Large Normal 247 - Postgame

[KayJayQueue]

it honestly could be both of them but

VOTE: geraintm

Damn it’s tempting to vote here but I feel like some of my motivation would be pettiness. But in all seriousness, I think I still feel stronger about Enchant(Titus). If Enchant flips red, I might have an opinion on another. (the other? hopefully)

If Enchant flips green, I think I need to take you much more seriously than I have been. It’s not that I’m not listening to you or valuing your opinion but I feel like we haven’t aligned much in the game. (definitely not me with Penguin)

I’m worried I’m going to be kept alive (it feels like a theme lately) because I’m so damn indecisive and I get extremely paranoid.


pedit: I spent too long writing this and now there’s no way I’m going to vote gera this day phase after that out of nowhere immediate Enchant vote whaaaat

[KayJayQueue]

I low key think Enchant trying to trick me/gypyx into scumslipping in the hood might just make them town is my only concern about this wagon?

Ughhhh I’m giving myself whiplash

[KayJayQueue]

gosh if it turned out to be gera/kay all along id feel amazing. but im not allowed to be happy therefore at least one of enchant or lycanfire has to be scum

Rude lol

[KayJayQueue]

Does it mean only town scumslips or what

This must be the answer

[KayJayQueue]

Still not convinced this is TvT but whatever

[KayJayQueue]

ok but if it's svs can i bus lycanfire instead of vice versa

Just wait…if we’re both alive next day phase I’m totally using this against you! (once I get paranoid enough that I was actually right all along)

[KayJayQueue]

right. paranoia. not opportunism. paranoia

You haven’t played with me as town for a full game. Just wait. You’ll wish you had a vig shot just to put me out of my misery from all the tinfoil shit I’m about to spew.

But I want it known, I have been right a couple times.

[KayJayQueue]

KAy's post 2760 seems opportunistic waiting

I probably wouldn’t spew my thoughts like that if my plan was to take advantage of a situation. Unless you just think I’m stupid lol

[KayJayQueue]

hmmmm. do i just dislike how gera plays? that's always the question in these games huh

Try having to work with him in the scum PT it’s like talking to a wall

I still can’t get over that that was my first game here lol

[KayJayQueue]

not saying they're scum just like, the sus isn't too warranted

also enchant latching so hard onto Lycan's perceived "slip" gives me big scum vibes

I just remind that next day is elo and RM (who probably just town) hates your guts.


So i suggest you to VERY CAREFULLY pick alies this game day.

Wait what? elo already? How many of us are there?

[KayJayQueue]

well, uh, next day *probably* isn't ELo given that we've established the setup should be 12:3

What are your thoughts on it possibly being 11:4 if one of them is a Traitor?

Enchant would be that traitor imo

Who was the first person to mention traitor in the hood btw? I forgot if you said earlier in the thread. Was it you/Thom or someone else?

[KayJayQueue]

well, uh, next day *probably* isn't ELo given that we've established the setup should be 12:3

What are your thoughts on it possibly being 11:4 if one of them is a Traitor?

Enchant would be that traitor imo

Who was the first person to mention traitor in the hood btw? I forgot if you said earlier in the thread. Was it you/Thom or someone else?

I was the first to bring up the idea of traitors.

I mentioned that the last 15p with a hood had a scum member and a traitor member.

Does that explain why we are all just vanilla outside of the hood? Did that game have PRs only in the hood? Should we assume Titus is something (not necessarily traitor) or is that dumb to think everyone in the hood has to be something. I would think it’s almost more of a liability to town to have all power in a small pool of players that might get limmed based on Poe/“has to be one of them right?”

[KayJayQueue]

What are you cooking Kay

I’m finally at the end of being extremely sick for the last week+, so now I can try to actually be useful. I’m trying to figure out what this setup could possibly be.

[KayJayQueue]

What in the world has it just read?

Which part?

[KayJayQueue]

Can it say all of it?

I’m not quite sure what it’s asking but anything it’s comfortable with is good with me.

[KayJayQueue]

actually ooooh got sidetracked gonna check out something

I hope it’s fun

[KayJayQueue]

yeah ok

that's just town gera

So you’re saying he’s just always annoying? lol

[KayJayQueue]

UNVOTE:

Hmm.

[KayJayQueue]

Because I don’t know what I want to do.

[KayJayQueue]

Because I don’t know what I want to do.

You want to sheep Gypix

I think I do, yeah. I’m starting to feel like it’s more obvious that you would be trolling than bad. But that paranoia probably doesn’t go away which I know will make me go a little crazy.

[KayJayQueue]

So….where is everyone’s head at?

I am less available from now-Sunday because of work but I feel like this vote will be important so I don’t want to be out of the loop during the last bit of day phase.

[KayJayQueue]

this thread is kinda depressing to look at

How can I make it better?

[KayJayQueue]

So where I’m at right now is I’m obviously not voting for Gypyx/Thom. I believe them, I townread them.

I also will not vote Lycan today, I feel better about him because of a few things but I’ll say the mass claim really helped.

I am open to the rest which gives me 5 options. I don’t like that I can’t really narrow it down. I think I’m most willing to vote in this order:

Oblivion/Enchant
Gera/RN
Psyche

So I probably won’t be voting Psyche today either. But I can’t tell if I’m just being fooled by his posting since repping in or not but it just feels town-motivated.

[KayJayQueue]

provide a take that improves town's understanding of who might be scum

I don’t know if my take will do that but yeah, I was working on a post when you said this lol

[KayJayQueue]

So, oblivion was arguably a major force pushing the ranger wagon over the finish line. How do you square that with your other stances on the slot?

I don’t think it’s so much the push that makes me feel weird because a hard push on scum would normally be a good thing, but the day after the flip when it is going around saying it is obvtown for the push and that we must listen to it’s solves and the forcefulness of it’s views thereafter. That part made me feel uneasy.

[KayJayQueue]

in general i wonder if you could review your idea of what went down on D2 because i wasn't there and didn't really scan timestamps and knew the outcome as i went

Honestly, it felt like Oblivion and I were on the same page D2 of letting Ranger catch up and giving her all the time she needed before making a decision (there were a ton of reasons why she kept needed more time which was honestly annoying but I really wanted to hear her reads) When Ranger claimed, that’s when we differed. Oblivion immediately saw through the claim and I did not and stayed skeptical about voting her because of it. Especially because after the claim, I was still waiting for her to go into detail about her reads not just the exhaustive lists with no context. I guess her unwillingness to expand should’ve tipped me off but the claim made me pause. She seemed like an experienced player and I was hoping for her insight because I thought it could help me with my reads if she saw something I didn’t.

[KayJayQueue]

okay. and just so i understand: how does the post flip stuff connect to a possible scum wincon for you?

Well if we locktown Oblivion for the Ranger push when it is actually scum, I feel like we’d lose in the end if it is there.

Unless I’m not understanding your question.

[KayJayQueue]

going around saying it is obvtown for the push and that we must listen to it’s solves and the forcefulness of it’s views thereafter

I'm asking why you think these behaviors in particular suggest a scum win condition. Why do you think oblivion would be less likely to say these things as town?

I don’t necessarily think it’s something only scum would do but I guess I find it hard to believe someone could be so confident they solved the game just because of one flip. And it was wrong about Naerys so it didn’t have the game solved. I think that’s what put me on an opposite side from
Oblivion. It was so certain Naerys was scum and I was certain she wasn’t. I had a strong townread on Naerys since day 1 and I really believed in it so when Obliviin kept pushing her, I really felt (inwardly) defensive since I was sure Naerys was town. If anything, made that’s what turned me off of oblivion more than anything.

The problem is, town can be wrong too and it doesn’t mean scum was pushing a mislim. It could be town that’s wrong after being very right about another slot. But I have to decide which one I think it is and my options are slim so right now I’m leaning scum.

[KayJayQueue]

I’m not saying town can’t be wrong. I don’t know what else you want me to say. Well I guess I do, you want me to agree with your reads. I don’t feel good about Oblivion but I don’t have strong reads on others. Gera and RN - I have no idea how to sort them. I know gera has votes but i don’t even know if I fully understand why. I’d love to figure these two slots out but I can’t. Whereas I have reasons, however much you disagree with them, for feeling wary of Oblivion and Enchant, so that’s why they’d be my top choices to vote today.

[KayJayQueue]

if i do flip today maybe it'll provide a useful lesson about basing votes on vague idk feels

So I’m assuming based on your vote that you prefer a gera flip, can you sell me on this since I’m finding it difficult to read him?

[KayJayQueue]

gera's summary of the difference between kjq's play in this game and her scum game with us is mostly accurate imo. she's mainly more confident in some key reads (e.g., naeyrs) but otherwise seems to post and play kind of similarly.

Have you looked at any town games of mine? I feel like that may be a more useful comparison. (Except the one I just lost, we don’t need to relive that again)

[KayJayQueue]

Hmm now that you say that, I think I do find it weird he wasn’t on board with the Ranger vote. Like, I get that I’m flip floppy and indecisive and paranoid but I don’t think he is. He’s much more likely to have voted Ranger, probably even out of annoyance because that day phase was…a lot, than not. So maybe this is indicative of something. Either that or I’m seeing what I want to.

[KayJayQueue]

31 hours to deadline

I never would’ve believed this if you told me day 1, but I think you’re one of my strongest townreads now lol

What do you think is the best course of action at this point? I feel like if you, Gypyx and Thom are all on the same page, I’ll feel really good about our decision. If not, I’ll have to see what feels best.

[KayJayQueue]

above post is a little off

Why? Because you’re desperately looking for a reason to think I’m bad? Lycan has put forth a ton of effort in his recent posts and it feels very town on top of me already feeling better about him after our mass claim. Why do you think it would be off for me to want to hear his opinion for what we should do today?

[KayJayQueue]

31 hours to deadline

I never would’ve believed this if you told me day 1, but I think you’re one of my strongest townreads now lol

What do you think is the best course of action at this point? I feel like if you, Gypyx and Thom are all on the same page, I’ll feel really good about our decision. If not, I’ll have to see what feels best.

There's two ways forward
1) we find scum
2) we can agree to townread 7 people and do this coalition style.

There's problems with option 2. For starters, we need very good reasons to believe each person is town. It can't just be a feeling. Each person needs to have been decided through setup and play to be unlikely to be scum. The other problem is that if we can decide on 7 towns, that means we should know who is scum, and we should be able to then pick them apart. This should bring us back to path #1.

Finding scum is ideal but I can’t confidently say I know which 7 players are town. I’m confident in 4 including myself. You say we need reasons why everyone is town, do we start making a list? And what exactly do you mean through “setup”, I get play but not sure on setup on determining what is unlikely.

And just one final piece of paranoia - are we certain it’s only 2 scum we are looking for? I’ve been kinda assuming it’s only 2 left but I’ll never fully feel like I know for sure unless we flip 2 scum and win. I won’t dwell on it though, I guess we just cross that bridge if we come to it.

[KayJayQueue]

Zzz dead game zzz 1 day until deadline zzz

I don’t think it’s dead but I do need to sleep for the next 4 1/2 hours before getting up for work and I know that’s when people usually post here because timezones. I’ll be back after I’m awake and coherent enough to think about the game.

[KayJayQueue]

Zzz dead game zzz 1 day until deadline zzz

I don’t think it’s dead but I do need to sleep for the next 4 1/2 hours

suspicious only mafia walks at nights and sleeps at day

Do you think it’s day for me or night? lol

Sadly the only thing suspicious and unfortunate is that I work really long hours on Fridays-Sundays and only get 4-5 hours of sleep those nights. Including tonight. Good night

[KayJayQueue]

31 hours to deadline

I never would’ve believed this if you told me day 1, but I think you’re one of my strongest townreads now lol

What do you think is the best course of action at this point? I feel like if you, Gypyx and Thom are all on the same page, I’ll feel really good about our decision. If not, I’ll have to see what feels best.

and if you're reading his posts and gypyx/thomith's posts it should be clear that the group is not at all on the same page about who are even plausible lim candidates. lycanfire has mostly narrowed to rn/gera and gypyx had kay/oblivion before deciding i'm scummier than both of these.

the fact of this transparency of the answer to kay's question puts me off because it raises the possibility that the post is performative, just there to look like kay is trying to find a good vote.

I think maybe I just worded it wrong. I meant if those three could GET on the same page. I’ve barely heard from Thom recently and I feel like his input could be crucial. That’s why I was asking about best course of action since while Lycan is currently voting, our voting as a whole is disjointed and he expressed wanting everyone to come to a consensus (at least it seemed that way) so I asked what he thought would be best.

[KayJayQueue]

Well I don’t think I’ll be sheeping that one lol

[KayJayQueue]

sorry been ot of the day.

find three of the people i have sus are voting me, strongly suspect some town are being manipulated into my elimination

VOTE: lycan as a place holder till later because someone who has been pushing me is scum

Well it’s not him imo. I don’t like this vote.

[KayJayQueue]

If it’s between Gera and Lycan (because I’m obviously not voting myself), I’m going to stick with my gut that Lycan is town.

VOTE: gera

[KayJayQueue]

If it’s between Gera and Lycan (because I’m obviously not voting myself), I’m going to stick with my gut that Lycan is town.

VOTE: gera

Sorry I forgot to say E-1 but at this point we’ve all claimed so I didn’t really think about it.

[KayJayQueue]

It would kill KayJay Titus RN Gera today.

why this order? don't think ive seen you talk about the relative scumminess of these slots

It has scumread me since the Ranger flip. Maybe It hasn’t gone into a ton of detail but I know I’ve been in It’s solve since day 3. I think a lot of the reason has to do with me not voting Ranger and then subsequently not doing enough to be townread by it. I don’t know how to prove myself though.

[KayJayQueue]

I feel pretty powerless at this point, I’m not really sure what I can do to help people see that I’m town. Are there any questions I can answer or a case against me I can defend? I don’t want to be mislimmed but I don’t have a strong case to push gera and I refuse to push Lycan because if someone is going to be limmed, I think it hurts town more to lose him since I think he has a better grasp of the game state than I do. I think it’s a mistake to vote me out instead of someone in the {Gera, enchant, oblivion, RN, psyche} group but I don’t know what I can do to move the momentum in a different direction.

[KayJayQueue]

My most recent game:

viewtopic.php?t=92448

[KayJayQueue]

How do you feel about Geraint accusing his wagon and being okay with Gypyx and Oblivion starting a new wagon? Do you feel like he should have interfered based off that game you were scum together?

I think it makes sense to accuse those(as in, at least one) voting you of being scum in a situation where I feel like we mostly all believe there are two confirmed town so options are limited. Honestly, I think of the 3 players voting me currently, it’d be crazy not to think at least one of Oblivion/Enchant is scum since I trust Gypyx as town. I don’t fully understand her reasoning for voting for me yet but I don’t think the wagon on me is pure. However, I don’t think Gypyx is the issue.

As it relates to gera, I don’t see a reason for him to interfere with a counter wagon if it’s going to save him. Unless he strongly townreads me, why would he stick his neck out for me if his head is on the chopping block? I’d do the same, in fact, I started getting votes and reacted defensively by voting the biggest wagon at the time which was gera. I don’t think this is indicative of scum in gera’s case because I literally did the same thing.

I feel like him and I don’t necessarily scumread each other but because of the game we played together, I don’t think we’re too fond of each other or each other’s playstyle. We really did not enjoy our previous game together whatsoever but I don’t want to let that influence how I read him in this game. I think the other issue is that because we were scum together, we don’t actually know how to read each other as town. He’s in my lim pool but not my preference. I voted for him because if it’s between him or me, I know I’m town so I’m obviously saving myself if I can. I don’t know what gera is but I know there’s a 1 in 5 chance (based off my own reads) that he’s scum so why would I roll over and die instead of vote him? I think his situation probably boils down to the same thing IF he’s town which is why I’m using myself as an example for similar behavior.

[KayJayQueue]

It can't fathom how anyone can see it as scum after it literally handed you scum on a platter day 2.

This just feels like it’s taking way too much credit for what happened day 2.

[KayJayQueue]

Kay is just way too aloof about being under suspicion

I’m aloof? I don’t see how lol

[KayJayQueue]

You could have argued for yourself a lot better Kay. When push came to shove you didn't lean on how you treated Ranger d2, when you could have "aha!"ed us.

As Penguin said (can’t remember if ut was this game of the one that just finished) actions matter more than words. I didn’t think it mattered what I said about how I was “feeling” day 2 because in the end, I didn’t vote for scum. I’m pretty sure that was Oblivion’s case against me. How do I argue against that when I can’t prove how I was feeling or thinking? I thought it’d be worse for me because in a previous game of mine I got admonished for being TOO defensive as town. So I don’t know what the right thing to do is. Defend myself? Don’t? I keep trying to implement what I learn from finished games but I guess it’s not working.

[KayJayQueue]

And I have a feeling the finger is going to be pointed at me once again for voting in the wrong place. But no one wanted to vote either of the two players I felt strongest about. For me it was either vote gera or wait to be limmed myself. I’m sorry gypyx, I felt backed into a corner at the end of the day here. Ugh this is so frustrating.

[KayJayQueue]

Also town flip incoming, i mean, 3 conftown are out of wagon, what could possibly go wrong?

Pfft? Another bus?

Who is the 3rd?

[KayJayQueue]

is admittedly unlikely but i dont think kay should be ruled out per se
ive towncased her pretty nearly the exact same way in the game she was scum in

I’ll never live that game down lol

[KayJayQueue]

If this flips town i expect to be sheeped tommorow, thanks

I would’ve sheeped you today if you didn’t vote me lol

[KayJayQueue]

Btw where is Thom? Even with V/LA isn’t there a limit on how long you can not post? I feel like he’s been a ghost for days.

[KayJayQueue]

This game is lost regardless.

This feels defeatist for no good reason.

I can’t tell if the apathy coming from Oblivion is town frustration or faked town frustration.

[KayJayQueue]

Okay now that Gypyx is confirmed, I’d like to hear new opinions from RN and Oblivion as they were most skeptical of Thom/Gypyx. Now that the skepticism is gone, what are your reads on the remaining players?

I do think Enchant would vote gera if they were teamed. So he’s gone down slightly on my priority list. @Gypyx, I’d still like your opinion on Enchant as of right now (if anything has changed) because you have the hood as well. If you think he’s probably town, I want to trust that for now and focus elsewhere.

I think I want to go back through the mod ISO to see if anything jumps out voting wise now that we have two scum flipped.

[KayJayQueue]

surprise!

oh damn we wasted the good surprise

[KayJayQueue]

It's kinda funny. Scum were probably in their bunker laughing at how stupid they think RN is, but I've now helped take out 2 of them.

I still suspect there *could* be 2 left, but hopefully it's just 1.

You are so bad for my paranoia lol

[KayJayQueue]

It's kinda funny. Scum were probably in their bunker laughing at how stupid they think RN is, but I've now helped take out 2 of them.

I still suspect there *could* be 2 left, but hopefully it's just 1.

You are so bad for my paranoia lol

You SHOULD be paranoid.

Oh I already am. I live in a constant state of it. But you exacerbate it! I’m sure it’s necessary but still lol the fact that I can’t just be happy that (I think*) we only have to find 1 more…ahh frustrating. I just want to win after my last game ended by blowing up in my face.

[KayJayQueue]

That being said - do you have updated reads now that Gypyx is clear? Any ideas on who might’ve been teamed with gera/Dave-Ranger?

[KayJayQueue]

People with serious faces say "now gypix conftown" is like something which sends me in laughter, yet no one wonders why out of pair mafia killed thomith first.

What’s funny about it? It’s just stating information that we got confirmed. Why do you think Thom was targeted first? Is there a theory?

[KayJayQueue]

Triangulating Ranger and Geraintm should help narrow down the (hopefully) last Scum.

How do we go about doing it? I’m happy to reread to try to find useful information but I might need to be directed on what specifically to look for. Am I looking at their interactions with each other or both of them with each player left? Or is it about voting history?

[KayJayQueue]

I’m going to have a really busy work weekend starting today but I’ll check in as much as possible.

My current townread aside from Gypyx is Lycan.

[KayJayQueue]

there's really a non-negligible i bussed gera?

What do you mean?

[KayJayQueue]

there's really a non-negligible i bussed gera?

What do you mean?

why can't you townread me even after the gera flip?

I’m trying lol

[KayJayQueue]

I am not really interested in this.


From my pov i need to find 2 townies. Then assuming i am not executed, we win.
From your pov statistic is same. If you assume me as town then you really only need to know 1 townie to win while executing everyone else.


So let's just today agree on two players who are "totally town" and execute everyone BUT them, eh.

It thinks you need to find 3 townies because you aren't someone it feels comfortable living to endgame.

Thanks for your opinion it will be disregarded.

Ah yes, the classic conversation in which you tell IT that it will be disregarded, then when it tells you it doesn't actually care what your stance is because it would rather kill you and is selling this to others, you complain about not being talked to or interacted with how YOU want.

You didn't talk to it. You dismissed it out of hand and now get upset when it does the same to you.

I think he meant the opinion would be disregarded, I don’t think the statement was personal. That’s how I interpreted what he said, I could be wrong.

[KayJayQueue]

in fact, i find it a little sus that she doesn't!
of course you get a pass

I’m just feeling paranoid sorry. If it helps I’ve currently got you after Gypyx and Lycan in my mind and I’m not planning on voting you. (or them)

[KayJayQueue]

sry it doesn’t. in fact as early as last night i was like “if she doesn’t townlock me after all this she’s probably mafia”. alas kay alas

I guess I don’t understand this

[KayJayQueue]

now we just need kay to scumread gypyx to complete the chain

So when I said I townread her, I was clearly just trying to pocket her. She’s pure scum, let’s send it.

[KayJayQueue]

My lim preferences: Enchant, Oblivion

I am conflicted about RN. I trust Lycan but I don’t know how much I vibe with the RN push. I just can’t really see RN playing scum this way but then again, I didn’t think he was scum last game and he was. So this is where my paranoia/second-guesding drives me crazy.

[KayJayQueue]

oooh link me that RN scum game

It’s actually a two-for-one where Enchant replaced in for him and I lost the game at final 3.

viewtopic.php?t=92448

[KayJayQueue]

Hm.

Starting ti Townread Psyche and Kay more. Maybe Psych is just difficult Town Psych. Would like to see Kay engage more, still.

I don’t think I’d be comfortable with any lim outside of Oblivion or Enchant currently. I feel the rest are town, at this moment. I just don’t really like how Oblivion has been playing since the Ranger business. Titus has given me weird vibes. (but I’ve admitted elsewhere that for some reason I am prone to feel Titus is scummy and I’m not sure if it’s just playstyle, and I’ve been wrong each time) Enchant is extremely hard for me to read though, he’s someone that will probably always confuse me because of how he approaches games. But I can say, he hasn’t made me think he’s town whatsoever so I can’t ignore my feeling on that just because I don’t want to be wrong.

So currently, that’s where I am as far as today goes and where I plan on voting.

[KayJayQueue]

Gut's still pinging as if there's 2 left, not 1.

Just a really subtle feeling I can't describe too well at the moment.

If there’s two people still paired, does anyone jump out at you as possibly operating with a partner?

Ugh I hate this timeline if there’s actually 2. I’m going to not let it be my main focus. I’m just trying to find the last one. If the game continues after that, well then I guess I can panic.

[KayJayQueue]

Also, Thomith was killed over Gypyx in the thoughts that Gypyx may continue to tunnel it, is its opinion.

I’m trying to think of reasons Thomith was killed instead of Gypyx. This might be one. Yes, she was wrong on her gera read, but that seems like a flimsy reason not to kill the more active of the two. Thomith was gone for so long I’ve honestly forgotten where he stood with his reads so I can’t tell if the kill was moreso to remove Thomith or to keep Gypyx.

I don’t know if this matters enough to spend time debating it or not, it could just be another distraction. And I’m prone to focusing on distractions.

[KayJayQueue]

I think Oblivion and Enchant are town through play and I don't care about meta much.

If random nurse isn't scum why is no one breaking away to vote him?

Not saying this is necessarily indicative that there's one scum between him and I but I feel like everyone wants some of Enchant or Oblivion.

I’m one of those people that wants to vote Enchant or Oblivion. I can’t townread them like you seem to be able to and I don’t know what I’m missing if you’re certain they’re town. But moreso I have better reads on everyone else. Give me a good case for them so I can see what you’re seeing, please, if you really feel strongly that we’d be wrong on both/either.

[KayJayQueue]

I'm open to either Lycan or Enchant today.

I would prefer Enchant between those two. I really don’t see the case for scum!Lycan at this point in the game, but I’m open to listening to other opinions or reasonings.

I might have a slightly narrowed perspective based off how I

feel

about how people are playing rather than what their actions could indicate. I’m really trying to catch something that would help me with PoE but I am finding this game extremely difficult. I was wrong about gera, I really didn’t see the scumminess and I only voted him because I was the other option. The only thing I was confidently right about was naerys as town and I don’t think that really does much for me when I’m trying to find the last scum. (hopefully not 2)

[KayJayQueue]

Maybe a new perspective on the Oblivion slot will help me sort it better.

For now, I think this is the best option.

VOTE: Enchant

[KayJayQueue]

Ugh I didn’t realize my vote was E-1 with a replacement coming in.

UNVOTE:

[KayJayQueue]

Update us when you’ve gotten more of the game read, Val. I’d like to hear your opinions on previous flips, votes, interactions, etc. And once you’re fully caught up, I’d like an updated read on where things are currently. Your slot is one I’m not feeling great about so any and all info you can provide that can help sort you would be really appreciated.

That being said, I am still leaning towards an Enchant vote and only unvoted to avoid a hammer before the rep-in was caught up.

[KayJayQueue]

Not really lol but if you do have a town read on the Titus-slot I would like to hear that and what pinged for you there since that’s where I see my vote going currently.

[KayJayQueue]

actually the nightmare scenario of Kay being scum with gera again would be so fucking funny lol

That would have been literal torture lol

[KayJayQueue]

Hmm. I’m trying to decide which one is town from these votes. I get Enchant’s vote because it’s exactly what I did last vote. I’m not sure about Val but I often find it counterproductive for rep-ins to read the last few pages of a game, decide they think someone is scum, vote them, and then read the game from the beginning with the outlook that someone is scum already and trying to validate that vote/read instead of just starting from the beginning and developing reads as the game progresses. But I could be wrong and that method might be successful sometimes but since the read is on me and it’s wrong, I don’t like it here.

I still think it could be either. I don’t know if I’m convinced about RN since I’m kind of used to his gameplay as town vs scum. This doesn’t feel like him as scum, I’d be really surprised if it was. He’s being much more vocal than in the games he was scum.

[KayJayQueue]

I am going to leave my vote where it is in the, perhaps vain, hope it might prompt something more than "Enchant and Val maybe bad, anyone wanna bite?"; but consider that my expression that I would prefer you don't actually hammer her just yet, thank you very much.

If you think I’m trying to get people to “bite” you’re wrong, this has been my stance for multiple day phases at this point. I trust Lycan most (besides Gypyx being confirmed) that’s why I’ve been giving my opinion on RN because he thinks it’s him and I don’t. I wish we were seeing eye to eye but we aren’t.

[KayJayQueue]

wow!

So where’s your head at right now?

[KayJayQueue]

I’m definitely in the wrong timezone for this game. I’m never awake for the 5-page real time posting.

[KayJayQueue]

I don’t really know how to show those voting for me that I’m town. Is there anything I can do?

[KayJayQueue]

My stance in the game has been Enchant or you (your slot) for awhile, even before you repped in. So you seem to be insinuating I am using my stance so I can push you tomorrow? I already voted Enchant this day phase and only unvoted to avoid a hammer before you could catch up. If I just wanted someone eliminated, I could have left my vote there. It feels like you (and Enchant) are voting me because I don’t feel good about you, I get it but also, it feels like we’re stuck in this cycle. It also feels like since I was the only one saying your slots name that it was easy to position yourself against me in your catch up. I just think you read through the game with a bias you were trying to prove and this is what it’s led to. If you’re wanting me to towncase LF or RN the way Lycan does town cases, I can tell you it’s not going to happen before the deadline is up for today. I don’t have the time to do that currently.

[KayJayQueue]

Kay did you play any other games before this one excluding the past one we were in?

Yes but they were mostly all micro so they went much faster.

[KayJayQueue]

I am saying that, from my point of view, me and enchant is a stance that maximizes scum!Kay chances. I don't suggest it's not been a

consistent

stance, and I'm not even asking you to change it - I know I would probably be wasting my breath if you were either alignment.

But you asked how you could show those voting you (currently, me, enchant and gypyx) that you were town. Obviously there isn't any one thing to show you were town, but my answer to how you could show yourself

more likley

town is to do something that makes it harder for scum!Kay to win.

I know there is time pressure and that could well be genuine, but then to refuse to do so....well, I can't help but think the question was not a genuine appeal. How about not a Lycan style town, but just

anything

to justify why you think each is town that might make it harder for you to change your position tomorrow?

My position on Lycan is not changing, until Thom/Gypyx were confirmed, he was my strongest townread. I see no way he is scum from how he’s played since about the time Psyche repped in. I’ve never seen scum put as much effort into solving as he has. If someone wants to link me a scum game of his showing him doing this same thing as scum MAYBE I’d reconsider. But it’d have to be incredibly compelling.

RN is based a lot more off of meta and how active and vocal he has been in this game. (moreso in the later stages of it but the reasoning is the same) I’ve played with town RN and scum RN. Town RN was confident in his pushes even when wrong, and I feel like that resonates a lot with his play in this game. RN was outspoken in his reads this game, especially regarding Thom/Gypyx. If he was scum knowing that they’d eventually be hard cleared, why would he position himself so hard against them? He was the only one really pushing against them especially after snow was gone, and to me, that feels very much like town!RN.

I think Lycan-RN is TvT and since they’re busy with each other, I am now the push either led by or joined by scum. Gypyx is confirmed town. If Psyche was scum, I think he’d have enough of a reason to hammer me and not have much backlash tomorrow. This is why I feel like it has to be you or Enchant.

[KayJayQueue]

I reviewed Kay's day 1. I don't think the flip comment is an inconsistency, because she initially answers Willow and is told by Oblivion to give a different answer.

Come again? Here is the whole exchange for reference:

If you had a button to eliminate any player this second without ending the day, and they would flip, who would you choose?

My actual answer to that is incredibly biased and probably unfair so for the sake of the game, I’d say Will’o.

It does not want your political answer, it wants your actual answer.

NotAScum

"I don't want to give my reason answer, so here is a second-choice"; "No, what is your real answer?"; "NAS". Pretty clear to me. She wasn't told to give a second answer, she was told to give her REAL answer, since she was explicit her first response wasn't.

Even if I give your words the most generous interpretation that I can - that you actually believe Willow was her top choice and NAS was a forced-out of her second choice, that would STILL raise an eyebrow when a few days later and the leading wagons are the D1 mislim, and a known scum, and that person then said "I don’t really have an opinion either way on Dave vs NAS"

The fact that you tell me you've gone back and read all this decided "she initially answers Willow and is told by Oblivion to give a different answer" is your response is just straight-up

W I L D

to me.

I don’t think you understand the backstory of me and NAS and that my reasoning for not wanting him in the game was biased and personal and I was trying to not be that person. It’s why when he claimed VT, I decided I’d rather have the other claimed VT limmed instead because I thought it would yield more info. (I’m glad it didn’t go through because NAS would’ve probably just been limmed the next day or so because of how he plays) Oblivion pushing me for an answer after I already answered because it want good enough for it, with no follow up, to me was extremely weird and it felt like I was just being set up at that point. And here it’s being used against me, by the same slot. I had no idea what to do D1, I didn’t have any strong reads and was just going off of vibes and some meta, not that it was good. I didn’t understand the Snow wagon, I didn’t understand the Dave wagon, and I didn’t think there was any good options and unfortunately, NAS barely plays so I looked there. I didn’t really like how Wll’o was playing but didn’t think it was a vote that would go through. I moved my vote for the reason I already stated. It may not make sense to you but it did to me.

[KayJayQueue]

Kay is there any way I can convince you to vote Lycan?

I don't trust him.

I trust him. I don’t feel comfortable voting him. I think you know that too since I haven’t been coy about my reads lol

[KayJayQueue]

This is such a mess lol

[KayJayQueue]

Kay. I can't be any more explicit than I am being now. Record your reasons other than "he didn't hammer me" for town reading pysche for prosperity, and my vote will come off you.

I don’t negotiate with terrorists lol

Why would I do anything you ask (demand, really) when you’re opening telling others and asking them to help you trap me or pin me down or whatever it is you’re trying to do. Nothing I say will make you rethink your scumread on me. All you’re doing is fishing for things to use against me if whoever we lim today isn’t scum (and/or if you are scum) and you need more reasoning to try to get the vote on me again the next day.

You are someone I believe could be scum, why am I going to try to appease you of all people when it feels like this is just your strategy to get me limmed?

[KayJayQueue]

not to shit talk on her game

Everyone knows I suck as both town and scum, shit talk all you want

[KayJayQueue]

I've taken a lesson from the LycanFire school of scum hunting. I've found town. Enchant and Psyche.

You asked me to towncase Lycan and RN. Your turn! Give us your towncases for Enchant and Psyche. Seems fair enough.

[KayJayQueue]

VAL

Where's the posts? Did they exist?

How much of the game have you read?

This is getting a bit much. I trust you as town but you’re getting a little crazy lol give him a minute to post if he’s saying he’s going to post. I dunno. I don’t want this game to be hostile.

[KayJayQueue]

Would have been a bus ebwop in the context of val not thinking random nurse would have bussed geraintm

Sorry to ask but what is enwop?

[KayJayQueue]

Thank you

[KayJayQueue]

not to shit talk on her game

Everyone knows I suck as both town and scum, shit talk all you want

um this is false. you are not sucky as scum

Well maybe it just felt sucky because that game was a lot for my first game ever lol I felt like I was doing terribly the entire time.

[KayJayQueue]

still a weird post to make given how many times i've repeated paranoia about your scumskill

I wasn’t thinking about your opinion, I was just thinking about how I feel I play, which is badly. As either alignment. Even if you think I have skill, I don’t see it that way. All you’ve done is put a spotlight on my low self-esteem lol

[KayJayQueue]

What is Val's case? Broad argument seems to be that her D1 trajectory seems faked.

In post 171, Kay asks for Titus (who is now Enchant) to expand on reasoning for two out of four slots mentioned in that post. These two slots were the two town among those slots.
Rationale is that kay was trying to guide attention toward those first two slots.
I guess I need a good understanding of the context of that post to decide if I agree that the post is scummy.
Hmm. On the one hand, it's reasonable that Kay didn't ask for a dave elaboration; there were a lot of votes on that slot and the scumcase for him was public information.
On the other, she should have been more interested in the gera call-out since there'd been little to no prior discussion of gera up to then.
So sure this is not an underbaked take. 171 is odd.

In post 334, Kay explains her reasons for opposing the Naeyrs wagon. Kay says "the reasons that people were sussing/voting her were things that I did as well". Val finds this overly defensive. Val also maybe finds it a bit contrived; there were reasons people provided for voting Naeyrs that could not have possibly applied to kayjayqueue (e.g., Titus, whose read explanation kay directly solicited). This is actually a really interesting observation. It's potentially worth digging into the other votes for Naeyrs (especially the ones more recent relative to 334) so that I can get a clear idea of which votes should have been most salient for kay then.

Next in posts 446, 457, 608, kay sort of walks around voting for dave (according to val) instead of committing. She also ditches the NAS wagon that she was originally excited for without really ever following up engagement on it. Instead she sat on her unserious JV vote.

I asked for snow and Naerys because I thought they were likely town at that point and wanted to know if I’d missed something. I was more interested in reasoning for those I had a read on over those I didn’t: gera, Dave.

I townread Naerys in general not just because we did the same thing early D1. I didn’t feel the need to elaborate my read immediately but I know I did at multiple points.

I did not sit on the Jackson vote, I moved it to Will’o and my reasoning has been explained for that as well. Both Will’o and NAS claimed VT and I thought of the two, Will’o would give us more info on a flip as they had more interactions the first day. Plus I didn’t want to get NAS eliminated just because I dislike his playstyle and was still annoyed from the previous game. I no longer wanted to be the person to do that, his claim made me rethink what I was doing and why.

[KayJayQueue]

If no one has an Enchant town-case, I still prefer the Enchant vote. Val has come at me hard, and it makes me even more uneasy about that slot than I already was, but I think I really do prefer Enchant here. There’s just so much I feel like I’m missing to think the slot is town. Anyone locktowning him should explain why because I’m not seeing it and I feel like I’ll always be paranoid of this slot.

[KayJayQueue]

VOTE: Enchant

I meant to add it to the bottom of my previous post but apparently the gummies have kicked in.

[KayJayQueue]

There's a lot to dislike Enchant for, but I've felt towniness from them too once you ignore the roleplay as survivor/mafia. They seem like limbait, and my eyes will roll when they flip town.

And if he flips town, I’ll feel stupid because that’s yet again that I feel off vibes from Titus and let it color my view all game. Enchant repping in didn’t help though, I think if the slot is town, a different rep-in might have made that clear for me and I’ll have to just admit Enchant is impossible for me to read. He got me last game, maybe that’s still affecting me and making me worried about him fooling me again. But hopefully this is right.

[KayJayQueue]

Snow didn't claim tho

I’d feel better if Gypyx confirmed this. I feel like if you were scum, you wouldn’t tell us if he had.

[KayJayQueue]

Good morning lol

[KayJayQueue]

I’m just happy I won’t be dealing with elo lol

[KayJayQueue]

That was a shitty wagon

They just fear my amazing scum game!

[KayJayQueue]

Psyche is town. Lycan is town. RN is town.

Everyone is town.

[KayJayQueue]

i think kay is saying she really was scum all along

I know how badly you want it lol

[KayJayQueue]

Good game, I can breathe now.

[KayJayQueue]

poor kay lol

i'm gonna be real kay, if you spent less time rambling about your scumgame i probably would've went for someone else, like, i just never really put it into words but that was kinda a sign you were thinking about this game from a scum PoV

I don’t think rambled too much but oh well. I wasn’t going to make it through 3 eliminations either way lol

[KayJayQueue]

I carried

I carried…your body into a grave night 1.

[KayJayQueue]

I’d like to thank Lycan for defending more than I could defend myself. It felt really good but really bad since I wasn’t good lol

[KayJayQueue]

poor kay lol

i'm gonna be real kay, if you spent less time rambling about your scumgame i probably would've went for someone else, like, i just never really put it into words but that was kinda a sign you were thinking about this game from a scum PoV

I don’t think rambled too much but oh well. I wasn’t going to make it through 3 eliminations either way lol

just look at your ISO and see how many times you mention your scum meta

now look at one of your towngames and see how often it comes up

Okay I get it, I lost the entire game yet again. I suck. This is why I feel like it’s common knowledge.

[KayJayQueue]

Scumteam looks good in scumchat

Just lacked in directing the days

We were not good lol

[KayJayQueue]

I can’t handle being scum

[KayJayQueue]

hey, just saying, but if y'all liked the mountanious feeling there might be a white flag game that's missing just one player

Please please join up!

[KayJayQueue]

Good game everyone.

Thanks for modding, Alianna and biancospino.

Kay, I have personally been on the receiving end of a replace-in who comes in and starts hard pushing you as scum; so, I definitely understand the frustration. I am very sorry, it does feel a little bit like cheating sometimes, but I suppose replacements are a necessary evil in long-form games, however much we all wish it wasn't.

No worries, you just sped up the inevitable. Good game (:

[KayJayQueue]

I fumbled into killing all 3 Scum.

Feels good man.

You did it! MVP!

[KayJayQueue]

lately i kind of miss themes. id like a themed open setup

Maybe we can be town together lol

[KayJayQueue]

I think Lycan is a good player, especially as Town.

Naturally we both were scrapping as Town.

Unfortunately, I wish you two had been more on the same page. The page where I’m town, obviously lol

[KayJayQueue]

I think Lycan is a good player, especially as Town.

Naturally we both were scrapping as Town.

Unfortunately, I wish you two had been more on the same page. The page where I’m town, obviously lol

Did I make any of you nervous?

It was a supreme struggle trying to find time to play—at work most of the time and having to dodge management.

You always make me nervous lol

[KayJayQueue]

I think Lycan is a good player, especially as Town.

Naturally we both were scrapping as Town.

Unfortunately, I wish you two had been more on the same page. The page where I’m town, obviously lol

Did I make any of you nervous?

It was a supreme struggle trying to find time to play—at work most of the time and having to dodge management.

You always make me nervous lol

If I was in, say, a spanse of having 3 nights off I become a literal nightmare for Scum, because now I have time to relax and focus on prying apart the game with sheer analytical power.

I really hope I’m town next time this happens lol