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[humaneatingmonkey]

We're gonna lynch between Porkens and havingfitz.

Err...I'm not scum ffs. Did you attend the Mulch school of scumhunting?

---

I did not read the 80+ pages at joining due to it immediately going to night and wanting to ensure I was still alive come D3. As the game has now ballooned to 100 pages catching up might be awhile.

Also...

FYI mod...I'll be v/la for a wedding Friday afternoon till Tuesday morning (Oct 8th).

errr that's not even anything i will not lynch you for

[Toranaga]

I have to say misère was a little scummy and now fitz is a little scummy too

it doesn't help

[havingfitz]

Maria wagon makes me feel slightly better about havingfitz/Misere slot.

Why is that?

[havingfitz]

OK...so I am caught up on my vote logging.

Good job on finding scum yesterday. As I haven't read yet I don't know if skittles was blatent scum which would have def been bussed or iffy scum. As there were no strong counterwagons to him (aside from Toranga for a short time) I will assume at least one partner bussed. My guess for a skittles busser would be Mulch with the L-1 vote combined with voting town most of D2 (misere/moi) and pushing the D1 mislynch.

For scum possibly not bussing skittles my pick would go to the Porkens slot based on D1 mislynch and D2 skittles avoidance. Also pushing the same wagon today that skittles did most of D2.

I sliiightly lean against there being all three scum on the D1 Maria wagon however so that makes me sliiightly doubt that both Porkens and Mulch could be scum together.

Skittles being on Chip Butty hard all of D2 leans me towards Chip being town.

Lean town on Thor and Taco atm.

tl:dr;

VCA based reads:
Town

lean

- Chip, Thor, Taco.
TBD - Whymafia, Toranga, human,
Suspect - Mulch and/or Porkens

If I was going to vote right now it would probably be on Porkens but I want to see if a readthrough supports the above reads.

[Porkens]

I don't know if WhyMafia is town, but I'm not going to take claiming Miller as evidence that he isn't.

I think humaneatingmonkey is town for taking an unpopular (because wrong, but still) stance w.r.t. WhyMafia's claim, and refusing to soften it under pressure. If he were scum hiding behind policy I would expect him to just say "oh, good point" and back down when everyone disagrees with him.

VOTE: Havo

I think humaneatingmonkey is town for taking an unpopular (because wrong, but still) stance w.r.t. WhyMafia's claim, and refusing to soften it under pressure. If he were scum hiding behind policy I would expect him to just say "oh, good point" and back down when everyone disagrees with him.

this is a great read on monkey and I agree with it. this is such a good post I wonder if you got there from a perspective of actually knowing he is town.

I don't know if I dislike this more for the scumread or for the bizarre appeal to my ego. This is not a hard read to get if you actually look at humaneatingmonkey's posts. Overall I don't scumread you though, it's just this one post that bothers me.

Incidentally, can you link to where it is you normally play?

---

Havo

has just fluffed his way through so far. His first post is chatter, his second post is chatter, his third post is IIoA, and his fourth post is parroting the town consensus on WhyMafia. I don't like this slot.

MariaR

is pretty bad too; her ISO consists mostly of excuses for not having reads and expressing surprise that anyone else does. I am pretty sure she has played on this site before, so there is nothing to be surprised about and this comes off disingenuous. There is something especially troublesome about 107:

Pedit: I didn't mean worrying as in "wow you're scummy" I meant it in townreading people so easy isn't good at least in my mind because everyone has time to type out posts and plan and where your from that isn't really a thing. I know you just talked about your reads but more detail would be nice.

Maria could not really have meant this in 103 since she didn't know where Toranaga had played previously or what sort of format it was.

skitter30

's replace-in has unfortunately robbed us of the chance to look at Robbnva's progression on WhyMafia. If Robb himself had reversed his position when the town consensus formed, that would be suspicious. Instead he transformed into a different person who has the opposite opinion on WhyMafia, and it's impossible to do anything with that. Frustrating.

As for

WhyMafia

himself, I am comfortable with giving him the benefit of the doubt. I am not comfortable with saying that claiming makes him town. I would like to see him actually offer some analysis of other slots instead of just talking about himself, now that it's obvious he's in no immediate danger of being lynched.

UNVOTE: Havo
I read ahead just enough to see that Havo finally hard-claimed. In the absence of a second cop claim I have to at least provisionally accept him as town.

@MOD

Speaking entirely hypothetically, if a Loyal Cop were to target a Town Miller, what sort of result would they get? (Specifically, would it be identical to the result for targeting a Mafia Goon?)

Spoiler: Wall of catch-up reactions, pp. 7-14

Sorry, but someone has to go and there isn't any solid evidence on D1. Not sure there is any value in dragging D1 out to a two week talkfest. We just have to go on people's reactions, and yours have been anything but reassuring.

This seems to be written from the perspective that you don't actually believe Havo is scum.

This is where I'd normally say go ahead and lynch me, cause town could do worse. But this time town could literally NOT do worse. Lynching me is the worst thing town could do.

If your 'soft' is this hard, you might as well just say "HI I'M A COP" right here.

Hello? Why do we have Havo at L-1 7 pages in when there clearly softing PR. Get off this wagon the fact it picked up so fast with no counter wagon is red flags all over.
If you think Havo is scum we can come back later. Let's vote the band wagon jumper.

VOTE: Chip

Good vote. Bad post re. Havo. It's not hard to see why Havo was where he was at this point, and the heavy softing had only just started.

Mulch's 175 is good analysis, and he follows up with a readlist. I'm calling him town.

Like honest to god you know how easy it is to fake a god dam reads list if you want to it's not that hard at all. Being sr for lack of reads is fucking stupid because coming up with genuine reads for some people takes time

Maria's best post so far. It comes from a townish mindset and one I understand.

I know but it's still the point that triggers me the most. I understand where Havo is coming from. I don't think a wagon magically shows up on scum 7 papges in and it's super sub optimal to lynch him here because if it's a town pr we get barely any info and we're in an awful spot we let mafia handle him or come back to him later but not today.

1. Off-topic, please don't use mental health terminology this lightly. It makes it harder for PTSD sufferers to be taken seriously.
   
2. If you look at my one other game played under this account, the very first wagon in the game was on scum. In fact this worked in their favor because whenever anyone tried to push him again they got a big "I can't believe you're still on that, that was at the beginning of the game" reaction, even though no one ever answered the actual points against him. Saying someone is less likely scum if they were wagoned early is just empirically false.

This sentence basically sums up EXACTLY why towns on mafiascum are straight trash. "-If almost everyone agrees on a wagon you're most likely wrong" what the fuCK? This is what a town should STRIVE FOR. THis is the END GOAL. The fact that there is unity is GOOD. There are THREE scum here, and 12 town. That means a VAST MAJORITY of town are agreeing. And scum are very very likely to busy day 1. Even if there is a scum snuck in there, it means nothing.Of COURSE they aren't going to make that arguement, no scum is shit enough to do that. And no, wagons on scum are very very fluid day one and yes, stick. These ideas are so wrong. So so wrong

QFT.

Alright. I disagree with your points entirely and it's making me angry but I'm more voting you for 99 and 164

These are the correct reasons to vote Maria.

Strong town: none
lean town: Robbnva
Null: None
lean scum: Monkey, whymafia, mulch, tor
Strong scum:

So far.

Severely incomplete read list. Opinions are good, you should have them.

About the Havo soft: If he really is a PR then drawing massive attention to himself by obstinately refusing to provide reads and doing all that complaining was a terrible way to play it. Also the alleged soft was so obvious he might as well have just hardclaimed a big PR. I agree we need to see a fullclaim at this point.

Agreed with this.

If he flips miller then we waste our day. If he flips scum, then that would be beneficial. How about we analyze and bring in discussions before we actually proceed with this lynch?

If whymafia is scum and if you're scum, you're bussing xD so i find it hypocritical if you two are scums xD

Who lynched? Whymafia? But if he ends up flipping miller then what? Thats my biggest concern here. I mean, if i was miller i would hard claim D1 too in the beginning as soon as possible.

Honestly this gives me a headache because monkey is right though. If there's a lynch or lose situation and lets say whymafia is actually town and survives until lynch or lose, he might get lynched at the lynch or lose phase.

But if whymafia is actually scum, we're falling for his fake claim, however if he's town, im pretty sure scums would want to keep him alive until lynch or lose.

Fluff, fluff, fluff, fluff, fluff. "If we lynch WhyMafia and he's town, that would be bad. But if we lynch him and he's scum, that would be good." Thanks for that keen insight.

Man, that was epic! If you guys are scum v scum, my hat is off to you.

I literally thought exactly this right before reading this post.

Robbnva has requested replacement. Searching now.

I hate to say it but I think that in all likelihood a chance of a town win just went up lol

By saying this, are you claiming Robbnva's slot as town?
Why? Like, he literally has no town vibes worth speaking of, and you're cracking a joke that requires him to be town - what's up?

This is an interesting observation. I can't decide whether to take it seriously as a potential slip, though.

L - 1.

This is where I'd normally say go ahead and lynch me, cause town could do worse.

But this time town could literally NOT do worse.

Lynching me is the worst thing town could do.

PR slip?

More hard-hitting analysis from Sergtacos.

***** My first Read List *****

I'm heavily Scum reading the guys STILL voting me after I have claimed a town PR.

This action alone, a day and a half into a 14 day 1, is scummier than anything I'm

Being voted for in the first place.

Lazy. And what's the point of softing if you're going to then say "I HAVE A TOWN PR" in black and white? It won't save you from being shot, all it will do is make it harder for town to make up their minds.

Skitter
#111
"@HEM: Do you think WM is scum? Or are you pushing a policy lynch on him? Similarly, do you actually want to lynch him today?"
Not overwhelmingly. It's a policy lynch, technically. I want him out so we don't have to deal with the slot later, and then analyze based on what happened to the slot later. I think it's because scum would advocate for his survival to the point of LYLO, where it would be too late.

This tone and your statement on Whymafia sounds like whymafia is actually a miller and you're scum. You're back and forth on my reads. I can understand why we should policy lynch him however I do get a sense that whymafia is town because his interaction from all this and this post. This post is giving me scummy vibes. It feels like to me YOU know which is why I won't be surprised if whymafia flips miller so you would get "Credit." that won't work on me.

First good post from Sergtacos.

Funny how you want a hard claim from him and not from everyone else? we might as well say fuck it and announce all of our roles.

So far, Whymafia= Miller

Anyone else want to hardclaim?

See how stupid this is? Why are you so demanding for Havo's full claim when there's still 2 weeks ahead of us for D1! Like I would expect a hard claim in D3 and/or D4, maybe D2 depending on the situation but wth.

This post, on the other hand, is willful misrepping. There is a huge difference between wanting a really scummy player who is the top lynch candidate and has already softed power to claim, and wanting everyone to claim. Given that it leads into a vote for Mulch, this looks like Serg has decided to scumread Mulch and is looking for a reason.

It's simple. Havo said that lynching him is the worst thing town can do. That is, he is claiming the strongest PR. So he is already going to be a prime target for NK. So there is no greater risk to town if he actually specifies what he is claiming.

Atm he has made it clear he is seeking the protection from lynching that a claim usually affords, while dodging the risk of being cc-ed that comes with a specific claim.

Thus a specific claim has upside for town and no downside. Leaving things as they stand just opens up the possibility of letting scum.havo cruise. Downside for town with no upside.

tl;dr:

Havo's obstinacy is so self-defeating that he may actually be town. Sergtacos looks bad. MariaR looks bad. Mulch looks great. Chip Butty is making a lot of sense but, as of page 14, I'm not committed to saying that makes him town.

Actually, I like the Maria wagon (though I wouldn't mind a Serg wagon either).

VOTE: MariaR

All these posts are scum

[Porkens]

I could probably be convinced of voting HEM fwiw

What about havingfitz

Just stop please. Focus your wrongness somewhere else.

We're gonna lynch between Porkens and havingfitz.

Err...I'm not scum ffs. Did you attend the Mulch school of scumhunting?

---

I did not read the 80+ pages at joining due to it immediately going to night and wanting to ensure I was still alive come D3. As the game has now ballooned to 100 pages catching up might be awhile.

Also...

FYI mod...I'll be v/la for a wedding Friday afternoon till Tuesday morning (Oct 8th).

OK...so I am caught up on my vote logging.

Good job on finding scum yesterday. As I haven't read yet I don't know if skittles was blatent scum which would have def been bussed or iffy scum. As there were no strong counterwagons to him (aside from Toranga for a short time) I will assume at least one partner bussed. My guess for a skittles busser would be Mulch with the L-1 vote combined with voting town most of D2 (misere/moi) and pushing the D1 mislynch.

For scum possibly not bussing skittles my pick would go to the Porkens slot based on D1 mislynch and D2 skittles avoidance. Also pushing the same wagon today that skittles did most of D2.

I sliiightly lean against there being all three scum on the D1 Maria wagon however so that makes me sliiightly doubt that both Porkens and Mulch could be scum together.

Skittles being on Chip Butty hard all of D2 leans me towards Chip being town.

Lean town on Thor and Taco atm.

tl:dr;

VCA based reads:
Town

lean

- Chip, Thor, Taco.
TBD - Whymafia, Toranga, human,
Suspect - Mulch and/or Porkens

If I was going to vote right now it would probably be on Porkens but I want to see if a readthrough supports the above reads.

Slightly better, still scum.

[Toranaga]

but muh mulch scumread

[Porkens]

Mine, too

[humaneatingmonkey]

It's really stupid to lynch Mulch. Havingfitz or Porkens. If both these slots are scumreading Mulch, I doubt Mulch is scum.

[Mulch]

If there were no coubterwagon, that can support bussing but that would mean they would have had to be on him while coubterwagon could have formed. Yet I wasn't on them for a large amount of time.

[Porkens]

Mulch Bumps up over chip/having.
Monkey/mulch is possible, but improbable.
I am fine with this gladiate.

vote: Havingfitz

[Thor665]

Maria wagon makes me feel slightly better about havingfitz/Misere slot.

Why is that?

Because of how Skitter bunched up his vote on Misere's.

I sliiightly lean against there being all three scum on the D1 Maria wagon however so that makes me sliiightly doubt that both Porkens and Mulch could be scum together.

Skittles being on Chip Butty hard all of D2 leans me towards Chip being town.

I agree with these points and have similar thoughts.
Why do you town read Sergtacos though?
I swear, either I'm crazy or everyone else is - and no one has been able to explain the townread to me yet.

As a preview - if your answer is "his vote on Skitter" then please go look at his vote and the post right before it, and all of his pushing on that slot before or after it and then let me know if it's still your reason only then.

[Porkens]

Serg and Toranaga were both on the Goon lynch and off the mislynch.

Misere and BBT were on the mislynch but off the Goon lynch.

[havingfitz]

Why do you town read Sergtacos though?

Strictly vca in absence of readthrough. He shoqed commitment to skittles wagon and could have opted for Chip wagon (L-2) or put Toranga at L-1 later. Unless those are scum PRs I'd think scum Taco would prefer them to a partner. All bussing aside.

[havingfitz]

Misere and BBT were on the mislynch but off the Goon lynch.

Good catch. Let's vote BBTs slot.

[Porkens]

I obviously prefer Misere's slot. I would not have voted MariaR there.

[havingfitz]

Hi. I am Vanilla Town. Here is my reads list:

WhyMaf

Torg

Thor

Misere - HavingFitz

tacos
humaneatingmonkey

Mulch
Chip

Vote: Chip

VCA based reads:
Town lean - Chip, Thor, Taco.
TBD - Whymafia, Toranga, human,
Suspect - Mulch and/or Porkens

If I was going to vote right now it would probably be on Porkens but I want to see if a readthrough supports the above reads.

Mulch Bumps up over chip/having.
Monkey/mulch is possible, but improbable.
I am fine with this gladiate.

vote: Havingfitz

[Porkens]

What's your point?

[humaneatingmonkey]

what the fuck Misere and BBT was off the goon wagon because they were being replaced smh

[Porkens]

what the fuck Misere and BBT was off the goon wagon because they were being replaced smh

BBT was voting at the time of the lynch. Havingfitz had already replaced in but refrained from voting because he "wanted to live through night 1"

MariaR

(7):

Chip Butty

, Mulch, Thor665,

BlueBloodedToffee

,

Misère

,

skitter30

,

Fykus

(LYNCH)

BlueBloodedToffee

(2): humaneatingmonkey,

Fykus

Fykus

(2): Toranaga, Sergtacos

skitter30

(1): WhyMafia

Chip Butty

(1):

Havo

Misère

(1):

MariaR

skitter30

(5): Thor665, Sergtacos,

Chip Butty

,

Fykus

, Mulch, Toranaga -- LYNCH

Chip Butty

(2):

BlueBloodedToffee

,

skitter30

Fykus

(1):

WhyMafia

Not Voting (2):

havingfitz

, humaneatingmonkey

[Thor665]

Why do you town read Sergtacos though?

Strictly vca in absence of readthrough. He shoqed commitment to skittles wagon and could have opted for Chip wagon (L-2) or put Toranga at L-1 later. Unless those are scum PRs I'd think scum Taco would prefer them to a partner. All bussing aside.

I submit it was not commitment at all.

[Chip Butty]

A pertinent fact about the MariaR lynch that needs to be pointed out to the newcomers is that Fykus, who flipped green, accidentally hammered her. It is entirely possible that, had that not happened, the wagon would have faded away in time. This is something Porkens appeared to miss in his rush to judgement.

[Thor665]

Whether or not it would have faded has limited change to the odds of scum being on it though.

[havingfitz]

what the fuck Misere and BBT was off the goon wagon because they were being replaced smh

BBT was voting at the time of the lynch. Havingfitz had already replaced in but refrained from voting because he "wanted to live through night 1"

MariaR

(7):

Chip Butty

, Mulch, Thor665,

BlueBloodedToffee

,

Misère

,

skitter30

,

Fykus

(LYNCH)

BlueBloodedToffee

(2): humaneatingmonkey,

Fykus

Fykus

(2): Toranaga, Sergtacos

skitter30

(1): WhyMafia

Chip Butty

(1):

Havo

Misère

(1):

MariaR

skitter30

(5): Thor665, Sergtacos,

Chip Butty

,

Fykus

, Mulch, Toranaga -- LYNCH

Chip Butty

(2):

BlueBloodedToffee

,

skitter30

Fykus

(1):

WhyMafia

Not Voting (2):

havingfitz

, humaneatingmonkey

This post is a lie and fabrication. I joined in post 2090...the same post the mod announced skitter was hammered. I didn't refrain from anything D2 because I never even got the chance to post.

bs.

VOTE: Porkens

[Porkens]

Hmm, I misread. For the vote, I was going off the mod post. I assumed your slot name was updated earlier than it was. You are correct.

I misremembered whoever said "...I would live through night 1" Who said that?

unvote

vote: chip