Open 699 - Pick your Poison - Town Win


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Post Post #1175 (ISO) » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:31 am

Post by UC Voyager »

In post 1162, mutantdevle wrote:So @UCV, here is my list of all the times you have failed to answer a question, not answered a question adequately or been ignorant to calls against you. Sorry about this wall but I think that just reflects how your play has been:



- At the top of my post I asked you a question. The second one was, of course, rhetorical but I would have liked an answer to the first question. Overall, you didn't really react to my post here at all.

- Boring asked who you were leaning town on based on your initial read of the thread. You never replied. Your next post after this simply promised thoughts on DV which didn't address either my nor boring's questions.

- I reinforce the idea I want you to answer my question in yet you continue to ignore it.

- fishy votes for you and says your attack on DV was bad. You made no attempts to justify your attack on DV after this and you claim fishy's vote on you was a random jump. This is blatantly ignoring how someone is seeing scum within you.

- fishy makes a proper case against you and calls you out as scum. He made several points in this post which you chose not to address for a while. Furthermore, at the bottom of the post, he asks you a question based on something you wrote in post . You have yet to answer this question and clear the confusion with the point you were making there.

- Luca says he agrees with fishy which clearly shows there is some support against you. You completely ignored this additional pressure.

- Luca asks if you are going to answer fishy's case against you and in post you straight up tell us you are not. So you are purposely avoiding any pressure put on you with the excuse it doesn't help you scum hunt which is such a bs point to make.

- You make a complete u-turn on your stance of not answering fishy. But instead of addressing each of his points you simply ask a few questions to reject the points made against you. I do not feel you answered fishy, you just tried to make it seem like you did. If that was genuinely your defence against him then it is a very poor defence and does no one any favours.

- fishy points out your response wasn't good enough and asks you to answer each point he makes individual which you have not done. He then asks if you read the boring vote in context which you also have not replied to.

- Deas asks you to elaborate on your read on him by explaining the inaccuracies within it. You do not answer.

- You completely ignore everything that has happened beforehand here to take a weak shot at Ectomancer. You make no reference to any of the mounting pressure on you and seem oblivious to everyone's points against you.

In posts and you are purposely ambiguous over what I am doing to raise alarm bells for you despite Transcend's call for you to elaborate. was hardly an elaboration as you briefly state 1 new thing followed by a reiteration of your previous post.

- Luca votes for you which you seemingly do not care for and you choose to ignore.

- I call you out for a 2nd time for not answering my question in . I also make reference to how you inadequately answered fishy's concerns. Finally, I directly call you scum in this read and state how I intend for there to be a wagon upon you. You make no attempts to address any of this reiteration.

- At the top of this post I make a statement of how you could be in a scum team with boring and kelbris. Not one of you three have addressed this thought and it makes me wonder why you'd choose to ignore it. Boring even quoted the rest of what I was saying in that post so she purposely left out the part where I call the 3 of you out. Would you like to address your relationship with boring and kelbris now?

- You claim there is barely a case on you yet both fishy and Luca are voting for you. Furthermore, I had put forth and interest in voting for you as well as generally being against you. Finally, DV had also questioned you to some extent. If all of that is "barely a case" then it must take the entire town to be against someone before you think they are being opposed.

- Luca asks you 3 questions here. You only answered 2 of them. You are still yet to answer whether you think myself or DV are more likely to be scum.

- I asked you about whether you are reading in context which you have not answered. It is still unclear now if you have read things in context. I also mention how you had not answered my original question for the 3rd time as well as reference how you haven't been answering other people's questions as well.

- Luca aks you what made you change your thoughts on Transcend. You ignored this question for quite some time.

- I vote for you, which you also ignore. Would you still consider being halfway towards a lynch as barely a case?

- I make a detailed post as a defence against the points you made against me. This is the kind of thing you should have done when fishy called you out. Furthermore, if you are genuinely trying to push for a wagon on me like you suggest later then surely you would respond to my defence by addressing each point I make? So are you serious about trying to lynch me or what?

- You answered fishy's question in basically immediately whilst ignoring the huge post I made about you and the other concerns players have such as why your view on Transcend had changed.

- You get angry with me because apparently I had never asked you any questions. Not only have I asked you many questions but I've also stated you're not answering other's questions. You claimed you looked through my posts and couldn't find anything which makes me doubt this claim since I mentioned that you hadn't answered a question 3 times; 4 if you include the question itself. Furthermore, this post makes it clear that you've acknowledged my calls to answer questions but have ignored them every time. Even if you didn't know what questions I was referring to you have had at least 3 opportunities to inquire as to what I meant. But instead you maintain ignorance against most of the posts that call you out.

- You finally answer Luca's question in post , at least, it appears that way. You stated in the next post that you were actually thinking of DV so that invalidates your explanation of why your Transcend vote changed. You then stated your reason for the change which was kinda strange if you ask me. You stated the change was because his reason of trying to attract the night kill made sense to you but his alleged motive of trying to attract the night kill would have been something you would have read before you gave the initial read on him if you truly did read the thread as you claim.

- You ask us not to meta read you. Why, is there something in your meta you have to hide? Meta is a good way of scum telling players if their general play style is consistent. At least you have started to address concerns against you in this post and post but the way you are doing so is coming across as aggressively anti-town and as though you feel backed into a corner. Besides, you still have a lot more to answer to.



That's 25 points against you. Do you see why both myself and others see you as scummy? I expect you to adequately answer everything I have brought up here. If you feel like that's too much to answer all at once then you should have been answering these concerns as the game has gone on. I doubt you're going to answer much of this though since you never do.
for the 1,000,062ed time, i will answer a question WHEN I SEE THEM!

I have not seen a question from you I havn't all ready answered. do you need me to iso you and quote all your posts to show you this?
so...i don't get enough sleep
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Post Post #1176 (ISO) » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:59 am

Post by Fishythefish »

UC: to go for one particular thing, I addressed your case on DV in quite a lot of detail in 993. Did any of that change your thinking on your case against DV? Is any of it something you want to respond to persuade others of your case?

I could ask the same about mutant's rebuttal of your case on him in 1103. I find it hard to believe you make these big cases, people post quite thorough responses, and you just don't have anything to say after that.
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Post Post #1177 (ISO) » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:11 am

Post by havingfitz »

So Pro....no misdirection intended. Let me be more clear (hopefully).

Question to Pro
---> do you think Transcend is town or scum and does that answer impact your read on me?

So your scum!fitz premise is that I knew Transcend was lying and responded the way I did to implicate him.

If you want to propagate a theory that there is not an IC in this game that's fine. I think that is a major reach given that IMO IC is the weakest of the PRs available and there has not been a PYP game yet () that hasn't had an IC. Granted...none of them had a JK either so you never know. I don't think there is a 2*Vig because there wasn't a 2nd nk N1. So that leaves 2 of three between IC/1-shot Cop/and Tracker. If I had to bet it would be the 1*Cop and scum take their chances on a single investigation along with an IC. Vice a tracker that could track every night. If you think scum are more likely to select a cop or tracker over an IC then we're done talking and you're delusional.

If there IS an IC...

Scum!me would know there was an IC but not know who it was, so my mod confirmation question would be coming from a legitimate confirmation objective....i.e. NAI.

Town!me would not know what PRs are out there but my opinion would be that there was almost gauranteed to be an IC. And as I also said...if someone is going to claim a PR and I have a way of confirming it (ex. mod confirmation)...I'm going to ask to have it confirmed. And in this case it happened to expose Transcend as fakeclaiming. Which after a little more discussion I was willing to accept as a joke (the who innocent "chile" wording smartassery).


The voting Transcend bit was regarding the fact that you push a case on me being scum because I knew transcend was lying and tried to out him...yet you share the similar opinion that he needs to be out of the game and are voting with the person you are scum reading (me) for trying to implicate transcend and get him out of the game.

I.e you are saying I am scum but agree with me.


tl:dr;


1. I'm town.
2. I believe there is an IC in this game
as history would suggest.

3. Pro's push on me is based on scum!me knowing there ISN'T an IC in this game (see pt 2).
4. Despite scum reading me Pro agrees with my logic regarding getting rid of Transcend.
5. Pro's push on me is scummy for points 1, 3 & 5.
6. VOTE: ProHawk
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The shortest GTKAS thread ever!
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Post Post #1178 (ISO) » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:40 am

Post by UC Voyager »

im looking over, and your response to my case on DV makes me rethink a lot! I reread and im less confidante in scum!DV
UNVOTE: DV
so...i don't get enough sleep
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Post Post #1179 (ISO) » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:46 am

Post by Fishythefish »

In post 1177, havingfitz wrote:So Pro....no misdirection intended. Let me be more clear (hopefully).

Question to Pro
---> do you think Transcend is town or scum and does that answer impact your read on me?

So your scum!fitz premise is that I knew Transcend was lying and responded the way I did to implicate him.

If you want to propagate a theory that there is not an IC in this game that's fine. I think that is a major reach given that IMO IC is the weakest of the PRs available and there has not been a PYP game yet () that hasn't had an IC. Granted...none of them had a JK either so you never know. I don't think there is a 2*Vig because there wasn't a 2nd nk N1. So that leaves 2 of three between IC/1-shot Cop/and Tracker. If I had to bet it would be the 1*Cop and scum take their chances on a single investigation along with an IC. Vice a tracker that could track every night. If you think scum are more likely to select a cop or tracker over an IC then we're done talking and you're delusional.

If there IS an IC...

Scum!me would know there was an IC but not know who it was, so my mod confirmation question would be coming from a legitimate confirmation objective....i.e. NAI.

Town!me would not know what PRs are out there but my opinion would be that there was almost gauranteed to be an IC. And as I also said...if someone is going to claim a PR and I have a way of confirming it (ex. mod confirmation)...I'm going to ask to have it confirmed. And in this case it happened to expose Transcend as fakeclaiming. Which after a little more discussion I was willing to accept as a joke (the who innocent "chile" wording smartassery).


The voting Transcend bit was regarding the fact that you push a case on me being scum because I knew transcend was lying and tried to out him...yet you share the similar opinion that he needs to be out of the game and are voting with the person you are scum reading (me) for trying to implicate transcend and get him out of the game.

I.e you are saying I am scum but agree with me.


tl:dr;


1. I'm town.
2. I believe there is an IC in this game
as history would suggest.

3. Pro's push on me is based on scum!me knowing there ISN'T an IC in this game (see pt 2).
4. Despite scum reading me Pro agrees with my logic regarding getting rid of Transcend.
5. Pro's push on me is scummy for points 1, 3 & 5.
6. VOTE: ProHawk
Hmmm. I don't think that it's obvious enough there's an IC that it's scummy to disagree (though I would bet a lot on there being one).

OTOH, your opening demand for a claim is a ridiculously small thing to base a scumread on at this stage of the game.

PEdit:huh. I really didn't expect that :)
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Post Post #1180 (ISO) » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:47 am

Post by boring »

In post 1168, Transcend wrote:Something is really fishy about hawk's fitz vote
Can you elaborate?
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Post Post #1181 (ISO) » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:48 am

Post by boring »

In post 1174, UC Voyager wrote:what do you mean. i try harder here. I AM NOT! im putting an equal effort.
I'm not trying to be obtuse, but I don't understand what you're asking/saying here.
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Post Post #1182 (ISO) » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:04 am

Post by ProHawk »

havingfitz wrote:So Pro....no misdirection intended. Let me be more clear (hopefully).

Question to Pro
---> do you think Transcend is town or scum and does that answer impact your read on me?

So your scum!fitz premise is that I knew Transcend was lying and responded the way I did to implicate him.

If you want to propagate a theory that there is not an IC in this game that's fine. I think that is a major reach given that IMO IC is the weakest of the PRs available and there has not been a PYP game yet () that hasn't had an IC. Granted...none of them had a JK either so you never know. I don't think there is a 2*Vig because there wasn't a 2nd nk N1. So that leaves 2 of three between IC/1-shot Cop/and Tracker. If I had to bet it would be the 1*Cop and scum take their chances on a single investigation along with an IC. Vice a tracker that could track every night. If you think scum are more likely to select a cop or tracker over an IC then we're done talking and you're delusional.

If there IS an IC...

Scum!me would know there was an IC but not know who it was, so my mod confirmation question would be coming from a legitimate confirmation objective....i.e. NAI.

Town!me would not know what PRs are out there but my opinion would be that there was almost gauranteed to be an IC. And as I also said...if someone is going to claim a PR and I have a way of confirming it (ex. mod confirmation)...I'm going to ask to have it confirmed. And in this case it happened to expose Transcend as fakeclaiming. Which after a little more discussion I was willing to accept as a joke (the who innocent "chile" wording smartassery).


The voting Transcend bit was regarding the fact that you push a case on me being scum because I knew transcend was lying and tried to out him...yet you share the similar opinion that he needs to be out of the game and are voting with the person you are scum reading (me) for trying to implicate transcend and get him out of the game.

I.e you are saying I am scum but agree with me.


tl:dr;


1. I'm town.
2. I believe there is an IC in this game
as history would suggest.

3. Pro's push on me is based on scum!me knowing there ISN'T an IC in this game (see pt 2).
4. Despite scum reading me Pro agrees with my logic regarding getting rid of Transcend.
5. Pro's push on me is scummy for points 1, 3 & 5.
6. VOTE: ProHawk
I did think there was a decent probability of Transcend being scum when I had originally thought he duress-claimed at L-1, but that was my mistake. A claim at L-3 fits more with the VI narrative which doesn't preclude him from being scum, just less likely.

Why does history have anything to do with it? I don't think there is an IC in the game. I haven't done a lot of setup spec so I'm not really sure. It was just a hunch that I can't shake about your post.

Also, you being scum doesn't make you wrong about everything.
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Post Post #1183 (ISO) » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:08 am

Post by boring »

meh, this is looking more like a Fitz town game than a scum game. I found two of each (that were fairly recent). He looks townier when he's playing scum, tbh. I'm throwing him back into null for now.


Luca
Mutant
Transcend
------------> line of lynchability (I can't remember who I stole this term from)
Ecto
Fishy
Fitz
------------> preferred lynch pool
Kelbris
UCV
ProHawk
DeasVail

This looks like an easy lynchbait pool, which makes me uncomfortable.
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Post Post #1184 (ISO) » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:59 am

Post by Ectomancer »

In post 1169, mutantdevle wrote:
In post 1163, havingfitz wrote:My impression of UCV is they're lynchbait. The lack of responses could be due to being in too many games. Is their response rate to questions AI for them?
According to Luca, avoiding questions is something UCV does when scum aligned. Besides, if UCV has the time to make a huge post trying to call me out as scum by analysing my posts then he sure as hell has time to answer a single question here or there.

In post 1167, Ectomancer wrote:
@Mutant - OMFGMYEYESPLEASESPARETHEM
I don't understand why people have problems with walls when they are structured neatly. Would you rather I didn't contribute so much? Or would you prefer if I split my analysis up into several consecutive posts so you don't feel like you are reading so much? Either way, just deal with it.
Walls of text are scummy and you aren't scum. Fly town. Only my suspicion is you don't even get how you can improve. You don't tell people to "just deal with it". You figure out how to make your play easier on town players. So do it.
I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.

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Post Post #1185 (ISO) » Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:25 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

How are walls scummy? I have a lot of things I want to say and convey and hence I am going to. I’m not going to hide away my thoughts and opinions just because you don’t feel like reading.

Also UCV did you even read my post properly and actually look at the posts I was referring to with each point? Obviously not since you wouldn’t be denying the existence of questions. Furthermore, I asked additional questions in that post which yet again you are ignoring.
I mostly just lurk now.
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Post Post #1186 (ISO) » Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:36 pm

Post by Ectomancer »

In post 1185, mutantdevle wrote:How are walls scummy? I have a lot of things I want to say and convey and hence I am going to. I’m not going to hide away my thoughts and opinions just because you don’t feel like reading.

Also UCV did you even read my post properly and actually look at the posts I was referring to with each point? Obviously not since you wouldn’t be denying the existence of questions. Furthermore, I asked additional questions in that post which yet again you are ignoring.
Shh. Come back when you are willing to listen to constructive criticism.
I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.

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Post Post #1187 (ISO) » Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:21 pm

Post by ProHawk »

In post 1177, havingfitz wrote:do you think Transcend is town or scum and does that answer impact your read on me?
Forgot to answer the end part of this post, yes if Transcend was scum, it would make you less likely scum.
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Post Post #1188 (ISO) » Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:44 pm

Post by Luca Blight »

In post 1159, Fishythefish wrote:
In post 1157, Luca Blight wrote:I'm not having a go at you, I'm just stating a fact: whether you like it or not, you are scummy as both alignments - hence why I don't want to point out all the scummy shit you've done this game (there's a lot of it) as it can all be dismissed with "but he's scummy as Town also". I'm looking deeper, at the intricacies between your scum and Town play, and I believe this is your scum game. Nothing so far has lead me to believe otherwise.
What I'm seeing from UC is cases which I just don't believe are real; I'm pretty sure they came about through skimming someone's ISO
after
deciding to vote for them. Is that, specifically, NAI for UC?
That would be calculated behaviour, which is certainly not Town!UCV, so I would say it is AI.

UCV as Town changes his reads/opinions on a whim, but he is normally pretty transparent (if misguided) with it.
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Post Post #1189 (ISO) » Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:56 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1186, Ectomancer wrote:
In post 1185, mutantdevle wrote:How are walls scummy? I have a lot of things I want to say and convey and hence I am going to. I’m not going to hide away my thoughts and opinions just because you don’t feel like reading.

Also UCV did you even read my post properly and actually look at the posts I was referring to with each point? Obviously not since you wouldn’t be denying the existence of questions. Furthermore, I asked additional questions in that post which yet again you are ignoring.
Shh. Come back when you are willing to listen to constructive criticism.
What is your criticism here, that I shouldn’t share my thoughts and opinions? You haven’t actually given anything constructive here; you literally just stated that my post apparently made your eyes bleed. Constructive would imply you offered a solution to a problem you have identified which you have not. Besides, why should I change the way I play based on what one person says? If you don’t like reading through a lot of text then that is your problem and not mine. I also can’t help but notice many walls have been posted throughout this game yet only now you decide to criticise it?
I mostly just lurk now.
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Post Post #1190 (ISO) » Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:07 pm

Post by Luca Blight »

In post 1178, UC Voyager wrote:im looking over, and your response to my case on DV makes me rethink a lot! I reread and im less confidante in scum!DV
UNVOTE: DV
This just seems like a typical Scum!UCV fake reaction.

I want to show some meta that relates to how UCV has been playing this game.

Spoiler: UCV meta with explanations
In post 1073, UC Voyager wrote:here is a question for you

How is asking me questions going to help us find scum! unless you asking me questions is scum hunting......
This is similar to where he said responding to a case won't help him scumhunt.
In post 1440, UC Voyager wrote:WOW! so it is a luca blight, Thor scum team...thank you for confirming that to me! im the most informed townie in the history of non informed townies!
Fake reaction, like the one we've just seen from UCV.
In post 1493, UC Voyager wrote:
In post 1489, Luca Blight wrote:And I stand by my view that you are not acting like a townie who knows the identity of the scumteam - every post you make is reactionary and defensive.
yes. they kind of are! but that is because If the town realizes im town, you guys have to be scum! so im trying to make a defense to why i am not scum! If i am not scum, then the scum team is fairly obvious!


right now im under a shitton of pressure! the fate of the game rests on me! I hope i can save the town from losing!
More fakery (I still can't believe UCV survived this game) and the over-use of exclamation marks jumps out at me - this is something he doesn't seem to do quite so much as Town.
In post 1534, UC Voyager wrote:
In post 1533, Luca Blight wrote:Whatever Thor says please let's just lynch UCV today. I will take my time sorting Thor and NSG Tomorrow.
Man. I can't believe how desperate the scum team is now! They must have a feeling that Toto wont be dumb enough to lynch me. I am really happy to see this! It helps me show Toto how these people are scum!
Another fake reaction.
In post 1665, UC Voyager wrote:Here is my meta scum....


As scum, I talk about statistics a lot. I make very small posts that look like they are useful . I come up with very step by step plans. Order of operations. Then I use my statistics to make a case.

A lot of this is assuming what i would do of that game didn't end when it did.
Saying his scum meta is different than how he was playing, as he's done in this game.
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Post Post #1191 (ISO) » Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:32 pm

Post by boring »

I hadn't even taken into account fake reactions v. natural ones.

When people write like this?????? ......I struggle to read them at all! Let alone find them trustworthy!!!!!...... because they're putting TOO MUCH EFFORT into FORCING the reader to absorb their AtE??????

His meta is riddled with that junk. But I think you're right. Scum!UCV seems slightly more off with his reactions than town!UCV.

VOTE: UC Voyager

With the option to return to DeasVail, should that wagon gain momentum again
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Post Post #1192 (ISO) » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:39 pm

Post by Luca Blight »

@Pr0Hawk


It's fairly obvious Fitz isn't getting lynched today so you need to put your vote somewhere relevant.

What is your position on Deas and UCV?
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Post Post #1193 (ISO) » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:42 pm

Post by ProHawk »

Yeah, I've come to the conclusion that my reads suck... I have a couple ideas I'm hoping to implement this week with some extra time for the holiday. I actually don't really have a position on them and I should.
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Post Post #1194 (ISO) » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:46 pm

Post by Transcend »

Man i hate this uc lynch
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Post Post #1195 (ISO) » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:50 pm

Post by Luca Blight »

Why?
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Post Post #1196 (ISO) » Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:43 pm

Post by davesaz »


Vote Count 2.6

UC Voyager(4) - Fishythefish, Luca Blight, mutantdevle, boring
ProHawk(2) - kelbris, havingfitz
Ectomancer(1) - DeasVail
havingfitz(1) - ProHawk
boring(1) - Transcend

not voting (2) - Ectomancer, UC Voyager

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch
(expired on 2017-11-28 17:00:00)

Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord
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Post Post #1197 (ISO) » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:30 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

UCV is at L-2, cool. We’re only half way through the day though and I know y’all don’t tend to like days ending too early.
I mostly just lurk now.
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Post Post #1198 (ISO) » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:03 pm

Post by Luca Blight »

Not too late either, though, or else it can become a last minute scramble to get any lynch over the line (a bit like what happened on D1).

Ideally we should be ready to end the day with a couple of real-life days to spare.
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Post Post #1199 (ISO) » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:33 pm

Post by DeasVail »

Every time I read a UCV post it's like my scum-senses tingle on red alert and are all SCUMSCUMSCUMSCUMSCUM, but when I actually think about his posts, I don't know Luca, I actually think he's more likely to flip town here.
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