8:4 Vanilla Nightless [TM2015] - GAME OVER

[Metal Sonic]

I am a Daycop. I have a guilty result on Sotty7. Please commence lynching of Sotty7.

VOTE: Sotty7

GreyICE, I've heard of you. They all talk about how you are a good scumhunter. Well, this is me experiencing it for myself.

[Metal Sonic]

Deadline is 4/9 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in 10 days, 6 hours, 44 minutes.

Am I mistaken or are deadline supposed to be like 14 days? Or at least 12 days?

[Metal Sonic]

Why would ZZZX understand Japanese? He's Indian. And as far as I know, ZZZXのバカ.

[Metal Sonic]

no

are you scum?

[Metal Sonic]

(also its about that both of us are learning jap basically)

It is plainly obvious that you're not too far in your Jap class.

[Metal Sonic]

No. I was sad about it until I knew you are in game.

you wanted to be scum? how many tokens did u put in?


i looked at this playerlist and i decided to not put any tokens lol

[Metal Sonic]

yea, nightless games are always better for town. because for every 1 scum lynch, scum must mislynch 2 pple good luck to them!!

[Metal Sonic]

I have a guilty on Sotty7. And GreyICE (A foreigner expert scumhunter, so I've heard) is voting there too. You should try it out.

[Metal Sonic]

foreigner

Disclaimer:

Myself and ZZZX come from the lands of Sonic. Occasionally, users such as Nachomamma and EddieFenix would come over and stay too (aka people I know).

In this latest episode, Sonic participates in a international prestige event where highly skilled players from around the world compete and fight for fame and glory! Therefore, the term "foreigner".

Word of user GreyICE has reached Sonic's all-knowing ears, and this is the perfect chance for Sonic to witness this for himself.

roleplay, okay? I like roleplay :3

[Metal Sonic]

yea the activity is digustingly low for a game start

[Metal Sonic]

its so disgusting that i even spelled disgusting wrong

how pantomimic!

[Metal Sonic]

its only page 2?? HELLO!! THIS IS A SITE-WIDE PRESTIGE GAME FFS

[Metal Sonic]

NACHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Metal Sonic]

YOU'RE HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LET ME GIVE YOU A WARM WELCOME!!!

[Metal Sonic]

Vote: Metal Sonic

i looked at this playerlist and i decided to not put any tokens lol

Playerlists were revealed after token submissions and alignments were assigned. So how did you come to assign your tokens after the fact?

(Nacho, you better be town here and make this way easier for me.)

i spent 5 tokens on game selection and my team got all our desired games.

cause i had no more tokens left to spend

[Metal Sonic]

i want to know if Hoopla can be considered a "legendary scumhunter"


Empire is probably town btw

[Metal Sonic]

nacho is automatically town by virtue of being nacho




and in spirit of the game I will limite my posting rates as well. usually I tend to post the most but as mentioned, that may not be the most considerate for some players in the game.


of course, all the players in team mafia should devote 100% of their time to the game so by right they should be able to eat more posts than the normal game ^_^ "

[Metal Sonic]

This does not resolve the dissonance here. Your phrasing in #18 says that the playerlist was a direct cause of your assignation of tokens. I'm saying that's impossible because the playerlist was the last bit of information we got.

dude i used "and" not "so".

its a coordinating conjunction not a subordinating conjunction.
its not a subordinate clause. semantically i could go anal but im not that kind of person.


so...

i guess i will have to admit

that I lied! tee hee!!!

[Metal Sonic]

@sonic have you done a nightless before? If so which allignment were you and did you win/lose? (i wana check something)

p-edit: empire looks fine but idk since i never played with empire (Fun fact: my first game here was modded by empire however)

i playeed on mafiascum a nightless on my 2nd game on this site. i was town and won. I was in a hydra with the retired demigod KX

[Metal Sonic]

and then me and bulbazak became BEST FRIENDS

JESUSBUDDHAVRISHNABESTFRIENDS

[Metal Sonic]

THE MORE TOWN I AM THE LESS YOU CAN TRUST WHAT I SAY



but this is a nightless so you can actually trust 90% of what i say

[Metal Sonic]

ayy i am too high tonight

too many questionable substances

i am going to bed

and sonic can go for war

good bye

[Metal Sonic]

Are you suggesting that we should quit the site if we lynch 3 scum? Do you mean that catching 3 scum is that difficult?

[Metal Sonic]

I've been checking the thread all day but wasn't posting because I should do a long one at the com.

Just came in to report that the above post was extremely scummy for the above reasons:

1. Not denying that GreyICE's claim is absurd and/or not denying that her own slot is scum.
A town response would be either to dismiss GreYICE or because of the moral right that one has received a town PM, thus does not see the need to answer slanderous accusations. Sotty7 is going in-between, by discrediting GreyICE, while doing so in an indirect manner to suggest imposition and avoid conflict.

2. Accusatory instead of content
"I think that GreyICE"... In response to a push. Instead of providing content on other players or making a stand, Sotty's response was to attack GreyICE ad-hominem rather than something built in logic and/or ignoring the libelous arguments against herself. In no manner is any indication made of GreyICE's conclusion being called out right or wrong -- avoiding the topic of alignment altogether.


I wish I could post more but it's tough on a phone. Made this coherent and concise as possible.

[Metal Sonic]

ffs get out of here wgeurts

[Metal Sonic]

Hi. Sonic resolves to make a post a day. This will be uncreatively called "Sonic's post of the day". It will be done on a computer. Sonic will only phonepost if there is a very pressing issue at hand that requires urgent response. This is a difficult resolution for me (for those who are familiar with me) so I hope you guys understand.

Neato. I'm going to assume I'm not being Epic Trolled right now and ask you what was your motivation to lie.

@Metal Sonic-Why did you feel the need to lie about your token selection for this game?

This does not resolve the dissonance here. Your phrasing in #18 says that the playerlist was a direct cause of your assignation of tokens. I'm saying that's impossible because the playerlist was the last bit of information we got.

dude i used "and" not "so".

its a coordinating conjunction not a subordinating conjunction.
its not a subordinate clause. semantically i could go anal but im not that kind of person.


so...

i guess i will have to admit

that I lied! tee hee!!!

Why?

I have no good reason for lying. It is an action that I perform as town, scum, and out-of-game. Fortunately, most of them are jokes and obvious jabs, therefore white lies which do not violate my basic principles. In short, it is an irrational action.

However, occasionally I lie on purpose. The intention is usually to protect a piece of important information, that may be disadvantageous to my cause if revealed publicly. In the current context, this is because my team wishes to keep our token distribution secret.

I'm here.

Vote: Metal Sonic

If I can make this happen, it will save me me so many headaches.

Who are you? I do not remember playing with you before.

How are you so confident on nacho already, I've got a light town read however the early game certainty is astonishing.

i was exaggerating. You should have inferred this from the quote "by virtue of being nacho". From your shallow question, I can infer that you are a weak scumhunter, if not scum.

Vote: Silverwolf

Serious vote.

Guessing you're not going to explain why.
VOTE: ABR
We're in a nightless and all info is relevant, hiding it is anti-town. I'm going to vote you until you say it was a joke or explain why it's serious.

I want to know the justification for wgeurts calling ABR out, but not GreyICE for the exact same action post.

I still think SW is scum and NOBODY tells me what to do. Nobody fucking strongarms me.

I don't give a flying fuck what you think.

Hell yeah. Badass. ABR is town; I believe that a generic scum would be careful not to draw much attention to himself. The above post is a good example of the opposite.

I don't give a flying fuck what you think.

Its a damn nightless. If you are acting like that then you dont deserve to live to lylo. thus you are a valid lynch.

simple as that.

With users like GreyICE, Nachomamma8, EddieFenix, Hoopla (contentious) and myself in the game, I don't think it's necessary for us to get to Lylo. If we are able to establish with confidence that the strongest players in the game are town, the Nightless will be a swift Town win.

Meanwhile, as for yourself, please continue to maintain your "townreads" from others. Personally, I don't think you can survive till Lylo either.

vote : sotty7

Serious vote.

@wegurts why did u ignore this post when its the same?

@wge answer my question

Exactly my thoughts. This means that ZZZX gets town points. The imaginary ones, y'know?

vote : sotty7

Serious vote.

@wegurts why did u ignore this post when its the same?

As I don't know GreyICE and it looked like one of those fake sarcastic funny RV reasons.
ABR on the otherhand is someone I've played quite a few games with, so I wasn't sure wether he was also joking.
Hence I asked him, I also said that him just saying it was a joke would be ok.
To be truthful I was hoping somebody would pounce on what you pointed out and push me, I was hoping on a reaction test but hey.

I'm also very weary of mis-lynching ABR.

This is a poor explanation. Apart from the fact that arguing from a meta perspective is poor, wgeurts fails to justify the following aspects of his action:

1. GreyICE and ABR performed exactly the same actions, apart from voting different people and having a different name. Why exactly did wgeurts phrase his post in such a manner: "We're in a nightless and all info is relevant, hiding it is anti-town. I'm going to vote you until you say it was a joke or explain why it's serious." a general sweeping statement "all info is relevant" while not addressing the personal aspects of why he voted ABR.

2. wgeurts is hypocritical when he mentioned "I'm going to vote you until you say it was a joke or explain why it's serious." Apart from voteparking being an extremely scummy action, the fact that he calls out ABR for being "anti-town." reflects his shallow attempts at scumhunting. This is the second time that I have observed wgeurts perform shallow scumhunting.

ABR, I also know you are

very

aware of your own meta. ...

I find it appalling how wgeurts refers to ABR in such a manner. A quick information check shows that Wgeurts joined late 2014, while ABR has been here since 2007. In addition, Wgeurts has 1500+ posts, while ABR has 10 times that.For this reason, I strongly agree with ABR's point that wgeurts is being disrespectful, and in fact this translates into scumminess for wgeurts as he does not make an obvious attempt to determine ABR's alignment.

Additional, I find it shocking how it appears that wgeurts expects ABR to respond nicely, when wgeurts initiated an attack with rudeness and obvious hypocrisy, as shown above.

UNVOTE:
That's a genuine point.

I find it distressing how wgeurts unvotes shortly (less than 1 page) after the backlash and reversal by ABR. This shows a lack of conviction on wgeurts' part, in failure to pursue ABR in order to reach an intended result or signs of a definitive alignment. wgeurts' did not proclaim that "ABR is town, I am done with my testing" or words of a similar impact before his unvote, rather he unvoted due to ZZZX's "That's a genuine point.". It appears that nothing constructive was gained from wgeurts' antagonization of ABR, and this further highlights the superficiality of wgeurts' actions.

@Empire
I don't know SilverWolf well enough to judge wether what ABR said is true. I said I would unvote after he gives a reason and he did so, so I unvoted.

In this post, wgeurts explains his unvote. Fair that he has obtained his intended result "A reason for a vote on Silverwolf", but what exactly is the rationale for wanting "only a reason"? Note that wgeurts makes no judgment on whether he is town or scumreading ABR at this point yet.

Fortunately, he clarifies it in here:

ABR my gut says is town.

Unfortunately, scum have daytalk (This is public information). If wgeurts is hypothetically scum, he would have had coaching from *possibly superior* teammates. Therefore, I feel that retroactively resolving logic does not net him as much town points as it would normally have.

<reads snip>

May I know why your readslist does not include wgeurts, one of the highest posters in the game, and GreyICE?

GreyIce:

-only kind of content posts are about tokens this token that.
-0 talk related to what happened in the thread. he just went in to say my spam is crap then never read the thread it seems
-has done a few scumtells.
-overall scummy

ಠ_ಠ

[Metal Sonic]

I don't know ICE however I've played 4+ games with ABR as scum and town. We've had a tendancy to clash in nearly all of these games which led eventually to the mis-lynch of him or me. I wanted to avoid this again so I decided to provoke him into playing out of his usual style. I'm hoping that doing so will lead to play that will reveal his alignment clearly to me. It was a reaction test you can say and two: GreyICE seemed to be making a joke, knowing ABR I however wasn't sure. If you read I also stated it was fine if he just explained it was joke RVS reasoning. In a nightless all info counts, I'm also wanting an explanation for Nacho's vote.

If you want to avoid this again, there is an option for you to swap positions with a teammate. On the contrary, if you were scum, it would be highly beneficial for ABR to be mislynched, rather, you would stay in and proceed to renact the same actions in order to encourage an ABR lynch.

It seems ironic how you wish to "avoid a clash" with ABR, yet you "provoke" him and start a quarrel? How protown that would be. Your words don't match up with your actions.

Read above, didn't vote him because I though he was scum: I voted him as a reaction test because I want to sort him quickly without too much hassle. I also, dislike unexplained votes and yes they are anti-town (notice, not scummy, town do it as well as scum) IMO.

Yes, reaction test, reaction test.

All explained above, also explained why I didn't do so for greyICE in an earlier post replying to ZZZX.

In order to prevent a "clash". I dunno, this is ABR and your domestic matter. As far as I am concerned, from an outside perspective you are performing actions that are contradictory to your intentions, which is a scummy action. Furthermore, in your interactions with other players, your scumhunting is shallow and superficial. Those are scummy as well. In all, you're scummy.

I do believe I also stated to ZZZX scum would pounce on the stuff you've pounced on as a sort of slayers gambit. You've attempted to falsely frame me, as expected from scum.

Slayer's Gambit.



I enjoy how your read on me has taken a 180 degree turn after I have put just a little pressure on you. There's more where that came from; a read reversal in response to powerful attacks are usually indicative of scum defensiveness.

[Metal Sonic]

Currently, I'm having wgeurts and Sotty as scumreads. At the moment, I feel that my vote on Sotty would be helpful to the efforts of GreyICE, and will assist him in his scumhunting endeavor.

[Metal Sonic]

There is no Metal Sonic wagon, there is only 'wgeurts OMGUS'. He's caught scum who is trying his best to retaliate right now. I don't think he knows who he's up against.

[Metal Sonic]

@ GreyICE and Nachomamma

read my points against wgeurts and see if you agree with them, they make sense or are insightful. Right now he's just discrediting them, but I don't really care about the words of the defendant.

[Metal Sonic]

wgeurts as unshakeable town reads at this point

.

[Metal Sonic]

Deadline is 4/9 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in 10 days, 6 hours, 44 minutes.

Am I mistaken or are deadline supposed to be like 14 days? Or at least 12 days?

[Metal Sonic]

Oi ms a special message from GIF:

STOP TUNNELING WGE. HE IS TOWN

May I ask why?

[Metal Sonic]

umm dude I don't actually think you can talk about the theMe game

[Metal Sonic]

It actually sounded like a rhetorical question though. Like those dudes giving a presentation or some salesman.

Strangely he didn't actually answer the question though, what he has done town. He just told a grandma story about theme game then took a huge dump on sotty

[Metal Sonic]

If you've done some closer reading you could tell from #207 that I have played with Eddie quite a number of times. Incidentally I give him quite a townread for that same post #207. Details upon request.


And no, I don't consider this lazy. So no, not lazy

[Metal Sonic]

finally cake lady is here


That's all the players I think

[Metal Sonic]

I have mixed feelings about the above

[Metal Sonic]

the above is inflammatory

[Metal Sonic]

Secondly, quit trying to be all, "look at me, I'm active! Look how town I am with my activity!!! Look how lazy he is!!!" You just add fuel to the fire.

i agree with this.

i'm hoping for a relaxed fun time with friends. i don't think adding pressure to the quality/quantity information individuals are producing is useful -- it harms the cohesion of the town.

I agree with the general sentiment of this. But because this is a competition of sorts, I want to play my best (or what I think is my best).

Also I think that Eddie's posts have all been quite town and I would like GreyICE to take 1 step back.

[Metal Sonic]

Sonic post of the day 2

That means I disagree!

He said that normally clashes end in the mislynch of either wgeurts or ABR. Why do you think scum-wg thinks he can clash with town-ABR and win?

Provoking him out of his playstyle was making a concentrated effort to read him so that he didn't accidentally mislynch him again, which is a fine continuation of thought from the original read.

I'm looking at the trajectory of his read on you now.

Let us assume that wgeurts is a competent player. (Note: I did half an hour's worth of metadiving in wgeurts. Although as town, he is very good as being obvious town, and rarely gets lynched late-game, most of the town games that he is in results in losses.)

It would be in scum-wg's best interests to emulate him town meta as far as possible, for obvious reasons. In this context, if town-wg and town ABR clashes and results in the mislynch of town ABR, by following town meta, scum-wg would be able to clash with town ABR and have the same effect. There could be a "oops! I did it again" mentality, I mean, nobody expects you to be scum if you mislynch him, because you did it as town. Two birds with one stone.

ZZZX, Empire and Nacho are all town.
ABR my gut says is town.
MS I'm taking others words for him being town until I see him giving some content that says otherwise.

This isn't a strong townread.

This is a waffle. "He may be town but he may not be town".

Metal Sonic: You can't just ignore a player because you frequently clash with them. Other than that, I don't see too many points.

I do that. If I think someone is scum, their words automatically are less credible to me. Why? Because if I'm right, then their words are toxic and should be ignored. If I'm wrong, WHOOPS.


On another note, "You can't just ignore a player because you frequently clash with them. " is a misrepresentation. "Frequently clash" suggests that I am ignoring a player because of playstyle reasons or meta reasons. GreyICE is suggesting that my issue with wgeurts is based on playstyle and meta? I only recall playing with wgeurts once, and that was in a bastard micro. By nature, it is useless meta.

I think Team Mafia is bringing out the wordy, and not sure I'm loving it.

Yeah, the purpose of these posts are to be wordy. Inspired by Nachomamma8's and Empire's "post less so that 'legendary scumhunters' can read more." I can be more concise. Just ask for an abridged version.

I haven't seen wgeurts dissect the game, pick it apart and isolate scum. If anything, he appears to be playing in his own sandbox, reacting to players who affect him, whether by reputation or by content in this game.

I'm glad someone else sees this. Shallow scumhunting. It's one of my two main points against wgeurts.

Meanwhile, wgeurts is like that guilty defendant, yelling to the prosecutor lawyer "You're lying! The prosecution is lying! False evidence! Help me!!!!!"

I don't buy this in the slightest.

What would you buy?

I'm not sure where you're going with this line of questioning. If the global policy is "Lynch all Liars", then fine, you've got a lynch on me. If you're a lie detector in this game, then congratulations, you've got a guilty. Unfortunately, none of those cases are true in this context. Why don't you explain to us the significance "after-the-fact rationalization"?

Assuming what you're saying about your team wanting to keep it a secret is true, why not just flat out say "my team does not want to discuss token assignments"?

When my contradiction isn't pointed out, it saves explanation. You know, like those annoying salesmen. Or perhaps when someone asks for your age and you say that you're some age even though your birthday hasn't actually passed yet.

Even if you don't know, that's irrelevant.

They were not on that list because I didn't have reads on them.

Why didn't you have a read on wgeurts, 2nd highest postcount in the game? What exactly was your read on me, it wasn't very clear except for some description about my mythomania.

Empire replaced out, I guess we'll never know.

I'd be a dirty dirty liar.

I'm a dirty dirty liar then !

I'll shred every sentence to dust.

Spoiler: This is how I slice

Spoiler: This is how you slice

Titus says that she's sure that MS is town as well.

Send my regards to Titus. Hope she's doing well in her game. <3

Metal Sonic (still gives me a headache)

Go take some aspirin. No idea who you are.

SCUM
Eddie (don't like posting)
SilverWolf (agree w/ ABR)

And you probably are the one giving us the headache with such garbage reasoning.

__


Everything is up to date.

[Metal Sonic]

late-game

*early-game.

This is how I slice*

*shred.

Whoops! Looks like I'm not reading your posts after all! Sue me.

[Metal Sonic]

why is wgeurts town can you please get Gif to explain.


Even if wgeurts is town I think he might cause the game to lose anyway


I should stop being a dirty, dirty liar:

I truly think that wgeurts scum at best, and even if town, his play is weak to the point of being a liability. I think that he should swap with a teammate to keep the "obvious town" status that some of you are giving him, before he begins to derail the town.

[Metal Sonic]

And with that, I have turned from a dirty dirty liar to a rude, insensitive and offensive liar!

Hooray...

[Metal Sonic]

He said "gutfeelingwise"

I'm reading it as "no good reason".

[Metal Sonic]

Metal Sonic, I take your recent posts on me as a challenge. I'm going to noe actually "shred" every sentence in the 2-3 posts that changed my read on you and I'm going to make sure I'm no "liability" so at the end of the game I can sit smugly.
The whole "you suck" also would be expected from scum, why?
Well I've already shown you're lying and have no actual content reasoning for pushing me. So you've resorted to attacking the player instead of his content. The post suggesting I swap out makes it seem you just want me PL'd. It almost seems as if you're not certain I'm scum, which I'm not and you as scum would know that.
I'm phoneposting but once I'm on a PC expect all you've said to be heavily scrutinised. All the falsified reasoning will be "shredded"

I accept your challenge.

[Metal Sonic]

seems like it's a whole-game thing. That explains the inactivity.

[Metal Sonic]

HELL YEAH!!!

[Metal Sonic]

well... Didn't Kagami say that she didn't want to play...?

[Metal Sonic]

;);)

[Metal Sonic]

^lol @ not having a read on me

[Metal Sonic]

So you think MS is town?

I am still thinking. read is weaker thou. i didnt like the exchange with you
reminds me with OC when he pushed marquis

dude

get gif to explain why wgeurts is town

i dont know why every1 is reading him as town


you know what? why doesnt anybody in the game explain to me why wgeurts is town?

but its fine. wgeurts didnt understand why i was town either. i think it is very funny if we are in the same boat






but i still think he still sucks at scumhunting so if we are both town he should sheep me

[Metal Sonic]

but he is scum

[Metal Sonic]

you mean you havent asked him yet????????

he was on site chat like half an hour ago

town points on you dropped a little bit.....

[Metal Sonic]

sadly, some people cant see the obvious

Metal Sonic (3) - Zar, Seraphim, wgeurts

thats why they need shepherds like us to guide them to the light



or, they could be scum.

[Metal Sonic]

^yeah that shockered me a bit

[Metal Sonic]

VOTE: Eddie
Ice has a very good point in 317, his reaction afterwards was also awful. He didn't even attempt to explain the inconsistency (like MS, however he just changes topic). Saying "you suck" isn't a valid defence.

MS is still a better vote though.

If you're town, you are going to ruin the game for us.


"You suck" may not be a valid defense, but I'm pretty sure it's a valid offense.


Also, I'll respond to your shredz" later. Thnks for spoilering it, by the way.

[Metal Sonic]

Because of the alarmingly large number of people calling wgeurts town, I am aware of the small possibility that I am wrong on him being scum. However, notice that I have predicted a scenario if he was town in my previous posts -- we will not meet a good end.


Nevertheless, in lieu of the efforts to "shred" my case, no matter how successful, I think it indicates a bit of effort.

VOTE: seraphim

I'm surprised nobody is on this trash

[Metal Sonic]

If Eddie flips scum ICE is town.

Let me just take a moment to point out the really glaring scum motivation in the above quote.

[Metal Sonic]

I strongly disagree with the vengeful idea

[Metal Sonic]

Because whichever town that is getting lynched has a higher-than-average chance of being bad

Ergo they will have bad reads

Ergo there will be a town chainlynch

Ergo town will lose

So the vengeful idea I think is total shit. I am horrified how kagami thinks it's an "okay" idea

[Metal Sonic]

I will be glad if someone can point out what is fundamentally wrong with seraphim posts before I reveal the answer later in my daily wall

[Metal Sonic]

There are other little things too. I don't believe town greyICE would ever utter "scum caught for the wrong reasons." He's just too smart to believe that.

Ooh, this is juicy.

That's one of my trademark phrases, Kagami. I use that all the time, because one of the best scum tells in the whole wide world is when someone starts bitching that you're wagoning them for the "wrong reasons". "Why me, fry me" is one of the strictest rules in Mafia, and the best. And anyone who says otherwise is a shitter or scum.

You were Silverwolf? I am starting to LOVE the people showing up to this party with chainsaws.

You're serious? This makes me sad.

Well then, pay attention and you will learn something. I'll start GreyICE's school of how to fucking play mafia, except mine won't be nice and gentle like ABR's.

One of the cardinal rules of mafia is the cardinal rules of any situation where you have a guilty party. Barring utter psychopaths, guilty people know they are "supposed" to get caught. And there's very little way scum can honestly defend themselves from charges of being scum. Of course they were acting scummy, they were scum.When they start grabbing someone else and yelling "well this person was doing it too!" or "you should be going after them if you think that, not me!",

especially when they couple that with "And X wasn't really scummy at all"

then you can very safely hang them.

If you think this is wrong, you haven't been paying attention.

This theory is true.

Contextualize this in response to Sotty's behavior please.

I am fine with voting Sotty but I just want you to put in some good work.

[Metal Sonic]

You seem to be selling a binary of Sotty town - hoopla scum. Why?

[Metal Sonic]

I asked why.

[Metal Sonic]

I don't think you understand the implications here.

[Metal Sonic]

Sonic's post of the day 3

following on from the previous post: if abr or greyice are scum, they can create enough noise and use the scum voting bloc to win the game -- to the point, where i'm effectively willing to gamble on their alignment being town and hope we can channel our energy together as a unit.

If they are that effective as scum, tell me Hoopla, how probable do you think it is that they put in some scum tokens for this game?

Oh god don't TELL them optimal play.

you're underestimating the collective knowledge of the scumteam. four people in this team and then a crew of teammates with eyes on the game. scum already know how to play optimally.

Correct. Every player's power level in Team Mafia can be scaled up to a maximum of a factor of 4, because 4 teammates. In essence, 16 scum vs 32 town. Assume optimal play from... teams with optimal players.

Let's focus on TODAY. We're not going to try and plan for something like this when there's plenty of time to discuss everything. Even then, there's no way in hell I'd follow along with this plan. No chance in hell.

Word it up. Hoopla's vengeful plan is absolutely fucking stupid, as I have already expressed earlier. Let me repeat why:

In mafia, there are 2 basic skills of a town member. 1. The skill to look town. 2. The skill to hunt scum accurately. A good player will have both of these skills. A "village idiot", probably only has skill 2. An "obvtown" player, probably only has skill 1. And a plain idiot will suck at both of these.

Let us make the simplistic black-and-white logic that any player here is either a good player or an idiot. Of course, mafia is grey, but just for ease of discussion.

Only "idiots" will get lynched, because they fail to look town. These players who have been lynched have a higher-than-average chance of having terrible reads. If we are going to play the game based solely on these players' words... we will not have a good end.

in essence: Players who get lynched suck. Players who suck, their reads probably also suck. Hoopla is suggesting that we suck these players. No thanks.

Hypothetical scenario, hypothetical bad scenario.

I'm not entertaining any lynch set up, plan, or letting any mislynchee dictate to me who to vote. Hoopla can advise whatever she wants when I'm not there, but this is my game. Did you know that this setup was my first choice pick? There's no outguessing the mod, setup speculation, NK WIFOM. This is pure scumhunting, an area where I have the upper hand. I can't be killed or silenced. The scum aren't even coming after me yet, they will essentially town confirm me before long. Then their hope will be to endgame me. That's marvellous. The chances of that happening are low like the Canadian Dollar. Welcome to Albert B. Rampage's class in Scumhunting, you will find your syllabus on the left hand side of your desk. Sharpen your pencils, class.

And I'll be the guest speaker. Welcome to class, Sir Rampage, it's a pleasure to work with you.

This is your warning bell, townies.

And this is your lack of vote.

Frankly, it's jaw-dropping how little the number of votes on Seraphim are, and it has been more than 12 hours.

Good. I want more people on the Eddie train. Seven of them would be very, very nice.

I explain my exact reasoning, and you accuse me of "salesmanship" without responding to a single fucking thing I'm saying?

Burn.

I, however, do not. Eddie is one of my stronger town-reads at the moment, alongside yourself, and I find that it would turn out better if we could all agree on a Seraphim, Sotty, or wgeurts lynch. Hoopla is also a suspicious character.

Yo Nacho get back and help us lynch scumfuck McGee please

Yo Nacho get back and help us lynch scumfuck McGee please

Someone string this up

If Eddie flips scum ICE is town.

No guesses? Okay, I'll reveal the answer.

HELLO EVERYBODY. DO YOU SEE WHAT THIS SCUMBAG DID.

"If Eddie is scum, Ice is town"

= "If Eddie is town, Ice is scum"

-------------------------------------------> If both are town, what happens? Let me tell you what happens. 6:4. Doomsday.

But nope, wgeurts didn't say that verbatim. He'll probably say that I'm lying again. Don't worry wgeurts, I'll slap your shredder in my next post. I can deal with people like you.

Pedantic bastard.

Class, please take your seats, it's time to begin. Please turn your books to Chapter I.

That made me chuckle this morning by the way. I enjoy class.

Sorry for being contrary guys!

Apology accepted!

Seraphim is a great vote.

But I'd appreciate it if you could actually buy my products instead of saying "It's great" then sidling away!

I'm fine with Seraphim votes, those are awesome.

Same to you, valued customer!

My team currently thinks that MS, G Ice, and zzzx are all town. I'm not completely sold, but I tend to agree.

Who exactly aren't you sold on?

But gun to my head, and I have to be deadly accurate here, I'm pointing my fingers at Hoopla, sotty and wgeurts.

I think this is a good list. Throw in a Seraphim.

I'm perfectly fine with a Wgeurts, Seraphim, or Hoopla vote in part with my current vote on GreyIce. Those are my big 4 right now.

Swap GreyIce with Sotty and we can all reach a happy decision!

Part of me wants to class Metal as town. He's earnest, his tone feels great.

Thanks,

I still don't really know why he is voting me, his points were kinda shitty

But I'd like to think that I am pretty crystal clear about my voting rationales for this game.

Currently, I'm having wgeurts and Sotty as scumreads. At the moment, I feel that my vote on Sotty would be helpful to the efforts of GreyICE, and will assist him in his scumhunting endeavor.

<longpost>

So, a thousand or so words in and I haven't actually seen decent analysis or scumhunting from your slot. Okay, I have no idea how Sotty plays. I have never played with her before, no meta, and I have never heard of this player until I have joined this game.

But. A lack of scumhunting. Not trying to find out players' alignments. That's something to look out for, eh?

What, nobody answered my Seraphim question either?

My attempts at having an interactive class just ain't very successful eh? Every time I ask a question, nobody answers

I feel much more confident about

MS-town

though.

Why?

His posting isn't just bullshit.

I can see shit actually happening in his posts, thought-processes, etc.

The wagon on me is bullshit

Seraphim (2) - Metal Sonic, Sotty7

Let me explain this in words, briefly. Seraphim calls me strong town, because I ain't bullshit. Seraphim calls the (2-man) wagon on him bullshit. I am the only major one on the (2 man) wagon.

Someone is taking a whole lot of heat from just a 2 man wagon. Don't need to get so snappy, that's less than half needed for a lynch!

Also if any of the fucks on my wagon want to come and actually engage me and talk with me and point out some reasons why I'm scum, I would be so down.

The "fuck" that you just labelled as "town" whose "posting isn't just bullshit" would like to have a word with you.

Your wagon was inspired because you had only previously made a grand total of 3 shit posts:

Spoiler: These posts are shit

I'm here.

Vote: Metal Sonic

If I can make this happen, it will save me me so many headaches.

I will post more substantially tomorrow with some questions and substance but I thought I'd post some reads copy-pasted from my notes:

TOWN
ZZZX (obv)
Empire (or Zor, now?)
ABR (obv)
wgeurts (ABR interaction looks good)

NEUTRAL
Nacho (town/null reading here)
Metal Sonic (still gives me a headache)
GreyICE
sotty (I need to sit on this thing with GreyICE)
Hoopla (hasn't posted)

SCUM
Eddie (don't like posting)
SilverWolf (agree w/ ABR)

Unvote
Vote: SilverWolf

Unvote
Vote: Kagami

My vote should be here, it didn't registered for whatever reason.

Your first post is obviously shit, because it is a check-in and an RVS vote. But that's okay.

Your second post was a bit less shit, because you provided your reads, so that we can see where you stand on the players in the game. Unfortunately, it is still shit, because firstly, there was no trajectory on any of your reads, which means that it came out of nowhere. Secondly, there is a lack of accountability, as there was no previous indication on how you were arriving at your reads, we are unable to see your thought processes behind the reads. Thirdly, it is shit, because your reasoning is scarce, less than 9 words for each read, we are unable to gain any new insights from your post. Finally, it is shit, because anybody could come up with that readslist by making a "Town", "Null", and "Scum" section, and randomly fill in the appropriate categories with the names in the playerlist -- it is falsifiable.

Your third post is also obviously shit, because it was just to fix a mod error in your voting.

In short, all of your posts were shit before #348. Shit + Shit + Shit = 3 times the shit.

And you wonder why there is a wagon on you. I'm disappointed that there are ONLY STILL two people.

Because sotty is going to flip town,

The use of "is going to" suggests high certainty or a high modality. This indicates that Kagami is extremely confident that sotty will flip town. Unfortunately for us, we cannot see her reasoning for such confidence.

This is her grand total of 2 posts that had any mention of sotty -- none of them implied Sotty was town, much less her reasoning.

Spoiler: Why is sotty town?

Hoopla was blatantly aware that the best town strategy was to form a block because otherwise it would be nearly impossible to get solid scum lynches.

That was her analysis, and she started out playing it as town.

If you think sotty is scum, hoopla is town at 114.

I'm ok with a sotty lynch if we do the vengeful thing starting with day 1.

Immediately Seraphim follows with:

Why do you think sotty will flip town?

Finally a post that is not shit.

In large part because greyICE wants to lynch him.

Why do you think he's scum, and why do you think grey is town?

And then Kagami posts a shit post.

I mean, it's a shit response to a shit playerslot, so that's actually okay.

But what the heck, is this reasoning for Sotty town? "In large part because greyICE wants to lynch him."

What, did you think that GreyICE is a shit player or something? Not going to call out any names here, but seriously?

I read that, serephim. It's not compelling. I agree that sotty's play isn't amazing, but I've seen far worse from town being tunneled into the ground.

GI's posting is bizarrely inconsistent, which is ironic given he says the same of sotty. The best point he makes is the token thing.

He complains that sotty is willing to town block with players who haven't even posted against, pointing to a list that is probably just people sotty likes/has played with before. Later hoopla shows up later saying she'll sheep GI and ABR and just gamble that they're town. Hoopla gets a solid town for that because hoopla understands the need to town-block.

He should have had hoopla as town at 114, given his suspicion of sotty. Instead, there are sprinkles of "hoopla might be scum" in the token conversation and hoopla's opening is "deliberately uninteresting." He decides hoopla is town at 272 for whatever reason. I asked him about it, and apparently GI doesn't do pre-flip associations. Meanwhile, Eddie is revving a chainsaw in 258.

sotty is apparently pathetic and the worst liar ever. And is a legendary scum player in the next post.

There are other little things too. I don't believe town greyICE would ever utter "scum caught for the wrong reasons." He's just too smart to believe that. 277 is another ridiculous thing I don't think town-GI would say. "One of my townreads is scum" reads as "I'll have to 180 on one of my townreads once my scumreads are all dead."

And yes, a lot of this oddly revolves around a greyice-hoopla interaction. I think they're scum together. The early hoopla-scum sprinkles might indicate town-hoopla, but it looks like it was just distancing that grey decided not to bother with since he inexplicably has a townread from everyone.

So on to that townread. Why is greyICE town, seraphim?

Okay, so this is a good post. There is analysis, reasoning, and an attempt to determine GreyICE's alignment, which is fine.

What is not fine is that Kagami has not explained how Sotty is town. When someone asks "Who stole the cookie from the cookie jar?", it is not appropriate to answer "John did not steal the cookie from the cookie jar".

Similarly, it is not valid to provide a "GreyICE-scum" case in response to the question of "Why is Sotty town?".

I'm just not sold that sotty is scum anymore and I don't think she's a good lynch today.

Don't do this. You are in a world of trouble if you deviate from Sotty now.

There are other little things too. I don't believe town greyICE would ever utter "scum caught for the wrong reasons." He's just too smart to believe that.

Ooh, this is juicy.

That's one of my trademark phrases, Kagami. I use that all the time, because one of the best scum tells in the whole wide world is when someone starts bitching that you're wagoning them for the "wrong reasons". "Why me, fry me" is one of the strictest rules in Mafia, and the best. And anyone who says otherwise is a shitter or scum.

You were Silverwolf? I am starting to LOVE the people showing up to this party with chainsaws.

You're serious? This makes me sad.

Well then, pay attention and you will learn something. I'll start GreyICE's school of how to fucking play mafia, except mine won't be nice and gentle like ABR's.

One of the cardinal rules of mafia is the cardinal rules of any situation where you have a guilty party. Barring utter psychopaths, guilty people know they are "supposed" to get caught. And there's very little way scum can honestly defend themselves from charges of being scum. Of course they were acting scummy, they were scum.When they start grabbing someone else and yelling "well this person was doing it too!" or "you should be going after them if you think that, not me!",

especially when they couple that with "And X wasn't really scummy at all"

then you can very safely hang them.

If you think this is wrong, you haven't been paying attention.

Once again, I repeat. This is perfectly valid and sound mafia theory. I agree with it myself.

What GreyICE lacks is showing how this argument links back to the point of Sotty being scum. Currently, GreyICE's argument is lacking examples and evidence to show that Sotty is guilty of performing this action. In order for him to make a coherent argument, it must be supported with evidence from Sotty's ISO.

So, GreyICE needs to work on drawing the link before we can lynch Sotty.

Seraphim. My friend. I'm going to give you one chance to realize how major your mistake was just now so you can correct it. I just showed you how scummy you look if Sotty flips scum. Even if she doesn't, your behavior in the last two hours are more contrived than the last season of How I met your Mother. I

will

lynch you later for this, you realize that, surely? You understand how this makes you look and how I will make sure that you flip because of this mistake, right?

Your next post is a vote for Sotty or I guarantee you I will see you to the ground,

personally

.

I like this.

I like Albert B. Rampage.

Spoiler: Mafia 101

My scumhunting lessons may be more gentle than yours, but when I say something, I mean it. That's the fundamental difference between us. Look at you.

I think GreyICE is really stretching my scum game and is choosing to ignore my actual preferences to make his vote fit.

I apologize that I caught you for the wrong reasons. It was quite terrible of me. In my defense, you hadn't posted yet. Since you started posting, you've given me so many better reasons for voting you.

You're totally fucking scum. You seriously want me to vote Hoopla rather than you over a reason you think is "bullshit"? You talk about remembering me not "going after the weaker of the two options" and the only game we played together was that hideous abortion where me and Reck ended up yelling at each other for most of day 1 and then the site crashed?

Sotty, you lying sack of scum, you are PATHETIC at this.

My opening vote was to get a read on you. And it fucking worked. You came in here and you launched this pathetic whine where you claimed my vote was illegitimate and tried to get me to lynch Hoopla.

A hundred posts later? Same fucking tune. Same. Fucking. Tune.

Why? You're not trying to sense my alignment. You're looking for weakness. I? I was trying to sense your alignment. And now I know. Now I know every. Little. Detail.

You are scum, and you will be lynched today. This is the end of the line, Sotty, the death tunnel, the white void. Fucking prepare yourself, because if you think MGS was me getting you killed, you ain't seen NOTHING yet.

These quotes right here? Showboating. For the audience. Big man, big threatening words. Nothing to back it up. As soon as a little risk comes your way, hesitation, confusion, "I will sheep you anywhere else ABR, don't make the baddies vote me if I'm wrong about my case ABR".

Man the fuck up.

Word it up.

ZZZX, Metal Sonic, and Zar/Empire are all town, we're 100% there, right?

Yes. Add ABR.

MS, ZZZX, Zar, chat with your teams. I want you on board here. MS, I know you are, ZZZX same, Zar, just chat with Regfan. He's the best fucking player on this site, bar none.

Already am.

Although I might be ignorant and know not who Zar and Regfan are, I probably should ask my teammates about that.

I think that's correct, yes, but if that's really what you're getting out my posts, then you're missing something pretty fundamental.

And I feel unsatisfied about Kagami's answer.

Let me explain why.

Throughout the game, Kagami has been strongly encouraging that 1. Sotty is town, 2. GreyICE is scum, 3. Kagami wants to lynch Sotty in order to lynch GreyICE.

All this is predicated on a "vengeful" paradigm, which I have already expressed my strong disagreement with. It would come as a surprise that this "vengeful" idea originated from Hoopla, apparently Kagami's scumread. One would expect to be more suspicious of an idea put forth by a "scumread", because of the inherent scum motivations behind their every post. Kagami's eagerness to proceed with Hoopla's plan while simultaneously calling her scum suggests recklessness or a lack of conviction in her Hoopla scumread.

Furthermore, Kagami is supporting a binaristic view of Sotty-Hoopla. I can understand if she has this view on GreyICE-Sotty, since one read is based on the other. However, it comes as a logic jump when multiple inductions are applied:
1. Sotty is town because GreyICE is scum.
2. Hoopla is buddies with GreyICE.
3. Hoopla is scum.
4. Hoopla and Sotty are mutually exclusive.

That is a total of 4 logic jump assumptions, and none of them have been justified clearly by Kagami, in my opinion. For example, why can't Hoopla and Sotty both be town, and are being played by GreyICE? Why can't Sotty and Hoopla both be scum, and are playing GreyICE? Why can't all 3 be town, and we would have lost the game if we actually followed through with the lynch of these 3 players?

There have been no clear reasons provided by Kagami to justify the Hoopla-Sotty binary, without making excessive assumptions or logic gaps.

So, I will ask again.

Why do you have a binary of Sotty-town/Hoopla-scum? Please explain your logic clearly.


_______

I am up to date.

Due to time constraints, I will respond to wgeurts "shreddies" package later.

Perhaps, wgeurts will use his catchphrase again:

Spoiler: The only argument he makes

[Metal Sonic]

But nope, wgeurts didn't say that verbatim. He'll probably say that I'm lying again.

Damn, I was wrong. He said I was "misrep".

sonic only hears wgeurts 3 pieces of vocabulary:

1. "Misrep"
2. "You're lying!"
3. "False!"

(If you don't believe me, check out his posts. you will be shocked.)


p-edit: Yes, I'm lying:

Don't worry wgeurts, I'll slap your shredder in my next post.

See this? This is a lie. I didn't slap your shredder in my next post. whoops

dedicated it specially to slap your most recent responses

[Metal Sonic]

you know what is my biggest lie of all, wgeurts?



my statement that I would respond to your shreddies "case"





i am purposely antagonizing you now.

^this is not a lie

[Metal Sonic]

hey dude.

there is a guy in your team called ESPEONAGE.


I want HIM. to talk to ME. i dont want YOU. to talk to ME.

i am not lying

[Metal Sonic]

Because lying is funny.


Tell Espeonage to read me in this game and say his thoughts and post them here.

[Metal Sonic]

I mean relay his thoughts to you and post them here


Get espeonage to read your shreddies case too and relay what he thinks over here.

Get espeonage to read this game and post his top 3 scumreads and reasons over here too.

[Metal Sonic]

Let me ask again: why am I a good vote beyond being at the receiving end of ABR's displeasure because I dared (I DARED GOD FORBID) to defy him?

I literally just explained why your posts are shit not too long ago.

The reason there is a wagon on you is precisely because your posts are 'shit'

The above post, unsurprisingly, is also 'shit'.

[Metal Sonic]

Why the fuck are people voting Kagami?? Are you srs right now?!?!

It's just Zzzx, and uh, wgeurts, apparently. Lol.

[Metal Sonic]

I've never played with nacho I believe.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

get espeonage in here ASAP

[Metal Sonic]

I did read your post, where you told me that my first three posts were shit. One of those was, under your own admittance, an RVS post. And I would admit the other two posts are shit too. I was busy but I wanted to post some stuff, so I posted my unfiltered notes. Then I started playing and your "post" barely reacts to my radical shift in activity besides saying that one of my posts is in fact good.

You can go fuck yourself too. This whole wagon can go fuck itself.

Well, stop fucking shitposting then. Right now your posts appear to be worse than wgeurts', and believe me when I have a terrible impression of him already.

[Metal Sonic]

Can you please post more?

With lots of love,
Sonic

[Metal Sonic]

I want your thoughts on the following players:

Seraphim
GreyICE
Albert B. rampage
Any updates on your wgeurts read?


If members on your team (including ffery) could chip in that'll be great!

[Metal Sonic]

Additionally, I also want your thoughts on Hoopla!

[Metal Sonic]

Did you just say that seraphim is town?

Why?

[Metal Sonic]

Why do you think that he is town?

[Metal Sonic]

Yes I want to lynch Hoopla. aaaaaaaand?

Aaaaand this will be the legacy you leave on the game:

1 man power wagon

Hoopla (1) - Seraphim

[Metal Sonic]

Sonic's post of the day 4

MS: I'll be the first to admit that my entry posts were shit.

Of course you're the first to admit that your entry posts were shit. Apparently, you're the only person that is able, by definition, to "admit" that your entry posts were shit. Unfortunately, I called out your posts were shit first, so you probably aren't the first in that regard.

The reads list was honest and straight from my notes I'm keeping on the game and since reads lists are considerably more useful in this game b/c no NK WIFOM I decided it would be useful for people to see where I stood.

Well, why don't you post all of your notes too, instead of the "demo version" of reads? Demo versions are usually shit. You know that. We all know that. What, must we pay you to get the "full version" or something?

wgeurts and MS: I want you both to clearly and concisely try to explain to me why the other person is scum. I want to mediate and stop you guys from fighting because I'm 90% convinced you're both town and this fight is stupid.

If this fight was stupid, then A.B.R and GreyICE wouldn't be agreeing with me.

Anyway, point form for those of you lazies:

1. Shallow scumhunting. wgeurts makes weak attempts to scumhunt that are easily manufacturable by scum.
2. Actions contradict his words. wgeurts asserts certain points but his behavior, tone, and vote do not reflect it.

NEW 3: Antitown biased tunnelling: By tunnelling and only focussing on the towniest player in the game, allows him to avoid scumhunting other players. Whenever questioned about other players in the game, he will redirect the subject onto myself in order to reduce the amount of meaningful, relevant content that he has to say. Knowing that I will never be in danger of a lynch, his push can go on infinitely and while not needing to contribute relevant points or scumhunt during this period.

NEW 4: Lack of logical rebuttals: His defenses against me consist of only 3 catchphrases "You're Lying", "You're Misrepping", and "That's False". wgeurts is unable to counter my arguments in a convincing manner, and thus has to resort to desperate tactics in order to keep fighting. Unfortunately for him, not many are buying it.

Metal do you believe in fking GIF?

Maybe yes, maybe no. I want GIF to explain his read clearly, because he could be wrong on his read, especially when he isn't invested in the game as a main player. I also want to establish GIF's meta knowledge of wgeurts and how many scumgames and towngames he has seen.

Metal. Will you trust me this once and follow me??

Yeah, except you changed your vote like 10 posts later. That means you don't even trust yourself.

Also wgeurts. Are you going to do what i told you and move ur vote and ignore metal?

Because you are not following up.

Be playing pro-town and just freaking do it already

Even ZZZX caught it already. wgeurt's reluctance to move out of his vote park until much pressure indicates: How much he loves his vote park.

2. Actions contradict his words. wgeurts asserts certain points but his behavior, tone, and vote do not reflect it.

I think that the evidence is clear.

False equivalence, ABR.
It is precisely the noise/content to ratio on Hoopla that makes her scummy. The fact that she has posted less content than sotty over twice as many posts is a significant factor towards her being scum.
Also, sotty has (until recently) been at the receiving end of GreyICE's wrath and has not been given a chance to do anything besides react.
Plus, you are now on a wagon with the same person you've been wagoning so heavily. Does that not give you pause?
This post used to be a lot more venomous but I've told recently that antagonizing my townreads is a bad idea so...

So, GreyICE, why the vote?

This post is interesting.

@Sotty

, this is a case against Hoopla, a poor one, but a case is a case. Do you want to respond to this?

_____


The amount of posting today has been pretty low. I've responded live to most of the latest posts today, so those have been covered.

This post has been a short one.

[Metal Sonic]

10 posts later

*33 posts later. Whoops, maybe wgeurts will cry that I'm 'lying' again.

[Metal Sonic]

It is possible. Look at who I am voting.

Am I focusing only on you? You seem to be implying it.

[Metal Sonic]

No, you just keep repeating yourself like a broken record on me

That is a misrep. I am not repeating myself like a broken record, because I have been making cases on other people as well. I am currently voting Seraphim. So you are lying about me not focusing on others.

[Metal Sonic]

But okay fine I'll stop.

Go enjoy your VLA

I want espeonage to closely watch the game while you're away and you are going to post everything he says when you get back. Clear?

[Metal Sonic]

The vigging plan is immensely pro-town. If we have two town lynches in a row, it means we can't block effectively enough to get a scum lynch. At that point literal random chance is better than what the town can do. And airing it on day 1 is immensely pro-town. Trying it on day 3/4 when the scum can effectively choose whether to "agree" or "disagree" based on selection is awful. If someone says "great plan!" on day 1 and then on day 3 is like "How awful I'd never do that" then at least we'd have a shot.

That's strong, town analysis.

No. That's not strong, town analysis in the slightest. That is just pure setup spec and/or setup strategy taken directly from the book of "Optimal Town Play in a Nightless". It's just telling us how to play the game as town. It's just being like an IC in Rome with general information. Unfortunately, roles are randomized.

So, it is not "strong, town analysis". It is "useful general information". That is different, because this information is effectively null. Your attempt to paint it biasedly as a pro-town action is reproachable.

Furthermore, I may or may not have already pointed out that Hoopla's ISO is devoid of relevant content. There is no analysis related to the game, no scumhunting, nothing. Arguably, all her posts have been filler on "How to play a Nightless as town". We don't need an encyclopedia, we need a town member that is able to scumhunt. Currently, Hoopla is not displaying any of these desired traits.

Because it's town analysis. Shit you could do before you even got your role PM.

You have already highlighted this yourself. It is 'analysis' that 'you could do before you even got your role PM'. You have just admitted that Hoopla's posts could be done before she even got her role PM. Also known as a null action. So, how is it remotely possible that it is

"town" analysis

?

This, dear class, is a textbook example of a self-contradiction. Distressingly, there are possible scum motivations for such a contradiction, which is regretful to hear from GreyICE.

The vigging plan is immensely pro-town.

I haven't even gotten to the point where have repeated 3 times that I strongly disagree with this "vengeful plan". That, could just be my opinion. But my above two points against GreyICE should be precise.

Don't consider that spot one of my town reads. Still like my current vote, mind you.

Fortunately, this is a fair conclusion. However, this ostensibly means that the points against you, by ABR, and even Kagami and Sotty, regarding the inexplicable Hoopla townread, holds true.

[Metal Sonic]

Not yet... events have unfolded recently which require a specialized force and urgent attention.

For example, Prior to this:

Time's up, guys. I stepped back to let the game breathe without me and nothing happened. Hoopla never posted, Sotty didn't contribute, wgeurts and ZZZX V/LA, Zar not caught up. Absolutely nothing.

Let's get this underway and end this day.

Vote: Sotty

The Sotty wagon was.... suddenly gone?

Votecount 1.7

Seraphim (4) - Metal Sonic, Sotty7, Albert B. Rampage, GreyICE
Kagami (3) - wgeurts, ZZZX, Nachomamma8
GreyICE (2) - EddieFenix, Kagami
EddieFenix (1) - Hoopla
Hoopla (1) - Seraphim

Not Voting (1) - Zar

wgeurts is V/LA until 4/7.

Deadline is 4/9 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-09 18:00:00).

We gotta figure this out before we close the case. The situation isn't clear by a long shot.

[Metal Sonic]

There are a couple of other inconsistencies in the game that will cause you distress when I point them out.

1. GreyICE was hard championing the Sotty wagon earlier today. Now, he has taken a back seat, and you have taken lead on this front, effectively pushing it for him.

2.

Seraphim (4) - Metal Sonic, Sotty7, Albert B. Rampage, GreyICE

Not only is the Sotty wagon gone, GreyICE was swift to sheep you (and me) on the Seraphim wagon, abandoning his bloodlust for Sotty. With this naked vote:

Vote: Seraphim

3.

G Ice, actually, I'd like you to tell me why Hoopla isn't a great lynch right now. It seems to me that she is.

He never actually responded to this. However, many of his posts prior to your call-out on #336 were lauds and praises for Hoopla's "town" analysis.

4.

My town read on GreyICE was gut and the fact that it looked like he was scumhunting which can be very hard to fake. But that cognitive dissonance between calling sotty's scumgame legendary and then calling her a pathetic lying sack of shit later...hmmm...that was not something I saw initially so I'm glad you pointed it out. Especially since what you call his best point has been what I see to be the weakest part of his play, namely his entire push on the token thing. I think the tokens are tenuous at best, incredibly misleading at worst. Also, consulting with my team, they are a lot more unsettled with GreyICE than I am, so I guess I should look more into that seeing as your case is fairly convincing.

Unvote

This guy.

5. Nacho is unusually lurky in here!



We have reached the first chapter of a detective novel, ABR. Holmes and Watson have to figure this crime out, and the plot is looking to be more complex that I have anticipated earlier.

[Metal Sonic]

He never actually responded to this.

Well, actually he JUST responded to it. And I accidentally shot it down. Whoops.

[Metal Sonic]

c:

[Metal Sonic]

Yo metal sonic, you're town and all, but try reading 100% of my posts before responding. It stops posts like the above.

Already did, and that's my interpretation. You are welcome to argue in a civilized manner if there are any uncorrected mistakes.

[Metal Sonic]

I responded to the entire post.

[Metal Sonic]

Who's replacing out. Sotty is town and apart of our ideal town block (MS, Kagami, ZZZX, Zar, and Myself).

Where do you stand on ABR?

[Metal Sonic]

To make things clear,

You're reading Sotty as town but less town than the aforementioned "ideal town block" candidates?

[Metal Sonic]

^the above post is inflammatory

[Metal Sonic]

I was about to slam your point of "fuckwit teammates" so deep into the ground where it would never see light again,

Then I saw that only Bulbazak was the only teammate that was not bad

So actually surprisingly it was remotely true.

[Metal Sonic]

I was about to slam your point of "fuckwit teammates" so deep into the ground where it would never see light again,

Then I saw that only Bulbazak was the only teammate that was not bad

So actually surprisingly it was remotely true.

Yeah, MS, read this. Where did Eddie interact with Silverwolf/Kagami sllot enough to conclude that the slot

should be part of the townblock?

Can you locate where that brilliant read came from?

He expressed a mention of a Kagami townread in his ISO, though it wasn't accompanied with a reason. Let's wait for his rebuttal.


Meanwhile! Hoopla expects us to give her a free pass! Lol!

[Metal Sonic]

I'd rather have hoopla.

I had a strong town read on Eddie early game but GreyICE's argument is very compelling

[Metal Sonic]

Why is seraphim not on your death list?

[Metal Sonic]

Solid.

VOTE: sotty

[Metal Sonic]

Things to do:

Wait for Eddie's rebuttal to GreyICE

Wait for Hoopla to produce good stuff

I'm not waiting that long. She literally wants us to wait 2 more days without any guarantee. Scum lurking

Wait for Sotty to flail

Observe interactions.

I am going to state that I would prefer Hoopla or Seraphim dead today rather than Sotty.

[Metal Sonic]

There are other little things too. I don't believe town greyICE would ever utter "scum caught for the wrong reasons." He's just too smart to believe that.

Ooh, this is juicy.

That's one of my trademark phrases, Kagami. I use that all the time, because one of the best scum tells in the whole wide world is when someone starts bitching that you're wagoning them for the "wrong reasons". "Why me, fry me" is one of the strictest rules in Mafia, and the best. And anyone who says otherwise is a shitter or scum.

You were Silverwolf? I am starting to LOVE the people showing up to this party with chainsaws.

You're serious? This makes me sad.

Well then, pay attention and you will learn something. I'll start GreyICE's school of how to fucking play mafia, except mine won't be nice and gentle like ABR's.

One of the cardinal rules of mafia is the cardinal rules of any situation where you have a guilty party. Barring utter psychopaths, guilty people know they are "supposed" to get caught. And there's very little way scum can honestly defend themselves from charges of being scum. Of course they were acting scummy, they were scum.When they start grabbing someone else and yelling "well this person was doing it too!" or "you should be going after them if you think that, not me!",

especially when they couple that with "And X wasn't really scummy at all"

then you can very safely hang them.

If you think this is wrong, you haven't been paying attention.

This theory is true.

Contextualize this in response to Sotty's behavior please.

I am fine with voting Sotty but I just want you to put in some good work.

Re-posting because GreyICE has yet to deliver.

[Metal Sonic]

There's gold.

At least I have content for my daily post tonight. I was worried that it would be more barren than the previous one.

[Metal Sonic]

Define gold, MS?

It's a reference :p

- Ferdinand, Duchess of Malfi

[Metal Sonic]

Sonic's post of the day 5

Hello everyone. Today's edition will focus on #601, #602, and #605. I have already addressed most, if not all other previous concerns in my live posting.

Firstly,

headlines

Considering that one can take your early game like....

Spoiler:

Wow, I had forgotten that tiger eaten abortion of a game.

Why do I think you would spend tokens on your scum play? It's literally legendary. Believe it or not, I don't think that the tokens were spent "counterintuitively" very often. You'd hardly be the first returning player to take scum (mith himself did it in the first one).

Why you? I wanted to see how you'd respond. Hoopla just complains that everyone always finds her scummy, she'll pop up with some theory blather in a few days. I was hoping you'd be more interesting. And you were.

... No more tokens. Also enough theories

You claimed to be voting me because I was likely to use tokens to make myself scum. That is untrue, it is pretty well known I favor town if any tokens were to be spent on me it would be in that direction as Nacho hinted at. Not only that but you said that Hoopla was more likely to push a token scum draw than myself yet your vote is on me. Why me over her? You're going after the weaker of the two options you listed for yourself and that's not the GreyICE I remember at all.

You remember me? Interesting. What game was that, to give you such a strong impression?

As for recent play experience, I'll save your team the digging - I've been semi-retired for ages. I think the last game I played with Hoopla was like a year ago. My work schedule, moving, and a whole lot of shit has fucked my ability to commit to mafia.

Okey stop pure token talk. This is a common talking-about-mechanics and ignoring game kind of thing.

Interesting.

Why would you say "tokens" is bullshit? They give you an enormous ability to influence your role PM. The idea that we should simply ignore this seems ludicrous.

But even more than that, you've won today's lottery!

Because "tokens" is bullshit and voting me over Hoopla in that respect is even worse.

So my reason is shitty, but even if it wasn't, I should have voted Hoopla rather than you based on it?

Congratulations! You win a noose!

Sorry I'm lynching you for the wrong reasons, scumbag.

To be honest I never got your post. I think my vote is in the right place. you are scum reading him so hard right now because he MIGHT have put tokens as scum? this is not how this works...

None. We're actually all flying solo at the moment. Our QT is 3 pages long, and two of them are chatting with Zoraster.

No content yet.

Your "townhunting" theory and townblock are so incredibly bad that one cannot believe you came up with them unbiased.

Nightless games inevitably snowball. See Camden, or my setup I designed with Hito. At the moment we have 4 mislynches to town loss, but after a single scum lynch we get a spare mislynch. 5 mislynches is nice. Two scum die, and we get 6. That's really nice. 3, and we get 7 fucking mislynches, and if we manage that we should all quit the site.

So the scum are going to be looking to vote as a block. I smell protectionist scum who wish to work together.

Well you just said my whole theory was baised or something and its bad? I dont actually get it. This is a nightless game. scum needs 5 mislynches in a row to win. if you lynch a scum then u even add one more mislynch. typically if u have a town block of 3 and lynching 1-2 scum (considering ur town block was accurate) you just PoE your way to win). even if you have at least 1 town read that is one less scum target. if someone was clearly town he cant die without scum going there and making thier hands dirty. town blocs basically secures the town player's places where they belong.

Am I wrong?

I'm annoyed that I only have two townreads so far on page 5 (ZZZX and ABR) and it somehow feels like not much is going down. I wonder if this is the result of rust or the fact that half this thread is two guys or my general antsiness. Or a combination of all three.

(Bigger post coming up next after I finish rereading and thinking.)

We are missing EddieFenix, Hoopla, Sotty7, and Seraphim's post was such a non-entry that it actually might have removed information from the thread. He's my vote for coasting scum by the by.

But two of those were names I twigged as likely to token scum, alongside you and Nacho. Especially Hoopla, as tokening scum in this setup fits her profile.

well i will call this mini info post #1. but infact its all theory talk. also... where is the vote in this one?

Your ISO is a wasteland

A vast tract of sand and sun, devoid of life

Quantity<Quality, ABR has said more than you have.

Post4: No he... didnt. a single scum read doesnt help much in this kind of games frankly. he did do good stuff but nothing "amazing" yet.

You have 32 fucking posts for that

Stop spamming

Post3: Well technically "just that" included a third of the game. which is a pretty damn high number for that number of posts. noonetheless lets move on.

Hmmm,

Nacho

, why did interject regarding Grey's vote on Sotty before she'd posted?

Like you. You're interesting. You think.

Get metal sonic is like 14. And excited. Please chill.

post2: hmm.. so i think this is a null/town read on empire? or was it nacho? also random comment on metal

vote : sotty7

Serious vote.

Post 1: okey

Le Early PbPA: Read from bot to top

tl;dr:

GreyIce:

-only kind of content posts are about tokens this token that.
-0 talk related to what happened in the thread. he just went in to say my spam is crap then never read the thread it seems
-has done a few scumtells.
-overall scummy

Not to mention you avoided even trying to point out ANY flaws in ZZZX's PbPA. Why not slam that as hard as you can?! Especially since it would BENEFIT you to slam that shit?!

This is one of the most insightful points I have seen in the game. Oh my. 10/10 agree.

It's an extremely excellent catch. Highly compelling point. Wow.

I overlooked this previously, and I suppose so did many people, but

everyone should read what's in this quote.

And since ZZZX can be considered to be one of the towniest members in the game, this gives credibility.

So, what's on the cover of today's weekend edition?

Highlight number 1: GreyICE may not be as town as we thought!

Highlight number 2: EddieFenix is town -- the Whys and the Hows?

Highlight number 3: Sotty and GreyICE, partners in crime?

So GreyICE's latest game-relevant posts have begun to tick more and more, and new discoveries by EddieFenix have convinced me that GreyICE is not eligible for a place in the town block.

Firstly, I think that EddieFenix already explained this point but let me restate this again.

I thought it was pretty clear. She herself summarized it in a single sentence:

Vote: GreyICE

Because "tokens" is bullshit and voting me over Hoopla in that respect is even worse.

Tokens are bullshit

and

it's not fair I voted her for tokens when I should be voting Hoopla.

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

Remember the initial theorem:

When they start grabbing someone else and yelling "well this person was doing it too!" or "you should be going after them if you think that, not me!", especially when they couple that with "And X wasn't really scummy at all" then you can very safely hang them.

The theorem means that a scum would likely

call out another player with the same behavior that they were accused of.

Let us take a closer look at the context:

Especially Hoopla, as tokening scum in this setup fits her profile.

Vote: GreyICE

Because "tokens" is bullshit and voting me over Hoopla in that respect is even worse.

So it appears that GreyICE's reasoning for his initial vote on Sotty was because "she was likely to token scum". However, by his own admission Hoopla was the most likely to token scum in this game. By this logic, GreyICE should have voted Hoopla over Sotty for the same reason. In essence, GreyICE was correct when he said this:

So my reason is shitty, but even if it wasn't, I should have voted Hoopla rather than you based on it?

Sotty didn't pull out Hoopla's name out of thin air. GreyICE literally mentioned in a previous post that Hoopla was the most likely to token scum.

Sotty was voting GreyICE because of a self contradiction, not as a scum reaction.

See the thing here, Sotty didn't deflect. Sotty didn't "[grab] someone else" when she was accused. Sotty was pointing out your

logic gap

in your reasoning behind a vote on her. Whether the tokens argument is "bullshit" or not is irrelevant;

your

argument was the one that was "bullshit".

I mean in no way does the statement "that's not the GreyICE I remember" make sense. It makes negative sense. I've had plenty of good games, and quite a few bad games, and I honestly don't know what that one was because of Tigers (site crash) but seriously where the hell did that statement come from.

Yeah, okay, thanks for the history.

Whether her statements make sense or not is irrelevant; what is the scum motivation? How does this relate to the golden rule of scumhunting that you have spelled out so finely earlier?


Well, so I was hoping for some good work, but I have been sorely disappointed.

___

In contrast, EddieFenix has posted the "right" answer in response to GreyICE's strike in #586. I would have expected EddieFenix to answer something along the lines of 'discussion with his team', because of contextual clues and evidence of this can be found in his ISO.

I had a strong town read on Eddie early game but GreyICE's argument is very compelling

I stand by my words here, if Eddie had replied "Whoops! I back down", or "GreyICE, you're right" or equivalent, I'd be glad to send him to the noose immediately. I chose to wait, because Eddie's response would be alignment-indicative. And his response was the town one.

(Because I can talk to my team in PRIVATE and discuss POSTS with them)

Is the "right" answer. Anything else would have been wrong and meant a swift death.

____

So I do not rule out the possibility of GreyICE and Sotty both being scum, with GreyICE bussing Sotty. Incidentally, Sotty's #605 just comes right in and drives the point home. Let's take a look at this

I'm starting to feel a little better about [GreyICE].

Hi I have moved on from GreyICE, you're welcome to join me.

GreyICE is a weird one for me. His attacks on me all game have been shitty but when he actually sits back and details things from a whole game preservative I can kinda understand where he is coming from.

What.
The.
Shit.



Here's how this is going down. First I'll dissect Sotty's post as per normal, then I'll write an argument for why Sotty-GreyICE interactions are dodgy as all hell and there is reason to believe a Sotty-GreyICE-Hoopla triangle scum siege.

Not only did Hoopla come off as pretty pro town

How are they pro town? Can you give examples?

once Hoopla started posting her ideas this fizzed for me.

How did it "fizz" for you? Can you describe your thought process?

Combine this with his actual reasoning for finding Hoopla suspicious (one of the only people to lay this out) I'm starting to feel a little better about him.

What 'actual reasoning' do you refer to? Did you mean the reason that "Hoopla" is more likely to token scum? In no manner did GreyICE ever suspect Hoopla save for #539 that only comes close if we stretch it. Did you see something that we all overlooked?

How is it compelling?
Why is Hoopla scum? You called Seraphim's case bad and then never expanded.
What's your current read on me?

All have been answered.

Alright your voting me, but why?

To see your reaction. To generate extra pressure on you. To remind you that you are always in danger of a lynch, even if there were no votes on you in the past vote count.

To appease ABR?

This question is only three words long, but it can be considered the most significant. Firstly, let's establish that I have a higher arbitrary "town level" than ABR. My name has already been nominated for townblocks by multiple distinct players, while I have to actually kindly request for ABR to be included in the townblocks themselves. It is unnecessary for me "to appease ABR".

Secondly, I like how Sotty ignores GreyICE's very obvious "appeasement" behavior. Did you actually think that I would miss that? Let us see examples:

Spoiler: A

ABR, the activity around this wagon is getting serious red flag territory. I don't like it. LLD thinks it's shit. Nacho's vote was fine for him to ride out the day or pull to explain it's "pressure". People are setting up day 1, not day 2.

Gimme something new. Literally pick a vote, I will sheep. Something is wrong here. I'm not saying lets not revisit it on a later day, but day 1 this is seriously off. Just please lets not do wgeurts, my team thinks he looks like he's legit trying to figure out the game, and I agree.

Spoiler: B

You unvoted Sotty so she could post more, even though you have a scum read on her, and decide to vote for Hoopla who posted even less content than Sotty.

Vote: Seraphim

Vote: Seraphim

Spoiler: C

Time's up, guys. I stepped back to let the game breathe without me and nothing happened. Hoopla never posted, Sotty didn't contribute, wgeurts and ZZZX V/LA, Zar not caught up. Absolutely nothing.

Let's get this underway and end this day.

Vote: Sotty

Vote:Sotty

Literally none of the resistance to this wagon comes from town reads.

Although Seraphim was still a good vote.

Did you get sloppier as your situation became more dire? What then, do you think of GreyICE's attempts to "appease ABR"? Why didn't you ask GreyICE why he is voting you, then?

I believe the interactions are clear and no further needs to be said on this matter.

I'm starting to wonder a little about Nacho. He is feeling off his game.

You don't say.

GreyICE is a weird one for me.

You don't say.

Everyone else is a little bit of a blur

Metal is all over the place, I feel like he is posting a lot without really saying much.

The grass is blue, the sun is green, and I'm Obama.

____

This got a little long so part 2 is my argument for why GreyICE + Sotty is plausible.

[Metal Sonic]

Sonic's Weekend edition special

So I've given you guys a sneak peek of my areas of concern with regard to GreyICE earlier today.

Spoiler: #556

There are a couple of other inconsistencies in the game that will cause you distress when I point them out.

1. GreyICE was hard championing the Sotty wagon earlier today. Now, he has taken a back seat, and you have taken lead on this front, effectively pushing it for him.

2.

Seraphim (4) - Metal Sonic, Sotty7, Albert B. Rampage, GreyICE

Not only is the Sotty wagon gone, GreyICE was swift to sheep you (and me) on the Seraphim wagon, abandoning his bloodlust for Sotty. With this naked vote:

Vote: Seraphim

3.

G Ice, actually, I'd like you to tell me why Hoopla isn't a great lynch right now. It seems to me that she is.

He never actually responded to this. However, many of his posts prior to your call-out on #336 were lauds and praises for Hoopla's "town" analysis.

Firstly, let me explain my Sotty scumread. For me, it is based on poor reactions to jabs that I have observed in response to various players, including GreyICE.

Spoiler: Something old

I've been checking the thread all day but wasn't posting because I should do a long one at the com.

Just came in to report that the above post was extremely scummy for the above reasons:

1. Not denying that GreyICE's claim is absurd and/or not denying that her own slot is scum.
A town response would be either to dismiss GreYICE or because of the moral right that one has received a town PM, thus does not see the need to answer slanderous accusations. Sotty7 is going in-between, by discrediting GreyICE, while doing so in an indirect manner to suggest imposition and avoid conflict.

2. Accusatory instead of content
"I think that GreyICE"... In response to a push. Instead of providing content on other players or making a stand, Sotty's response was to attack GreyICE ad-hominem rather than something built in logic and/or ignoring the libelous arguments against herself. In no manner is any indication made of GreyICE's conclusion being called out right or wrong -- avoiding the topic of alignment altogether.


I wish I could post more but it's tough on a phone. Made this coherent and concise as possible.

Spoiler: Post of the day 3

So, a thousand or so words in and I haven't actually seen decent analysis or scumhunting from your slot. Okay, I have no idea how Sotty plays. I have never played with her before, no meta, and I have never heard of this player until I have joined this game.

But. A lack of scumhunting. Not trying to find out players' alignments. That's something to look out for, eh?

Okay, so anyway GreyICE was against Sotty because of the escapade with the "tokens" argument, which after my push for him to articulate his argument clearly in prose, was fundamentally wrong. Insofar I have agreed with his mafia theory, but that theory he did not apply specifically to the game in a logical manner. Therefore, GreyICE's initial reasons for scumreading Sotty were convoluted.

Spoiler: Not convincing enough?

Let's take another look for when GreyICE self-contradicts with regard to his read on Sotty.

sotty is apparently pathetic and the worst liar ever. And is a legendary scum player in the next post.

And another one:

This, dear class, is a textbook example of a self-contradiction. Distressingly, there are possible scum motivations for such a contradiction, which is regretful to hear from GreyICE.

(Okay, not in regard to Sotty, but Hoopla interactions are relevant too...)

Then later, I observed that GreyICE was no longer hard pushing Sotty; ABR took over the lead instead. Assume GreyICE scum. ABR would do the tough work of getting Sotty lynched, but GreyICE gets the easy part and a part of the town cred, potentially enabling him to survive for days. Not only that, in the future ABR will be pressured (Burden of Proficiency) to be hunting scum -- GreyICE will just sheep "whoever ABR votes". With a mislynch, ABR will be responsible, but with a successful scum lynch, GreyICE will be rewarded based on Vote Count Analysis (VCA). Tsk, GreyICE isn't ABR's lackey, it's the other way around!


Another perspective this can take is that GreyICE-scum's 'false push' had gone too fast. He was only intending to put pressure on Sotty early game to distance, or perhaps get some towncred if she flipped later in the game. To his horror, the bloodlust for Sotty was much larger than he had expected, therefore attempts were made to slow down the wagon -- we all have been briefed about how every scum lynch gives us another mislynch.

Then, we have this:

GreyICE is a weird one for me. His attacks on me all game have been shitty but when he actually sits back and details things from a whole game preservative I can kinda understand where he is coming from.

Sotty's becomes more lax on GreyICE. No longer going heads-to-heads. Of course, given my theory that they are both scum, some things can be left unsaid in their public conversations in the thread. I have highlighted earlier her preference to call me out on my Sotty vote, yet conveniently overlooked GreyICE's obvious "appeasement of ABR"; simply omitting his scummy actions and hoping nobody sees them. HELLO, I SEE THEM.


There's also this very peculiar post that can be left to your own interpretation:

Wait, why are we on a wagon with Sotty

Why is Sotty even on this wagon? The reasoning isn't even paper thin, unless you're buying tissue paper.

I have the sort of lack of understanding of this game that is preferably solved by corpses. A pile of very specific corpses.

Let's come to the point of their mutual townreads on Hoopla. GreyICE's townread of Hoopla has already been pointed out by many to be, what I'd call "not legit". Incidentally, so has Sotty's townread on Hoopla. And it's not like the entire game is scumreading Hoopla because of these two players townreading Hoopla -- we genuinely see Hoopla as scum independently of their reads. So, how do these mysterious Hoopla townreads come about? Why are Sotty and GreyICE defending the same player with dubious methodologies? Aren't they supposedly at loggerheads with each other? Apparently not, as #605 shows...

Sorry I'm lynching you for the wrong reasons, scumbag.

I apologize that I caught you for the wrong reasons

one of the best scum tells in the whole wide world is when someone starts bitching that you're wagoning them for the "wrong reasons".

Of course you caught her for the wrong reasons! It's a screwed up, convoluted, calculated bus, and if GreyICE thinks that Sotty's lynch is going to win him a spot at Town Block 2015, I, as administrator, strip him of this privilege.


[area=Conclusion
GreyICE's reasoning for his initial Sotty push was indeed for the 'wrong' reasons, and these only became apparent when I obliged him to write a longer paragraph detailing his thought processes. His actions after the wagon has started indicate a laid-back approach, as if he was expecting a large reward (town-cred) in return for his Sotty "push" -- the lack of true conviction in wanting a real scum lynched as compared to attempts receive the towncred is shown. Finally, both Sotty's and GreyICE's interactions and trajectories with regard to Hoopla are twisted, baffling, and bewildering, suggesting that they are scum together while performing an intricate strategy.[/area]

[Metal Sonic]

Conclusion

GreyICE's reasoning for his initial Sotty push was indeed for the 'wrong' reasons, and these only became apparent when I obliged him to write a longer paragraph detailing his thought processes. His actions after the wagon has started indicate a laid-back approach, as if he was expecting a large reward (town-cred) in return for his Sotty "push" -- the lack of true conviction in wanting a real scum lynched as compared to attempts receive the towncred is shown. Finally, both Sotty's and GreyICE's interactions and trajectories with regard to Hoopla are twisted, baffling, and bewildering, suggesting that they are scum together while performing an intricate strategy.

Should always preview before posting!

[Metal Sonic]

Having wgeurts in the town block instead of zar is pretty contrarian! I would really appreciate it if you could give the distinction: why wgeurts? Why not zar? Why wgeurts over zar?

3 questions with detailed answers please!

[Metal Sonic]

Sat on the fence? I think it was pretty clear that I was voting you during that period of time. Plus, the evidence you have quoted was post 127, before I have been tipped off about you-GreyICE interactions only recently. If you have any more recent and time-relevant examples please go ahead and show us.


Here is my hoopla case:

1. Super Lurky
2. 0 game-relevant content
3. No scumhunting
4. She doesn't have the free pass that nacho has


Since you and grey are 'townreading' hoopla in spite of all these, it makes sense to group the 3 of you together.

[Metal Sonic]

VOTE: Hoopla

My team suggests that this is the better vote and I'm fine with either

[Metal Sonic]

Lmao nobody posting on Sunday eh

[Metal Sonic]

... And accusing me of running away, because of course no piece of flailing is complete without the raw panic portion of tonight's entertainment!
...

And yes. I guess it's not actually running away, since you've decided to post, but that's indicative enough.

There are minutes between our exchange. 2 minutes per post. You were there and watching.

It doesn't take town a full hour to respond to a post.

Also, you hilarious piece of shit, I've been chatting with my girlfriend. About things that had nothing to do with the game, because I don't fucking care to stalk this thread.

You are using the fact I was away from this thread for ONE FUCKING HOUR to attack me? Because I wanted to chat with LLD?

You are HORRIBLE. You are fucking blacklist worthy. That sort of attack alone would put you on my blacklist for being an awful human being.

Enumerate the points against me shithead. You have two fucking minutes.

Considering that you posted your response like half an hour after Kagami's last post, I would assume that the conversation was over.

Also, LLD's your girlfriend? How sweet.

[Metal Sonic]

For the record, my rule of time response is 3x the time from the previous reply. So if I took 1 minute to respond to someone, that person can take 3.

I think we can use my definition for the purposes for this game.

[Metal Sonic]

Oh and by the by for those who are paying attention,

Silverwolf is currently posting in other games that she did not replace out of. Since replacing out, SilverWolf has made dozens of posts in other threads. Here is the link: http://forum.mafiascum.net/search.php?a ... 3&sr=posts

She replaced out from the entire game. Non alignment indicative. It's a dick move to accuse her of scum replacing out and you know it.

[Metal Sonic]

I mean all other reasons are fair game

[Metal Sonic]

Oh and by the by for those who are paying attention,

Silverwolf is currently posting in other games that she did not replace out of. Since replacing out, SilverWolf has made dozens of posts in other threads. Here is the link: http://forum.mafiascum.net/search.php?a ... 3&sr=posts

She replaced out from the entire game. Non alignment indicative. It's a dick move to accuse her of scum replacing out and you know it.

She replaced out of one single game. She's still active in two others. This is perfectly fair information to use.

And it's not like that's the ONLY reason SilverWolf's posts were scummy, or why I think Kagami is scum. But when you have a player who is known uncomfortable playing scum replacing out of one single game while remaining in others, that is alignment-relevant information.

She quit team mafia. So it is unfair information.

If she like, swapped with a teammate who is known to likes to play as scum or whatever, then it would be a perfectly valid point. And then we can kill the slot even without your arguments in here.

But that isn't the case.



There's one thing about using precise strikes and another thing about hitting below the belt

[Metal Sonic]

It is ethically wrong and I am not even going to entertain that shit

[Metal Sonic]

Do you have any thoughts that happened during your enormous lurk-fest?

You are using this "wagon" on me as an excuse to avoid everything else that happens in this game. You get to be a

Tabula Rasa

by tunneling. Is your plan to hope to get out of it on day 2? Or just salvage the SilverWolf slot by pushing one town lynch before you go down, and leave the least information possible in your ISO?

Who is town, Kagami? Who is scum? Do you have a town read on Seraphim? I know you have one on Sotty because "I voted for her" which is hilarious in and of itself.

Scum

GreyICE (TBD)
Hoopla (Confectionery Animals)

Zar Empire (The Westeros Circlejerk)
wgeurts (Young and Beautiful)
Metal Sonic (team nocaps)
Nachomamma8 (Gestalt)
ZZZX (TEAM WITH NO NAME)

EddieFenix (The Leftovers)
Seraphim (The Unviggable Vegetables)
Sotty7 (The Kliq)
Albert B. Rampage (Blue, Meth, Blade and Associates)

Town


Now it's your turn.

Is that in order? Because it seems like you put the town block in the middle, and the "town" at the bottom section

[Metal Sonic]

Why would you wait for them? Aren't they both scum?

[Metal Sonic]

So we should lynch them!

[Metal Sonic]

Why do we wait for them if we want to lynch them?

[Metal Sonic]

Did you do your reads before your reasons?

[Metal Sonic]

What do you think of GreyICE?

[Metal Sonic]

btw @sonic any change in your read list so far? I am interested to see your opinion so far afte rhte latest posts.

In short,

The biggest change is that GreyICE was very town but I am having serious doubts = is scum

[Metal Sonic]

leaning town= prob town but not town enough to bloc him

Very good answer. I wouldn't bloc him after how he is acting with Sotty

[Metal Sonic]

Post of the day 8 - Monday blues

Having wgeurts in the town block instead of zar is pretty contrarian! I would really appreciate it if you could give the distinction: why wgeurts? Why not zar? Why wgeurts over zar?

3 questions with detailed answers please!

Why not Zar? Zar hasn't done anything vaguely townish. He's made a weak push on me, then disappeared.

Meanwhile, Empire made a couple good posts but his main push was on town (you). It's also been proven in ASOIAF that scum-Empire can make a couple good posts and it's making consistent town posts that separates town game from scum game.

This can be explained by him replacing in recently and not having the time to catch up. What is scummy about that? Is not doing anything different as opposed to not doing anything townish?

Empire's entire ISO has been regarded by many to be [very] town. Can you say that his "town posts" have been inconsistent? What separates town posts from scum posts?

Wgeurts has had fantastic aggression this entire game, comes across as incredibly genuine in points like #438, #478, and has an impressive body of work in a game with a strong playerlist when he doesn't actually have any sort of scum game at all.

How do these traits make him town block material? Isn't aggression normally considered to be a scum trait, why would this make wgeurt's town in this scenario?

wgeurts has done absolutely nothing in this game except for his main push on town (me). By your definition this makes him significantly more negative than Empire. Why is wgeurts getting townread in spite of this? Why is it a negative point in the case of Empire?

Sotty/Kagami have teamed up at a couple of points against Grey, whereas I'm not really seeing anyone who has backed up Grey in the way that I would expect from a scum partner.

Have you seen my posts where I validate Sotty/Kagami's points against Grey? Surprising, because Sotty/Kagami appear to be the "bad guys" and Grey appears to be the "good guy". Will this change your opinion of Grey in any way?

So, if Hoopla is scum, those two alternatives seem like pretty strong partner suggestions AND their flips will be more informative than Hoopla's AND I think there are stronger reasons to call those two scum whereas reasons to call Hoopla scum are pretty much just "useless, lurking".

GreyICE has been shown to townread Hoopla for pretty terrible reasons too! What do you think?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=60046

Here it is! I understand glancing through another game is -work- and not necessarily something you have a whole lot of time for, but I think it will help you understand where I'm coming from with my read on him, especially if you don't have experience with him before this game.

Thanks for the share, but I was a mason that game :p

This is called lying, by the by.

wgeurts has made me very sensitive to the word 'lying' so if we all can refrain from using it that would be splendid!

At least

show

how it is a lie. How it contradicts given facts.

You know what we do with liars?

Do you want to be lynching me too, GreyICE?

MS, please get your ass on the GI wagon.

Discussing this at length with my team currently. There are disagreements, so I'm drafting a case first to address those issues. Once we are satisfied, there is going to be a pretty huge slam.

The fact that GreyICE

had no reaction to the [above] shitty "accusation" leveled at me.

is going

very, very, very, very, very, very

well in your favor.

Your townreads are people who call you town. Your scumreads are people who question your alignment.

He's going to be in a bit of a headache when I slam him. If he's yet to resolve most, if not all the issues that I have already enumerated clearly in the game thread plus points of contention that I am discussing with my team.

Scum

GreyICE (TBD)
Hoopla (Confectionery Animals)

Zar Empire (The Westeros Circlejerk)
wgeurts (Young and Beautiful)
Metal Sonic (team nocaps)
Nachomamma8 (Gestalt)
ZZZX (TEAM WITH NO NAME)

EddieFenix (The Leftovers)
Seraphim (The Unviggable Vegetables)
Sotty7 (The Kliq)
Albert B. Rampage (Blue, Meth, Blade and Associates)

Town

Hey, Kagami,
Hey Hey, Kagami,

Hey, Kagami,
Hey Hey, Kagami,

This reads list is an utter piece of pure bull shit.

Look, I just chastised Seraphim for posting crap on #219

Your second post was a bit less shit, because you provided your reads, so that we can see where you stand on the players in the game. Unfortunately, it is still shit, because firstly, there was no trajectory on any of your reads, which means that it came out of nowhere. Secondly, there is a lack of accountability, as there was no previous indication on how you were arriving at your reads, we are unable to see your thought processes behind the reads. Thirdly, it is shit, because your reasoning is scarce, less than 9 words for each read, we are unable to gain any new insights from your post. Finally, it is shit, because anybody could come up with that readslist by making a "Town", "Null", and "Scum" section, and randomly fill in the appropriate categories with the names in the playerlist -- it is falsifiable.

It is 700 posts into the game so

garbage like this is not acceptable.

I understand that you're messing with GreyICE but

I'm not going to be a hypocrite and condone this shit, so pull yourself together.

I expect better from Kagami. Town Kagami.

But, if you don't care about that, what do you think of Kagami's "reads list" and his justification he gave above?

Yeah, I don't care about that. And Kagami's reads list is Seraphim-level. Booboo.

If we fail to lynch scum in the first/2nd lynch I believe we should use a vengeful style for the coming lynches.

it might feel stubid but its the only way to survive later on since scum make up just a little less than 50% of the town. refusal of this is pure anti town/scum

ThoughtsL?

The vengeful style is fucking stupid. end.

______

In order:

Town Block

Metal Sonic
ZZZX
ABR
Zar

Town

EddieFenix
Nachomamma
wgeurts (I WAS scumreading him but relativity <<<<<)
Kagami

Scum

GreyICE
Sotty
Seraphim
Hoopla

[Metal Sonic]

sorry for not giving this game the time it deserves.

please apologise to the team because you will die at some point in time. no exceptions.

[Metal Sonic]

*your team

[Metal Sonic]

Nice posts, thanks for your contribution to Nachomamma trust fund!

During these five days of game time, he has made four posts. 5 days is more than enough time to get your bearing in the game and make an impression, but Zar hasn't... Why?

Why? I don't know. Is that supposed to be a scummy thing? Remember that Zar/Empire's team is one of the stronger ones, I'm expecting good play, regardless of alignment. A lack of play, is also probably not due to alignment!

How long will you give him a free pass based on Empire's play which, unfortunately, wasn't that fantastic?

Good question. Zar *just* checked in though, so I think we can keep that worry in the backburner. I would have given him as much as a free pass as I have given you, if not more (due to Empire's credit balance), until your #612 which is also about 5 days?

Empire's ISO has been regarded by many as "very town". Who are these people?

I'm making the assumption that those who have had Empire in their "town block" had the aforementioned belief. This includes ZZZX, myself, ABR, EddieFenix, wgeurts, {GreyICE, Sotty, Seraphim} <my scumreads. So apparently, most of the game!

The people who can read Empire best and are in this game (Tammy, Llamarble, Mina, Regfan, me) are either on his team, not involved with this game, or are on my team. My team is not reading him as town. This is something important to remember if my slot ever flips.

Noted! Only Llamarble is on your team though, but one expert is enough

Why didn't he interact with me more before he left?

Uh, I think that it's because you weren't really in the game, but I might be wrong!

Why didn't he post a big leaving post before he went? Why didn't he say anything?

No idea lol.

Zar, are you able to telepath to Empire about this?

Grey bussing Kagami/Sotty/Hoopla is possible.

Grey isn't bussing Hoopla! We are lynching her independently!

[Metal Sonic]

I'm doing over a detailed read of the thread to catch up. Currently up to page 20. Bear with me, I will be fully caught up by tomorrow and have some team insight as well then. The reads wil be updated accordingly should there be any changes.

This is what I have so far:

READS

TOWN
ABR
Metal Sonic
GreyICE
wgeurts
ZZZX
Nachomamma
Hoopla
Kagami/Silver
Eddie
Seraphim
Sotty
SCUM

Spoiler: Reads

Albert B. Rampage.

Think ABR is pretty obvtown. The whole wgeurts/SW dilemma betweeen 74-75 is aggressive and something I don't think scum would bank on early on, specially if you're trying to gather enough cred to look appeasing. I also like how ABR is took the lead in directing the comments in 166-168. Overall, all of his activity comes across as actively analyzing motivations and trying to get into the mindset of the players reacing (like 204, and him trying to sort out Seraphim's behavior in 369, 371, 373, and the analysis of 399).

Metal Sonic

I've been giving some thought to Empire's concerns on MetalSonic's lie in 18, and I think he would have reasons to lie regardless of alignment about the tokens. I can see Metal Sonic's comment onto Sotty in 127 as showing transparency of thought process and interest in discerning her alingment. I think I can follow MetalSonic's line of thought regarding wgeurts in #136 as of why it would be something to find suspicious (particularly, if you take into consideration wgeurts himself admittedly made a conscious post that would lead him to be pursued). Similar thoughts with 236, especially liking that it seems Metal Sonic is tryig to figure out alignments. some of his steams of consciousness come across as unfiltered and natural (like 240) so he gives off a relaxed feel which I would associate with town.

GreyICE

I think GreyICE's comment to ZZZX's thoughts in 102 reads town on tone. The point on ZZZX's content to contribution ratio in 104 was accurate and valid. I can follow the thought process to pursue Sotty from 119 and the reasoning provided in 140 to strengthen the read. It feels like GreyICE has read between the lines in sotty's response. Thought his 214 regarding sotty seemed like a very detailed, organized case on why Sotty is likely scum here and GreyICE's analysis comes accross as genuine and unbiased in it. And ICE's observation into Eddie's reaction in 317 seems fairly accurtate with what I was thinking so far.

wgeurts

I liked his 64 looks better, re: the questioning directed to MS and ZZZX, along with 67, where wgeurts pressuring ABR for an explanation for his vote on SilverWolf. I also do like how in 69 he's basically demanding for an explanation to the MS early town reads. I didn't understand why if wgeurts was trying to pick on ABR's brain in 71 he gave him ABR a cop-out to respond to him early on if he wanted to poke him for an answer. I get he you thought that it wasn't enough to change his vote from ABR then, but you did give him an explanation yourself to get out of the question asking him. Also, 139 is something I can see coming from town!wgeurts (Re: ABR vote push), since it's something I would have done to a slot with player I've been in a game before and that I'd have enough comparative meta to use as a reference. (Re: pushing ABR for a reasoning), even if I do not agree with the reasoning he's using to vote MetalSonic which seems to stem from MS's suspicions of him. I do agree with GI who said it looks like wgeurts seems to be trying to sort the game out (even if it's somehwat unconventional). TBH by 296 I'm starting to get a bit bored by the wgeurts's tunnel onto Metal Sonic for scumreading him and would like to see that slot concentrating on scumhunting elsewhere.

ZZZX

Still thinking town, but not as strong as a read as I had caught my impression during my skim. 19 I felt was a genuine town-tell, like a stream of consciousness that I think ZZZX wouldn't have slipped naturally if he were mafia. While I am townreading MetalSonic, thought the read handed out in 58 seemed rather pedestrian. I didn't like ZZZX's immediate reaction to Albert's vote on wgeurts in 76 and 78; especially because it looked like ZZZX is quick to deflect from focusing on scumhunting to use an argument like a "bad play" to vote. The reasoning is less related to thinking ABR is scum and more of a dislike of playstyle, which is an easier route to go if you're scum because it's a mental way to justify pushing a player. I also didn't like the reaction stemming from GreyICE's 102... particularly the feel of a "No, You" kind of response and a reactionary vote and consequent reactionary scumread haded in 129-130. I did like ZZZX's questioning of Nacho's actions, since hiss comments are directly related to Sotty GreyICE but as he points out, Nacho votes away without explaining where the vote's coming from instead.

Nachomamma

,
I'm found Nacho a bit scummy because of his unexplained shift on Seraphim. I also feel Nacho has thrown in a few towntells early on that aren't hard to fake townread for 38 but I feel like he's competent enough to manipulate enough to use such a comment to appear townish. As for 133 I don't really think it's alignment relevant, as I think scum!Nacho would know how to avoid GreyICE picking a fight with Sotty for instance if they're partners. Of what I read so far, the only thing I'm liking from Nacho so far is 157, as it would appear that he's analyzed what wgeurts had said about to try to understand the MS/wgeurts argument so
181-183 look like fairly transparent streams of consciousness.

Hoopla

Hoopla's SW vote in 225 and relegating to sheeping nacho onto that wagon early and shifting the responsibility of the entry vote "wanting to help nacho" seems convenient? I find her focus on theory rather than hunt suspicious, but I'm less convinced on Hoopla based on some of the people that have gone after her.

SilverWolf/Kagami

I didn't like Silverworf's entrance in posts 6 and 55, to me seems a bit overexplanatory and like a post someone who's concerned of their own image would be focused on. As far as Kagami goes, in 351 the logic behind Sotty flipping town because GreyICE wants to lynch her looks convoluted, especially because it seems to be based in the flawed assumption that sotty can't be scum because GreyICE thinks she's lying and apparently in a poor manner and if sotty's a legendary scum player then the first assumption can't be true?.

EddieFenix

The stated reasons in 207 to call GreyICE scum seem superficial and OMGUSsy; no explanation for the wgeurts scumread provied. Eddie's 217-230 look like a Chainsaw onto GreyICE after the Sotty case.

Seraphim.

Still think the list of empty reads in 219 followed by the SW vote feels like easy contribution. 348 I don't really like how Seraphim has then changed his mind on Sotty as the wagon picked interest, just like ABR pointed out. 485 from ABR is spot on on some of the inconsistencies in Seraphim's reasoning to vote. I also don't really like how Seraphim tried to shift the focus of being questioned as opposed to interacting when he said

Sotty

Sotty's 112 feels like an awful self-aware post. I mean, mostly because the entry is about her activity level and a side-comment on Nacho's entry comment on her. Stemming from my limited experience from the Wire, I would've expected Sotty to be more engaging questioning to discern alignments and scumhunting since in my limited experience with her in the Wire, she seemed a more straightforward player there than she's being here. Also, the deflection to Hoopla of GreyIcE's vote on her strikes me like a semantical argument I'd expect from a compentent player that can't find a better reason to vote. I also don't like her reaction to the suspicions in 208, since I don't see how GI has been shifting the goalpost, as sotty seems to be accusing GI for.

read and analysed all of this. pretty salient. = town.

not gonna do another wall because lack of time and i dont think people wanna read all that anyway

[Metal Sonic]

i'm "meh" on kagami. some of her points against GreyICE are valid but some of her posts are bad beyond bad. no way i can put her in a town block. meh.

[Metal Sonic]

and im still top poster

i've already cut down on so much of my posting.......

[Metal Sonic]

hello. i'm back with a free scheduele to play this game now. sorry for not giving this game the time it deserves.

*reading*

I hope you're still reading! It's going to hit 3 hours!

[Metal Sonic]

hello. i'm back with a free scheduele to play this game now. sorry for not giving this game the time it deserves.

*reading*

I hope you're still reading! I await your valuable insights on this rich and vibrant game, for the greatest of minds!

[Metal Sonic]

she's not coming...

[Metal Sonic]

VOTE: Kagami

Ok

[Metal Sonic]

Who will help me lynch Nacho if Kagami flips town?

Me

[Metal Sonic]

He might be town. The only sure bets for town in this game are me and Metal Sonic.

Nacho saying the entire Kagami wagon is town is suspicious.

I think he's overplaying his hand.

Yes.

[Metal Sonic]

Dude, he just posted "I think this person who has a wagon on them and this other person who currently has one person voting them and doesn't have a wagon on them are both scum. Lemme go join the wagon of the person

WHO I PREVIOUSLY DECLINED TO JOIN WHEN SHE WAS ACTUALLY UNDER PRESSURE

"

I will actually shed a tear or two if that came from town.

Then vote the sucker

[Metal Sonic]

Sottyscum will be forced to vote for him too cause of her trajectory.

[Metal Sonic]

burn! Add ice to greyice

[Metal Sonic]

Fuck yes.

VOTE: hoopla

[Metal Sonic]

Aww that's cute.

Can you hammer?

[Metal Sonic]

Here comes the shit kit

[Metal Sonic]

I think that hoopla was not reading the game enough to have a personal investment into whether she has been hammered or not.

I do not plan on moving my vote.

[Metal Sonic]

You be like... "Lol this wagon is going too fast must be scum lol"

Meanwhile crying for Sotty and Kagami blood

They aren't even on the wagon

The fuck is your point?

[Metal Sonic]

But ok let's get rid of seraphim if anyone wants to pull another flash wagon

[Metal Sonic]

of course bae

[Metal Sonic]

About?

[Metal Sonic]

Okay Eddie, let's talk long term motivations

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that ABR is town, and I hope he feels the same way about me.

When we get down to it, this game is essentially a white flag Mafia without the shitty killing. The last Mafiosi can just up and fucking forfeit , cause when it comes down to the wire, there's no way they can win a 3p Lylo against an invincible Mason team. Those suckers over at the white flag game had a run for their tokens, and surprise surprise cause I didn't put any of my team into that bullshit setup.

So everybody's gonna wish they had rolled town, cause 4 unlucky players are returning to their teams empty handed, while 6 other lucky ones are going to enjoy the hard carry.

[Metal Sonic]

Your team? Not your team. Your town.

Even your team can't obvtown that fast. Unless you refer to another team. Hehe

[Metal Sonic]

because scum

[Metal Sonic]

no daily post today guiz

nobody reads them anyway i dont think anymore

lets eviscerate hoopla

[Metal Sonic]

Scum

GreyICE (TBD)
Hoopla (Confectionery Animals)

Zar Empire (The Westeros Circlejerk)
wgeurts (Young and Beautiful)
Metal Sonic (team nocaps)
Nachomamma8 (Gestalt)
ZZZX (TEAM WITH NO NAME)

EddieFenix (The Leftovers)
Seraphim (The Unviggable Vegetables)
Sotty7 (The Kliq)
Albert B. Rampage (Blue, Meth, Blade and Associates)

Town

Hey, Kagami,
Hey Hey, Kagami,

Hey, Kagami,
Hey Hey, Kagami,

This reads list is an utter piece of pure bull shit.

Look, I just chastised Seraphim for posting crap on #219

Your second post was a bit less shit, because you provided your reads, so that we can see where you stand on the players in the game. Unfortunately, it is still shit, because firstly, there was no trajectory on any of your reads, which means that it came out of nowhere. Secondly, there is a lack of accountability, as there was no previous indication on how you were arriving at your reads, we are unable to see your thought processes behind the reads. Thirdly, it is shit, because your reasoning is scarce, less than 9 words for each read, we are unable to gain any new insights from your post. Finally, it is shit, because anybody could come up with that readslist by making a "Town", "Null", and "Scum" section, and randomly fill in the appropriate categories with the names in the playerlist -- it is falsifiable.

It is 700 posts into the game so

garbage like this is not acceptable.

I understand that you're messing with GreyICE but

I'm not going to be a hypocrite and condone this shit, so pull yourself together.

I expect better from Kagami. Town Kagami.

[Metal Sonic]

This game has been a difficult largely because I'm hopelessly out of position against a player who is very clearly scum.

bullshit excuse


i dont think u have been reading the game at all


why dont you begin your path to redemption by fixing the above

[Metal Sonic]

Kagami, quit acting stupid or you'll prove Titus wrong and make a big embarrassment out of her.

<3 Titus too ~ hahaha

[Metal Sonic]

he doesnt.


dont be like him

[Metal Sonic]

kagami this is directly addressed to you

Scum

GreyICE (TBD)
Hoopla (Confectionery Animals)

Zar Empire (The Westeros Circlejerk)
wgeurts (Young and Beautiful)
Metal Sonic (team nocaps)
Nachomamma8 (Gestalt)
ZZZX (TEAM WITH NO NAME)

EddieFenix (The Leftovers)
Seraphim (The Unviggable Vegetables)
Sotty7 (The Kliq)
Albert B. Rampage (Blue, Meth, Blade and Associates)

Town

Hey, Kagami,
Hey Hey, Kagami,

Hey, Kagami,
Hey Hey, Kagami,

This reads list is an utter piece of pure bull shit.

Look, I just chastised Seraphim for posting crap on #219

Your second post was a bit less shit, because you provided your reads, so that we can see where you stand on the players in the game. Unfortunately, it is still shit, because firstly, there was no trajectory on any of your reads, which means that it came out of nowhere. Secondly, there is a lack of accountability, as there was no previous indication on how you were arriving at your reads, we are unable to see your thought processes behind the reads. Thirdly, it is shit, because your reasoning is scarce, less than 9 words for each read, we are unable to gain any new insights from your post. Finally, it is shit, because anybody could come up with that readslist by making a "Town", "Null", and "Scum" section, and randomly fill in the appropriate categories with the names in the playerlist -- it is falsifiable.

It is 700 posts into the game so

garbage like this is not acceptable.

I understand that you're messing with GreyICE but

I'm not going to be a hypocrite and condone this shit, so pull yourself together.

I expect better from Kagami. Town Kagami.

[Metal Sonic]

fucking scum theatre

[Metal Sonic]

Sotty shows up irregularly to bring us regular heartbreaking stories of how she labors for 12 hours each day in the coal mines, splitting rocks with her bare hands, only to collapse exhausted into the chair and laboriously read the game. Strangely her own team must be in the coal mines next to her, because they ain't helping.

Kagami is sitting there busily hoping you'll give him enough time to backfill a reads list that was utterly insane.

Grey Ice, girls must love you, that was hilarious LOL! Just trying to eat my pear here, please stop making me laugh lolll

2nd.

My teammate, vezokpiraka, strongly agrees

[Metal Sonic]

Not today. Day 1 is almost over. Kill the cake lady, She is full of lies

[Metal Sonic]

I hope you give your long thoughts in due time

[Metal Sonic]

HAPPY CAKEDAY ABR!!!!!!!!

8th year anniversary that is amazingly long

[Metal Sonic]

Try counting the votes when hoopla was at l-1

There was abr, GreyICE and wgeurts. That was more legit. Now there is GreyICE yelling again and everyone ran away

[Metal Sonic]

Was Kagami in organic chemistry? I don't remember her. Vezokpiraka would like to say that he has Kagami as town because of orgo chem

[Metal Sonic]

Kagami wasn't in organic chemistry, I'm not sure what he's talking about.

I think still think that we should lynch hoopla

[Metal Sonic]

Kagami wasn't in organic chemistry, I'm not sure what he's talking about.

vezok has made a mistake, he remembered the wrong player

carry on.




@ABR lol we couldnt even get a Hoopla lynch, it's not possible to lynch nacho today regardless

[Metal Sonic]

If Sotty returned for a last hurrah, it's very easy to think that she would select scum for it. Mith did it in the first team mafia, and he's the site's founder! That gives me a very good reason to believe that she would token scum, and LLD's game (pre-remake) gives me a very good reason to believe those who token scum would get it.

Whoa whoa whoa stop here son. Just because somebody did something doesn't mean that another specific person would do the same thing. Slippery slope argument. Logic gap. Nonsense. Bad argument.

And even if you "think" that she would token scum (P.S: nobody in their right mind tokens scum in this setup),

"LLD's game (pre-remake) gives me a very good reason to believe those who token scum would get it."

is a terrible fallacy. This shit won't hold up in a debate argument. Even if the conclusion is true (I do not know), it is an objectively terrible argument. Objectively.

[Metal Sonic]

Kagami wasn't in organic chemistry, I'm not sure what he's talking about.

vezok has made a mistake, he remembered the wrong player

carry on.




@ABR lol we couldnt even get a Hoopla lynch, it's not possible to lynch nacho today regardless

Metal if I sheep you on hoopla will you sheep me on kagami 2moro?

i dont sheep anybody sorry!!

[Metal Sonic]

yea u missed the fun hammer times

[Metal Sonic]

Mafia ain't a debate, son. If it's a debate, then the same players will always be lynched, because debating ability is utterly independent of any sort of objective truth. I've watched a creationist demolish a guy with a PhD in biology in a stand-up, on-camera, lots of prep time debate, trust me, debating is good only for the entertainment of people who enjoy watching debates.

Fact is, tokens are a damn good reason to look at someone hard. Replacing out from one specific game is a damn good reason to look at a slot hard.

Oh and debates? Debates are useless here. You should know that if you know anything about debates - you debate philosophy, not facts. You debate "what should abortion policy be" or "what's a good tax rate" not "Is water in fact wet" or "Can you burn a piece of wood in a normal atmosphere". Role PMs are facts. You get them at the start of the game. You'll never win over scum to the idea that their role PM is red, they know for a fact it is long before you start "debating" them. Wagons good, debates bad.

You aren't debating with the lynchee, we aren't debating "are you scum". We're debating "Should x be lynched" or "Is zoraster in fact scum".

So yes, debates. I mean, what do you call a judicial process? Is the man guilty or not guilty? Usually the answer is a fact, set in stone, but they argue anyway. If you don't consider that a debate then fine, you win.

[Metal Sonic]

In fact, we can get some expertise here in the form of Titus.

[Metal Sonic]

VOTE: GreyICE

[Metal Sonic]

Also, that was shit hoopla. 5x worse than suburban warfare.

On the bright side, she is probably demoralized because her team is probably not going to win!


And luckily for her she got the winning alignment -___-

You know what these things are called? Freeloaders. Leechers. Parasites.

[Metal Sonic]

So you think that Nacho is possibly bussing Kagami?

[Metal Sonic]

i dont plan on writing a case against greyice

(because nobody reads my stuff apparently)

so I am going to ask this 1 question:

Greyice, do you read the posts of players that you scumread?

[Metal Sonic]

you guys want concise? i can do concise. i can do concise pretty damn well.

[Metal Sonic]

wgeurts, I invite you to read my posts. The long ones, especially. Then you will have a better idea of what's going on.

This will be interesting indeed.

[Metal Sonic]

do you not have the slightest thought that greyice is scum

[Metal Sonic]

I've been scumbuddies with Nacho, he lurked and was disinterested so much that I threw him under the bus and won solo.

I mean, fuck, he just bragged that he won a scumgame solo while bussing nacho.

it just confirms my suspicion that he is capable of all this shit

[Metal Sonic]

are you sure about this...? :/

I feel that greyice would be the insidious one here

[Metal Sonic]

i mean the exchange on page 41 is a blatant attempt to wrestle power from you and keep his options open. every1 knows that they have to endgame us because if we catch 2 scum their game is over

[Metal Sonic]

Who on earth is scum reading ICE and why?
Working on a detailed explained post on her which will be made soon but first I'm finishing reading 20 pages.

Do you want to go first or I go first?

You can go first

[Metal Sonic]

Well, that is sad news to hear. My condolences, GreyICE.

VOTE: nachomamma

I will still make my case and revote when you return to the game.

[Metal Sonic]

Umm actually the way things are going you will have to *push*

Not so much of wait

[Metal Sonic]

Scum:

Nachomamma
Sotty
wgeurts
ZZZX

Try replacing ZZZX with seraphim. Or GreyICE. That would work.

[Metal Sonic]

I will show you why GreyICE probably isn't.


Lol@ seraphim I think his behavior is clear

[Metal Sonic]

Ok. Just be aware that if he is indeed scum he would be the hardest one to lynch

[Metal Sonic]

So you will definitely need to do heavier heaving

[Metal Sonic]

Did you make a mistake in putting "zzzx" as scum?

[Metal Sonic]

@ABR and MS, got Mollie on my team reading Nacho as town. I'll see if I can get an update on that read from her. Oiiiiii. Been a long couple of days with college. Comin back a bit this weekend full force for sure.

GreyICE is on the table. You can enjoy to slam him

[Metal Sonic]

Many posts will destroy

[Metal Sonic]

Eh nacho a warning. If I successfully destroy #1129 and other of your recent walls you are going down the hatchet


I just woke up so blehh

[Metal Sonic]

I think that an appropriate analogy for the current situation is:


"Your town credit has expired."

Like you're going at it worse than Zar. At least for day 1

[Metal Sonic]

Sonic and I agree. You are scum. End of discussion.

Correction: I was ambivalent. Abr was absolutely convinced.

I place vote to support the cause + GreyICE is away

[Metal Sonic]

oh hi you're back

[Metal Sonic]

vezokpiraka would like to say that zzzx's last few posts were like he was scum caught for the wrong reasons!

[Metal Sonic]

havent been able to write walls cause very busy with programming business

getting zzzx to help me outside of game!