Open 701: Pick Yer Power X/Y Game Over!

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Hey guys

What’s shaking?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

UNVOTE:

I’ll try to catch-up by tonight!

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Math and setup speculation are two things I’m not the biggest fan of. However, knowing they’re not alignment indicative, I immediately disregarded the two. And yet, I still don’t feel good about Comm. The amount of paranoia he inadvertently seems to be generating by the majority of his content coupled with his frustration just makes me uneasy.

I didn’t like North’s entrance or her earlier interactions with mutant. From my limited experience with her, I think she’s a good enough player to not vote mutant there. At one point, I think there was a back-and-forth between the two about a slip. This specifically I remember not sitting well with me. Mainly because it’s implying that town can’t be self-aware and realize that their thoughts and actions can or have been perceived as scummy and aren’t willing to do anything to severely prevent that from happening again or continuing to and getting lynched for it.

Also don’t like how shortly after she apologized for being inactive, she seemed to be trying to find a reason to remain on mutant after his wagon died. There are a number reasons why someone may not be actively participating in the game. Pressure building or attempts to is going to motivate either alignment to do something in order to avoid being lynched.

texcat is a difficult read for me because there posting just feels very lifeless and robotic though I really get where she was coming from when she initially voted for Viomi.

Viomi is another difficult read for me because I want to town read her emotion and toxicity but I know it’s incorrect to do so. I feel like if is she willing to talk about her experience with mafia a bit more I can hopefully forgive her terrible reasoning for scum reading mutant and PK

I didn’t really understand much of Chip’s earlier posting and I contribute that to not caring much about the setup at all. Meaning I didn’t really feel inclined to engage with him about his thoughts on the setup to help determine whether he was misunderstood town or scum pretending to not have an understanding of the mechanics and the setup. I did like that at one point he tried to get Aster to refocus and get back to scum hunting but that has been sorted negated for me. I’ve seen him mention Creature as a scum read a few times with little to no reasoning that can be easily followed and it just feels like something he can pivot too at any time. In hopes that a wagon on Creature gains traction.

Don’t know what to make of Kid and mo.

—

I town read everyone I didn’t mention.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Creature, what is your opinion of CommK?

Really?

I actually don't think scum!CK can fake his aggressiveness.

I'm mostly avoiding CK because I'm expecting him to die (or screw scum if they don't NK him).

There are others and I know a lot might’ve gotten lost in translation but Creature has been very vocal about where he stands on Comm.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

The self-meta isn’t doing you any favors Chip. If you don’t want to engage with mutant any further just ignore him and start scum hunting.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Although I don't like Chip, who is mostly posting stupid comments which have an uncanny mix of being both evading and confrontational, I don't think that he's as scummy as CommKnight, scumbuddyish as Creature, or as active lurkish as Lalendra (now Uzi).

Comparing Lalendra to Chip, Lalendra had a far more clear pattern of actively lurking and granting absolutely no information whatsoever. Chip also has a pattern of avoiding giving information, but does so in a confrontational manner. I don't like his confrontational manner, but I don't see what mafia has to gain by insulting instead of answering questions when at L-2. On the other hand, this is not the kind of behaviour I feel like we should let Chip get away with.

It looks like we won't be getting CommKnight lynched today. As such, I may as well UNVOTE: CommKnight. On a side note, it's been four and a half days since CommKnight's last post.

@Mod:

prod please?

As for Uzi, the replacement for Lalendra, it looks like he may have started to contribute by now. That does not change the issue of whether Lalendra's blatant active lurking was motivated by scum, but it does make me no longer consider him a lurker. It does feel a bit mean to lynch him over the actions of his previous incarnation which he can't do anything about.

That said, mafia is about who is scum and not about what is mean. Between Chip and Lalendra, I think that Lalendra's lurking is more indicative of being scum than Chip is. Moreover, with scumking CommKnight having pushed hard for the Chip wagon, I'm kind of sceptical of it. Thus, for now, I'll compromise VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert.

Lurking isn’t alignment indicative but I’m going to partly put to that the side for a bit. Why is dealing with situations in an aggressive way more likely to come from town than scum? I think it would be more helpful if you explored why Chip’s behavior is argumentative or hostile and determine if said behavior is genuine and what motivation behind it if any.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Part of the reason why PK was lynched was because he was considered an active lurker. Look how that turned out.

Some players just prefer to hang back and observe. Some don’t have enough confidence in themselves to push certain angles or their reads so they don’t try to play town leader. Sometimes they’re in other games that are more interesting or pressing. Sometimes they’re just busy.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Fluff is not an AI thing either. There’s no motivation to do it and if you believe that prod dodging is one, consider that moderators can just force replace players they deem to be purposefully trying to not get prodded.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Fluff is not an AI thing either. There’s no motivation to do it and if you believe that prod dodging is one, consider that moderators can just force replace players they deem to be purposefully trying to not get prodded.

Uhh.. Actually, no they can't! You don't force replace players as long as they aren't breaking rules or getting their third prod. Fluff posting is entirely viable for scum. Did you not READ the mafiascum wiki pages I linked that explicitly contradict what you're saying?

Yes they can

I have. The wiki isn’t gospel my friend. It’s just a guide for beginners to understand the basics. Most of the theory on there is very outdated in practice because the majority of players have realized that town commit “scum tells” just as frequently as scum do and vice-versa.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Fluff is not an AI thing either. There’s no motivation to do it and if you believe that prod dodging is one, consider that moderators can just force replace players they deem to be purposefully trying to not get prodded.

Uhh.. Actually, no they can't! You don't force replace players as long as they aren't breaking rules or getting their third prod. Fluff posting is entirely viable for scum. Did you not READ the mafiascum wiki pages I linked that explicitly contradict what you're saying?

Yes they can

I have. The wiki isn’t gospel my friend. It’s just a guide for beginners to understand the basics. Most of the theory on there is very outdated in practice because the majority of players have realized that town commit “scum tells” just as frequently as scum do and vice-versa.

Umm.. So how do you get your reads if not scumtells and towntells?

I hunt for motivation. I try to see and understand the intention behind an action. If there is motivation for an action from either alignment, I use experience to determine likelihood.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Geninue means sincerely felt or expressed Aster. Honest if you will.

Since you believe Chip’s hostile behavior to be geninue, you should when get a chance try and see if he’s often like this as town. Or, just focus on what he’s doing. Who is he defending? Who is he pushing? Why does he believe someone is scum? Etc.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I hate to focus on theory but I feel like it’s all I can do at this point if I’m being voted for actions that I believe aren’t AI.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Just please think about how the PK lynch went down. Try to think if you learned anything about how his wagon formed.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

No but now that I have you for a second, I noticed that you’ve yet to really explain what motivates scum to active lurk and post fluff. I have a feeling that you can’t so are there any other reasons why you think my slot is scum?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

And I did make a case..

I do remember you saying a few words as to why she is scum. But IIRC, it was mostly just pointing out holes in her pushes and criticising her activity. In general, it just felt OMGUSy. The only thing that I could perhaps consider being scummy is how she didn't reply to your reply to her original case on you. Personally, I just see it as she was never really hard pushing you. If you want to, we can pressure her to reply to that, but I honestly don't see how that would help us right now. If you want me to believe she is scum, make a more detailed case on her pointing to specific posts. It takes walls to change my strong reads, not sentences.

Yes, because pointing out that her pushes are all fake and misreps, and that she's active lurking this game so she doesn't have to give us any more information than she needs to is definitely what OMGUS is.

"Personally, I just see it as she was never really hard pushing you."
Then read the fucking thread and pay attention to the fact that pushing me is the only thing she's done in D2.

Just because you're from some shit forum where lurking the game out is somehow not scummy doesn't mean that's the case here.

flipped town, that is.

Oh okay, that makes more sense.

Wanna link your games with her so I can fact-check that?

Also, I know you won't understand why lynching lurkers is a good idea, since you are.. well, a lurker.

But basically, lurking denies the information town and also is a very common tactic among scum to stay under the radar and avoid getting caught up in all the suspicion and whatnot leading to mislynches.

And it's not just about her not posting very much, it's about the few posts that she uses to dodge prods being completely fluff. More akin to:

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ve_Lurking

[Lil Uzi Vert]

The above is all I can find.

You believe her motivation was not to give town any information and to avoid being prodded. Now ask yourself, how do those things help her look town? How do they help her avoid suspicion and stay alive? How do they help scum manipulate others and distort things?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I also have brought PK who was lurking and flipped town. Why are you not taking this into consideration?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I’m being a bit of a broken record here because I think you’re tunneled and refusing to re-evaluate because you like what you read from the Wiki.

Just think about what’s scum win-con and how they realistically go about achieving it? When’s the last time you’ve seen scum active lurk and fluff their way to victory?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

No I want you to explain into me. Using your own words.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

No I want you to explain it to me. Using your own words.

EBWOP.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Listen, if you’re going to use scum and town tells, you have to understand why they exist. If you know why they exist you can decide for yourself how effective such a tell can be (what percentage of scum will approximately be caught with it). You are a much, much, better player if you know why they do, as it will let you use them at the right moment and against the right players. On some players certain tells will work, on some others it won't.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Actually I’m just going to ignore you. I get less annoyed when I ignore my town reads

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Creature, talk to me about Electric? You mentioned generic?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Reread her ISO and I see what you mean. There’s nothing distinctive about her reads but I don’t really think that’s a problem. Thinking you’re scum buddying was pretty assaine though. However, I think her play is a result of too many of us are playing sheep. And usually when that’s the case, there is little to no reason for argumentation to take place.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I’ll try to get to this tonight.

I don’t see an issue with the way North hammered but I’m still suspicious of her. Consider my vote there.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

i'm assuimg that "someone pelase hammer" means there's nothing to claim.

VOTE: chip butty

I understand why she’s getting heat for this but I honestly thought he wasn’t a PR after he said that.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I don’t want to lynch North if it’s based on not waiting for a claim.

Smells like a policy lynch.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I actually have some time to kill. I’ll finish catching up.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Yeah I think this is definitely where I wanna go.

VOTE: sheepsaysmeep

[Lil Uzi Vert]

aster you really have potential as a scum player
a good place to start to get better is to stop scumclaiming

This isn’t even a rebuttal

[Lil Uzi Vert]

A misuse is to purposefully say or do something in the wrong way. So yes, you were misrepresenting him.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

And why laugh off the call out and then attempt to refute after?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

It’s also a misrepresentation.

You are asserting things that are not in accord with facts.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

The thing is, it couldn’t have been a misuse.

You essentially were trying to claim to have read every one of his posts and that the majority of them contained a list of scum reads.

You were trying to have us believe that you did read all his posts.

You’re now openly acknowledging that you were misusing the word as if that changes that you were pushing a misrepresentation.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Creature, why aren’t you seeing that we’re dealing with rookie scum here?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

So why didn’t you bother to double check? Why didn’t you bother to link or quote every single post you remembered?

Your job as town is to push cases that people can follow. Why didn’t you put the time and effort to nail scum?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

town: viomi/creature
leantown: kid/md
null: nsg/luv
leanscum: momo/ce
scum: tex/aster

i think this is everyone

This is the read list after your catch-up.

How are you so sure Aster is scum if you are now claiming you didn’t notice a whole lot of posts?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

You’re pushing Aster based on playstyle.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

So if they were scum claims, tell us why?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I would agree with you on the reasoning being weak if there was a way to counter what he’s accusing. I can understand if what you claimed he was doing is true or had read some of his past games. What you claimed was clearly false and I don’t recall you stating you doing the latter. So it’s hard for me to believe you can confidently push him on meta without the former being true and not doing the latter.

I haven’t even gotten into the play style not being scummy or why do you think scum would go about the game having little to no town reads.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I don’t see how you can read that statistic thing Aster did and not get committed and deadicated.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Or that thing with PK.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

How do you explain sheep and Viomi push on Aster then, Creature?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Claim: Town Neighborizer

since scum already knows this, after all I targeted Aster N1 and I've been chatting with them in our own thread ever since.

They've been super distant and the only

real

response I could get out of them was trying to tell me town probably wouldn't lynch texcat and other excuses why I shouldn't go after texcat sooooo

How does this justify the vote? tex doesn’t have a guilty on her. tex didn’t flip.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

sheep is sheep does not explain the basis of the Aster push being bull.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Being distant doesn’t mean anything.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

If I write off sheep and Viomi, that just leaves me with Kid and I don’t feel confident about him.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

If I write off sheep and Viomi, that just leaves me with Kid and I don’t feel confident about him.

tex as well.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Nah PK wa obvious town.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

But why?

I can see the average person having a hard time getting town reads when the majority of the site plays scummy.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I’ll be honest. The only thing I haven’t liked from Aster is how flexible he’s been or seems to be.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Get the fuck back to CommKnight’s slot.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Probably not. North is pretty decent

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I still scum read North. I just don’t agree with the overall basis of the wagon so I rather lynch elsewhere.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

The last one you can just go back a page and read the context.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Probably texcat enabling you and sheep.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I still scum read North. I just don’t agree with the overall basis of the wagon so I rather lynch elsewhere.

Northside must have a good role since she was number 2 in the draft. Don't you think it would be better to lynch her before vanilla sum?

I don’t know. I haven’t taken setup into account.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I still scum read North. I just don’t agree with the overall basis of the wagon so I rather lynch elsewhere.

Northside must have a good role since she was number 2 in the draft. Don't you think it would be better to lynch her before vanilla sum?

I don’t know. I haven’t taken setup into account.

Perhaps you should.

Why?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Lol. Are you claiming scum?

I still scum read North. I just don’t agree with the overall basis of the wagon so I rather lynch elsewhere.

Northside must have a good role since she was number 2 in the draft. Don't you think it would be better to lynch her before vanilla sum?

I don’t know. I haven’t taken setup into account.

Perhaps you should.

Why?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

For those not sheep and Viomi, what’s wrong with Aster’s case?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Yeah, it deserves more praise. North case is shit, tex case is shit.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Scum not having day talk doesn’t refute anything he’s accusing you two of.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

You’re just saying that because you town read them.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Also, if sheep and Viomi are both scum, doesn't that mean texcat must be town?

Most likely.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Cases are always needed without a hard gulity.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

That’s shit North.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

There’s nothing for me to respond to. You somehow have me in every probable scum team off of what I’m assuming is faulty VCA.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

It’s faulty for a lot of reasons but the main one is that we don’t have a scum flip yet.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

this is so stupid lol

[Lil Uzi Vert]

No I’m not going to vote North when sheep+Viomi are caught scum.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I don’t see why scum Viomi draws more attention to her partner hammering without a claim.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Fitz is catching up. 3 days left on the deadline going into weekend.

Starting to think we’re going to no lynch.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

How does North act as town?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

i will only switch to nsg to avoid a no lynch

Guess I could do this.

Won’t be happy about it though.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

VOTE: northsidegal

[Lil Uzi Vert]

tex, please don’t throw by voting me over who you investigated. I know you didn’t investigate me.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Yeah I didn’t read anything prior.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Anyway I’m town.

Fitz + Kid by PoE.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Oh shit.

Yeah I’m out of it.

Aster + Fitz then?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

VOTE: Aster

[Lil Uzi Vert]

If you’re voting because I haven’t been paying attention to who is cleared, that’s shit.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

If you’re voting because I haven’t been paying attention to who is cleared, stop! That’s shit.

EBWOP.