Micro 759: Tarot uPick III - Game Over!

[northsidegal]

hey guys

what's shaking?

[northsidegal]

so dunk and nancy, who's scum?

[northsidegal]

You?

Do I win?

sorry, the cards don't seem to be in your favor.

a few people seemed to be scumreading luv - could someone explain that for me?

[northsidegal]

i asked it more as a "jumping off point", to get discussion started. nobody responded as quickly as i would have hoped, but it's still fine. honestly, there was something i can't really explain about this game reading through that just made my eyes glaze over a bit when reading everything - that's why i wanted to try to sort people starting from my replace in moreso than from reading back through the thread.

[northsidegal]

Indeed, my vote stays on Little Uzi Vert(now Northsidegal) for these reasons... and one additional reasoning(168)

do you think luv's 173 isn't valid?

[northsidegal]

It's because this game lacked any real conflict or passion, imo.
Whenever I catch up on 5+ pages in a game, I always gloss unless there's a really serious conflict happening, and, even then, if it's too verbose, I still skim it.

Basically, this game's been pretty toothless so far.

-V

in the full interest of transparency i didn't have to catch up on the whole thread, i was already following along when i replaced in. i'm not sure how much that changes, though.

[northsidegal]

Well what bothered me about her entrance was that she immediately went to talking about her precedessor which is ??? because it's a very questionable way of reading into anyone's alignments and there's a bunch of mafia motivation there in that you're going to want to defuse scumreads on your slot first and foremost; I've seen newbies do the same thing and it's not a 100% tell but it's definitely not a great way to enter the game.

not entirely true, unless you're talking about my joking copy of luv's entrance. i entered the game by asking people who was scum. you said that i am, so i asked you for how you got that read. you're the one who brought luv up initially, not me – it just so happened that we shared a slot. with that in mind i think it's an entirely reasonable, if not common way of reading into other people's alignments – seeing how people arrive at their conclusions is telling.

[northsidegal]

i promise i'll have more to say later, by the way, when i get the time.

[northsidegal]

VOTE: jabarkas

recent posts are lamist. jabarkas' push has a lot of bark but no bite – nothing is actually accomplished by what he's doing other than projecting the image of "i'm frustrated with the lack of actitvity". explicitly saying that you're pressure voting someone doesn't mean anything, and pushing against lurkers is a great way to look like you're contributing while really not accomplishing much.

[northsidegal]

your post did noting to induce me to action. you seem to have the idea that i'm just making the choice to ignore this game - you couldn't be more wrong. at the moment i'm incredibly busy with real life, but even still i'm spending time playing mafia that i probably shouldn't be. i will post when i get the opportunity. be ostensibly frustrated all you want, but it can't make me less busy. it's not even like this is some kind of long term issue at this point - we have more than a week to deadline and like i said, i'll be less busy in the very near future.

[northsidegal]

nancy, how does frustration make someone an easy target? it already seemed to me like varrsoon was faking - i didn't feel the need to see any more of it.

[northsidegal]

okay, i'm here.

Also, you're literally fucking wrong about the 'raging about the gamestate' bullshit that you're putting out, because it's very obvious within just the last two pages, based on my actions and the reactions of others, that the game state HAS changed dramatically. So, y'know, maybe don't literally deny the reality of the situation in order to spout a platitude to defend a vote you have and give platform to the replace-in who's parroting you and yes-manning your wagon.

what was the dramatic shift in the game state, and what was the reality that keychain was denying? how was i parroting keychain? she's hardly been pushing you as scum very seriously – i didn't even realize that anyone else was voting you. also of note is that i'm pretty sure me and keychain have about the same number of completed games on-site, despite the differences in joindate.

People who make a lot of noise tend to arouse ire.

it's always seemed to me like the most verbose players are always the hardest to lynch.

northsidegal when you have the time could you run me through your thoughts on Varsoon from as early in the game as you had any to now? You're my strongest scumread right now and I haven't seen much from you in the way of thoughts from other players so if you're town here being a little more transparent with where you're at and what your thought process has been on Varsoon and maybe ~1-2 other slots would be very helpful in getting me to see that.

nothing had really stood out to me when i was first following along with the game. that might sound like a cop out, but i analyze games i'm not in less than games that i am in. looking back he's been pushing this idea of pressuring lurkers for a while (186, 200, 207, 212, so on and so on). it wasn't until about page 15 or 16 that it really began to ping me as scummy.

I know how it can be,

but saying "That's how games are; no one really posts anything until 72 hours before deadline hits" reinforces a site meta where that's the case

. As a player and moderator who hates that shit, I'm going to actively stand against it when I have the chance to.

who said anything to that effect?

[northsidegal]

NSG are you saying that you aren't posting because he threatened you?

where'd you get that idea? where did he threaten me? also, no, i wasn't saying that.

My current conundrum is if NSG actually believes in what they're putting forth or if they're just using a level-1 (ostensibly town) approach as an excuse for leading a wagon on what would flip as the first mislynch of the game.

i really don't like this sentence. it's hard to put into words the reasons, but i think everyone should just look at it for a bit.

it feels like such a non-statement. like, "my current conundrum is whether this player is telling the truth, in which case they would be town, or if they're lying, in which case they would be scum."


also, why are you still voting me if you scumread keychain more than me? or was there something that i missed?

[northsidegal]

Bringing up that I mentioned LUV first as an excuse for why you were talking about your slot seems very strange and irrelevant, I mentioned that you were more talkative than LUV which was banter, so I don't understand why that's your deflection? How does me mentioning the person you replaced a few posts prior = you want to talk about him?

i think you're misinterpreting me – i was talking about when you said that i was scum, not you mentioning me replacing luv.

You're very right that looking for reasoning on reads is going to help you sort people, what unnerves me is that this is your first port of call at a point where you're not getting wagoned + it's a very broad/indirect question that helps you least of all given that if you're town you're going to be trying to sort the board and reasoning on other slots than your own offers more in that regard. If there's something I'm not understanding here about your approach to the game, please help me see that?

me looking for reasons on my own slot being scum wasn't anything intentional – like i said, it came from you saying that you scumread me. i would have asked for reasons why no matter who you said. i also think you're putting a lot into very little here. there are really only about two sentences in my iso where i'm talking about luv before people started making the points that you're making.

I don't really find what you've given in 469/470 to be very convincing or helpful in getting a better read on you; if you believe Varsoon is mafia here then how you convince of me that is by showing me your process and not just giving me the end-point of "recent posts feel lamist" or "it feels like such a non-statement", and you're in this game now so you're right that not having thought about it before doesn't mean much. Would also like it if you provided thoughts on players other than Varsoon here since if he is mafia then he has a partner and finding Varsoon scum doesn't solve you the game.

well, two things. first, i think my thought process was pretty clear when it came to why i called his posts lamist. second, my two most recent posts weren't so much meant to be a case on jabarkas, they were meant to help me clarify my read on him.

[northsidegal]

Fuck anyone who thinks it's alignment-indicative to want to play the fucking game of mafia.
Keep that shit up and I'm just going to replace out or some shit, I can't handle that kind of backwards bullshit.

i don't scumread you entirely just for pushing lurkers. a lot of it comes from what seemed to me to be fake frustration / ate. i get that someone calling your frustration not real when you might be legitimately frustrated would just make things worse, but i hope you don't feeel the need to replace out.

[northsidegal]

I can take being lynched over poor play or because people legitimately think that my play is scum play and my lynch helps solve the game, but lynching me just because I want to play the game and I'm trying to amp the game engagement/momentum is really, really, really annoying.

why do you think you're being lynched for the second reason and not the first? everyone voting for you has said that they think you're scum. are you saying that they're lying or just contriving their reasons?

Anyway, Northsidegal, can you answer the questions I posed to you in post 472? I'll restate them here;
Why are you still voting for me? Do you understand where I am coming from about why Keychain's vote on me is a scummy vote and, if so, why are you on a wagon that also features such a poor vote?

my vote is still on you because, for now, i don't see a better place for it to be. i can see where you're coming from in your view on keychain's vote, but i don't entirely agree (i'll talk more about this in a second). also, even if i agreed with you, a bad vote doesn't necessarily make something a bad wagon.

[northsidegal]

okay, when someone's written a mafia seven paragraph essay that doesn't all fit on my screen at once i think it's time for me to take a short break from that particular discussion.

what are people's thoughts on acid?

Yeah probably. I decided I want to lynch acid tho because his claim was desperate. And I think his other power is maf

VOTE: acidpheonix

did you detect something that i didn't from that interaction, or is it that you just think he's lying? what made you call his claim desperate? it didn't seem to me like he was in a whole lot of danger.

[northsidegal]

Or that is just scum Porkens making something up to throw suspicion onto others.

and what gives you that impression?

[northsidegal]

i don't think scum typically have to make things up to place suspicion onto others – usually townies will do something that could reasonably be scumread anyways that they can push. that doesn't mean that it's impossible, just that it doesn't seem like something porkens would feel the need to do as scum.

[northsidegal]

i'm here. it doesn't feel like a lot is happening, so i'm rereading the thread again to try to come up with something myself.

North could easily be scum here. Not sure. @North, what is your read on me?

i can't really say anything conclusive. well, from your posts it seem to me like you're town but experience tells me that i'll proabably have to go a lot more in-depth into that to actually get the truth.

Have you played other games with her during December?
Tons of activity has been lower on-site because of the holiday season.

i shouldn't be too busy because of december, except for a few days. i'll probably have more time, really.

[northsidegal]

i'm feeling energetic right now, somebody talk to me.

[northsidegal]

why'd you claim, acid?

[northsidegal]

It's like people in this game don't care about reading what I had to write and want to just push me for whatever insubstantial NAI reasons they can conjure.

i've read all of your posts. the thing is, they're prohibitively large to really respond to and have a nice discussion about. really – i can understand if you have a lot to say but if you want people to respond and if you want to have a conversation then you should try to condense things for the sake of understanding. also, giving up won't do anything to help you.

[northsidegal]

If the literal reason not to engage with someone is that they're somewhat verbose, that doesn't make them scum.

you keep either mistaking or misrepresenting my opinion on you. where did i say you're scum for your content levels?

[northsidegal]

Lurking and badly explained reads are also not helping town.
VOTE: Northsidegal
I think there are enough of you who scumread North that we can put them at L-1?

i'm not lurking, nor have my reads been badly explained.

[northsidegal]

so i'm having generating content for this game so here's all of the notes that i've taken on everything up until i replaced in.

[northsidegal]

sorry for no post numbers, i had just typed this up for myself. it seems like people are making posts like this anyways, so i want to join in on the trend.

Spoiler:

Micro 759 - Tarot uPick

29 - jabarkas opens up with some heavy mechanical talk on the reasons for why voice messages are bad. NAI.

57 - kind of strange thought from dreal, the idea that voicing your townreads gets them killed. i think it could come from either alignment, but might be some townpoints.

71 - porkens jokingly says that he wants jabarkas dead. something to take note of.

87 to 88 is an interaction to perhaps look at. porkens being sensitive to the question of vigs might indicate something, just like back in 1821 with cheeky.

95 - basically the same as 29 from jabarkas.

103 - this is weird, from dreal. why scumread someone for not realizing that the game has started? The justification in 107 doesn’t really make sense.

111 - beginning of porkens’ pink text.

[redacted]

.

138 - i like keychain as usual, but i’m not sure if i can trust that.

141 - it’s pretty sharp, i actually like the rationale from Jabarkas.

157 and 160 - weird, cryptic comments from dreal and porkens. i doubt this really means anything.

161 - nk15 entirely misses the point of what porkens was saying.

162 - going to try to look at keychain’s posts harder than normal, i’ll probably need to. she questions dreal on the inconsistency between him saying that nancy sounded sad that she rolled scum but nancy also saying that she preferred scum. this seems like a non-sequitur from what she was saying before and also seems to rely on nancy telling the truth. either way, i’m not sure what’s gained from it.

hm, this is interesting – i don’t have a problem with keychain disagreeing about rqs but her saying that she doesn’t like “casting disagreements at this stage” sounds scummy.

166 - nk15 is incredibly abrasive. it’s weird, i don’t think i recall

[redacted]

.

179 - nancy’s a lot more verbose here than

[redacted]

. i also don’t really remember this compares to how she played back from that one game i read where she was in it, where aristo was scum and won.

i’m not sure why she would think dreal would fabricate a scumread on her as scum.

181 - agreeing with porkens here.

182 - really, really weird response here from nk15. i honestly have no idea how to interpret this. it’s probably safer to lean scum on it.

199 - okay, back to keychain. she doesn’t explain her scumread on porkens here, i should remember to ask her about that.

204 - i have trouble actually reading what nancy is saying here, but i’m pretty sure i agree.

217 - this’ll be ironic to come back to if it’s an admission.

226 - i’m not used to acid being this lurky in games except for

[redacted]

– not really sure how to interpret it.

252 seems like a really towny thing to notice. i’m not sure if i would have ever said something like that as scum. town points to dunk for it.

257 - keychain explains the scumread that i was looking at earlier. i’m not really agreeing with her scumread but i doubt that it’s faked or anything.

266 - jabarkas takes nancy’s 265 seriously? it seems obvious that she was joking. might be some self-consciousness / hyper-awareness.

271 - keychain’s posts always seem like reading a letter or something, to me. there’s the comment at the very top, the quotes and responses and then the signature at the end.

277 - i should probably go back to donner party and reread day one, see where i went wrong.

279 - agreeing pretty much exactly here.

297 - i see this opinion from newbies a whole lot (and a little bit in myself, really), where people who don’t explain everything are scum. inevitably they’ll always waste their time tunneling someone like transcend. nk15 seems to be going a bit more in every direction this game, though.

[northsidegal]

northsidegal why are there redactions in your notes post?

they're things i either can't talk about or think it would be a good idea to keep to myself.

VOTE: northsidegal

Really struggling here. 642 came across as pretty fake to me though, on top of my previous tentative scumread.


-Key

what about it seems fake? why do you think i would fake that as scum?

[northsidegal]

northsidegal I suggest you not use redactions in the future, they're not helpful for anyhing. If you can't talk about something then don't try to talk about it. In this case it looks a lot to me like you're using them to make it seem like you have more thoughts than you really do and I know the redaction about me in particular cannot be anything but fake.

i thought i made it clear that i had copy pasted the notes i took for myself on this game – i can copy paste some i've taken previously for previous games if you don't believe that it's something that i do. i didn't write them specifically to post, i just thought it would be a good way to start a conversation that i could be a part of. i suppose i could have just entirely deleted the sentences for things that i couldn't talk about but i think some of the thoughts remain relevent even if specifics aren't mentioned.

[northsidegal]

i'm not sure if i said what i wanted to say there but basically i had to redact things because of the difference between when i'm the only one reading my personal notes and when i'm posting them.

[northsidegal]

what makes it fake to you? there's an explanation that would probably seem stupid if i told you – i honestly probably should have just gotten rid of or redacted that whole sentence.

[northsidegal]

i was serious when i said that i can't talk about them or that it would be a bad idea – really, i wouldn't have redacted them otherwise. why post all of my thoughts like that and then redact something random without a good reason?

what are your thoughts outside of the redacted things?

[northsidegal]

You said there was an explanation, no? I am saying I don't believe it's possible you had a good reason to make that redaction there.

but you think i had good reasons to make the redactions elsewhere?

[northsidegal]

If you're referring to ongoing games or some SUPER SECRET PERSONAL META notes that you're not going to share because you've learned SECRET TELLS THE LIKES OF WHICH YOU CAN'T SHARE, yeah, sure, whatever, but
Honestly, in a game, the only content that is valuable is content from that game itself. Everything else is external, imo. If someone can't justify a position based solely on content from the game at hand, then the justification doesn't really stand.

-V

what point are you trying to make? the things i said were never meant to be cases on people in the first place – they were the notes i took for myself.

[northsidegal]

nk15, only two people can be scum this game – you've pretty much called everyone in the game scum at one point or another. if you're going to say that i'm scum and that there's one scum on your wagon then you have to accept that there are three townies. like, calling everyone scum doesn't make any useful distinction and doesn't do much to convince me or anyone else of what you're saying.

[northsidegal]

i also don't really want to lynch nk15 here, at least right now. i'd like to talk to keychain a bit more.

also, shooting me is a bad idea, just mechanically. a vig should shoot within null reads that are unlikely to get lynched, not always directly in scumreads.

pedit – i'd like to wait, even just a bit longer, and especially if i'm going to be dead tomorrow.

[northsidegal]

well, nk15 is saying that i should be vigged and if i'm dying then i'd like to at least talk to keychain before one of us is potentially killed.

[northsidegal]

Yetichain also could just be bad town in this game rather than scum. Need more informations.

what would be bad town about keychain's play this game?

will respond to more later

[northsidegal]

yeah, that's the question i was really trying to ask – i was looking moreso for something in specific.

[northsidegal]

Northsidegal,

It’s very nice to play with you again

you too!

So I was sitting here reading nancy and drealz and I thought “how can I insert myself into that”? Because it seemed like real, actual communication, and I felt a pang of “I could go for some of that”!

Are you playing differently than you did in that newbie? I remember you coming across differently.

well, i may not be playing differently but the content of my posts is certainly different. i've been thinking about that one newbie game a lot lately because i feel like i impressed people there and people (including myself) have noticed lately that i've been different from there. i think what really let me shine that game was that it ended up being more of a puzzle than a game of mafia. things were a lot more obvious, not only because of the setup but also because of the players.

i still don't think my play is entirely different than that game – keep in mind that it's still only day one today. everything that you're likely thinking of from that game came after we had a lot more information to work with.

Why did you wait so long to hammer in that game I replaced in as scum?

i'm just scared of messing things up i suppose, and i felt like i should try to gather as much information as possible. that game also lent itself to people lurking, for whatever reason.

How could I have played that better?

i really don't think you could have done much to change that game – you replaced into what was basically a doomed slot. even still, i've noticed that i naturally tend to townread people with nice explanations and people who i've played with often.

Why are you playing differently?

Is it school? Finals? Or is there more?


-porkens

i already answered this a bit earlier, but i don't think i am that much. my

content

is different because i find what i have to work with harder to take on, but i'd say i'm playing the game the same way i was before. i might be busier coming up but i don't think it should affect my play all that much.

[northsidegal]

i started typing a post more than half an hour ago but i got distracted, sorry. one second.

[northsidegal]

I have no doubt that you would be meticulous as scum and those are very well notes you could have made. It's that opening the hood, in a way, trying to show the thought process underneath feels odd from you and not an approach I would expect if you were town.

Another reason that I've found hard to articulate is that you've seen me play as town and I don't believe you've mentioned the fact that I'm playing very differently. I just got prodded, for chrissakes. The fact that you're somehow drawing parallels to my usual play feels like you're not recognising those differences in your notes. I know that I view playstyles very differently when I'm playing town or scum, making it hard to apply knowledge across alignments, and I've been lynched as scum before for it so I remember the lesson. You've only ever been town in games with me.

i think this is a product of you being far more aware in how you're playing compared to other games than i ever could be. like, to me it seems like the only huge difference between this game and what your normal play is like has been the lurking.

This observation probably wouldn't have been as meaningful to me if you hadn't indicated in your notes that you were considering our past games. It's always an exercise in ego to assume someone knows your meta well enough to recognise you're town, but I don't understand why you aren't more suspicious of me here.

You seem to be approaching me somewhat shallowly and it feels more like buddying than anything. Can't remember, were you scumreading me at any point, can you link any posts?

could you talk more specifically about how different you've been this game as compared to previous ones? like i said, i really don't see a huge difference outside of the recent activity, which doesn't seem alignment-indicative to me. plus, i think i've seen an equal amount of games where you've been scum as you have been town – i still don't think i could reliably distinguish between the two. i don't think i've ever expressed a scumread on you in-thread but in my notes i think there's something there.

[northsidegal]

Okay so where does that leave me?

Yetichain
NK15

Porkens
nancy
acidphoenix

---

Dunkers
drealmerz7

Jabarkas
North


Something like this, I think. Off the top of my head.

nancy, what would you define as content? I can go further into my reads if you like. In doing so they'll probably shift around.

it's not lovers, it's loved – one more vote to lynch.

[northsidegal]

oops, ignore that quote. first time that's happened to me. that was @dreal

[northsidegal]

[northsidegal]

@ffery i'll have limited access until about friday

why are we waiting on acid, by the way?

[northsidegal]

yeah i saw that, but it seems all discussion is stopped just to wait for him. i mean, a scum flip day one – certainly we can talk about that in the meantime, right?

[northsidegal]

i also think dunk is scum for reasons unrelated to the jk or any sort of role actions.

[northsidegal]

i also think dunk is scum for reasons unrelated to the jk or any sort of role actions.

In other words, for his posts?

something like that – just didn't want people to take me the wrong way.

I can't stop you and it's testing my patience too but it will be easier to get a read on him if the waters aren't muddied and he's coming in cold, so would prefer not to give him any queues and see where he's at before moving forward. Also, other secret reasons that I'll talk about when I go over where I'm at with reads.

so, as acid says, for ~reasons~?

alright then, i'll trust you on that.

[northsidegal]

Take you the wrong way?

to assume that i was just referring to the jailkeeper thing.

[northsidegal]

quick thoughts – i think yetichain is almost certainly town here, same with porkens. if yeti and jm were teamed i don't see why she votes him at the end of the day yesterday. for porkens, i don't think jm would get as frustrated as he did if it was his partner voting him. i think dunk is scum, however, and it goes along with that last point. compare these two interactions:

Spoiler: reaction to porkens

I'm going to offer this alternative:

VOTE: Jabarkas Mayonnaise

Reason: Masterminding.

Evidence: Every post.

Theory: Scum trying to use his cache to lynch easy newbs.

Full disclosure:

redacted

Aight then.
Nevermind that most the players in this game have 2017 joindates, homie.
Or that I'm trying to actually figure shit out rather than just making easy newb-lynch pushes.
But ayy fuck me, right?

-V

Like, if you're going to jump on my back and give me shit for fucking playing the game and accuse me of masterminding or some dumb bullshit like that when, otherwise, no one was really fucking playing the game, fuck you.
Seriously, legitimately, fuck you.
Fuck anyone who thinks it's alignment-indicative to want to play the fucking game of mafia.
Keep that shit up and I'm just going to replace out or some shit, I can't handle that kind of backwards bullshit.

-V

I've literally been pushing two players so far and neither of those pushes have been with full intent to lynch, but, rather, using my vote as pressure while I try to figure out the game.
It's really annoying, as a player, to sign up for a game, then because I want to play the game, to be potentially removed from that game because people think wanting to play the game is scummy.
That shit drives me up a wall.

-V

Spoiler: reactions to dunk

VOTE: Jabarkus
voting here for now

Could you elaborate, or are you just jumping on the largest wagon because...?


-V

Could you elaborate, or are you just jumping on the largest wagon because...?


-V

just want to change things up a little

I'm fairly certain literally every player has voiced a willingness to vote me/scumread me so far today.
So, like, let's just get that shit over, I guess.

-V

VOTE: dunkerdoodles

[northsidegal]

Don't think the EoD vote on Varsoon is clearing since they were pretty much forced to vote him there or look very badly for it given that they they had stated him as their 2nd strongest scumread and I messaged them privately and asked them to vote him.

ah, hadn't seen this. while i think scum keychain still could've somehow justified not moving the vote there, i'll definitely go back and look at day one in more depth then.

[northsidegal]

nancy, what about 1178 doesn't make sense if nk15 is town?

[northsidegal]

i'm not claiming anything.

[northsidegal]

just citing a few quotes that look like partner interactions is super unconvincing and hard to believe that you've gone through Jabarkas ISO and that's your biggest take there and you have nothing else to say about it or the game right now.

alright, then.

the main question i wanted answered that i was alluding to earlier was what dunk was implying in 494 – he said that he has information that may make jm more likely to be scum. i've never made any pretense towards having a comprehensive case nor towards this being my biggest take on anything, but based on the interactions i cited, the way he played day one and a slight process of elimination, i think dunk is scum.

also, i don't think what i quoted is worth discounting. if we're assuming that jm was legitimately getting angry (which i am and i think is prudent), i think his lack of a reaction at dunk's vote is meaningful. he would know that his partner is voting him with some kind of ulterior motive and not because of whatever reason he was getting mad about, so he either wouldn't get angry like he would if a townie voted him, or he would have to fake anger to keep it consistent.

[northsidegal]

Why do you think that Varsoon was faking being upset when his emotion was pretty clearly real in twilight? I don't think the frustration that Varsoon displayed throughout the game was faked, his anger was pretty categorical and irrational and I'm not entirely sure that it would matter what alignment was pushing him.

where did i say that?

How do you reconcile Dunker being mafia with him coming up with a super obscure reason why his partner may be mafia "or he's dumb"? That seems like a very bizarre thing to say about your partner but is a pretty natural thought to have as town. How do you reconcile Dunker being mafia with his jump onto the Jabarkas wagon at his first opportunity? How is he not just putting himself in autoloss?

huh? why is the first thing so unbelievable to you? i'm not necessarily sure if it's dunker's style to do so, but i've definitely seen it before where scum will soft at some sort of conclusion early for flexibility or strength in fakeclaims later. dunk's vote on jabarkas (at the end of the day, that is) comes completely out of nowhere without any previously stated scumread. in fact, previously he had said that me and jabarkas was tvt. i'm not certain as to what his thought process was but if there was a vote that looked like bussing then i would say that one would be it.

You've cited 549 from Varsoon as part of the Dunker interaction but that's in response to me and is followed by Varsoon getting very upset. You've also not cited 1009, do you not think it's relevant?

1009 is not relevant, no. i'm glad you pointed that out about 549, though, i think i meant to quote your post for that interaction – notice how varsoon only gets upset after it's you who comes back with the scumread on him as compared to his reaction when dunk votes him.

[northsidegal]

You've said Varsoon would have to fake anger towards a scumbud in order to be consistent; I think if his anger is real then he's going to be feeling it regardless of who votes him. He clearly thinks through the whole game that any votes on him are wrong and mostly garbage. He seemed to genuinely believe that I was scumreading him for null behavior. When you're not really connected to reality in those kinds of ways I think it's pretty likely that it will extend to everything, including a partner voting you. I have gotten angry at scumpartners before and displayed that openly in the game thread. Only once or twice, but I'm nowhere near the kind of ragey player that Varsoon is. So I'm trying to understand why you think that's a thing that he'd have to fake.

You don't think that Dunker bussing Jabarkas there is an act of suicide or you think Dunker just made a horrible play?

he thought that the reasons that people were voting him were garbage – given that he knows his scumbuddy isn't actually voting him for those reasons, it makes sense to me that he wouldn't get as angry. i don't doubt that scum could get angry at their partner bussing them, but i think that would happen in an entirely different context to this one – probably when someone's partners are a player when that player really thinks it isn't necessary, or that it's bad play, or so on.

1009 is not relevant, no.

Why not?

why is it relevant, to you?

[northsidegal]

Sure, that makes sense, but he didn't think the votes were bad just because he thought the reasoning was bad, he thought they were bad because he just wanted to play the game. He was very adamant about this point. A partner bussing him would prevent him from playing the game and therefore also arouse his ire, no?

it seemed pretty obvious to me that dunk's vote would probably be moving off of him pretty quickly, so it should have been

crystal clear

to jabarkas.

I asked you first!

Please answer the question about Dunker bussing; willful suicide or Dunker so bad he doesn't realize he can't win without Varsoon?

i don't know where you're coming from on it being relevant so i don't know what to say towards the negative. i just don't see the meaning. he's mentioning dunk but i don't see any sort of indication of association.

i have no clue. i'm hesitant to call people bad but i also doubt that dunk would throw the game like that, although his completely naked l-1 vote certainly reminds me of what it looks like when people have either been caught or given up. perhaps there's more going on than we know.

[northsidegal]

Why should it have been crystal clear to him in particular? If it was, doesn't that make sense as a possible reason why he didn't explode at Dunker?

that was in the context of them being partners.

1009 is a post where Varsoon gets angry at Dunker, which you've said the absence of is a reason why they're partners.

the absence of a reaction when dunk first votes jabarkas is mainly what i'm pointing to. varsoon gets angry there at dunker because he was getting angry at the people who got onto his wagon at the very last minute. i'm sure that either his reaction there is actually one of anger (like i said before, when you get bussed as scum when it's not necessary), or jabarkas still realized in his anger that it would be strange of him to not mention dunk.

[northsidegal]

So anyway, Dunker is mafia and that's it? We should all sheep you?

[northsidegal]

So anyway, Dunker is mafia and that's it? We should all sheep you?

???

i mean, maybe it's just because of the textual medium but i don't get the ... "attitude", i suppose? i've never made any pretense towards having this game entirely solved and everyone else just not realizing

The Truth

™, but your question seems to imply that that's how i'm acting. is that how i come off? if so, i apologize. dunk being scum is just a read i have, just like any other. i'd like to interact with him and wait a bit to see how things play out to refine the read and i'd like to hear other people's thoughts, so i guess to answer your original question – no. that isn't it, and nobody has to sheep me.

[northsidegal]

You don't come off as anything which is what concerns me, you've stated a scumread on Dunker but not really done anything towards pushing him,

in what way? i've stated my case on dunk – he hasn't even been around since that, so what exactly do you expect me to be doing?

you don't seem to have any other reads, I've dug into your Dunker read quite a bit and your reasoning there is all over the place and looks very selective in terms of what you're reading into to arrive at the scumread, I'd expect if you had this kind of read as town where your reasoning wasn't very sound but you really believed in it to overcome that and work yourself into the read then you'd be a lot more of sure where you're at right now but I'm seeing pretty much nothing from you.

i resent this.

[northsidegal]

also, i've quite clearly stated other reads in 1108.

[northsidegal]

i am asking myself those questions, i have answers to them, and i do care about this game. it's clear to me that i take a much more restrained or closed approach than you do when it comes to revealing my thought process.

[northsidegal]

porkens both of those quotes (from newbie 1828 and open 700, for those who aren't familiar) were from situations where the game was reduced to basically a puzzle. i don't think they're comparable to the situation we're at right now.

nancy, i'm sorry if i'm disappointing you. hopefully by the end of this game i can either change that, or sometime later we can play in a game where i start off a bit better.

[northsidegal]

actually... maybe this game is comparable to newbie 1828. let me think about that for a bit.

[northsidegal]

i thought a little bit about how to solve the game. outside of just reguar poe, it would require that everyone believes that garaputo is town.

North
For the reasons from last day, their refusal to claim anything, not even having visited me

why is refusing to claim anything a scumread?


also, in a little bit of a twist, i'd be in favor of a massclaim.

[northsidegal]

I'm all for solving the game, and can easily be convinced I'm town. Tell me more.

there's only one scum left and you're a jailkeeper. if there are even a few people that everyone can agree is town then the game can quite easily be poed through lynches and jailkeeping, perhaps made even easier by people's roles.

[northsidegal]

dunk, could you say what you were talking about in 494?

[northsidegal]

North your lack of reaction to my vote makes me sad. Your 1289 also seems like you're trying to mimic your towngame more than you're trying to play, if that makes sense.

well, most of your post wan't even talking about me. what is it about the case on me that you agree with? i'll admit that being reminded of 1828 made me think that the same plan might work here – the reason i'm thinking back to it is because i think it could actually work here.

[northsidegal]

don't forget that yeti also has a possible explanation for the no-kill.

[northsidegal]

i thought that you already knew that her other explanation was the hider thing, right?

[northsidegal]

garaputo, target two people for jailing tonight.

[northsidegal]

northsidegal he needs to be confirmed targeting only one player so that if he dies that player is confirmed town (except in the case of Yetichain who could potentially be a mafia roleblocker, hence the need for an investigative as well so that it's impossible for both of them to be roleblocked; there's realistically never a third roleblocker in the setup of either alignment so that's the only slot that needs to be targeted by both in order to be cleared). And while my scumread on Yetichain is pretty weak at this point I think that's the only slot that's capable of actually winning this game as mafia and would like to eliminate any possibility of a mafia win here.

huh? how does him targeting two people (not yeti) not confirm those people as town if he dies, as opposed to just one? also, what's the point in both jailing yeti and investigating her?

[northsidegal]

i can hammer whenever.

[northsidegal]

i just don't see any other world in which it's not within {dreal, dunker}. like, maybe i'm coming at this from too simple a perspective but that just seems like it to me.

VOTE: drealmerz, l-1

[northsidegal]

then what stopped the kill last night? if yeti is scum, did she really shoot for dunker?

[northsidegal]

VOTE: dunkerdoodles

[northsidegal]

it doesn't seem like the woman of crystals is still in play but it does seem like you still have a doublevote, given that 8 votes seem to be in play from the vote count.

[northsidegal]

UNVOTE:

actually, let's not rush through this.

[northsidegal]

i think i hate role madness games.

[northsidegal]

I confirm that.

you investigated garaputo?

[northsidegal]

i don't see a point in keeping it secret anymore – i'm an evolving gift giver. night one i could give someone the woman of crystals. i didn't know what it would do, but i was told it was something good to receive. night two i could motivate someone to target two people with whatever action they could take, which i did not use.

[northsidegal]

i had nothing to do last night. as of now, i am essentially vanilla town.

[northsidegal]

perhaps the thing that nancy was talking about? yeti thought that a possible explanation for the no-kill could be that scum thought nk15 softed hiding behind dunk and so shot for dunk, so that could've just been her describing her own thought process, however unlikely that may seem.

i really feel like it's necessary for me at this point to go back through the entire thread again to try to recalibrate because we've already been so wrong going off of night actions, but at the same time it also feels like that's just it – the game is just solved for me from night actions.

[northsidegal]

And there is the LUV scuminess Day 1 (don't overlook this:NSG replaced LUV Day 1!).
Then there is the point that the vote on Jarbakas is not as exonerating as it looks- it was the last vote for a longer time until Nancy suddenly revived the wagon on Jarbakas.
The wagon got to L-1 before North came back. At that point, the removal of the vote would have been scummy, especially as they had just been at L-1 before and as they had openly scumread jarbakas about a week ago quite strongly.
The vote by North was an old vote that was

about ten days old

.

i'm not sure why you seem to take this as a point against me – it means that i didn't move my vote off of him

up until deadline.

[northsidegal]

nk15, can you claim?

[northsidegal]

oops! sorry, for some reason i thought when you posted that whole night interactions chart that you were "unknown" on there.

unless jabarkas was a ninja just for the wifom or just for however nk15's role works, it seems to me like setup spec says porkens is town, with the ninja being sort of a guilty. perhaps that's an errant conclusion to draw in a game like this, however – it's going off of normal game logic (and i mean that in the normal guidelines definition of "normal game").

[northsidegal]

what even is a revenant, anyways?

[northsidegal]

is that what let him give someone his vote after he died?

[northsidegal]

more rolespec / setup spec – i'm slowly moving nk15 out of my lynchpool (surprisingly) and moving acid in. assuming he's telling the truth, nk15's role seems thematically consistent with jabarkas' having the ability to effect the game after his death, although i'm not sure how much weight a flipped scum's words would have in a neighborhood, unless there's also some self-janitor aspect to it. again, that's all assuming he's been telling the truth, which from the day one reaction to acid's claim i'm inclined to believe.

[northsidegal]

i'm not really sure i got the why as to the "moving out of the lynchpool" part of that post clear, so the reason is that i believe that he's telling the truth about his role, and that role doesn't seem to make sense as a scum role.

also, i made a huge mistake not targeting nk15 with my motivation, if just to check that the self-aware ascetic part of the claim wasn't a lie (although, if nk15 were lying about his role i would imagine that, if not the neighborizer part, the ascetic part would still be true if he were scum).

[northsidegal]

@yeti could you clairfy on how you were neighborized by nancy and when?

[northsidegal]

according to yeti we at least know that a roleblocking aspect of garaputo's role is confirmed. it's still possible that he's scum, however. for some more completely baseless setup spec, however, jailkeeper seems like a role i wouldn't expect in this game – most have been fairly non-standard/non-vanilla, with perhaps the exception of rolecop.

[northsidegal]

sorry if this posting style bothers anyone, i'm just trying to get all of my thoughts out there on an absolute mess of information of a game.

[northsidegal]

in terms of non-setup spec reads, nk15 was pretty bad yesterday and ignoring my thoughts in the past few minutes i would definitely want him as the lynch.

[northsidegal]

I see no point in delaying telling everyone that my X in X-shot was 2.

I confirm that.

how did you confirm this? how much information do you receive from your investigations?

[northsidegal]

Design the roles based on all three cards- This happens BEFORE the random alignment assignment. This means that any Significator card can be any alignment, and any Role based on the cards can be any alignment.

cards don't mean anything in terms of alignment, and my setup spec on the rolecop / ninja is probably meaningless, meaning porkens could definitely still be scum.

can anyone who's in a neighborhood / been in a neighborhood claim what went on there?

[northsidegal]

more rolespec / setup spec – i'm slowly moving nk15 out of my lynchpool (surprisingly) and moving acid in. assuming he's telling the truth, nk15's role seems thematically consistent with jabarkas' having the ability to effect the game after his death, although i'm not sure how much weight a flipped scum's words would have in a neighborhood, unless there's also some self-janitor aspect to it. again, that's all assuming he's been telling the truth, which from the day one reaction to acid's claim i'm inclined to believe.

would a postdeath neighborizer be left in or be rebalanced? not sure, although i'm still a bit conflicted: the day one counterclaim to acid seems townie to me, but a lot of the rest doesn't.

[northsidegal]

ah, i was misremembering this quote:

Can confirm garaputo neighbourised me last night.

so in terms of confirmation all we know is the neighborizing part, not necessarily the jailkeeping part.

[northsidegal]

From that alone, Porkens and NK15 are probably most likely partners, followed by North, and finally gara.

to clarify, your gara read comes mostly from poe and others being more likely to be partnered than gara being

less

likely to be partnered, correct? that's the sense i got from your post.

[northsidegal]

over the course of the past 24 hours or so i've utterly destroyed every read that i had coming into this day.

[northsidegal]

I am having a hard time integrating these two posts. Could you also clarify the underlined part?

nk15's play the entire game and yesterday especially seems scummy to me. like, he's just been scummy the entire game but other, nightaction related things have taken our attention away from him. at the same time, the way in which he initially "counterclaimed" acid seems really townie to me, which is why i'm conflicted. i was also just reading a bit of day 2 and nancy had a point about the end of day 1 wagons and jabarkas' vote with relation to nk15, something i'm looking more at now.

[northsidegal]

if porkens is scum then was jabarkas faking anger in response to porkens' vote?

pedit will look at that and respond to it in a second probably

[northsidegal]

@NSG - were you asking in general, asking me, or just thinking aloud?

I get the sense that the anger/frustration from jabarkas was not faked. I also got the impression that it was more than one player/slot that jabarkas was angry with. I think NK15 points out that this may not be alignment indicative of the people jabarkas was angry with.

just thinking aloud there. i know i already made this point with dunkerdoodles and it turned out to be wrong, but when we look at jabarkas' reaction, we need to consider the possibilites of whether his partner bussed or not, and how his reaction may have been different towards his scumbuddy.

North, did you say why you sent me the Woman of Crystals, and did you have any opinions on the fact that I didn't claim it?

Also I'm surprised that you'd not submit a night action.

i townread you a lot after jabarkas flipped from the day one interactions – take a look at my first real content-filled post of day two. i'm currently ambivalent on the fact that you didn't claim it, and it's something i should probably give more thought to. the fact that you didn't seem to use it scummily or to get a quickhammer or something doesn't mean a lot to me – you could presume that some other player in the game was the cause for you having it and thus knew you were in control, and so even if you tried to counterclaim me and say that i was the one controlling it, we'd likely have enough lynches left that we could just lynch both of us to figure it out, losing you the game if you're scum.

i am too – i think it was the weird new year's deadline that threw me off. i didn't have any idea for who i wanted to motivate anyways, and i don't think it would have done anything.

[northsidegal]

by the way, is anyone else thinking more and more that scum have just been no-killing? if you have alternative explanations i'd like to hear them.

[northsidegal]

is 1735 a scumclaim or something?

[northsidegal]

i don't have a single townread as of now.

porkens, were you reaction testing when you called yeti locktown?

[northsidegal]

so you've moved from yeti being locktown to her being scum from 1710 to 1735?

[northsidegal]

here ill offer this: vote for NK15 and ill hammer.

then you can kill garup tonight and convice nsg to lynch me tomorrow based on this exchange.

ok?

the paranoia is so real.

[northsidegal]

Paranoid of me or Porkens? Also North who's your preference for lynching today?

paranoia of you. i think i'd prefer to lynch porkens.

[northsidegal]

Why him?

at the end of the day i don't think nk15 does his "counterclaim" as scum and porkens' vote seems the most likely to be a bus from the day one wagon.

[northsidegal]

Okay, fair. Why not garaputo and I? You said you have no townreads.

if you mean "why don't i want you guys lynched", it's because i have more concrete reasons for scumreading porkens than i do either of you. if you mean "why don't i townread you guys", for you it's paranoia and the fact that the jailings may have been consistent with you being scum, and for garaputo it's because he's the source of the entire jailkeeping thing and i think it's not impossible that he just intentionally no-killed / jailed people when it wouldn't allow him to use his factional action in order to dodge any potential trackers (like jabarkas mentioned probably existed after his lynch).

[northsidegal]

intent to hammer porkens later today

[northsidegal]

why does nk15 try to trap people in asking if they visited him before he claims if he's scum? that entire day two interaction doesn't read anything like a lone scum who just had their partner lynched and is looking like the day two wagon.

[northsidegal]

i don't think acid ever explained why he targeted dunker.

[northsidegal]

would porkens as scum target dunker after his vt claim?

i'm thinking more and more that it's garaputo. i just don't see any other reasonable explanation for the no-kills, and acid's associatives with jabarkas were terrible. also, i could believe that jabarkas would just give his vote to his scumbuddy, ignoring (or perhaps embracing?) wifom.

[northsidegal]

man, one day before deadline was not the time to do this.

[northsidegal]

I mean porkens could do that, it did have some impact on dunker being lynched (at least it helped get my vote). I just think that if porkens is just pretending to try and solve the game, the acting is pretty convincing.

Alas, it's not me. I think that you are doing a pretty good job of also convincing me it's not you right now though.

i don't mean him claiming his result (which i would expect him to do as either alignment), i'm wondering if porkens as scum even investigates dunker in the first place. granted, i think the only person who hadn't claimed or hinted at at least some part of their role was me, but still.

also, what's the explanation for the no-kills if nk15 or porkens is scum? the only explanations for the no-kill

no matter who the last mafia is

are: scum targeted dunker night one, scum deliberately no-killed, or scum cannot use their role and perform the factional kill simultaneously.

the first one seems unrealistic for anyone as scum for me to discard it as a possibility.

scum deliberately no-killing is also unrealistic but it's at the least worth considering, and it's also the only explanation for nk15 or porkens being scum, given the next point.

if scum cannot use their role and perform the factional kill simultaneously, that points straight to garaputo. porkens was a novice role cop meaning that he couldn't use his role night one, and i don't think nk15's role actually targets anyone (correct me if i'm wrong). we have confirmation that acid targeted dunker from dunker saying that a neighborhood was created.




night two we again have confirmation that garaputo targeted someone, we also know that porkens targeted someone, and we know that no-kill was performed. not really sure there's any new information or conclusions to be drawn here.

night three we know that garaputo no longer had any jailkeeping shots and we also know that this was the first night with a nightkill. porkens definitely wasn't lying about dunker's role so i assume that he wasn't lying about his investigation this night, meaning that we can take it that he used his action tonight. if we assume that porkens is scum, it means that scum must have the ability to use their role and perform the factional kill in the same night. if that's true, then porkens must have deliberately no-killed two nights in a row. does he do that? i'm not sure, but i doubt it.

---

that's a lot of words to come to the conclusion that we really already knew that if porkens or nk15 is scum, they no-killed for two nights in a row. it also shows something that hadn't really occurred to me before, that if scum can't use their roles and kill simultaneously that garaputo's night actions are consistent with him being scum.

[northsidegal]

oh, there's no chance i let this day end in a no-lynch. i'm just thinking about how i'm not liking either of my options here really.

[northsidegal]

if scum cannot use their role and perform the factional kill simultaneously, that points straight to garaputo. porkens was a novice role cop meaning that he couldn't use his role night one, and i don't think nk15's role actually targets anyone (correct me if i'm wrong). we have confirmation that acid targeted dunker from dunker saying that a neighborhood was created.

hm, just realized this point isn't as clear as i'd like it to be.

let's assume scum can't kill and use their roles simultaneously:

porkens is a novice rolecop (assuming he isn't lying), meaning that he didn't use his role night one, so why wasn't there a kill?
nk15's role doesn't target people (i think?), so why wasn't there a kill?
garaputo targeted someone, so that would explain why there wasn't a kill.

[northsidegal]

okay, yeah, just checked and nk15's role doesn't target anyone (assuming he's telling the truth).

[northsidegal]

so, in the world where acid is scum, why would he jailkeep someone night one instead of killing? the thought just occurred to me: earlier in the day he was asking for someone to chat with (ie someone to neighborize). at that point in the game he probably expected that, going into night one, his partner would still be alive and would be performing the kill (given that jabarkas was a ninja). again assuming that scum can't kill and use their action in the same night, i think it would be kind of a large point of suspicion against acid if he didn't end up targeting someone night one, given how much he had talked about it.

ehh, maybe i'm confbiasing myself on this one, but i hope not.

[northsidegal]

faking a guilty is another potential reason, and so is avoiding the tracker that jabarkas mentioned in his dying rant, although those points aren't garaputo specific.

i was looking at this post for nk15:

Ok...
Only claiming my card(s) on further request:

I am a
1.self-sensing ascetic. I know what is intended to hit me at night, and last night no one visited. Sadly, no one fell for the trap and claimed visiting me.
2.Dead-Neighbourizer. If you look back at my ISO when I was about to be hammered I made some posts related to that (1. Dunker 2.No contribution=sus)
Dead-Neighbourizer means that I neighbourize someone upon my own death.

Why do you think massclaim helps town here?

Because Jarbakas( who was scum) didn't want a massclaim, and I think that indicates that scum have to lose something to a massclaim. Whether it is info or sth else, dunno.

i don't think there's anything here about targeting people.

[northsidegal]

although avoiding a tracker is still kind of an acid/garaputo specific thing – given that porkens is novice and nk15 doesn't target anyone, both of them would only be seen targeting one player. even if that player was the nightkill it might still be reasonably explained by some role. if acid was tracked while jailing someone, however, he would have been tracked to two different people, which would probably confirm him as scum.

i'm not really sure that's something acid would have thought about though, and if acid made a kill i wouldn't see why he would jail anybody anyways, given that we didn't really have any roleclaims. we know that he had limited shots, so maybe this point is meaningless in that if acid was killing he wouldn't have jailed anyone in the first place.

[northsidegal]

okay.

VOTE: garaputo

[northsidegal]

by the way, has anyone actually asked ffery if scum could do the two things simultaneously? if not,

@mod could scum perform the factional kill and use any role actions they might have simultaneously?

[northsidegal]

i read this as more of a saving throw of wifom than someone so convinced that nk15 is scum that he'd self vote. the strength of the read expressed here:

Something about Porkens play makes me think they are actively trying to puzzle out the game. Same with Yeti. Today I've strongly felt NK15 is basically like "lynch not me, but I don't care whom" which isn't exactly what I'd expect from someone who can die and still win the game.

is not consistent with the strength of a read that you'd be willing to die for if town sheeps you on.

[northsidegal]

huh, just realized that i've been assuming yeti is town this whole time. that's probably bad.

[northsidegal]

if garaputo isn't scum then it's yeti (going off of night actions). if porkens is scum who gambitted no-killing then *shrug*.

hopefully it's garaputo so i can be absolved of my poor play the rest of this game.

pedit:

Yeti is probably the towniest of the non-me towns.

that's just me thinking in terms of night actions there. keychain has definitely fooled me before, so i guess i would put more weight into the night actions than into the daygame.

[northsidegal]

to clarify, both garaputo and yeti have explanations for, if they were scum, why there weren't any kills outside of deliberately doing so. for yeti it's targeting dunker night one thinking that nk15 was softing hiding behind dunker (as she described to nancy. she also still believes the targeting part of this, as seen in 1800), and for night two it's being jailkept.

she did apparently roleblock dreal night one, although i need to check if we ever confirmed that at all.

[northsidegal]

Look if you all see a live NK15 tomorrow, lynch NK15. This shouldn't even be a discussion.

why? there are a lot of things that

just don't make sense

if nk15 is scum (oh no, i'm sounding like myself in open 700). i know that you said the same thing applies to a lot of people, but that's a really weak defense.

[northsidegal]

looks like dreal couldn't confirm one way or the other whether he was roleblocked, although thinking more i wonder if keychain would claim a roleblock on him when she didn't know if that was true or not. so hopefully i'm right about garaputo.

my exact role is seeking neighborizer

my other cards are balance and death

I am also an idiot and I want to go puke because I just went and looked at my PM to make sure I had the other cards right, and my seeking neighborizer role is DAY submission and I submitted at Night

I'm really pissed at myself, I don't typically make such mistakes, what the fucking fuck

blehhhhhhhh

pedit will read all of that in a second

[northsidegal]

nothing about yeti's night actions are confirmed and they're all equally as consistent as garaputos with being scum (night one role over action, night two jailkept, night three didn't use action and there was finally a kill). also, if i consider it a possibility that acid jailkept someone to fake a guilty, i should also consider the possibility that yeti roleblocked someone to fake a guilty.

more in a second.

[northsidegal]

hmm...

[northsidegal]

acid's still seems more likely to be a scum gambit than yeti's, given how jailing someone has multiple possible explanations for why there wasn't a kill whereas roleblocking puts you into somewhat of a 1v1.

[northsidegal]

so, only two possibilites:

scum targeted dunker to kill – (probably means it's yeti)
scum deliberately nokilled – (could be anyone)

[northsidegal]

acid still had really bad associatives with jabarkas, but granted porkens' weren't that good either.

if porkens is scum, why didn't he shoot garaputo night two? it wouldn't have cleared you given that roleblockers generally take precedence over jailkeepers.

[northsidegal]

i was going to say that it was to not innocent you, but with the knowledge that you could have roleblocked dreal anyways i wouldn't see why scum wouldn't shoot. that might indicate that scum

didn't

have the knoweldge that roleblockers take precedence over jailkeepers. it also might indicate that scum didn't realize that they had the ability to perform kills and role actions in the same night, which if true would only point towards nk15 being scum.

if you were scum, theoretically you could have roleblocked nk15 and killed someone and tried to pass the jk off as an innocent, but that strategy relies on other people not knowing the jk/rb precedence as well as not being targeted by a tracker so i think the fact that it didn't happen isn't a reason to townread you.

[northsidegal]

[northsidegal]

garaputo is scum.

[northsidegal]

well, here's a nice deadlocked game with 24 hours to deadline.

[northsidegal]

is "deadlock" a word? maybe i meant "gridlocked".

[northsidegal]

Yes!!!!!! Absolution!!!!!

[northsidegal]

good game everyone! i enjoyed playing with all of you.

[northsidegal]

keychain, did yeticrab enjoy the game?