Large Normal 247 - Postgame

Lycanfire · Fri Apr 19, 2024 11:55 pm

If you all think Enchant could be serious that is preferable

Lycanfire · Fri Apr 19, 2024 11:56 pm

That's fine. We can eliminate them if that's the case.

Lycanfire · Sat Apr 20, 2024 6:15 am

It could have also been because it was 3am

Your play feels lazy and you're relying on a gotcha. Put the work in, Enchant, and claim please.

Lycanfire · Sat Apr 20, 2024 7:05 am

VOTE: Enchant

Lycanfire · Sat Apr 20, 2024 7:07 am

Claim properly to your neighbours. They're almost certainly town by role, Thomith's crumb, and by play.

Lycanfire · Sat Apr 20, 2024 9:09 pm

We need to speed this up.

Lycanfire · Sat Apr 20, 2024 9:26 pm

We should still go through everyone. VT. Oblivion is next.

Lycanfire · Sat Apr 20, 2024 10:16 pm

Kay's claimed VT. I think the viable choices are {random_nurse, thomith, gypyx}, though they have all claimed something previously.

Lycanfire · Sat Apr 20, 2024 10:42 pm

Okay. She claimed during the popcorn phase. The others didn't.

Can you claim again Kay?

Lycanfire · Sat Apr 20, 2024 10:44 pm

Gypyx told Kay to start, she claimed VT and popcorned to Enchant.

In post 2594, KayJayQueue wrote:
In post 2592, Gypyx wrote: it's how popcorn works yeah
I just meant I don’t know if there’s a specific person that would be best to have claim after me.

I’m just a VT.

So is asking Enchant to claim pointless then? I should pick someone else?

Lycanfire · Sat Apr 20, 2024 10:53 pm

Ah, I can feel it in my knee. Storms a comin'. Random nurse will be here any moment to shit post about the word mason.

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 21, 2024 1:24 am

Random Nurse - VT
Gypyx - Informed Neighbour
Oblivion - VT
Naerys - VT
Hu Tao - VT
Snow2697 - Vengeful Neighbour
geraintm - VT
NotAScum - VT
KayJayQueue - VT
JacksonVirgo - VT
Enchant - Neighbour
Psyche - VT
Thomith - Informed Neighbour
Ranger - Mafia Neighbour
Lycanfire - VT

Spoiler: 3groupscum deleting VTs

Spoiler: 4groupscum deleting VTs

Opinion on informed neighbours:
+clears like masons
+potential for forced kills takes away scum's ability to kill whoever they want
-cannot privately coordinate without distracting town

Opinion on Vengeful Neighbour:
+swing
+++town in melo
+/-functions as double day and sets to even numbers

Opinion on Neighbour:
+named townie
+/- potential to confuse both teams

Opinion on Scum Neighbour:
+ability to gain information for team
+ability to influence vengeful neighbour and direct swing against town
++swing

Opinion on scum:
+first 1-2 kills not forced
+rewarded for solving game

I'm not sure this passes at 12:3 because you would want some ability for a clear to have the potential to reach late game. There's nothing stopping scum from rolling through. I'll take a look at some recently completed games.

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 21, 2024 1:25 am

Meant to say passes at 11:4

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 21, 2024 2:10 am

large normal 245:
11:4
traitor in hood/mafia

major spr in traitor, gated jailkeeper for scums.
town has 6 prs. vigilante in this game also functioned as a vanilla cop oddly enough with complex modifier. gunsmith could get guilties on the town cop and vig.
somehow scum won this, but scum also had boon and titus.

had less time than i thought this morning

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 21, 2024 5:26 am

In post 2656, Psyche wrote: it's actually really useful for weighing possibilities like gypyx/thomith being in a team with ranger

This take is awful?

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 21, 2024 5:28 am

In post 2664, geraintm wrote:Lycan was against the massclaim for a while before coming around - was this due to chat in the scrum thread?

Gypyx made me think of how much power town has when she said we had a flipped pr and should mass claim. At that point, I had done some thinking (my setup speculation) already, but I didn't want to give it away. I did anticipate another tpr and I assumed another scum pr to balance. Now I'm weighing what the NRG would think.

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 21, 2024 1:10 pm

In post 2578, Lycanfire wrote: Odds of Enchant lolcatting because the scum PT is filled with posts such as "we need a mislim on gypyx or thomith OR we always take them to melo"? I can see this reveal or at least bothering the two of you in private to be an avenue to build suspicion.

Which would be a terrible use of the slot. Reeks of desperation and someone that would have only read the scum PT but not the game thread.

Very relevant

This looks like a hail mary play

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 21, 2024 1:15 pm

In post 2676, Psyche wrote:
In post 2665, Lycanfire wrote:
In post 2656, Psyche wrote: it's actually really useful for weighing possibilities like gypyx/thomith being in a team with ranger
This take is awful?
what am i missing?
how is it so awful?

Our game is 10 vt, vengeful, ~~~neighbour~~~, triple scum neighbour?

This has an overly optimistic view of neighbours being protown and in this setup there's a great chance of pocketing the vengeful neighbour and using it against town. Even with that optimism the setup seems busted to me. It relies on fog of war to stop scum from freely killing whoever they heck they want.

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 21, 2024 1:16 pm

Why is random nurse fine

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 21, 2024 1:19 pm

Is this svs

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 21, 2024 1:22 pm

The hair trigger kneejerk from random nurse is interesting

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 21, 2024 1:24 pm

In post 2082, Random Nurse wrote: VOTE: Unvote

Thonk

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 21, 2024 1:29 pm

Bye guys cant wait to see the same shit on a different page

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 21, 2024 1:46 pm

I expect more random paranoia about the homies. Already called Enchant being an angle.

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 21, 2024 7:35 pm

Gonna take continued lack of content / reading the game as a scumclaim to reduce info.

Way to torpedo a good slot.

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 21, 2024 7:36 pm

I think Psyche is very likely town but I was bothered by the fight I had with random nurse yesterday right after I followed his vote onto Psyche. See the immediate unvote that I quoted above.

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 21, 2024 7:43 pm

We can only call Titus so townie before we need Enchant to act like it.

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 21, 2024 7:44 pm

I think by common view you mean yourself and I clogging up the thread in the last 12 hours before deadline.

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 21, 2024 7:48 pm

Snow liked Titus

Can't see geraint's opinion on Titus. Doesn't have one it seems.

Think the homies, Kay, and definitely random nurse didn't like her. Neither did Naerys. Oblivion thought there was a bus on Ranger, but no read on Titus.

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 21, 2024 7:59 pm

That's a couple pages in between. I'll see where the elim morale was at.

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 21, 2024 8:01 pm

I think scum Titus would do whatever it takes to contort her way into saving her teammate, but wouldn't be averse to a half assed attempt to distance along the way.

The problem is that she did more to push Ranger than to push off.

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 21, 2024 8:14 pm

I wasn't a fan of how geraint randomly came into the thread yesterday and declared there was this important decision to make between Psyche and myself, and hinted twice that Psyche was imminently getting eliminated. Basic facts about Psyche v me were wrong. Lazyscum may have detected that the thread's intensity went up, and a lot of it is because we hit a slow patch and I went aggro to advance the game.

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 21, 2024 8:16 pm

I guess there was that brief moment where I was pushing Psyche every minute where people could have dogpiled him, but reactions in the thread at the time were more negative towards me. In real time I wanted to see Psyche give a scumread after reading 50 pages, and was pushing for elimination because I wasn't getting it.

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 21, 2024 8:18 pm

It's pretty well known that I'm in PST and I've made several references to being up late in this game. If I were scum there would be more evidence than a gotcha. Where there's smoke there's fire y'know.

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 21, 2024 8:19 pm

They're so lazy though

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 21, 2024 8:21 pm

I think I've played with them on this account and on an alt and both times they were pretty lolcatty

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 21, 2024 8:22 pm

When you scumhunt, do you make use of slips?

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 21, 2024 8:31 pm

You just sound butthurt that I pushed you yesterday

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 21, 2024 8:35 pm

do the several pages of combing through the thread eod3 look like theatre then, random nurse?

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 21, 2024 8:55 pm

I feel like Titus peeled off of Ranger before everyone else did, Penguin Power/Thomith left right after, she came back before both as we already know. Thomith was being convinced to go for Snow, which Titus was trying to get support for, but two hours after Thomith's vote she goes to Ranger.

(granted ranger dropped a lot of shitty reads since titus' post before the revote)

Lycanfire · Mon Apr 22, 2024 10:36 am

I'm in a bit of a crunch at work-
Psyche, how do you feel about Gypyx-Ranger interactions between roughly 900-1000?

Lycanfire · Mon Apr 22, 2024 10:39 am

I stan for gypyx

Lycanfire · Mon Apr 22, 2024 4:00 pm

In post 2777, Enchant wrote:
In post 2772, Random Nurse wrote:
In post 2748, Enchant wrote:
In post 2747, Psyche wrote: um enchant could you just like read the thread and tell us who you think is scum pretty please
LYCAN LITERALLY SCUMSLIPPED FFSSF

Quote it?

In post 2605, Enchant wrote:
In post 2577, Lycanfire wrote:
In post 2567, Gypyx wrote: Elaborate on what you're thinking?
Whether they could actually think they're doing anything useful.

I'm trying to think of why they'd do this.

1a)town, knows about the guidelines. waste of time.
1b)town, doesn't know about the guidelines. maybe useful.

^Vote this asap.

There's no difference in usefulness if i know deadlines or not and i do know deadlines.

But Lycan blatantly slips that mafia doesn't have traitor (and therefore INFORMED if they know or not), so from this point for Lycan "claiming traitor" is nonsense, because "mafia obviously know that Enchant is not traitor to they informed there's none"

If you have no clue what, tldr: Lycan knows too much.

If mafia knows there's no Traitor then indeed it's useless. BUT NO ONE BUT MAFIA SHOULD KNOW THAT.

Also i am not scared, you are bad at tyranny.

In post 2795, Enchant wrote:
In post 2794, Gypyx wrote: not saying they're scum just like, the sus isn't too warranted

also enchant latching so hard onto Lycan's perceived "slip" gives me big scum vibes
I just remind that next day is elo and RM (who probably just town) hates your guts.

So i suggest you to VERY CAREFULLY pick alies this game day.

roflmao

Lycanfire · Mon Apr 22, 2024 4:02 pm

I have more thoughts on the game I was just second guessing how useful my vote is on Enchant right now. I'll share more later.

Lycanfire · Tue Apr 23, 2024 8:38 am

Point was that gypyx was on ranger and was dismissive toward anything she said. If you were going to bus you'd want something out of it. If you weren't going to bus, you need to be on the same with your partner somehow to get them out of a sticky situation.

Lycanfire · Tue Apr 23, 2024 8:39 am

Random nurse, thoughts on geraintm? You mentioned being wary of their lack of presence. They've been here lately. Based off what they are giving us do you have an opinion on this slot?

Lycanfire · Tue Apr 23, 2024 8:03 pm

In post 2787, geraintm wrote:
In post 2683, Lycanfire wrote: Why is random nurse fine
to me, their push on ranger on day 2 just doesn't feel like something scum would do. if they are scum, then this is the sort of thing that beats me in a game and i hold my hands up to it.

Hey can you show me what push they made? I'm having trouble finding it.

Lycanfire · Tue Apr 23, 2024 8:04 pm

Yes this is why I've done literally nothing for a day out of the chance random nurse came in and called bullshit on their own.

Lycanfire · Tue Apr 23, 2024 8:10 pm

My votes on Enchant in spirit until they show they're reading the game

VOTE: geraintm

Lycanfire · Wed Apr 24, 2024 2:55 am

If you look at his posts they is doing very little to push Ranger, especially after replacement.

How do you feel about how they interacted with the only flipped scum?

Lycanfire · Wed Apr 24, 2024 3:20 am

My vote is also on random nurse in spirit

Lycanfire · Wed Apr 24, 2024 3:23 am

For someone with so much paranoia you sure don't give a fuck right now

You spent the entire d2 pushing people that weren't Ranger with your vote on her

LOL

Lycanfire · Wed Apr 24, 2024 9:52 am

I feel like there's potential for a bias if one person has interactions with someone and somebody doesn't have any at all.

Have you looked at this angle?

Lycanfire · Wed Apr 24, 2024 10:06 am

I don't have a clear sus on that. I'll give the entire game a reread.

Lycanfire · Thu Apr 25, 2024 9:45 pm

I think for me to get anywhere on KJQ I'd have to read a scumgame of hers. I don't feel like there's anything concrete about her play here.

Still rereading the game.

Lycanfire · Thu Apr 25, 2024 10:19 pm

Would appreciate it if people put votes or foses down

Dont care about cases your gut will do

Lycanfire · Thu Apr 25, 2024 10:21 pm

Titus may have townslipped by not knowing which slot Ranger subbed into at one point

Lycanfire · Thu Apr 25, 2024 10:39 pm

Always knew you didn't have the guts

Lycanfire · Thu Apr 25, 2024 10:45 pm

Found another (very obviously) fake Ranger read. Going to see if it's a one off. Would imply a partner, because Hu Tao rocketed to the bottom of her list despite no posts out of survival.

Lycanfire · Thu Apr 25, 2024 11:27 pm

man scrutinizing every ranger tierlist is exhausting

Lycanfire · Fri Apr 26, 2024 12:08 am

I feel like Kay-Dave and Kay-Ranger interactions are worth a reread for you.

I need to go to sleep. I haven't gotten to the read that pinged me and prompted me to go through all of Ranger's posts but here's about 19-20 tierlists analyzed.

Spoiler: lists

Lycanfire · Fri Apr 26, 2024 5:34 am

Frankly after seeing how penguin treated ranger immediately upon replace (at this point I had just replaced in and was reading at two different starting points making it seem much more distant) I can't see this as a bus. I'd also be pretty upset if I jammed for hours with scum at the end of day 3 before deadline.

Lycanfire · Fri Apr 26, 2024 5:42 am

I felt similarly as demotivated as oblivion yesterday when Gypyx-Thomith took over the game. I tried to get Oblivion back in for a couple reasons- for starters they were my biggest townread, it worked before when I talked it and Ranger from deathspiraling the same argument, and - I don't know why nobody has cared about this so far - but my reason for abruptly jumping off Snow was because I thought Oblivion had an innocent on them.
(They used much stronger language than if they had a guilty on Naerys.)

Back to my point on their d3, scum should have been feeling giddy that I said I'd give them my vote. Absences happen, but after I started making waves that would have been a great opportunity to use me as an instrument of chaos. Oblivion continued popping by every few days to say naerys should die.

Lycanfire · Fri Apr 26, 2024 5:51 am

I think after I reversed my read on your slot and took away a non-Ranger voter out of contention (snow) I was feeling high like I did at the start of d3. For what it's worth I still think the game is as simple as it was yesterday-

Naerys is bait and without a mass claim I still thought this was 11:4, so if I scratch your name off my list from yesterday and leave random nurse+geraint I think we had it.

Lycanfire · Fri Apr 26, 2024 5:52 am

Im on mobile but it should be obvious that the fake read I found was in geraint - iirc ranger p27 tierlist

Lycanfire · Fri Apr 26, 2024 5:53 am

In addition to the whack movement in my 1-15 (33,34,36,42) analysis.

Lycanfire · Fri Apr 26, 2024 7:23 am

Busy helping girlfriend's brother move

16-24

Spoiler: analysis

Lycanfire · Fri Apr 26, 2024 8:48 am

Thoughts on the frustration of having no night actions? I never once felt this way.

Dissonance between admitting not having reads and claiming they want to draw a night kill is present. Why would anyone kill a slot that had a poe of more than half the players left. You'll live, and I don't think its from a lack of conviction.

Lycanfire · Fri Apr 26, 2024 8:51 am

In post 176, Random Nurse wrote: I'm starting to think Hu is trying to mock the fact that I primarily play this game based on gut feelings.

Came across this last night

Lycanfire · Fri Apr 26, 2024 9:41 am

I wasn't feeling very happy with the game state for a few days but the reread has helped. Lots of dave and ranger interactions. I'll score their interactions and one sided ones when I get home.

Lycanfire · Fri Apr 26, 2024 9:45 am

If anyone else wants to look that would be great. Cmon, we have flipped scum. We should be feeling good.

Lycanfire · Fri Apr 26, 2024 9:51 am

In post 3060, Lycanfire wrote: Thoughts on the frustration of having no night actions? I never once felt this way.

Like to get peoples takes on this.

Lycanfire · Fri Apr 26, 2024 10:09 am

In post 3069, Enchant wrote: I find setup pretty boring.

... Which shouldn't be case in Complex.

Noted. Thoughts on current topics?

Lycanfire · Fri Apr 26, 2024 10:21 am

Do you feel like, "feeling infuriated by the lack of night actions" is a real emotion a townie could have here, or is this fake?

Lycanfire · Fri Apr 26, 2024 10:37 am

Pretty strong word choice

t is just infuriating that in this game, there is no info coming through. set up appears to have town having zero night actions!

To be consumed with fury?

Mhsmith got me on faking anger before as scum.

More opinions please.

Lycanfire · Fri Apr 26, 2024 12:57 pm

In post 3079, geraintm wrote:
In post 3075, Lycanfire wrote: Pretty strong word choice

t is just infuriating that in this game, there is no info coming through. set up appears to have town having zero night actions!
To be consumed with fury?

Mhsmith got me on faking anger before as scum.

More opinions please.
What is wrong with the word infuriating?
.it is much easier to catch scum if you know...we can actually catch them. I still think the 1st scum was caught through luck, and if we hadn't then we would be sitting here with no agency to the game at all.

The problem I have with the word infuriating is that I never once had a negative feeling about our lack of PR. I speculated we had one and specced 11:4 based on it.

If anything

I feel positively about it. There's no nonsense or drama and I feel like we can proceed with a 12:3 theory without worrying as much about a traitor or PR claim. This clarity today has been

huge

for us and now let's us look at pairs and how they intersect with Ranger rather than a potential web of disinformation.

And IMO, it makes it less likely that scum would bus. Ranger was very recoverable before they shit out more bad reads, made a bad claim that contradicted earlier hint of major PR (or fucky mechanics).

Your inability to line up with how I feel makes me think this is fake anger.

Anyone else think they could have expressed themselves the way geraint did?

Lycanfire · Fri Apr 26, 2024 2:56 pm

You gotta shoot your shot

Lycanfire · Sat Apr 27, 2024 7:25 am

25-32

In hindsight, the fake read on 27 is less remarkable with snow being faked on the same page. Still, I'm glad I did this. I think Kay is locktown from interactions at this point and she was a question mark for me.

Spoiler: analysis

Where would Ranger put her teammates?

Spoiler: from the beginning

Lycanfire · Sat Apr 27, 2024 7:34 am

vote count @ ranger's replace in (32)

Ranger (E-2):

Hu Tao

, Random Nurse,

Thomith

, PenguinPower,

Gypyx

Naerys

(1): Little Will o' Wisp
Random Nurse (1):

Naerys

Not Voting (5): Oblivion,

Snow2697

, geraintm, KayJayQueue, Titus, Ranger

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to secure an execution.

vote count at last reads list

Ranger (4):

Hu Tao

, Random Nurse,

Thomith

,

Gypyx

Naerys

(2): PenguinPower,

Naerys

Hu Tao

(2): Lycanfire, Ranger

Thomith

(1):

Snow2697

(1): Titus

Not Voting (3): Oblivion, geraintm, KayJayQueue

Had less time than I thought. Will look at more votes and the interactions later.

Lycanfire · Sat Apr 27, 2024 2:11 pm

31 hours to deadline

Lycanfire · Sat Apr 27, 2024 4:14 pm

In post 3093, KayJayQueue wrote:
In post 3092, Lycanfire wrote: 31 hours to deadline
I never would’ve believed this if you told me day 1, but I think you’re one of my strongest townreads now lol

What do you think is the best course of action at this point? I feel like if you, Gypyx and Thom are all on the same page, I’ll feel really good about our decision. If not, I’ll have to see what feels best.

There's two ways forward
1) we find scum
2) we can agree to townread 7 people and do this coalition style.

There's problems with option 2. For starters, we need very good reasons to believe each person is town. It can't just be a feeling. Each person needs to have been decided through setup and play to be unlikely to be scum. The other problem is that if we can decide on 7 towns, that means we should know who is scum, and we should be able to then pick them apart. This should bring us back to path #1.

Lycanfire · Sat Apr 27, 2024 4:21 pm

In post 3096, Random Nurse wrote: This game kind of pisses me off.

USUALLY I can kind of sense who the Scums are, and I slowly start homing in on them. This go around I'm still not catching any slight signals. Usually there's a trace tell that catches my gut radar, but my gut just isn't catching anything. Still wouldn't surprise me if Thomith/Gypyx were Mafia Neighbors like Ranger, but no one wants to pull on that thread. Excluding those two I can't really sense who the Scum are, so they're playing much better than the usual Scum I've caught.

Interesting word choice.

Random nurse, if you're town you need to get with the program. If you can't find scum, find towns. Put in some work and stop having a large poe.

This is only anti-town. A large poe is exacty what scum need to win. We can't bring you to melo, because if you aren't scum you sure aren't getting killed either. Out of all the players in this game you've cast the largest net.

Lycanfire · Sat Apr 27, 2024 5:18 pm

I think Gypex and Thomith are town through setup.

I think we're in a complex because the game revolves around the neighbourhood. We're boned if TPRs get pocketed.

Paranoia

and WIFOM are why we're in a complex.

Or there's an unannounced serial killer holstering. I always thought serial killers were compulsive, but there's nothing that actually says that in the ruleset it seems.

Lycanfire · Sat Apr 27, 2024 9:57 pm

Finished work at 1:30am. I'll be home soon and can discuss.

Lycanfire · Sat Apr 27, 2024 10:31 pm

Enchant / Titus

A lot of this comes down to:
1) Would Titus bus? If she did, she would try to get anything out of it. Ranger would have to be cool with it, and Ranger efforted. It seems to me that Titus made NO effort to save Ranger and there was no agreed upon bus (which would be required for Titus to bus Ranger)
2) Where would Ranger put her teammates? I feel like Ranger was trying to appease people on her wagon, and Titus was one of them. Titus went from 100% top tier, only person Ranger was sure of to second last. This is something I noted with myself ("Lycan is good at scum") and how Ranger was treating Kay. This is called negging. You could do this to a scum partner, but I see Ranger as wanting results from the practice. It backfired with me, because I remembered her doing the exact same fake paranoia in a past game with me.
3) The dis-associative I found:

In post 874, Titus wrote: I haven't changed my mind but I am wanting to give Ranger a chance if wrong. Dave Snow works for me.

It isn't much, but it's something.

Lycanfire · Sat Apr 27, 2024 10:55 pm

I don't think Ranger was doomed. I've been in worse situations as scum:

myself LN218 scum pt wrote:Town's hurting themselves by not resolving any of the problems present. Why would we give them a scum l***h when they all blundered into an L-1 wagon? They don't deserve it. Fuck them.

Titus would have loved the challenge?

Lycanfire · Sat Apr 27, 2024 11:36 pm

I think random nurse is a more likely bus vote. His only worthwhile contribution is a vote, which reads like scaredscum assuming there's a guilty on his partner. They townslip not knowing who Ranger replaced, but it seems more aware than Titus imo.

In post 640, Random Nurse wrote: OK.

VOTE: Dave

In post 1094, Random Nurse wrote:
In post 1039, Hu Tao wrote:
In post 1012, Naerys wrote: VOTE: Naerys
can u just vote me out i dont wanna read Rangers posts anymore
Can you just vote ranger

I suspect there's a very specific reason why you want us to vote Ranger?

If Ranger turns out to be Town I'll be coming for you.

VOTE: Ranger

In post 1095, Random Nurse wrote: Fuck.

I'm already voting them.

(That's how fucked this IRL week has been.)

They spent the entirety of day 2 arguing with Gypyx.

In post 1237, Random Nurse wrote:
In post 1234, Gypyx wrote:
In post 1232, Random Nurse wrote:
In post 1230, Gypyx wrote: Yes but it's highly, HIGHLY, HIIIIIIIIIGHLY unrealistic of you to base your expectations around that

Is that my expectation?

...or are you just reacting a tad bit defensively?
What i'm saying is that maybe it's possible but if you don't have anything that points to that then holy shit you're making the most unlikely possibilities first

...

Interesting.

So, why exactly are you not voting Thomith?

Is he completely off the table for you today?

Could be a slip from the scum PT that they were (presumably) acting strangely in the hood and was rolefishing.

In post 1258, Random Nurse wrote: Hey, Gypyx, why do you think Jackson was killed?

Distraction/scumangle.

In post 1328, Random Nurse wrote: I have the sneaking suspicion that should Ranger flip Town I'll be the convenient scapegoat.

does fuck all to push ranger. this post looks fake.

Did nothing to interact with Ranger. Asked them for reads one time. It's Ranger you don't have to ask.

In post 459, Random Nurse wrote:
In post 392, Hu Tao wrote:
In post 390, PenguinPower wrote: why do you suspect dave
Meta. He seems off this game.

As is that's not that convincing.

Could you be a bit more specific please?

sure they questioned the NAS wagon repeatedly and this could have had morale collapse onto Dave. IMO, Dave was worth elimination and random nurse stood to benefit.

Lycanfire · Sat Apr 27, 2024 11:40 pm

In post 3140, Psyche wrote: can we change topics?
why do you think geraintm is scum?
i'll assume it's not because my case on him is so good

non-ranger voter. no charisma. checks the box of teammate that didn't save ranger when ranger wanted to live. attitude seems fakeable, poe is way too large. went contrarian on our asses yesterday in the same vein as random nurse. didn't like how he made you v me yesterday a binary foregone conclusion. I think ranger could have tried to fake sort him better, but she obviously didn't care because they were partners. he also randomly shifted multiple spots for no reason at all in her tierlists.

Lycanfire · Sat Apr 27, 2024 11:41 pm

In post 1479, geraintm wrote: ok, a little catching up to do.

start here

In post 1408, Thomith wrote: VOTE: Snow
this vote, combined with them jumping on late yesterday raises concerns. if there was a bus then this is where i think it was, following up with trying to direct day 3 so obviously.

post 1412 is almost like they have set up snow for a while to take the fall today. lycan has also been setting snow up.

(i kinda want to flip snow because it gives so much info about people)

Snow's entry is very defensive.

In post 1428, Thomith wrote:
FWIW this is where I think I am right now:

Lycanfire
Snow2697
[/b]
this is so weird, these 3 are locked in a weird death spiral with each other. strongly think there is at least 1 scum in there. just doesn't make sense otherwise, feels like someone has been caught and scum is lashing out in the group

In post 1432, Oblivion wrote: It will only kill Naerys today.
why?

In post 1434, Snow2697 wrote:
If not the hood, an option can be to look at Naerys-geraintm (both did not vote scum!Dave, but voted town!NAS) and also at Wisp-Naerys conflict dating back to D1 (Wisp looks more town due to his vote into Ranger on D2).
Penguin voted scum!Ranger, so some details on why he is scum might be helpful.
you do know day 1 i will just vote the biggest thread?
yesterday i had no strong view on who was scum or not, certainly i had nothing to indicate Ranger was scum, hence my not voting.

In post 1437, Thomith wrote:

If I was scum why would I swing the momentum back to execute Ranger when it seemed that momentum may have begun picking up elsewhere?
what momentum elsewhere? it was clear Ranger was going yesterday from early on, there was at least 1 scum on their wagon if not both.

In post 1443, Oblivion wrote: It is considering a Mass Claim at this point. We have had 2 nights of actions, it wonders if a third benefits us over forcing claims.

It would like to do this in a Popcorn styling.
i think i am in favour of this, feels like some good claims will trap scum with nowhere else to go. ranger already got done with a bad claim so i dont think scum are good at coming up with good claims between them

In post 1444, Thomith wrote:
In post 1442, Oblivion wrote: We will see. It is most amused you believe you get to dictate today.

Snow is off the table.
I'm not stating I get to dictate the day. In fact I said I'm willing to go outside the hood because I may be tunnelled, I'm just voting my biggest scumread right now.
your snap vote post 1 today certainly gave the mpression you wanted to

i think though VOTE: naerys. the way they jumped off Ranger straight after the claim and gave the impression they did not want to go in thehood. also things like this
In post 269, Naerys wrote:
In post 265, Thomith wrote: Any further thoughts on this yet?
Not fond of the way Titus and gera switched to dave tbh
also kinda dont like Penguin´s position on Wisp, but also i dont like Wisp himself and the way he "suspects" me

On the other side i think dave could be town, he doesnt really feel different from his previous towny games. So i think looking into those, who think dave could be scum is warranted

this post is poo

Lycanfire · Sat Apr 27, 2024 11:46 pm

In post 1095, Random Nurse wrote: Fuck.

I'm already voting them.

(That's how fucked this IRL week has been.)

realizes this within a minute of their vote post?

please

Lycanfire · Sat Apr 27, 2024 11:55 pm

I think this is the elimination we should have had yesterday.

Lycanfire · Sat Apr 27, 2024 11:57 pm

I'll write a towncase for Kay here a bit. Good certainty there after reading her & Ranger three times.

pedit first game that i'm aware of

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 28, 2024 12:01 am

Sure, he can be snippy all he wants and I can excuse that as personality. He's had far too long to sync up with the town and consistently fails to do so.

In post 2095, Lycanfire wrote: thomith never truly derailed ranger for snow. gypyx is town from d2 and if gypyx is town, thomith is town. i know this is necessary set up to escape poe but i don't think this endgame is happening for you

Seems like someone with an agenda.

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 28, 2024 12:04 am

Somewhere during my 14 hours working I didn't calculate the time left in the day properly.

Counting beans at the end of every month sucks ass

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 28, 2024 12:07 am

damn, if he rolled scum here we're screwed.

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 28, 2024 12:08 am

any chance he was deliberately playing like a monke so he wouldn't get hammer tossed as the ic?

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 28, 2024 12:10 am

Thoughts on why this is categorized as complex?

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 28, 2024 12:20 am

Traitor in the hood would have been cool. I think the lack of PR was supposed to leave the side that didn't figure it out vulnerable. For instance, scum that set up great fakeclaims, or town that gets everyone to claim VT. The paranoia is meant to work both ways. How

infuriated

would I be if my team got rolled over because of no town prs.

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 28, 2024 2:36 am

Gypyx: Psyche has nearly 400 posts in the thread. Do you feel like scum would be so open to expose themselves to the town like this?

If yes, can you find anything that could only be scum in them?

I'm assuming you and Thomith are staying out of the game thread because it doesn't help to steer this game if it ends up in melo anyway. Not having the two of you on scum today means we conceivably need every other townie on them to elim.

You have the same options I gave Kay. We can find scum, or find all the towns, but if you do the latter you should work backwards and find the scums. That's the only way to ensure we eliminate properly today.

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 28, 2024 2:39 am

Oblivion, we need your susses for the day.

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 28, 2024 2:47 am

Somewhat curious about why you call Oblivion, Obsidian, Psyche. Sometimes both in the same post.

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 28, 2024 8:49 am

In post 768, geraintm wrote:
In post 750, KayJayQueue wrote:
In post 749, geraintm wrote: Like....I am tempted to just ignore the hood. We have all made The assumption there is scum in there, but i dont think the odds are any better than a Random player in the game so it isn't much use for a scum hunting tactic.

Or am I totally missing something? Some better than me explain it otherwise?
I think the odds are much better choosing 1 out of 5 instead of 1 of 8 (if you’re ignoring the hood, 1 of 13 if not)
Unless you’re arguing it’s not guaranteed that scum is in the 5. But everyone with experience so far has said there pretty much has to be (high percentage)
Sure, I highly doubt all scum are contained in the neighborhood so we still have a shot of catching scum outside but I wouldn’t say our odds are “better”.

But also I don’t fall under the “someone better than me” to explain so feel free to ignore.
Assuming there is 1 scum in the hood, that is 1 in 5.
Assuming then 2 scum not in the hood, that is 2 in 10. (Well 9 because I'm not in the hood)

I have no idea what you mean with 1 in 13??

How did he know this early d2

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 28, 2024 1:42 pm

In post 3199, geraintm wrote:
In post 1300, Alianna wrote:
2.15
Votecount 2.15

Ranger (3): Random Nurse, Titus, Oblivion
Hu Tao (3): Ranger, Naerys, PenguinPower
Snow2697 (2): Thomith, Gypyx
PenguinPower (2): KayJayQueue, Hu Tao
Thomith (1): Snow2697

Not Voting (2): geraintm, Lycanfire

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to secure an execution.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2024-04-07 10:29:00).

Mod Notes: The combined mod ISO is here.

This would have been a great point for me to decide Hu Toa was scum and push that wagon along and get momentum going, but I didn't.

Ranger was 100% dead at this post count. Posts like this read like admitting to not having feelings during the game that you have to scramble to fake.

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 28, 2024 1:43 pm

In post 3206, Psyche wrote: lf said he had a kay towncase
did he share it?

I slept for a long ass time

She's pretty obvious town from interactions with Dave and Ranger. I'll go find the ones that stood out.

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 28, 2024 1:44 pm

In post 3201, Psyche wrote: you think lf is scum?

He went from not knowing why kay voted you yesterday to voting you himself in OMGUS.

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 28, 2024 2:19 pm

I think this is a kneejerk reaction to your playstyle, Kay. It would be easy to play scum and actively try to towntell all game. You have strong opinions, but they're islands in the ocean of your posts. People like conviction, and admitting you don't know where to go in the game frustrates people even irrationally as rather than empathize they will react negatively toward you for not being more town.

For what it's worth I feel like you've been an open book this game. If you are scum, your play here is great and nobody will let you sheep as much

While I work on my post maybe you could link a recent towngame? We've all seen your recent scumgame.

How do you feel about Geraint accusing his wagon and being okay with Gypyx and Oblivion starting a new wagon? Do you feel like he should have interfered based off that game you were scum together?

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 28, 2024 3:56 pm

My read on Kay:

1) Where would Ranger put her teammates? Kay was nearly unmovable from "P14" onward. She only ever dipped at page 27, where she made a single post about the kill being upsetting. I read this as Ranger trying to pocket someone that was vocal about Dave, and dropping Kay the one slot that Ranger did was to make Kay think

she was actually being sorted

. Ranger could have easily blank TRed Kay if they were partners and wouldn't need to fake it. I think Kay was very townie throughout D2.
2) Kay is a non-Ranger voter, but for the first half of D2 might as well had been a voter. She was laser focused on Ranger and reminding Ranger that she was in contention.
3) Kay didn't make an effort to save Ranger, and is making no effort right now to cash in on how she was pushing Ranger D2.

Interactions:

In post 332, davesaz wrote:
In post 326, KayJayQueue wrote: UNVOTE:

That Naerys wagon makes no sense to me.
How hard did you look at the vote reasons? Are they any more or less valid than typical for d1?
Also how does the comment relate to the unvote?

From my point of view this is an interesting comment:
Votecount 1.10

Little Will o' Wisp

(3):

Gypyx

, PenguinPower,

davesaz

Naerys

(3):

Little Will o' Wisp

,

Thomith

, Titus

davesaz

(2):

Hu Tao

, Snow2697

Hu Tao

(2):

NotAScum

, geraintm
PenguinPower (1):

JacksonVirgo

NotAScum

(1): KayJayQueue
Titus (1):

Naerys

Not Voting (2): Random Nurse, Oblivion

Kay's trajectory would have had her vote willow. She didn't oblige until the end of day, making different votes in this time. I feel like dave was trying to manipulate her here.

In post 1005, KayJayQueue wrote: Ranger, I’ve been waiting patiently for you to catch up. You had been reading page by page originally. Are you caught up? Where exactly are you on reads/do you have an updated reads list? There’s been a lot of talk about how we’re on the wrong path as a town but that argument is feeling cyclical at the moment. I can’t figure out if your latest reads (especially on Naerys) are based on the game as a whole, recent events, or the beginning of the game.

In post 1098, KayJayQueue wrote: Ranger can you please give explanations for these reads more than just names in a list? I feel like you think we should understand why they were moving up and down relative to the page number…it wasn’t as helpful as I think you believe it was. At least not for me.

In post 1120, KayJayQueue wrote:
In post 1082, Ranger wrote: I'll say before bed; you all really
have
slacked.

I'm usually not topping the post charts; despite replacing in half a week ago, I'm already the third-highest poster and climbing.
I’m not 100% positive if you are at E-1 or E-2 but once we get a vote count my intent is to either put you at E-1 or hammer, whichever it is. I think we’d all appreciate a claim at this point. I won’t hammer without a claim but I can’t guarantee any one else won’t either.

In post 1130, Ranger wrote:
In post 1120, KayJayQueue wrote:
In post 1082, Ranger wrote:I'll say before bed; you all really
have
slacked.

I'm usually not topping the post charts; despite replacing in half a week ago, I'm already the third-highest poster and climbing.
I’m not 100% positive if you are at E-1 or E-2 but once we get a vote count my intent is to either put you at E-1 or hammer, whichever it is. I think we’d all appreciate a claim at this point. I won’t hammer without a claim but I can’t guarantee any one else won’t either.
I’m busy until tomorrow, so I can’t address how terrible the votes on me are.

I feel given the site downtime and how horrendous the votes on me are, I’m owed a chance to respond to them and for the wagon to be given a chance to dissipate without the need for a claim.

If you or others disagree, then sure, I can claim, yet you are being foolish for not critically examining how awful the vote pileon is and why it
shouldn’t
merit forcing me to claim.

In post 1137, KayJayQueue wrote: I don’t think anyone should be discrediting every person that’s voting you just because you say it’s wrong. Obviously we don’t have a way of knowing what is and isn’t “correct” unless someone has extra info. You saying votes are not for valid reasons seems like an unfair assessment of the effort we are putting into solving.

I do find it slightly odd that there hasn’t been any kind of real counter wagon. That might be my only hesitation currently.

In post 1141, Ranger wrote:
In post 1137, KayJayQueue wrote:I don’t think anyone should be discrediting every person that’s voting you just because you say it’s wrong.
Of course not.

They should be discrediting the votes by looking at the reasons for the votes and seeing
how terrible they are
.

Late, bbl.

Ranger makes another post reply to this 30 minutes later. This seems like an attempt at manipulation, not a one and done SvS interaction:

In post 1147, Ranger wrote:
In post 1137, KayJayQueue wrote:You saying votes are not for valid reasons seems like an unfair assessment of the effort we are putting into solving.
Clearly not. My assessment of the amount of solving being done is accurate as I’ve done more effort to solve the game in five days than any player has the entire game.

And I can state that as objective fact.

The accuracy of my solve is up for debate.

That I have done it and far more than nearly any other slot isn’t; it’s an objectively true fact.

Ranger's ego rubs Kay the wrong way:

In post 1149, Ranger wrote:
In post 1148, Ranger wrote:
In post 1137, KayJayQueue wrote:You saying votes are not for valid reasons seems like
an unfair assessment of the effort we are putting into solving
.

I do find it slightly odd that
there hasn’t been any kind of real counter wagon
. That might be my only hesitation currently.
Perhaps consider the contradiction behind the bolded.
To be more explicit;

You cannot seriously claim there’s been solving while also ignoring there’s no counterwagon, half the game isn’t voting, and
no critical analysis of the votes given has been provided
.

Have you looked at the reason for Random Nurse's revote of me?

How about Oblivion?

How about Titus?

Did you look at those reasons for voting and think, "this is valid, this seems to track, I have no disagreements with this"?

I’m willing to bet you didn’t.

So if you didn’t have that thought...

...Where's the alleged effort into solving?

In post 1151, Ranger wrote:
In post 1144, KayJayQueue wrote:
In post 1140, Oblivion wrote: It is almost as if the scum team got an injection of motivation with a replacement player.
Is that accurate? If the scum team includes Ranger and she’s pretty likely to be limmed, wouldn’t a motivated team be aiding in this somehow? Unless I’ve overlooked some posts, I can always go back and reread but it currently seems like everyone is at least content with the Ranger vote. That is slightly worrying to me. Does anyone else have an opinion on lack of counter? Is this just paranoia?
No. That’s critical thinking.

I know who the scum are killing once I flip town.

In post 1153, KayJayQueue wrote: I feel like I should disengage with this for awhile while I reread the last few pages. You’re making me feel like I’m an idiot and maybe it’s lack of sleep but I’m feeling a bit out of my depth right now. I feel like I’m defending myself for trying to play the game. I think I was even the most vocal about letting you catch up on your reads too. I was very eager for your input especially since Dave didn’t really give me a ton to go off of. I guess I’m just not used to a play style like yours and I’ll have to adjust to it.

Ranger does not oblige the disengage and continues to bother Kay:

In post 1156, Ranger wrote:
In post 1153, KayJayQueue wrote: I feel like I’m defending myself for trying to play the game.
What a coincidence, so am I!

My argument in part is that the wagon on me, with no counterwagon, is
deliberately designed to prevent players from playing the game
.

It warps the game around me and makes the game entirely about me.

I didn’t sign up for that, nor did I cause it. My efforts have consistently been to
dissuade
that gamestate, as there’s never anything good to come from focusing entirely on one player.

My question to you is
why have my efforts failed?

Why is the game entirely still about me?

I certainly would prefer it otherwise!

So why do I remain the sole focus of players
despite
my efforts?

It’s almost like me remaining the focus is beneficial to scum.

I know which alignment that implies for me.

In post 1157, Ranger wrote:
In post 1153, KayJayQueue wrote:I was very eager for your input especially since Dave didn’t really give me a ton to go off of. I guess I’m just not used to a play style like yours and I’ll have to adjust to it.
Perhaps you could look at the input I gave, then?

I gave page by page changes in my reads.

Did any stick out to you? Did you even
look
at them?

I gave a basic summary of my reads after I got to my replace-in spot. Did you read my rundown of each slot?

I work best by letting players engage with my content, and elaborating on it when they do.

So why is the engagement so low?

People wanted contributions from my slot.
I gave them
. So why are they pretending I haven’t?

In post 1158, Ranger wrote:
In post 1098, KayJayQueue wrote:Ranger can you please give explanations for these reads more than just names in a list?
I explain the changes when engaged on them.

As for explaining the reads, you apparently need a read yourself.

From there on Oblivion goes aggro on Ranger. I try to separate them. I tell Ranger there's good reasons to suspect them, they claim and promise more content the next day and never return.

------------------------
Outside of interactions Kay is difficult to read. She goes through periods of uncertainty and "goes with the flow". She's been trigger happy with her vote, but I haven't noticed an agenda with this (unless people think Kay and Psyche are aligned - which I think we should all agree should not be a good pairing). Her reads come from gut feelings and takes time to articulate why. This was frustrating for me to read as otherwise she's been very active and posting in real time with people, which should be great. I think we would all hate to lose to scum!Kay here but we shouldn't let our pride direct us to a bad elimination when we otherwise should have a winning POE. If we can agree on town!Kay here, we're less likely to fumble any potential MELO.

I'm back to the theory that the most likely scenario is the right one for this game. I was distracted by the idea of a fourth mafiaso yesterday, but I think we had the game there. From these interactions especially with Ranger I would be very surprised if they were aligned. Ranger was fighting for her life, and Kay was making the thread (along with Oblivion) all about Ranger's ego and how they were mistreating the people voting her. Which she was, because I told her that too.

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 28, 2024 3:58 pm

tl;dr Kay is town. Just because you can't read her as a player doesn't make her not town. She's town because she does town things, doesn't have an agenda other than pushing what the town wants at the time, and is town through d2 play. Consolidate elsewhere.

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 28, 2024 3:59 pm

Sorry that that took so long but I slept for a long time (am technically on 'vacation' starting today so I did way too much work yesterday in preparation). My phone was blowing up.

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 28, 2024 4:28 pm

Do you still scumread Kay despite her interactions with Ranger, Oblivion? Why do you suspect her?

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 28, 2024 10:49 pm

That should be a hammer

Thoughts on the fake hammer by Oblivion?

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 28, 2024 10:51 pm

I think it believed it was one.

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 28, 2024 10:59 pm

I'm not entirely convinced that geraint can't be Oblivion's partner if Oblivion is scum.

I think out if the reactions between Oblivion, random nurse and Enchant that Enchant had the best one.

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 28, 2024 11:05 pm

You could have argued for yourself a lot better Kay. When push came to shove you didn't lean on how you treated Ranger d2, when you could have "aha!"ed us.

Lycanfire · Sun Apr 28, 2024 11:08 pm

I don't enjoy being made to feel bad for this elimination. It made sense and we removed someone that should not make it to melo. Eliminating Kay here would have been entirely preventable and actual bad play.

Lycanfire · Wed May 01, 2024 9:55 pm

VOTE: random nurse

The fake hammer was ick, and the real hammer following it up was real ick.

Seeing as we got scum I'll forgive Oblivion. Didn't feel good before the flip, and I'm not sure how much credit random nurse gets for pushing it through because they seem to really want the credit.

I think this is the most sensible partner of Ranger and Geraint.

Let's look into this.

1) Where would Ranger put her partners? Random nurse bounced from null, up and down the town portion of her reads and ending in {top tier} on page 44. Geraint bounced between town-null-scum, ending up in the middle. I think random nurse being town or scum being given a TR to be listened to on d2 is +scum, so while I think placing him here is more scum indicative than not, it isn't by much.
2) Random Nurse was a Dave voter, not so much a Ranger voter. He never interacted with Ranger outside of asking for her reads one time. He re-voted Ranger (hinting he was sheeping Hu Tao on the suspicion on TPR), only to make a comment that he was already voting her. Didn't seem as obvious as Titus' as-I-call-it townslip, because she never corrected herself, and nobody seemed to catch it until I did yesterday.

Y'know what I did when I suspected someone of having a result on someone? I kept my mouth shut until after they claimed VT.

3) He didn't vote Ranger though, and spent most of the day arguing with Gypyx. He continued doing so even after Ranger was caught in damning inconsistencies, which scum may have been too hopeful would be overlooked as pressure briefly swung against Snow/Hu Tao.
4) I'm of the opinion that despite being a Ranger voter he tried to save her, and this was the plan according to his ascent to {top tier}. Let's look at what happened on Day 2 for Random Nurse:

Ranger Mentions: 6
implied ranger mention: 1
Gypyx Mentions: 27
Thomith Mentions: 18
implied gypyx/thomith mentions: 3
Other 12 players: 15

Random Nurse's d2:
Votes dave, accuses willow of manipulating them, implies Naerys scum or they will scumhunt them easily, susses gypyx on the hood once revealed, asks thomith why they want to eliminate in the hood. asks to know of what has happened in the hood. repeatedly asks gypyx if they would vote thomith. asked thomith is they would "launch" gypyx. asked the both of them why they haven't clarified why they townread each other. asks if the game is singleball. asks about scum vig and serial killer. after ranger's claim, says they do not want to eliminate in the hood (still hasn't changed vote). asks for "thoughts on geraintm". susses geraintm on a post that i actually liked. implied a ranger scumread (referenced her post number but no name or quote). once again said they didn't want to eliminate in the hood.

Lycanfire · Wed May 01, 2024 10:00 pm

badposting:

In post 1279, Random Nurse wrote: Despite there being only one kill Night 1 we ARE 100% certain this game is singleball, correct?

(I know, I know, I just HAVE to ask.)

distraction/trying to cause shit in the hood

In post 1235, Random Nurse wrote:1. What's the main reason you won't launch Gypyx?

2. Assuming you won't launch Gypyx, and factoring in Ranger's claim, who are you wanting to launch between Titus and Snow and why?

In post 1237, Random Nurse wrote:
In post 1234, Gypyx wrote:
In post 1232, Random Nurse wrote:
In post 1230, Gypyx wrote: Yes but it's highly, HIGHLY, HIIIIIIIIIGHLY unrealistic of you to base your expectations around that

Is that my expectation?

...or are you just reacting a tad bit defensively?
What i'm saying is that maybe it's possible but if you don't have anything that points to that then holy shit you're making the most unlikely possibilities first

...

Interesting.

So, why exactly are you not voting Thomith?

Is he completely off the table for you today?

In post 1266, Random Nurse wrote: Oh, hey, did you two ever respond to my questions on why you trust each other so much and apparently won't vote each other?

bc this should be your focus rather than

In post 1203, Lycanfire wrote:
In post 1172, Ranger wrote:
In post 1164, Lycanfire wrote:This isn't about what is fair or right. It's about what is needed to redeem your slot.
Pray tell, why does my slot need redeeming?
Your slot needs redeeming if we work with the conclusion it's suspicious. Here's my reasons:

dave was stirring shit up in 331 while not doing anything productive.
dave TRed Hu when he shouldn't have in 514, as Hu is doing the above as well
dave's reaction to jackson in 585 wrt to PR hunting. it's a "just what" kind of post. so bad.
-I don't like how you started with reads of a current page (talking about where you'd put me, despite only reading the first 5 pages and using that as a baseline to move people around after the fact).
-you talked me up as a great scumplayer the last time i replaced in
-Your trajectory on your read through lacks any passion, and I'm sure you were taught from a young age to show your work. You voted Hu after your page 13 read through, but didn't say why you wanted to vote her. This was within the minute of your P13 recap, and 7 minutes before the P14 post.
Hu didn't post between pages 10-13
. "P12 (no, that's not Naerys up; that's all of those names
down)" ??????

In post 1136, Ranger wrote:
In post 1135, Oblivion wrote:This is its shocked face.
Wait until you realize what davesaz's role actually was.

In post 1182, Ranger wrote:I am a N3 Vig/N4 Jailkeeper[/b]
???

UNVOTE:

I was wrong when I said I replaced in and Ranger couldn't TR me in another game. I was replacing into a lot of games around this time last year: i designed this setup in 2019 by xyzzy. scum imploded in this game. going to compare the ISOs, but I remember catching inconsistencies in Ranger's tier lists, which she stopped doing entirely at some point.

In post 1256, Random Nurse wrote:
In post 961, geraintm wrote: It feels like a.lot of bad faith voting going on at the moment.

I just can't work out who

This has an air of "don't look at me I'm Towning," and it irks my gut.

i liked this post d2

In post 1257, Random Nurse wrote:
In post 1255, Thomith wrote:
In post 1252, Random Nurse wrote: Thoughts on geraintm at the moment?

*sips tea*
I remember thinking Gera was town but I don't really remember why I thought that if I'm being Completely honest, so I should probably reread him.

Yeah you should probably refresh your thoughts on that one.

did this go anywhere

Lycanfire · Wed May 01, 2024 10:02 pm

next up: how you intersect with geraintm. currently counting his mentions d2 though. wonder how many times he says gypyx/thomith.

Lycanfire · Wed May 01, 2024 10:30 pm

Where does Geraint and Random Nurse intersect?

Geraint pushed the same anti-Homies narrative D2:

In post 848, geraintm wrote:
In post 770, Random Nurse wrote: I'm just going to say right now I hate "towncores/townblocks" in general. Too easy to shield experienced Scum.
unless there is a mechanical reason for it, then this

In post 852, geraintm wrote:
In post 849, Thomith wrote:
In post 848, geraintm wrote:
In post 770, Random Nurse wrote: I'm just going to say right now I hate "towncores/townblocks" in general. Too easy to shield experienced Scum.
unless there is a mechanical reason for it, then this
Why?

Could you also explain how 2 people who strongly town read each other is "easy for scum to hide behind"?
because one may not be town and have bamboozled the other. i think it is in the interest of scum to form "town blocks" and cruise through the game

Geraint mentions d2:

thomith: 5
gypyx: 7
ranger: 6
other

12

11 players: 7

Geraint also pushed the not-eliminating-in-the-hood rhetoric (honestly did anyone besides these 2 ever say this?)

In post 869, geraintm wrote:
In post 866, Gypyx wrote:
In post 864, geraintm wrote: i dont think i am on board with you Gypyx in you just lining up a bunch of Hood members and running through them. i don't think that is optimal strategy for the rest of us to trust you so much
i think you're misundersteanding me, i'm not saying that we run through snow / ranger / titus without discussion, this is more of me preassuming that they'll flip scum and how to work on that

you are obviously not forced to trust me but i hope you'll come around to it eventually since that's a read i'm pretty confident in
oh, it very much read like that was what you wanted to happen and we should all just go along with it.

i was not liking that at all.

In post 1348, geraintm wrote:
In post 1347, Thomith wrote:
In post 1344, Naerys wrote: I hate broken quotes
Gypyx is the one focused on limming in the hood, nurse
I am almost positive there are scum in the hood.
Same, but it shouldn't be driving the elimination today

1) Random Nurse suspected Geraint end of day 2, and made 6 posts day 3 implying or accusing they were lurking.
2) Geraint said he liked Random Nurse for his Ranger push on day 4, but Random Nurse didn't have a Ranger push. He had a blank vote onto Dave that he didn't move despite his focus being elsewhere (see above post.)
3) I waited nearly a day for random nurse to post to hopefully call bullshit on the above.
So, despite the above three points, the following happened:
He did not call bullshit on the above. When I called him out on this, he asked who he should call bullshit on, and suggested me.
4) Random nurse immediately voted me after I pushed Geraint for fake anger. It was a blank vote, giving away nothing to analyze. A townie wouldn't have been scared to give an opinion.
5) Random nurse asked geraint to join a wagon on me

Lycanfire · Wed May 01, 2024 10:34 pm

In post 3309, Random Nurse wrote: I don't like this opportunistic shift by Lycanfire.

In post 2077, Lycanfire wrote:

In post 2085, Lycanfire wrote: mostly to annoy you

your d2 is really shitty focusing on gypyx and ignoring ranger. totally ignoring ranger. not even talking to her.

In post 1258, Random Nurse wrote: Hey, Gypyx, why do you think Jackson was killed?
random distraction to make snow fight thomith, probably sensing some morale to push thomith after my 1032. shame snow and i didn't see it the same way tho.

these three constantly pushing against the town, any vote here wins

In post 2875, Lycanfire wrote: Random nurse, thoughts on geraintm? You mentioned being wary of their lack of presence. They've been here lately. Based off what they are giving us do you have an opinion on this slot?

In post 3142, Lycanfire wrote: I think random nurse is a more likely bus vote. His only worthwhile contribution is a vote, which reads like scaredscum assuming there's a guilty on his partner. They townslip not knowing who Ranger replaced, but it seems more aware than Titus imo.

In post 640, Random Nurse wrote: OK.

VOTE: Dave

In post 1094, Random Nurse wrote:
In post 1039, Hu Tao wrote:
In post 1012, Naerys wrote: VOTE: Naerys
can u just vote me out i dont wanna read Rangers posts anymore
Can you just vote ranger

I suspect there's a very specific reason why you want us to vote Ranger?

If Ranger turns out to be Town I'll be coming for you.

VOTE: Ranger

In post 1095, Random Nurse wrote: Fuck.

I'm already voting them.

(That's how fucked this IRL week has been.)
They spent the entirety of day 2 arguing with Gypyx.

In post 1237, Random Nurse wrote:
In post 1234, Gypyx wrote:
In post 1232, Random Nurse wrote:
In post 1230, Gypyx wrote: Yes but it's highly, HIGHLY, HIIIIIIIIIGHLY unrealistic of you to base your expectations around that

Is that my expectation?

...or are you just reacting a tad bit defensively?
What i'm saying is that maybe it's possible but if you don't have anything that points to that then holy shit you're making the most unlikely possibilities first

...

Interesting.

So, why exactly are you not voting Thomith?

Is he completely off the table for you today?
Could be a slip from the scum PT that they were (presumably) acting strangely in the hood and was rolefishing.

In post 1258, Random Nurse wrote: Hey, Gypyx, why do you think Jackson was killed?
Distraction/scumangle.

In post 1328, Random Nurse wrote: I have the sneaking suspicion that should Ranger flip Town I'll be the convenient scapegoat.
does fuck all to push ranger. this post looks fake.

Did nothing to interact with Ranger. Asked them for reads one time. It's Ranger you don't have to ask.

In post 459, Random Nurse wrote:
In post 392, Hu Tao wrote:
In post 390, PenguinPower wrote: why do you suspect dave
Meta. He seems off this game.

As is that's not that convincing.

Could you be a bit more specific please?
sure they questioned the NAS wagon repeatedly and this could have had morale collapse onto Dave. IMO, Dave was worth elimination and random nurse stood to benefit.

most shocking anime betrayal

Lycanfire · Wed May 01, 2024 10:36 pm

In post 3102, Lycanfire wrote:
In post 3096, Random Nurse wrote: This game kind of pisses me off.

USUALLY I can kind of sense who the Scums are, and I slowly start homing in on them. This go around I'm still not catching any slight signals. Usually there's a trace tell that catches my gut radar, but my gut just isn't catching anything. Still wouldn't surprise me if Thomith/Gypyx were Mafia Neighbors like Ranger, but no one wants to pull on that thread. Excluding those two I can't really sense who the Scum are, so they're playing much better than the usual Scum I've caught.
Interesting word choice.

Random nurse, if you're town you need to get with the program. If you can't find scum, find towns. Put in some work and stop having a large poe.

This is only anti-town. A large poe is exacty what scum need to win. We can't bring you to melo, because if you aren't scum you sure aren't getting killed either. Out of all the players in this game you've cast the largest net.

fake anger tell

Lycanfire · Wed May 01, 2024 10:44 pm

In post 3156, Lycanfire wrote: damn, if he rolled scum here we're screwed.

Lycanfire · Wed May 01, 2024 10:54 pm

Yeah you're pretty obvious that's for sure

Lycanfire · Wed May 01, 2024 10:56 pm

can't wait to see what the ranger and geraint triangulation say about *checks watch* random nurse's meta

Lycanfire · Wed May 01, 2024 11:06 pm

sure:

being SO wrong on thomith and gypyx when ranger is busy hanging herself is scummy

coincidentally selling the same narrative as ranger and geraintm is scummy

continuing to be SO wrong on thomith and gypyx because they're rewarding you with townreads for it is scummy

being so wrong up until they're killed at this point is a self-parody at best

let's not pretend this is all that is scummy about you: pushing the same not-eliminating-in-hood narrative as geraintm, forgetting your SR on geraintm between d3-d4, accusing me when i suggested you should have called geraintm's statement as being false when he said you had a good push on ranger, blank voting me because why not, wagoning gypyx with geraintm, wagoning me with geraintm, fake anger tellx2. fake anger 1: "convenient scapegoat if ranger flips town" comment d2 when you didn't do shit to push ranger. fake anger tell 2: echoing kay's feelings d4 by saying the game is "pissing you off" because there's no scum signals.... what about geraintm or myself, or whatever your "paranoia" has.

Lycanfire · Wed May 01, 2024 11:07 pm

In post 3321, Random Nurse wrote:
In post 3319, Lycanfire wrote: can't wait to see what the ranger and geraint triangulation say about *checks watch* random nurse's meta

Hey, quick question—what do you know about my meta?

nothing. address the game.

Lycanfire · Wed May 01, 2024 11:09 pm

pagetop get

Lycanfire · Wed May 01, 2024 11:44 pm

In post 3309, Random Nurse wrote: I don't like this opportunistic shift by Lycanfire.

this is so unexpected and scandalous

He's either Town going down the wrong path or Scum trying to get a mislim.

this or that comment. you read this and you agree with one of the scenarios.

I am a bit amused by all the little things he's trying to present as being dubious/suspicious. It doesn't sound like he knows my meta one bit, and anyone who's played with me as Town (and knows my persistent irksomeness as Town) knows this isn't my Scum meta.

everything i do that is scummy is small and insignificant. any reason i give to be town is overwhelming.

Yeah I was wrong about Thomith and Gypyx but I'm allowed to be, and as Town you'd be stupid to be like "oh yeah, I'll take your word for it." Of COURSE the game is set uo that way to make your paranoid about those two roles in the game.

minimizing the case to right about thomith/gypyx | wrong about thomith/gypyx. when aspects such as timing, collusion, wilful ignorance of more pressing tells took place

you're just sitting here making manipulating statement after manipulating statement

In post 3293, Random Nurse wrote: Triangulating Ranger and Geraintm should help narrow down the (hopefully) last Scum.

In post 3321, Random Nurse wrote:
In post 3319, Lycanfire wrote: can't wait to see what the ranger and geraint triangulation say about *checks watch* random nurse's meta

Hey, quick question—what do you know about my meta?

any opportunity to do so works for you. so slimy.

Lycanfire · Wed May 01, 2024 11:52 pm

Meh, we've played. Probably just on my alt. Don't see how you can't be scum.

Lycanfire · Wed May 01, 2024 11:57 pm

In post 3333, Enchant wrote: I am not really interested in this.

From my pov i need to find 2 townies. Then assuming i am not executed, we win.
From your pov statistic is same. If you assume me as town then you really only need to know 1 townie to win while executing everyone else.

So let's just today agree on two players who are "totally town" and execute everyone BUT them, eh.

We have more than enough info to end this. You should be able to find all the townies/scum from the flips.

Lycanfire · Thu May 02, 2024 8:30 pm

I think both of you are town.

Lycanfire · Thu May 02, 2024 8:32 pm

I don't want to be that uncompromising person that only wants to push one elimination through but I definitely wouldn't eliminate {gypyx, psyche, kay} with you two pretty close from me being willing to bet the game on, too.

Lycanfire · Thu May 02, 2024 8:34 pm

Enchant, how do you feel about how Oblivion and Ranger interacted day 2?

Furthermore, how do you feel about the rhetoric geraintm was using day 2? This would run counter to Oblivion's continued push onto Ranger.

Lycanfire · Thu May 02, 2024 8:34 pm

Oblivion, why do you think RN town?

Lycanfire · Thu May 02, 2024 8:46 pm

In post 3341, Psyche wrote: anyway i read through LF's posts again and still think RN is town.
LF's case is somewhat close to a gish gallop though -- quite long and i'm a bit too lazy to try to contradict every part of it
think his approach for using vca and relational tells to sort slots like RN and potentially also kay is a bit limited when applied to players who might not reliably come to reasonable post-to-post conclusions about the status of their strategic interests
maybe the right compromise that includes enchant's preference is just to lim RN and my preference to avoid tedious debate and return to the topic tomorrow -- supposing he really is town

I don't see anything wrong with the case. Random Nurse's day 2 vote sucked, by his own admission it was better placed (not wanting to eliminate in the hood), never truly interacted with the person he voted, acted sketchy when getting onto the dave/ranger wagon, spent the entire day arguing with gypyx/thomith. Shaded the only other flipped scum eod2.

Accused the only other flipped scum of lurking 6 times d3.

On day 4 the only other flipped scum lied about liking Random Nurse's push onto Ranger d1. At this point, I asked Random Nurse for their opinion on geraintm

In post 2875, Lycanfire wrote: Random nurse, thoughts on geraintm? You mentioned being wary of their lack of presence. They've been here lately. Based off what they are giving us do you have an opinion on this slot?

I never got any after waiting a full day

He seems to back up geraintm and forgets his SR, again on the only other flipped scum.

In post 2909, Random Nurse wrote:
In post 2905, Lycanfire wrote: Yes this is why I've done literally nothing for a day out of the chance random nurse came in and called bullshit on their own.

Call bullshit on whom? You?

He pushed the same agenda as geraintm on d2 (questioning "townblocks"/thomith/gypyx and "not wanting to eliminate in the hood").

etc etc. i can keep expanding the case with more context if you want, but holy shit how can we overlook how he defended geraintm yesterday?

Lycanfire · Thu May 02, 2024 8:50 pm

In post 3381, Oblivion wrote:
In post 3380, Lycanfire wrote: Oblivion, why do you think RN town?
It wonders why after it failed on its hammer yesterday and Gypyx was ready to kill it, RN hammered before other slots could remove their vote and change the kill to it.

Geraintm was gonna go no matter what. Doesn't matter if it was yesterday or today.

Lycanfire · Thu May 02, 2024 8:54 pm

In post 3382, Enchant wrote:
In post 3379, Lycanfire wrote: Enchant, how do you feel about how Oblivion and Ranger interacted day 2?
I mostly forgot anything.

I know that mafia while having pretty good chances to pivot wagon on someone else just by supporting Gypix, prefered to sit on teammate.
There's reason why i believed flip will be town, because how counterintuitive it is, if mafia didn't vote teammate, you would need to convince Gypix to vote, Thomith or Me.

I get that from the perspective of a town!you there must have been a bus. Based off what you're saying in the italicized portion, does this relate to Oblivion?

Lycanfire · Thu May 02, 2024 8:56 pm

If geraintm goes day 4 or day 5 it doesn't change the number of town eliminations required to win. this is WIFOM

Lycanfire · Thu May 02, 2024 9:00 pm

In post 3328, Random Nurse wrote:If I were Scum wouldn't it just make more sense to just blend in and agree that they're both Town and just go along with it while killing them at night?

Easier yes. My point is that this was a d2 distraction and your focus didn't line up with your vote. Your continued SR of the homies is very easily explained by how Gypyx kept townreading you, plus, you shouldn't have known they were informed until mid-late d3.

Lycanfire · Thu May 02, 2024 9:04 pm

You voted Davesaz, you didn't vote Ranger. Really epic vote park

Lycanfire · Thu May 02, 2024 9:06 pm

In post 1404, Alianna wrote:
2.FINAL
Votecount 2.FINAL

Ranger (EXECUTED): Random Nurse, Titus, Oblivion, PenguinPower, Lycanfire, Thomith, Gypyx
PenguinPower (2): KayJayQueue, Hu Tao
Gypyx (2): geraintm, Naerys
Hu Tao (1): Ranger
Thomith (1): Snow2697

With 13 players alive, it took 7 votes to secure an execution.

Mod Notes: The combined mod ISO is here.

Just saying everyone alive right now has eliminated scum at least once. Kay and Gypyx only once.

Lycanfire · Thu May 02, 2024 9:08 pm

In post 3305, Lycanfire wrote: VOTE: random nurse

The fake hammer was ick, and the real hammer following it up was real ick.

Seeing as we got scum I'll forgive Oblivion. Didn't feel good before the flip, and I'm not sure how much credit random nurse gets for pushing it through because they seem to really want the credit.

I think this is the most sensible partner of Ranger and Geraint.

Let's look into this.

1) Where would Ranger put her partners? Random nurse bounced from null, up and down the town portion of her reads and ending in {top tier} on page 44. Geraint bounced between town-null-scum, ending up in the middle. I think random nurse being town or scum being given a TR to be listened to on d2 is +scum, so while I think placing him here is more scum indicative than not, it isn't by much.
2) Random Nurse was a Dave voter, not so much a Ranger voter. He never interacted with Ranger outside of asking for her reads one time. He re-voted Ranger (hinting he was sheeping Hu Tao on the suspicion on TPR), only to make a comment that he was already voting her. Didn't seem as obvious as Titus' as-I-call-it townslip, because she never corrected herself, and nobody seemed to catch it until I did yesterday.

Y'know what I did when I suspected someone of having a result on someone? I kept my mouth shut until after they claimed VT.

3) He didn't vote Ranger though, and spent most of the day arguing with Gypyx. He continued doing so even after Ranger was caught in damning inconsistencies, which scum may have been too hopeful would be overlooked as pressure briefly swung against Snow/Hu Tao.
4) I'm of the opinion that despite being a Ranger voter he tried to save her, and this was the plan according to his ascent to {top tier}. Let's look at what happened on Day 2 for Random Nurse:

Ranger Mentions: 6
implied ranger mention: 1
Gypyx Mentions: 27
Thomith Mentions: 18
implied gypyx/thomith mentions: 3
Other 12 players: 15

Random Nurse's d2:
Votes dave, accuses willow of manipulating them, implies Naerys scum or they will scumhunt them easily, susses gypyx on the hood once revealed, asks thomith why they want to eliminate in the hood. asks to know of what has happened in the hood. repeatedly asks gypyx if they would vote thomith. asked thomith is they would "launch" gypyx. asked the both of them why they haven't clarified why they townread each other. asks if the game is singleball. asks about scum vig and serial killer. after ranger's claim, says they do not want to eliminate in the hood (still hasn't changed vote). asks for "thoughts on geraintm". susses geraintm on a post that i actually liked. implied a ranger scumread (referenced her post number but no name or quote). once again said they didn't want to eliminate in the hood.

Lycanfire · Thu May 02, 2024 9:10 pm

Dude, you voted Davesaz and vote parked the slot for the entirety of the day and did fuck all. Is this the "good push" geraintm was talking about?

Lycanfire · Thu May 02, 2024 9:12 pm

In post 640, Random Nurse wrote: OK.

VOTE: Dave

In post 1094, Random Nurse wrote:
In post 1039, Hu Tao wrote:
In post 1012, Naerys wrote: VOTE: Naerys
can u just vote me out i dont wanna read Rangers posts anymore
Can you just vote ranger

I suspect there's a very specific reason why you want us to vote Ranger?

If Ranger turns out to be Town I'll be coming for you.

VOTE: Ranger

In post 1095, Random Nurse wrote: Fuck.

I'm already voting them.

(That's how fucked this IRL week has been.)

Lycanfire · Thu May 02, 2024 9:12 pm

Yes, Ranger replaced Davesaz. We both know, especially after you went out of your way to let Hu Tao know you were keen on sheeping them, and you corrected yourself that you were already voting her within a minute. Stop acting ignorant.

Lycanfire · Thu May 02, 2024 9:13 pm

You barely mentioned her name or quoted her posts. You interacted with her exactly once where you asked for reads... Reads from Ranger... lol

Lycanfire · Thu May 02, 2024 9:16 pm

In post 3406, Random Nurse wrote:
In post 3401, Lycanfire wrote: Yes, Ranger replaced Davesaz. We both know, especially after you went out of your way to let Hu Tao know you were keen on sheeping them, and you corrected yourself that you were already voting her within a minute. Stop acting ignorant.

I don't like this.

You're trying to find every reason to twist my words and shade me. Not cool.

Yes, I'm dropping shade on you because you're shady. Your words are your words.

Lycanfire · Thu May 02, 2024 9:20 pm

In post 3405, Enchant wrote:Oblivion doesn't give me reason to reconsider and even if i for moment believed Oblivion may be town it STILL go, because i am not risking being shitpushed and eliminated instead due it efforts.

I think Oblivion wanted to play with a persona ("the mind meld") but they hit every branch slipping off the tree starting on d2 in their fight with Ranger. I can sympathize with all their disheartening moments, and I think the difference between Oblivion and I is that I haven't had my opportunity to play persona

taken away

, so to speak.

I think they're lazy voting you because their reads haven't caught up yet. Try taking a step back and understand why they're lagging behind.

Lycanfire · Thu May 02, 2024 9:21 pm

It may have been missed in your read through Enchant, but Oblivion got frustrated with Gypyx/Thomith dominating the thread d3 and not being listened to.

Lycanfire · Thu May 02, 2024 9:24 pm

Oblivion wasn't pushing an agenda. They completely bounced out of the game d3 even though I announced to the thread that I was essentially making Oblivion a double voter.

Lycanfire · Thu May 02, 2024 9:32 pm

I'd like to apologize for my repeated use of

they

when I speak about Oblivion. I will do better to use the pronoun

it

. I default to the more gender neutral

they

often, but I think it would prefer a different pronoun for this account.

Lycanfire · Fri May 03, 2024 7:13 am

I'll read his scumgame later today

Busy pretending to be a tourist because I live in a desirable part of the world and I'm moving to an icy hellscape in a few months.

This mafia game is also my life blog

Lycanfire · Fri May 03, 2024 7:17 am

Yknow that's not fair technically I'm only going from a rainforest to a boreal forest I'm just not looking forward to -20 degree weather

Lycanfire · Sun May 05, 2024 4:58 am

I read the ISO of random nurse (helps that it was small) there may be some differences

He did use the phrase "pissed off" about something rl. Unsure if this was real or fake anger being used as an excuse to be a lurksack.

I'm pretty sure there's only one scum remaining but I'll look for tells/crumbs.

Lycanfire · Sun May 05, 2024 5:03 am

I think Oblivion and Enchant are town through play and I don't care about meta much.

If random nurse isn't scum why is no one breaking away to vote him?

Not saying this is necessarily indicative that there's one scum between him and I but I feel like everyone wants some of Enchant or Oblivion.

Lycanfire · Sun May 05, 2024 5:04 am

To be fair Enchant consistently tries to tank his slots town through play perception of mine - please do better if town.

Lycanfire · Sun May 05, 2024 7:30 am

Hey Enchant I think you're capable of good posting, you've done some this game

You've also claimed scum a few times which isn't some 5D gambit. It's just a waste of time

Lycanfire · Sun May 05, 2024 7:37 am

Back to balance and 1 vs 2 scum,
I think three tries and you're out is fair to town. In this game, we would get four tries. That would poorly support my point.

Roles would hopefully give each side some play, and I think a good goal is gettinf a clear that has potential to reach melo.

This game only has the implication of a protective role. I don't see gypyx surviving. That should come at a cost.

Scum get counterplay by being able to free kill after solving the setup provided the homoes are dead. Town gets.... seemingly nothing worthwhile.

I think the bargain here is a 12:3 game. I think a traitor here would tip the game really hard, let alone a fourth groupscum.

Lycanfire · Sun May 05, 2024 7:39 am

I think Oblivion doesn't bus AND blow up at Ranger like how it did.

I dont think Titus buses when Ranger wanted to live. She would have helped houdini her out of trouble, some how. It would have been interesting enough to be more into the game.

I also like Titus' townslip

Lycanfire · Sun May 05, 2024 7:40 am

Out of the three people I'm not dead set town on random nurse had the worst vote onto Ranger. Worst one on geraintm too, but this day has been a gloat fest from him.

Lycanfire · Sun May 05, 2024 7:40 am

A townie probably should have paused when oblivion ick fake hammered not push that shit through

Lycanfire · Sun May 05, 2024 7:43 am

There could be cases countering my townreads on them. Psyche seems to agree generally on Titus, but mentioned she may have been ambivalent and not committed on the bus or not bus and the homies did quickhammer together.

As for oblivion, maybe they had a fight in scum chat? I just don't see this happening naturally as a team.

Lycanfire · Sun May 05, 2024 6:42 pm

Say meta again

Lycanfire · Mon May 06, 2024 6:06 am

Some meta for the meta enjoyer

In post 3132, Lycanfire wrote: I don't think Ranger was doomed. I've been in worse situations as scum:

myself LN218 scum pt wrote:Town's hurting themselves by not resolving any of the problems present. Why would we give them a scum l***h when they all blundered into an L-1 wagon? They don't deserve it. Fuck them.
Titus would have loved the challenge?

My scum partner reached 8 votes d1 in this game around this vc/above quote viewtopic.php?p=10744020&sid=529fa7d035 ... #p10744020

They were basically a newbie. We swept the town without a mafia loss. I had no respect for the town that game and I wouldn't have had any this game.

Lycanfire · Mon May 06, 2024 6:08 am

Still wondering what the ranger and geraintm triangulation says about who is scum

Random nurse is so lazy I can't see them as town.

Lycanfire · Mon May 06, 2024 9:08 am

Random m*rse

Lycanfire · Mon May 06, 2024 3:11 pm

That's just kinda how Kay is I feel. You're going to have a lot of bad reactions to her gut reads. Unique player.

Seems consistent across her games I think you need to look deeper than the clear view she seems to give into her head

That said welcome to the game

Lycanfire · Mon May 06, 2024 3:11 pm

I towncased her eod4 if you're interested

Lycanfire · Tue May 07, 2024 10:33 am

Hey if we could have a day that doesnt go to the last hour that would be great

Lycanfire · Tue May 07, 2024 10:33 am

It's entirely possible we'd have mopped this game up if we had more time d3 and pushed through geraintm.

Lycanfire · Tue May 07, 2024 2:28 pm

Doing some rereading as well

Liked Enchant's Geraintm vote as their counter

Psyche unvoted because of ick.

Random nurse proceeded to accuse Psyche and I of being scum

Hm

Lycanfire · Tue May 07, 2024 2:32 pm

In post 3515, Val89 wrote: I may come to regret throwing out thoughts before finishing reading, but to think the later half of page 62 into 63 suggests a RN Traitor to Kay's groupscum solve is just a bit
too
obvious to be correct, right?

That back and forth is actually hilarious but I don't see a traitor waiting to day 4 to communicate

Lycanfire · Tue May 07, 2024 2:32 pm

Wel day 3, same difference.

Lycanfire · Tue May 07, 2024 3:00 pm

In post 3174, Enchant wrote:
In post 3172, Random Nurse wrote: Congratulations you offended yourself.
Can you vote Gera

Based

Lycanfire · Tue May 07, 2024 3:03 pm

I think wake is just a lurksack in general. His recent history flaking as scum shouldn't define him here. Being overgamed is a thing. He can play scum if he plays.

Has he revealed who he was before this game?

Lycanfire · Tue May 07, 2024 3:10 pm

My thought came and went in the above post.

I was thinking about RN's kayfabe wrt Val's post but forgot to mention to Val that random nurse can act differently

Lycanfire · Wed May 08, 2024 2:23 am

I'm unsure of how much easier I can make the game for you

Lycanfire · Wed May 08, 2024 5:25 am

I liked their d4 more when I went through it again yesterday

I also liked oblivion more but I kept that quiet because I didn't want to dissaude val from efforting.

Strongly recommend rereading the game. It didn't take me long to do 59-113. I'd say little more than a distracted hour.

Lycanfire · Wed May 08, 2024 5:27 am

Also want to say that Kay and Psyche are lock to me. No false confidence.

Lycanfire · Wed May 08, 2024 5:32 am

I'll be up front and say oblivion is back to lock town to me. Read its frustration all the way up to the fake hammer. My only problem with oblivion was that vote, and most of my bad feelings were contained pre flip.

Lycanfire · Wed May 08, 2024 6:41 am

A reread is a lot easier. I've read this game ~a lot~

Every day from day 2.

but I'm not sure interrupting Gypyx while making such a big mistake about both himself and Gera, and being so vocal about it, would have been any sort of reasonable scumplay.

Refuge in audacity, hail mary, call it whatever. So bad it's good can't apply when there's a clear trend.

Lycanfire · Wed May 08, 2024 6:59 pm

In post 3552, Val89 wrote:
In post 3546, Lycanfire wrote: So bad it's good can't apply when there's a clear trend.
What clear trend was that?

The impression I got was that by D4; Gypyx, and by extension Thom, was convinced RN and Gera were obvtown, wouldn't be convinced otherwise, and I don't believe with the whole (potentially) remaining scumteam in that position they decided "let's bus another one while the remaining one picks a fight with the conftown-block" provided a better route to victory on the basis it was refuge in audacity over just taking that gift. I recognise they would have to deal with the "Wonder Twins" at some point anyhow before people started asking questions as to why they were still alive, but still.

If you are telling me I've picked up the wrong impression and the tide was potentially turning on a RN-Gera team, whom might have been in some trouble after my slot was flipped instead, then perhaps I can see the value in putting off Kay again to revisit that, but that was a pretty strong feeling I got from my read of D3.

Sorry, in what way did Geraintm and Random Nurse accuse each other day 3? Random Nurse sussed by Geraintm day 2 when Ranger was going down, and accused him of lurking 6 times day 3. There was no conflict.

What do you think of Random Nurse's day 1?

Lycanfire · Wed May 08, 2024 7:01 pm

In post 3307, Lycanfire wrote:[... lots of shitty RN posts ...]
In post 1252, Random Nurse wrote: Thoughts on geraintm at the moment?

*sips tea*
I remember thinking Gera was town but I don't really remember why I thought that if I'm being Completely honest, so I should probably reread him.

Yeah you should probably refresh your thoughts on that one.
[/quote]

did this go anywhere
[/quote]

He was so "pissed off" about how hard it was to find scum this game d4 - amazingly ignoring his d2 scumread while limp chainsawing for that same person.

Lycanfire · Wed May 08, 2024 7:03 pm

In post 3307, Lycanfire wrote:[... lots of shitty RN posts ...]
In post 1257, Random Nurse wrote:
In post 1255, Thomith wrote:
In post 1252, Random Nurse wrote: Thoughts on geraintm at the moment?

*sips tea*
I remember thinking Gera was town but I don't really remember why I thought that if I'm being Completely honest, so I should probably reread him.

Yeah you should probably refresh your thoughts on that one.
did this go anywhere

He was so "pissed off" about how hard it was to find scum this game d4 - amazingly ignoring his d2 scumread while limp chainsawing for that same person.

Fixed formatting.

Lycanfire · Wed May 08, 2024 7:07 pm

In post 3088, Random Nurse wrote: Geraintm, thoughts on joining a Lycan wagon?

In post 3096, Random Nurse wrote: This game kind of pisses me off.

USUALLY I can kind of sense who the Scums are, and I slowly start homing in on them. This go around I'm still not catching any slight signals. Usually there's a trace tell that catches my gut radar, but my gut just isn't catching anything. Still wouldn't surprise me if Thomith/Gypyx were Mafia Neighbors like Ranger, but no one wants to pull on that thread. Excluding those two I can't really sense who the Scum are, so they're playing much better than the usual Scum I've caught.

how does he ignore his d2 read so easily?

pretty reminiscent of geraintm's tell

In post 3060, Lycanfire wrote: Thoughts on the frustration of having no night actions? I never once felt this way.

In post 3072, Lycanfire wrote: Do you feel like, "feeling infuriated by the lack of night actions" is a real emotion a townie could have here, or is this fake?

Lycanfire · Wed May 08, 2024 7:07 pm

In post 1328, Random Nurse wrote: I have the sneaking suspicion that should Ranger flip Town I'll be the convenient scapegoat.

Again, never pushed Ranger.

Reminiscent of this tell by geraintm

In post 3060, Lycanfire wrote:Dissonance between admitting not having reads and claiming they want to draw a night kill is present. Why would anyone kill a slot that had a poe of more than half the players left. You'll live, and I don't think its from a lack of conviction.

These emotions are FAKE.

Lycanfire · Wed May 08, 2024 7:12 pm

In post 2675, geraintm wrote:i think Oblivion and Lycan look worse, Random Nurse looks fine, Psyche not as bad. But i think the odds of hitting scum among those 2 (+1) are pretty good and i'll write more on Oblivion and Lycan tomorrow and see what has occured in case either of them has done stuff that i should have remembered that was especially townie.

In post 2683, Lycanfire wrote: Why is random nurse fine

In post 2787, geraintm wrote:to me, their push on ranger on day 2 just doesn't feel like something scum would do. if they are scum, then this is the sort of thing that beats me in a game and i hold my hands up to it.

WHAT PUSH ON RANGER?

In post 2904, Lycanfire wrote:Hey can you show me what push they made? I'm having trouble finding it.

In post 2905, Lycanfire wrote: Yes this is why I've done literally nothing for a day out of the chance random nurse came in and called bullshit on their own.

In post 2906, Lycanfire wrote: My votes on Enchant in spirit until they show they're reading the game

VOTE: geraintm

In post 2909, Random Nurse wrote:
In post 2905, Lycanfire wrote: Yes this is why I've done literally nothing for a day out of the chance random nurse came in and called bullshit on their own.

Call bullshit on whom? You?

Why couldn't he agree with me? Self conscious scum wants to manipulate us into thinking he had a push onto Ranger. Just look at today. Just look at the yellow votes BRO. I was on Ranger BRO. I executed scum BRO.

Lycanfire · Wed May 08, 2024 7:16 pm

In post 3293, Random Nurse wrote: Triangulating Ranger and Geraintm should help narrow down the (hopefully) last Scum.

It's been 6 meatworld days since this post and we've only had meta shitposts from him.

This is coasting

Lycanfire · Wed May 08, 2024 7:24 pm

In post 3526, KayJayQueue wrote: Hmm. I’m trying to decide which one is town from these votes. I get Enchant’s vote because it’s exactly what I did last vote. I’m not sure about Val but I often find it counterproductive for rep-ins to read the last few pages of a game, decide they think someone is scum, vote them, and then read the game from the beginning with the outlook that someone is scum already and trying to validate that vote/read instead of just starting from the beginning and developing reads as the game progresses. But I could be wrong and that method might be successful sometimes but since the read is on me and it’s wrong, I don’t like it here.

I still think it could be either. I don’t know if I’m convinced about RN since I’m kind of used to his gameplay as town vs scum. This doesn’t feel like him as scum, I’d be really surprised if it was. He’s being much more vocal than in the games he was scum.

Thoughts on Random Nurse d1?

Lycanfire · Wed May 08, 2024 7:26 pm

Hey Random Nurse, who's scum?

Lycanfire · Wed May 08, 2024 7:27 pm

Val, we were near deadline end of day 4. He did it for cred, and I think hammering after your slots fake hammer SUCKED! he didn't so much as question the shitty frustration vote of your pred. There was no hard bus d4. He hopped on before someone else did (Enchant was previously on the wagon for instance). Even if we didn't eliminate geraintm d4, we would have today.

Lycanfire · Wed May 08, 2024 7:29 pm

My heart sank when I saw oblivion's hammer followed by the real one. random nurse didn't bat an eye and went for it. either he couldn't question how bad oblivion's hammer was because he knew it was town, or maybe he knew exactly how bad it looked and wanted to set it up today.

Lycanfire · Wed May 08, 2024 7:30 pm

In post 3572, Enchant wrote: I think we are stuck.

do you think this is indicative of scum already voting?

Lycanfire · Wed May 08, 2024 7:32 pm

I think you uniquely have a devil may care attitude

Lycanfire · Wed May 08, 2024 7:37 pm

In post 3570, Val89 wrote:"if there was a clear trend".

The "clear trend" was the clear trend of being so scummy, so often that it can't be good.

Random Nurse, Geraintm and Ranger pushed the same rhetoric d2.

"Dislike of townblocks/questioning of Thomith/Gypyx, why won't Thomith/gypyx vote each other"
"Not wanting to eliminate in the hood"

See my posts 3305 and 3311 where I score the focus of both Random Nurse and Geraintm, describe what they did (and didn't!) do and some key posts along the way.

Lycanfire · Wed May 08, 2024 7:43 pm

It was ~~possible~~ the wagon could have fallen apart and your slot could have met the axe instead, maybe, who knows. There was some time left - but I want to say the hours were in the teens or less. As I said today, a town elimination yesterday doesn't change the math with a geraintm lim today. Same number of townies need to be limmed for a scum win. It's WIFOM.

Lycanfire · Wed May 08, 2024 7:45 pm

Interested in peoples takes on random nurse's day 1.

Lycanfire · Wed May 08, 2024 7:50 pm

I'll look into Kay's responses tomorrow. Nearly midnight. Work at 6:45.

Lycanfire · Wed May 08, 2024 8:49 pm

In post 3570, Val89 wrote:Some clue as to what I am looking for might be helpful at this point though, since I didn't see anything particularly AI on the first go around.

I'm wondering if this is lurksack scum random nurse that the players townreading him believe isn't in the game.

What could be different - I don't know, just thinking he can pull one on us. By how the group acted d2 I'm sure they believed they found masons.

I did the same thing when I found masons before killing masons in 218. I tried to eliminate them in day phase simply because I thought I could.

Lycanfire · Wed May 08, 2024 8:51 pm

Pretty easy to post when you get dumped townreads for a crackpot agenda