Newbie 1769: Happy New Year! (Post-Game)

[-Grey-]

Also check deadlines vs actual lynch dates.

OH WOW, IT'S LIKE IT'S ACTUALLY MY PLAYSTYLE!

[cassielle]

but you arent trying to give me your perspective. the way to do that is

actually, yknow, im jsut gonna

something to think about tho for my scumreads: me calling you out is a chance for you to get yourselves off the hook. i am not tunneling in on you, i am aggressively pursuing players who ping my scumdar heavily. this is a chance for you to convince me those were misfires, and i am not an unreasonable person. scum will find my questions difficult. town knows why they do things, they should not have much trouble with them. im hoping at least one of you is scum, gonna be honest, but itd be nice to sort out the at least one innocent from the pile early on so we can take this game by end of d2, so im sure hoping you guys understand i dont want you to fight me, i want you to convince me. things will go quicker like that, js.

this ^^^ is what this whole thing is. what the hell is the point of how you have responded when 492 sums up my motivations?
do you not see how your response would make me assume you have no interest in actually clearing your name and just want people to not suspect you at all period, when you should have read 492 while catching up and should know my motivations here?
do you not understand how your explosion of fury in response to the same thing i did to gbT (but with stronger logic and a less aggressive approach) and tb/shade (but larger because youve posted more than they have) is absurd looking for where im at?
do you not see how calling out things i call NAI as casting shade or w/e is silly when i LITERALLY did not skip a single nonfluff post in your entire ISO when making that masterpost so i mean, OFC things were gonna come up as NAI now and then?
do you not see why, from where i am standing atm, it isnt me not trying to look at your side, its about you not presenting your side in anything but the most ghastly and over-the-top of fashions?

p-edit: fine, ill check. i DO NOT put weight on this, and it will not influence my reads if anything you have told me about your meta thus far is true. gimme some time to read through.

[-Grey-]

^ fucking obvscum post lol

"I don't care how much you prove me wrong. I am going to double down and pray nobody else smells the bullshit pouring out of my mouth!"

[cassielle]

no, i want you to change your approach and treat it, for ten damn minutes, like its actually a good-faith scumread. ffs.

thus far your linked game is reading way diff from this game overall actually -- way more lighthearted even with no pressure. when someone tried to pressure you, you waved it off super-casually. (which i would actually have taken as a good thing if you had done it here.) etc. you look way different between the two.

and i said it before: meta is something you can quite possibly read and learn how to approach differently, making your scum plays look like town plays. this is why i put very little weight on it. its a "ok, i need to NOT DO/DO MORE OF these things" checklist you can go back over at any time.

[-Grey-]

Grey whats your read on Ircher currently?

Idk, I'm occupied elsewhere.

ISOed Ircher, he seems pretty town.

Wow, I read super deep into Ircher before giving a read. Three whole minutes worth.

[-Grey-]

Casserole, you're full of shit and anyone that actually reads the game I linked will see that.

[Creature]

UNVOTE:

Cassiele and -Grey-, though anyone could answer

Okay, so pretend Rask isn't counterclaimed (aka conftown), what are your scumreads now?

[cassielle]

tb and -grey-. tb is a weak one, and i really need to get a third slot in for consideration. gun to my head id grab shade for that third slot, but the two lurkers is the easy lynch -- ONE of the scum is probably in there, sure but both doesnt feel likely to me and they just strike me as an ultra-unlikely scumteam together. i dont like having them both in my scumreads and i REALLY want to eliminate one.

[-Grey-]

when someone tried to pressure you, you waved it off super-casually.

*GROAN*

Thanks for the abstract, now give me the facts

Grey seems v scummy to me too - lots of bickering, controlling the tone of the town but not actually giving very much information or analysis. Very combative, but not in a way that actually leads to information for town. This might just be a playstyle thing though? I'd have to read his meta and I don't want to do that right now.

Look at this scumread.

LOOK AT IT!

Bickering - NAI
Controlling the tone of the town - vague accusation that doesn't actually say anything
Not giving much information or analysis - anti-town, not scummy
Combative - NAI

She admits her read on me may be playstyle but has zero intention to do the legwork to see whether I play this way and whether it's alignment indicative, but she's thrilled to string me up for it regardless.

I like HS, I like AA and I like Alisae. The latter two mostly because of the Asphodel wagon.

Why? What about that one wagon makes them town? How could they not do it as scum?

Fucking weak.

I can't fucking stand TF, but I don't think it's alignment indicative. I think he's just an asshole.

Blah blah blah. For bitching about someone not leading to information for town, you're saying a whole lot of nothing about 2F, hypocrite.

Since Gamma claimed Ascetic Enabler, any "no results" results should be insta-lynched because the ascetic(s) is/are scum hiding behind the role.

I'm happy returning to my previous vote.

VOTE: Naomi

I don't like this. There are tons of other roles that could lead to no-results. This could just give scum easy mislynches. This + your "scumslip" thing earlier really make it seem like you are out for excuses to push lynches.

At this point I think I am convinced enough to drop the Asphodel thing for the moment - though I'd like to revisit it later.

VOTE: Grey

Bullshit vote. She sees me as an easy target and abandons her Asphodel push while keeping her options open should she have to walk back her read on me later.

I don't believe the claim for a second. Even then, optimal play IMO is to lynch me, and let the town PRs do their work tonight.

Orrrrrr, instead of lynching town, we could lynch scum instead, how bout that?

I am not happy with the situation vis a vis grey and am not sure I buy the claim, but I'll UNVOTE: for now.

Probably going to go back to Asphodel wagon, but it's getting a bit too much traction too fast this time and I want to look at who is hopping back on it.

Why should town care about the speed of votes on a renewed wagon that was temporarily stalled in favor of another one? It doesn't make the wagon any worse simply because players are returning to it.

She was paranoid about how hopping over would look and wanted to appear townie.

On top of that, her ISO is just filled with shade casting and coasting.

VOTE: krylea

Super casual.

[-Grey-]

krylea was scum btw.

[-Grey-]

Keep on misrepping me, Casserole.

[cassielle]

didnt get that far before i checked back in, my bad. (was referring to ircher fake voting you over and over early on tbh) ok, so you react similarly, but the two attacks are extremely different in style and i really dont see why mine is getting you on this level. im not using the NAI stuff against you, am i? like, i just MENTIONED it. its a masterpost, a condensation of your ISO, and obviously its biased through how i read what i see there. what is with this nuclear detonation? hell, i even thought it over and (reluctantly, sure) encouraged you to clear your name and you still reacted this way. why? why not do like everyone else has and take it down calmly one by one until i am reasonably sure i have a town read on you or you dont seem possible to salvage as a townread?

[-Grey-]

When someone puts a lot of effort into misrepping my play, that's what happens.

[-Grey-]

didnt get that far before i checked back in, my bad.

Wait, are you saying you skimmed???

I thought town deep read?!?!

What does that make you, Casserole???

[-Grey-]

That's twice now I've caught her missing information after accusing me of being scum for missing information.

[-Grey-]

And THAT is why I do what I do.

[cassielle]

jfc i was going slow before i came back and posted a goddamn reply to you and i never actually got to that point. but you know what, go on with your bad self and the personal attacks and the bullshit assumptions /youre/ making about /me/. youre killing every last shred of fun by this point because its turned into some sort of goddamn crusade on me without even considering the remotest possibility that i came by this honestly.

im taking a break

V/LA till tomorrow

[cassielle]

That's twice now I've caught her missing information after accusing me of being scum for missing information.

actualyl no you know what, you want to hammer this slot, hammer this slot. jfc with your hypocritical bs.

VOTE: Cassielle

your move. ill be back tomorrow if the day aint done.

[-Grey-]

That's twice now I've caught her missing information after accusing me of being scum for missing information.

actualyl no you know what, you want to hammer this slot, hammer this slot. jfc with your hypocritical bs.

I illustrate your hypocrisy and you accuse ME of being the hypocrite?

That's rich.

[mattblackguy]

actualyl no you know what, you want to hammer this slot, hammer this slot. jfc with your hypocritical bs.

VOTE: Cassielle

your move. ill be back tomorrow if the day aint done.

wtf? why the self vote? Grey broke Cass?

[-Grey-]

and the personal attacks

For the record, I don't believe I actually did this but I do apologize if you think I attacked you as a person because that was never my intent.

[-Grey-]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=69704

This game lasted three weeks.

Town lynched four scum in five day phases.

GTFO with that "wanting to cut days short is anti-town" bullshit.

[cassielle]

ahem.

sorry. took a minute, got some food, realized "oh shit right hypoglycemia is a bitch" and decided to reread.

i do NOT think youre giving me a fair shake (like, as a player regardless of alignment, not a a person or just as a town player or w/e) but yeah, you didnt personally attack me. that was frustration combining with irritability from not eating and blending into a mess. overreaction, major apologies there. im usually better than that.

im still going to take that break (should be about ~16-20 hrs all else being equal) but when i come back, i think we need to start this from a different angle.

things to think on:

i did not intentionally misrepresent you. if i misrepresented you at all i dont want you to jump on me with both feet and just start beating tf out of me, i want you to point out specifics calmly. this no-give thing is going to cause a ml.

keep in mind that while you know what you did and what was going on in your head, i dont, i have to guess.

read back through the last few posts and think to yourself if you even gave me the slightest chance of having an honest reason or if you just decided i was lying and didnt deserve the chance.

let someone else, or maybe a couple people, give their thoughts regarding this whole mess.

i /am/ frustrated still, because i feel like you have made up your mind and refuse to even consider the possibility of being wrong, in which case you should not be trying to convince me im wrong, you should be trying to convince other people that you are right.

UNVOTE: Cassielle

apologies again for that. that V/LA is still in effect. tc for now folks

p-edit: i am not reading anything else you post for now. i dont think youre being reasonable in the least and i need time to cool off still. actually read this, please. because honest: ill just replace out if i come back and nothing is different. this is not fun.

[-Grey-]

i did not intentionally misrepresent you. if i misrepresented you at all i dont want you to jump on me with both feet and just start beating tf out of me, i want you to point out specifics calmly.

- Accusing me of defending my predecessor
- "target locked" commentary about my 570
- accusing me of being Scum for skimming when you've done the same
- twisting my playstyle as being alignment indicative

[-Grey-]

That's just off the top of my head. I really don't want to go back into rehashing that wall.