Newbie 1795 | Summer | Endgame

[Papa Zito]

no objection to that. I just think it's odd you used that as the first argument against him.

Odd how? What does the order have to do with anything?

[Tchill13]

The only thing that stands out to me about zitos case on kawl is that it came immediately after I stated kawl was my 2nd scum read.

[Papa Zito]

good lord almighty

[jjh927]

If Zito was jumping on a case for towncred he'd be with me on the Cece wagon

[Cece]

Yo, will respond to case before I head to uni, then readthrough more carefully later tonight and figure out what I think. Responses in italics.

Fykus is an obvious alt, so I'm curious to see what he'll do.

I think Cece is an alt

Also this is a thing. Not sure why. Wouldn't it be funny if they were mafia together?

This is a lovely bit of shading.

I reckon we should probs wait to see if he's shitposting before anyone else confirms/unconfirms.

Also, NM, why claim now? I thought we'd been saying that we'd not do it for a while, if we did.

Vote is staying on til NM replies.

This is some unnecessary yet active participation in the discussion immediately following NM's claim. The thing is, that first point had been said already and that second point is redundant.

Ya fair point. I don't think I actually had anything really important to say here - wanted to wait for NM to confirm before deciding to stay on him or not. I did ask the question cause, assuming he wasn't shitposting, I wanted to check his motivations. Seemed weird to me, given that I think only Cero and i were voting him, so he was p far from a lynch.

That's a legitimate concern and also the reason why I was pushing this to later, but I do believe we need to do this if we're playing to win.

However, I think we can get this done efficiently and get right back into scumhunting, provided people are active. Things end up getting slowed down when someone disagrees.


We may already have a resolution. If Not_Mafia is telling the truth then we're already done. If he was just shitposting then he is seriously getting lynched.

I understand kawls reluctance to the strategy. Either way it's a good idea. Not BP. Unless not_mafia confirms pretty soon he's not shit posting I feel like we should lynch him.

Why the sudden call for lynch, you two? You weren't voting him before, and I seriously doubt that shitposting (this way, anyway) is a huge scumtell.

I grabbed this post a bit earlier. This is really scummy with knowledge of the flip, IMO. It's important to note we weren't calling for an immediate lynch there, and, more importantly, Cece had been voting NM for some time before this. The particular way she goes about defending someone she has a vote on here feels really off.

Wasn't trying defend NM, I wanted to know what you two were thinking. Those two posts read odd to me - I don't reckon shitposting is enough to call for a lynch, and didn't like the call for lynch without NM replying. If NM had actually been the BP then - given his lack of posting at this time - it felt like a way to push for a wagon w/o confirmation.

Then she goes and misses most of the NM V Tchill discussion. Not necessarily AI, but it's worth noting she stayed out of it from here until the end.

Just to say that this discussion took place over 3 hours. I'm not online all the time. (AI?)

Ok wow lol, brill. One scum caught. Hooray!

Staying on NM. Read him as mafia before. Although I don't really understand the motivation of the scum here, either NM or tchill.

Also I read tchill's response to NM claiming - that is, checking if he's shitposting, then checking the BP strategy, then claiming, as town. I think perhaps scum would've been more cautious.

Just in case, in the intervening time between now and hammer, please nobody claim to support either of the two. We'll be lynching a scum either way, so, not optimal play hey.

I don't read any of this post as even remotely sincere. It's really really off. There's the celebration at the start, there's the stating of the obvious, and there's the last sentence which I find really weird and somewhat nonsensical.

Ok not sure how to respond to this one. Dunno why celebration is weird, not sure either where I'm stating sth obvious (the last part of the first sentence?) also not sure what's wrong with stating sth obvious unless that's literally all you do - and I can't remember fully but I think the last sentence was in response to someone saying that one of NM/Tchill could be rolefishing for someone else - it is a newbie game and not everyone's necessarily gonna be familiar with BP strategy, or PR strategy generally. Didn't want to risk it.

That should be all.

[Cece]

Sorry missed the first quote - I don't know what shading is?

[Papa Zito]

"AI" = "Alignment Indicative". Saying

some action

isn't AI means a town player is just as likely as a scum player to do

some action

.

[Tchill13]

Zito other than me who's your town reads so far? I read jj as town but I'm not too sure about anyone else. Honestly it just seems like there's not enough activity to go off of. Could just be me though.

[Papa Zito]

Zito other than me who's your town reads so far? I read jj as town but I'm not too sure about anyone else. Honestly it just seems like there's not enough activity to go off of. Could just be me though.

May I direct you to post 406.

[Tchill13]

Sorry for asking I just thought that was more of a run down of what had happened from you rather than direct reads on players. Although you read Cece as town I like jj's case against her. Kowls input at the beginning of the day phase wasn't very helpful though.

[Papa Zito]

Those are my reads based on our wagons and flips.

I see where jj is coming from with that case but he doesn't really address why she'd be on Not_Mafia at that moment in time. Her defense is weak (and hard to read ffs) but I'm more inclined to let those two play than get involved really.

I mostly want Kowls to get in here and do things.

[Arnold Schwarzenegger]

no objection to that. I just think it's odd you used that as the first argument against him.

Odd how? What does the order have to do with anything?

I assume you always start with your biggest reasons to scumread someone when you put out a readslist like that.

I also think as the IC you should know better than to scumread someone for something like that.

[Cece]

Zito, are your reads purely based on "wagons and flips"? Are they affected at all by the way people are posting, or their motives &c? Cause seems to me that just having reads based on things ilke those is a bit of an easy way to not be forced to argue so much.

For instance, I reckon the point that I was on NMs case before he claimed BP a bit off, cause really when I voted him he wasn't at risk of a lynch. Same w Cero, I guess, and while from just a wagon analysis it might seem pretty strong, from a posting one it doesn't, so much. I reckon, say, posting styles throughout would be a better way to get reads, but you dont really mention that.

[PenguinPower]

Vote Count 2.02

Kawl

(1): Papa Zito

Cece

(1): jjh927

Papa Zito

(1): Tchill13

Not Voting

(4): Cece, Cero68, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Kawl

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2017-05-31 12:00:00)

[Papa Zito]

I assume you always start with your biggest reasons to scumread someone when you put out a readslist like that.

I also think as the IC you should know better than to scumread someone for something like that.

For your first - that's probably a bad assumption. Assumptions lose games. Don't make assumptions. Regarding your second, you have absolutely no idea how utterly sick I am of reading that sentiment.

Zito, are your reads purely based on "wagons and flips"? Are they affected at all by the way people are posting, or their motives &c? Cause seems to me that just having reads based on things ilke those is a bit of an easy way to not be forced to argue so much.

For instance, I reckon the point that I was on NMs case before he claimed BP a bit off, cause really when I voted him he wasn't at risk of a lynch. Same w Cero, I guess, and while from just a wagon analysis it might seem pretty strong, from a posting one it doesn't, so much. I reckon, say, posting styles throughout would be a better way to get reads, but you dont really mention that.

The foundation of my reads are based on wagons and flips yes. Votes and alignment reveals are hard data.

You may reckon as you wish. I've already explained my reasoning.

[jjh927]

For the record Zito, I'm staying out of your push on Kawl for the same reason as you're staying out of mine on Cece.



Cece- who is your main scumread right now?

[Arnold Schwarzenegger]

I assume you always start with your biggest reasons to scumread someone when you put out a readslist like that.

I also think as the IC you should know better than to scumread someone for something like that.

For your first - that's probably a bad assumption. Assumptions lose games. Don't make assumptions. Regarding your second, you have absolutely no idea how utterly sick I am of reading that sentiment.

Assumptions happen all the time. The key is to figure out if what you're assuming is correct.
I'm sure you've heard the IC thing 100 times before. It's just a fact people expect more from an IC than from any of the other players.
Have you taken part in the BP strategy before?

[Papa Zito]

Hey zito, if/when should we commence the bp/not bp schtick?

I actually don't know what this is. Explain?

[Arnold Schwarzenegger]

Fair enough. I'm really struggling with the fact that you think it's scummy not to want to participate.

[jjh927]

Actually, I am gonna jump in here.

I think there's definitely something to be said about not wanting to participate. Let's say everyone else goes through with the strategy except one person, who will then be convinced to claim anyway.

People market the strategy by saying the chance of scum landing a successful fake claim is 1/6. But as it's impossible when they have a roleblocker, they only do it when they have 2 goons, giving them a 1/4. Back to where I was-

If the last person to claim not BP is scum, then they know there's no BP in the game, meaning their fakeclaim chances are 1/3.


Not wanting to participate can definitely be spun as scummy if you think they're following through on that. Obviously doesn't apply here as there is a roleblocker.

[Papa Zito]

So I think the fact that you'd argue against a strategy that's known for helping town win is questionable.

TChill explained it concisely and well here. Why is this hard to understand?

[jjh927]

Speaking of Tchill, he still hasn't confirmed he's cop for the sake of confirmation.

I'd like him to do that.

[Arnold Schwarzenegger]

So I think the fact that you'd argue against a strategy that's known for helping town win is questionable.

TChill explained it concisely and well here. Why is this hard to understand?

I think it's not too hard to see past that and I've explained why.

I'll just drop the argument. I don't think we're going to agree on it.

[Kawl]

Just wanted to say been swamped between working late and some double headers in softball. Will make time this afternoon (within next 12 hours) to put together some cohesive thoughts.

[Cece]

Those are my reads based on our wagons and flips.

I see where jj is coming from with that case but he doesn't really address why she'd be on Not_Mafia at that moment in time. Her defense is weak (and hard to read ffs) but I'm more inclined to let those two play than get involved really.

I mostly want Kowls to get in here and do things.

Un game related, but sorry for difficult to read posts - if you have ways you'd like me to make them easier to read do let me know. I was wary, i think, of messing with quote tags/spoiler tage, cause I reckon I'd probs have fucked something up.

For the record Zito, I'm staying out of your push on Kawl for the same reason as you're staying out of mine on Cece.



Cece- who is your main scumread right now?

Agh I was gonna do a proper readthrough tonight, particularly looking at everyone's interactions with NM, but decided to get hammered instead. Gutwise, without a recent detailed readthrough, I'm not feeling ok with Zito. His townread on me (and probs other people save tchill) feels super weak - its not like I lead the lynch on NM and tbf even if my case was strong-ish, without the fake BP claim it wouldn't have lead to a lynch. I don't like the only wagon/lynch crew justification for townreads, I think I mentioned earlier but it feels like an easy copout.

Saying 'Cece's town cause she was first on NM with a case' - eh, it's weak and if I were scum I could've easily done the same thing. I don't reckon there would've been a way for scum me to figure out that would lead to a lynch. Although maybe it would be too strong/long a case? I dunno. Feels off to me.

Lol I reckon I just don't like the pure-wagon reading, it seems too open to mistakes, and too pointable to "here are solid facts! My reads are based on facts, not opinions! You can't read me as scum for this, it's all based on facts!

Sorry for any mistakes. Also, sorry for focusing on Zito's stuff on me, haven't had a chance to properly sit down and take notes &c, so the bits I remember are largely the stuff that concerns me.

Am not voting for these reasons also, but my main - not scumread, is not that strong - but off-feeling is Zito atm.