Open 501: Stacking the Deck of Power (Game Over)

[havingfitz]

VOTE: Syryana for being the first person I realized has yet to be voted.

[havingfitz]

^ or because we're in RVS and that was the basis for my RV

Would you have preferred I "randomly" support an existing wagon?

[havingfitz]

Actually yes, at least that would add more pressure to whoever you'd be voting.

Then why didn't you vote Bert or Lazurial to "pressure" them?

And why not question the three voters after you who started new wagons?

VOTE: Sakura Hana

[havingfitz]

Because I didn't think everyone would end up voting different people, and you are the only one who said that wanted to vote someone else on your reasons.

You criticized me for not voting some with votes already on them. When you did the same thing...and failed to criticize others who did. Your response above doesn't answer my questions to you...it just defends your questioning of me. Can you answer my questions?

[havingfitz]

Actually it does havingfitz, maybe you should re-read them.

Actually it doesn't.

Happy with my non-RVS vote.

[havingfitz]

I want to call Sakura "Sakuna Matata"...because everytime I see her name that's what my mind is translating it to.

So while I would admit Mutley has been a bit annoying in here, a quick look over some of his other games shows as no surprise....he likes short posts (but is capable of more thoughtful content) and he apparently likes to be annoying.  And he's in the middle of a 5 person speed wagon that I predict has a scum or two on it. 

@DBK...why is only voting to pressure someone a question for you?  If my interaction with Sakura was enough then aside from Mutley not stating that (until many teeth were removed)...doesn't an additional vote provide pressure?  And it seems to be what Sakura herself was advocating when she questioned me on my Syryana vote and then (for what I assume is the "pressure") her subsequent vote on Nacho.  And what of Tierce's vote on Mutley in Post 29?

And speaking of Tierce...wtf is "poor rationale" regarding my vote on Sakura.  It's a serious vote.  You should ISO her...her play so far speaks for itself.  Read her exchange with me about her questioning my vote on Syryana and tell me she doesn't trip all over herself trying to get out of the spotlight.  And IMO the Mutley vote on her is much less opportunistic (as you accuse him of) then the votes on his wagon.

[havingfitz]

So speaking honestly is scummy, got it.

Has someone accused you of being scum for speaking honestly?

[havingfitz]

@Sakuna....so in other words, no one said anyone was scummy for speaking honestly.

You want us to think someone made that accusation because it sounds bad to do that but who in here is going to acknowledge anything they say isn't honest? It's a given IMO that every thing anyone says in these games is intended to be taken honestly. It's town's job to figure out when it isn't.

Would you tell us if you said something dishonest?

[havingfitz]

What if you were scum?

[havingfitz]

And it seems to be what Sakura herself was advocating when she questioned me on my Syryana vote and then (for what I assume is the "pressure") her subsequent vote on Nacho.  And what of Tierce's vote on Mutley in Post 29?

^ @ DBK wrt pressure voting.

[havingfitz]

That's not my point... that's my question to you wrt your take on their votes.

[havingfitz]

I'll catch up in here tomorrow. Zzzzzzzzzz

[havingfitz]

OK...catch up from my Post 81.
 
@Tierce...what "faulty logic" of mine was Sakura pointing out to me?  How about Sakura's faulty logic?
 
@Syryana...I didn't think the answers were acceptable/made sense...i.e. I didn't think they answered my questions.  Which apparently Sakura agreed with.  And btw...her second response was unacceptable as well.  She says she didn't want to risk a quicklynch and yet she had issue with me not adding to someone's wagon.  And as for her initial answer to the second question...it was not true...the very next vote after Sakura's first vote was by Chenoan who used a RV reason very similar to mine.  So Sakura's answers were poor and inaccurate.
 
@Syryana again...your "also reveals...scumhunting" look at Mutley is what I was referring to when I said he is capable of more contentful posts.  Which I said near the start of page 3.  I'm not expecting brilliant cases from anyone that early in the game.  As for who I suspect off Mutley's wagon...first hint would be who I'm voting.  It's still too early to tell who could possible be a 2nd (if there even is one).  I'm not a fan of Chenoan up to this point (who Sakura amusing defends later in the game) so he's a suspect.  They are all candidates at this point in the game. 
 
As for my questions that you quote from Post 71 and Post 73...they were asked to Sakura to prove a point on how absurd her "So speaking honestly is scummy" comment was.  Which I infer earlier in Post 71.  An admission that she would not confess to speaking dishonestly as scum (which she did not admit to) would show her baseless comment's uselessness.  I.e. everyone should be assumed to be speaking honestly unless they are scum who aren’t going to admit to speaking dishonestly.
 
@Syryana...so why are you voting me?  I think you need to change your Glade plug-in.
 
@Sakura...so you're getting "slight scum vibes" from me essentially because I am voting you with "little details" (aka reasons)?  Why would I drop my reasons for suspecting you?  Nothing has changed.  Is maintaining a continued suspicion on someone scummy?  As for the tunneling accusation...your attempt to implicate me back for my suspicions of you is laughable.  I'm still voting you because I suspect you the most.  If that changes...my vote will change.   
 

Okay so, I don't get fitz's suspicion of Sakura at all, but that's probably because I find fitz really suspicious and was wondering as I was reading along why no one else saw what I saw until Syryana came along and voiced some of the very thoughts I was thinking.

Well then see my responses above to Syryana.
 

The thing is fitz's vote with reasoning was awkward, and Sakura was asking the right question.  It wasn't about everyone else not joining a pressure wagon,

but why did fitz specifically go out of his way to vote someone who hadn't been voted already.

  I just can't believe a town!fitz wouldn't recognize that,

...my vote in RVS was an RVS vote.  Nothing more than that.  That was my random process for choosing who I voted.  And Sakura didn’t ask a question…she stated an observation in an accusatory manner that contradicted her very own actions.
 

and his going after Sakura and line of questioning just screams of going after an easy target.  For instance, Post 22 just comes across as

willfully misrepresenting

the situation to make an action look scummy that wasn't.

How am I misrepresenting anything?  You’re misrepresenting me by saying that.  Also…does anyone ever post in mafia against their will?  I.e. stupid accusation you “willfully” made.
 

The only thing that makes me wonder about Sakura is her moving to Nacho after basically being told she should in Post 23, but that's not really all that big a deal as

she doesn't look like nervous newbscum, but newbtown who's trying to figure things out.

  Oh also, the slight snarkiness in Post 26 warms my heart.

I’m glad Sakura warms your heart ….why does she not look nervous?  She gives a poor response to me that she admits to.  She uses not knowing how many it takes to lynch as an excuse for putting a second vote on someone (despite having just criticized me for not doing so) and when she realizes it take 7 instead of 5 to lynch…SHE PUTS A 4th VOTE ON NACHO!  So she was afraid to put a 2nd vote on anyone when she though it was 5 to lynch but has no problem (for no reasons other than “pressure” putting someone at L-3…which is what she would have been doing placing a 2nd vote on someone in a 9 person game.  Hello????
 

That fitz actually asks the questions he does in Post 71 and Post 73 is laughable as fitz is not new and these questions can't possible be considered productive by someone who isn't new.  And as fitz is not new, it just looks like he's being busy for the sake of it.

What’s laughable is that you do not realize why I asked them.  I answer the question above to Syryana but it should not need to be answered as the question shouldn't have been asked to begin with. It’s a lame excuse to cast suspicion on me.   Sakura made a baseless false accusation and I wanted to prove to her that is was baseless.
 

Why did you meta Mutley in particular?  Did you also meta Sakura?

Errrrrrrrr…..because I logged in yesterday and he was at L-2 early on page 3 which is ridiculous.  I wanted to see if he had any other games (scum or town) where he posted in a similar manner.  I only found two games (both town) and it appeared consistent IMO.  As I did not see any scum games his behavior in this game was at the very least null but in no way indicative of scum.  So is he scum?  Maybe.  Is he scum for the way he joked around and painfully dragged out people’s questions to him?  I do not think so.  And no…I didn’t meta Sakura.  I don’t typically use meta to find scum (unless it’s just something I recall about a person) and the only reason I did it with Mutley was because he seemed on the verge of a lynch. 
 

...had an early scum read on Bo based on what I think was an initial misinterpretation of Post 21 which I read as him wondering why Sakura wasn't on a pressure wagon that he wasn't even on.  But, re-reading that and in the context of the rest of his play,

it looks like he was wondering why she wasn't on it when Sakura had mentioned the importance of pressure wagons.

  Oh also Bo reached town status in Post 47 by making me giggle.

Glad you giggled…tee hee.  I hope my snarkiness warms you   So the bit in bold is the exact thing I started in on Sakura for.  Before DBK.  And he’s town for it.  Got it.
 

I feel like Sakura probably should've voted Bert or Laz if she wanted to get a pressure wagon started, but I really don't find that too important anymore. As I said, votes provide pressure, but if you don't do anything proactive about that pressure (after RVS), that strikes an issue with me.

Yeeeees…..brilliant.
 

Also, I actually went back and read Fitz's other things (when I'm on my phone, I usually only focus on questions asked to me directly), and I'm not finding Fitz's questions helpful for scumhunting. Asking her "what if she were scum" just seems like a dumb question.

It was to prove a point.  See responses to Syryana and Tammy for the same issue above.
 

87: I think the speed of the wagon is null too. I've seen all types of wagons build at this speed. Oh, and apparently Syryana got to post the Fitz thing before I did. Great.

I do not think a wagon going from zero to L-2 in a little over a page (35 posts) and in less than 4 hours is normal.  It screams mislynch wagon to me.  If it was later in the game and people’s suspicions were better founded…or there was some sort of mitigating evidence towards someone…sure…quicklynch away.  But in the early stages of D1?  No.  It is not null.  It might not be definitive but it is a lot stronger than null IMO.
 

I'm torn between pressuring Chenoan or Fitz first...hm...
Let's get Fitz.
VOTE: havingfitz
I want to hear his thoughts on what Syr and Tammy have said first.

Let’s pressure someone. (Oo oo…I’m under pressure…)
Let’s get Fitz (ie “get” me as in lynch me?  Or is that pressure?  To do what?)
Vote Fitz….
So when you say you want my thoughts first….to what does the first apply to?  Some action on your part?  My potential lynching?  :?

[havingfitz]

Weekend prod dodge.

[havingfitz]

OK…so a lot of posts to respond to since Friday.  For the ease of my response I’m going to

embed my responses in blue

and for the ease of board management I’ll spoilerize them.  Also…in consideration of the sensitivities some players seem to be having with my posting…the use of CAPITAL letters in my embedded responses infers emphasis.  Not yelling or antagonism   …FYI.
 

Spoiler: Response to Tierce

@Tierce...what "faulty logic" of mine was Sakura pointing out to me?  How about Sakura's faulty logic?

...
She was saying that your vote does not help the Town because you're just adding one vote to someone who doesn't have any,

and specifically pointing this out

. Tammy already told you this:

It wasn't about everyone else not joining a pressure wagon, but why did fitz specifically go out of his way to vote someone who hadn't been voted already.  I just can't believe a town!fitz wouldn't recognize that, and his going after Sakura and line of questioning just screams of going after an easy target.  For instance, Post 22 just comes across as willfully misrepresenting the situation to make an action look scummy that wasn't.

It’s not faulty logic to put a vote down in RVS that ISN’T on a wagon.

 
Sakura wasn't calling you scummy for this, she was pointing out that this is a useless behavior. Town does it all the time. However, you immediately jumped her for hypocrisy. Hypocrisy is not scummy (it's just a sign of lack of self-awareness), and it wasn't even what she was doing. She was pointing out that you went deliberately out of your way to make a useless vote:

[...]

you are the only one who said that wanted to vote someone else on your reasons.

How is pointing this out scummy?

First off….what vote in RVS isn’t useless?  Second…I didn’t say she was calling me scummy for it.  I took issue with the fact she was criticizing me for something that she herself had done.  i.e. Not joined a wagon.  And her subsequent reasoning for NOT joining an existing wagon makes even less sense given that she thought I should have.

 
She answered your questions where they were relevant. "Why didn't you go after those people [who presented different RVS reasons than I did]" is not relevant.

I took more issue with the fact she was calling me out for not joining a wagon moreso that the fact she didn’t question others who didn’t.  And as I said in an earlier post…I didn’t think her answers were adequate and apparently Sakura agreed.

 

And

[Muttleyddmc]

is in the middle of a 5 person speed wagon that I predict has a scum or two on it.
 

[...]

 
And IMO the Mutley vote on

[Sakura Hana]

is much less opportunistic (as you

[Tierce]

accuse him of) then the votes on his wagon.

Why are you sidestepping the Mutley wagon? You're calling the wagon scum-fueled, but not doing anything beyond that.
 
You're asking useless questions, and beyond being useless, they have an antagonistic, chip-on-your-shoulder tone.

What do you mean “sidestepping” the Mutley wagon?  By not supporting it and voicing my opinion that his behavior up to that point was null?  What beyond that do you expect?  And as you apparently have determined Mutley is a town read to you…what would have been my scum-motivation to try and slow down his ~impending lynch?  Early town cred?  No.  I would let him hang.  And my questions may be useless in your opinion but not mine.  Maybe I should just call people boring and mention puppies.  Would that help find scum?  I could giggle too…that seem popular.  Or perhaps reference air fresheners?  All good alternatives to pointing out baseless accusations (i.e. what Sakura was doing).

 
Post 68 and Post 71 and Post 73--what was the goal here? To get Sakura Hana to admit that she would lie as scum?

Yay!

Where is the follow-up? You move on to Does Bo Know on the next posts and Post 124 doesn't show how these questions were useful to you on scumhunting Sakura:

As for my questions that you quote from Post 71 and Post 73...they were asked to Sakura to prove a point on how absurd her "So speaking honestly is scummy" comment was.  Which I infer earlier in Post 71.  An admission that she would not confess to speaking dishonestly as scum (which she did not admit to) would show her baseless comment's uselessness.  I.e. everyone should be assumed to be speaking honestly unless they are scum who aren’t going to admit to speaking dishonestly.

How does this help you read Sakura's alignment in

this

game? Her comment was 'absurd', and so what? Why wouldn't she make such a comment as Town? How does "proving a point" mean

anything

regarding her alignment that she would answer differently if she were Town or scum?

I viewed Sakura’s honestly comments as her trying to implicate anyone she could for any reason she could…as shown by her throwing out a baseless accusation towards Mutley (though I did not know who she was referring to when I first questioned her on it).

 

and his going after Sakura and line of questioning just screams of going after an easy target.  For instance, Post 22 just comes across as

willfully misrepresenting

the situation to make an action look scummy that wasn't.

[...]

  Also…does anyone ever post in mafia against their will?  I.e. stupid accusation you “willfully” made.

See above in the antagonistic behavior bit. You're a reasonable, collected player as Town. What's with the prickliness?

Are you providing a meta assessment of me?  You obviously don’t know me well because I can frequently get “prickly”…especially when town defending myself from stupid attacks.  The fact you are not aware of this shows you have no idea to what you refer.
 
Can you provide a few one liners on why you are voting me?

 
 
 
 

[havingfitz]

Spoiler: Response to Tammy

 As for who I suspect off Mutley's wagon...first hint would be who I'm voting.  It's still too early to tell who could possible be a 2nd (if there even is one). 

Oh look at me I'm town, I don't know how many scum there are!  Like, is this a serious statement?  Even if the setup wasn't in the second post of the game, are you seriously trying to pass off that you thought it possible that there was only one scum in a 12-person game?  Micros have two; hell even 5p vengefuls have two.

Way to be completely off the mark Tammy.  Good job if that’s what your intention was.  FYI, I’m only referring to the number of scum potentially off of Mutley’s L-2 wagon.  Not in the game.  Good stuff.
 
(And to clarify to whomever reads this far…when I say “off Mutley’s wagon” I’m talking about people who were ON his wagon.  Such as Sakura and Chenoan)

 

As for my questions that you quote from Post 71 and Post 73...they were asked to Sakura to prove a point on how absurd her "So speaking honestly is scummy" comment was.  Which I infer earlier in Post 71.  An admission that she would not confess to speaking dishonestly as scum (which she did not admit to) would show her baseless comment's uselessness.  I.e. everyone should be assumed to be speaking honestly unless they are scum who aren’t going to admit to speaking dishonestly.

 

No  for Sakura’s comments here?

 
 

Okay so, I don't get fitz's suspicion of Sakura at all, but that's probably because I find fitz really suspicious and was wondering as I was reading along why no one else saw what I saw until Syryana came along and voiced some of the very thoughts I was thinking.

Well then see my responses above to Syryana.

Didn't help.  I still can't follow your train of thought at all.  It still looks like you're attacking an easy target and assigning an alignment rather than trying to figure out her alignment.  Take the example above.  Your blowing out of proportion what looks like an immediate flippant response to a

silly scum tell

doesn't make sense to me.  And that you are using it as part of your attack against her is even more mind-boggling.  

I believe you are speaking honestly when you say your mind is boggled.  What silly scum tell are you referring to?

 

The thing is fitz's vote with reasoning was awkward, and Sakura was asking the right question.  It wasn't about everyone else not joining a pressure wagon,

but why did fitz specifically go out of his way to vote someone who hadn't been voted already.

  I just can't believe a town!fitz wouldn't recognize that,

...my vote in RVS was an RVS vote.  Nothing more than that.  That was my random process for choosing who I voted.  And Sakura didn’t ask a question…she stated an observation in an accusatory manner that contradicted her very own actions.

Well forgive me, she made the correct observation in an accusatory manner concerning your rvs vote and reasoning.  Why were you going out of your way to vote someone who hadn't been voted yet.  If you had made a silly joke, it probably wouldn't have garnered attention.  I know when I was reading along, I had the same question about your vote.  And it's a perfectly fine question or observation in an accusatory manner to make to get the ball rolling.  I'm still surprised that you can't see that, and I think if you were town you would recognize that as a valid way to begin the game.  People ask questions about their rvs votes and reasoning all the time, this is nothing new.

I wouldn’t say my vote was a silly joke.  It was the random reason I chose to use.  I could have gone alphabetical and voted awestfie.  I could have not given any reason at all.  I chose to pick someone I have had a few games with lately and used their lack of a vote as a reason.  It’s not an issue.  What is an issue IMO was the decision of Sakura to call me out on my vote for something she had done as well (ie not pressuring anyone) which she has only compounded on my suspicions towards her with her subsequent play.

 

and his going after Sakura and line of questioning just screams of going after an easy target.  For instance, Post 22 just comes across as

willfully misrepresenting

the situation to make an action look scummy that wasn't.

How am I misrepresenting anything?  You’re misrepresenting me by saying that.  Also…does anyone ever post in mafia against their will?  I.e. stupid accusation you “willfully” made.

She did answer your question.  You were the only person who stated they were purposefully voting for someone who wasn't voting anyone.  Your post looks like a purposeful misrepresentation of what had happened rather than a simple misinterpretation. 

Already discussed this a few times but again…I didn’t like her first response and she apparently agreed.

 
 

The only thing that makes me wonder about Sakura is her moving to Nacho after basically being told she should in Post 23, but that's not really all that big a deal as

she doesn't look like nervous newbscum, but newbtown who's trying to figure things out.

  Oh also, the slight snarkiness in Post 26 warms my heart.

I’m glad Sakura warms your heart ….why does she not look nervous?  She gives a poor response to me that she admits to.  She uses not knowing how many it takes to lynch as an excuse for putting a second vote on someone (despite having just criticized me for not doing so) and when she realizes it take 7 instead of 5 to lynch…SHE PUTS A 4th VOTE ON NACHO!  So she was afraid to put a 2nd vote on anyone when she though it was 5 to lynch but has no problem (for no reasons other than “pressure” putting someone at L-3…which is what she would have been doing placing a 2nd vote on someone in a 9 person game.  Hello????

How does that translate as nervous?  She seems a little uncertain, and the only thing that bothered me was her voting for Nacho after Bo told her too.  But I can also see that as a new person getting adjusted.  You're also acting like she went from being "afraid" to putting a second vote on someone to

doing it without someone saying that it was a good thing to do.

 

IMO it looks a lot more nervous than the “not nervous” you are calling it.  And I gave my reasons.  You don’t think “uncertain” is synonymous with nervousness?   And you give her a pass on her move to nacho which I am not inclined to do.  And I don’t even know what the bit in bold is referring to.

 
 

That fitz actually asks the questions he does in Post 71 and Post 73 is laughable as fitz is not new and these questions can't possible be considered productive by someone who isn't new.  And as fitz is not new, it just looks like he's being busy for the sake of it.

What’s laughable is that you do not realize why I asked them.  I answer the question above to Syryana but it should not need to be answered as the question shouldn't have been asked to begin with. It’s a lame excuse to cast suspicion on me.   Sakura made a baseless false accusation and I wanted to prove to her that is was baseless.

Is this the rvs thing still?  Are you serious?

Are you serious?  No…this has nothing to do with RVS.  Comprehension is key.

 

Why did you meta Mutley in particular?  Did you also meta Sakura?

Errrrrrrrr…..because I logged in yesterday and he was at L-2 early on page 3 which is ridiculous.  I wanted to see if he had any other games (scum or town) where he posted in a similar manner.  I only found two games (both town) and it appeared consistent IMO.  As I did not see any scum games his behavior in this game was at the very least null but in no way indicative of scum.  So is he scum?  Maybe.  Is he scum for the way he joked around and painfully dragged out people’s questions to him?  I do not think so.  And no…I didn’t meta Sakura.  I don’t typically use meta to find scum (unless it’s just something I recall about a person) and the only reason I did it with Mutley was because he seemed on the verge of a lynch.

Wait so what you're saying is you came in here, saw mutley at L-2 and hopped to it to do some meta research on him, but didn't meta the person you are actually pushing as scum? 

I don't get that.  I mean I get not metaing people because I don't always do that either,

but if you're going to meta someone to see how they actually behave why wouldn't you meta the person who's lynch you're pushing?  And it didn't look to me like he was actually in danger of being lynched on page three.

What don’t you get?  You admit you don’t typically use meta to find scum…so why do you have an issue with me not using it on sakura?  I explained why I did it on Mutley.  IMO his wagon was moving extremely fast for so early in the game and if I didn’t see anything  suspect in a quick look over some of his other games I was not going to sit by and not say anything.  Just because I choose to meta one person in a game doesn’t oblige me to meta anyone else it it.

 

...had an early scum read on Bo based on what I think was an initial misinterpretation of Post 21 which I read as him wondering why Sakura wasn't on a pressure wagon that he wasn't even on.  But, re-reading that and in the context of the rest of his play,

it looks like he was wondering why she wasn't on it when Sakura had mentioned the importance of pressure wagons.

  Oh also Bo reached town status in Post 47 by making me giggle.

Glad you giggled…tee hee.  I hope my snarkiness warms you   So the bit in bold is the exact thing I started in on Sakura for.  Before DBK.  And he’s town for it.  Got it.

Uh...no.  I never said he was town for that.  Where did you even get that?  I had an original leaning scum read on him based on that, which I initially interpreted as selective scumhunting.  However, as I read along, that initial impression didn't match up with the rest of his posts, which I was leaning town on.  When I went back and re-read that initial interaction I realized he only asked Sakura about it because Sakura herself brought up the pressure.

Where do I even get that?  How about when you say after reading Bo more closely you realized “it looks like he was wondering why she wasn't on it when Sakura had mentioned the importance of pressure wagons. “ which you use to support your point about going from an early scum read to a town read on him.  No…you don’t say DBK said this so therefore I think he is town but you DO infer it was part of the reasoning you changed your opinion towards him and that which you came to the realization of above is part of the issue I had with Sakura as well.  Before DBK.  Yet it supports your town read on him.  WTF?
 
Also, can you provide a few one liners on why you are voting me?

 

[havingfitz]

Spoiler: Response to Syryana

 

@Syryana...I didn't think the answers were acceptable/made sense...i.e. I didn't think they answered my questions.  Which apparently Sakura agreed with.  And btw...her second response was unacceptable as well.  She says she didn't want to risk a quicklynch and yet she had issue with me not adding to someone's wagon.  And as for her initial answer to the second question...it was not true...the very next vote after Sakura's first vote was by Chenoan who used a RV reason very similar to mine.  So Sakura's answers were poor and inaccurate.
 
@Syryana again...your "also reveals...scumhunting" look at Mutley is what I was referring to when I said he is capable of more contentful posts.  Which I said near the start of page 3.  I'm not expecting brilliant cases from anyone that early in the game.  As for who I suspect off Mutley's wagon...first hint would be who I'm voting.  It's still too early to tell who could possible be a 2nd (if there even is one).  I'm not a fan of Chenoan up to this point (who Sakura amusing defends later in the game) so he's a suspect.  They are all candidates at this point in the game.
 
As for my questions that you quote from Post 71 and Post 73...they were asked to Sakura to prove a point on how absurd her "So speaking honestly is scummy" comment was.  Which I infer earlier in Post 71.  An admission that she would not confess to speaking dishonestly as scum (which she did not admit to) would show her baseless comment's uselessness.  I.e. everyone should be assumed to be speaking honestly unless they are scum who aren’t going to admit to speaking dishonestly.
 
@Syryana...so why are you voting me?  I think you need to change your Glade plug-in.

Except you dodged the shit out of my question in the first place. How does showing the absurdity in Hana-san's posts indicate her alignment, or help you figure it out? Absurdity isn't a scumtell. I don't think I've seen a question from you that has actually been useful in terms of ferreting out alignment. My Glade plug-in is just fine.

What question did I dodge the shit out of?  I’ve explained why Sakura’s “absurd” post is indicative of alignment.  It gives me added cause to suspect her because it was a baseless attempt at pointing suspicions towards someone IMO (Mutley in this case). 

 

I’m glad Sakura warms your heart ….why does she not look nervous?  She gives a poor response to me that she admits to.  She uses not knowing how many it takes to lynch as an excuse for putting a second vote on someone (despite having just criticized me for not doing so) and when she realizes it take 7 instead of 5 to lynch…SHE PUTS A 4th VOTE ON NACHO!  So she was afraid to put a 2nd vote on anyone when she though it was 5 to lynch but has no problem (for no reasons other than “pressure” putting someone at L-3…which is what she would have been doing placing a 2nd vote on someone in a 9 person game.  Hello????

That's one hell of a misrep, sir. She didn't vote for

Nacho

because she thought it would put him at L-1. She didn't try to make another bandwagon because she was busy voting for

you

.

Where is there a misrep?  You accusing me of a misrep is a misrep in itself.  I didn’t say anything about her not voting Nacho for fear of putting him at L-1.  What are you even talking about?  Read the quote above a little slower if necessary.  I only mention her vote that puts Nacho at L-3.  I never mention L-1 wrt anything she is doing. 

 
 

That fitz actually asks the questions he does in Post 71 and Post 73 is laughable as fitz is not new and these questions can't possible be considered productive by someone who isn't new.  And as fitz is not new, it just looks like he's being busy for the sake of it.

What’s laughable is that you do not realize why I asked them.  I answer the question above to Syryana but it should not need to be answered as the question shouldn't have been asked to begin with. It’s a lame excuse to cast suspicion on me.   Sakura made a baseless false accusation and I wanted to prove to her that is was baseless.

No, you didn't. You claim you want to reveal absurdity which in no way indicates alignment one way or the other. Sort of like the rest of the questions you've been posing to her.

Discussed above.

 

Why did you meta Mutley in particular?  Did you also meta Sakura?

Errrrrrrrr…..because I logged in yesterday and he was at L-2 early on page 3 which is ridiculous.  I wanted to see if he had any other games (scum or town) where he posted in a similar manner.  I only found two games (both town) and it appeared consistent IMO.  As I did not see any scum games his behavior in this game was at the very least null but in no way indicative of scum.  So is he scum?  Maybe.  Is he scum for the way he joked around and painfully dragged out people’s questions to him?  I do not think so.  And no…I didn’t meta Sakura.  I don’t typically use meta to find scum (unless it’s just something I recall about a person) and the only reason I did it with Mutley was because he seemed on the verge of a lynch.

Uses meta to figure out Mutley
Doesn't use meta to figure out his primary scumspect
Doesn't use meta to find scum
Does not compute

You’re obviously working with an inferior computer.  This has already been addressed to Tammy a few times.

 

87: I think the speed of the wagon is null too. I've seen all types of wagons build at this speed. Oh, and apparently Syryana got to post the Fitz thing before I did. Great.

I do not think a wagon going from zero to L-2 in a little over a page (35 posts) and in less than 4 hours is normal.  It screams mislynch wagon to me.  If it was later in the game and people’s suspicions were better founded…or there was some sort of mitigating evidence towards someone…sure…quicklynch away.  But in the early stages of D1?  No.  It is not null.  It might not be definitive but it is a lot stronger than null IMO.

Page 2 Wagon at L-2 on Town by Town in Less than Four Hours
 
No scum were on that wagon, it was completely town driven. You insisting wagon speed is indicative of being a scum-driven mislynch is ludicrous.

You finding one example doesn’t make it normal.  I’m stating an opinion about the speed with which Mutley’s wagon grew.  Your example doesn’t change that opinion.  If I find an example where a quick wagon build up on D1 is on town with scum is your opinion going to change?  Because I have a few very recent examples….one of which interestingly enough where the D1 quicklynch  wagon was on YOU and a game which also included DBK and awestfie in it…in addition to me.  Seems like you would recall that game?????? WTF?

 

I'm torn between pressuring Chenoan or Fitz first...hm...
Let's get Fitz.
VOTE: havingfitz
I want to hear his thoughts on what Syr and Tammy have said first.

Let’s pressure someone. (Oo oo…I’m under pressure…)
Let’s get Fitz (ie “get” me as in lynch me?  Or is that pressure?  To do what?)
Vote Fitz….
So when you say you want my thoughts first….to what does the first apply to?  Some action on your part?  My potential lynching? 

You trying to paint Bo as scummy for pressuring you or something? Like, the fuck?
 
This guy needs to eat rope.
 
Catchup post part three coming soon to a mafia forum near you!

I hate the “needs to eat rope” phrase.  It’s stupid.  But I digress.  Where do I try to paint DBK as scummy?  I’m asking him to clarify his post.
 
Also, can you provide a few one liners on why you are voting me?

 
And…
 

Tierce wall and Tammy wall are good walls.

How buddy buddy of you.
 
 
 

[havingfitz]

Spoiler: Response to Does Bo Know

Continuing from 121:
 
124: Fitz’s catch-up. Firstly, Glade is probably a trending topic in this game. Secondly, Fitz is really not doing well in defending his logic.

His first point to Syryana isn’t good; maybe Sakura didn’t want to vote Nacho because it was already a considerably large wagon, as opposed to earlier, when there wasn’t one.

His reasons for 71 and 73 still haven’t shown why they help scumhunting, and don’t add to his case on Sakura.

Why are we bringing up Nacho here?  I asked her why she didn’t vote Bert or Lazurial.  So WTF?

 
Basically strawmanning Sakura some more, making her look like her actions are much worse than they actually are, yadda yadda

Where?

 
You can’t tell me L-2 in

35

pages

posts

 is automatically not null (I’m assuming when you say it can’t be null, that there’s a scum on it). So, here’s the deal: if at some point this game you flip scum, Fitz, I’m gonna look more closely at this L-2 wagon on Mutley for the next scum, and use PoE and associative tells to make this super easy for us. It’ll be grand.

Fixed….35 posts…not 35 pages.  If you think a wagon that fast is not suspicious (ie null) your at best sadly mistaken and at worst…scum.

 
Also, making assumptions that I’m out to get you. My vote was because I wanted to put some more pressure on you to answer to the cases presented, and from there, I would either remove the vote and do something else, or pressure you more with questions. I feel like the reason you think it sounds like I want you lynched, is because you’re trying to paint me as scummy. (And as a bonus, you don’t even directly say I’m scum, so it’s not even that firm of a stance.)

Where do I make an assumption that you’re out to get me (aside from the obvious fact that you are voting me and said “Let’s get Fitz”   I wanted you to clarify your comments…which you do here…?  So you’re accusing me of making an assumption and not directly stating it?  I may of may not at some point in the game feel like you are scum but it isn’t at this moment.
 
Also, can you provide a few one liners on why you are voting me?

…

 
 

[havingfitz]

That fitz actually asks the questions he does in Post 71 and Post 73 is laughable as fitz is not new and these questions can't possible be considered productive by someone who isn't new.

I actually didn't have a problem with Fitz asking those questions.

Why are so many people thinking those questions were bad?
 

How am I misrepresenting anything?  You’re misrepresenting me by saying that.  Also…does anyone ever post in mafia against their will?  I.e. stupid accusation you “willfully” made.

The bitterness in Fitz's catch up post is astounding. Why are you acting the way you are?
 
To answer this, I don't think you correctly understand what Tammy meant when she said you were willfully misrepresenting.
It isn't whether someone is being forced to post.
 

I like the Fitz wagon

but I am an entrepreneur. I think his reaction to Tammy and Syr and most recently Bo have been caustic and angry and it doesn't make me think he is town.

As you point out…there is nothing wrong with those questions.    People are trying to make something out of nothing.
 
I’m not acting any way.  This is me.  I’m not bitter about anything as this is just an online game.  I will say I am not a big fan of stupid and if that comes across as bitter…   If I get mislynched I’ll move on to the next game and hope town can find scum in my accusers. 
 
Wrt “willful”….everything I do in this game is willful.  Therefore to accuse me of doing something willfully makes no sense.  I could "accidentally" do something but that is not what is being said.
 
So why do you like my wagon?  Seeing as you are ok with my questions to Sakura which for pants-on-head reasons seems to be a big part in some efforts to make me out to be scum.

[havingfitz]

WAIT FITZ ARE YOU DOWN WITH LYNCHING SYRNANAS

Idk...possibly. I've been so busy debating my suspicions of Sakura against the people voting me I haven't had a chance to think about others.

[havingfitz]

fitz

What?

You don't care about them who?

[havingfitz]

@DBK...

No...your assumption on perceived comments from me wrt Sakura voting Nacho is wrong.  My quicklynch comments bolded in Post 124 are in regards to Sakura's Post 26.

As for my points against Sakura...how am I exagerating them?  And if I am suspicious of someone and willing to pursue their lynch...I'm not going to underemphasize my case on them.  So...?

As for a scum driven wagon on Mutley...nowhere do I say it unequivocally is scum driven.  I don't infer any absolutes with it.  So whay would you think I'm not "consider that chance" that the Mutley wagon isn't scum driven?  I say I "predict" the Mutley wagon has a scum or two on it.  Do I have to state the opposing possibility exists for every suspicion I bring up?  I would think that is a given short of an investigation results (and that is only an example and is not intended to be construed as rolefishing).  I'm basing my opinion on my own experiences.

As for your "Let's get Fitz" comment I only bring that up because you are saying I'm making the assumption that you are out to get me.  While that was not on my mind when I asked you for clarification about the last part of your Post 115, I do find it amusing that your interest in "getting me" would be an issue consider your comments and your vote on me.  off the top of my head...those comments being:

"Lets get Fitz"
"Vote:Fitz"

and

"I like Fitz as a top scum candidate"

How can you deny you are "out to get me?"

Since you are saying "Lets get Fitz" & "Vote:Fitz" don't imply a desire to lynch me...what changed between that comment and  this one - ""I like Fitz as a top scum candidate?"

So I am scum fypov because you don't agree with my case on Sakura and because of my confidence that Mutley's wagon was scum driven?

That ridiculous.  If you don't want to agree with my case on Sakura that's fine...but the second reason makes no sense at all (as explained ealier in this post).  Let me ask this...assuming Mutley turns out to be town of course..

.do you think a 0 to L-2 wagon early on D1 in ~4 hours is more or less likely to have scum on it ("one or two" as I described it)?

 

As for my reasons for intially voting, and maintaining my vote on, Sakura...

- Initially reason was for the perceived contradiction in her expecting me to vote a wagon while she herself failed to (and pressure).

- Her willingness to vote Nacho for nothing more than pressure and put him essentially in the same position (L-3) that she was averse to putting someone in when she excused/defended her first vote to me.

- I didn't care for her Post 67 insinuation that someone (turned out to be Mutley) was saying she was scummy for speaking honestly (which was followed by my popular line of questions to establish how silly this statement was and therefore that it was a baseless accusation...ie suspect).

- What is essentially an OMGUS Vote on me.

And more recently:

- Her characterization of Chenoan based on four posts ????

- Her recent awkward push on Lazurial...

[havingfitz]

Hey fitz, since you love this post so much imma point one thing you keep overlooking then.

Ops, my bad, you're right.

Because there was still quite a lot of people who hadn't posted their RVS

and i didnt want to risk a wagon building so fast that the scum could jump in and quicklynch, is that a better answer for you?

Now where's the contradiction?, iirc by the time i added pressure to Nacho's wagon everyone had already voted had they not?

1) your comments above are not pertaining to your vote on Nacho, they're about you not voting Bert or Lazurial; and,
2) since you brought your Nacho vote up...there were still three players who hadn't voted (granted..Nacho was one of the them).

So who's overlooking things?

[havingfitz]

^ I didn't call Mutley's wagon baseless and it didn't have to achieve a quick lynch to be suspect IMO.

Does my spoilered response to Tierce on the previous page make sense?

[havingfitz]

Hey Tammylicious...quit fcuking off and respond to my spoiler especially dedicated to you. Pretty please.

[havingfitz]

Stronger scum reads on Fits and Laz. But something about the fitz wagon feels really off.

What is your scum read on me based on and if I am in your top two suspects...what about my wagon feels off?

[havingfitz]

Prod dodge.

Will get back in here when I can.

[havingfitz]

havingfitz I don't mean to be rude but I can guarantee you that the strategy of not posting until heat dies down isn't going to work.

Being wrong isn't rude. My lack of presence atm isn't "strategy"...it's lack of time based. Should be able to catch up in here tonight.

[havingfitz]

i've seen you have been busy replying to other games instead of here, so might as well increase the pressure

This is not true. I have been underposting in all my games the last few days. And just because I get a chance to make a comment in one game doesn't mean another game will get the same.

Should have time for in here tonight.

[havingfitz]

Would be happy with a fitz,

chen or laz

lynch

You're welcome

Seriously....wtf?

---

I seriously don't even know what to say at the moment. I feel a few days out of sync because of RL and I'm not even sure what the case on me is other than people don't think my suspicions of Sakura were warranted.

Does anyone thinking of voting me have any questions for me?

Would anyone voting me care to explain why? I know I asked a few people already but I'm not sure if anyone answered. I'll look after this post.

[havingfitz]

I was stating why I thought havingfitz was one of the weaker players

WTF?

[havingfitz]

I also did go back to NY146 where we played together and I was town and he was scum. Unfortunately the first 4? days was eaten by tigers, so I can't look back to his start in that game and I was a late game replacement.

So if the first 4 days were eaten by tigers how do you

know this

:

I

n NY146 he tunneled on a newer player that was an easy target for pretty much the entire game.

And in that game he protected his partners, which is why his metaing mutley, but not his scum read has got me wondering about him even more.

And to whom do you refer? Deasvail or Palisades? Because I was on Palisades for most of D1 and 2 (when he got lynched). And I stayed on him because I had support. He got to L-2 on D1 before a modkill on another player allowed him to make it to D2 where he was lynched. So not the same thing here. And if you are referring to Deasvail you're just wrong. Especially "for pretty much the entire game."

I'm bothered by the way he's reading Sakura because it looks like he's going after an easy target

If Sakura is such an easy target where are my scumbuddies? If I was scum...do you (or anyone) really think I would go down with the ship on a player everyone else seems to be giving a pass on. BTW...a quick look at my last several scum games shows me that I do not tunnel town on D1....I mix it up. The closest I came to not mixing it up was in the gmae you mention above....where most everyone agreed with me.

[havingfitz]

You say Hana-san is scummy because she doesn't want to put a second vote on Nacho when she thinks it's a micro but when she finds out it isn't a micro she doesn't mind putting a 4th vote on him (L-3 in both cases). You're misrepping the fuck out of her (she didn't put vote #2 on Nacho because she was voting you).

This is a lie. You are making this up. Try reading slower. The Glade plug-in is stuck in one of your orifices I think.

"I don't typically use meta to find scum" followed by "I used meta to evaluate Mutley because he seemed on the verge of a lynch" is a crock of shit.

It's not a crock of shit...it's what I did.

You're scum
You're not scumhunting

No.
Sakura is scum.

[havingfitz]

No.
Sakura is scum.

I still wonder what makes you think this? I mean seriously, I don't even know what to say to you anymore, since you disregard everything i tell you and make it a reason for you to think i'm scum, yet who's the one doing scumhunting here?

OK sheep.

---

Why are you replying to this and not actually things that have to do with this game?

I'm replying to it because you are discussing it in THIS game and are using it to try and indicate a tell on me...which I have shown to be inaccurate.

But it doesn't matter because you pretty much pointed out here that you go after easy targets. Palisade was an easy target, but so was DV.

The difference is...Palisades was getting support from most of the other players in the game. If I was scum trying to mislynch Sakura I would have moved on to a different wagon by now.

---

Vote: Havingfitz

Hey Laz...why are you voting me?

---

am somewhat concerned that her vote seems to be following public sentiment of who is scummy. Following the crowd is not an uncommon trait among scum.

Just keep looking the other way though.

---

ierce effectively shredded fitz

Since when did making a long misguided case on town become shredding? Seems more to me like putting a lot of effort into being wrong.

---

Havingfitz is at L-1 the last I saw. I'd prefer to let him respond than hammer him. As well as that I tend to not vote that much. ....self meta but true.

Fitz give Sakura-scum case

in 4 sentences or less.

As for my reasons for intially voting, and maintaining my vote on, Sakura...

- Initially reason was for the perceived contradiction in her expecting me to vote a wagon while she herself failed to (and pressure).

- Her willingness to vote Nacho for nothing more than pressure and put him essentially in the same position (L-3) that she was averse to putting someone in when she excused/defended her first vote to me.

- I didn't care for her Post 67 insinuation that someone (turned out to be Mutley) was saying she was scummy for speaking honestly (which was followed by my popular line of questions to establish how silly this statement was and therefore that it was a baseless accusation...ie suspect).

- What is essentially an OMGUS Vote on me.

And more recently:

- Her characterization of Chenoan based on four posts ????

- Her recent awkward push on Lazurial...

---

Neither

Laz nor

Fitz seem to be defending themselves very well.

What points on me do you agree with that I have failed to defend properly?

[havingfitz]

VOTE: Syryana

There's your wagon Nacho.

I'll respond to a few posts if I'm not lynched before I get the chance.

[havingfitz]

Tierce...you know not what you speak of (or you're just being misleading).  Whether I agree with your assessment that I'm "organized" or not...how does that matter or apparent in this game?  And why would you think I am lost?  Because I said I don't know what to say at the moment?  That has nothing to do with being lost or organized.  It has to do with the fact I'm entirely focused on trying to avoid getting lynched (mislynched btw) and nothing else.  And with an overwhelming wagon on me it's looks to be a lost cause as I do not have to the to defend against everyone and I'm not sure it's going to matter.  Town on my wagon are sadly mistaken.

Tierce...KMA.  I hope you are town actually. 

Tierce...what do you want me to address that I haven't already addressed.  Your case on me is crap and I'm headed towards my first D1 mislynch (iirc).  Sweet.

Laz...what parts of Tierce's case on me do you agree with?  Instead of just going Baaaa actually state them.  If it's not too much trouble to put you through

I probably left out a few responses that warranted response.  If so...their owners can restate them.

Suspects for me would be Syryana, Sakura (though I am starting to feel overly stubborn wrt her) and.....Rufflig.  I assume at least one scum is not on my wagon and his worthless vote on T S O seems like a cop out.  Why list Laz as a person of interest but put a vote bound to do nothing on T S O? 

I'm leaning town on Tammy...she's just bad.  And tired....giggles.

Assuming I only have 1 or 2 of the three above right I'm not sure who the other/s might be.  Possibly Laz.  dunno.  Only D1.

[havingfitz]

People getting cold feet. Don't vote someone if you don't want to get them at L-1 or hammered

Are you saying people's uncertainties can't fluctuate?

[havingfitz]

No they can. I felt there was no reason to for them to have changed their mind in this case. Other than being possible scum buddies

So the people who unvoted me are my scumbuddies and you support my wagon?

[havingfitz]

Also, can someone please explain how the goddamn fitz wagon died?

Can you explain why you support it?

Fitz: The tone of which he's employed recently is snarky an I've played with fitz before and his town meta is just ...townier.

WTF? This is only the 2nd game we have been in together and the other one is ongoing. Suffice to say, you have no personal experience on how I act as town or scum since you haven't been in a game where I've died.

[havingfitz]

Also, can someone please explain how the goddamn fitz wagon died?

Can you explain why you support it?

Fitz: The tone of which he's employed recently is snarky an I've played with fitz before and his town meta is just ...townier.

WTF? This is only the 2nd game we have been in together and the other one is ongoing. Suffice to say, you have no personal experience on how I act as town or scum since you haven't been in a game where I've died.

[havingfitz]

 

Also, can someone please explain how the goddamn fitz wagon died?

Can you explain why you support it?

Your ISO just gives me the shivers. You're far too aggressive early-game, starting a circle vote then giving out to someone for pressuring one person instead of a group....what? Your ISO continues on like this for some time, as opposed to our other game where you're calm and collected and decidedly less "WELL THIS IS HOW IT IS SO =|".

OK…you support my wagon because it gives you shivers?  Since you never gave any other rationale for voting me “shivers” it is.  So “too aggressive,”

what does “starting a circle vote then giving out to someone for pressuring one person instead of a group” even mean?

 Because I cannot figure it out.  My ISO continues on like what for some time?  Aggressive?  So you want me lynched because I’m aggressive, my ISO gives you shivers (possibly for being aggressive?) and because I started “a circle vote then giving out to someone for pressuring one person instead of a group”....what?   And really….shivers?
 
This makes no sense T S O.  I think you are voting me for no reason…because why bother coming up with one when almost everyone was up for me getting lynched.  Too much work making shit up…right!?

Fitz: The tone of which he's employed recently is snarky an I've played with fitz before and his town meta is just ...townier.

WTF?  This is only the 2nd game we have been in together and the other one is ongoing.  Suffice to say, you have no personal experience on how I act as town or scum since you haven't been in a game where I've died. 

I also believe your play is completely different here leading me to believe one is scum meta and one is town. And

although I haven't played in a game with you dead yet

user Tierce has stated that you are aggressive and tunnel new players as scum, which you have done

here and haven't in Hillbilly

.  Can you provide a real reason you were so aggressive early-game?

You claimed to know my town meta and based it on playing with me before.  How can you claim to know my town meta based on playing with me when you have not played with me in any games where you know my alignment????  And don’t sheep off Tierce’s opinion (who I actually think you mean to refer to Tammy). 
 
You claimed knowledge of me as town of which you have none.  I.e. your ‘making shit up’ isn’t computing. 
 
As for comparing this ongoing game with other ongoing games…that’s a no no.  All I’ll say is I’ve been aggressive in THIS game because I’ve been under attack for most of D1.  I get aggressive when I defend myself.  Which could explain why this game might differ from others I have played in.  And snarky is not aggressive btw…I’m probably snarky at some point in most of my games.
 

TL:DR;

  So yeah….T S O wasn’t really on my radar that much until my exchange with him this morning.    I really do not think his answers are acceptable.
 

---

And Ms Tierce...I do not think we can pass the Mutley stuff off to trolling.  I think it needs to be addressed.
 
We have someone who has received a fair amount of suspicion today claiming to be a daycop.  One problem with this is there doesn’t seem to be a daycop option in the game set-up.  There is a “Goon Cop” which I suppose could potentially work during the day instead of at night.  

And if there is a Goon Cop in the game who is not Mutley…please do not reveal yourself!

 

Mod…is the ability to work during the day as opposed to during the night something you can reveal with regard to the Goon Cop role that may or may not be in the game?

 
Another issue I have with Mutley’s claim is why?  He was under pressure early in the game but said nothing.  Now, when he doesn’t even have a single vote on him he decides to come out.  WTF?  And then you decide to investigate one of the players who seemed to doubt your claim (Tierce being the first I believe) and completely pass over the person you were voting ATT.  The person you were voting before him.  The person you were voting before him.  The person you were voting before him.  And the person you were voting before her who you recently expressed a willingness to lynch (me).   WTF?  But hey!  You (or your dog) picked right!  So you say.
 
I will say T S O’s response seemed a bit odd.  If someone claimed to have a guilty on me when I was in fact town…I would be a lot more “aggressive” than just saying “lol.” 
 
So I do not see how there is not a scum amongst T S O and Mutley, but I really don't like either of them for the way it has been handled.  Could Mutley be taking a suicide chance to steer attention towards T S O (buddies with Syryana?)?
 
So my 2 cents suggests we continue on with one of the existing non-fitz wagons (i.e. Syryana or Laz).  That forces scum (if Mut is telling the truth) to kill or RB him tonight.  If they kill him and he is in fact a daycop…bye bye tomorrow T S O.  If he isn’t killed…we have him do an inspection tomorrow on whoever the consensus top suspect is and then go from there.  At whatever point we decide to lynch Mutley or, if he’s legit, scum decides to kill him…we have confirmation on his targets, if he’s legit, or we’ve lynched a scum.

[havingfitz]

Wow that's really embarrassing for you fitz. You spent all that time talking about my clear joke claim. I even said that I had my dog do something to get my result

First off....people don't/ shouldn't joke about claims. What if there was a cop and he or she believed you enough to counter-claim. And your "joke" became not a joke as soon as you switched votes from Syryana to T S O.

But instead...no one pays you any attention (apparently because of their keen insight in realizing you're worthless, regardless of alignment) and the mod confirms there is no daycop right before you decide to come clean.

So why are you voting T S O?

Add yourself to the list of wagons I would support.

[havingfitz]

Mac...why are you voting me and what is your opinion on cases/suspicions towards Syryana?

[havingfitz]

Mutley, reading over your posts on this page shows how pathetic you are. That you would try to belittle people taking you for your word just goes to show what your word is worth. If we do ever wind up in a game together again I will remember what your word is worth. Your claim, vote on T S O and behavior afterwards has been one dick move after another. And I mean that. Anyone who has played on this site much knows how serious claims of any kind are taken. And to follow it up with a vote just added to your willingness to legitimize your claim in my opinion. That you mentioned a dog meant nothing as you are prone to asinine comments. Now I know you are prone to lying as well. If you have fake claimed before in other games I missed it in the limited amount of your meta I looked at. Equally disturbing is that your slick move is condoned either outright or by the silence of the other players. And it was not a move out of desperation to recommend everyone wait until tomorrow to decide what to do with you. Brilliant of you not to notice that.

Sorry Mod...I don't have RL time to waste in here with the kind of crap going on in this game. Please replace me.

Good luck to whatever alignment Mutley isn't.