Mini 1962: Magical Girls Mafia II (Day 4)

[Almost50]

Hi all. Replacing Kaede here. I'm gonna be playing totally different than usual so I probably am gonna suck big time. Best resolution is to NK me early if you don't want the town to lose near LyLo.

Lynching me should also be fine, except doing it this early won't give you info on who's scum at all.

So there are two neighbourhoods of 3 players each? In a 13-players game? My guess is each has one scum in it or one does and one doesn't (this would be quite confusing). My neighbourhood partners will probably hate me for outing it already, but I feel it's best for the Town to know more about the setup.

I'm a member of the GOOD MAGICAL GIRLS clan, and we aim to eliminate the BAD MAGICAL GIRLS clan (I don't see why we are in RED and they are in BLUE though.. more confusion).

I TOLD YOU I will suck big time. Now whatever you do you should consider shooting me tonight, no??

More when I've caught up some more.

[Almost50]

A quick skim of the opening 8 pages and I have a TR on the ICSW slot. It's more of a TR on the Alisae head though. I'm not an expert when it comes to reading beeboy, but I'm comfortable calling the slot Town for now.

[Almost50]

Okay
maybe one last thing before I go

C

L

A

I

M

B

U

L

L

E

T

P

R

O

O

F

this didn't seem like obv wifom claim to me but maybe I'm stupid zzzz

Ali did the exact same thing in

The Real Folks Blues

rerun and ended up NK'd on N1.

[Almost50]

Actually not the "exact" same thing. I think he claimed PGO there.

[Almost50]

My power consumes 6 energy fwiw

[Almost50]

6 points.

Ok.. so Kaede already claimed that. Good.

[Almost50]

UNVOTE:
If that replace out is tactical I'm just done imo

It obviously wasn't, but I understand how you might think it may have been.

Now that I'm here though I think we can work together. I presume I'm a much easier read for you. No?

Time for some random reads:

I don't see what's scummy about the LLD claiming process. Gun to my head I'd say LLD is Town for it.

If there's scum in my neighbourhood it has to be Kaito Momota. Not sold on there "having to be" scum in there though.

I'll keep my other impressions to myself for now, but let it be known I have a lynch pool of 7 as we speak, so I kinda need to do more reading to clip it down to 4 or 5 by the end of the day. The above quoted post is where I am right now in terms of catching up.

[Almost50]

he is town, and probably the nightkill if anyone from Mu is scum

No. >I< am the NK target I must insist!

[Almost50]

Tbh I just feel like making LLD a doublevoter

I agree LLD is very likely town, but I don't think here reads are sheepable right now. Gimme some more time.

P.S. I'm starting to get worried about Mastina's low activity. I know she said Gin wasn't engaged enough, but she also said it meant she had to actually play, and -so far- I do not see any "Mastina trademark play".

[Almost50]

@HardcoreMonkey: I like your read list, but I do have one strong reservation. Please look into Kaito & Kokichi closely with the perspective ONLY ONE OF THE TWO can be scum if at all. They're the other two in my neighbourhood, and I feel Kokichi is by far the townier of the two.

Could I be wrong? YES. Can they BOTH be scum?? Extremely unlikely.

[Almost50]

This is where I stand right now:

Lady Lambdadelta .... town?
Himiko Yumeno .... town?
Maki Harukawa .... ???
itissheaanderrantparabola (thestatusquo + errantparabola) .... ???
Ice Cream Sand Witch (beeboy + Alisae) .... Strong Town
Elizibereth (Ellibereth + Mulch) .... Strong Town
Panzerjager .... ???
Kaito Momota .... scum?
Kokichi Oma .... town
HardcoreMonkey (humaneatingmonkey + Toranaga) .... Strong Town
The Brain and Pinky (mastina + Ginngie) .... ???
RedFlavor .... ???

I think one of BnP/RF are scum though (according to my theory that one scum is placed in each of the two neighbourhoods).

So, if Kaito is scum then one of Maki/itissheaanderrantparabola/Panzerjager and one of The Brain and Pinky/RedFlavor is another.

Now how about killing me tonight? I'll even spare you the trouble and buy my own coffin

[Almost50]

Dude, you're in a confirmed town slot, nobody's gonna kill you so stop saying that.

?? How is being conf!Town a deterant from being NK'd??

Also, I said there are two neighbourhoods. I don't know if they're all town and my guess id at least one has scum in it if not both.

Also also I didn't realize my vote was on ICSW, so

UNVOTE:

[Almost50]

Between the two leading wagons I'd rather lynch B&P, but I do have a soft spot for each of the two heads there so I'm going to five them a chance to post more before I decide on the vote. If I'm not voting them I'd probably campaign for the lynch of Kaito Momota instead, He was the one to suggest our neighbourhood didn't have scum in it off the batm and he also was the one to siggest we keep it under wraps. Fibally he only has 6 posts in the neighbourhood (Kikichi has 29 and Kaede had 35) which is a bit weird for someone who asserts the neighbourhood is all town not to be sharing their thoughts in there.

[Almost50]

I wish Kaede was still here

She was easier to pocket, wasn't she?

[Almost50]

I wish Kaede was still here

Is that you sharing the same sentiment or did you mean to exclaim about that quote?

[Almost50]

@Mastina: I'm glad you're all caught up. Now explain to me like I'm 3 years old how neighbourhoods work in this game from your perspective. Why is yours a masonry while mine gets 2 scums in it? Remember: I'm only 3 years old, so you need to really really make things clear for this simple mind. Thank you.

[Almost50]

@Mastina: I'm glad you're all caught up. Now explain to me like I'm 3 years old how neighbourhoods work in this game from your perspective. Why is yours a masonry while mine gets 2 scums in it? Remember: I'm only 3 years old, so you need to really really make things clear for this simple mind. Thank you.

it's not a masonry at all, just a neighborhood

I think mastina is town tho

I agree that it is a neighbourhood. I don't think Mastina's Town when she insists it's a masonry. I don't think she's town when she ignores the fact that 2 of her 3 top suspects are in a similar neighbourhood with me. Why would there be a neighbourhood for 2 scums to be extracting info from just one townie? And why is she treating the two neighbourhoods differently? How does this make any sense? That's why I'm asking her to elaborate on the matter before I decide this masony bit is scum!Mastina doing her thing (I already saw her "do her thing" in a 24 players game with ONLY ONE TOWNIE in it, and she did it well too. Everyone was scum and everyone thought she was Town and tried to hunt down the "other" scum until it was too late.)

[Almost50]

I don't. As I said before, it's either 1 scum in each or one scum in BOTH (one is all town and the other has one scum in it). That's the simplest way I could figure for having two neighbourhoods in a 13 players game. It could even be one outright scum in one PT and a spy/traitor in the other, but two in the same neighbourhood is a ridiculous proposition, and calling a neighbourhood "a masonry" just because is even more so, and Mastina should know better. I mean, she's no rookie by any means. She's an experienced and gifted player and a quite knowledgeable mod too, so that proposition coming from her is pinging me hard I almost want to vote her without further discussion.

[Almost50]

Why do I feel like the game has stalled? It's like everyone's happy with the status quo, town and scum alike.
I seriuosly have no case against anyone. I do have suspects, but my suspicions are not enough to justify a vote. They're mostly either gut reads or PoE.

[Almost50]

Can you confirm I was heavily townreading Kaede in the neighborhood?

You said you trusted him totally, yes. (Or is it "her"? I'm sorry if I'm confusing some people's pronouns.)

[Almost50]

@Kaito: Are you ignoring my points on purpose? You haven't addressed any of it as far as I can tell. Why do you think our neighbourhood is all town? Why did you agree to keep it under wraps when you "had no real reason for it" as you yourself put it? Why aren't you posting much in the neighbourhood?

Talk to me. Show me why I should be TRing you right now.

[Almost50]

@Mastina: Thank you for taking the time to give me a detailed answer.

On another note I do find Maki's vote switch questionable as it happened just when the Kokichi wagon gained momentum.

Oh, God! I hate my indecisiveness in this game. I know I said I'd be changing my play style a little, but -hell- this feels weird even for me not to be voting someone and fiercely pursuing their lynch.

I no longer want to lynch Mastina (Brain & Pinky for those who want the hydra name). I won't support a Kokichi lynch, but I won't be fighting it nail and tooth either (no previous experience with them makes my TR on them jut about good enough to avoid voting them myself). I also have mild TR on both LLD & Himiko, and I hate starting new wagons when there are already four of them. Hmmmm...

Btw, is RedFlavor still playing in his game? It's been quite a while since I saw him say anything here. Maybe he's being active in he neighbourhood? If so, can someone give us a general idea of what he's been saying and where he stands on all this?

[Almost50]

You modded me, Maki? Did the game finish?

Yep you may know me under the account MariaR Voltron mafia

Maki is Maria???? Holly Jolly Molly!!!

[Almost50]

VOTE: Kaito

My vote should be on someone by now, so why not on the one I'm having trouble sorting out the most.

[Almost50]

Here's MY theory:

If 6 months ago I was playing in two different games simultaneously, and both games had Mastina, Cerb, Titus and a couple more players in each of them, it would be easy for me to think I had posted in one game when in fact I had only posted in the other.

[Almost50]

Here's MY theory:

If 6 months ago I was playing in two different games simultaneously, and both games had Mastina, Cerb, Titus and a couple more players in each of them, it would be easy for me to think I had posted in one game when in fact I had only posted in the other.

and we shall say no more of this, site rules.

Exactly! It would've been even better if you didn't comment on it either.

[Almost50]

Would someone like to give me an idea of the gamestate? I'll of course be reading up, but if I know what's going on I should be able to participate in whatever end-of-day discussion is occurring.

only 2 and a half pages posted in 4 days should give a good view about the gamestate. BORING should suffice.

[Almost50]

Yes, I seem to have noticed that.
We should have some fun then! Why is Kaito scum, Almost?

Right now it's because they haven't responded to my earlier case on them either here or in the PT. They let Kokichi do it for them in the PT (Koki refuted the point about Kaito suggesting to keep the neighbouthood undercover first).

[Almost50]

Can we not get kaito today.

The way things are going we're not getting anyone today. It so much looks like a NL for me

[Almost50]

vote: ice cream and sand witch

I think its ice, redflavor and itsalongasfucknameforanacc

Wow! 8th wagon popping up! And just one day and half away from DL. GREAT!!

[Almost50]

His neighborhood posting wasnt any good either and i likr that he is scumreading ice there while saying nothing at all here cause it has the sweet taste of scum bussing

Whose SRing Ice??

[Almost50]

Here's what I think we should do: Himiko, Kokichi, B&P and Hardcore all need to quit their current vanity wagons and vote either of Kaito/B&Pinky/LLD/Himiko for starters, then if either of the 4 lynch candidates has only 2 votes on them still their voters would quit that wagon and vote for another that has 3 or more votes, and so on. That -of course- if you guys want to achieve a lynch at all today.

P-edit: Thank you, Tora

[Almost50]

Well, I don't really want to lynch Maria, but I find this ammusing

VOTE: Maki

@Kiyo: Could you please vote me? I currently have nobody voting me. If you do then we will only have you, hardcore & shea-parabola no voted for, but that could be fixed soon. We should end the day with 13 voters on 13 vote targets to make everyone happy (no, I'm not a socialist/communist, but the game sure looks like it).

[Almost50]

Well, I don't really want to lynch Maria, but I find this ammusing

VOTE: Maki

@Kiyo: Could you please vote me? I currently have nobody voting me. If you do then we will only have you, hardcore & shea-parabola no voted for, but that could be fixed soon. We should end the day with 13 voters on 13 vote targets to make everyone happy (no, I'm not a socialist/communist, but the game sure looks like it).

VOTE: almost50

BRING IT BIRD BOY

That's kind of lame. You were already the lonely voter of Himiko so you switching your vote to me does nothing terms of "redistribution of fortunes". Now someone else needs to be voting Himiko. Someone who's currently on a dual-vote wagon.

[Almost50]

If mastina wagon is dead, I can move my vote to Ice, kaito, or himiko.

And if you vote Kaito I will switch back there and we'd have a leading wagon with 4 votes on him.

[Almost50]

VOTE: Kaito

[Almost50]

Kokichi is the scum in his neighborhood who is trying to push his neighborhood as all town btw

The possibility did cross my mind, but I'm not posting to say his.

I'm making this post to exclaim about YOU and your actions over the last few hours.

Like, you unvoted Kiyo bc Koki was alright with that lynch. Fine. Then you rejoined that same wagon before Koki unvoted. But that's not all. You refused to join the wagon that is both: (a) larger, and (b) opposed by Koki. Are you telling me you TR Kaito so hard that you not only agree with Koki (your SR) on it, but prefer to be voting WITH Koki on the competing wagon??

Also (and I bet you knew this one was coming) it was YOU who started the couterwagon on Kiyo anyway. People have peen calling for Chara's lynch for a while, but it wasn't until you cast the first vote there that the thought started to materialize, so your "repositioning" on the wagon is sus as hell.

Now we may not have the time to actually flash wagon YOU, but I'd say if Koki IS scum in this game then YOU are his p and all this FoS'ing is just distancing.

How say you?

[Almost50]

Almost: I haven't had enough time to tell if he's town or not. I would likely have been able to say so definitively if I'd gotten a chance, but it won't happen that way so you should all just hope he's town. I'd say he is but I wouldn't be confident.

I didn't even get the chance to play any tricks as Kaede towned it up beyond remedy before she left.

I will trust your read on Mastina since I now you can read her better than I. Now if you don't get lynched you should neighbourize ME so we can talk like we do i the hydra P (that would be awesome. A Double-Voting hydra).

Now do you have any other

confident

reads

[Almost50]

Oh, is Elli online? He should be able to tell I'm town. If he knows my main is Chara, that is.

Why Elli over me??

[Almost50]

Well this was pointless, whoever did it goes immediately down one slot.

VOTE: Pinky

Going back there, I'll also vote Maki though.

Maki did. And I've just FoS'd her so might as well give it a try.

VOTE: Maki

[Almost50]

Oh, right: Almost, a yes or no from you specifically for neighbourizing would be nice as well.
If I post again tonight, please kill me in-game somehow. Honestly.

I already said YES before I read this.

[Almost50]

but I'd say if Koki IS scum in this game then YOU are his p and all this FoS'ing is just distancing.

Why flash wagon a partner of mine when I can easily get someone else who is prob town lynched plus if I was bussing I'd full bus not a half assed bus that I prob wouldn't even get credit for if I was scum.
I voted Kiyo and then unvoted yes then I was shakey because Kokichi is on it then he unvoted and started going all iffy on Kiyo and that signaled to me as mafia bussing who got cold feet if you weren't obv town because of Kaede I'd prob question your logic but hey if you want to sus me for lynching scum fine by me ^_~

You probably should reread my post with the knowledge Koki=Kokichi (i.e. NOT Kiyo). You are FoS'ing Koki but you are NOT voting him. You are not voting the wagon he objects to either. You are voting WITH him. I find that weird.

[Almost50]

That's because she's scum. Almost, vote Ice.

I'm TR'ing Ali in his game. Sorry.

[Almost50]

VOTE: sheaparabola

After typing my reasoning I realized I was doing

Spoiler: too much talking to say too little:

Gladiator is a role that can go either alignment, but Elli is TOWN to me, and I even understand why they did this. Nobody was getting any conclusive evidence or making a compelling case against anyone else. Everybody's seeing it from their own perspective and we couldn't agree on a lynch or even 2 or 3 players for a lynch pool. In times like these it's best to get rid of someone who didn't do anything all game. Either that or NL (a dreaded choice to most). Elli simply went for the safest option for the Town. And besides, they wanted to gladiate Kaito initially, but then they must've bought into the claim or -at least- thought it "might" be legit. The point is their role was outed already so they had better use it today before they get NK'd precisely to prevent them from using it later on.

[Almost50]

Ah! My bad then. Sleep deprivation is a bitch for a 50 y.o.

[Almost50]

Why are we lynching someone who hasn't talked in a week again?

1- Because they haven't? They're either dead weight for Town or pure Scum. Either way it's nice to see them gone.
2- Because the alternative is lynching a Townie. We have no 3rd alternative now.

[Almost50]

Well, I'm not seeing it from Ali. I could buy beeboy to be scum as I don't have a reliable method to read him (gut or otherwise) so if it was only him posting I might have been swayed to SR the slot.

[Almost50]

Well, I'm not seeing it from Ali. I could buy beeboy to be scum as I don't have a reliable method to read him (gut or otherwise) so if it was only him posting I might have been swayed to SR the slot.

I'm scumreading them as well.
But you have better meta on Alisae. You're very confident?

Let's just say they are my 3rd top TR, and my own rad list coincides with theirs to a great extent (the only notable difference is the one on Maki. Everyone else is either in the right place or a couple of notches up/down at most).

[Almost50]

EBWOP: I should've said THE TOP HALF of their read list.

[Almost50]

OK, here's my own current readlist (I didn't want to post that, but I already slipped)

Elizibereth
HardcoreMonkey
Ice Cream Sand Witch
Kokichi Oma
Himiko Yumeno
Korekiyo Shinguji
Lady Lambdadelta
The Brain and Pinky
itissheaanderrantparabola
Panzerjager
Kaito Momota
Maki Harukawa

[Almost50]

You're my top sr too Kokichi. I know why you want me lynched but it's not happening I will happily get you lynched I have explained my reasons to sr you to the best of my abilities if you wanna talk on our srs and duke it out fine by me that'd be fun. I don't really care what Kaito thinks you're both prob scum in that neighborhood let's go.

Sorry, impossible for any of us to be mafia. Nice try, though!

Are you masons?

Not by mod confirmation, no. However, it does look like our claims in the PT check, and as such we are likely to be all Town.

[Almost50]

@All: It's not the "role". It's the "target" they picked.
@Mastina: I know. But they disappeared before they relayed the message (they only told me they have one). I also gave them some details regarding as to why I changed my mind about SRing Kaito (i.e. reversed the read from a SR to TL) which I now think wasn't relayed back either.

So, I'm gonna do something stupid. I won't tell you the roles. I will just say Kaito opted to target Ice on N1. They announced it before the fact, and confirmed it after the fact. You simply do NOT announce targeting the player you intend to kill beforehand, and then come back to confirm you did target that player after they flip. That's not smart scum play.

[Almost50]

As for Koki, he did claim he was frosted then defrosted (or rather told to ignore the frosting message), which also makes him more likely Town (I was already TRing him, but it strengthens that read). Why would scum claim to have been defrosted (thus confirming they did submit an action)? I would not have known about the defrosting message if I wasn't told about it, because I only got the one about being frosted and not the follow up note.

[Almost50]

VOTE: LLD

For that hideous hammer yesterday. LLD is not a lol!hammer type of player. She would have read and knew where the game was. Ending the day at that point EVEN if she thought Kaito was Scum would have been a very bad move for Town!her. I believe she saw me stating Kaito visited Ice, and Ice till dies, so Kaito was not a protective, so must be investigative/informative, so let's "pretend" for it to be a lol!hammer and maybe get away with it.

[Almost50]

@LLD: Why would you vote him anyway? I said he claimed to target Ice beforehand and then confirmed the visit after the fact. That was my argument against his lynch. What did you see that made you think he was still worthy of yet another vote? Even if you miscounted, why put him @L-1?

@Elli: Does your gladiator thing have to be YOU vs someone? Or can you pick two players to pit against each other?

[Almost50]

So, what was scummy about announcing he will visit the victim and then confirming he did indeed pay the nightkill victim a visit? What's your theory about a scum motive to do that?

[Almost50]

@Elli: Does your gladiator thing have to be YOU vs someone? Or can you pick two players to pit against each other?

Sadly me versus someone

also I'm mulch rn btw

Oh! OK. And sorry for confusing the heads.

@LLD: Still waiting for a response to 1674. Also, can you give me your current reads if you please? Thank you.

[Almost50]

mulch thinks kaito targetted LL and got a guilty

I'm much less sure.

No. Kaito targeted ICE on N1. I already said that. We agree on the target beforehand, and then he confirmed he did investigate ICE at the start of D2. My argument for Town!Kaito was "why would Scum announce -beforehand- they were visiting someone they already decided to shoot? And why would they confirm having visited that player in particular when they do turn up dead? If Kaito was Scum he could have claimed to be targeting just about anyone else with any sort if action." Of course, nobody listened and both Maki and LLD in particular looked like they wanted the investigative lynched at any cost.

[Almost50]

i mean there are two options for what happened yeah

kaito had an actual result and lied to a bunch of ppl in some sort of gambit

kaito tracked ice cream and tried to pull some gambit in thread

Kaito didn't use the Tracker shot. He used the COP shot on Ice.

[Almost50]

If it was a guilty Kaito would've told his hood correct

There's no question of this.

I agree. Kokicki always thought were all Town. I had reservations on Kaito at the start but started to see the light towards the end of the day. Kaito hard TR'd me and had mild reservations on Kokichi at first, but also ended up hard TRing Kokichi by the end of D1. We discussed our actions (or lack thereof) and we settled on Kaito investigating Ice.

There is NO WAY Kaito told us anything but the truth. Even I (who was pushing Kaito at the star of the game) could see this could never be a gambit and could never have come from Scum.

So, as much I would LOVE to play along and claim LLD was guiltied by Kaito, I won't be faking a result on her. It's her play and the way she hammered that makes me want to lynch her.

[Almost50]

I mean he either gambitted in thread or in the hood it's one or the other atm right? -.-

Jesus! He didn't even say anything in the main thread. I outed his result while he wasn't even online.

[Almost50]

And the reason I outed it is because I thought that would save him, and because I knew it was a 1-shot ability. I didn't even know he also had a 1-shot Tracking ability. He only spoke of his Cop shot in the hood as that's what he intended to use.

Also, you need to think about this: If he still suspected us in the hood and wanted to gambit, it was evident he would trust us in the next day when he does get a result (i.e. not blocked) and is still alive. If he was gambiting he would have targeted the one he suspected between me and Kokichi instead. Nobody else knew about his action/ability before hand, so he either trusted us or he would have investigated one of us.

[Almost50]

i want to know if whoever removed mastina was town or scum

For that we either need to know whom it was or why they did it (or both). I wouldn't expect the perpetrator to claim it as either alignment though.

[Almost50]

Some gibberish:

What's with the UNVOTE calls? The most LLD's wagon got to was 3 votes. It's not like everyone's ganging up on her.

Also, there are 2 votes on Panzer and 2 on LLD as of the end of page 71, so why the calls to unvote LLD and not Panzer?

@LLD: You're calling the Eli slot bad?? Well, at least they're READING. You on the other hand admitted TWO MAJOR SINS in Mafia, namely: (a) Voting without reading, and (b) Miscounting the votes

I really hope for your sake that you do flip Scum. At least that would make your play excusable somewhat. If somehow you are Town then you have no right to call ANYONE bad. Honest.

Because we're not lynching yet so your vote is pointless.

Seriously? So, we've been playing the game the wrong way all along all these years? I thought people always voted for various reasons whether or not they intended to get a lynch through "now".

And if that's what you think, why the hell is your vote on Panzer? What's so special about your vote on Panzer that makes it alright while someone else's on LLD is not?

[Almost50]

I'll say one good thing.

When I flip town, this game will do wonders for my meta with idiots like you!

You remind me of my scum game t b h

Actually she reminds me of HER Scum game, tbh! LLD does resort to such behaviour as a scumster (reference Gistou. Game #23 on my wiki page). As Town she is more sensible and would be silent when shown how bad they were playing.

[Almost50]

I asked a specific question to which I got no response: Why are you calling for "insert player name" to unvote when YOU are voting someone yourself? It is not that complicated a question, really.

[Almost50]

Is it that unlikely for 2 commuters in the game do you think lld hammered fully knowing the vote count do you think the person who did that too mastina was town of scum? Etc etc

Yes, it's very unlikely for mods to design a game with 2 commuters, and even less likely for them to be of the same alignment.

As for Mastina, I already talked about that. I simply don't know, but it's more likely a Town player bc why give Scum the ability to remove someone from the game "temporarily". However, I Mastina is not back in he game by tomorrow then it might be a Scum delayed kill or something to that effect. I'm thinking more of the gems bubbling ability in SU2.

[Almost50]

Well, if "insert player name" is voting "insert another player's name" NOW then they sure are NO going to hammer them, are they?

[Almost50]

No. I'd rather call you Scum (in-game) than resort to an attack on your personality. Thank you

[Almost50]

Koki is Town because of many things, but one that I did hint is that he knew Kaito was a Cop as well as I did. Kaito didn't die and didn't get blocked on N1, and Koki had always defended Kaito all the way both in the main thread and in the neighbourhood. It would have been easy for Scum!Koki to be unsure in the PT right off the bat, or to show some suspicion when Ice turned out dead.

Also all his arguments are valid and make sense. He's NOT trying to strong arm anything. In fact, Kaito TR'd you while me and Koki SR'd you, and right after Kaito got lynched Koki posted a short message in the neighbourhood that was intended for Kaito to read that could be paraphrased as: You should've trusted me. She is Scum.

Now the way you "sneaked in" a vote on that wagon coupled by he lol!hammer LLD placed was suspicious as hell. I would request that you go back and read the posts just before you voted Kaito, check the timestamps, then follow up until LLD hammered and see how you'd feel if it was me in your slot and you in mine.

Like, I'm not playing tricks here. It's a straightforward accusation supported by a clear reasoning. If I'm wrong about your alignment then you still need to understand that it as your play that lead to this situation. It wouldn't have been his hard a SR if you didn't vote Kaito in the first place (ignoring what I said about him and his declared action). There was no need for you to vote there. No time constraint and no competing wagon that you hard TR'd. NOHING.

[Almost50]

Also, as soon as LLD had 2 votes on her today you started the counterwagon on Panzer. Then she joined you and then you started yelling at us to unvote. How would this look to you if you were me?

[Almost50]

My conclusions are based on you being a competitive player, not a VI. If it was someone else I might have viewed it as stupid town play, but coming from you it doesn't look that way. Burden of proficiency? It sure looks like it, except I'm judging you by your actions not by your reads. You could have all the wrong reads in the world but still play the game right. This just isn't the Maria I'm used to.

[Almost50]

FTR, I'm also starting to second guess my read on Kiyo. They also yelled on people to unvote (but unlike you they weren't voting anyone themselves). Also the disappearance of BOTH their hood members is a bit sus too, since now they can theoretically claim anyone said anything in there and no one would know better. However, if Mastina does come back to game then it looks a bit better since then we would have the two of them supporting each other's claims of what's been said in the hood. That is why bI say if Mastina comes back then it's likely they were bubbled by a Town player, while if she doesn't then it's more likely a scum delayed kill.

Also Kiyo's defense of you isn't too convincing to me, so if LLD is scum and you are trying to save her with that counterwagon it makes sense that Kiyo is your third. It doesn't

have to be

but it still would make sense and wouldn't surprise me.

[Almost50]

@Kiyo: I'll probably be kicking myself in the butt for this, but I get the feeling this is Town you posting now. It feels as though the "poker face" you more or less maintained all game has started to show some emotions in these last 3 posts. Please don't be another "Cerb" in my closet.

And now you tricked me into a position where I cannot justify not taking your "emotional" read on Maki into account when I'm apparently doing the same thing regarding you. You know I usually prefer analytic scum hunting over emotional reads. *Sigh*

[Almost50]

@Maki: No, I'm not using meta. I'm just saying I know you are better than this. I can lay back and give you some slack though and see how it goes.

@Kiyo: This isn't specific to this game, but more of a general tip: Stop selling yourself as a less than average player. I know how you can be when you want to be

Back in this game though: I neither said you did nor you didn't remove Mastina. I gave two possibilities .. one that would lead to you being Scum and the other that would lead to you being Town. Do you know something I don't? If not, then it's premature to assume either of the conclusions is true when we don't know whether Mastina's coming back or not.

Also, I'm getting a little shaky bc my top TRs are the ones being whacked. Remember this?

This is where I stand right now:

Lady Lambdadelta .... town?
Himiko Yumeno .... town?
Maki Harukawa .... ???
itissheaanderrantparabola (thestatusquo + errantparabola) .... ???

Ice Cream Sand Witch (beeboy + Alisae) .... Strong Town

Elizibereth (Ellibereth + Mulch) .... Strong Town
Panzerjager .... ???
Kaito Momota .... scum?
Kokichi Oma .... town

HardcoreMonkey (humaneatingmonkey + Toranaga) .... Strong Town

The Brain and Pinky (mastina + Ginngie) .... ???
RedFlavor .... ???

I think one of BnP/RF are scum though (according to my theory that one scum is placed in each of the two neighbourhoods).

So, if Kaito is scum then one of Maki/itissheaanderrantparabola/Panzerjager and one of The Brain and Pinky/RedFlavor is another.

Now how about killing me tonight? I'll even spare you the trouble and buy my own coffin

2 of the 3 slots I started off with STRONG TRs on have been killed and I can't do anything about it. That sucks. :/

Also, does/did Kokichi go by a different name before? Like I only recently learnt that Kaito = Dunn and Maki = Maria, so who is Kokichi?

[Almost50]

I don't really understand you mean by "better then this"

LOL.. it's self-evident. You don't usually derp. You don't play careless or "fuck up" all that often. You can get bad reads, YES, but you almost never play like a noob. *Shrug*

Anyway, everyone is entitled to derp once every now and then, so I'm willing to accept this was your turn. Now get back to game solving and let's see if we can reverse the flow and bring back the Town into this.

[Almost50]

Also.. LOL .. it really sucks to be in my slot. Like.. a totally useless ability and a full blown universal TR .. I have no room to maneuver at all. I just can't play Mafia properly when I can't be tricky or sneaky .. and that's as either alignment. (Chara would perfectly understand this, but so would a number of other players on the site).

[Almost50]

Ok, let me try from scratch. >9< living players

assumed

Almost50 is Town (that's mod confirmed to me)
Elizibereth are Town (it's a given, only a few millimeters from being mod confirmed. You simply don't give Scum multiple gladiator shots ... unless your name is KuroiX that is.)
Now let me trust my heart on Kiyo, and then trust them on Maki.

That leaves the scum trio in a 5 players pool: Panzer, LLD, Kokichi, Himiko & Mastina

Here's what I want help on from the trio of Eli (with one L, so Mulch won't assume I'm talking of just the Elli head ), Kiyo and Maki:

Can you assume X scum and tell me who their 2 likely p's would be from the 5-slots in the proposed scum pool?

Also, does either of Maki/Kiyo have any objections over starting off with he assumption Eli are Town?

P-edit: GOOD. You both have stared doing that already. GREAT!

P-edit2: Ah. Maki DOES have an objection to Eli being in the Town block it seems.

I guess I should start by providing the answers to my own questions.

I'd start by listing all possible combinations. I'd then dash out all combinations involving LLD+Panzer being scum together, and LLD+Koki being Scum together.

With 2 players excluded from being LLD's partners it looks like the only scum team that does include LLD would be LLD/Himiko/Mastina

If LLD is Town though we have 4 other combinations: Panzer/Himiko/Mastina, Kokichi/Himiko/Mastina, Panzer/Kokichi/Mastina or Panzer/Kokichi/Himiko

I'll even toss in Eli (just for you, Maki. I'm NOT AT ALL sold on that slot being even remotely scummy).

If Eli are Scum then Himiko is likely their p. So, Eli/Himiko/Panzer, Eli/Himiko/Koki, Eli/Himiko/Mastina (I think we can safely exclude Eli+LLD to be scum together, no?)

I'd still like to point out that the gladiator thing from D1 doesn't make sense to come from Scum AT ALL, especially when we know the slot that was actually wagoned was none other than Kaito, but let's just pretend that Scum!Eli thought the Shea/Parabola lurking was indicative of a strong PR and try to see where bit leads us).

Does Koki+Mastina make any sense to any of you? Could they be playing an elaborate game of distancing where they keep SRing each other and end up voting someone else? I'm not sure that could ever come from Kokichi, and I doubt he could execute it if it was proposed by Mastina (yes, I wouldn't put i past Mastina to do something of teh sort, but it requires the other player to be as elaborate.. no offense).

So,

LLD/Himiko/Mastina

Panzer/Himiko/Mastina or Panzer/Kokichi/Himiko

Eli/Himiko/Panzer, Eli/Himiko/Koki or Eli/Himiko/Mastina

That's 6 possible scum teams, and ALL involving Himiko (I honestly didn't see that one coming before I started doing this).

If anyone has enough reason to exclude a pair there that would automatically eliminate a possibility. Personally I would go for the LLD/Himiko/Mastina option if brutally tortured and made to pick one right now.

Opinions?

[Almost50]

I believe we should look at Eli/Panzer/LLD at the moment

Aside from my hard TR on Eli, assuming they're Scum should automatically bring in Himiko precisely because are ignoring his mere existence (or rather none thereof) in the game.

ALSO, Eli being all over LLD and Mulch itching to gladiate her makes it almost impossible for them to be scum together.

[Almost50]

Is there another reason to TR Eli besides their gladiate power?

I thought your Kokichi TR was confident. Are you considering teams with Kokichi or is that just for the sake of argument?

1- I had a STRONG TR on the slot before they announced that gladiator thing at all. My read list was in post #749, while Eli only claimed Gladiator in #1069 and actually activated it (thus confirming it wasn't a bluff) in #1334, so YES.. I hard TR Eli long before the gladiator thing.

2- It is, but if we are to look at things from all angles I felt obliged to limit the starting assumptions. I mean, My Ei TR is even stronger than the one on Koki still, but I did include them too.

Next step is we let Eli do the combinations with the assumption they are Town and Maki's not confirmed and see where that leads too and compare the outcomes.

[Almost50]

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=73603
Considering I just came out of a game where mastina bussed her partners to hell and back I wouldn't throw bussing out the window for her I'm a bit sleepy for now so I'll think on your teams later but I like this start it's a very good start
Pedit: I'd like to know this too

Oh, I know Mastina CAN definitely do this. I'm questioning Kokichi's ability to play along with that scheme.

[Almost50]

Hmmm.. good point, actually!

[Almost50]

@Porkens: ISO me. That should give you like 50-75% of what's been happening. Alternatively, you may skip D1 and start reading from the start of D2.

Hardcoremonkey/Mastina/Kiyo were in a neighbourhood (Hard was N2 NK and flipped Town. Mastina disappeared from the game on D3)

Almost50/Kokichi/Kaito were in another neighbourhood (Kaito was D2 lynch and flipped Town).

Also Ice were Town and were N1 kill after Sheaparabola were lynched on D1 and also flipped Town.

P.S. Welcome to the game

P-edit: Well, at least let me know what it was all about in the PT, will you? I promise to not out the info this time.

[Almost50]

Oh. Kokichi is scum.

What's your read on Himiko (now Porkens)?? In fact, what are you reads on everyone else?

[Almost50]

OK, so I was reading the early D1 interactions looking for a certain clue, but I accidentally tripped on this one post:

Ok first things first

we need to eliminate the ability for scum to lie about their ability consumption from the get go. Confusion is not allowed to be an excuse for us burning over our gauge.

As a result, while we want to keep the actual abilities themselves secret

All players should be required to claim their point expenditures, and we should plan around this such that no player should accidentally cause us to go over.

Further,

My power is one such that claiming it (and how much it costs) is really not an issue. I wish to do this at some point today.

People called it scummy based on points consumption would lead to an estimate of how powerful the role is and others found it NAI (I was in the latter camp when I first read it)

However,

look at that last line

. LLD said she would like to claim her power ;ater on D1. but hasn't actually done so until D3.

[Almost50]

OK.. maybe I'm being the biggest fool on the face of this planet, but I've changed my mind about LLD.

Scum are in Mastina/Koki/Panzer/Porkens, and more precisely it's Mastina + 2 of the other 3.

Now where do we go from here?

UNVOTE:

[Almost50]

Gun to head I'd say Panzer is the toniest of the 3 though.

[Almost50]

yeah, good luck with that. I'm not voting LLD.

[Almost50]

Walk me through LLD locktown?

and then given that walk me through why Panzer towniest out of that group.

(we can even just brush past the part where town has 2 commuters if you're right on both).

I didn't say "lock" town, but it does look like it. Panzer is Townier courtesy of his resistance to the power claim proposed by LLD on D1. Both had valid points and both argued well enough it felt that they both were genuinely convinced it was for the good of the town.

Mastina is lock scum to me for various reasons. For example, failing to unvote Kaito after I said what I said about him. After the flip she still didn't change her reads.

Gun to my head I'm back to assuming 1 scum was in each hood from the beginning, so that would make Kokichi her scum p.

I also went back to calculate the power consumption thing and here's what I got:

So we ended D1 with the power gauge @ 61, and it was 55 at the start of D2. This means all 61 units were used up on N1.

We know Ice used up 8. We know Kaito used up 5. I know I didn't use my ability at all. That's 48 units used up by the other 9 players.

Assuming LLD's Commuter thing costs 4 and the motivator thing costs 8 then 44 units used up by 8 players

Hardcore: 2
Koki: 3
Porkins: 10
Panzer: 5

24 by Mastina/Kiyo/Maki

Now I recall Kiyo claiming some reasonable amount for the neighbourizer ability, and the ability itself was verified. I don't know about Maki's ability (maybe I missed it?) but it does look like Masina consumes a lot of energy (as well s Porkens). I have no idea if this means anything to you but it does to me.

Btw, it was >I< who bubbled Mastina to stop her from controlling the lynch today and/or spamming he therad with all those gigantic rhymes that no one really understands. I had a 1-shot ability to remove someone from the game for a day (just for the a DAY PHASE, so she will be back at night). I had previously decided not use it at all because I didn't really know what to do with it. If I removed a Townie it would be one less townie vote, and if I removed Scum we cannot lynch them on that day even if someone had a guilty on them. I finally found a good use for it so I did it.

Which reminds me: When I said what I said about the possibility of Mastina coming back vs dead it was to protect Kiyo from the NK. As long as there's little shade on them they would not be shot, but Mastina WOULD be back so Kiyo will be on the clear. Kiyo didn't get the trick to play along with it, as they didn't know it was I who bubbled Mastina. The only one who knew was Koki and he still let me do it, so that was one more reason or me to TR him, but if LLD is indeed Town then it could be because I explained I was doing it to stop Mastina from controlling the lynch so that we could lynch LLD, so they could've let me do it still to get the mislynch going anyway an Mastina would have absolutely nothing to do with it.

Am I sure of ANYTHING a all? Nope. I absolutely am not. I just think it's time for me to take a stance here and do what I can before it's too late.

I'll probably end up sheeping your slot today after all this, since Mastina is not an option here and now.

[Almost50]

Gun to head I'd say Panzer is the toniest of the 3 though.

I disagree

Why, of course you do. I said 2 scums in you/him/Koki, so him being townier means you're scum.

[Almost50]

Like, these are all the valid combinations (in order from most likely to least likely) I have right now:

Kokichi/Mastina/Porkens
================
Kokichi/Mastina/Panzer
Panzer/Porkens/Mastina
================
Porkens/LLD/Mastina
Maki/LLD/Mastina
Maki/LLD/Kiyo
================
Eli/Porkens/Panzer
Eli/Porkens/Mastina
Kokichi/Mastina/Eli


Now take your pick

[Almost50]

And I mean I've tried to overlook my own reads so even your slot (Eli) and Kiyo's appear here. I've considered all 8 remaining players aside from my own slot.

[Almost50]

Someone come up with 3 reasons that solid for why I'm scum. Please.

Not me, but I would imagine someone could say:

1- Because you are
2- Because You have a BLUE PM
3- Because I said so

So there!

[Almost50]

I could claim my power cost if you wish but I'm not going to claim what it does

That would be nice, but would you be able to build on it? You already know your cost, so do the math and see if it helps before you decide whether to claim.

[Almost50]

The main reason you talked about for putting faith in panzer and lld BOTH is the power claim stuff that happened right? (Lemme know if im blind and missed something else).

Basically, yes. I mean, I could come up with weaker arguments for either individually, but assuming they're Town together is basically due to that.

[Almost50]

I think you know that basically any action I've taken this game is inside my scum range. I've yet to do anything I feel is outside it.

So, you're basically acknowledging you have yet to "towntell" as everything you have said and done so far "is inside your scum range". Right? So, how do you expect anyone to even lean town on you when hat's the case?

[Almost50]

@Porkens:

You know, this is the 4rd or 4th game we play together in a row, and I really am not getting the same Townie vibes from you here that I did in the other games.

@EVERYONE: It's probably Panzer/Porkens/Mastina from where I stand right now. Their communication with each other of late seem like a miserable effort at distancing. Panzer is the designated 'bus' is the LLD 'mislynch' fails.

They're pointing fingers at each other and not even voting each other.

(check the VC at the top of this page where -after it gets corrected- Panzer is voting LLD & Porkens is votig Tor)

VOTE: Porkens

I made up my mind. The lynch is on PORKENS today, then Mastina tomorrow and Panzer last (since it's obvious to me they're willing to bus Panzer if push comes to shove I deduced his role is the least powerful of the 3).

Game solved! Maki/Kiyo/Tor/Koki/LLD please help me lynch Scum.

[Almost50]

@Kiyo: You were with us in drealz last game where Porkens was Town (playing as TPFKAP) and it's easy to note how different her play here is from that if only you remove all the role playing and look for basic Mafia play.

P-edit: Huh? Oh! Eli instead of Tor. Big deal. Yeah... not lynching LLD.

In fact, this IS further evidence I'm right this time. Panzer insists on lynching LLD over Porkens who he

still

SRs

@Panzer: Explain your read on

Porkens

right now.

[Almost50]

Well, I'm waiting on Maki+Kiyo and will vote where they vote, but I'm keeping my vote on you for now as a placeholder (and a reference for post-game discussion)

[Almost50]

VOTE: Lld


Someone give me one good reason why I shoulden't gladiate them right now


- Mulch

The only reason I have is you'd probably cost us the game, but feel free to do it and take the blame for 2 mislynches.

[Almost50]

LOL @ Trigger happy Mulch calling me dumb!

P-edit: Yes, TWO. You already gladiated Town on D1. (Remind me to keep you to endgame whenever I roll Scum in a game you're in)

[Almost50]

UNVOTE:

*Sigh*

I give up.

@Eli: I don't know anymore. I'm as clueless as I have ever been in a game before.

[Almost50]

Fine.

VOTE: Panzer

[Almost50]

Commuters

[Almost50]

Are you telling me you're voting without having rad shit? Not even the current day events??

[Almost50]

VOTE: Porkens

Porkens+Panzer+Mastina for me and I will follow wherever Maki leads.

[Almost50]

A50 is the real scrum fyi. That first post is basically a scumclaim.

IF you're town you really need to read and pay attention. If you had truly read my ISO (not just skimming) you would've seen me refer to Kaede having towned up my slot beyond remedy at some point, which means I replaced-in for the slot. Now go back and ISO Kaede and tell me if that could be Scum posting at all. Not gonna even town case myself, but you easily spotted me in 2 games and didn't TR me in a third in which I was Scum in the last few weeks so I really can't see how you would SR read me here if you're town.

[Almost50]

@Elli/Mulch:

Please provide you reads. Each of you. Thanks.

[Almost50]

I AM A TIME TRAVELER

I CAN TRAVEL BACK IN TIME AND HELP THE GOOD MAGIC GIRLS

I WILL DO THIS TONIGHT

IF YOU DONT FUCKING MISLYNCH ME

GOD DAMN

I can double the power reserve as a night action. Lynch me after I do that plz.

I suppose you can also make pigs fly. (Pun intended at your the name of your hydra with Chicka)

So, you can do BOTH on the same night?
Also, why hasn't your predecessor used their powers before?
Also also, why would we need to double the power reserve when we can simply play traditional Mafia?
Also also also, if your predecessor hasn't used their abilities before then who consumed all the power reserve?

You're clearly just trying to live for one more night to do something or another, and I'm not going to keep repeating the same mistake(s) again and again. I've evolved from a nut-brain emu to a monkey, and monkies do learn pretty quick.

Not moving my vote.. EVER!

[Almost50]

Also Koki's voting LLD (whom he already was voting) and providing no comments at all is sus as hell. It feels like a desperate move to try and save Porkens. I think we lynch Mastina after Porkens flips Scum, and then we look at Panzer vs Koki

[Almost50]

Same reason I townread her in Alisae's Hydra Upick.

And as you proved to be able to read her much better than I can ever do I am 100% following you on this read, which is why I'm following where she goes.

[Almost50]

Almost did you want me to do what we talked about, or go my own way?

I don't even remember what we talked about. Games have started and finished and this game is still ongoing. Care to refresh my memory? Or in the D2 neighbourhood?

[Almost50]

I don't even remember what we talked about. Games have started and finished and this game is still ongoing. Care to refresh my memory? Or in the D2 neighbourhood?

Day 2 neighbourhood! It's not a big secret. We talked about a general plan for who I should be neighbourizing each day.

Oh, THAT. You don't need to neighbourize me anymore. I wanted that to consult you on whom to use my bubbling shot at, and it has been used already.

[Almost50]

Regarding 2050, I know what I'm doing now, so no need for the answer.

OH.. then disregard my answer! (I really should learn to read everything before I post!)

[Almost50]

@Mastina:

I didn't continue to push the CLAIMED COP to lynch. I didn't say both Koki & Kaito were scum right off the bat. I didn't fake a restriction to make my already unreadable wall posts even more unreadable.

You did all that. Please don't lay the blame on me for your own misplay. You had as shitty reads as mine were, but you pushed yours more than I could ever have done (and you did prove my point when you still lynched Koki at LyLo).

I said Koki was Town. Kaito said Koki was Town. We were both flipped Townies yet you never trusted our read there. Why would you expect me to trust yours or even TR you with that play?

@Scum: GOOD PLAY. ALL 3 of you. Maki is just Maki ... totally unreadable for me. Eli's use of gladiator was just awesome and it did fool me. Panzer's CC to LLD was a clever move. Even killing me at that precise night to ensure Koki would get lynched to end the game was a perfect choice (not that I could have stopped it, but I sure would have fought it with everything I got).