Open 701: Pick Yer Power X/Y Game Over!

[wilky]

Lets get this started then.
VOTE: Creature

[wilky]

Additionally, what role you chose may be reflective of your alignment. Eg. a cop isn't very likely to be chosen by scum.

Right, so lets

ALL

roleclaim then. I mean that will solve the whole game right?

You keep talking about scum being effected by the role being chosen first and that it could damage scum. Who's to say you didn't want to find out because you're scum and want to know if the kill would be successful tonight then?

Furthermore, why wouldn't mafia take cop if they had first choice? I mean I know it doesn't benefit them as much as town but if scum were to take roles such as cop early in the draft they could stop town from having them roles so roles are not AI at all.

[wilky]

If I were a PGO I would want the town to know that so that no protective roles get themselves killed trying to save me; is the death a scum really worth the loss of 2 (or more) townies with at least one being a protective role? At the very least I'd probably fake claim as either PGO or commuter so that the scum are more sceptical of voting for me.

And at no point am I backtracking here. I was always going to back down on the prospect of a claim if you explained you had no desire to do so; I'm sorry if I didn't explicitly state that in my first message. Since you have now said you don't want to role claim, that's the end of it.

"I AM NOT BACKTRACKING.... I'M JUST UHMMM.... EHHMM... FINISHED WITH THE CONVERSATION!!!!!1"

[wilky]

If I were a PGO I would want the town to know that so that no protective roles get themselves killed trying to save me; is the death a scum really worth the loss of 2 (or more) townies with at least one being a protective role? At the very least I'd probably fake claim as either PGO or commuter so that the scum are more sceptical of voting for me.

And at no point am I backtracking here. I was always going to back down on the prospect of a claim if you explained you had no desire to do so; I'm sorry if I didn't explicitly state that in my first message. Since you have now said you don't want to role claim, that's the end of it.

"I AM NOT BACKTRACKING.... I'M JUST UHMMM.... EHHMM... FINISHED WITH THE CONVERSATION!!!!!1"

I had no intent to start much of a conversation. What I expected from that post was either "no I don't want to role claim" or "yes, I'm this role". The result of a yes may have led to a discussion of where to go from there but a no would have had no effect on how to play that day. I did not anticipate such a negative reaction to the prospect of a confirmed PR player revealing what that PR is if they themselves had deemed it something that was beneficial to the town.

So are you going to roleclaim then?

[wilky]

If I were a PGO I would want the town to know that so that no protective roles get themselves killed trying to save me; is the death a scum really worth the loss of 2 (or more) townies with at least one being a protective role? At the very least I'd probably fake claim as either PGO or commuter so that the scum are more sceptical of voting for me.

And at no point am I backtracking here. I was always going to back down on the prospect of a claim if you explained you had no desire to do so; I'm sorry if I didn't explicitly state that in my first message. Since you have now said you don't want to role claim, that's the end of it.

"I AM NOT BACKTRACKING.... I'M JUST UHMMM.... EHHMM... FINISHED WITH THE CONVERSATION!!!!!1"

I had no intent to start much of a conversation. What I expected from that post was either "no I don't want to role claim" or "yes, I'm this role". The result of a yes may have led to a discussion of where to go from there but a no would have had no effect on how to play that day. I did not anticipate such a negative reaction to the prospect of a confirmed PR player revealing what that PR is if they themselves had deemed it something that was beneficial to the town.

So are you going to roleclaim then?

Personally no. I know that stating my role will have no benefit to town. But there are a few roles that may have some weight on the town by being known even if they have not done anything with them yet.

what did you really expect to gain if texcat said that she was the cop or the doctor or something? like, i don't understand why you wanted to have this conversation right now at the beginning of the day and i don't understand what you thought we'd gain out of it anyways.

Cop or doctor isn't so much as what I was expecting. I was more interested to see if they were one of the roles that can actually do something about being targetted by scum. If they did role claim something like cop though (which I don't think any town player in their right mind would do) then I would consider them town.

I really don't see what your angle is with this at all. As i've already said no roles whatsoever in this game are AI. The only reason I can think of for someone to want a role claim so early would be because they are scum and want as much information on town as possible.

[wilky]

Additionally, what role you chose may be reflective of your alignment. Eg. a cop isn't very likely to be chosen by scum.

Right, so lets

ALL

roleclaim then. I mean that will solve the whole game right?

You keep talking about scum being effected by the role being chosen first and that it could damage scum. Who's to say you didn't want to find out because you're scum and want to know if the kill would be successful tonight then?

Furthermore, why wouldn't mafia take cop if they had first choice? I mean I know it doesn't benefit them as much as town but if scum were to take roles such as cop early in the draft they could stop town from having them roles so roles are not AI at all.

I doubt that scum were really in the draft.

So how would scum get there roles then??

[wilky]

certainly you realize that a scum redirector could just fakeclaim as cop, right?

Anyone can fake claim as anything. But if you can prove someone's role is cop but not what their alignment is then I'd be more inclined to believe a cop is town than scum.

I'm actually starting to think that you are just idiot town surely scum would have given up on this by now.

[wilky]

@texcat : can you point out where it says in the rules that scum participate in the draft?

@wilky : the usual way?

This is my first u-pick game. Is it usual for scum to participate in the draft?

Even without reading the rules count the number of players in the draft list then count the number of players in the game...

[wilky]

@texcat : can you point out where it says in the rules that scum participate in the draft?

@wilky : the usual way?

This is my first u-pick game. Is it usual for scum to participate in the draft?

And if scum didn't participate in the draft then the game would be solvable straight away as the guys not in the draft would be the scum team.

[wilky]

What was the post mutant did something and the post he backtracked that something?

I don't know how to tag posts into their numbers on this site but start at post #35 then read onwards.

[wilky]

Use:

Code: Select all

[post][/post]

or you can press quote or Q+ at the right top corner of the post.

thanks

[wilky]

@texcat : can you point out where it says in the rules that scum participate in the draft?

@wilky : the usual way?

This is my first u-pick game. Is it usual for scum to participate in the draft?

Even without reading the rules count the number of players in the draft list then count the number of players in the game...

@texcat : can you point out where it says in the rules that scum participate in the draft?

@wilky : the usual way?

This is my first u-pick game. Is it usual for scum to participate in the draft?

And if scum didn't participate in the draft then the game would be solvable straight away as the guys not in the draft would be the scum team.

This is my first u-pick game. Is it usual for scum to participate in the draft?

i mean, 14 out of 14 players are in the draft order - i'm not sure whether i believe this or not.

Actually, there are 14 players and 16 available roles.

Obviously, scum would have ro be listed in the draft order or, as wilky points out, it would be game solved. But that doesn't mean they really participated in the draft.

Can someone with actual experience with u-pick games comment please?

I've read through a u-pick game. Scum do participate in the draft. Now the question is are you scum playing dumb or just town that didn't know.

[wilky]

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... _Power_X/Y

We have a winner!

Wilky & NSG : didn't you read the setup info? If so, why not point me to that like texcat just did?

I didn't have to read the setup info as I knew how it worked. Why didn't you go find it yourself?

[wilky]

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... _Power_X/Y

We have a winner!

Wilky & NSG : didn't you read the setup info? If so, why not point me to that like texcat just did?

I didn't have to read the setup info as I knew how it worked. Why didn't you go find it yourself?

I just feel that linking to the setup, or at least pointing me to it, would have been a more natural reaction to my question.

As I said, I didn't have it too hand as I didn't need to read it. Now can we leave it at that and get on with the game instead of having some off-topic smokescreen about who should be finding stuff for you?

[wilky]

{snip}

We can, but you seem a little defensive here.

Sorry but defensive about what exactly? I'm trying to take the game away from off topic conversations and on to more game related content. I'd be more inclined to believe that keeping an off topic conversation going would be a scummy thing to do.

[wilky]

As I said, I didn't have it too hand as I didn't need to read it. Now can we leave it at that and get on with the game instead of having some off-topic smokescreen about who should be finding stuff for you?

You didn't have it to hand? Lol what does that even mean here? Do you need your secretary to pull it from the file room or something?

I didn't have a link for it... I shouldn't have to go looking for it for you.

Why are you trying to keep off topic conversations going? Sounds to me like you're trying to hide something.

[wilky]

As I said, I didn't have it too hand as I didn't need to read it. Now can we leave it at that and get on with the game instead of having some off-topic smokescreen about who should be finding stuff for you?

You didn't have it to hand? Lol what does that even mean here? Do you need your secretary to pull it from the file room or something?

I didn't have a link for it... I shouldn't have to go looking for it for you.

Why are you trying to keep off topic conversations going? Sounds to me like you're trying to hide something.

You could have just said 'Look at the setup'.

What am I trying to hide?

I told you that scum participated in the draft... Surely that's better than saying look at the setup

Firstly, you played a "I don't know how this setup works" trick to look more town, then you took the conversation off topic and tried to keep it off topic, seems scummy to me.

VOTE: Chip butty

[wilky]

{snip}

We can, but you seem a little defensive here.

Sorry but defensive about what exactly? I'm trying to take the game away from off topic conversations and on to more game related content. I'd be more inclined to believe that keeping an off topic conversation going would be a scummy thing to do.

Okay let's get serious then. Your first post of the game you voted creature. Do you want to stick with that? Why? Why not?

Missed this post. I voted Creature in RVS, I have a null read on Creature just now.

[wilky]

I told you that scum participated in the draft... Surely that's better than saying look at the setup

Firstly, you played a "I don't know how this setup works" trick to look more town, then you took the conversation off topic and tried to keep it off topic, seems scummy to me.

VOTE: Chip butty

This looks like a 'leave me alone!' vote rather than a genuine 'you're scum!' vote. Tell me, what is my scum motivation for drawing attention ro myself like this?

Keeping yourself acting in the game thread but doing nothing to actually take the game forward.

[wilky]

I told you that scum participated in the draft... Surely that's better than saying look at the setup

Firstly, you played a "I don't know how this setup works" trick to look more town, then you took the conversation off topic and tried to keep it off topic, seems scummy to me.

VOTE: Chip butty

This looks like a 'leave me alone!' vote rather than a genuine 'you're scum!' vote. Tell me, what is my scum motivation for drawing attention ro myself like this?

Keeping yourself acting in the game thread but doing nothing to actually take the game forward.

And how have you yaken the game forward?

Okay, let's do that now. If i wasn't bugging you about the setup stuff, who would tou be looking at as scum right now? Who would you be voting for?

It's hard to say, what you've done has shouted out as scum too me so far.

I'd maybe be looking at Mutant but I feel he's more VI at the moment, everyone else is still meh to me.

What about your reads what do you have so far?

[wilky]

If i had to pick 3 right now:

Wilky for being squirmy and casting a defensive vote.
Mutant for blatant and ill-advised role fishing.
Aster for too much setup spec.

In no particular order yet...

Surely to make a defensive vote you would have had to make a push on me no? What exactly about my vote was defensive?

[wilky]

Also, after looking through Aster's ISO quickly there I don't see anything scummy in what he said, what in Aster's posts do you find scummy specifically?

[wilky]

That whole sequence where he is banging on about the draft order. It doesn't seem to lead anywhere useful.

Bear in mind these are just early game reads. You have to start somewhere, though.

Speaking of which, it seems weird that you're bugging me about moving the game forward, but when i invited you to do just that, you couldn't (or wouldn't )...

I don't have a full reads list yet, hence the reason I didn't want to talk about off topic stuff. Asking questions in itself is moving the game forward which is what I have been doing.

Anyways I have to head off out to work now.

[wilky]

If i had to pick 3 right now:

Wilky for being squirmy and casting a defensive vote.
Mutant for blatant and ill-advised role fishing.
Aster for too much setup spec.

In no particular order yet...

Surely to make a defensive vote you would have had to make a push on me no? What exactly about my vote was defensive?

Like i said, it looks like a 'leave me alone' vote. That attitude of leave me alone comes more from scum than town, I think.

'Leave me alone' yet i've been here interacting with you the whole time?

[wilky]

I told you that scum participated in the draft... Surely that's better than saying look at the setup

Firstly, you played a "I don't know how this setup works" trick to look more town, then you took the conversation off topic and tried to keep it off topic, seems scummy to me.

VOTE: Chip butty

I don't like how Wilky is willfully ignoring the rolefishing issue which has generated so much discussion otherwise.

I didn't willfully ignore anything though did I? I questioned mutant on it and eventually said I thought he sounded more idiot town than scum.

[wilky]

VOTE: Chip
You should know better than this.

I'm not keen on this post. There's no real reasoning behind the vote, can you clarify your position a bit further please?

VOTE: mutantdevie for bandwagoning.

(This is totally unrelated from my fear of mutant zombies.)

Seemed forced.

VOTE: Pisskop - One scum in the group of 1's for sure.

Also holy shit, look at that. I managed to pick the one number that wouldn't screw me and someone else over.

Seemed genuine.

Why does 12 seem forced? Why does 16 feel genuine?

[wilky]

Well Texcat, there's the off chance they didn't have pre-game chat. It goes on to my next point which North already sees.

It is highly unlikely scum picked the same number, that means that in the event we lynch a scummer in such a group, we can theroetically auto-clear the other person(s) who chose that number.

Also based on the logic scum want PRs. Misa actually gets some bonus points. Sure they'll be ahead of anyone who picks a duplicate number, but they'll never be ahead of people who picked a unique number, thus possibly giving up almost all PRs right from the get-go.

We also have another set-up advantage. Vanilla Townies are actually pretty powerful. If they landed a VT role, they know someone in the list above them got the role pair they picked. Which means if someone below them fake claims a role, they can be immediately called out.

But for now, that's what I got. Mutant is definitely a good start with his role fishing.

On the contrary, I have read a pick your power game on this site (i'm on my lunch break just now but will have a look for the game tonight if others want to read it) and scum did wagon numbers in the draft. Not all of course, they had if I remember correctly two wagons then a few individual numbers.

[wilky]

No. If I role claim I may as well place the vote on myself.

No claim = no sympathy of being hammered. If you don't claim, you will get hammered.

What would claiming actually acheive in this setup though? Claiming any role doesn't give answer to alignment.


I don't have much to add to the intent on mutant, I personally see him as idiot town but I can see why he would be perceived as scum. I wouldn't hammer him so early in D1 though we are then missing out on so much time to get information and draw scum out.

[wilky]

No. If I role claim I may as well place the vote on myself.

No claim = no sympathy of being hammered. If you don't claim, you will get hammered.

What would claiming actually acheive in this setup though? Claiming any role doesn't give answer to alignment.


I don't have much to add to the intent on mutant, I personally see him as idiot town but I can see why he would be perceived as scum. I wouldn't hammer him so early in D1 though we are then missing out on so much time to get information and draw scum out.

I agree with this post aside from the idiot town part. Being discarded as simply an idiot is why I don’t really care about living on if my opinions are just going to be dubbed as idiocy. I’m not an idiot; I’ve just made a mistake.

Wait a minute? Only that point you don't agree with? Following your own logic would suggest that you claiming might be worthwhile, you also said that people would have picked roles that would fit their allignment in your eyes so I assume you would have done something to that extent.

Whilst I don't agree claiming in this sense is the best thing to do surely

you

do?

[wilky]

I'm a bit uncomfortable with Creatures post aswell tbh. Seems to be buddying up with Mutant a fair bit.

[wilky]

You’re late to pointing that out. You also clearly haven’t read the explanation for it. And you also haven’t considered how stupid of an idea that would be for scum to do in my situation.

Late to what? Mentioning that Creature is buddying you? Now I may be going senile but I can't remember anyone saying that he was buddying you before hand. I also don't see comparing site meta from here to site meta on EE as a valid reason to town read someone.

[wilky]

mutantdevle + Creature scumteam, anyone?

I think that it would be one or the other. Creature buddying with Mutant seems to be more along the lines of if Mutant flips town he can try claim some town cred from it.

You’re late to pointing that out. You also clearly haven’t read the explanation for it. And you also haven’t considered how stupid of an idea that would be for scum to do in my situation.

Late to what? Mentioning that Creature is buddying you? Now I may be going senile but I can't remember anyone saying that he was buddying you before hand. I also don't see comparing site meta from here to site meta on EE as a valid reason to town read someone.

Both myself, MisaTange and, to some extent, Lalendra have addressed or hinted towards it. I was the main person who addressed it and gave an explanation for it before there was any real pressure over it. If you think the sentiment of playing with someone who shared the experience of a game that was a huge part of our internet childhood is not something we are at least going to have a small connection over then you underestimate sentiment. Sure we never knew each other back then but EE leaves a lasting effect on people that no one outside of it can specifically relate to. I wouldn't expect any non-EE players to understand.

This insistence that myself and Creature are a scum team gives me the confidence that my misslynch would not be in vain as at least it would give him town credit.

I don't have time just now to look and see if people did imply Creature was buddying you as i'm on my lunch break i'll look later. How I seem to recall it is they were more asking for reasons on why he was scum reading you. If you did imply that Creature was buddying you though why are you town reading him as in the bolded part in that quote? If you thought he was buddying you surely he'd be pinging your scumdar no?

Are you seriously suggesting that because you and creature were both on EE you can confidently town read one another because of that? Newsflash, it's not and i'd rather you found real reasons to read people I mean it's not like we are in RVS anymore so that reason won't slide with me.

[wilky]

Yeah my post above is supposed to read "asking for reasons on why he was town reading you".

Again, people defending you is not necessarily AI either. It could be brought forth in a case with evidence but lets not forget that when a town player is lynched everyone who voted them is not automatically scum.

[wilky]

Curiousity: Did you know that defending townreads is among town's objectives?

Of course, so fancy actually explaining your reads because so far its mostly been "X is scum, Y is town and ignore Mutant"

I am under the impression someone who is lynchbait is bait to be lynched.

Genius found.

[wilky]

I am under the impression someone who is lynchbait is bait to be lynched.

Genius found.

I don't get why you need to be sarcastic here other than to purposely be aggravating in a non-constructive way?

I didn't understand how what they were saying by describing textcat as lynchbait. So instead of assuming they were in the wrong, I took into consideration that perhaps the fault was on my part for not understanding the term. Over the last few weeks, I have been quickly learning a lot of new terms in mafia so it wouldn't be such a stretch to me if I simply misunderstood the term. Hence my post clarified that in case that was what was happening.

Think you need to grow some thicker skin.

Any other views on Creature yet Mutant?

What other reads do you have in the game so far?

[wilky]

I am under the impression someone who is lynchbait is bait to be lynched.

Genius found.

I don't get why you need to be sarcastic here other than to purposely be aggravating in a non-constructive way?

I didn't understand how what they were saying by describing textcat as lynchbait. So instead of assuming they were in the wrong, I took into consideration that perhaps the fault was on my part for not understanding the term. Over the last few weeks, I have been quickly learning a lot of new terms in mafia so it wouldn't be such a stretch to me if I simply misunderstood the term. Hence my post clarified that in case that was what was happening.

Think you need to grow some thicker skin.

Any other views on Creature yet Mutant?

What other reads do you have in the game so far?

I'm not offended by what you said, I just don't see why you needed to make that comment :3

I don't like the way in which he posts (several posts in a row that just consist of a sentence each) but I still think he is town based on his willingness to blindly defend me so early into my wagon.

I have reads written out in a rough draft of my post that I plan to make when I am lynched but I think they need some work. In general, I'm not willing to post my reads yet until either I'm forced to by being lynched or later during the day. (I've previously been scrutinised for posting reads too early in the game since joining this site).

You seem to be really sitting on the fence on creature for me. You say you think he's town but you've also expressed concern he is buddying you.

If you are town then why won't you want to share your reads list? That sounds a pretty anti-town position to me. You also realise you can't comment when you've been lynched no? No-one will critiscise you for posting reads I mean i've on seperate occasions posted reads on you, Chip Butty and Creature. No one has thrown any shade at me for making reads as that is the game.

[wilky]

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear on my Creature read. I'm not on the fence as I think he is town. It's just I acknowledge the possibility that he is scum looking for town credit from my mislynch; it's not something I feel is likely to be true though.

And I'm not happy with how my reads list looks yet. If you really want it then I will refine it for you and post it.

As town you should really always be refining your reads list. Doesn't stop you sharing it, how about even just letting us know the parts you're most confident of the way I see it the only thing you have committed too is that you think Creature is town.

In post 208, Lalendra wrote:
In post 189, mutantdevle wrote:
Not everyone on the wagon is irrational. Like I say, I would probably have been on the wagon myself if a wagon built around someone else asking the same question I did.

Not to be sarcastic, but if this is the case, why did you ask it? Did you only realize how scummy it was after everyone pointed it out?

I stand by my stance that there was nothing scummy about it (though I guess that's just the semantics of the question). As for realising I guess you could say I've since realised there are flaws in my statement. Eg. some aspects I have since reconsidered and the information/phrasing of the initial question could have used some work. I also feel that there is, in general, some town pressure on the idea of my wagon eg. if you don't think what I did was scummy then that makes you look scummy. I feel I would have fallen for that initial pressure and unvoted later.

I don't like this. You would've joined the wagon if it was on someone else even though you don't think it's scummy I am now again rethinking my thought that you are town and starting to lean more too scum on you again.

[wilky]

I don't like this. You would've joined the wagon if it was on someone else even though you don't think it's scummy I am now again rethinking my thought that you are town and starting to lean more too scum on you again.

The original town impression that it is scummy would have made me think it is scummy If I was not the one to be asking the question. I'm not yet familiar with what this website generally agrees is scummy and what isn't. As I'm the one defending the question rather than viewing a defence on it. Had I been in the other situation I likely would have left the situation believing that asking IF someone wants to role claim is always scummy and the only time you should ever mention someone else role claiming is if they are at L-1. As I have had to defend the question my opinion has remained the same that the question is not scummy since I've been forced to think about it more but instead I see how the logic behind the question is flawed.

As town you should really always be refining your reads list. Doesn't stop you sharing it, how about even just letting us know the parts you're most confident of the way I see it the only thing you have committed too is that you think Creature is town.

I'm happy with that compromise.


I believe northsidegal is town. She started the wagon on me and I don't think scum would have done that. I feel scum are more likely to be in the middle and later half of the wagon.

Aster is a slight town read for me but not too strong. Their misinterpretation of my questions feels genuine rather than forced.

Viomi I am leaning scum on. Her position on my wagon is both late and sheeping. She adds absolutely nothing opinion wise to my wagon.

I don't like how quiet pisskop is despite having played this setup before. As far as I know, no one else has played this setup before (correct me if I am wrong) so this lack of contribution os worrying from someone who is supposed to be more experienced here.

I agree with how not knowing scum are in the draft makes him seem like scum playing dumb. I recommend looking more into him after I'm misslynched.

CityEletric hasn't said much but since she didn't want to put me to L-1 that makes me think town.

MisaTange also hasn't said much but her approach to my wagon of questioning rather than accusing me makes me believe she is also town.

Anyone I haven't mentioned yet you can assume I consider null.

That bolded part is so flawed it's impossible to determine whether its coming from town or scum.

I do like the reasons on your read list though, none of it seems like its really forced and sounds pretty genuine whereas from scum I would've been looking for a reads list that was maybe clutching at straws. Especially in your situation.

[wilky]

Ugh, I'm feeling so lazy to answer these generic accusations.

I've used genuine and forced because:

Town will naturally look town, aka genuine.
Scum will try to look town, aka forced.

Not having this as a valid way to get out of it all.

VOTE: Creature

So far there I think Scum could include:

Creature
Chip Butty

Not fully convinced that Mutant is town I think as i've said a few times most things he's done could be attributed to idiot town or too scum.

[wilky]

I've made it pretty clear:

mutantdevle did something antitown, but not necessarily scummy. Maybe he thought it was the best play for town and he looks pretty newb to me.

tbh the reason I'm townreading him is not because of his rolefish, which can be ambiguous. I'm townreading him because he still keeps producing content in a way I find genuine.

I'm against the wagon because it reached the point it's a wagon to lynch. mutantdevle is already posting content and there should have enough out of him to sort, so the wagon on him must be to lynch.

I'm mainly afraid he might end just being a newbtown and it would mean we wasted an entire day on him, and we'll possibly have to start from zero next day with two less town.

I'm proposing for us to leave the wagon for now, doesn't mean we shouldn't revisit it if we end to the conclusion he's scum, but that's just later. Instead, we keep hunting for scum without the mindset of "mutant must be scum". We could always return to his wagon anyway.

So where do you propose we change attention too?

[wilky]

Btw, can you all just not say whether you got something or not?

Was going through Creature's ISO here and found this as all the Mutant stuff started to kick off also. I think he is referring to saying wether you got a PR or not. This is just as scummy and in fact even more beneficial to scum in my eyes. If this had gone ahead and everyone did in fact say whether they got a PR or not then scum would have a full list of everyone who had a PR in the game and could base their kills around that.

[wilky]

We could decide rn.

What's mainly scummy about Chip Butty?

If you would read what I said I think I made it clear on a few occasions. He was very insistent on keeping the game off topic at a point where it really should have been moving into a more serious phase. I also didn't like him expressing his ignorance to the set-up seems fake too me and a way to get town cred.

[wilky]

Pretty sure I said

not

to claim if you got stuff.

I think i'm just misreading what you actually meant there then.

[wilky]

Are you more bothered about the bolded part?

@texcat : can you point out where it says in the rules that scum participate in the draft?

@wilky : the usual way?

This is my first u-pick game. Is it usual for scum to participate in the draft?

Additionally, what role you chose may be reflective of your alignment. Eg. a cop isn't very likely to be chosen by scum.

Right, so lets

ALL

roleclaim then. I mean that will solve the whole game right?

You keep talking about scum being effected by the role being chosen first and that it could damage scum. Who's to say you didn't want to find out because you're scum and want to know if the kill would be successful tonight then?

Furthermore, why wouldn't mafia take cop if they had first choice? I mean I know it doesn't benefit them as much as town but if scum were to take roles such as cop early in the draft they could stop town from having them roles so roles are not AI at all.

I doubt that scum were really in the draft.

More so, the quote above but partly the one you said. Such an easy way for scum to try get town cred by saying feigning that they don't know how the set up works. After that its the insistence to keep the thread off topic and blame everyone else for not directly sending him to the wiki even after I call him out on it.

[wilky]

If i had to pick 3 right now:

Wilky for being squirmy and casting a defensive vote.
Mutant for blatant and ill-advised role fishing.
Aster for too much setup spec.

In no particular order yet...

What do you think about this, wilky?

I don't believe that I did place a defensive vote considering I was the one pushing Chip Butty at the time.
Mutant as I said has done stuff that could be either VI or scum so I have no issues there.
I will ISO Aster in around 15 minutes time to check that one.

[wilky]

Btw, there was another misinterpretation here:

Wilky - 7
Creature - 7
Lalendra - 7
Aster - 1
Pisskop - 1
Viomi - 1

Actually, I find this strange. Isn't the 1 group supposed to come first?

Also yes, scum does partake in the draft. This is my second pick-your-poison.

What do you make out of it?

What's the misrep here?

[wilky]

Btw, there was another misinterpretation here:

Wilky - 7
Creature - 7
Lalendra - 7
Aster - 1
Pisskop - 1
Viomi - 1

Actually, I find this strange. Isn't the 1 group supposed to come first?

Also yes, scum does partake in the draft. This is my second pick-your-poison.

What do you make out of it?

What's the misrep here?

Ahh, I see. Has he not replied to you instead of Chip Butty by mistake?

[wilky]

1. I don't think scum gets to talk before draft

Do you think this is a genuine townslip?

I'm not too sure really hadn't considered it in all honesty.

[wilky]

If i had to pick 3 right now:

Wilky for being squirmy and casting a defensive vote.
Mutant for blatant and ill-advised role fishing.
Aster for too much setup spec.

In no particular order yet...

What do you think about this, wilky?

Just looked through Aster's ISO and I don't see anything of not there either.

Chip Butty what exactly were you referring to about Aster was it him talking about the 1-7 situation or was it him trying to analyse what the mod had said afterwards that caught your attention?

Creature what are your views on this quote?

[wilky]

If i had to pick 3 right now:

Wilky for being squirmy and casting a defensive vote.
Mutant for blatant and ill-advised role fishing.
Aster for too much setup spec.

In no particular order yet...

What do you think about this, wilky?

Just looked through Aster's ISO and I don't see anything of not there either.

Chip Butty what exactly were you referring to about Aster was it him talking about the 1-7 situation or was it him trying to analyse what the mod had said afterwards that caught your attention?

Creature what are your views on this quote?

It was the 7-1 stuff that caught my eye. Mostly just early game stirring to get things moving. Not worried about Aster currently.

What would be scum motivated from it? Maybe he could have given up on it a post or two earlier as nothing could be done about it which has already been mentioned but when initially brought up it was perfectly valid and fine to ask.

[wilky]

Anyone up to wagon CommKnight?

Yay I got ignored again.

Though, I'm sorta fine with pisskop wagon.

Why a CommKnight wagon?

[wilky]

Some setup spec is okay as long as gamesolving is also being done. That wasn't the case here. It was getting into iioa territory, at least enough to warrant an early-game poke.

iioa?

[wilky]

Some setup spec is okay as long as gamesolving is also being done. That wasn't the case here. It was getting into iioa territory, at least enough to warrant an early-game poke.

iioa?

Information instead of analysis

So what makes it different to you talking about information on the draft and whether scum could talk during it then?

[wilky]

prodles

Fancy, actually playing the game?

[wilky]

Simple. I was actively scumhunting at the same time.

You can PM me more about the 1 or 7 Talk. I can Assure you that it changed nothing in the game.

Hold on. I suppose that means the slots would have been assigned identically if the 1 and 7 groups were switched? That does actually give us a bit of information:

• To anyone in the 7-group who got their slot: nobody in the 1-group tried to get your slot.
  
• To anyone in the 1-group who didn't get their slot: either your slot was taken by somebody in the 1-group above you, or it wasn't taken by anyone in the 7-group.

Possibly not full on scum hunting but Aster actually pulled out something usefully from it all.

You weren't scumhunting much though were you I mean you argued scum weren't in the draft but the numbers in the draft all added up so how would you hunt scum from that alone??

[wilky]

I think i'd be happy lynching pisskop on a PL tbh. He obviously doesn't care much about the game and if he does flip town I don't think he'd be much of a miss anyway. I asked him too actually play the game and the only response I got was that I put in an unneccessary comma.

VOTE: pisskop That's L-2 I think guys.

[wilky]

Hey wilky, would you try a different wagon?

That would depend who the wagon was on.

[wilky]

I think Comm's general inactivity is more likely to come from scum.

What makes his inactivity more scummy than you just throwing accusations without reason and dripfeeding information?
What makes his inactivity worse than pisskop just not playing at all?

[wilky]

Since it seems like we've got solid targets and the further discussion happening at this rate won't give us much more information, I think we should move on to with the lynch so we have more time to talk during the later days. In particular, I think having mutant's alignment confirmed could give us some quite valuable information.

Although I'm fine with lynching either mutant or pisskop, I've decided I'd rather lynch mutant after all. Aside from having way more evidence against him, a newly to be considered reason is that there is a ton of information to be gained by confirming mutant's alignment. If he flips scum, we're onto his potential scumbuddy Creature. Should he flip town, then at least most of us have had a lot of discussion with him which could give new leads. If pisskop gets lynched, his alignment will tell us hardly anything.

UNVOTE: pisskop
VOTE: mutantdevle

Why do you see Creature as a potential partner of Mutant? I'm more inclined to think the opposite as it looks like Creature went for some real buddying up with Mutant and if my theory is correct Mutant will flip town and Creature knows that and will hope to take town cred from the lynch.

[wilky]

I'm gonna show you one scum who's just in the background watching town eat itself:

VOTE: CommKnight

So, like are you going to show why he's scum or should we all just sheep you with no reasons?

[wilky]

I'm gonna show you one scum who's just in the background watching town eat itself:

VOTE: CommKnight

So, like are you going to show why he's scum or should we all just sheep you with no reasons?

This. You're so much more likely to reach something by at least making an effort to convince people of your stance. Please at least try to make an effort.

At this point I'm fine with lynching any of pisskop, mutant or Creature today.

For those of you who thought it was too early in the Day to lynch Mutant, can you tell us what you've learned by waiting?

That there are some people in this game who apparently really don't feel like contributing to the larger goal of lynching some scum.

My preferrable lynch would be Creature but pisskop is the more likely lynch and i'm happy with that aswell.

[wilky]

@Mutant why aren't you voting Viomi then if that's your biggest scum reading or even doing much to build a case to make them lynchable?

[wilky]

@Mutant why aren't you voting Viomi then if that's your biggest scum reading or even doing much to build a case to make them lynchable?

Are you serious? You don’t have to scroll up far to see the answer to that (which is also the second time I’ve explained why I’m not voting).

No I seen it I just don't think it answers the question much and all it says in my opinion is what is the point in you making cases if no one town reads you. Another question would be why will anyone change their opinion of you if you won't make the effort to push your reads more and try change our opinion then?

[wilky]

I'm still surprised how nobody is questioning how close-minded almost everybody is acting. I don't remember everyone ever agreeing on lynching any of the same three slots.

Or the possibility that the 3 proposed slots have acted far more scummy than the rest of the slots? And not

everyone

wants to lynch the same 3 spots do they? I mean considering one of those spots I think is town pretty much shoots that statement down already.

[wilky]

It's a lot likely we're just discarding the actual scum into "null"

What exactly have you brought to the table to criticise the way anyone else is playing? If you want us too listen to you start actually playing the game.

I'm gonna show you one scum who's just in the background watching town eat itself:

VOTE: CommKnight

So, like are you going to show why he's scum or should we all just sheep you with no reasons?

You can start by providing an answer too this.

[wilky]

- Lalindra
- Aster
- Commknight
- Ed Edd and Eddy avatar girl
-

mayyyybe assembles or wilky

OK so mine and chip buttys interactions are "Scum theatre" yet you wouldn't lynch in chip butty atall and would only maybe lynch me?

[wilky]

Huh yeah, there are plenty of good lynch options.

Too bad the top two wagons are bad lynch options.

Because they're your scum buddies?

[wilky]

ugh why are qe playing with teenagers again?

'you'
'no, you'
'*gasp* oh my gus you guys'
'like, youre being a total bitchface right now girl'
'i know right *giggle*'

A little ironic considering you have only just started playing the game, now any chance of answering this?

- Lalindra
- Aster
- Commknight
- Ed Edd and Eddy avatar girl
-

mayyyybe assembles or wilky

OK so mine and chip buttys interactions are "Scum theatre" yet you wouldn't lynch in chip butty atall and would only maybe lynch me?

Also would be good to hear Aster's opinions on PK's posts unless he still thinks he's a vegging fool.

I'm not sure what "vegging" means, but my opinion on pisskop is very simple: this guy is a troll. Everything he says is NAI and nothing he says is worth reading. His chance of being scum is 3/14. I am no longer going to bother reading anything he says nor react to any of it.

For the purpose of preserving my own sanity, I just wrote a quick script to hide his posts, so I

literally

won't be reading him anymore.

Not exactly the most helpful thing to do from a town perspective though is it? I don't think anyone has enjoyed pisskop's posts but writing a script to ignore him pretty much takes him out of your lynch pool altogether and if your town won't help town in the slightest.

[wilky]

im convinced you want to know to satisfy your own pride, not to gain reads.

suffice to say im sure others see it

Yes that's of course what i'm doing

You said that chip butty and mine's interactions were scum theatre.

When posting your lynch pool Chip Butty was nowhere in it and I was a maybe.

Nothing was posted inbetween that indicated a change of heart from you.

[wilky]

no I said _watch_ it be scumplay. and your reaction is useful so yes im okay spooking you up like this. overreacting is typically indicative of anxiety

reading comprehension please.

I haven't overreacted though. I asked you a question and you ignored it, I asked it again and you pussyfooted around giving an answer.

[wilky]

Not exactly the most helpful thing to do from a town perspective though is it? I don't think anyone has enjoyed pisskop's posts but writing a script to ignore him pretty much takes him out of your lynch pool altogether and if your town won't help town in the slightest.

I don't care. I've seen an entire online community getting single-handedly destroyed by a single troll which the regulars somehow couldn't ignore. I will no longer suffer reading any troll posts, replying to them, or acknowledging their existence. Also, I will not let curiousity get the better of me.

Nothing of value can be gained by reading pisskop's posts. Trolls are going to troll no matter whether they are scum or mafia. If he scumslips, how are you going to know whether he's really scum or just a wannabe jester who wants to make town waste a lynch? He seemed plenty jester-y to me.

If you want to lynch pisskop, I'm fine with that. If he gets close to getting lynched, I am willing to hammer him. However, I am not willing to expend any of my precious sanity on reading his posts.

Surely this goes against your win-con though

[wilky]

Surely this goes against your win-con though

No it doesn't.

Can you tell me one remotely relevant thing pisskop said that I missed out on by not reading it?

Albeit I don't necessarily agree with his views he has started slightly playing the last page or so.

Even if he hasn't said nothing until now who's too say he won't say something in the future. Just simply not having a script written isn't exactly "feeding the troll" either as I said i'd imagine everyone agrees that pisskop has been frustrating to play with doesn't mean we all have him on ignore.

[wilky]

So I just went through different PYP games to see if I could find which one Viomi was in and I couldn't find any. What surprised me more, however, was that I found Creature's name on a player list.

@Creature, how come you haven't told us you've played one of these games before?

I don't see why he would need to tell us he'd played it before? There

could

be some scum intentions behind it but I doubt it tbh.

I do still think creature is scum though.

pisskop flipping town should give more info, hopefully we attack the players that have been coasting a lot (like CityElectric, Lalendra).

Or players that haven't brought the game forward at all or even tried to (like Creature).

VOTE: Creature

[wilky]

I don't like Viomi buddying Chip even more obvious than Creature buddying Mutant.

VOTE: Viomi

[wilky]

Hey guys, when I inevitably get mislynched or NK'd and going through my ISO, remember this: Chip Butty is definitely town.

Consider me pocketed!

I could do a viomi wagon...

Just the reaction I was looking for~
VOTE: Chip

Damn, letting people sheep without reasoning, guys? We're not going to let scum walk over us like that, are we?

Also lmao at CommKnight's OMGUS on me

What's scummy about his response then?

[wilky]

Sure, I'm aways protecting my buddies...

Nice try Scum.

[wilky]

"Viomi's wagon is over" as "I'm ending this wagon"

el oh el

[wilky]

@wilky

I don't like Viomi buddying Chip even more obvious than Creature buddying Mutant.

VOTE: Viomi

Again, if this is your only reason why you think Viomi is scum then your stance here is almost as pathetic as texcat's (whose reasons are that Viomi made a list of reasons why Misa was killed and that she chose the number 1). Viomi made 3 posts that buddied Chip; I haven't counted how many posts Creature has made buddying me but I can tell you it's a lot more than that and has lasted a lot longer as well. So how the fuck you draw the conclusion that Viomi is buddying Chip more obviously than Creature is buddying me I do not know. This reason also feels flawed. Is this really the reason you are voting viomi? And what do you make of the recent hostile exchange between the 2 of them?

Sometimes it's what's in the messages and not how many of them there are. I'm not buying that it was a reaction test either, its furthered my suspicions that my other scum read has jumped straight in to defend him aswell.

[wilky]

@Mutant why the sudden change of heart on Viomi??

[wilky]

And nobody else seemed to think it was unreadable, soooo

Actually I replaced out because it was starting to become unreadable (mostly due to you).
I tried to keep up as much as possible but if i'd blacklist anyone it'd be you due to your constant nonsense posting then shouting READ MY POSTS!!!!!!!111!!!! over and over.