NY 154: Return to Boring Town - Game Over


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Post Post #102 (isolation #0) » Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:17 pm

Post by McStab »

In post 86, Salamence20 wrote:
In post 85, VisceraEyes wrote:Fearmonger moar plx.

1) 1 vote does not a lynch make
2) 1 mislynch after D1 sum lynch and pro sum vig shot is not town loss.

gg no re


Your willing to kill me because of a mistake and
that i was planning to lynch you?


Lol.

No, i thought you maybe up to something with your cryptic post, and i asked emp on his opinions.

Your reasons for voting is shit.

Try again



Where, exactly, did you say that you were planning on lynching VE?

Scumslip #2, I believe.

Also, in case anyone's wondering where I came from, I replaced Pine.

Vote: Salamence
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Post Post #104 (isolation #1) » Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:19 pm

Post by McStab »

That literally came out of nowhere, VE's reasons mentioned nothing about you wanting to lynch him and you hadn't mentioned anything about that before.
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Post Post #116 (isolation #2) » Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:55 pm

Post by McStab »

Ah, I'd missed that interaction. Still, it's not explicitly said anywhere that he was planning to lynch you until that sentence. Even if it's not as damning as I thought before seeing that interaction, something strikes me as off about the way he went about saying it. As for the rest of the game, I'd say VE (for the shot on I Am Innocent) and mcqueen (for the whole "there's no way this guy lives till lylo") engagement between he and Prescending are the only two virtually conf. town in my eyes.
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Post Post #119 (isolation #3) » Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:06 pm

Post by McStab »

mcqueen was the second vote on Prescending, he didn't waver at all or point to any other wagons, and it's almost impossible to think that scum would bus THAT hard that early on Day One. I am Innocent may have been the first vote, but he was trying to lineup other targets and wasn't nearly as vicious at persecuting Prescending. Hell, mcqueen voted Prescending two times without having changed his vote; I don't think any scum would bus their partner that hard, especially before Prescending was a super popular wagon.
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Post Post #122 (isolation #4) » Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:21 pm

Post by McStab »

nhammen looks town to me, but he also looked at alternatives in his case. Mcqueen was the only one who was absolutely unswerving in his resolve, and joined the wagon early. If I Am Innocent hadn't flipped scum today, I would've put him in as a town read given his support of the Prescending lynch and being one of the first on the wagon. Don't get me wrong, nhammen looks town to me, but not conf. town. The only two people who I'm nearly 100% certain are town are you and mcqueen.
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Post Post #161 (isolation #5) » Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:59 pm

Post by McStab »

Just an FOS at this point, but Toogeloo's town read on Velazanth strikes me as very very strange. Possible buddying present also in his townreads (without being totally committed to them), and his lack of presence on the Prescending wagon strikes me as scummy.

But.......

Then I read over everything Salamence has been doing and I can't bring myself to change my vote.
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Post Post #164 (isolation #6) » Sun Jul 22, 2012 6:11 pm

Post by McStab »

I never used the word hate, but considering every defense to every scumtell you've had has been "If I was scum I wouldn't do this" as opposed to explaining why you actually did it.
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Post Post #233 (isolation #7) » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:01 am

Post by McStab »

In post 174, PMysterious wrote:Well, Empking seems to be the best lynch but Salamence20 seems to be decent. I hate it when I have to make up my mind.

UNVOTE:



So you find two players scummy and vote neither? I don't like the way you're talking here.

Unvote, Vote: PMysterious
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Post Post #270 (isolation #8) » Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:27 pm

Post by McStab »

In post 261, Salamence20 wrote:Just want to say I am 0-2 in Lylo as town now.

One was my fault and the other was not.

So yeah, not so hot in LyLo.



This isn't exactly scummy, but I agree it's damned useless. If jesters were considered normal I'd never lynch you, because you're clearly playing that role.

"Hey guys, I'm pretty bad late game, so you probably shouldn't let me live".

If I didn't think a policy lynch would be a waste of time I'd have my vote on you in a second.
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Post Post #279 (isolation #9) » Thu Jul 26, 2012 12:13 pm

Post by McStab »

In post 273, Tangion wrote:I still wanna see rofl hang I dont have any other strong reads


Why do you want to see rofl hang? What makes him a strong read as opposed to everyone else?
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Post Post #296 (isolation #10) » Fri Jul 27, 2012 4:38 am

Post by McStab »

In post 295, Salamence20 wrote:
In post 293, MagnaofIllusion wrote:
In post 291, Salamence20 wrote:@MoI: I am certain ROFL is scum, theres no way we are both scum.

Get off the Empking wagon for now, i tell you he seems townish.

MoI, do you think we can both be town? (ROFL and me)


Why are you certain Rofl is scum? I've yet to see anything compelling myself to that end.

Why do you think Empking seems Townish other than him calling you Town?

Absolutely both of you can be Town. You are both on the Pres wagon. Only way I would consider you both as scum is if it is Multiball (unproven at this stage).


Me, Empking, ROFL

Im sure one is scum of this group, and i am voting the best canidate.

I feel a town vs town argument from you and empking.



Vote:Salamence


So you're sure that someone is scum out of you three, and you listed yourself?

Funniest scumslip ever
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Post Post #316 (isolation #11) » Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:14 pm

Post by McStab »

@Salamence - Open 418, Venmar scumslipped by saying "I wasn't scum in that game like I am now".

He didn't die for that alone, but surely enough, he flipped scum. IMO scumslips work far better than most other so-called scumtells.
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Post Post #361 (isolation #12) » Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:27 am

Post by McStab »

Unvote, Vote:PMysterious


No vote on Prescending Day One, in Post 174 he says two people are scummy and still refuses to vote for either, the early claim is totally unnecessary, his vote in post 330 is overjustification with no actual reasons outlined (not even a "sheeping MoI) and I don't see how it's possible to have just a "null" read on Rofl and Sal at this point.
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Post Post #414 (isolation #13) » Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:01 am

Post by McStab »

Can we get off the claimed Jailkeeper and the guy who hammered the Godfather three pages into Day One and instead get on the prior-scummy, early-VT claiming, still pushing the lynch of Jailkeeper guy (PMysterious)?

I feel as though MoI-Empking is a huge town-town argument being egged on by scum like PM and potentially Sal (although Sal is definitely townier than PM). I could see Toon or Toog scum as well, but PM just SCREAMS scum, and it's a helluva lot less riskier to lynch a claimed VT (which, considering two scum are dead by Day Two, losing a VT is hardly a huge loss) than lynching a potential Jailkeeper.
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Post Post #416 (isolation #14) » Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:04 am

Post by McStab »

@Sal: What's your view on PMysterious?
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Post Post #442 (isolation #15) » Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:52 am

Post by McStab »

@MoI: I'm fine with a policy lynch with two dead scum and PM as a possible third scum, on Day Two. There's simply no chance of scum killing PM overnight at this rate, and we'll have to lynch him at some point before LyLo, I can see some real advantages to it this early in the game. As for Toon and Toog, both have had very opportunistic tendencies, neither were on the Prescending wagon D1, and they both have had minimal reads beyond sheeping one wagon or another (although Toog has admittedly answered more questions and been more transparent than Toon).

Regardless of whether it's policy or a scum lynch (I am more inclined to think he'll flip scum) PM is a good lynch today. Worst possible situation is he flips VT and we narrow down the pool of possible scum and a huge distraction, best possible situation is he flips scum.
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Post Post #453 (isolation #16) » Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:57 pm

Post by McStab »

Max val lifestyle
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Post Post #501 (isolation #17) » Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:06 pm

Post by McStab »

Right now there's way too many people hopping from indecisive lynch to indecisive lynch. Can we just stick with someone who is already a no-risk lynch? I agree Sala's vote hopping is godawful, and if his wagon picks up I'll hop on in a second, but at least he's actively posting alot of content (even if half of it's scummy). PMysterious won't get NK'ed by the mafia whether he's town or scum and directing VE to vig-kill someone reeks of scum in my opinion. Let's just lynch him and be done with it, or at least lynch one of the handful of uber-scummy candidates. Arugula's acting scummy, but not as scummy as PM or Sal, and the longer either live the longer we're going to be distracted from real scumhunting if they're town.

We're overthinking this WAY too much. Just vote for the obv. scum or derptown
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Post Post #503 (isolation #18) » Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:34 pm

Post by McStab »

@Velazanth - Read my post #361 for the original case, and he hasn't done anything but lurk to remedy those points.
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Post Post #512 (isolation #19) » Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:43 am

Post by McStab »

When's the deadline?
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Post Post #516 (isolation #20) » Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:12 am

Post by McStab »

^^Thanks.

nhammen, what do you think of Salamence?
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Post Post #557 (isolation #21) » Sun Aug 12, 2012 2:27 pm

Post by McStab »

I hardly think scum would take WIFOM chance on roflcopter over another member who would presumably be better hidden. I think ROFL's argument makes alot of sense, but I'm going to do a quick reread of the PM wagon and see if I can find anything scummy.
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Post Post #571 (isolation #22) » Sun Aug 12, 2012 5:02 pm

Post by McStab »

McStab, Toon Fighter, mcqueen, Toogeloo, Velazanth, Salamence20, Arugula, ROFLcopter

This is the order of people who voted PM.

I know I'm not scum, so I won't go into depth about me. I was pushing the PM wagon the whole day, so I do take some responsibility for the unfortunate death of a townsperson. That being said, we could be in a much worse position if we lynched a real JK (it remains to be seen if Empking really is one), lynched a townie who was contributing to scumhunting or outed another PR. Instead, although we lost PM, we also lost a big distraction who the scum would never have gotten around to killing.

Toon Fighter


Day One Behaviour: Wasn't on the Prescending wagon, and seemed to avoid the issue. That being said, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that he was busy and the wagon moved quicker than he thought. Either way, Day One certainly doesn't preclude him from being scum.

Day Two Behaviour: Not very active scumhunting; continued to prod-dodge and delay most of the day until he finally came up with a brief, but not terrible, scumreads post. In it, he seemed to find Sala the scummiest (based largely on attitude, if we rely on his earlier posts) and wanted to lynch PM for being anti-town (largely a policy). His official justification was for PM claiming VT so early without provocation. Not bad reasoning, but certainly nothing fantastic. Still, he jumped on at a pretty early part of the wagon, so I don't think the information provided is conclusive one way or another.

Read: Inconclusive leaning scum; acceptable lynch.

mcqueen
:

Day One Behaviour: Prevailingly pro-town. His exchange with Prescending is hard to see through scum eyes.

Day Two Behaviour: Tunnelled Sala most of the day, notably protected Empking from accusations on weak grounds. Seemed to advocate lynching Sala to garner information, more than finding him scummy. Jumps on the PM wagon early-middle, but with decent justification. Looking for the vig when he's already claimed is interesting, but I'm not sure it can be interpreted as an alignment tell. Either way, his behaviour Day One and his willingness to lynch solely to gain information (without much justification) leans reckless town to me, but his behaviour certainly shouldn't be beyond reproach.

Read: Conclusively town; not 100% confirmed, still subject to change. For today, not an acceptable lynch by any stretch of the imagination.

Toogeloo


Day One Behaviour: Stays off and ignores the Prescending wagon despite being active. Tunnels Salamence. Scummy.

Day Two Behaviour: Starts off questioning VE about killing IaI. Seems to be fishing for SK possibilities. Suspicious. Seems to flip from ROFL to Empking rather easily, despite them being opposing viewpoints for most of the day. Blatant sheeping of myself to get on the PM wagon, with no previous accusations made towards PM by Toogeloo.

Day Three Behaviour: Hesitant to continue lynching off the wagon; seems to be some self-preservation at play here.

Read: Conclusively scummy. His Day One dodging of the Prescending lynch, Day Two interest in a potential third party, vote-hopping from totally opposing viewpoints using blatant sheepery (sheeping both MoI and myself at various points), and opportunistic jump on the wagon is behaviour indicative of scum.
LYNCH HIM WITH FIRE



The rest of my reads on the wagon will come later, but the tl;dr version is that McQueen may be scum but is definitely not a priority lynch anytime soon, Toon Fighter is a null read atm, and Toogeloo is obv. scum.

Vote: Toogeloo
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Post Post #619 (isolation #23) » Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:33 pm

Post by McStab »

Unvote


Thoughts coming tomorrow on this, real life is keeping me a bit busy.
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Post Post #670 (isolation #24) » Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:56 pm

Post by McStab »

Aside from the weird (and in my opinion, flawed) jailkeeping choice by Empking, his Day One play could align with scum RB. He refused to jump on the Prescending wagon or even discuss it.

His Day Two behaviour is bad for tunnelling ROFL most of the day (who I'd consider nowhere near Arugula or Sala's scumminess) but is somewhat offset by staying off the PM wagon.

I wouldn't be totally disinclined from lynching Empking today, but we definitely ought to discuss more. Anyone hammering him right now (only three pages into the day) will be near the top of my scumlist, regardless of how he flips.
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Post Post #676 (isolation #25) » Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:26 pm

Post by McStab »

You made three posts the entire day. At the respective times, it was Page three with six people on the wagon, then seven by the third post. (with 9 to lynch). You didn't make a SINGLE comment on the wagon and tried to start a new wagon on VisceraEyes who had no votes.


By the way, the person who you failed to notice hadd posted multiple times and had six votes on him (who then flipped Godfather), but somehow THIS stuck out to you as scummy?

In post 37, VisceraEyes wrote:Hi all.

The game seems to be proceeding as I'd expect. nhammen looks way way town, so I'm going to sheep him and hyperlurk to delicious victory.

VOTE: Prescending



Add to this your super weak defense of your vote in #63, and you've actually convinced me Empking (that you're scum). I'm letting everyone know right now that I have intent to hammer. I'll let everyone get a post in, and unless someone can find me a good reason to not hammer, I'll lay it down.
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Post Post #679 (isolation #26) » Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:00 pm

Post by McStab »

I misspoke when I said refuse. You obviously didn't actively say "I'm refusing to comment on this." But if you're arguing that this clears you in any way, shape or form, it doesn't. I've yet to encounter a case of scum outright blatantly saying they refuse to comment on a wagon. They just didn't comment on it while it was right there in front of them for the world to see.

You're arguing semantics, Empking. And to suggest that it was dull, given the mcqueen-Prescending exchange earlier and the constant arguing that ensued, I fail to see how it fits the criteria. Even if you didn't think the case on Prescending was that interesting or solid, and you thought him to be town, you must have wondered how the wagon grew so big so fast?

Flailing scum is hilarious. You were so obviously not scumhunting Day One and I just can't see your night choice making any sense at all as JK.
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Post Post #682 (isolation #27) » Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:00 pm

Post by McStab »

You said I am exaggerating by claiming you refused to discuss the Prescending wagon. I said that while you explicitly didn't say it, no scum ever would say it explicitly; your refusal to discuss it exists within you remaining blind to the elephant in the room. Thus, when you claim I'm engaging in hyperbole, you're essentially relying upon the fact that you did not explicitly say no, yet I still posit that you refused to discuss it.

It's also funny to note that you've come up with no good response to the rest of my argument, and are simply trying to distract from the pressing accusations against you by focusing on the minutiae of my posts.
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Post Post #684 (isolation #28) » Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:35 pm

Post by McStab »

Evidently putting an effort into scumhunting on page three and before isn't counter-productive, given the flip of a mafia Godfather. I haven't changed my mind about misspeaking when I said refuse, I should've used a word along the lines of "omitted", but one can misspeak and still mean the same point. You refused, omitted would merely have been a more precise term.

There was more than simply the mcqueen-pres interaction to entice your interest as well, given the speed of the wagon on him. If you thought Prescending was town, did you not think that the size of the wagon on him was of note? Yet instead you limited your accusations to a single player posting a single fluff post.

As for the ROFL issue, it's largely WIFOM. If there is only one scum left, then targeting ROFL makes sense. Evidently you must have some reason to believe there are two mafia members left. If this is the case, then tell me, what scum is going to be willing to risk putting a suspicious player out there to do the kill (one who is presumably higher than likely to be jailkept) as opposed to a member who is well-hidden? There is no sensible reason, and every argument you've put forth up to this point relies on WIFOM (if it's so obvious scum wouldn't send ROFL, wouldn't they send ROFL!?!?!).
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Post Post #686 (isolation #29) » Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:04 pm

Post by McStab »

If you weren't paying attention then you weren't scumhunting. If you weren't scumhunting you're either a burden to the town or a bonus to the scum. I don't want to leave either alive longer than necessary.

So you can predict exactly what scum would do, yet the scum can't predict what you would do? To suggest that you can out-WIFOM someone is extremely doubtful. Congratulations though, you can cite some game theory experts.
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Post Post #711 (isolation #30) » Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:20 am

Post by McStab »

In post 709, Salamence20 wrote:
In post 708, roflcopter wrote:
vote: arugula



Actually, this post almost makes me want to call him town.

:P

ROFL, any comments on Empking?



While ROFL's comments on Empking leave alot to be desired, your case on ROFL leaves even more to be desired.

Sala, tell us (even if others out there think ROFL is scummy, please refrain until Sala says it himself) why ROFL is scum.
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Post Post #731 (isolation #31) » Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:49 am

Post by McStab »

In post 727, Salamence20 wrote:
In post 726, roflcopter wrote:arugula is scum more votes please


I am Salamence20, and I approve of this message.

Maybe not entirely the person, but the message.



So you're telling me you honestly believe Arugula and ROFL are scum together, and yet this is the approach ROFL is taking?

Sala is scum flailing so hard it's funny.

Vote:Sala


I think the other scum is one of either:

A)VisceraEyes is an SK who is choosing not to kill (not as far-fetched as you may think; for one, why would a one-shot vig use their shot Night One? Sure, maybe VE is just an exceptional scumcatcher, I won't put that past him, but I Am Innocent barely registered on my scumdar and yet he decided to use his one shot on him.) I think VE got lucky killing a mafia member Night One and decided to come out and claim. Once he thinks the mafia is dead, he'll start killing, and he'd be the only one above reproach (because he's the only one of the non-investigated players to be confirmed non-mafia), while we all think there is another mafioso. I just think it's very unfeasible that a 1-shot Vig would use their power the first night on someone who they had very little to go off of.

If this is the case, a 13:3:1 (with Godfather and maybe Sala's a PR as well) is the setup, or MAYBE a 14:4:1 (with presumably two goons, I'd guess Sala and then one of Arugula or ROFL).

B) Sala and another are a PR and goon combo. A 13:4 setup with three mafia PRs is a little too overbalanced for me to think plausible, even with the Cop-JK-Tracker-1Shot Vig mix we would have.

I would be for a VE lynch, to be frank. I thought about it alot and I just can't see a 1 shot vig using their only shot the first night against IaI; I'm far more inclined to think an SK got lucky and is trying to play it off as a conf. town player.

If we don't go for a VE lynch today, my next favourite pick is Sala, and then Arugula. I could be convinced to vote MoI or ROFL if the right case came around, but so far I'm unconvinced.
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Post Post #752 (isolation #32) » Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:02 am

Post by McStab »

I'm mainly hesitant on this wagon because I think it's scum motivated. Don't get me wrong, Arugula could very well be scum, and I think lynching him is justifiable, but my number one suspect for scum right now is Sala, who's been pushing this wagon hard for a loooooonnnnggg time. If Arugula flips scum though, I think it clears Sala, this would've been the hardest multi-day bussing ever seen.
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Post Post #757 (isolation #33) » Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:25 pm

Post by McStab »

In post 753, Salamence20 wrote:McStab, there are two confirmed town, Inte, ROFL, and I.

Other than me, who else is scum on that wagon?


ROFL could be very easily, and although he's nowhere near the top of my list, Inte could be scum, I just think it quite unlikely. It's being pushed largely by you though, and I think you're scummy as hell. I'm not jumping on the Arugula wagon until something more convincing than the case you put forth comes out.
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Post Post #760 (isolation #34) » Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:25 pm

Post by McStab »

In post 758, inte wrote:Mcstab you're supposed to bus at a time like this


I'm not hammering someone because you want me to, and I'm not going to vote someone because you pressure me into it.
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Post Post #762 (isolation #35) » Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:00 pm

Post by McStab »

I think MoI is more likely to be town than Sala, Arugula, or ROFL, but less likely to be town than you. I also think the only case I've seen against him has been based on speculation of future associative links "If Arugula-Sala-ROFL flip town, MoI is scum". Which is, to be frank, useless. If we mislynch three times, and assume three more scum NKs, we've likely lost the game (assuming there's four mafia) or at the very least are in the awkward spot of 1 Mafia 1 SK 2 Town.
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Post Post #779 (isolation #36) » Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:20 am

Post by McStab »

Vote:Sala


Yeah, let's put someone to L-1 with no discussion.

Time to save the day with some hard facts.

Day One Lynch Votecount:



Prescending - 9( Salamance20, MagnaOfIllusion, roflcopter)
Arugula - 1(Tangion (inte))
Not Voting - 1 (Pine (McStab))

So, out of the potential lynch pool, MoI, Sala, ROFL get town points. Inte gets scum points. I get null points (Pine was gone all day).

Day Two Lynch:

ToonFighter - 1 (MagnaOfIllusion)
PMysterious - 7(McStab Salamence20,roflcopter )
Arugula - 1 (inte)

Scumpoints for everyone here.

Current point tracker: MoI, Sala, ROFL are 0. Inte is two scumpoints. I am at one scumpoint.

Day Three Lynch (also on a Claimed Town PR, so I weighted each point as 1.5):

Empking - 7(roflcopter Salamence20)
mcqueen - 1(MagnaOfIllusion)

Not Voting - 3(inte, McStab)

1.5 Scumpoints for ROFL and Sala, scumpoint for MoI, Null for myself and inte.

Scumtracker: Sala and ROFL are at 1.5 scumpoints, MoI at 1 scumpoints, Inte at 2 and myself at one.


Day Four Lynch:

Arugula - 6(roflcopter, Salamence20, inte MagnaOfIllusion)
Salamence20 - 2 (McStab)

Everyone but me adds a single scumpoint.

Sala and ROFL at 2.5 scumpoints, Inte at 3, MoI at 2, myself at one.


Now today we get MoI run up to L-1 without a single discussion?

Nah, that's badplay or scumplay. Velaz and Toon are confirmed town, so they can't be scum on the wagon. This leaves me to believe Sala or Inte are where the last two scum are.

Considering Sala's play throughout the days, his involvement on virtually every pro-town wagon (including the PR), and his flip flopping on ROFL, I believe he's the scum. Bigger case coming soon.
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Post Post #795 (isolation #37) » Sun Sep 02, 2012 1:50 am

Post by McStab »

Sorry but
Mod, I will be VLA for up to one week, I should still be able to maintain some limited access.
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Post Post #846 (isolation #38) » Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:26 pm

Post by McStab »

Not changing my vote till I get a better reread and can make a big post. Im vt.
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Post Post #896 (isolation #39) » Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:31 am

Post by McStab »

Sorry, I have had limited access up until last night.

The way I see it, we ought to act as though we're dealing with four scum, even if we're only dealing with three. Viscera/Havingfitz is off the table until another Mafia flips.

So, this is the current playerlist:

Velazanth - Confirmed Town
Salamence20
MagnaOfIllusion - Near conf. town (BP claim)
roflcopter
ToonFighter - Confirmed Town
inte
havingfitz - Confirmed non-Mafia (and our first priority should be finding Mafia)
McStab

So, with the four lynches that are viable being myself, inte, Sala or ROFL, and us having two chances to catch scum (today and then LyLo tomorrow if we're wrong) we ought to be trying to setup the optimal LyLo situation so that tomorrow we can't be blindsided by scum. With that in mind, I think that an inte lynch doesn't provide us nearly as much information as a ROFL or Sala lynch.

Sala and ROFL have been after each other for most of the game. Both have been likely candidates to be lynched all throughout the game, and each have pushed against each other ardently. This is either the hardest bussing known to man, or they are not scum together. Given both of their play having various scummy highpoints (although I still think Sala takes the cake as opposed to ROFL) I am not totally opposed to either's lynch.

But we need to lynch one today. Tomorrow this fight could cost us in LyLo, and I think it highly likely that at least one is scum and one is town. This could be paramount to winning the game through PoE.

For example, if we lynch Sala today and he flips scum, I think that virtually confirms ROFL. This leaves us in a much more desirable LyLo position with inte and myself being the only two potential candidates, up from a LyLo where ROFL, Sala and myself are all non-confirmed.

I want everyone in their next post to say if they would be alright with a Sala lynch; if they aren't, I will compromise on a ROFL lynch, but I'm not lynching inte today and I'm preferring Sala.
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Post Post #898 (isolation #40) » Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:40 am

Post by McStab »

And Sala doesn't?
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Post Post #924 (isolation #41) » Sat Sep 08, 2012 5:21 pm

Post by McStab »

blatant prod dodge post coming soon
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Post Post #926 (isolation #42) » Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:40 am

Post by McStab »

I do think it's funny how I'm consistently mentioned as scummy yet I've only been on one town lynch, and that was PMysterious.

Anyone care to try and take a shot at a case against me? Or are you all just sheeping havingfitz?
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Post Post #928 (isolation #43) » Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:30 am

Post by McStab »

So the town is SO incompetent that every one of those lynches except PM wasn't helped by scum?


This is the problem with everyone this game. Everyone is overthinking things and not noticing the BLATANTLY OBVIOUS fact that Sala has pushed EVERY town lynch and has no real reason to not be scum. Even if he is town, he's too dangerous to live till LyLo. Sala's scumdar is obviously so off this game he's more than useless OR he's scum. I'm far more inclined to think he's scum. And that's why I've been pushing him this whole time. But no, everyone seems to be sheeping him like he somehow knows what he's doing (hint: the results of this game show he doesn't).

Just lynch the guy who's been pushing every town wagon. It's so glaringly obvious and you're all overthinking this.

Vote:Sala
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Post Post #932 (isolation #44) » Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:27 am

Post by McStab »

The inte wagon is good because of VCA, but it fails to address TWO things:

1. Inte is playing rather pro-town right now.

2. It leaves the Sala-ROFL issue to LyLo if we're wrong.


One of Sala-ROFL need to die before LyLo, and the other's alignment could likely be determined from that.

Sala and ROFL; How about you stop being useless dead weight and put a fucking argument together? Both of you have been nothing but a cumbersome burden upon the town, even if you aren't scum. So either put an argument together as to why I'm scum, or stop leading every damned mislynch. One of you is probably town; so although one of you has an excuse in that you're scum, the other one is just playing inexcusably terrible.
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Post Post #933 (isolation #45) » Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:27 am

Post by McStab »

And the ROFL wagon is worse than yours, but still acceptable. MoI isn't on the table for me atm, because both you and ROFL are alive.
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Post Post #935 (isolation #46) » Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:43 am

Post by McStab »

You've said it over and over and the only person you've even made a SEMBLANCE of a case on is ROFL. That case is shoddy at best.

Meanwhile, you've lead lynches on a town PR plus FOUR other townies. When asked to backup your accusations against Inte, myself or MoI you rely on associative links of people that HAVEN'T FLIPPED YET.

Your case is paper-thin and garbage. Your play is, at the absolute best, a great harm to the town; at worst, you're scum who's somehow gotten away with lynching a claimed PR and four townies.

If you all let him get away with another mislynch you should be ashamed of yourselves, when the evidence is right there in the flips of FIVE PRO-TOWN PLAYERS.
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Post Post #936 (isolation #47) » Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:45 am

Post by McStab »

Keep in mind his view of the game, as far as I can understand it, is that ROFL is conf-scum (unless he is advocating himself as scum) and then that there is a 1/3 chance of scum amongst Inte, myself and MoI (great logic, btw; that group you consider to potentially have scum in it only forms 60% of the possible scumpool).

He's trying to keep an image of fake scumhunting and he's finally being called on it. Look at that reaction to pressure and tell me that isn't TEXTBOOK DEFINITION of Flailing Scum.
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Post Post #938 (isolation #48) » Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:54 am

Post by McStab »

Hang on, it makes it much better that you just jumped on board five town lynches as opposed to lead them all.

AND LOL @ SCUMSLIP "I know I can't be scum with ROFL or You."

So you know you could be scum with MoI or Inte? Hahahahaha
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Post Post #939 (isolation #49) » Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:54 am

Post by McStab »

do i need to argue any longer or can we just get around to lynching this guy
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Post Post #942 (isolation #50) » Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:47 am

Post by McStab »

As much as you whine and complain and insist you're town you've done nothing to prove that you are in fact town.
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Post Post #945 (isolation #51) » Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:19 pm

Post by McStab »

Sala needs to die. Sheep someone OTHER than him for once, Toon
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Post Post #947 (isolation #52) » Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:15 pm

Post by McStab »

Why exactly are you voting me? Because last time I did it I was scum?
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Post Post #948 (isolation #53) » Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:15 pm

Post by McStab »

This is farcical. He's not even trying to scumhunt anymore.
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Post Post #950 (isolation #54) » Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:29 pm

Post by McStab »

As a matter of fact Salamence, you're right, I do like to stay off the main lynches when they're ALL TOWN.

It's not a virtue to lynch town. It's not a vice to not lynch town. Your argument is invalid. Your scumhunting is flawed, forced, and quickly exposed as a mere illusion upon the slightest application of pressure.

Now can we get this lynch pushed through? It's going to be the first one since Day One that was truly worthwhile.
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Post Post #952 (isolation #55) » Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:05 pm

Post by McStab »

Re-evaluate and consider lynching inte, ROFL or MoI.
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Post Post #954 (isolation #56) » Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:36 pm

Post by McStab »

Cheer, celebrate ROFL as virtually conf town, and consider lynching inte or MoI.
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Post Post #960 (isolation #57) » Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:55 pm

Post by McStab »

In post 955, Salamence20 wrote:Ok, so I see problems.

Why shouldn't ROFL be obvscum if I am town?
Why does ROFL get to be conftown on my scumflip? You have seen my scum play, right?


Because your scumdar could be off; whereas your pursuing of ROFL is something a scumbuddy wouldn't do to a partner. And yes, I know you bus, but nowhere near this level. Trying to bus for five straight days is pretty insane by any scum standards.
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Post Post #976 (isolation #58) » Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:23 am

Post by McStab »

And you in LyLo brings about someone who self-votes by playing against your wincon. You just threatened to and you have a history of doing so.

Sala is a liability to the town, he's pushed every town wagon, and he's got no coherent sense of the game. Even if he somehow flips town he's too dangerous to leave till LyLo.

If everyone in this game would focus on facts instead of their own delusional views (ROFL's inte/me scumteam theory, with no evidence; Sala's logic that even though ROFL is conf scum MoI needs to die; havingfitz's adamant attacks on MoI that amount to a manipulated VCA and a question of "why didn't MoI die at night", both of which are weak; MoI's focus on ROFL despite Sala clearly being the better lynch) we might be able to win this game. Just lynch the Salamander, he's at best a threat to the town out of incompetence/self-voting in LyLo and at worst he's scum who's managed to push every town wagon with no repercussions.
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Post Post #1000 (isolation #59) » Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:18 pm

Post by McStab »

Because he's scum who's OMGUSing.

Sala dies today, I refuse to move my vote. There is no one who is more dangerous to the town at this point than Sala. There is no one who is more deserving of being lynched at this point than Sala.

He has said he will self-vote in LyLo. He has pushed FIVE town lynches without offering up a SINGLE defense. He has changed his scumreads today from ROFL to Inte to MoI to myself, THIS AFTER HE PUT MoI AT L-1 WITHOUT A SINGLE WORD SAID THIS DAY.

He's opportunistic. He's lynched every town player in the game. He's changed his scumreads because he doesn't have any real scumreads. He called ROFL CONFSCUM and yet he refuses to vote him and instead targets others. He's threatened to self-vote in LyLo.

Salamence20 needs to die. This isn't a proposal, a hypothesis, a theory, this should be a law. His play is deserving of the rope.

His only defense of my accusations has been "McStab has Salavision".

Yes, I do. Because you are so glaringly obviously scum. If anyone else decided to get up and take a look at his play this game instead of just attributing it to his VI status they would LYNCH HIM.
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Post Post #1001 (isolation #60) » Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:18 pm

Post by McStab »

Here comes his next opportunistic vote, onto MoI with no real justification.
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Post Post #1003 (isolation #61) » Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:50 pm

Post by McStab »

Firstly, I spokeup because you've pushed five townlynches with just as little justification as this one. You're a scourge upon this game, and I won't let you guide the lynch one more time. Stop trying to distract us from the main point; you've put MoI at L-1 twice with shitty reasoning.

Secondly, it's not all that unbelievable. For anyone needing reference to his self-voting, see his page five self-hammer as town after "jokingly" threatening it earlier in the game in Micro 18.

Thirdly, we're one mislynch away from LyLo. If you really were sure that ROFL was conf scum (which you are advertising) then you would be advocating harder for his lynch than anyone else. When exactly do you intend to see him be lynched?

Fourth, VCA without any other reference can be flawed. Inte's play hasn't been nearly as scummy as yours. So the .5 difference is overruled by your scummy behaviour.

Finally, THIS is my case, above you. Salamence's play is consistent with a fabrication, an illusion, NOT a real train of thought.


If Sala doesn't flip scum, go ahead and lynch me tomorrow, I won't fight it (I won't self-vote either though). THAT is how certain I am Sala has to be scum.
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Post Post #1022 (isolation #62) » Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:09 pm

Post by McStab »

I like RedCoyote's entrance, because unlike half of the players in this game he's not a dumb sheep. To answer his question, Sala is WAY over the other two, and then inte, and then MoI. If that looks like I'm defending MoI, then newsflash, I am. Both times he's been pushed to L-1 today have been the result of the shittiest votes ever, and they've been pushed by players who've led the town down countless mislynches.

RedCoyote, I'm going to appeal to you first because you seem to be the new trend for the sheep to follow. Here's another example of Sala not having a coherent view of the game and instead OMGUSing and reacting poorly to pressure, all the while changing his scumreads onto whoever is the easiest to mislynch:



In post 1004, Salamence20 wrote:
In post 1003, McStab wrote:Firstly, I spokeup because you've pushed five townlynches with just as little justification as this one. You're a scourge upon this game, and I won't let you guide the lynch one more time. Stop trying to distract us from the main point; you've put MoI at L-1 twice with shitty reasoning.

Secondly, it's not all that unbelievable. For anyone needing reference to his self-voting, see his page five self-hammer as town after "jokingly" threatening it earlier in the game in Micro 18.

Thirdly, we're one mislynch away from LyLo. If you really were sure that ROFL was conf scum (which you are advertising) then you would be advocating harder for his lynch than anyone else. When exactly do you intend to see him be lynched?

Fourth, VCA without any other reference can be flawed. Inte's play hasn't been nearly as scummy as yours. So the .5 difference is overruled by your scummy behaviour.

Finally, THIS is my case, above you. Salamence's play is consistent with a fabrication, an illusion, NOT a real train of thought.


If Sala doesn't flip scum, go ahead and lynch me tomorrow, I won't fight it (I won't self-vote either though). THAT is how certain I am Sala has to be scum.


1. I'm not guiding shit, unless it is a ROFL lynch.
2. Are you new? There are tons of people who self-vote regardless of alignment. Plus Self-voting in lylo is a big nono compared to D1.
3. When I flip town, or if MoI flips town.
4. What do you think of Fitz's VCA and Inte's D5 play?
5. The only problem I have with that is that you believe that scum drive town lynches only, when, most of the time, town drives town lynches.



1. Blatantly false. Please see your post #1020 (a mere 16 posts later on the same page) where you claim MoI/McStab scumteam. Somehow in less than 16 posts you've decided that you're not "only pushing a ROFL lynch" to pushing two other lynches. Lining up lynches is scummy too, but nothing compared to the rest of your erratic, blatantly scummy behaviour.
2. Are you an idiot? Scum self-vote to hide information. Town only self-votes in RVS as a joke or when they're morons. And self-voting Day One IS a big deal when you're laying down the hammer. You self-hammered. You killed the only person in the game you KNOW to be town for no purpose other than you were frustrated. THIS GUY CAN'T LIVE TILL LYLO.
3. So you ARE pushing a MoI lynch then, not just a ROFL lynch like you purported to two lines earlier. And yeah, let's lynch ROFL in LyLo because you think he's scum, despite the fact that your scumdar has been the great destroyer of town chances this game.
4. I'd have to examine inte's play in D5 more closely. Fitz's VCA is decent but I think it was a conclusion he came across that he was trying to find evidence to support as opposed to a conclusion from the evidence. His VCA somehow exonerates people who've pushed every town wagon this game.
5. Town are ON mislynches by definition. Town usually mislynch once or twice. But you've pushed FIVE mislynches. Not many town are on FIVE mislynches, including a claimed PR.



Sala, care presenting a case of my behaviour throughout the game as being scum?


In post 1017, Toon Fighter wrote:Goodposting by RC. I too am inclined to believe rofl is town and the scum team to be between inte-Mcstab-Sala-MoI. My bet is on MoI-McStab, but I wouldn't discar the other possibilities. However, I think our best lynch for today is McStab. Getting him lynched will pretty much confirm MoI as scum (or inte, as a worst case scenario. I don't believe in a McStab-Sala team). If he IS town, then I advocate we look at Sala next.

unvote, vote: McStab


Also, McStab didn't claim BP, and I'd prefer to lynch someone who hasn't claimed BP.



^^^Congrats, you've narrowed down scum to four slots with presumably one mislynch left before LyLo. Then you blindly sheep Sala onto another townplayer using his logic of "MoI-Stab Scumteam" despite the fact that he was pushing ROFL as "Conf scum" earlier in the page. And then the coup de grace of your case is the "McStab didn't claim BP". Well, you got me, I'm not Bulletproof, so time to get me lynched. Despite the fact that Salamence and inte never claimed BP either.


The cases on me are weak, and Sala's thought process is literally NONSENSICAL.

RedCoyote, I appeal to you to look closely at Sala's behaviour throughout this game, the Votecounts on each townlist, and his opportunistic jumps throughout today. Of particular to note is his L-1 vote on MoI WITHOUT A SINGLE WORD SAID. Or his sudden change from "ROFL Conf. scum" to ROFL town McStab/MoI scumteam. This is after MoI claims Bulletproof and I start attacking him.

He's lining up mislynches on his main attacker for NO valid reason and MoI, the claimed Bulletproof.

If I get lynched today as opposed to Sala, it's an outright travesty of justice.
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Post Post #1025 (isolation #63) » Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:55 pm

Post by McStab »

You yourself said it unlikely a Sala-McStab scum team exists. So if Sala is scum then I am town and vice versa according to you. If this is the case, attacking Sala (which I've been doing ALOT longer than when I was just under pressure, if you actually reread the game) does exonerate myself.

Furthermore, there hasn't BEEN a case against me apart from some small criticism RedCoyote leveled against me, in which he didn't conclusively decide I was scum. ROFL is insistent on claiming I am partners with inte; Sala is insistent on me being partners with ROFL or MoI, depending on the mood you catch him in; you are now saying I am scum with MoI, yet you are unwilling to lynch him. Yet you realize that if he is BP, now that he's out and claimed, scum won't try to kill him if he's town, and if he's scum he won't die at night. So yeah, at this point MoI's claim is really only useful in the sense that it's a named townie sort of, because for all other intents and purposes it's useless.
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Post Post #1036 (isolation #64) » Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:32 pm

Post by McStab »

You've voted me three times, so unless you're some sort of unclaimed triple voter your gimmick is getting old
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Post Post #1039 (isolation #65) » Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:28 pm

Post by McStab »

Vote: Salamence
Vote:Salamence
Vote:Salamence


....just trying to be emphatic
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Post Post #1059 (isolation #66) » Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:37 pm

Post by McStab »

In post 1057, Salamence20 wrote:VOTE: McStab

Inte is near conftown.
Fitz and Coyote are conftown.

There is absolutely no way McStab is town. No fucking way. The chances of him trying to create my counterwagon and his failure to hammer MoI as town is so small it's not even funny.

ROFL is the only other person today I would consider, and that is a stretch now.

McStab is scum. GG.


Inte isn't near conf. town, but I agree the chances have gone up.

Coyote is conf town.
ROFL is Conf town.

Fitz is conf. NOT MAFIA. I think he's an SK. Seriously, why would a 1 shot Vig shoot night one at IaI when there are such other compelling targets? I believe it more likely he came out and claimed to avoid drawing any suspicion until the scumteam was dead, and then start killing and take credit. Think about it; he waits until the third Mafia member flips and then takes over killing. He was originally going to kill every night but upon killing Mafia first night he decides to lay back in wait after claiming as town. Being Bulletproof protects him from being killed, as well.

A 1 BP SK vs. Godfather-RB-Goon vs. Tracker/Cop/JK strikes me as a pretty balanced setup.

Vote: Havingfitz


I was wrong about MoI, so I'm sorry Sala for what I said yesterday. But still, don't let him slide by. Make this decision today and lynch him instead of me, or else you'll be in LyLo and this issue will be pertinent again. I get it that I wasn't on MoI's wagon and I pushed hard against his lynch all day; I was doing this because the first time his wagon went up it was terribad (no posting other than votes) and the second time it happened I was far more convinced of the Sala case.

If we lynch Fitz today, we KNOW that it's another Mafioso, not an SK, in LyLo. I think knowing that we're dealing with one scumteam OR winning the game right here is a far better proposal than entering LyLo with the SK issue still in the air.
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Post Post #1096 (isolation #67) » Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:04 pm

Post by McStab »

Good game everyone, it was enjoyable. I really think that the following players deserved a special mention:

MoI for some great play, up until Day Five (where Process of Elimination was really hurting us) I thought you'd carried the scumteam, so good work.

Sala for rallying at the end of Day Five to come after me; although I'm sure some part of that was OMGUS, I was impressed you were able to stick with my read for so long under so much pressure while the others kinda floundered.

RedCoyote and Havingfitz for putting the last nails in our coffin. Seriously, me and MoI win this game if those two don't come in and start applying pressure on MoI.

Toogeloo for copping two of the mislynches I had lined up. That was the difference between losing and LyLo.

VisceraEyes seemingly miraculous shot on IaI Night One, coupled with Empking's JK N1.

I think the one mistake I made was not lynching MoI at the start of the day, but I honestly thought I could sway town to turn around.



As for the late game Nightkills, I put forth the McQueen kill because I knew a replacement was coming in and the slot was being treated as close to conf. town. I think this was still the correct move; Toon Fighter and Velazanth hadn't really been problems for us, and compared to the efficacy of RedCoyote and Havingfitz, I thought keeping the current players in the game was more important. Trying to convince Velaz and TF to mislynch inte, ROFL or Sala was MUCH easier than doing that to RedCoyote or Fitz.

The Toon Fighter kill over RedCoyote may seem strange, but this was because I had two options in my mind:

A) I was still unsure if Fitz was an SK. MoI had RB'ed him all through the late game and if I was an SK I would've considered the night after MoI's lynch to be the perfect time to start killing. If he did, I knew RedCoyote (being strong and conf.town) would be his kill of choice; I also knew PoE was closing in, so I had to eliminate another conf. town. So, if Fitz was an SK, I would kill Toon and presumably Red would die, I could push the lynch on Fitz, and then be in LyLo with Sala-Inte-Me (killing ROFL the next night).

B) Because of associative links and the strength of play by RedCoyote and Fitz, I had to try and push Fitz's mislynch and argue the SK theory as opposed to trying to defend myself as MoI's partner. No one would buy that one of the people on MoI's lynch bussed him; so the SK was really my only hope.


I'm pretty happy with my play overall though. I think what really killed the scumteam was the early elimination of Prescending, rendering the cop's results unquestionable and weakening us by one. He seriously screwed us this game. Add IaI's death to that and we were really hurting. Considering that midway through Day Three we had lost two scum (including a PR) at a tradeoff of a Tracker and two VTs, PLUS three confirmed town, one confirmed non-Mafia, ROFL and McQueen being close to conf. town, and all we had was an RB + Goon left, and we were sunk early in the game. I'm amazed we lasted as long as we did.
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Post Post #1099 (isolation #68) » Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:29 pm

Post by McStab »

I defended you because the case against you at first amounted to four random votes, and then the second reason was you SPECIFICALLY REQUESTED that I not bus you at all. So yeah, don't try to place your lack of effort at defending yourself on me. You gave up Day 5 because you were sunk and you didn't do anything to try and hold it off. That's a big thing that sunk us, MoI.

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