hu after your page 13 read through, but didn't say why you wanted to vote her. This was within the minute of your P13 recap, and 7 minutes before the P14 post.

Hu didn't post between pages 10-13

. "P12 (no, that's not Naerys up; that's all of those names
down)" ??????

This is its shocked face.

Wait until you realize what davesaz's role actually was.

I am a N3 Vig/N4 Jailkeeper[/b]

???

UNVOTE:

I was wrong when I said I replaced in and Ranger couldn't TR me in another game. I was replacing into a lot of games around this time last year: i designed this setup in 2019 by xyzzy. scum imploded in this game. going to compare the ISOs, but I remember catching inconsistencies in Ranger's tier lists, which she stopped doing entirely at some point.

[Lycanfire]

VOTE: Ranger

I feel like they were working backwards with their reads, and that she had a reason to as well. I specifically told Ranger not to finish the game on short notice and find a good place to stop and drop reads there. I felt like I could have backed her up if she was entirely wrong due to missing info as I was freshly reading the game at that same time. Instead we saw a questionable trajectory of players, including her top scumread for the entire game, Hu Tao, never posting in the pages and including on the page she earned Ranger's vote.

This reads like low effort scum that is forced to performed Ranger's trick. She's barely tried to clear the bar, and I don't get the "wait and see what dave's role really was" comment is about if this was the role she had at the time.

The difference in effort and mentality between her and I make me more suspicious of her. Any towns should have been glad to have been given the treatment I was giving her to get her into the game, and instead I was getting fake paranoia, because Ranger likes to remember they can't TMI townies as scum. That isn't how a townie would have acted, though. I was holding off on this vote because it's clearly the tipping point BTW. I'm not surprised if we quickly enter night.

[Lycanfire]

In the pages leading up to and including on the page she earned Ranger's vote. ebwop.

[Lycanfire]

Bad feelings about Thomith-Gypyx being on Snow and nothing happening there. Keep that in mind if this game goes late.

Don't agree on randomnurse being scummy. See 549. They didn't agree with pushing NAS, and they caught them online and asked them to contribute. Townpost. They were actively offering alternatives and kneejerked hard to the NAS flashwagon. They didn't let that go for 100s of posts. Doesn't read as bullshit.

Geraint has shown good paranoia in this game. 379
wouldn't make good partners with scum!penguin 440
bad faith voting post 961

Spoiler: vote count at post

2.07

Votecount 2.07

Ranger (E-2): Hu Tao, Random Nurse, Thomith, PenguinPower, Gypyx
Naerys (2): Ranger, Titus
Titus (1): Naerys
Thomith (1): Snow2697

Not Voting (4): Oblivion, geraintm, KayJayQueue, Lycanfire

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to secure an execution.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2024-04-06 10:29:00).

Mod Notes: The combined mod ISO is here.

Ranger wagon at this point was lazy. We have a crossvote between Naerys and Titus, a vanity vote, and two people scumreading each other voting Naerys together.

[Lycanfire]

In a world where Hu and Ranger are town:

Ranger

(4): Random Nurse, Titus, Oblivion,

Lycanfire

Hu Tao

(3):

Ranger

, Naerys, PenguinPower
Snow2697 (2): Thomith, Gypyx
PenguinPower (2): KayJayQueue,

Hu Tao

Thomith (1): Snow2697

Not Voting (1): geraintm

This means I need to be wrong about: at least 2 of my 4 scum picks. There's 10 players with 4 scum in them in this scenario. For Snow to also be town, scum would be giving up the opportunity for the Ranger-Hu tension to remain unresolved. I don't see you and Gypyx being so obvious here.


I'm moving geraint up in my townreads from a harder to fake perspective. Snow's coming down. I like Snow, a lot. I've vibed with them the entire game. I don't like 944 because it's too happy to eliminate inside the hood. It's a pretty big net they cast between this post 936. 936 is an interesting post from a new player. If I were scum in the hood, I wouldn't give a shit about eliminating inside of it because I'd have a set number of townies in my mind I'd be willing to trade myself for. Did Snow come up with this on their own?

Luckily, Snow looks really good on a Ranger scumflip.

[Lycanfire]

VOTE: snow

Lego

[Lycanfire]

I dont know why i said snow was good with a ranger scumflip i think im confbiased into naerys being scum (she fits with ranger well) while snow fits poorly with her

[Lycanfire]

VOTE: snow

Lego

Why has Snow changed from your biggest townread to somebody you're willing to vote?

His d2 is pretty bad, especially eod where he is speculating on the kill.

[Lycanfire]

VOTE: snow

Lego

Why has Snow changed from your biggest townread to somebody you're willing to vote?

His d2 is pretty bad, especially eod where he is speculating on the kill.

[Lycanfire]

Unless the team is Titus, geraint and random nurse we have to pick out who is scum here.

I'd like to see people less willing to line up eliminations. It isn't very compelling at this stage.

[Lycanfire]

I have a feeling this neighbor v neighbor v neighbor is going to cripple us going forward. Because if we lim one today that flips town, there’s no stopping a tunnel on yet another one the next day. I think you guys might be right that the hood could have 2 scum but I worry we will get hung up on that and scum will use it as a distraction every day. I’m mostly apprehensive because currently I lean toward the Thom/Gypyx side being town (Thom mostly, Gypyx after) but what if we flip snow and even Titus and both are town? We’re so screwed because we’ll all be too paranoid NOT to flip the remaining hood.

I don't think the hood is very relevant right now. What's your take on what is going on in the thread?

[Lycanfire]

Yet another push on me. Makes no sense from town!players standpoint.

Initially I liked that you picked up on the interaction with Jackson, but whether Thomith was scheming or not I don't read his post as actively doing so. It was very LAMIST (look at me, i'm so town for the new people).

Is this the glue holding your read together for Thomith?

[Lycanfire]

Who is scum and why, Kay?

[Lycanfire]

Why is there PR hunting going on?

There isn't?

This is Snow's case

Thomith's post that I didn't like: 570

Snow's posts around this time 602 603

Nothing to do with Thomith and Jackson. It's very dry and mechanical, like his d2 has been (constantly grouping people which is giving more of the appearance of work). I don't like his fixation with the Jackson kill either.

[Lycanfire]

-One of {Titus, Snow, and to a lesser degree Gypyx}
-PenguinPower

Have they made bad posts?

[Lycanfire]

Kay, how many scum do you think are in this game?

Will post more later or if anyone catches me in the next 5 min, that's all I can be here for.

[Lycanfire]

Kay, how many scum do you think are in this game?

Will post more later or if anyone catches me in the next 5 min, that's all I can be here for.

At least 3, max of 4. I’ve only ever been in games with 2-3 so sometimes I forget that 4 is possible because it feels overpowered. At least, it feels that way for me.

Why are you asking me specifically? Am I wrong that 4 is a possibility?

These posts made me think you thought it there were 3 scum:

please note that I’m leaning toward the possibility of 2 scum in hood though I won’t die on that) the second scum lies in Gypyx/Thom

-One of {Titus, Snow, and to a lesser degree Gypyx}
-PenguinPower

Those are my strongest degree. My next tier up would be {gera, RN} and I’m conflicted because I don’t want to put you in that tier because of your D2 but I’m still a bit hung up on your slot from D1 and I think I’m second guessing myself too much to just ignore it. So you’d be 3rd in that tier, after RN. But I am not very confident on any of those 3 definitely being bad so my focus is on the 4 players I listed first.

It may seem hypocritical that I listed hood players first after complaining that we are tunneling as a town on the hood but we also can’t just ignore it. But if I were voting outside of hood today, it would currently be Penguin.

I think four scum is a good assumption.

[Lycanfire]

I have some time right now if you want to talk, Thomith.

[Lycanfire]

I'm interested in your idea of a bus vote. This has to be true if we assume Naerys and Snow are exclusive if either are scum. This only leaves Kay+Geraint+Naerys|Snow as a team otherwise.

[Lycanfire]

UNVOTE:

Going to let Oblivion direct my vote for awhile.

Looking at Kay and Titus for some content.

I'll be around.

[Lycanfire]

If there were 4 Scum it would make sense for them to try and convince the rest of Town there were only 3 Scum.

I'm not feeling manipulation from Gypyx here.

You'd be right, but she has argued against a mass claim today. I don't see the benefit here for a scum!gypyx at this time. It's too early for a consensus here to matter much.

[Lycanfire]

Did ya'll know that Titus is the queen of VCA?

E: fixed formatting

[Lycanfire]

You'd be right, but she has argued against a mass claim today. I don't see the benefit here for a scum!gypyx at this time. It's too early for a consensus here to matter much.

You´d be surprised, sometimes scum behaves more like town than townies themselves.

I'm not saying that Gypex is town. I'm saying that what she said wasn't scummy.

What I'm concerned with is having randomnurse be able to have better focus than I am with Gypyx's alignment.

[Lycanfire]

I appreciate that you've looked at VCA Naerys. Have you come across any bad posts?

[Lycanfire]

I'm interested in your idea of a bus vote. This has to be true if we assume Naerys and Snow are exclusive if either are scum. This only leaves Kay+Geraint+Naerys|Snow as a team otherwise.

Could you clarify what you're asking here please?

I believe at least one person hard pushing Ranger was probably bussing, because I believe that slot was kind of doomed already.

If you make a comment like this I expect you to feel invested in it, because otherwise all it does is create more elimination targets, which are not being pursued for unknown reasons.

[Lycanfire]

I'm not saying that Gypex is town. I'm saying that what she said wasn't scummy.

What I'm concerned with is having randomnurse be able to have better focus than I am with Gypyx's alignment.

What does that mean?

I'd rather not have the thread derailed into an argument being made on a flimsy premise. You can make whatever arguments you'd like, but I think pursuing the angle that Gypyx is scummy for proposing a 12:3 setup isn't going anywhere.

[Lycanfire]

Oh, so you'd rather deflect and not answer my question? You said you're concerned that I would have better focus than you regarding Gypyx's alignment. Now what the Hell does that mean?

Are you actively choosing to skip Naerys' post where she implies that Gypyx can be scum despite saying something not scummy? It was a fluffy post. The statement you're highlighting is illustrating that I wasn't saying "Gypex town" but instead "argument bad".

Move on

[Lycanfire]

Oh, so you'd rather deflect and not answer my question? You said you're concerned that I would have better focus than you regarding Gypyx's alignment. Now what the Hell does that mean?

Are you actively choosing to skip Naerys' post where she implies that Gypyx can be scum despite saying something not scummy? It was a fluffy post. The statement you're highlighting is illustrating that I wasn't saying "Gypex town" but instead "argument bad".

Move on

[Lycanfire]

Are you feeling better now Kay? Hoping to see the things your scumreads have said that tickle your brain. I'm having trouble seeing where you're coming from today.

[Lycanfire]

Oh, so you'd rather deflect and not answer my question? You said you're concerned that I would have better focus than you regarding Gypyx's alignment. Now what the Hell does that mean?

Are you actively choosing to skip Naerys' post where she implies that Gypyx can be scum despite saying something not scummy? It was a fluffy post. The statement you're highlighting is illustrating that I wasn't saying "Gypex town" but instead "argument bad".

Move on

I'm acknowledging that I've seen your other post by the way, I just want to be not busy/distracted before responding to it.

How did you feel about this post?

You'd be right, but she has argued against a mass claim today. I don't see the benefit here for a scum!gypyx at this time. It's too early for a consensus here to matter much.

You´d be surprised, sometimes scum behaves more like town than townies themselves.

I found it to be a dispassionate side snipe. It adds morale to an expanded cast of elimination targets, but does nothing to advance the game while seemingly missing the point to how I was interacting with randomnurse.

[Lycanfire]

The "consensus" being to a mass claim and "early" meaning the wrong day entirely. In case that post upset anyone.

[Lycanfire]

Didn't like the self vote at all.

[Lycanfire]

In your experience Snow, does this concept of "elim person A and if it doesn't work out, elim person B" thing ever happen?

[Lycanfire]

Honestly, I don’t even know anymore. I’m trying not to give up but I feel like I have no idea what’s happening and that all my reads are shit. I don’t think I’ve added one useful piece of information to this game at all. I think I bit off more than I could chew with a large size game and I hate that I’m making excuses instead of rereading and re-developing my reads. And I have no idea what to think now about this snow v gypyx stuff.

You have to start somewhere to get anywhere. You could look at players ISOs and tune into a quote exchange someone had and look further into the context, or base it around vote counts in the combined mod ISO. You could pick a page and just start reading.

If you don't have anything now, it doesn't mean you won't have scumreads you find acceptable later on. If you don't get to that point I can assure you that if you're town you're forfeiting your ability to think for yourself, and that's dangerous if you get led by scum. Similarly, you'll gain suspicion of your own for perceived coasting.

[Lycanfire]

In online mafia have not seen it before. But here there is merit IMO. You cannot do weird things on D1 ("I was busy"), self-proclaim townblock on D2 with a counterwagon against a town ("my vote was just parked on you") and then claim town leadership, attack my town slot without reasons and without responsibility.

"If we are wrong with Snow, we promise not to look into the hood". So, the town cannot look at you as scums? No, I will not allow you to have it this way.

Okay, that's a good point. You have reasons to scumread Gypyx, but is there anything that towntells her?

[Lycanfire]

i see a couple of you online but unfortunately it's 1:30AM for me.

[Lycanfire]

Town-Informed...

...Neighbors.

...

...

..

.

In normal guideline terms these are called homies

[Lycanfire]

long text

I was looking more towards Gypyx's dismissive attitude toward Ranger between posts 810-902.

[Lycanfire]

Oblivion where my homie at

[Lycanfire]

Gotta clown to put down

[Lycanfire]

the we being me / snow

Good catch. I was acting strange. There's a reason for that.

Do you feel like I haven't been involved, though?

[Lycanfire]

do you feel like you're able to explain that reason soon or not?

And well, to be more exact, it felt like you've taken more of a passive roles, kinda letting people act for you and all that jazz

I've had nothing mod confirmed to me but I felt like I had a reason to believe Snow is town today.

Whether I can explain or not, sure I could if pressed to do so.

[Lycanfire]

Hey im on my weekend and i can tell the game is getting spicy

I'll entertain you guys of pictures of the breakfast I'm taking my girlfriend and her grandma to

More time later on

[Lycanfire]

I'm in a Dutch restaurant in Canada, where the menu is in English, and this is the only item listed in French.

The server corrected me when I asked for Viennese Coffee, insisting it was Viennois Coffee.

Spoiler: img

[Lycanfire]

Any suspicion I have of Kay is absolved if the hood is pure

[Lycanfire]

I'm the main character

[Lycanfire]

i got bored when oblivion stopped posting

[Lycanfire]

Nah

[Lycanfire]

Don't waste your time. Titus doesn't give up Ranger D2 in any universe. She would have played the game. Snow's town too.

[Lycanfire]

Have you played with scum!Titus? Giving up a teammate like Ranger d2 doesn't happen. Also why 3 scum lol.

[Lycanfire]

[Lycanfire]

VOTE: Psyche

[Lycanfire]

mostly to annoy you

your d2 is really shitty focusing on gypyx and ignoring ranger. totally ignoring ranger. not even talking to her.

Hey, Gypyx, why do you think Jackson was killed?

random distraction to make snow fight thomith, probably sensing some morale to push thomith after my 1032. shame snow and i didn't see it the same way tho.

these three constantly pushing against the town, any vote here wins

[Lycanfire]

I was suspecting Kay today for the three scum posts because I thought it was TMI. Could have seen three groupscum and a traitor in the hood. Kept this to myself all day to not distract anyone. I think she's fine after being given loads of time to articulate herself.

[Lycanfire]

bro you know who i'm talking to. stop trying to get a reaction

[Lycanfire]

so desperate

[Lycanfire]

thomith never truly derailed ranger for snow. gypyx is town from d2 and if gypyx is town, thomith is town. i know this is necessary set up to escape poe but i don't think this endgame is happening for you

[Lycanfire]

i'm in anticipation of your read through of the game. let me know when you get to d2!

[Lycanfire]

basically a meaningless vote. why isn't it on psyche

[Lycanfire]

Although your shift in attitude I do find peculiar.

My aim of the game so far has been to make sure the town doesn't fight each other. Have and am doing a great job imo.

[Lycanfire]

psyche's read through seems fake. just trying to clear my slot from a vt claim feels like antispew. PP seemed demoralized and was shouting for a naerys lim. seems like bait

[Lycanfire]

vote me lol

[Lycanfire]

basically a meaningless vote. why isn't it on psyche

Also, FYI, vote's in general aren't meaningless. They say a LOT.

have you never read or don't care about oblivion's 1v1 with ranger d2? this is cherrypicking and there's no way your vote is best placed there as any alignment.

[Lycanfire]

random nurse you can't just go around claiming scum, it makes the game boring.

[Lycanfire]

his entire iso is townreading people for silly reasons and going hard on kay. you'd think he would have found someone other than limbait after 50 pages or whatever he read.

[Lycanfire]

VOTE: kjq

also, im kinda surprised gypyx still scumreads me!

all of the votes for me are quite mysterious. penguinpower must have been quite the rascal

the guilt of being scum here is mentally crushing psyche

[Lycanfire]

Does town lack power because there's only three scum? :^)

[Lycanfire]

i'll claim after u champ

[Lycanfire]

i mean, at some point in the future, probably. unless i get killed, then i'm just a liar.

[Lycanfire]

thonk

[Lycanfire]

HOMIES.

[Lycanfire]

VOTE: Psyche

[Lycanfire]

vote me lol

VOTE: Lycan
dont test me, my hands are itching for this

wait until you get a handful of psyche

[Lycanfire]

i remember ranger's promised thursday where she promised reads and never came back

[Lycanfire]

stalling

[Lycanfire]

fart

[Lycanfire]

can you at least make it look like i could be your partner when you go down or something

[Lycanfire]

I'll give you some options: you can towntell yourself if you're trying to convince me you're town
(Currently not doing well)

You could also vote me if this is directed to an audience and not me

You could self vote and mess with VCA

[Lycanfire]

Really missing the point! Let me speed you up some more VOTE: psyche

[Lycanfire]

f_nd sc_m

[Lycanfire]

Fund scam

This is good for bitcoin

[Lycanfire]

2% phone battery this is all you're getting right now

VOTE: geraintm

Looks low effort, can't seem to read my iso and says I jumped on Psyche early. Tries to group me with snow and thomith today has just been trying to start shit. Despite all this he's voting Psyche for not answering a question.

Slots always scum because it had an agenda.

[Lycanfire]

I don't understand the paranoia about the homies.

Thomith's crumb points to it and their behavior day 2 should clinch it.

Oblivion's town because of its 1v1 with Ranger yesterday. Go read the back and forth and tell me that's fake.

Also I was playing along because I thought my wagon was bait, but how am I scummy Gypyx?

[Lycanfire]

Oblivion please come back. Your plan isn't going through. Even if it was a good plan it runs into Snow's problem: nobody will listen to you after your dead.

[Lycanfire]

You're ebwop

[Lycanfire]

Just as weird as anyone scumreading me after I exposed:

1) Ranger's bad progression in reads
2) Ranger's scumread of Hu Tao despite Hu Tao not posting on that page or the three previous
3) How Ranger's "wait until you see what davesaz's role really was" along with the shitclaim.

Yet if you were off the wagon you are obviously town!

[Lycanfire]

It should be frustrating if you work against Gypyx/Thomith here. You won't get anywhere with them if you don't talk to them, Oblivion. Don't let a problem weigh you down when you can do something about it.

Naerys seems like elimination bait. Can you go more into your read on Kay?

[Lycanfire]

VOTE: Naerys

I'll take the bait.

[Lycanfire]

I know this won’t do me much good but I really think this is town!Naerys. So much of her frustration feels genuine and I’d be just as annoyed if I just got pushed out for being wrong (and I might be next, it seems). Maybe it’s because I’ve sort of been in the same boat as her much of the game, or at least adjacent, but I feel like I get where she’s coming from. She was wrong, but she wasn’t the only person who was wrong and it seems weird to not be considering anyone that was on the wagon to be bussing.

This would make a lot of sense

checks notes

You're voting Oblivion

[Lycanfire]

18 hours.

[Lycanfire]

I was fist pumping after the flip and felt good about the wagon yday. My certainty has dipped from the high, but we definitely want to eliminate off the wagon. Scums game here is to leave as many suspects open as possible to avoid PoE.

If there's a busser and we can identify them, that's great. Most likely the people that have consistently failed to consolidate are scum.

[Lycanfire]

I get that I went off the rails there for a bit, but I was getting bored and I think we got good info out of it.

[Lycanfire]

on mobile so i may be missing a post, but i'm not seeing an answer to the key question here:

why are scum more likely to be off the ranger wagon than bussing under the discussed timeframe?

or do you think this is not the key question?

The wagon was good.

fmpov-
myself, oblivion, thomith and gypyx are lock town. titus

should

be town because she isn't playing her scum meta at all.

that leaves randomnurse and yourself, and I liked penguin.

[Lycanfire]

I liked randomnurse too up until their argument with gypyx.

[Lycanfire]

Do you have a preference about eliminating on or off the wagon, Psyche?

[Lycanfire]

There's 16 hours left in the day. I hope your decision comes before then. Going all the way up to the deadline will only increase the chance of a bad elimination.

[Lycanfire]

Let's reinvigorate this game with a scum elim

The paranoia that someone is pulling a play on us is a distraction. It's far more likely that the scumteam had zero charisma d2. There's too many people worried about getting outplayed that we're ignoring bad slots.

[Lycanfire]

Lemme chainsaw oblivion harder

If we want to criticize it for not voting I gave it my vote and they disappeared for a couple days. I saw they were getting demoralized and wanted Oblivion back in the game. It didn't help but if they were scum
Oblivion could have easily gotten me onto Naerys right after the Snow wagon.

Demotivated scum have every incentive to use me to start drama and complicate the game, whereas demotivated town legit won't come back to the thread.

[Lycanfire]

Thomith, Gypyx. We need to consolidate. Who is it today?

[Lycanfire]

What's the point of playing scum if you don't try to look consistent? Meta matters to a point, but Naerys has been random, voting anyone besides scum. She gave into the RVS tell*. I don't like how she's so adamant about bussing. Ranger was salvageable if scum had charisma. Ranger didn't have back up, made a desperate claim and fucked off.

*my theory being whoever brings us out of RVS is likely scum. Sooner is more likely than later. Subject to scrutiny, but her page 2 comment about the speedwagon did not read as pure and it

did

start a fight.

[Lycanfire]

i see the post where you defended obsidian but this seems more like a defense against criticisms rather than a positive read that identifies parts of their play that are more likely to come from town than scum

Positive part of their play is that they fought scum and voted scum, and is probably still voting scum.

Yes, I want to remove unfair criticisms of its play because the deadline is close. If people want to eliminate Oblivion there should be sufficient numbers with homies+scum+1 other townie, but we need all hands on deck if its going to be neither Oblivion or Naerys.

[Lycanfire]

I'm caught up.

I feel like Naerys has been trying to actively spew thinking they're an inevitable elim. 628 they give a rule of 3, which would point to kay, but I don't think kay makes the next post as a partner. They do the same thing in 647 which could be all-town given the other post. They blank vote onto Hu in 880 which seems like an anti-spew attempt. In 931 she blank votes Titus after Titus votes her

[...]

[Lycanfire]

By antispew I'm meaning a shit push that doesn't spew someone as town, and is made in bad faith and attaches suspicion to the person involved

(In this case Hu Tao, who was town)

[Lycanfire]

Someone is defeatist. You have the human centipede townreading you and voting your counter wagon.

[Lycanfire]

Snows town can you better place your vote

[Lycanfire]

Snow and naerys and never scum together great vca vote tbh

[Lycanfire]

You havent said how Snow is scum afaik.

[Lycanfire]

1.04

Votecount 1.04

davesaz (3): Titus, Snow2697, geraintm
Little Will o' Wisp (2): Gypyx, JacksonVirgo
Snow2697 (1): PenguinPower
Titus (1): Naerys
Hu Tao (1): davesaz
JacksonVirgo (1): Thomith

Not Voting (6): Random Nurse, Oblivion, Hu Tao, NotAScum, KayJayQueue, Little Will o' Wisp

With 15 players alive, it takes 8 votes to secure an execution.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2024-03-25 12:26:37).

Mod Notes: Behold the mod magic that is deleting a filler post (~•~) to get the pagetop!

Titus snow and gera might be town

What happened

[Lycanfire]

Snow and naerys and never scum together great vca vote tbh

I dont see hiw snow is town

[Lycanfire]

You havent said how Snow is scum afaik.

[Lycanfire]

Ranger was dead in the water with the claim. I wasn't the only one that picked up on the inconsistency, but I unvoted and voted her Thursday PM when she never showed for her reads. I was pretty sure at the unvote, but I was milking it.

I also felt bad that I told her that I wouldn't eliminate her if she was town, so I did want her to explain herself.

[Lycanfire]

Naerys: I'm interested in hearing reads from you. If you're town I don't want you eliminated.

I appreciate that you've looked at VCA Naerys. Have you come across any bad posts?

I am defeatist cuz ppl like usual arent listening to me and are discrediting my opinions
No point of me trying really, but the self satisfaction after my flip will be real

I was trying but ppl kept throwing shits at me so i gave up

Wrong on both accounts. Do you want to eat humble pie and try or self vote again?

[Lycanfire]

This is its shocked face.

Wait until you realize what davesaz's role actually was.

They proceeded to claim something awful that didn't measure up to this comment

[Lycanfire]

Naerys self voted during Ranger's wagon :^)

[Lycanfire]

Whaddup gypyx

[Lycanfire]

I feel like the "no reason for snow to be town"... earlier this day giving a reason... and giving none for them being scum to be a major inconsistency

[Lycanfire]

You already know that Ranger is scum. Who is reacting to them? That's where any worthwhile read is at.

[Lycanfire]

Ranger's claim is so many levels of BS.

Does no one except it remember when Ranger bragged about how surprised it woupd be about her claim and then claimed the least surprising most obvious bait claim in the world that didn't match that tone at all?

[...]

Was reading to see who else found the inconsistency. Hoped for someone else so the town bin could get bigger

[Lycanfire]

Scum wouldnt try to save Ranger, they would bus her instead.

Nail scum to the wall and kill them. Please stop making open ended comments that widen the suspect pool. Narrow down on someone and go for it.

[Lycanfire]

If u TR gera and snow and SR me, who is the last scum then

...why are there 3 scum? Slip?

[Lycanfire]

I thought I caught an interaction that makes Kay-Naerys less likely, but yes she's also been widening the suspect pool, tried to start a lot of paranoia of the hood at SOD and has been giving gut reads opposed to pointing out bad posts.

I'm not good reading players like her, so I've pushed her for reads all day.

[Lycanfire]

Titus loves playing scum, has charisma and never buses.

The only way Titus works is if Ranger says to her "hey eliminate me" in scum pt and Titus proceeds to... not cash in on it besides sitting on the wagon

[Lycanfire]

Titus' activity here isn't AI. Would normally be.

[Lycanfire]

Randomnurse am I your elimination or Titus?

[Lycanfire]

10 hours

Your vote needs to be optimally placed here

[Lycanfire]

The whataboutism is getting old

[Lycanfire]

I could see scum team as NAS, keyjay, wisp

That’s a weird read

With how laid back Kay is I don't discount her being a viable partner with Naerys based off this comment

No idea how that made it into my notes

[Lycanfire]

...

How long have you been playing Mafia, Lycan?

This includes all your accounts.

My first mafia game was in '09 on a dead forum.

[Lycanfire]

[Lycanfire]

I've seen swindles, but I've seen plenty of scum eliminations averted due to meaningless paranoia. If you ever spectate a game you'll know that feeling well.

[Lycanfire]

is anyone able to walk me through the logic of why no lim is so bad?
am not sure how resistant i should be to the idea of a late counterwagon at this point

Day 4 could easily be day 3: pt2

It's a bad idea because there's nothing mechanically guaranteeing a pay off. We should have all the information we need to get a scum lim here.

[Lycanfire]

Depends if the result of no lim is itself a form of information or not

[Lycanfire]

We're at odds so for no lim to be +ev we need a save or block:

Day 4 11
Day 5 10
Day 6 8 melo?
Day 7 6 melo??

Or
Day 4 11
Day 5 9
Day 6 7 melo?
Day 7 5 melo??

[Lycanfire]

I guess in that sense, we should hammer anyone before deadline.

[Lycanfire]

UNVOTE:

Let's not actually do this lmao

i'm very much dissapointed in you Thomith

Trust me I'm disappointed in myself too lol.

Of course it would have been funny if this had actually gone through, but I got cold feet

With that being said, I do want to get some information out of Day 1 that a quick lim probably doesn't get us.

Naerys is probably right that there is a decent chance that the scum might have been hiding on the wagon as it was growing

Pretty early to decide to crumb this in the small chance you go through with a gambit.

It just doesn't make enough sense for me to waste brainpower on.

[Lycanfire]

I've never played with Naerys before.

[Lycanfire]

idk. their roles sort of imply that their power is wasted if one or the other flips.
they aren't regular masons where the flip of one implies the existence of the other.
breadcrumb has best odds of being picked up if it's in an early post.

My point being to assume Thomith/Gypyx are scum Thomith would have had to crumb on page2, when they may never go down that route of fake claiming.

[Lycanfire]

What does a scum!naerys look like and is it discernably different from her as town,

Has she suffered any painful scum losses recently?

Meta can only be so much of a shield.

Who is scum Psyche?

[Lycanfire]

He reacted pretty well early d3. D1 vca has him as town.

[Lycanfire]

We should eliminate anyone. I've said my piece and most of the playerlist is missing

In ascending order of last to recent posts:
Geraintm
Gypyx
Snow
Kay
Oblivion
Naerys
Randomnurse
Psyche
Myself

Have posted since april 16. We can maybe count on up to 9 people to show up. Not guaranteed. 6 to lim.

Some of these people will not self vote (presumably)
-oblivion
-naerys

So that's 7 active people for certain wagons. Ditto same if we do geraintm or kay.*

*none of this includes current voters you do the math from here im going to sleep soon

It's been long enough that some of these people could oopsie and either through accident or purpose not post before deadline.

From this perspective there's value in a Titus lim, but that's the only reason I can think of to lim her.

[Lycanfire]

It's 8 active people to count on, i accidentally'd an entire person on the list and didnt go back and change the number

[Lycanfire]

I mean you're probtown now you were just annoying the shit out of me with your certainty in reads without any scums.

[Lycanfire]

You still kinda are but I thought you progressed past that page 50 or wherever you said you last stopped days ago. If you didn't read from then on a lot of your behavior makes sense.

[Lycanfire]

Getting four hours of sleep

[Lycanfire]

Yes, it should have been a hammer

(6) Naerys - snow, oblivion, lycanfire, psyche, naerys, randomnurse

With 11 alive its 6 to eliminate

[Lycanfire]

With the time remaining this was a good elimination. I think Naerys has large scum equity and I've only felt my certainty increase all game.

Well, be wary of people pushing narratives, especially if they get more detailed over time. If things are scummy in isolation they don't need a giant overarching theory.

Scum choose who gets killed. Make your own moves to find scum rather than rely on their moves.

If you feel manipulated you probably are being manipulated

Etc etc last will business

[Lycanfire]

Let's hold off on the mass claim for a bit. We could be at melo, so it should be on the table.

Enchant's probably getting their feet wet into the game. Not sure how AI how they've done it is.

I think Normal Traitors existence need to be known to mafia. I always thought this was lame for this queue, because back on my homesite it was a thing to buddy scummy people hard and see if they would turn on a dime of shitty reasoning believing they were working with a traitor.

Seems like a waste of energy to make this bait

[Lycanfire]

Naerys' desired reaction: I don't feel bad about limming you. You played inconsistently, made too many susses and ultimately harmed the town through play. You were indisquishable from scum. I won't call you a bad player because I've made all those mistakes as well in the past.

I'll bend for you but I won't break. You'll need to go into some more details at times, be more focused and try to towntell. I'll try to pick up on those tells and sort them from you doing what you do. Meet me somewhere in the middle and I hope to play with you again.

That said I'll review your susses.

[Lycanfire]

to be at MeLo this game would need to have 5 scum

I took my medication after work yesterday which gave me crazy energy into the night. I just woke up from being comatose so the brain aint working good

[Lycanfire]

I'm not pro mass claim but I think we should if we out a ""PR"". In my experience, popcorn tends to be the best way to go. Just be really aggressive with people and make them feel like holding up the process is the scumminess thing you could do.

[Lycanfire]

I did some thinking and I support a mass claim.

Oblivion doesn't seem like the best starting point to me, but it probably does not change much.

[Lycanfire]

If we go this route I would prefer popcorn where the claimer chooses the next person to go

[Lycanfire]

I did some thinking and I support a mass claim.

Oblivion doesn't seem like the best starting point to me, but it probably does not change much.

Who would you prefer start?

Enchant for sure just because we can leverage pressure over potential repscum. If they're town there is little drawback.

Geraint seems like the best choice to me

[Lycanfire]

That's fine. If Gypyx or Thomith can confirm that took place outside a traitor claim I'll move this on.

[Lycanfire]

Were you spectating the game before replacement?

[Lycanfire]

How much of the game have you read?

[Lycanfire]

Gypyx?

[Lycanfire]

Did Enchant claim?

[Lycanfire]

It's actually better if they keep it in the hood if they can be serious about it

I don't mind going first either, but I want clarity about what is going on.

[Lycanfire]

I'll let you choose who goes first, but I think it's actually always best that Enchant claims in the hood before anyone else. I didn't think about that until Enchant mentioned the possibility, because apparently I am a dumb.

[Lycanfire]

Relevant avi

[Lycanfire]

Enchant should be familiar with Normal Guidelines right?

[Lycanfire]

Elaborate on what you're thinking?

Whether they could actually think they're doing anything useful.

I'm trying to think of why they'd do this.

1a)town, knows about the guidelines. waste of time.
1b)town, doesn't know about the guidelines. maybe useful.
2a)scum, knows about the guidelines. full on refuge in audacity.
2b)scum, doesn't know about the guidelines. either 2a or pretending to be 1b.

[Lycanfire]

Odds of Enchant lolcatting because the scum PT is filled with posts such as "we need a mislim on gypyx or thomith OR we always take them to melo"? I can see this reveal or at least bothering the two of you in private to be an avenue to build suspicion.

Which would be a terrible use of the slot. Reeks of desperation and someone that would have only read the scum PT but not the game thread.

[Lycanfire]

I imagine that Gypyx would only choose you to go if she couldn't trust that Enchant could be serious in the hood. They will be a real drag on getting this done.

It would be nice if you didn't wait very long after any claim to choose the next person.

[Lycanfire]

You could choose enchant and demand they claim in the thread. Otherwise we could get a delay where enchant insists they did so only for the homies to say no.

[Lycanfire]

Insists they did so (in the hood)

[Lycanfire]

The optimal person you want to choose is scum because it locks them into their claim. That way they can't go "aha! I counterclaim that exact same role"