Mini 1709: Radjarok: Game over!
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vijay2vasandani Mafia Scum
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Haschel Cedricson Mr. Know It All
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I wasn't asking you.In post 255, Accountant wrote:In post 252, Haschel Cedricson wrote:
Hey gob, give me a four-or-five-word read on the following players: stoz, texcat, Accountant.
VeeGee, you may do this as well.
I'll do it too.
gob wrote:stoz: Town read, he is very helpful in his 9 posts and i can tell he is reading the game and keeping up.
I think his posts like #208 really show he is on the town side of things.
texcat: scum read, if we look at posts like #198 it shows her trying to twist my words. She has never crossed paths with anyone besides me or accountant really (outside of RVS)
Accountant: Town, i think my quick statement of accusing her of OMGUS was wrong before. She has been trying to better town in a way that is apparent, however, there is one thing i want to note.She hardly took a stance on me in her large wall-text post.i can understand that its day 1 and all but i really find this interesting as i thought the post itself was interesting but her final statements did not leave clarity on her stance.
Re: Texcat, how are your words being twisted?
As for Accountant, you think she is town, but you also argue her lack of stance in her wall post is a problem and then start implying that she is not town after all. This is contradictory.
In post 273, Dessew wrote:Do you know what "particularly" means? Because I'm pretty sure you don't, & that's fine, because the topic here is not the quality of the English you are using, not even the quality of your posts, but wether gob is town or scum. So look it up in a dictionary & then adjust your read in the light of that.[/quote
My English is fine; the only problem here is you willfully failing to parse a simple sentence correct. As for my gob read, I asked him a question and he dodged it, so nothing changes there.
Dessew wrote:I'm a lazy bum, so I'm not gonna check it now, but iirc, Hopkirk was the first one, to make an association between gob and me, not stoz. Secondly, he's lying in that post.
You recall incorrectly. Secondly, where is the lie?
In post 262, Accountant wrote:Okay, so I would like everyone who reads this post to post a quick(one sentence) read on me, plus an addendum about whether you think I'm fence-sitting.
I think you have made some really awful posts for which I can find no town motive.
Addendum: Fence-sitting is not the correct phrase to describe your stance on gob.
Addendum to the addendum:Vote: Accountant.-
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Accountant Jack of All Trades
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Klingoncelt Jack of All Trades
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In post 262, Accountant wrote:Okay, so I would like everyone who reads this post to post a quick(one sentence) read on me, plus an addendum about whether you think I'm fence-sitting. Because the way I see it a 20% more likely chance of being mafia than town is pretty big, especially 11 pages in on a guy who's been messing up all my reads with his incomprehensible posts.
Definitely you aren't fence-sitting.
I am concerned that you'll let anger and by-the-book play cloud your instincts.
So far you appear Town.
But this is just Day 1...Klingoncelt: "The whole scumteam slipped on page 1. It's the new meta. Sheep me because my reads are so accurate that whoever I name gets mod-converted to scum."-MiniDeathStar-
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Klingoncelt Jack of All Trades
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In post 265, gob wrote:Because mafia love to fence sit. This is Mafia 101 come on dude.
No matter how you look at it, you cant blame me for calling you out.
Mafia don't fence sit much on this site.Klingoncelt: "The whole scumteam slipped on page 1. It's the new meta. Sheep me because my reads are so accurate that whoever I name gets mod-converted to scum."-MiniDeathStar-
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Klingoncelt Jack of All Trades
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In post 268, St Constantine the Hermit wrote:Hey guys, let me catch up please
Constantine, dammit, stop.
You committed to the game. Keep the fuck up.Klingoncelt: "The whole scumteam slipped on page 1. It's the new meta. Sheep me because my reads are so accurate that whoever I name gets mod-converted to scum."-MiniDeathStar-
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Haschel Cedricson Mr. Know It All
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In post 277, Accountant wrote:Haschel, can you ISO me so we know what awful posts you're referring to?
I'm not gonna quote your entire ISO, but here's the relevant parts:
This comes across as "I am willing to bus you, but I don't want to."In post 205, Accountant wrote:Convince me why I should vote gob over you, VeeGee. Build a case against him, because right now I'm pushing for your lynch, not his.
At the time this was posted VeeGee only had four votes on him and was in no practical danger of being quickhammered, so why bring it up as a possibility?In post 212, Accountant wrote:I agree that we need to lynch VeeGee, but we definitely should not hammer early. To be clear, I'm autolynching anybody that quickhammers VeeGee, even if VG turns out to be scum.
Did you read his reads list? It didn't have strong opinions at all.In post 244, Accountant wrote:
Town!Gob
- Posted a clear and unambiguous reads list early in the game. I can't imagine that scum would commit to a position so early, especially with such strong opinions.
These are mutually exclusive.In post 244, Accountant wrote:
Town!Gob
[...]
- Has been transparent in his thinking. If he thinks someone is scum, he doesn't hesitate to say it. Same for townreads.
[...]
Scum!Gob
- Dodged quite a few questions. What does he have to hide?
If you actually think that gob is definitely not a vanilla townie,In post 244, Accountant wrote:CONCLUSION:
Gob is vanilla townie : 0%
Gob is power role : 5% given his known meta for acting somewhat unbalanced as a PR
Gob is a clueless town member: 40%
Gob is scum: 60%
Gob is most likely VI/scum.why the hell would you announce that in the thread?I can see literally no scum motivation for that. Also, if he's not vanilla, and he's only 5% a power role, then where does 40% clueless town come from?
You've been talking me up quite a bit in this game, even in posts that supposedly have nothing to do with me. It's one thing for me to be a townread, but after a while it comes across as buddying.In post 249, Accountant wrote:Haschel Cedricson is my top town read by far.
If you are town, why do you care what other people think about you? It's one thing to defend yourself against a case, but a general question like this is more about making sure you'reIn post 262, Accountant wrote:Okay, so I would like everyone who reads this post to post a quick(one sentence) read on me, plus an addendum about whether you think I'm fence-sitting.lookingtown instead of actuallybeingtown.-
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Accountant Jack of All Trades
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gob he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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In post 279, Klingoncelt wrote:In post 265, gob wrote:Because mafia love to fence sit. This is Mafia 101 come on dude.
No matter how you look at it, you cant blame me for calling you out.
Mafia don't fence sit much on this site.
And that is why i gave her a town read, still. I just wanted to mention it.-
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havingfitz Survivor
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Will try to get a post in tomorrow (RL).Town 57w-66l :: Not Town 29w-16l:: TBD 2
V/LA on weekends (i.e. RL > mafia)
The shortest GTKAS thread ever!-
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Accountant Jack of All Trades
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This comes across as "I am willing to bus you, but I don't want to."
According to post #253, I'm the first to vote VeeGee, and I haven't taken my vote off since even though other lynch candidates(such as Dessew or gob, or even stoz) have been pointed out. Do you think a mafia would bus their buddy that far on Day 1.
I've noticed that people who are under pressure tend to be able to notice a lot of scummy things about other people, perhaps because they're incentivized strongly to convince town to lynch someone else. At worst, I get more content out of a scummy, fairly quiet player. At best, VeeGee provides convincing evidence against gob, who is then exposed as scum and lynched.
At the time this was posted VeeGee only had four votes on him and was in no practical danger of being quickhammered, so why bring it up as a possibility?
It's a standard habit I have every time a player looks like a viable lynch candidate. Most of my forum mafia experience is from a forum where quickhammers were fairly common, especially because a large portion of the players were new to mafia. Gobln, who quickhammered in Newbie 1632, is also in the game, so I needed to put it out early.
Did you read his reads list? It didn't have strong opinions at all.
This was my error; upon reread, I concede that the reads list was indeed not very strong. My point that scum had no reason to post an unasked-for reads list with stances taking on certain people("literally bare-bones stuff, just trying to get by" makes it pretty clear what he thinks of me, for example), because it gives them less flexibility in a fluid situation like Day 1 where reads can change fast(sort of like how I went from townreading gob to VI/scumreading him).
These are mutually exclusive.
Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. What I meant was that Gob is transparent in that he throws out whatever he's thinking off the top of his head when unprompted or given a loose question like "what are your reads?", but becomes evasive when someone else asks him specific, direct questions.
If you actually think that gob is definitely not a vanilla townie, why the hell would you announce that in the thread? I can see literally no scum motivation for that. Also, if he's not vanilla, and he's only 5% a power role, then where does 40% clueless town come from?
I was giving my best read on gob at that time. Perhaps you can't see any town motivation for that, but scum wouldn't have any reason to do so either(if I was scum and suspected gob was a powerful role, all I have to do is wait for night and go "pst! let's NK gob!".
"power role" referring to a powerful role, not a role with a night ability. Cop is an example of a power role; something like Deputy isn't.
I agree this part should have been more clear, so I'm clarifying it now.
You've been talking me up quite a bit in this game, even in posts that supposedly have nothing to do with me. It's one thing for me to be a townread, but after a while it comes across as buddying.
My point remains. I think you're a strong player and most likely town. Look at that in whatever way you want to.
If you are town, why do you care what other people think about you? It's one thing to defend yourself against a case, but a general question like this is more about making sure you'relookingtown instead of actuallybeingtown.
I wanted feedback about whether gob's accusation of me fence-sitting had any substance, because if it was and people told me I was indeed engaged in fencesitting, that would be a sign to correct my behavior. Same with the reads; if 5 people had responded to that post with "I think you're filthy scum", that would be a sign that I was doing something wrong, especially since this is my first game on MafiaScum(I played in a newbie, but had to be replaced after 3 posts).
I fail to see how scum asking this question would make them look town. If they're being scumread, asking this wouldn't make them look more scummy than before.-
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Radja Serial Thriller
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Dessew Mafia Scum
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In post 276, Haschel Cedricson wrote:In post 273, Dessew wrote:Do you know what "particularly" means? Because I'm pretty sure you don't, & that's fine, because the topic here is not the quality of the English you are using, not even the quality of your posts, but wether gob is town or scum. So look it up in a dictionary & then adjust your read in the light of that.
My English is fine; the only problem here is you willfully failing to parse a simple sentence correct. As for my gob read, I asked him a question and he dodged it, so nothing changes there.
In post 81, Haschel Cedricson wrote:And by what metric are vijay's posts half-assed, particularly when compared to the posts of half the players in this game?
In post 82, gob wrote:I never said others posts were grade-A either, but i find the need to mention that Vijays in particular stood out to me as half-assed.
The Oxford Dictionary says:
particularly: adverb
1. To a higher degree than is usual or average
1.1. Used to single out a subject to which a statement is especially applicable
1.2. So as to give special emphasis to a point; specifically
Dessew wrote:I'm a lazy bum, so I'm not gonna check it now, but iirc, Hopkirk was the first one, to make an association between gob and me, not stoz. Secondly, he's lying in that post.
You recall incorrectly. Secondly, where is the lie?
Hopkirk mentioned an associative between me and "someone he scumreads" (gob is heavily implied) in 193, so stoz didn't offer anything new in his 208. For the lies, look at the segment of the same post where I answered stoz. Seriously, I need to open the dictionary for you, now I'm supposed to read posts for you, the next time you'll ask me to chew your food for you. :D-
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Dessew Mafia Scum
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In post 267, stoz wrote:
I'm one of those "Day 3" players, by then I should have a very accurate reads list, regardless of game size.
Don't we all wish we could get a free pass to Day 3 with tons of information from flips and night actions to go on. I find day 1 the hardest but not doing enough got me lynched day 1 in my last game (I was VT).[/quote]
Oh, Christ, this is an ongoing game. Please don't do this. I'll look at your finished newbie game, instead (the one you in which you were endgamed...)-
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Dessew Mafia Scum
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So, apparently, I've spent less than ten minutes with your iso from that newbie game. I'll do it properly later, I guess, I just really don't feel like it right now. I must add something: don't mention ongoing games, ever. If you really have to (it will never be that case, though), say only factual things, eg. this or that person posted on tuesday or w/e. I suppose stating the reason why you think you got lynched is a little too subjective, it might actually be a border-line case, though, so please read zor's post about the official stance on the issue, & judge it for yourself.-
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texcat Mafia Scum
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Oops. Sorry about needing the prod. Speaking of prods, what's up with St. Constantine. He's not posted anything but prodges since he replaced in.
The Acct/Gob argument is boring. I don't think Acct is fence-sitting. She did seem to downgrade her opinion of Gob rather quickly, but I expect townies to revise their reads as new information comes in.-
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Haschel Cedricson Mr. Know It All
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In post 287, Dessew wrote:
In post 81, Haschel Cedricson wrote:And by what metric are vijay's posts half-assed, particularly when compared to the posts of half the players in this game?
In post 82, gob wrote:I never said others posts were grade-A either, but i find the need to mention that Vijays in particular stood out to me as half-assed.
The Oxford Dictionary says:
particularly: adverb
1. To a higher degree than is usual or average
1.1. Used to single out a subject to which a statement is especially applicable
1.2. So as to give special emphasis to a point; specifically
HC: Why were vijay's posts half-assed?
gob: They were half-assed.'
Don't be willfully dense.
Dessew wrote:I'm a lazy bum, so I'm not gonna check it now, but iirc, Hopkirk was the first one, to make an association between gob and me, not stoz. Secondly, he's lying in that post.
You recall incorrectly. Secondly, where is the lie?
Hopkirk mentioned an associative between me and "someone he scumreads" (gob is heavily implied) in 193, so stoz didn't offer anything new in his 208. For the lies, look at the segment of the same post where I answered stoz. Seriously, I need to open the dictionary for you, now I'm supposed to read posts for you, the next time you'll ask me to chew your food for you.[/quote]
He did indeed offers something new because stoz was the first person to point out that the relationship went both directions. Also, I did read that segment of the post and I don't see you calling out any lies at all (my comments in blue):In post 225, Dessew wrote:
Example? I haven't seen you put anything new into the game. The only thing you mentioned the first time was a past experience of yours. You used it not to join a dead-on-arrival wagon.In post 208, stoz wrote:In post 182, Dessew wrote:stoz has virtually done nothing, which is fine by itself. The suspicious part is his tone. Example:
A meticulous piece of analysis of nothing with no real conclusion at the end. The time & energy he seems to devote to fence-sit is truly remarkable. The rest of his iso is better in the sense that he's more active, but he has just moved away from the total nihil, in the direction of one of the already established & discussed to death.In post 93, stoz wrote:At first I thought Trivium's question was quite good, because it would force scum to declare if they are going to be active or lurk when they have less information on the game.
Upon thinking about it some more I realised that if Trivium was scum it could be a great tool to use to help forward a lynch on someone town who gets busy in real life.
Overall I'm going to have to treat it as null.
I agree this wasn't my best post, but I haven't been fence sitting, I've been sharing my observations and opinions when able.
Opinions aren't inherently invalid just because somebody else also had them first, and stoz never claimed he was bringing things up for the first time. Not a lie.
Where? I called him town in 190, is that it?
I'm actually quite concerned with gob and Dessew defending each other. In #184 gob described Dessew as "my top town" when Dessew's contributions at that time were:
#79: "I wouldn't jump to conclusions regarding the alignments of [Haschel and Hopkirk]." and clarifies a mistake gob made.
#138: "First of all, let's not get carried away [with gobs list]"
#161: "Why [is VeeGee voting] Gob? Why not vijay?"
#182: "The time & energy [stoz] seems to devote to fence-sit is truly remarkable"
Almost everything has been about putting gob in a positive light.
Where indeed? If only stoz had cited specific posts where Dessew was doing that OH WAIT HE LITERALLY JUST DID:stoz wrote:#79: "I wouldn't jump to conclusions regarding the alignments of [Haschel and Hopkirk]." andclarifies a mistake gob made.
#138: "First of all, let's not get carried away[with gobs list]"
#161:"Why [is VeeGee voting] Gob?Why not vijay?"
#182: "The time & energy [stoz] seems to devote to fence-sit is truly remarkable"
Please, let's not adopt the habit of taking rhetoric questions. Do you think that or not?If I had been voting or expressing suspicion of gob I really would believe Dessew was the gob defence force, so Dessew's vote on me is the only part that doesn't stack up. Perhaps Dessew is looking to start a counter-wagon that won't look like OMGUS?
Again, this is not a lie, nor is it you pointing out a lie.
[/quote]
Do I think scum would put pressure on their buddy at the start of the game and then look for a reason to leave? Sure. Also, you haven't moved your vote from him but you also haven't been trying very hard to convince other people to join you.In post 285, Accountant wrote:This comes across as "I am willing to bus you, but I don't want to."
According to post #253, I'm the first to vote VeeGee, and I haven't taken my vote off since even though other lynch candidates(such as Dessew or gob, or even stoz) have been pointed out. Do you think a mafia would bus their buddy that far on Day 1.
At first this appears like a good point, but it ignores one important scenario: rolefishing.Accountant wrote:
I was giving my best read on gob at that time. Perhaps you can't see any town motivation for that, but scum wouldn't have any reason to do so either(if I was scum and suspected gob was a powerful role, all I have to do is wait for night and go "pst! let's NK gob!".
Accountant wrote:"power role" referring to a powerful role, not a role with a night ability. Cop is an example of a power role; something like Deputy isn't.
Is this standard terminology on those other forums you mentioned? gob, can you confirm/deny?
If you're worried that other people think you are fence-sitting, then you make sure that your stance is posted unequivocally and move on. There's no reason to test the waters to see if you need to "correct your behavior".Accountant wrote:I wanted feedback about whether gob's accusation of me fence-sitting had any substance, because if it was and people told me I was indeed engaged in fencesitting, that would be a sign to correct my behavior. Same with the reads; if 5 people had responded to that post with "I think you're filthy scum", that would be a sign that I was doing something wrong, especially since this is my first game on MafiaScum(I played in a newbie, but had to be replaced after 3 posts).-
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Klingoncelt Jack of All Trades
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gob he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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Accountant Jack of All Trades
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Do I think scum would put pressure on their buddy at the start of the game and then look for a reason to leave? Sure. Also, you haven't moved your vote from him but you also haven't been trying very hard to convince other people to join you.
I've received many reasons to leave the VeeGee lynch, including the presence of more popular targets like Dessew or gob. If I wanted to look for a cheap excuse to shift my vote off, I've had a few chances to do so already. As for VeeGee himself, he's V/LA, so I can't really put pressure on him until he comes back.
At first this appears like a good point, but it ignores one important scenario: rolefishing.
How does this help scum!Accountant gain a better lock on gob's real role?
Is this standard terminology on those other forums you mentioned? gob, can you confirm/deny?
It is standard terminology on the Town of Salem forums. This is due to the way their role lists are formatted, which gives categories of roles instead of exact roles; when "power role" is said, it can mean "role that falls under the category Town Power", which usually means the strong, town leading roles.
In FM 7C, I claimed power role day 1, and people still thought I was claiming town power all the way until the start of D2. There isn't really a consensus on the actual meaning of the term "power role" on those forums, with most situations depending on context to figure out. In this case, I feel that gob's actions could be that of a strong, powerful town role acting weirdly to discourage mafia from targeting him.
If you're worried that other people think you are fence-sitting, then you make sure that your stance is posted unequivocally and move on. There's no reason to test the waters to see if you need to "correct your behavior".
That's what I thought I did, but then gob said I was fence-sitting, which made me wonder if I actually was.-
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St Constantine the Hermit Mafia Scum
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Towns of Salem? Lol.ShowAye, let old constantine spin ye a tale...
Book of Constantine (Protestant) 214: 112 - God hates you
Book of Constantine (Catholic) 214:112 - God doesn't like you
Book of Constantine (Orthodox) 214:112 - God tolerates you-
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Accountant Jack of All Trades
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Radja Serial Thriller
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Lame joke Bump
A guy walks into a bar and sees 3 pieces of meat hanging from the ceiling. The guy asks, "What's this about?"
The bartender replies, "Well, if you can jump up and slap the meat, you get free drinks for the rest of the night. If you miss, you pay for everyone's drinks for the next hour. You wanna do it?"
The guy replies, "Nah, the steaks are too high."-
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Radja Serial Thriller
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