Team Mafia 2018: White Flag — Day Six

[LicketyQuickety]

You are impressing me with how stupid you are.

Why are you resorting to insults here? You are just sniping him with insults to undermine his position as universal town read.

Well, when you cut more than half of the context out of why I said that in the first place (the second line of that post) it doesn't really do me any good to give a retort to this. My point was that Llama's methodology was WRONG in how they are coming up with reads. You can't say something like "well they said this, but meant that" without some context into why that might be. All we have to go on is what TSQ said, and I didn't see TSQ either confirm nor deny what Llama said was true, so all we really have to go by is what TSQ actually said and can't assume a motivation that isn't obviously apparent.

CES -

50/50 on Town/Null

Why is CES town/null?

I hope you feel I have answered this by now.

@lycanfire 606: I was engaging ef,not defending him. shade noted though.

VOTE: LQ
At this point I believe LQ is trying to make the people on his wagon look bad by challenging their opinions.

I agree, good vote.

No one has yet answered why fighting your lynch in inherently Scummy.

I feel I am doing that by showing them they are wrong. Look, this is pretty standard behavior for me as any alignment. I fight my SR's on me. You can look at pretty much any game and if I am SR then there is a really really good chance that I operate exactly how you are seeing me operate in this game.

It doesn't seem that way to me. You aren't trying to sort them, nor try to get them to see that they are wrong. You are trying to get them off your back, and then when it doesn't work, you vote them. Otherwise, you insult them. That doesn't work if you want to show people that they are wrong.

I am trying to sort people, I am just not spouting off everything I am considering. I am basically the anti-thesis to Llama. lama spouts off a lot of reads, and generally shoot's before they ask question. TBH, I don't think Llama has actually asked too many question this game.

Ranmaru

TSQ - Good presence in thread, most active and scumhunting.

POSTIE - Consistent scumhunting since early game, even though some of it is misguided, it is also what I have experienced with town postie.

Gamma - I like his recent contributions to the thread. His frustration seems normal to me. As scum he loses interest and doesn't put that much effort into cases, he kind of lurks until he's wagoned for not doing anything at all, and then makes excuses. He also has good tone here.

Llamarbles - I like his presence as well, although not not as present as TSQ. Yet it compliments him and I can agree to some of his reads. Hey look see Llama, that last game we played in years ago was a fluke.

Lycan - I liked his analysis on CES, and his reads. I only really like his push on CES, though.

NSG - I like her persistence in questioning CES on his scumreads, and I liked her early game response to Llama, it would be similar to what I would have done.
Dunnstrals - I like that he is getting into the game at this point. Don't know why he was less present in early game.
AD - I kind of need a vote from AD to get a better feel on him.

MARQUIS - null, I don't see scum intent but want a bit more from him
WSGEURTS - null not even here
EDDIE - null but can see what postie is saying, just doesn't stick out to me as much as T L C. Don't want no scrubs.

Tchill - Seems to post in thread for the appearance of being present, without any solid analysis. Weird vote on WGEURTZ and weird apology, which signifies guilt. Avoiding the game while playing others, and gives no indication of why.

CES - Lacks presence. Isn't scumhunting in early to mid day. Most recent votes are bad. Trying hard to avoid Tchill wagon, doesn't comment on the fact Tchill is avoiding the thread pretty hard.

LQ - Scum for omgusing Shea, and developing a read on him without being proactive. Instead he was being reactive, and isn't trying to sort him. He also misses important questions and does not try to answer them. His votes don't make sense.

OMGUSing is NOT a Scum tell. You have to be a lot more specific as to how I have not been proactive. I have basically stated ITT that I get reads by pushing people. That is my way of being proactive in my read on shea. I have constantly been trying to sort Shea. There is a lot of subtly to my read on shea that you are either not seeing or don't get. I've stated that Llama and TSQ have hard defended each other. I've also said shea has acted in a somewhat Townie way, but that I don't think he is out of his Scum range. I have also said I think he is either confbiasing me or is Scum. What about all these things I have said about shea tells you I am not sorting him? I don't feel motivated to answer every question thrown at me when I am just getting SR despite answering the questions I am. What do you mean my votes don't make sense and why does that mean I am Scum?

[LQ > CES > Tchill > Eddie]

Vote: LQ

[LicketyQuickety]

We had like a 5 page back and forth about what my scum read on your was based on. I explained it to you multiple times. We argued about it for pages.

There's literal no way you don't remember why I'm scum reading you

. This is more well poisoning.

You admitted yourself you know I have a bad memory. What the hell, man?

This isn't some passing remark, this is the fundamental and huge part of this game.

I simply do not understand

how you could possibly have a position on me and how I've played this game without some understanding of why I am scum reading you. Nor do I believe that bad memory means "don't remember a huge thing that happened like 3 days ago"

Yeah, this seems to be the source of most people's SR on me.

[Thestatusquo]

You are impressing me with how stupid you are.

Why are you resorting to insults here? You are just sniping him with insults to undermine his position as universal town read.

Well, when you cut more than half of the context out of why I said that in the first place (the second line of that post) it doesn't really do me any good to give a retort to this. My point was that Llama's methodology was WRONG in how they are coming up with reads. You can't say something like "well they said this, but meant that" without some context into why that might be. All we have to go on is what TSQ said, and I didn't see TSQ either confirm nor deny what Llama said was true, so all we really have to go by is what TSQ actually said and can't assume a motivation that isn't obviously apparent.

Lets do a pop quiz:

If shea says "I have no doubt that you would have voted me"

Does shea mean

a) "I have no doubt you would have voted me"

or

b) "I have no doubt you are scum."

Huh...

[LicketyQuickety]

~snip~

Why do I feel weird about the fact that you have the same Scum reads as most people? I mean, you were a replacement. Usually replacements see things in a different light.

Do you think his catchup was not genuine? What about the points he raised doesn't sit well with you, because it looked like a pretty organic read through to me.

I looked at where he quoted me and saw how badly he misinterpreted what was my intent. This has happened all game long from different people. I have no read on him based on this alone - it could be Town motivated or it could be Scum motivated, IDK.

Enough people were SRing me that I think me delaying D1 ending was a mistake. I am probably going to get lynched D1 and then it's going to be a total loss because people never listen to players who get lynched. Not trying to say that I have done things that would make a big impact in the game

so far

, but I know if I get time to develop some decent reads (usually my TRs are pretty good), then that is when I start to be a scary player to Scum. What people are seeing in my play, and what they are SRing me for, is having a different thought process than the norm. I don't think my behavior is really that Scummy.. It's just that people see I am playing in a non-traditional way and that puts people off and makes them want to lynch me. Not much I can do about it this game. I am very probably getting lynched this game.

Anything

else

you take issue with? All I see is you telling people off for scumreading you. As Lin-Manuel Miranda as Alexander Hamilton said, "they don't have an idea, they just hate mine". You are the "they" in that quote.

How does that make me Scum?

VOTE: GE

[LicketyQuickety]

You are impressing me with how stupid you are.

Why are you resorting to insults here? You are just sniping him with insults to undermine his position as universal town read.

Well, when you cut more than half of the context out of why I said that in the first place (the second line of that post) it doesn't really do me any good to give a retort to this. My point was that Llama's methodology was WRONG in how they are coming up with reads. You can't say something like "well they said this, but meant that" without some context into why that might be. All we have to go on is what TSQ said, and I didn't see TSQ either confirm nor deny what Llama said was true, so all we really have to go by is what TSQ actually said and can't assume a motivation that isn't obviously apparent.

Lets do a pop quiz:

If shea says "I have no doubt that you would have voted me"

Does shea mean

a) "I have no doubt you would have voted me"

or

b) "I have no doubt you are scum."

Huh...

The fuck?

So you have no doubt that I would vote you

under what condition?

That I am Scum or that I am Town? What other options are there?

[Thestatusquo]

I'm not relitigating the argument. I'm just saying the claim you're making in 850, that llamarble was interpreting my words without context and that I had done nothing to explain them and that I had never confirmed he was correct is DEMONSTRABLY false.

[Davsto]

I'm changed my mind and won't be catching up with the game from scratch and will just play with the current time

[Davsto]

That was a lie to cause temporary infuriating in tsq. Here's pages 11-15, a bit less detailed and full but I'm tired af today

What do you think about the parts of the post (most of it) that aren't directed at you?

Well that's an interesting way to sidestep what I said.

What I see is lack of consistency into the methodology to get the reads that Reck is representing. In the first case, Reck is using a mind meld read. In the second, he is using a read based on play. And in the third he is using a meta read. So it's quite confusing why Reck is using three methods to get 3 different reads.

Do you actually think its unusual to use different things to understand your surroundings as they become relevant?

No, I don't. But I do think that it shows that Reck either doesn't know what he is talking about because he is forced to use different methodologies instead of keeping the methodologies the same, or you are Scum and that is the reason for the different methodologies.

In short, Reck is using different tactics, so the goal must be the thing that is the same. See here to know what I am talking about: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=69491
Basically, I think it's a bit more Scummy than Towny the way Reck goes about making these statements.

What an utter pile of bullshit. This is the kind of "inconsistency" that feels like it's not been spotted naturally, more like forced into a read.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

I find post 125 incongruous with the Dunnstral evaluation before and after. I also would have expected in post 232 that LQ's acknowledgement of Dunntral's naked vote to be taken as a cue to look back and see why LQ would have said that, instead of making something of it.

Similarly, but much more importantly, there is disparity present between posts 105 and 231 with regard to the read on Sauce. Although 231 doesn't endorse a town read of Sauce there, it is a statement that is a far cry from the feelings expressed in 105.

I don't find anything nearly as scummy in the TSQ/Gamma back and forth as the above, but I will say that I got a strong townread of TSQ out of it.

Reading this post made me realise I'd forgotten about ActionDan's existence in this game so I read through his ISO and, while sparse, his posting seems okay and he gets a townlean right now.

Sorry I've been fairly absent, I've got exams this week. Final one is on thursday, so I'll be active once they're all out of the way. Tomorrow I've got some time to catch-up, 'll make sure to provide some input then.

rip wgeurts 2018-2018

I am so confused. You said you had a problem with me and said you thought I was shifting the goal posts and then I wrote a response to that to try to explain where my head was at. I would have thought you to at the very least be interested in that response? Idk. I have a hard time figuring out what you're doing most of the time so fuckin' just ignore me I guess I'll be over in this corner babbling like an idiot.

Well, I mean, where would the conversation stop? It has to stop at some point, right? Otherwise you could have a conversation that would never end. I chose to end the conversation at that point and see what other people have to say about it.

what the fuck is this post

I'm taking this a lot slower now Eddie, starting from the beginning. I'll get back to LQ eventually.
It takes me a lot of effort to get good reads and I'm going to put that effort in instead of just hoping that everything will magically become clear to me because I am Llamarble.

This (positive) change in attitude despite little or no verbal pressure, never mind voting pressure, is good in my eyes.

VOTE: EddieFenix

Also can we take a moment to discuss the hot garbage that is EddieFenix's ISO
It's just a bunch of sitting back and saying things from the sidelines or am I missing something here

Yeh you're also missing the very empty questions but yeh he looks bad overall at this point in catchup

[Thestatusquo]

No, you will get atrocious reads. PLEASE read the game. You won't be able to read any of this correctly without context.

[Thestatusquo]

LMAO

[Davsto]

bamboozled

[Thestatusquo]

I just got so got.

[Dunnstral]

PLEASE PbPA. I love walls, just ask Gamma in my response to their GIANT. SPOILER.

I hate you. Your wall destroyed the previous page, I don't think your wall is healthy and you should stop making it so long.

Not Voting (3): Davsto, EddieFenix, LicketyQuickety

I want you guys to keep your votes in play.

Also Ranmaru a quick update to help you stay with the times: wgeurts got replaced by Davsto

Thank you, I'm going to re-read what he said. Care to vote LQ with me? Thoughts on CES and AD?

I could vote LQ, if Tchill gets replaced I will

Replacing out isn't nai. There's scum motivation in team mafia because it's potentially helping your team.

[LicketyQuickety]

I'm not relitigating the argument. I'm just saying the claim you're making in 850, that llamarble was interpreting my words without context and that I had done nothing to explain them and that I had never confirmed he was correct is DEMONSTRABLY false.

You've basically just said that your hard defence of Llama is completely baseless because otherwise you would see that my interpretation of what you said is correct and Llama's is incorrect. Reason for this is the point I bring up (which is a valid one) is that under what condition do I always vote for you in that situation. This is a situation that has not been answered and so it is NEW. We haven't talked about this yet and if we have, I don't remember getting an answer. So what I am seeing here is although MY interpretation of what you said is true and Llama's is false, you still SR me and TR Llama. How do you account for this disparity?

[LicketyQuickety]

PLEASE PbPA. I love walls, just ask Gamma in my response to their GIANT. SPOILER.

I hate you. Your wall destroyed the previous page, I don't think your wall is healthy and you should stop making it so long.

Not Voting (3): Davsto, EddieFenix, LicketyQuickety

I want you guys to keep your votes in play.

Also Ranmaru a quick update to help you stay with the times: wgeurts got replaced by Davsto

Thank you, I'm going to re-read what he said. Care to vote LQ with me? Thoughts on CES and AD?

I could vote LQ, if Tchill gets replaced I will

Replacing out isn't nai. There's scum motivation in team mafia because it's potentially helping your team.

That makes no fucking sense at all. If you drop out of the competition, you are out of the competition. There is no motivation to drop out unless you don't want to be a apart of the competition. You get zero awards if your team wins and you drop out.

But I will say there is SOME motivation for Scum to sub out and that is mostly due to stress and not being able to handle the competition as a whole. That said, if you are a known player to dislike playing as Scum, then this puts added stress on someone playing a Scum role who doesn't want to. And with the stakes being raise because of Team mafia, the stress is amplified.

[Gamma Emerald]

~snip~

Why do I feel weird about the fact that you have the same Scum reads as most people? I mean, you were a replacement. Usually replacements see things in a different light.

Do you think his catchup was not genuine? What about the points he raised doesn't sit well with you, because it looked like a pretty organic read through to me.

I looked at where he quoted me and saw how badly he misinterpreted what was my intent. This has happened all game long from different people. I have no read on him based on this alone - it could be Town motivated or it could be Scum motivated, IDK.

Enough people were SRing me that I think me delaying D1 ending was a mistake. I am probably going to get lynched D1 and then it's going to be a total loss because people never listen to players who get lynched. Not trying to say that I have done things that would make a big impact in the game

so far

, but I know if I get time to develop some decent reads (usually my TRs are pretty good), then that is when I start to be a scary player to Scum. What people are seeing in my play, and what they are SRing me for, is having a different thought process than the norm. I don't think my behavior is really that Scummy.. It's just that people see I am playing in a non-traditional way and that puts people off and makes them want to lynch me. Not much I can do about it this game. I am very probably getting lynched this game.

Anything

else

you take issue with? All I see is you telling people off for scumreading you. As Lin-Manuel Miranda as Alexander Hamilton said, "they don't have an idea, they just hate mine". You are the "they" in that quote.

How does that make me Scum?

VOTE: GE

Because you are cracking under pressure, You are trying to deal with scumreads on you but you don't have any good ideas on what else you could push so you just choose to discredit the ones attacking you. If you want me to stop suspecting you, you'e going to need to actually play proactively: point fingers, make cases, that sort of thing.

[Gamma Emerald]

PLEASE PbPA. I love walls, just ask Gamma in my response to their GIANT. SPOILER.

I hate you. Your wall destroyed the previous page, I don't think your wall is healthy and you should stop making it so long.

Not Voting (3): Davsto, EddieFenix, LicketyQuickety

I want you guys to keep your votes in play.

Also Ranmaru a quick update to help you stay with the times: wgeurts got replaced by Davsto

Thank you, I'm going to re-read what he said. Care to vote LQ with me? Thoughts on CES and AD?

I could vote LQ, if Tchill gets replaced I will

Replacing out isn't nai. There's scum motivation in team mafia because it's potentially helping your team.

It's NAI, but I'd like to give the replacement a chance to make an impression
Also no it's not helping his team, replacing leads to potential loss of points, which is a negative

[Ranmaru]

LQ I will respond after work. Why are people voting Gamma for one post when I am seeing him post pro-town posts like the above two.

[Gamma Emerald]

LQ I will respond after work. Why are people voting Gamma for one post when I am seeing him post pro-town posts like the above two.

I think his main reason for voting me is why I'm scumreading him (as in he's voting me because of my reasoning, not my reasoning is based on that, but LQ voting me like that doesn't help matters either)

[Gamma Emerald]

btw Something_smart would like to say
dammit davsto

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

#824 is impressively long given that it has ~0 pro-town content in it.

@

CES

: Why did you vote Marble in your #68? If you answered that, can you quote/link? Also, can you respond or quote/link answer to my response to your #526?

I didn't want to place a sixth vote on Marquis at that time and if I wasn't going to place a serious vote, I figured I'd might as well needle 'marble.

As for #526, 1) awkwardness is scummy because townies can just say whatever they're thinking whereas scum have ulterior motive (e.g. don't draw too much attention) straight away. Not the strongest scum tell in general, but pretty solid when applied to early posts before scum have a chance to get their bearings. 2) Re: the representative thing, I think scum do occasionally force some sort of gimmick just to elicit the "why would scum do that?" response; on its own it wouldn't be that scummy but knowing that he did the same thing in the previous Team Mafia when given a Mafia role PM makes it a hell of a lot scummier.

[Dunnstral]

That makes no fucking sense at all. If you drop out of the competition, you are out of the competition. There is no motivation to drop out unless you don't want to be a apart of the competition. You get zero awards if your team wins and you drop out.

But I will say there is SOME motivation for Scum to sub out and that is mostly due to stress and not being able to handle the competition as a whole. That said, if you are a known player to dislike playing as Scum, then this puts added stress on someone playing a Scum role who doesn't want to. And with the stakes being raise because of Team mafia, the stress is amplified.

It's team mafia, you're still helping your friends win, that is a motivation

[Dunnstral]

replacing leads to potential loss of points, which is a negative

ok, I actually didn't know this.

[Gamma Emerald]

replacing leads to potential loss of points, which is a negative

ok, I actually didn't know this.

Alright then, thanks for telling us

[LicketyQuickety]

LQ I will respond after work. Why are people voting Gamma for one post when I am seeing him post pro-town posts like the above two.

I think his main reason for voting me is why I'm scumreading him (as in he's voting me because of my reasoning, not my reasoning is based on that, but LQ voting me like that doesn't help matters either)

No, there was also your shady vote shenanigans earlier in the game revolving around Shea and I also talked about how you are voting Chill but made a case on me.

People are going to read this post and not know what the fuck I am talking about because it's prolly over most peoples heads as to why that makes your behavior Scummy. I don't really care. People are not really trying to sort me. They have made up their mind that I am Scum based on completely misinterpreting my motivation. I don't have the drive to explain why the above makes what you did Scummy. If people really want me to explain it I will, but I am loosing hope for this game.