Newbie 1826 Basketball Game Over

[Thor665]

Your pedantry is really doing nothing to help you, regardless of your alignment. Anyway...

You whine about me being a pedant, and then offer a dictionary definition of a word that you're applying in a game term.
Fine, watch it become more pedantic - as you keep dodging the question you must know I'm asking;

How is what NSG did *not* trying to get me lynched (in an active way)?

And I don't see anywhere where you clearly suspected UCV on day two. I saw some questioning, although pretty minimal.

If I'm wrong then feel free to point it out rather than resort to petty insults. As I said I only skimmed your ISO; I don't have time to read every word of every wall you have posted this game.

You are wrong.
What do I get if I quote it to you?
Will you promise to sheep me onto UCV?

And even if you did question him a bit, it doesn't explain the massive change in attitude towards UCV to now not only strongly scumread him but to actually refuse to consider lynching anyone else.

Well...

1. How "massive" is this change exactly? Like - are you claiming I town read him?
2. When did I refuse to consider lynching someone else? You're horribly misrepresenting my desire not to try to play a game between other scum reads in order to avoid voting my top scum read. You're also ignoring that I directly asked for reasoning as to why the plan would make sense, and explained why I felt it didn't, and that I got blown off. Yeah, I was *real* full of refusal.

Thor. If you had gone through the plan who would you have voted and why?

If I knew that - I'd be claiming a scum team.
Why do you keep ignoring that I am actively trying to sort both the slots and that both slots are playing dodgy word games and derp with me?

Thor. I just lost a lylo becuase it went too fast and I want to make sure I consider all the options this time.

Okay - point me to where I claimed we should do this fast and I'll admit you have changed my mind.

You keep repeating ucv is scum for just a couple of reasons that can also be explained from newbtown pov. I dont understand why you were so convinced to the point of ignoring the plan, or at least give some thought about it.

Holy hell - I ACTIVELY CONSIDERED THE PLAN, EXPLAINED WHY I DIDN'T LIKE IT, AND ASKED FOR CLARIFICATION!
Why the hell do people act like I was being unreasonable?
If I was being unreasonable I WOULDN'T HAVE ASKED YOU TO JUSTIFY THE PLAN, I WOULD HAVE JUST TOLD YOU TO SOD OFF!

Your debate with nsg and luca has been mostly about you convincing one you are not the others partners and vice versa. If you are town I need to see how you sort them.

That is not actually what the discussion is about - my discussion with them has been about obligating them to explain their reasoning.
That is how I sort people - it's how I've always sorted people, and it's how I've been sorting people in this game since my replace in.
If you can't see that - we have some issues to overcome.
Like, you can't tell that I'm more excited to hear them explain their reasoning than to convince them of anything? I'm not even arguing with Luca that I'm not NSG's partner (though I am discussing not being Luca's partner with NSG) I'm discussing with Luca why UCV isn't town. So you're at least 50% objectively and factually wrong here.

You're not reading clearly.
How can I help?
Because I need you to start reading clearly - and you missing what 50% of my conversation is even about is not a healthy sign.

voyager acts a lot more formal as scum, and more concerned with actively coming across as townie. this game has had all of the hallmarks of his typical town game - newbie mistakes, jumping from wagon to wagon and basically being lynchbait for the entire game. it's consistent with his philosophy or just his mindset as coming from other, faster websites - he's stated before that he believes the purpose of vanilla townies is to throw as much info as they can out there without a whole lot of concern for their death. that comes across incredibly clearly to me this game.

Just like last time you discussed his meta, and hopefully not going to be dodged this time.
Could I get a link or an example?

I made 1347 because it's true - he is the only conf town, therefore he is the only one who anyone can fully trust.

There is a difference between trust and accuracy.

You weren't at all desperate when it was considered you and Thor were a scumteam - that would also have ended in a loss from your POV if you're town.

As for the buddying thing - I genuinely want to know Toto's opinion as he's the only one I can trust. Whether you accept it or not I couldn't really give a shit as I'm pretty sure you're scum.

for one, see the above post. for two, that wasn't about to end in my immediate lynch - i was (and still am) confident that when thor flips i can win it in lylo. in this situation, a lynch would happen on someone i know is mod-confirmed town - myself. i know for a fact that this will instantly end the game, so obviously i'm trying to avoid this.

What made you so certain that the NSG/UCV discussion would have resulted in your lynch first and that the Thor/NSG discussion would not have?

[Thor665]

Why can't I 1v1 UCV - you really need to justify that town read hardcore if you want me 1v1ing within derp.

This is not an unreasonable request or response - and I carried on the conversation with you for a few exchanges - and you didn't give me ANYTHING resembling a decent answer.
Your strongest point was "You debate better than UCV"

Well, quite frankly, looking at the thread, I debate better than NSG and Lucca also - so...?

You needed a town case.
You had nothing.
Thus the rule out was unsupported by any logic.

[Luca Blight]

Your pedantry is really doing nothing to help you, regardless of your alignment. Anyway...

You whine about me being a pedant, and then offer a dictionary definition of a word that you're applying in a game term.
Fine, watch it become more pedantic - as you keep dodging the question you must know I'm asking;

How is what NSG did *not* trying to get me lynched (in an active way)?

You asked me to define the word - I thought the meaning of which was pretty clear.

NSG wasn't actively trying to get you lynched as she was very much on the fence between you and me - there is nothing to suggest she was pushing your lynch any harder than mine, and obviously given we're in LYLO only the next lynch is immediately of significance.

Anyway, this topic is getting outdated so I'd prefer if we left it there.

And I don't see anywhere where you clearly suspected UCV on day two. I saw some questioning, although pretty minimal.

If I'm wrong then feel free to point it out rather than resort to petty insults. As I said I only skimmed your ISO; I don't have time to read every word of every wall you have posted this game.

You are wrong.
What do I get if I quote it to you?
Will you promise to sheep me onto UCV?

Well if you've fully caught up you would see I am now very much less confident on my initial UCV read, so I may indeed 'sheep' you on that, if I can assure myself you are not scum partners yourselves.

And even if you did question him a bit, it doesn't explain the massive change in attitude towards UCV to now not only strongly scumread him but to actually refuse to consider lynching anyone else.

Well...

1. How "massive" is this change exactly? Like - are you claiming I town read him?
2. When did I refuse to consider lynching someone else? You're horribly misrepresenting my desire not to try to play a game between other scum reads in order to avoid voting my top scum read. You're also ignoring that I directly asked for reasoning as to why the plan would make sense, and explained why I felt it didn't, and that I got blown off. Yeah, I was *real* full of refusal.

1. If you could walk me through your read progression on UCV then that would be nice.

2. Plain and simply, you are intent on lynching UCV today and are not willing to consider an alternative lynch. I don't think that's misrepresenting you?

I made 1347 because it's true - he is the only conf town, therefore he is the only one who anyone can fully trust.

There is a difference between trust and accuracy.

Just as there is a difference between bussing and distancing

But yes, even though I'm aware my own reads are worth as much as Toto's, it's always helpful to get a second opinion from a source you can trust.

You weren't at all desperate when it was considered you and Thor were a scumteam - that would also have ended in a loss from your POV if you're town.

As for the buddying thing - I genuinely want to know Toto's opinion as he's the only one I can trust. Whether you accept it or not I couldn't really give a shit as I'm pretty sure you're scum.

for one, see the above post. for two, that wasn't about to end in my immediate lynch - i was (and still am) confident that when thor flips i can win it in lylo. in this situation, a lynch would happen on someone i know is mod-confirmed town - myself. i know for a fact that this will instantly end the game, so obviously i'm trying to avoid this.

What made you so certain that the NSG/UCV discussion would have resulted in your lynch first and that the Thor/NSG discussion would not have?

I endorse this question.

[Luca Blight]

Why can't I 1v1 UCV - you really need to justify that town read hardcore if you want me 1v1ing within derp.

This is not an unreasonable request or response - and I carried on the conversation with you for a few exchanges - and you didn't give me ANYTHING resembling a decent answer.
Your strongest point was "You debate better than UCV"

Well, quite frankly, looking at the thread, I debate better than NSG and Lucca also - so...?

You needed a town case.
You had nothing.
Thus the rule out was unsupported by any logic.

If your idea of debating is boring your opponent into submission by endlessly asking them to define every word of their argument in turn...

[Thor665]

Anyway, this topic is getting outdated so I'd prefer if we left it there.

Just as long as you agree that basically what you were trying to do was split hairs over me saying 'hard bussing' while agreeing without question that if I had said 'bussing' you'd 100% agree with me.

Well if you've fully caught up you would see I am now very much less confident on my initial UCV read, so I may indeed 'sheep' you on that, if I can assure myself you are not scum partners yourselves.

I am caught up - I'm just trying to sort why you apparently can't read my iso for a hill of beans.

1. If you could walk me through your read progression on UCV then that would be nice.

I'm not sure I had a read progression. I pretty much found him objectionable most of the time.
My only ponder was trying to sort if he was obv. scum or lynchbait.
Anyone who says otherwise about that slot (like you and NSG both) is bewildering to me.

2. Plain and simply, you are intent on lynching UCV today and are not willing to consider an alternative lynch. I don't think that's misrepresenting you?

I think it is as I literally quoted myself considering it.

Just as there is a difference between bussing and distancing

A vastly more tiny difference - sure.

But yes, even though I'm aware my own reads are worth as much as Toto's, it's always helpful to get a second opinion from a source you can trust.

Nah.
Like, say I could absolutely town clear UCV.
Would you seriously consider his reasoning?
Don't lie

If your idea of debating is boring your opponent into submission by endlessly asking them to define every word of their argument in turn...

It's funny you want to dwell on that - since the conversation in question was me claiming I was bing hard bussed, and you trying to claim I wasn't by, first restricting the timeline, then debating the difference between a bus and distancing, and then claiming that the amount of "active bussing" was key.

But I'm the pedant who is causing problems by trying to get you to clarify your position (and argued you into a corner where you're kind of forced to clarify it to proceed and your solution is to ask for the conversation to be dropped.)

Yeah, sure, guess I suck at debate.

[Luca Blight]

1. No, even if you'd said 'bussing' instead of 'hard-bussing' I wouldn't have agreed with you. Bussing would be like what you're doing with UCV if you're partners - you are genuinely trying to get your partner lynched - the same doesn't apply to what NSG was doing if she was your partner. But if it stops this tedious discussion from continuing, then fine - you can be right on this one.

2. Maybe you have time to read and re-read everyone's ISO in minute detail, but I don't at the moment. Perhaps later I will have a bit of time, but I'm not sure why you don't just save everyone time and directly quote what it is you're referring to.

3. So what made you decide he is obv scum instead of lynchbait?

4. You considered the idea of lynching someone else, fine. You still chose to vote UCV regardless though and your current position seems to be that you're not budging from that vote.

5. Meh.

6. UCV? With a pinch of salt, perhaps. Toto seems a pretty reasonable player though and is certainly not coming to any rash conclusions.

7. Part of the problem is that whenever you do respond you are behind the play and a lot of what you are talking about loses relevance, hence why I asked for the discussion to be dropped. If this was a debating game then sure, I'd debate with you endlessly as you seem to enjoy doing, but so much of what you're saying isn't pertinent to what's actually going on in the game, nor is it helping me or presumably others ascertain a clearer read on you.

[Toto]

Thor - thanks for pointing out all the inacuracies and logical fallacies in my statements. Can you now tell me who is scum between Luca and NSG, and also explain those reads? Ill keep repeating this until you either do that or I dont give a damn about this game anymore and vote you.

UCV is now confirmed scum to you. Show me all the scummy stuff he has done, as well as Rc and zemaj.



UCV - Thor is scum confirmed scum to you. Tell me all the scummy things Thor and Plot did this game. Also I need your reads on the other slots.

Luca / NSG - we are lynching either Thor or UCV. Please try to figure out which is scum.

[Luca Blight]

Toto, can you order the possible scum pairings from most to least likely.

This would be mine at the moment:

Most likely

UCV/NSG
UCV/Thor
Thor/NSG
------------
Luca/Thor
Luca/UCV (almost impossible)
Luca/NSG (impossible)

Least likely

[UC Voyager]

give me a little if you want quotes and all of the details...

i will paraphrase!

day one

Plot goes for the assemble lynch! a relatively easy lynch to go for because of how much assemble lurks! Finally, everyone sheeps that and a PR is miss lynched

day two

Thor instantly targets the strongest wagon right off the bat! he sticks with it and doesn't contribute much else! it looks like he as scum was afraid to move off of cheekyteeky because of the fact people would scum read him for it! when NSG joins, she also goes for he CheekyTeeky lynch! prooves that there could be a Thor/NSG and that it is very likely!

day three

Thor goes for the no kill. It seems like a good idea to most of us, but it actually wasn't!because we no-lynched, scum made it 3 to lynch + easier to quick hammer! Thor does that and eventually, we all sheep him!

I have a massive case on NSG. just give me a sec to find it

[UC Voyager]

Also, I'll be keeping my focus on Zemaj's slot, something seemed off about it to me, but I can't fully place my finger on it yet.

Oh no

Do you not want to play with me?

We all love you, but we know how well you can play scum.

I believe it is actually yeah, shame that Voyager couldn't have included that in his naked vote.

As if that slot couldn't get any more foggy.

They seemed to have a lot of focus on my slot, but filed to explain why.....they just said that something is off. This seems a little scummy, but i would like to see some of his other scum games to compare.

They don't expect to die Night 1?

why wouldn't they. if im correct. This was talking about Assemble, But why would He not expect to be night killed? This isn't necessarily scummy, but it makes no since. Was it just the Early game talk, or did it have a point to it

After the fake Hammer. (props to Demios. I might use that in future games). Clemency posted this. As to why? I dont know. Everything he has said before about me seemed to say he had a scum vibe from me, but yet He posted this after the fake hammer. Wouldn't he think it was a good decision if He had thought I was scum?

While I don't know if I like the idea of Voyager in LyLo(no offense), I feel like I should play a bit of devil's advocate here, so scum doesn't get another free mislynch.

While it may seem scummy, the defense that he simply didn't know he had to claim can't be discredited. Considering how new his account is, I'd assume it's his first game here.
We all had our eyes on Assemble(Well, most of us) and I was about ready to claim intent myself.

I wouldn't blame anyone for hammering Assemble, due to how he was playing so apathetically, like he was just bored scum that got caught early. The 'online but not posting' thing especially got to me.
Perhaps this was due to a lack of motivation, or other matters, but he was the best option at a time.

I don't necessarily think Voyager is innocent, but I want to create a counter-argument so if he's scum, he's taken down by facts rather than gut.

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

This defiantly makes me unsure if he is town or scum because im not sure if playing devils advocate is scummy or not TBH. It isn't like lurking which is naturally considered scummy! Im not eactly sure what to make of this. : p


overall. I think he might be scum. The fact he has done little scum hunting is very weird, but I don't want to overthink something like that. It MIGHT get a town lynched, but I wouldn't want to Ignore it and let a scum live.

Some of my early thoughts on how The NSG slot could be scum!

I'm town. It's most likely Deimos, I lost energy to play this game.

This was his reaction. It seemed fake as hell. We all agreed on that. The wagon on clemency stopped when NSG replaced him!

Xnad or Voyager.

toto is town probably because scum don rage quit like that most of the time, and im town, so it looks like he was trying to target the town

Has to be lucca, since Voyager always acts like that anyway.

Lucca is town......so once again...trying to get a miss lynch!

Vc post to fill in with links in the morning

Votecount 1.Final

Peaches (2)

Spartan117 , Assemblerotws ,

Assemblerotws (5)

Plotinus , XnadrojX , Deimos27 , Peaches , UC Voyager , L-0

Plotinus (1)

CheekyTeeky ,

Not Voting (1)

Clemency ,

Day one deadline is Tuesday October 10, 6 PM PST. (expired on 2017-10-10 18:00:00)

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch!

[/size]

Clemency wasn't voting.....HE didn't share many reads, and didn't even vote! It looks to me as if he was trying to look townie for not voting for the person who was lynched! This strikes me as scum!

i feel like i have actively ruined this game. i came in, got someone a lot of people townread lynched and will now probably get my own slot lynched. town probably would have had a better chance if i just let myself die. this isn't even to comment how on poorly i read cheeky.

anyways, here we are with our conftown dead and the promised two weeks to sort things out. hopefully we can still make something out of this. if town can win anyways i might be able to make up for it all.

Kind of hints she is giving up, but later on says that wasn't the case. Im not sure if i should scum read this, town read this, or what, but it definitely seems significant. Town should not be accepting a lynch! If town gets lynched, town loses!

for this game more than others, i think i've found myself thinking "i really want to believe this" a lot. as the deadline grew closer and closer and as we waited in twilight for the flip, i really wanted it to be true that cheeky was scum. if that wasn't true, then not only did it mean i got a townie lynched (and probably myself tomorrow), it also meant that my read on cheeky was totally off. after cheeky had flipped, i found myself really wanting to believe that thor was town. if that wasn't the case and thor wasn't town, it meant that i was getting manipulated

before i was even in the game

. i don't think i'll be wanting to believe things anymore. hopefully i can approach everything from a fresh perspective and get to the core of issues.

a no lynch here is definitely the right choice. no matter who gets killed it's going to be good in terms of information. i'd like everyone to check in and get their thoughts in first before anyone ends the day, but i'm confident this is correct.
VOTE: no lynch

votes no lynch

UNVOTE:

unvotes out of fear it will be hammered early but \/

VOTE: no lynch

revotes it and asks me to hammer it shortly after......

[Luca Blight]

@Toto:

I basically want you to agree with me that the scumteam is two of UCV/Thor/NSG so that we can work together and eventually pick who we think are the most likely scumteam.

[Toto]

Why can't I 1v1 UCV - you really need to justify that town read hardcore if you want me 1v1ing within derp.

This is not an unreasonable request or response - and I carried on the conversation with you for a few exchanges - and you didn't give me ANYTHING resembling a decent answer.
Your strongest point was "You debate better than UCV"

Well, quite frankly, looking at the thread, I debate better than NSG and Lucca also - so...?

You needed a town case.
You had nothing.
Thus the rule out was unsupported by any logic.

If you are town we can chat about this after the game.

[Toto]

My problem with Thor is that he is spending a lot of time arguing definitions, and talking about the logic of certain statements.

Apparently this is how Thor reads people, but this is also a good place to hide by scum as it is a lot easier for them to talk and argue about objective facts (Logic, Definitions, Etc) than it is to express subjective opinions and emotions they don't really believe or feel.

[Luca Blight]

I'm still leaning towards lynching NSG; she looks like as safe a lynch as any, with the added benefit of having one confirmed Townie still alive Tomorrow to decide the final lynch.

[Luca Blight]

I'm just gonna go for it. If Thor/UCV are the scumteam then well done - your WIFOM did the trick.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: NSG

[Toto]

UCV please dont vote if you are town.

I think Thor may be scum here. And you said yourself nsg/thor doesnt make sense. So this is a bad idea if you are town...

[UC Voyager]

i do not intend on voting......im still thinking about an thor/luca team.........but nsg/thor is 2ed most likely


either way, thor is scum.....

[Toto]

Yeah Thor has to be scum if you are town, UCV. You should be voting Thor and no one else.

[UC Voyager]

Yeah Thor has to be scum if you are town, UCV. You should be voting Thor and no one else.

i thought i was tbh...

VOTE: thor

[Luca Blight]

The problem I have with voting Thor is that UCV/NSG seems like too much of a possibility.

[Toto]

If that is really what you believe you should vote UCV not nsg and risk the least likely scenario of thor/nsg

[Toto]

But it is up to you. Id prefer to wait on thor

[UC Voyager]

thor is conf scum to me......

[northsidegal]

working on some posts at the moment, nobody do anything rash please.

[Luca Blight]

Fine.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: UCV

I gues we'll now find out if NSG and Thor were a scum team.