Blitz 1: C9++ (GAME OVER!)

[Titus]

Hey. First blitz post totally appropriate for Titus.

VOTE: OceanWind

Hi noob.

[Titus]

Let's get this whole wagon thing on me out of the way. We should popcorn vt or PR. Then popcorn letters.

I'll go first. V.

I'm speedy Gonzalez posting. Yeehaw.

[Titus]

:-p

[Titus]

In all legitness, PR. Popcorn Blocky.

[Titus]

Omgussing RVS. :-p fear of being caught. Oh well. You'll die. Hate to see it happen to noons.

[Titus]

We're not a hydra Vedith.

P.S. Blocky lurking has been noted.

[Titus]

Let's get this whole wagon thing on me out of the way. We should popcorn vt or PR. Then popcorn letters.

I'll go first. V.

I'm speedy Gonzalez posting. Yeehaw.

Why?
Scum will lie or get info.

We confirm the possible setups making kills hard for scums. This is an open setup. Popcorn massclaim is ideal. Plus we get thoughts fast. Slow game wait, fast game immediately.

[Titus]

We're not a hydra Vedith.

Who isn't?

Me and FB.

[Titus]

Me and FB.

Should you be?

Dunno but you spelled Titus wrong.

[Titus]

Ok. blocky is confscum though not fire although fire can be his buddy

[Titus]

Blocky ocean fire gg no re

[Titus]

VOTE: Blocky

Let's flash wagon Blocky in a blitz. Lol.

[Titus]

Let's get this whole wagon thing on me out of the way. We should popcorn vt or PR. Then popcorn letters.

I'll go first. V.

I'm speedy Gonzalez posting. Yeehaw.

Why?
Scum will lie or get info.

We confirm the possible setups making kills hard for scums. This is an open setup. Popcorn massclaim is ideal. Plus we get thoughts fast. Slow game wait, fast game immediately.

Why are you lying?

Vote: Titus

Lol. Not lying.

[Titus]

What do you disagree with?

[Titus]

Let's get this whole wagon thing on me out of the way. We should popcorn vt or PR. Then popcorn letters.

I'll go first. V.

I'm speedy Gonzalez posting. Yeehaw.

Why?
Scum will lie or get info.

We confirm the possible setups making kills hard for scums. This is an open setup. Popcorn massclaim is ideal. Plus we get thoughts fast. Slow game wait, fast game immediately.

Why are you lying?

Vote: Titus

Lol. Not lying.

How does any of the following make kill choices hard for scum?

Setup

1 Cop , 1 Doctor , 2 Mafia Goons , 3 Townies ;
1 Cop , 2 Mafia Goons , 4 Townie
1 Doctor , 2 Mafia Goons , 4 Townie
2 Mafia Goons , 5 Townie

You're forgetting the fact scum have to fake claim. When they kill people, it becomes obvious as to what they are.

Plus this is a thirteen player game. You're using the wrong setup.

[Titus]

Give me a hypo and I will prove it but spoiler it.

[Titus]

Titus what the fuck are you doing

Becoming Charlie Sheen and #winning.

[Titus]

Titus it may pay for you to rethink everything. Mass claiming day one is a big no no.

Usually you're right. Open setup. Fast deadlines. Hard to fake claim. Hard to kill BC choice must be made in 24 hours. Mass claim good in this situation.

[Titus]

Also one flaw is the set up may have an sk

Not a flaw. An additional kpn makes it harder on scum to fake claim.

[Titus]

Also one flaw is the set up may have an sk

Not a flaw. An additional kpn makes it harder on scum to fake claim.

Looks like scum will know there is an sk and just relay on them for kills

Lol...yeah scum have to rely on an Sk that might not exist and could kill them.

[Titus]

Yes. Serious time to get through, means act early. Serious time late isn't happening as a blitz game.

[Titus]

Titus is town for the people voting her, just saying.

ETL is a null vote.

[Titus]

Titus is conf bad town.
Name one time she caught scum day 1.

NAME ONE!

I caught scum on post 29 before.

[Titus]

Reading context fail or scum.

[Titus]

No. I didn't. I am terrible with jokes.

[Titus]

@FB, Do you seriously think I have never caught scum D1. I did once. They just were not lynched.

[Titus]

Marge do you know what popcorn massclaim is?

[Titus]

Marge do you know what popcorn massclaim is?

Yes.
Are we doing that?
If so I want firebringer to claim next

Blocky's up. That was part of my theory. Blocky should claim PR or VT then popcorn.

[Titus]

Can someone explain to me why, in a massclaim, scum won't just claim VT, and then they'll have PRs to target?

All the PRs would protect each other and be conftown thus dictating every night kill for the rest of the game. That also ignores the fact that power is likely diffused.

Not claiming PR also reveals the setup.

They cannot figure it out.

[Titus]

All the PRs would protect each other

How does that work?

Any protective PR would target a PR claimer.

[Titus]

So uhhh Titus do you know how the dice rolled to know we have preotectives or something

*pleads the fifth until mass claim ends*

[Titus]

Any protective PR would target a PR claimer.

If we have investigatives, then some of the protectors won't be protected.

Everyone plays a protective differently. Scum would still face hard choices. Their lynch pool has the PRs removed (due to setup townfirming them) and they cannot kill vocal townes.

This is before scum know if there's an sk so they have to decide what to do.

[Titus]

I plead the 4th.
Which isn't something you plead, but I don't want to be searched yo.

You can totally plead the fourth. That's called mod error.

Was there mod error in the fact you got a scum PM?

[Titus]

Vote:Titus

You clearly deserve a vote for this bizarre idea.

I am the queen of the bizzare.

[Titus]

Blocky says the only other two players with votes at the time are scum. I'd love to know why he thought so.

Not sure if I missed something or not, but where did he say this? In your Mafia QT?

Oh my fuck if marge flips scum the whole team may have just been called

Marge Blocky Ythan. I'm ok with that. Blocky first.

[Titus]

I'm terrible with pronouns. Walk me through it.

[Titus]

Marge Blocky Ythan.

I think he was saying Marge Blocky Kraeg.

Ythan would have to be scum given he sees the comment right?

[Titus]

Personally, I think ranger has been buddying a lot, and I do feel like Marge, Ranger, and Titus are likely scum. In the meantime I claim VT.

Popcorn to Ranger then?

[Titus]

Blocky says the only other two players with votes at the time are scum. I'd love to know why he thought so.

Not sure if I missed something or not, but where did he say this? In your Mafia QT?

Literally look at the two posts where he says they're scum and then at the votecount at the time.

?? So that would mean Blocky scum slipped Marge was town? Still not understanding here?

[Titus]

Blocky, editing wikis is not anonymous. So you think I am annoying. Best to put that out there.

[Titus]

Titus it may pay for you to rethink everything. Mass claiming day one is a big no no.

Usually you're right. Open setup. Fast deadlines. Hard to fake claim. Hard to kill BC choice must be made in 24 hours. Mass claim good in this situation.

It is not good, whilst yes I have thought about it, I still think the negatives overrule the positives. We roleclaim further down the line when numbers tell us so, but not day one. Scum won't have a hard choice if they see what roles are out there. Are you proposing scum kill the PR's whilst we lynch the VT's?

I suppose we lynch scum post claim whether they say PR or not.

[Titus]

Alright, for the time being, I need to get back to work. I will probably be checking in throughout the day but once I go home, I'm offline until tomorrow.

I would like to hang Persivul today.

Do you think Blocky is town?

[Titus]

I really have no idea how people are sheeping a massclaim idea without a good study of the setup

I have played it many times hydra and solo. Scum claiming before SK reveal or elimination hurts them.

@ETL, what'd I miss. Totally willing to theory chime.

[Titus]

Totally willing to theory chime.

I just wanted someone to go over the setup with me as I've never played it and the wiki entry is overwhelming.

Spoiler: Massive Theory

Well this will help me explain why massclaim is good so win win.

At the start of the game, the mod rolls 7 percentage dies. These correspond to the various PRs in the game and VTs.

1-50 = T (Townie)
51-65 = C (Cop)
66-75 = D (Doctor)
76-85 = V (Vigilante)
86-95 = M (Mason)
96-100 = B (Blocker)

The number of Ts directly influences how many scum are in the game. There is only one group scum and 50/50 odds of a serial killer.

Each role necessitates how many letters are in the setup. For instance, masons require at least 2 Ms. A full cop requires two Cs. We can eliminate any setup with one or thee Ms as the mod did not confirm an innocent child at the start of the day.

By structuring a mass claim day 1, we can either confirm all the PRs as town or force scum into some hard kill situations, particularly if we don't know about an SK. Neither do scum.

First PR or VT.
If we get a too many letters scenario (eight PRs), we know there must be scum in the PRs pool).
Then we go to number of letters. Full cops would claim dual letters, same with a one shot doctor (as a one shot doctor cannot exist without a full doctor).
Then, we claim the actual letters. Anyone dual letter claiming without a letter underneath is autoscum.

We also know the setup within a handful of possibilities, dependent on actual claims.

[Titus]

@Persivul, Their night kills would be dictated most of the game. Please don't ask me to repeat myself again. This is the second time that's been asked by you.

@Ythan, Yes and there are certain claims scum would be dumb to make, so we'll see.

@ETL yes. That's how any massclaim should go. Scum can't see who they are ccing until they are stuck.

[Titus]

Problem is Ranger's up and he has zero interest in compliance.

[Titus]

@Ythan, Yes and there are certain claims scum would be dumb to make, so we'll see.

We really won't because a massclaim isn't happening.

Why? You and I both know that it will be easier for them to h
make fake claims if they know about the presence or absence of SK. So why do you want to help them?

[Titus]

In most games yes. In this game, nope. Not if done correctly.

You can yell at me, or you can answer the question.

Also offended at the use of retarded but that's my personal hangup.

[Titus]

Why?

Again, you just seem to be contrary just because you can.

[Titus]

This game needs more bullets.

If you're against massclaim, why did you sign up Ythan. It happens in almost every run of this setup. It's like hating masons but playing Friends and Enemies.

[Titus]

You mean it being the optimal action isn't good enough? *scratches head* ok you get more excuses to make colored posts.

[Titus]

I just did in my theory post to ETL and multiple times in thread.

The scum letters will not match somehow. Forcing piecemeal mass claim prevents scum from picking this person or that person to CC later.

[Titus]

Usually you're right. Open setup. Fast deadlines. Hard to fake claim. Hard to kill BC choice must be made in 24 hours. Mass claim good in this situation.

This is beautiful juxtaposed with the argument of d1 c9++ massclaim being standard.

Context is massclaim D1.

Persivul or Blocky. Pick one to be scum.

[Titus]

Persivul or Blocky. Pick one to be scum.

Either.

Who is scummier?

[Titus]

Worst case scenario, obvtown pushing scum would be left alive.

For fucks sake, I guided you through The Dating Game can't you see I actually know what I am doing?

[Titus]

Can't tell if you are dumb or scum...

[Titus]

@ETL, If I helped Percival into his grave, would you help me lynch Blocky? The same people objecting to both our desired lynch targets are also objecting to the massclaim so...

[Titus]

You mean his stalling, not providing substantive comments, or the amount of resistance isn't enough?

[Titus]

Spoiler: Blocky ISO

2nd blist post by a player. VOTE: Titus for stealing first.

I mean blitz lol

Hey. First blitz post totally appropriate for Titus.

VOTE: OceanWind

Hi noob.

WHY YOU NINJA ME
and first quote lol im awesome

Sorry, I was offline. I have read up.

Naw, I was watching football games. Anyway RVS has pretty much ended UNVOTE: Titus

Yeah, and two people already RVS'ed me.

GG NO RE

Am I allow to go offline to watch football games? VOTE: Titus Titus has gotten awfully scummy.

PEDIT: I dont think Titus is town.

Personally, I think ranger has been buddying a lot, and I do feel like Marge, Ranger, and Titus are likely scum. In the meantime I claim VT.

Marge, your acting a little weird there.

Marge still has an RVS vote on me.

PEDIT: I don't know, he has been buddying people, and I read buddying as scummy.

PEDIT 2: Pretty much the same reasons everyone else has.

Titus was saying I "lurked" And was voting me because I want offline for 3 hours to watch football games. He called me out for lurking after 15 minutes.
Also the massclaim seemed like scum trying to find power roles.

PEDIT FLUBBER: Im at L-1, and I would like someone else to vote Ranger before I vote him.

Cause I went offline to watch football and Titus started a bandwagon claiming i was lurking

You want hand holding. Ok?

5-7 RVS. Vanishes "to watch football" at the first sign of pressure.

57-59 he's read up and removes his RVS vote, implying he thinks I'm town. (If he thought otherwise, he'd defend his RVS vote).

62-66, Trolling and RVS. No real reads despite having read.

143, jumps me as his counter wagon and objects to my push. He says nothing about the massclaim or any substantive discussion (which is my true gripe he strawmans).

194, Spurious empty "buddying" accusation against Ranger plus me and marge are his other scumreads. He never supports this or does anything to solve anyone's alignment.

196, Vague weird assertion.

200, Whines about Marge's vote. Doesn't explain his Ranger scumread. Agrees with everyone else.

209-212, Protect me from the big bad Titus.

There's zero scumhunting here. No questions. No attempts to persuade people. He's afraid to take any sort of risk on his scumreads. He's stalled any sort of engagement.

[Titus]

My offer stands. You help me with Blocky, I help you with Persival.

[Titus]

There's nothing in his ISO to analyze. That's my point. Your response is nothing more than a ginormous handwave with a lot of words. Typing out a response isn't scumhunting.

I have made conclusions. Blocky has done nothing but lurk and avoid the thread. I went through his entire ISO showing the point. Blocky merely not being present isn't sufficient. His dodging of providing any substance.

I went through his entire ISO to prove the point. Why are you town reading him?

Was me.

[Titus]

That's really really bad... why would you vote for a wagon you think is bad? I don't understand.

Because it's hilarious to watch you now say it's bad.

So, are you scum white knighting? Or do you agree that it makes sense for town to point out when they think an L-1 wagon is bad?

Like this post by Persivul. Your window is closing ETL.

[Titus]

Your argument seems overly nitpicky. If you hate Persivul's (the people on the wagon are scummy) why not have him talk more? Sure I think Persivul is being an idiot ATM but not a scummy one.

His turn on you is good as well.

[Titus]

Still think we should vote Blocky and I like Persivul's vote. If we lynch Blocky, I will reflect on it though.

[Titus]

ETL, This is pretty much what you said about TheAmateur right? In the Street Racers where we were both town?

[Titus]

You mean his stalling, not providing substantive comments, or the amount of resistance isn't enough?

So two noob tells and wagon logic from two week game phaswa

Maybe you are scum

Phaswa?

Noob isn't alignment indicative. If I scumread suboptimal, no one would have a townread.

[Titus]

You mean his stalling, not providing substantive comments, or the amount of resistance isn't enough?

So two noob tells and wagon logic from two week game phaswa

Maybe you are scum

Phaswa?

Noob isn't alignment indicative. If I scumread suboptimal, no one would have a townread.

i meant phases

Still not following your post.

[Titus]

@Ocean, you opened with a wall recycling my exact thoughts but state to do so on D2 or D3 when scum know if there is an SK or not. Boooo

You do a lot of tearing down and promoting focus on having people fight regarding their Persivul reads.

You say nothing about Marge (vig target numero uno). Why? What's your read there?

[Titus]

@500- Scum would on day 2. I am presuming any vigs that shoot would claim D2. Then scum can count the number of kills and get a good idea of whether or not there is an SK. Thus by Day 2, scum would know if there is an SK. It's best to force scum to claim with as little info as possible.

The blocky wagon is likely all town. It should stay. The amount of Defense blocky's slot gets while doing nothing is astounding.

@All, I do like the reasons on Kop. Big shock they are the same reasons Blocky is wagoned though.

[Titus]

What does Titus think about ocean?

I'm going to start here.

VOTE: Ocean

Help me with Blocky and I will help you with Ocean. In a very straightforward way.

[Titus]

Since when do you bargain Titus? I'm liking you less and less.

When's the last time you played with me? Also, why didn't you raise this point when I offered to you.

Also I am not bargaining on my reads. I got one vote and I cannot double vote.

[Titus]

Titus - the bargaining with me was weird, but I took it as a reach out, until you did it to ProHawk, at which point it occurred to me that it didn't matter who you bargained with/for, as long as you got your lynch in the end. It was the second instance of the action that made it suspicious.

Notice how my offer to you was revoked when I began town reading Persivul. It is a minor reach out, but mostly I want my scumreads dead. Game is stalling.

[Titus]

Lol. Why didn't you highlight that I asked ProHawk to lynch himself? Lol. Reading fail.

[Titus]

Anyone who has played a fair amount of games with Titus knows how she interacts with buddies.

Please enlighten me,

How does Titus interact with her teammates?

You know this answer.

[Titus]

Ok double reading fails on me this morning. Better reread this real life day.

[Titus]

UNVOTE: ProHawk

While I do.

[Titus]

Ocean + Marge? Thoughts?

[Titus]

I have not. What is it about the thread that would make me unvote you?

I don't care about you unvoting me. I really need more content from you as you are at L-2 and there's a good chance you're getting lynched today. If you are town, help us read you.

Anyone else see Ocean really fence shitting on Blocky/ProHawk?

He's all Blocky can be scum, wait on replacement.

ProHawk's probably getting lynched, setting up a blame the victim scenario.

He doesn't vote ProHawk yet doesn't defend him either. Right in the middle.

[Titus]

Titus do you have something of a tiered reads list that I could see?

Town
Ranger
Firebringer
Flubbernugget
Persivul

Weak town
ETL
Ythan

Null
Blocky/ProHawk (differing reads based on who was posting)
Vedith (poor engagement is a sign of Vedith scum since LoTH II), difficult to filter for blitz though

Weak scum
Kraeg, not saying much and what he's said doesn't give me good feelings

Lean scum
Ocean, awkward posting around Blocky and Marge. Two pinged twice
Marge, Covered ad nauseum

Not ranked in categories

[Titus]

@Marge, Reads please?

[Titus]

@Ocean, Yup. I'm bargaining acts, not reads. Don't confuse the two.

Nothing's unclear about your posting. It's fenceshitting.

I never read on subbing in, so that doesn't bother me. The reach out by ProHawk looks townie. He's transparently scumhunting IMO. I don't see how anyone could not like PH's recent posting aside from him admittedly not reading and even then it's play style. It leaves me where I must consider Blocky was just refusing to play.

@FB, Yup. Town reading you for your opening. Don't think scumbringer asks that question either.

[Titus]

@Oceanwind, I am not sure if you're serious with half the stuff that comes out of your mouth. You ask if I "ever had a null read before" despite me just posting a read wall in 603, with actual null reads.

You're blatantly dismissive of ProHawk's scumhunting in his ISO, yet refusing to state a scumread on him. You're defending someone you feel is not scumhunting from a lynch and making no effort to sort them whatsoever. It's not a "nullread". Your position is logically incoherent. You make zero effort to resolve this.

VOTE: Oceanwind

[Titus]

@Ocean, talking out of both sides of your mouth is bad.

@Marge, Vote him then. I want him to take a position on you.

[Titus]

@Ocean who are you town reading?

[Titus]

The first question is a misrep which I explained already. Your ProHawk read makes no sense. I'm scumreading you because your ProHawk read is ridiculous and makes no sense.

I am sorting PH. No need to wait.

[Titus]

I am finding you talking out of both sides of your mouth scummy. Halting a lynch on someone you aren't town reading is scummy to me.

Fence shitting is not a buzzword. It's a word I made up. It describes a player that's arguing for inconsistent positions.

The fact you don't want to be pinned down on townreads is also scummy.

[Titus]

You two can bicker or we can lynch Ocean.

[Titus]

@Titus

, you're losing me. Who's lynch did I halt? Are we talking about Persivul or Prohawk?

What inconsistent positions have I argued?

Saying my lack of townreads is scummy is silly. Scum have every reason to townread/buddy/whiteknight players. Reads can change. Having a townread doesn't "pin" a player to that read.

Already answered this.

ProHawk aka Blocky.

If you wouldn't feel pinned, then you would have no qualms having a few townreads. You want to be open to vote anyone right now.

[Titus]

I don't really care. This game is majority numbskulls so.. what the fuck ever. Probably should have vetted the playerlist beforehand or /outted my pre-in.

Fuck it.

Can you stop with this elitist shit? Just because I don't agree with you doesn't make me scum or stupid. Remember the Amateur? Street Racers? You chided me there I was right.

[Titus]

The more I think of it, the more I don't want to trust people who claimed VT. I mean, if you're really a VT, it doesn't make sense for you to roleclaim, especially when everyone else never agreed for a massclaim and especially when it is D1. Claiming as VT when there isn't a mass claim to begin with just makes it easy for the scum to find the power roles.

unvote

Vote: Marge

And the fact that Blocky was replaced clearly means that he's just simply inactive. The lack of substance in his posts that others are pointing at just simply means that he just doesn't have a lot of time to play, and was already having difficulties in playing this game. Those who jumped on him was clearly being opportunistic, and I bet there's at least one scum in that wagon.

I like this post. Think Ocean is scumier but ok with a Marge wagon.

[Titus]

It has nothing to do with elitist shit. It has to do with basic concepts of scumhunting and what is and isn't scummy. I see people throwing around so much bullshit I seriously have no idea who is actually scum or just an idiot who has no idea how to catch scum.

I literally do not give a flying fuck, Titus. I was a replacement to that game and didn't read it. You're going to compare it to a game I started in? Very different scene and you know it. You also know exactly what level of skill I'm at, so I don't really need to be elitist.

You must be recalling the street racers where I was scum. I was referring to the street racers where I caught scum within 30 posts and you went through trying to convince me scum was town. We both started in it as I recall.

We all scumhunt differently. We all process differently. Tbh, I don't get Firebringer but I respect him as a player and can see his game. Same for Farside (although I am not sure if she's town here).
Think I am scum, fine. Calling names isn't.

[Titus]

P.S. FB you are not subtle with something you did. Towards the end of the day phase, divide and conquer. Follow my meaning?

Join me on Ocean?

@Marge, that "claim" was ambiguous, deliberately.

[Titus]

@FB, That would be really anti-town to answer.

[Titus]

P.S. FB you are not subtle with something you did. Towards the end of the day phase, divide and conquer. Follow my meaning?

Join me on Ocean?

@Marge, that "claim" was ambiguous, deliberately.

You still claimed when no one agrees.
Ambiguous or not

Yup. Because it was my plan.

[Titus]

@FB, That would be really anti-town to answer.

ummmmmmm okay.

You being mysterious is giving me weird vibes Titus.

You left obvious crumb. There.

[Titus]

You left obvious crumb. There.

Ummm Titus....I don't crumb.

lolol

Oh, well that makes me feel better.

Donut = cop. Lol.

[Titus]

This is the survivor Marge. I like her better.

[Titus]

@Marge

Your thoughts on Ocean please?

[Titus]

@Marge

Your thoughts on Ocean please?

Noob

You squeeze him hard enough and he'll just keep babbling alone.
That said I'm leaning town on the guy.
Why you are you only pushing at the newbs in the game?

Cuz they have scum PMs. Maybe ETL.

I had pushed you earlier.

[Titus]

It's certainly a good enough townslip for the day.

I don't think it's a townslip as any scumfuck would know they had a PT most likely.

[Titus]

Hahaha. TOLD you guys. The scumteam really wants me gone.

Also, when Flubber returns, he's going to ignore my questions and vote me as well. Just watch.

Wifom. Table of one.

[Titus]

Nah. I caught you.

This a shame you don't have a mislynch due to so many obvious town. The push on flubber was bad. Your avoidance on taking positions is bad. The only reason you haven't been turbo lynched are ate and I'm pushing you.

[Titus]

How have I avoided taking positions? I have scumreads on you, Flubber, Ranger, and Kop. Oh, wait my "lack of positions" comes down to the fact that I have a nullread on Prohawk who hasn't posted anything at all?

Once you find out that I'm town, who's lynch are you going to bully through next?

Nah, I'd go on a homicidal rampage if you're town. I'd most likely do that anyway.

Kop is the only one there that has any chance of being scum. The rest are obvious town and your "reasons" show someone who just lashes out.

[Titus]

You two can definitely be not group scum. The interpretation is wrong, but I did everything said and you don't know I am town. So you'd be dumb not to consider it.

[Titus]

Anyway, I am out for an hour or two. Need to setup my game.

[Titus]

You two can definitely be not group scum. The interpretation is wrong, but I did everything said

Like choose BP over investigation immunity? Is that a slip?

and you don't know I am town. So you'd be dumb not to consider it.

The vig crumbs were apparent. Those could benefit either a vig or an SK making a vig fakeclaim, so I didn't mention those at the time.

Outing the possible cop crumb doesn't benefit a vig. It could benefit a SK. Have scum do your dirty work for you. If you're concerned there's a doc, you also target cop, as doc only stops one kill.

In hindsight, your push for a massclaim without being able to convey the town benefits makes perfect sense. If there's a real vig, your plan won't work, so you need to know.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Titus

I meant the vig crumbs and the highlighting I thought FB was crumbing so he'd tone it down.

I'd never take BP though if I was SK. Check Titus n1 is de facto rule one in 99.9% of games. I'm suspicious if a cop doesn't check me N1. I considered the "BP" thing as speculation. SKs select the BP/Investigation immune pregame. I couldn't take BP planning on crumbs. Doubly so considering I suck with crumbs.

If there's another vig claimer, they should claim solely because my existence either townfirms them universally or pits us in a very likely one v one.

I guess I need to take a dose of my own medicine.

[Titus]

Said 1 v 1 would be resolved with bullets.

[Titus]

Said 1 v 1 would be resolved with bullets.

No, it would be resolved with rope.

Further, it's not really a 1v1 situation, because the setup allows for more than one vig. You know that. There's also a 48% chance that there's no vig at all. So, CCs (or lack thereof) don't mean much in this setup.

No. I'm confirmed town if there's a full vig and no other 1-shot vig as a one shot vig is required to have a full vig.

A 1 shot vig happening twice requires a full vig as well.

So if someone CCs me, we just shoot each other.

Hence, any other one shot vig should claim.

There's plenty other scenarios like this. Hence why claiming is good. Of course, I just laid that out so

[Titus]

Scratch that last part...

I'm not conftown if a vig claims. Derp. Got my lines backwards.

Resolving Vig CCs with bullets would tell us a lot if we had massclaimed and thus prevent the very scenario you describe.

[Titus]

Is Titus claiming vig or this just more theory stuff?

Explicit.

My bargains were just going to be vig shots.

[Titus]

@Margeside:

I think I'll have more fun in the dead thread seeing persivul try to make up a new scum read, since he hasn't really said anything about any other scum reads.

In 527 I started a case on Kop and nothing's happened to reduce my suspicion there. But:

- I'm more suspicious of you
- There's just a little more than a day left in phase, you have a wagon, and Kop doesn't

This is the time to see if your wagon is viable, not the time to try to start a new one from scratch.

Well bussing on day 1 is bad form for scum.
You push it day 2 and goal for town points then start lurking.

I'm just having fun ruining any plans you have for playing scum this game.

In the mean time your whole case is based on something you did as town and called it scummy.

Still can't believe anyone is town reading that reasoning.

Walk me through your Persivul scum reasoning step by step please.

[Titus]

I'm not the SK, but I'd always give you a high five for the grief we've put each other through.

[Titus]

More happy to lynch Titus now.

Gotta protect Ocean I see.

[Titus]

Wrong.

CCs are both very mathmatically unlikely to both be town.

There's a 10 percent chance of a V in any particular spot. To get three Vs would require a lot of sheer coincidence but I'd say it's less than 5% of both telling the truth. So we'd just shoot each other. If one lived, they were confscum.

[Titus]

I encountered this setup in Open 512 which led to catching Varsoon scum. (The label was different JK9 I believe) but he and Saki CCed each other.

[Titus]

Let's consider also that vigs can be a net detriment to town. So:

If you think Titus is scum, you should vote her.
If you think Titus is SK, you should vote her.
If you think Titus is vig and don't trust her with the gun, you should vote her.

The only reason NOT to vote Titus is if you believe she's SK, AND trust her judgment on who to shoot each night.

You can be scum now. That's not protown reasoning.

1) Obvious
2) Obvious
3) Wrong. By flipping people we get a lot of information, and I've been pretty explicit about being a one shot anyway. This is definitely reflexive shit and making stuff up.

[Titus]

So why did you point out the cop crumb?

Because it was obvious. At first I wanted to make sure we didn't target the same person. When FB said he wasn't crumbing, there was zero harm in stating it.

[Titus]

Hence the "divide and conquer"

[Titus]

Wow, either all the scum are against me or I am in a game with people who don't do math. Just like Open 512.

[Titus]

Wow, either all the scum are against me or I am in a game with people who don't do math. Just like Open 512.

Mhm. You're so special and amazing that everyone voting for you must be scum. lol

You realize there's an OR after that right?

VCA and setup crack is what I do.

Insulting Titus when right is what you do.

[Titus]

Because it was obvious.

I missed it at first.

At first I wanted to make sure

we

didn't target the same person.

Did you just admit that you were helping scum find a target?

When FB said he wasn't crumbing, there was zero harm in stating it.

He only needed to say it because you had already stated that he made an obvious crumb. The damage had already been done. People crumb PRs. Scum want to kill PRs, so they would have looked back and found it.

We would be me and FB. Shooting FB's cop target makes it worthless.

Scum would have seen it anyway. Any American poster would have come to that conclusion.

[Titus]

It could be a crumb, or it could be the fact that he loves dougnuts, and as no relevance to the game?

Sure could, but that's not the point. The point is that Titus THOUGHT it was a crumb, and stated openly that she had seen him crumb. In her mind, she was helping scum find a target.

Or gasp, I was trying to have FB be more subtle.

[Titus]

Because it was obvious.

I missed it at first.

At first I wanted to make sure

we

didn't target the same person.

Did you just admit that you were helping scum find a target?

When FB said he wasn't crumbing, there was zero harm in stating it.

He only needed to say it because you had already stated that he made an obvious crumb. The damage had already been done. People crumb PRs. Scum want to kill PRs, so they would have looked back and found it.

I had to look back to see it. When Titus mentioned it, have I missed something.

Titus, who are you proposing to shoot, if you are decided to be kept alive?

Right now Ocean.

My shot would go to my scumread with the most votes not lynched.

[Titus]

Vote Count #1.16:

OceanWind:

ProHawk, Titus, Firebringer, Flubbernugget (4)

Titus:

OceanWind, EspeciallyTheLies, Persivul (3)

Marge:

Ythan, Kraeg (2)

ProHawk:

Vonflare, Ranger (2)

Persivul:

Kop, Marge (2)

Not Voting:

None.

With 13 people alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

V/LA:

None.

Deadline:

(expired on 2015-11-05 12:37:00)

Here it would be Percivul if Ocean lynched. Got townreads on the others.

[Titus]

We would be me and FB. Shooting FB's cop target makes it worthless.

Scum would have seen it anyway. Any American poster would have come to that conclusion.

Outing FB and getting him killed makes his investigation worthless, and gives you no more information regarding who he's going to investigate anyway.

If you were vig and saw that crumb, you would have kept it to yourself and watched FB to see who he was questioning, and try to determine from that what players he might investigate.

I can't read FB's future actions for shit. Being explicit helps both.

[Titus]

It could be a crumb, or it could be the fact that he loves dougnuts, and as no relevance to the game?

Sure could, but that's not the point. The point is that Titus THOUGHT it was a crumb, and stated openly that she had seen him crumb. In her mind, she was helping scum find a target.

Or gasp, I was trying to have FB be more subtle.

So you tried to get him to crumb more subtly by

blatantly telling everyone he had made an obvious crumb

. That's idiotic, and you're not an idiot.

Well I can't PM FB and tell him he's obvious. That would be cheating.

[Titus]

I can't read FB's future actions for shit. Being explicit helps both.

Outing him as a PR

helps him die.

Not if there's a doctor.

[Titus]

Where is everyone from? How old are you?

You first.

Grand Rapids, MI via New York City. I'm 30.

Can via OH via IN via England/NY (one summer) via AR via TX. I'm almost 30. Your point?

[Titus]

@ETL, Can I have a tiered readslist from you?

[Titus]

@ETL, Can I have a tiered readslist from you?

I already posted it, though it's out of date now and I've changed my mind on most everyone.

Ocean's town though, you are wrong there. Know how I know?

There's a post in his ISO where he's all indignant "WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO SAY WHEN YOU FIND OUT I'M TOWN ARGH" and it came out very genuine imo.

Scum do the same thing. I've done it myself as scum.

[Titus]

wait are we in RQS 22 hours before deadline?

No. ETL is being wierddiverting attention from the fact I caught Ocean scum.

[Titus]

titus why did you claim pr

Because having all claims in the setup on D1 is better as scum cannot spin a narrative around SK or not as they would claim before knowledge. We'd have a finite number of setup possibilities.

Once SK is confirmed or denied, scum would be trapped.

Plus m ability either a) works as a second lynch or b) is trackable.

It also draws scums to me if I actually suspect them out of self preservation as vig CCs are best resolved by bullets in this setup.

[Titus]

C9++

Ding ding ding

[Titus]

titus are you a serial killer

No. One shot vig.

[Titus]

Because I was told my crumbs were obvious and I'm just a one shot vig.

@ETL, Your reads are trash. Like inverse of any sane town.

[Titus]

@Vonflare, Both. Pers and Marge were casing me as SK based on my vig crumbs being too obvious.

Look at my ISO next to his and Flubbers. His derails wagons without calling the poster town (Blocky/ProHawk). He has zero interactions with Marge. He flails when caught and tries to paint himself as a victim. His reads are largely OMGUS but for a shit read on Ranger. He doesn't want to have townreads.

@ETL, Confirming that you're probably dumb town who can't stand to be proven wrong by people who lack basic scumhunting skills according to you. Basically all your scumreads are town.

[Titus]

Basically all your scumreads are town.

And you know this... how?

Because we had this same fight in Street Racers about Amateur. I was right and convinced town wouldn't be that wrong that overconfidently and ignore me.

[Titus]

@Vonflare, Both. Pers and Marge were casing me as SK based on my vig crumbs being too obvious.

To expand:

Marge made a comment awhile back that she wouldn't be surprised if Titus were SK. This got me thinking and watching.

I rarely notice crumbs, but I saw Titus crumbing vig. Crumbing vig and then fakeclaiming it would be a neat play for a SK, and Titus loves neat plays.

She began the game by pushing hard for a massclaim. A massclaim would be good for a SK, as it gives PR targets. It doesn't do much for a vig, as scum would likely just claim VT.

Then she pointed out that FB had made a possible cop crumb. This serves no town purpose, but would be good for a SK, as it puts scum onto the cop.

Look at my ISO next to his and Flubbers. His derails wagons without calling the poster town (Blocky/ProHawk). He has zero interactions with Marge. He flails when caught and tries to paint himself as a victim. His reads are largely OMGUS but for a shit read on Ranger. He doesn't want to have townreads.

Yes, please do look at my ISO and compare it to her summary.

I don't do "neat plays" that gain nothing. I don't claim early unless forced to do so. My play has purpose to coordinate town and leave scum no where to hide.

You recycled all your gripes and included none of my responses which disprove your assertions.

You outed crumbs you felt were obvious but griped about me doing the same thing.

U had town motivation to ensure that FB remained hidden and we didn't target the same person. Obviously, you don't have that concern, so you outed my crumbs why?

Just to case me?

[Titus]

Because we had this same fight in Street Racers about Amateur. I was right and convinced town wouldn't be that wrong that overconfidently and ignore me.

How many times are you bringing this up?

Yeah, you were right that time, and you caught scum on post 29 once. We get it.

You've probably played hundreds of games. I'm sure you've been right quite a few times. That doesn't mean much here.

Why don't you tell about the time that as VT you fakeclaimed doc and then the real PR CC'd and got killed?

No qualms. We won Dating game due to my moves at the end.

I have made 1 fakeclaim that was a mistake. I don't fakeclaim much. I am one of the best at setup cracking. For every "blunder" I have, there's 5 successes.

I mention Street Racers because it fuels my read on her.

[Titus]

Play for a true vig is crumbs so town knows it's not an SK kill.

[Titus]

@Pers, In my place, who would you shoot (suppose I am vig).

[Titus]

Off to work. Be back in 3-4 hours.

[Titus]

Can we stop with the whole, you're terrible lynch you shit? It's degrading and supposes that there's one true way to play mafia. ETL, your type of behavior isn't cool this game. You're stating that you do not care about m alignment but you hate the fact I disagree with you that much that you don't care. I will never think like you. You will never think like me. That doesn't make me less worthy of respect. I don't think either of us try to make the game less civil or fun, so I am telling you that's what you're doing here.

Contrast to Marge. She has thought I am the SK, said so in a calm and rational manner. She hasn't vilified me or treated me like crap.

Your attitude from my perspective is blinding you to an obvious conclusion or mistaken logic.

First, given I have claimed a killing role, scum will want to lynch me or not based on my reads. If I am correct, scum will want to lynch me. Incorrect, they will want to protect me. Given the loud stances of Persivul and FB, they are not likely partners. Yet you have them both as acceptable sumreads.

Your refusal to consider lynching Ocean solely due to his on AtE post because it felt genuine is silly given the fact you'd be scumreading Ocean based on his content. The whole thing reads contrary for cpntrary's sake. Flipping Ocean says which one of those is more likely scum.

I am never going to give you that genuine feeling if you treat me like I am less useful or impossible to understand. I have been transparent in everything I have been doing when the scum motivation would be to do the opposite.

I am not going to attack you as scum for this because I know townies get frustrated because I don't buy emotional appeals and go by facts numbers and decisions. I know my weaknesses and try to find others who can help compliment them and speak my language. Am I perfect, no? But I think you're town and I rather would not be mislynched because you didn't care to try because you think I lack basic skills.

If y'all are still intent on lynching me, at least let me get my read and breaking strategy walls up that cannot be accused of being fake once I flip.

[Titus]

Have to drive home. If you see me posting elsewhere (other than my modding) I am home.

[Titus]

I already said why I did. FB denied it as a crumb. Jeezus. Second, I didn't want to shoot who he copped.

Ok, my guide to game break.

Spoiler: Setup

Popcorn Massclaim D2.
Step 1, PR or VT.
Step 2, The last player to type PR fullclaims and popcorns.
After all claims are in, you should have a very detailed idea of how many scums are in the PR and VT claimers.
If there are fewer than 7 letters, do not presume auto town.
Compare letters to the number of living scum.
Enjoy at least 2-3 universal protown, possibly some conftowns.
Be very suspicious of scenarios with a low likelihood.
The only game with this setup I recall losing was where town delayed giving scum outs..

Reads: Ocean Persivul need to die Asap.

[Titus]

Don't murder FB, Marge, Prohawk, ETL

[Titus]

Wait uhhh if this is a 1-shot vig claim gone sk why aren't we just eating the one vig/sk kill whatever and forcing scum to crosskill

Fear of Titus scum.

[Titus]

@Flubber, there's zero need to vote me if you think I am town. Worst case, NL. I shoot ocean. We get scum flip or scum role blocker confirmation.

[Titus]

I am intrigued at the argument of Titus SK but I don't really want to lynch her oddly enough.

VOTE: kop

Can we lynch this instead?

I endorse this product and/or service

Ocean is better but this is ok. I'll trust you.

VOTE: Kop

[Titus]

I'm not taking her being a shit player as an excuse.

The case on her right now is about outing a cop crumb right?

Because that's honestly playing against wincon as either alignment

@Titus I don't trust you to not do something stupid and you're not town to me you're null

I am shooting Ocean if neither of us are lynched. Bank on it.

[Titus]

Mafia, a game in which everyone is autistic and you have to make a pbp analysis to get anything done.

Hey I am an aspie. Knock this shit off.

[Titus]

Kop wagon is the new enthusiastically garbage alternative to Titus and it's not happening.

If that was the case, why wouldn't Ocean be voted? No one's town reading him but ETL's reason might as well be she hates me.

Instead if reading his posts, all you've done is hurl insults and use words any player who knows me knows I'd get pissed about.

[Titus]

As soon as another sane player pops in and Flub has to settle too we're good.

Can you stop berating everyone who disagrees with you?

[Titus]

As soon as another sane player pops in and Flub has to settle too we're good.

Can you stop berating everyone who disagrees with you?

That's not why I'm berating you.

Still, berating players deliberately ignoring anything anyone says and just making people feel like shit is not why I play and if that's why you play, never play with me again.

P.S. I expect a huge apology post game.

[Titus]

I'm berating players because in order to play in the site's first blitz game I had to settle for playing with a couple really awful players and I'm not going to sugarcoat my reactions.

Oh wow another subtle dig for being awful.

[Titus]

I'm berating players because in order to play in the site's first blitz game I had to settle for playing with a couple really awful players and I'm not going to sugarcoat my reactions.

Oh wow another subtle dig for being awful.

I'm sorry that your role has forced you into this corner.

One shot vig playing transparently and honestly didn't.

You treating my like shit and trying to provoke me did trying to create apathy in the town did.

I did nothing but try to guide town.

[Titus]

Don't mind ythan he's tyical not an asshat so this push is just to make sure players ignore anything I say.
Even though I was the first to mention a sk and look how quickly it got ran with and pushed

*shrug* just getting to the point where I don't care

Unless the answer is ocean persivul ythan kop with ETL being fed up townbeard, someone pushing this garbage is rewarding toxicity and logic can't stand if no one is able to hear it.

At least you learned something from our games about me. That's a positive to take.

[Titus]

Etl reads town to me.
Persivul is scum, I just don't have time to explain further

At least you and ETL agree on that, but I bet after I flip town ETL will push Firebringer instead.

[Titus]

Eh why do you think that's better than any of the wagons that exist?

Would you vote ETL if a theoretical conftown player asked you to?

You got a long road to hoe. I don't see myself voting ETL

[Titus]

Titus, if we reached the deadline would you self-hammer? Why or why not?

Probably not. I try not to think about it.

The pro survival answer is to say yes, duh but using my vig just can act like a lynch anyway. Then when the time comes lie and be afk. I just don't care enough to lie.

[Titus]

@Vonflare, provided I live, who should I shoot?

[Titus]

Vonflare look at how that garbage Kop wagon formed as an alternative to this good and true Titus wagon.

And when I flip town?

[Titus]

Vote Count #2.3:

OceanWind:

EspeciallyTheLies, Flubbernugget (2)

Ranger:

OceanWind, Kraeg (2)

EspeciallyTheLies:

Ranger, Ythan (2)

Ythan:

Marge, Firebringer, ProHawk (3)

Firebringer:

Persivul (1)

Not Voting:

Kop,

With 11 people alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

V/LA:

Kop until Sunday morning.

Deadline:

(expired on 2015-11-09 22:47:00)

[Titus]

Vote Count #2.4:

OceanWind:

EspeciallyTheLies, Flubbernugget (2)

Ranger:

Kraeg (1)

EspeciallyTheLies:

Ranger (1)

Ythan:

Marge, Firebringer, ProHawk (3)

Firebringer:

Persivul, OceanWind, Ythan (3)

Not Voting:

Kop,

With 11 people alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

V/LA:

Kop until Sunday morning.

Deadline:

(expired on 2015-11-09 22:47:00)

[Titus]

Rob and I continue to have this debate on claiming early. Again, town didn't do a letters claim. Town lost. Proof is in the pudding.

I said Ocean and Persivul needed to die. Cursory VCA says Ocean had to die.

Instead of lynching scum, we lynched who felt good.

If it wasn't for ETL/Ythan, this would have been one of my best towngames ever. No one actually thought I was scum when lynched.

ETL, you can quibble over word choice but you lynched me because you thought you were better than me. I had Ocean with his awkward half baked responses. Persivul was obvious after his push on me.

The role of PRs in this setup is to trap the scumteam.

I am fully capable of admitting when I am wrong. You're incapable of seeing someone else might be right.

GG to everyone.

Rob, you were a fine mod.

[Titus]

1) One happened because town didn't massclaim.
2) Kop was conftown by letters and Ocean should have been lynched for that. PRs shouldn't be obvtown. A little pressure is good.
3) Towards the end is too late. Scum can tailor fake claims. If the scums fake claimed mason, they'd be dead.

The logic is fine. The strategy is binary. Either it was executed or it wasn't. There is no partial credit. Seeing that town lose every time when such a mass claim isn't done makes it strong proof.

[Titus]

Scum played well here.

Oh and another notch. Mislynching Titus D1 outs the scumteam. Y'all just managed not to get lynched this time.

[Titus]

So you'd policy lynch me before realizing the only way town loses is by not following this. I have had every single game town lost running this had scum fake at the end. Town does it early. Town wins.

It's fear or not caring to look at evidence. *shrug*

[Titus]

As scum, putting off claiming in a semi open is the best thing possible.

I may join as well. Great players in this one but ETL/Ythan. Depends on schedule.

[Titus]

My play was optimal here. Just because you disagree doesn't make it suboptimal.

Flubber, I suck with crumbs. Still crumbs aren't needed here.

[Titus]

Nope. Scum can leave ambiguous crumbs. Crumbs shouldn't be left with no evidence.

The plan works by locking people in.

[Titus]

It locks the PRs into being dead. That's the problem.

Does town have a wincon that says PRs must live?