Mafia 107 - Christmas Time Mafia (Game over)

[CryMeARiver]

Just came in as a replacement...starting to read through this HUGE thread and I'm fascinated you guys have 32 pages and you're not really close to coming to an agreement on a lynch. As a read, I smell scum in a few places

[CryMeARiver]

*As I read*

[CryMeARiver]

Quite a few observations based on what I know so far:
Ready2Rock confuses me...he's sort of lurking by not making many bold statements, then saying he promises a full analysis the next day...I haven't seen one yet

Based on what I've read, it looks like you guys have been attacking Sorasgoof for the wrong reasons and I believe him when he says he's vanilla townie...Your trying to hard to catch him on small things and I believe him when he didn't understand the roleblocker position just like I believe Richard when he said he didn't know what RVS was

I don't really like RichardGHP because he claimed to be JoaT, yet he isn't able to kill someone? That's usually part of the JoaT...he's claiming a rare position in the first place and then he's adding a clause to the position? But I would vote him off just in case he is jack of all trades...if he doesn't give us some info after day 2/3, I'd start accusing him

People that haven't been posting in a while either have a position they don't like (townie/serial killer) or are lurking as scum

More to come...

[CryMeARiver]

Oh, and I appreciate some players great thoughts such as Nicodemus (though not so often) and Annachie who analyzes both sides of an argument rather than outright accusing someone which wouldn't be very mob-like

[CryMeARiver]

EBWOP: the above post came out wrong...i'm saying that annachie doesn't act very mob-like, not the other way around

[CryMeARiver]

But I would vote him [RichardGHP] off just in case he is jack of all trades...if he doesn't give us some info after day 2/3, I'd start accusing him.

So...you want to vote him off why? What do you mean "just in case" he is a JoaT? Jack of all Trades are beneficial to the town, usually.

Also, I'd say if he doesn't give us some information by Day TWO we need to seriously start accusing him.

Dang...another mistake...that should have been wouldn't...by the general tone of my paragraph you should be able to tell I meant to say "wouldn't"

[CryMeARiver]

btw, accusations will be in by the end of the weekend...I have a calling during the week...it's called a life, lol

[CryMeARiver]

@CrymeaRiver

Sorasgoof hasn't been the only person to call out Pman. I've given thoughts on him (and am still currently voting him), as well as a couple others.

Diddin:
Crymeariver hadn't posted anything, yet you feel he's town based on his hatred of noobs? What about Cookie makes you think he's town?

Diddin was referring to Cookie when he said I'm town based on hatred of noobs...The mod replaced him with me therefore i have his position...whatever you thought he was based on his arguments should go for me as well

[CryMeARiver]

Mod, my vote for TheLonging should not count as I forgot to unvote first. It is pretty surprising that nobody noticed it, but that was the point. TheLonging should've never been at L-1, technically speaking.
Nothing has changed about TheLonging being scum, though.

This post really bugs me, specifically the last sentence...you don't want to vote for TheLonging, yet you are positive of him being scum...then you go on to unvote him...

POS

:

Parama

TheLonging

RichardGHP

Watching: DoS
So far, though I have skimmed much, I am not near completing my analysis yet...But as for who I am getting a scum feeling from includes TheLonging, RichardGHP, and a little from DoS...

Kind of surprised that TheLonging being at L1 twice thing broke up so quickly just because he claimed a role that is weak and anybody could easily have claimed...it's likely that we won't get a scum on Day 1 lynching, so I'm surprised that you didn't just lynch him because of the many suspicious feelings he gave off (OMGUS vote, contradictions...), it's not like you lose an important role by lynching him if he's a townie, yet you gain much if he's scum

Richard's been trying to be really confusing acting noobish, then acting full of knowledge about the game and his claim as JoaT is a perfect claim for scum as previously explained by someone else...also, him claiming he doesn't have a kill as a night action raises much suspicion since that's common for a JoaT

DoS just is a gut feeling

[CryMeARiver]

Richard's been trying to be really confusing acting noobish, then acting full of knowledge about the game and his claim as JoaT is a perfect claim for scum as previously explained by someone else...also, him claiming he doesn't have a kill as a night action raises much suspicion since that's common for a JoaT.

I wouldn't say JoaT is the perfect claim for scum, seeing as how it would be extremely difficult to pull off if you are not actually a JoaT. It would take a smart and experienced player to successfully fakeclaim something like that.

Also, there is no rule that says a JoaT absolutely has to have a kill, or any specific night action for that matter. Sure, he will typically get a kill but there are exceptions to every rule.

As CCR put it...

"Think about it, for scum, JoaT is a great claim, because of the Jacks very specific actions.

And when someone asks him to use his investigation tonight, he, as a mafia member, knows exactly who is and isn’t mafia, so he can claim that he investigated anybody else, and since he knows that person must flip town, he can just say that person flipped town after his investigation."

[CryMeARiver]

CMAR: It's obvious that CCR could be wrong because a scum would be crazy to call JoaT. It's actually going to be hard to fake the investigation, or any of his other abilities. That's where CCR's logic is flawed.

Beep diddin.

No...because 2 other players have already claimed townie...all he has to do is say he investigated sorasgoof and "confirm" that he's a townie, if he really is scum...and if sora was scum as well, then sora still couldn't say anything without giving himself up...he could also backstab another mafia member, if he was scum, by saying that he investigated said scum and found out that he is indeed scum...one could easily fake the investigation...yet faking the kill is much harder(actually impossible I think), which could be why Richard is saying he doesn't have the power of a kill...

[CryMeARiver]

@CMAR:

Apparently EtherealCookie had his vote on me before he left. You said you don't find me scum, so are you going to lift that vote?

Also, just as a heads-up, we have a little less than 2 weeks until the deadline.

While that post seems rather hurried to take another vote off of you, I still don't believe you're scum and therefore lift my vote

Unvote

[/b]

[CryMeARiver]

I'm hearing what a lot of you guys are saying, and I think that NavyCherub summed it up nicely

@Raven: Your entire post feels like a great example of trying too hard. You're not looking for scum as much as you chose someone to be scum and then started building a case around a possibility instead of facts. That just isn't productive, and seems forced to me. So, FoS: Raven.

I think you're right, I had this great idea that Richard was faking JoaT that I was finding scummy posts when there really wasn't anything to find, I was just making stuff up. Also, Pie made a great point about Richard's investigation and using him to our advantage, so I'm going to

unvote: RichardGHP

I'm going to withhold a vote for now. I've had my head wrapped around Richard for a good two or three RL days, so I'm going to have to go through again and find some scum.

This is also the reason that I haven't already voted for Richard...though I think he is scum, it is all hypothetical...I think that he should prove to us that he is the JoaT by using his investigation on someone we are unsure of their role and are already suspicious of

[CryMeARiver]

I thought the Jack could only be PT? I've never heard of a Pro-Mafia Jack.

This post screams "Oh shit I've been caught" to me by the way. Its way too nervous.

unvote vote RichardGHP

Love this post...completely agree with it

[CryMeARiver]

In other words, noobclaim. Research a role before you claim it.

*headdesk/facepalm*

For your information, I actually did research the JoaT after the varying alignment thing was brought up, and I only found him in the "Protagonistic" section.

I for one am sick and tired of people saying I'm noobclaiming when I'm not.

You really had no reason to research it...the pm you received should say which side you are on as well as what night actions you have...research of a role should only have to be done if you are faking a claim truly...

[CryMeARiver]

I really don't find Diddin that scummy...but I would hammer the crap out of just about anyone now just to get this day over with...but I don't find him scummy, so until it gets close, I'll withhold my vote on him...

PoS: RichardGHP, TheLonging

[CryMeARiver]

"Person A did this - that's scummy"

"Well Person B did this - that's also scummy, but Person A is scummy too."

"Oh yeah, well Person C did this - that's REALLY scummy, albeit Person A and B are scummy too!"

lawlcrackers.

But yeah, diddin your vote doesn't make a whole lot of sense (except as an OMGUS, in which case it makes perfect sense). People still have to decide for themselves if they think you are scummy and want to vote for you or not, which they have been doing (regardless of my "telling EVERYONE to vote for you") for the past 2 pages:

Voted for you: Richard, Navy
Verbally committed to voting for you: Pie, Konowa
Promised to look back over the situation and determine if a vote for you was a good decision: pman
Refused to vote for you (at this time anyway): Parama
Ignored the issue completely: Flareonage, CCARaven, TL

See? There has been a wide range of reactions to my blanket invitation. I put down my vote for who I thought was the scummiest player so far in the game, and I extended the invitation to every other player to do the same if they thought it was the right decision.

Also, inviting =/= telling. Just saying.

EbwoP Nicodemus

Verbally committed to voting for you: Pie, Konowa,

CMAR

[CryMeARiver]

Hammer time

[CryMeARiver]

Well, if you are so hell-bent on lynching me, go ahead, and enjoy your townie lynch.

his only defense..? To this:

*sigh*
Doing a diddin ISO read, not going into as much detail as the DoS one.
95 - First real post, jumps on the established TL bandwagon and FoS the other potential wagon. Bandwagon-ish post, especially for being his first post in the thread.
Plus, he admits his vote is OMGUS and votes specifically for the reason that TL voted him... in RVS. Wow. Man, can't believe I didn't see this earlier.
191 - After not saying anything for nearly 100 posts, shows up again to jump off the crumbling TL wagon. FoSes pman, but likely withholds vote because there's no established wagon on him yet, trying to avoid appearing scummy.
225 - Terrible No Lynch vote, which is always a bad idea. Intent to not form an opinion, basically. Trying to stay off scumdars by not posting much and not forming an opinion.
232 - Quickly removes No Lynch vote after being called out for it. All he's trying to do is remain out of the center of attention, and that's pretty scummy if you ask me. It's different from lurking; he's participating but not adding anything, and trying to be ignored.
236 - Response to Pie to defend his unvote; WIFOM argument that I find incredibly weak.
243 - Lots of suspicions, but then he doesn't FoS or vote any of them? Plus a lot of his reasons are iffy.
255 - Possible Nvay-diddin scumlink, defending Nvay for no apparent reason. Does not want to speculate; I don't remember if he does take part in the speculation or not but I'll be looking for the easy contradictions.
264 - Again, taking a stance on Richard and calling him really scummy but then refusing to vote for him. Passive play is never a good idea.
315 - Finally decides to vote, but AFTER the claim. Putting off this vote for so long only ended up hurting diddin in the end, I do not like his hesitancy to vote Richard or the timing of the vote.
423 - Yep, next post is over 100 posts later. I honestly can't understand what he's trying to say here; the grammar is all screwed up. Starts out by mention DoS but never mentions him again in the post, instead goes back to focusing on Richard.
I also realize that at this point diddin has done absolutely no scumhunting of note :/ Man, I must've missed a lot of his posts, this guy is pretty scummy...
CONTINUING ON...
471 - still focusing on Richard, though the wagon is dead at this point... and still focused only on the roleclaim. Diddin's just tunneling here, really, not much to be said on the matter.
489 - Hey look, diddin's jumping on the nearest bandwagon. Also, his argument can apply to himself, as well - a lot of the people in this game are newbies, diddin being no exception. We had to pressure the mod into allowing the SH-mafia players into this game.
494 - Trying to cover his tracks - "Hey guys, I said something earlier but this is what I really meant, I'm not scum!"
495 - What a hypocrite. See above responses to diddin-posts.
555 - Responses to each point:
1. Had already been covered earlier in the thread
2. Again, hypocrisy at its finest. Diddin was the one waiting on a wagon.
3. Meh, don't care about this one, kind of a silly reason
4. Just like what you're doing? Oh boy!
650 - Okay, back to Richard again. Except, states that he's not going to vote for him today. Questions for diddin: What makes you see a Richard-soras scum pairing? What do you find scummy about each of them individually? You haven't really said much on the matter.
659 - This could be a valid point, but ckd brings up a good point - Richard and soras are really bussing each other a lot, more than I'd think scum are safe doing.
730 - Top 3 suspicions: 1. Current Wagon, 2. Noobclaimer/Past Wagon, 3. The Lurker.
Hmm, and diddin still seems to be focused on Richard's roleclaim more than anything else. I think the claim is making him really paranoid.
788 - Town lists, which are at the same time scummy as well as giving the mafia information they can use to decide NKs. BAD. I thought we were past the town lists at this point. And the reasons for Pie and CMAR are pretty thin.
851 - Crumbling wagon leads to unvote... back to a Richard-Soras scumlink... more on why CMAR is town... yet ABSOLUTELY NOTHING NEW OR RELEVANT. Hmm.
902 - aka, he's going to wait for a wagon, and jump on it if one does form. UGH. Stop it. Stop it now diddin. If you are scum, your play is just atrocious. If you are town, it's even more atrocious.
903 - Be right back after I'm done ROFLing. Oh my God diddin, what the hell were you thinking?
...
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH ZOMG HAHAHAH LOLOLOL HAHAH ROFLMAO HAHAHAHAHAHH bghvy gbvhty hjnub junkik mij

This is the funniest post ever. I nominate it for failure of the year.
...
Why do I find this hilarious? He just contradicted his own play throughout the game, RIGHT BELOW one such example of play similar to what he's calling people out for.
923 - Richard misrep. WHEEEEEEEEEEE
963 - I think we should keep diddin alive just for comedic purposes. This is just hilarious now xD. Nice obvious OMGUS there.
967 - Not a very senseless wagon IMO. Nicocenter's specific reason is bad but he's got good reasons to lynch you outline earlier.
969 - And let's ignore the fact that Nico gave plenty of reasons, shall we?

So yeah diddin's actually pretty obvscum. Regardless of this, I'm staying with DoS.
But...
@DragonsofSummer and diddin: Thoughts on each other?

Yeah...

unvote whoever I was voting for; vote Didden

I kinda decided that since my attention span doesn't work that way, instead of reading 40 pages in sequential order, I'll be reading each player's posts separately, checking their metagames, and backwards reading.

[CryMeARiver]

Well, if you are so hell-bent on lynching me, go ahead, and enjoy your townie lynch.

his only defense..? To this:

*sigh*
Doing a diddin ISO read, not going into as much detail as the DoS one.
95 - First real post, jumps on the established TL bandwagon and FoS the other potential wagon. Bandwagon-ish post, especially for being his first post in the thread.
Plus, he admits his vote is OMGUS and votes specifically for the reason that TL voted him... in RVS. Wow. Man, can't believe I didn't see this earlier.
191 - After not saying anything for nearly 100 posts, shows up again to jump off the crumbling TL wagon. FoSes pman, but likely withholds vote because there's no established wagon on him yet, trying to avoid appearing scummy.
225 - Terrible No Lynch vote, which is always a bad idea. Intent to not form an opinion, basically. Trying to stay off scumdars by not posting much and not forming an opinion.
232 - Quickly removes No Lynch vote after being called out for it. All he's trying to do is remain out of the center of attention, and that's pretty scummy if you ask me. It's different from lurking; he's participating but not adding anything, and trying to be ignored.
236 - Response to Pie to defend his unvote; WIFOM argument that I find incredibly weak.
243 - Lots of suspicions, but then he doesn't FoS or vote any of them? Plus a lot of his reasons are iffy.
255 - Possible Nvay-diddin scumlink, defending Nvay for no apparent reason. Does not want to speculate; I don't remember if he does take part in the speculation or not but I'll be looking for the easy contradictions.
264 - Again, taking a stance on Richard and calling him really scummy but then refusing to vote for him. Passive play is never a good idea.
315 - Finally decides to vote, but AFTER the claim. Putting off this vote for so long only ended up hurting diddin in the end, I do not like his hesitancy to vote Richard or the timing of the vote.
423 - Yep, next post is over 100 posts later. I honestly can't understand what he's trying to say here; the grammar is all screwed up. Starts out by mention DoS but never mentions him again in the post, instead goes back to focusing on Richard.
I also realize that at this point diddin has done absolutely no scumhunting of note :/ Man, I must've missed a lot of his posts, this guy is pretty scummy...
CONTINUING ON...
471 - still focusing on Richard, though the wagon is dead at this point... and still focused only on the roleclaim. Diddin's just tunneling here, really, not much to be said on the matter.
489 - Hey look, diddin's jumping on the nearest bandwagon. Also, his argument can apply to himself, as well - a lot of the people in this game are newbies, diddin being no exception. We had to pressure the mod into allowing the SH-mafia players into this game.
494 - Trying to cover his tracks - "Hey guys, I said something earlier but this is what I really meant, I'm not scum!"
495 - What a hypocrite. See above responses to diddin-posts.
555 - Responses to each point:
1. Had already been covered earlier in the thread
2. Again, hypocrisy at its finest. Diddin was the one waiting on a wagon.
3. Meh, don't care about this one, kind of a silly reason
4. Just like what you're doing? Oh boy!
650 - Okay, back to Richard again. Except, states that he's not going to vote for him today. Questions for diddin: What makes you see a Richard-soras scum pairing? What do you find scummy about each of them individually? You haven't really said much on the matter.
659 - This could be a valid point, but ckd brings up a good point - Richard and soras are really bussing each other a lot, more than I'd think scum are safe doing.
730 - Top 3 suspicions: 1. Current Wagon, 2. Noobclaimer/Past Wagon, 3. The Lurker.
Hmm, and diddin still seems to be focused on Richard's roleclaim more than anything else. I think the claim is making him really paranoid.
788 - Town lists, which are at the same time scummy as well as giving the mafia information they can use to decide NKs. BAD. I thought we were past the town lists at this point. And the reasons for Pie and CMAR are pretty thin.
851 - Crumbling wagon leads to unvote... back to a Richard-Soras scumlink... more on why CMAR is town... yet ABSOLUTELY NOTHING NEW OR RELEVANT. Hmm.
902 - aka, he's going to wait for a wagon, and jump on it if one does form. UGH. Stop it. Stop it now diddin. If you are scum, your play is just atrocious. If you are town, it's even more atrocious.
903 - Be right back after I'm done ROFLing. Oh my God diddin, what the hell were you thinking?
...
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH ZOMG HAHAHAH LOLOLOL HAHAH ROFLMAO HAHAHAHAHAHH bghvy gbvhty hjnub junkik mij

This is the funniest post ever. I nominate it for failure of the year.
...
Why do I find this hilarious? He just contradicted his own play throughout the game, RIGHT BELOW one such example of play similar to what he's calling people out for.
923 - Richard misrep. WHEEEEEEEEEEE
963 - I think we should keep diddin alive just for comedic purposes. This is just hilarious now xD. Nice obvious OMGUS there.
967 - Not a very senseless wagon IMO. Nicocenter's specific reason is bad but he's got good reasons to lynch you outline earlier.
969 - And let's ignore the fact that Nico gave plenty of reasons, shall we?

So yeah diddin's actually pretty obvscum. Regardless of this, I'm staying with DoS.
But...
@DragonsofSummer and diddin: Thoughts on each other?

Yeah...

unvote whoever I was voting for; vote Didden

I kinda decided that since my attention span doesn't work that way, instead of reading 40 pages in sequential order, I'll be reading each player's posts separately, checking their metagames, and backwards reading.

Ebwop: computer went wack...

I did the same thing...was mixing things up after reading quite a few pages...so instead i just read each players posts separately...still don't think diddin is scum, but glad the day is over

[CryMeARiver]

richard, when someone asked you to "claim" they are also asking you to "claim" what you did...so you have avoided the question..please CLAIM what you did last night.

---
i think we have a SK/and a vig...I am pretty sure the popper is the vig. I also find it strange that neither the mafia or the Sk wanted to kills the claimed "tracker" or "joat". But with both alive, it doesnt mean much, just something I thinks to be noted.

I need to reread Nic, but mafia is loading SOOOO slow for some reason.

Just reading through latest posts, but I think what might have happened with that is that Nic protected Dizzy, Dizzy was attacked, therefore Nic died...Nic stated that he'll "do whatever it takes to protect Dizzy" or something along those lines...interesting point that no one is targeting Richard though...possible scumtell? I'm starting to believe his JoaT claim though...more to come...sorry I missed the Navy lynch...just happened so fast

[CryMeARiver]

In my mind, the slicer is a serial killer for sure...not sure why he chose Flareonage on day 1, but on day 2, he most likely targeted Dizzy as a tracker, but Dizzy was protected by bodyguard Nic, so Nic died...

Also, I'm pretty sure that the shooter is scumteam...2 town results, though not really sure why they would target Parama since he was receiving some heat by his town buddies and could have resulted in another day lynch of a townie

Number 3 is probably some sort of vigilante or a role that accidentally kills...not really enough info, but vigilante would make sense because DoS was a suspect as scum by some

[CryMeARiver]

richard, when someone asked you to "claim" they are also asking you to "claim" what you did...so you have avoided the question..please CLAIM what you did last night.

Ah, I see.

In that case, I felt like I had a choice of protecting Dizzy or protecting myself, since one of us were bound to be targetted. I figured we had a doctor or bodyguard (Nicodemus) who would be on Dizzy anyways so I commuted.

So all you have is a protect left?

[CryMeARiver]

richard, when someone asked you to "claim" they are also asking you to "claim" what you did...so you have avoided the question..please CLAIM what you did last night.

Ah, I see.

In that case, I felt like I had a choice of protecting Dizzy or protecting myself, since one of us were bound to be targetted. I figured we had a doctor or bodyguard (Nicodemus) who would be on Dizzy anyways so I commuted.

So all you have is a protect left?

And a roleblock.

I don't agree with TL's vote of pman at first glance but I might do a PBPA of him later today to see if it's legit or a bus.

I know that people are going to jump all over me for speculating about roles, but I suggest that you don't use your protect on Izzy tonight as you might think is the correct move...That might become useful later and I think it would be safe to speculate that there is a doctor or another protective role in the game that can protect Izzy...unless someone comes up obviously dirty, I would not waste a roleblock either...and please don't take this the wrong way by thinking I'm scum because I don't want you to protect Izzy...I know what I'm talking about

[CryMeARiver]

Had half a PBPA of pman set up and my internet went down. Meh.

From what I remember though, I don't think a vote on him is warranted. FoS maybe, not vote though from what I had quted of his.

Now, for some good ol' fashoined speculating.

With a bodyguard dead, I doubt that there are two more sane, town-aligned doctors out there so either myself or Dizzy is probably dead tonight. Or both.

I don't think the vote is much different from the FoS at this point...he's just establishing that he suspects pman...now if there were already a bunch of votes on him, then then the vote wouldn't be warranted for the reasons (or should I say lack of reasons) that TL posted

[CryMeARiver]

richard, when someone asked you to "claim" they are also asking you to "claim" what you did...so you have avoided the question..please CLAIM what you did last night.

Ah, I see.

In that case, I felt like I had a choice of protecting Dizzy or protecting myself, since one of us were bound to be targetted. I figured we had a doctor or bodyguard (Nicodemus) who would be on Dizzy anyways so I commuted.

WHOA WHOA WHOA...first of all you can protect yourself?!?

second, you ASSUMED that someone would protect dizzy so you commuted?

I cant believe this...not at all.

you are asking me to swallow the fact that we have (mostly likely) two commuters plus your commute...the fact that you have a doc ability that you a.) can use on yourself and b.) that you DIDNT use to protect someone that just nailed scum?

you also want me to swallow that you have a doc ability that can be used on yourself...AND a commuting ability that is essentially the same FUCKING THING?

that seems completely insane to me.

.....

also I havent forgotten sora's "what about a mafia RB, before we had any knowledge of any type of RB yet" post either...

By protecting himself, I believe he meant commuting...he isn't able to use his protect on himself I don't believe...Nic said, "I will do whatever I can to protect Dizzy", so it was safe to assume that Dizzy would be safe

[CryMeARiver]

oh I see.....so he is saying he could protect himself (by commuting)..not by a protection (by doc)..misread that.....that is easier to swallow.

that's what I'd think...pretty sure that no one with a protective role is able to protect themselves

[CryMeARiver]

I didnt even see that post from Nic..however, seeing that he was sliced....I dont think anyone tried to kill dizzy last night.

It is possible because one of the things that a bodyguard might have is

Wiki says:

A role that functions like a normal Doctor, but dies if the protected player is attacked.

Someone might have attacked Dizzy, but Nic died instead because he had protected Dizzy[/u]

[CryMeARiver]

hey Dick relax..I missed read your post...you said protect when you claimed you have a one shot protect..I thought you meant through the doc..which was/is hard to believe. that was my problem.

lol at the capital D in dick...Richard = Dick...nice pun

[CryMeARiver]

@at cry...maybe..

ok..I am putting this out there because I think it is...well, i dont want to say important..but it is more information....

I am a neighbor.....there is a 4th neighbor too....now, there are two neighbors down and both flipped town, thoughts? Could there be 4 neighbors that are all town or do you think that there might be scum in that mix? Not sure exactly the purpose of a neighbor in this game...they are not masons so, meh.

the only thing I can think of is a way to bread crumb the moves without putting it in the main thread...at any rate, I dont see where nic did that last night during conversation.

my question, do you deem it important information to find out who the 4th neighbor is..why or why not?

What are you trying to say here?
Sounds like you're trying to hint at something without outright saying it...My thought is that if none of you are masons, the mod made you guys because one of you is scum...What are you trying to "breadcrum" at...are you not allowed to state what goes on in your conversation or who the 4th neighbor is? Tell us if you can who the neighbor is...Nic's post is PS 1123 where he says

Well, I strongly, strongly believe Dizzy's claim, and I will be doing everything in my power to protect him tomorrow.

Sleep well town.

Anyway, could you be a lot clearer in this post???

[CryMeARiver]

I just had to say this:

The only thing I can recall that's semi-suspicious about him is the fact that he asked me what I thought was a town-tell. Who knows if he wanted opinions to help him choose his NK?

I WAS FUCKING RIGHT! Take THAT, everyone who was suspicious of that statement! You would not believe how happy I was when Navy flipped scum.

Anyway, @Bogre: If nothing has changed since Day 1, why are you only voting for him now?

I'm going to go against what I said earlier...I think you should protect Dizzy and just hope to god that someone with protection abilities protects you...does anyone know if neighbors are allowed to reveal what they talk about at night?

[CryMeARiver]

Also, CKD...in the PM from the mod, did he specifically say that the neighbor group was good???

Wiki says:

Sometimes, one member of the masonry group is a scum mason, a person in the masonry who is secretly part of the mafia or some other scum group. This occasionally happens in games where the moderater does not specifically tell all masons that they are all town. (See: unconfirmed masons, sometimes called "Neighbors")

Mafia masons are not a very common role, but just the possibility that one might exist often leads to paranoia and distrust within the mason group.

[CryMeARiver]

ok, I dont think you know what a neighbor is.

I know what a neighbor is...

Wiki says...

Neighbors

A Neighbor is a person who may night talk with one or more other people, but no one in the group is certain of the others' alignments. This can lead to the effect of having a "game-within-a-game" for mason members to try to discover if a Mafia Mason (or a Serial Killer-mason) is amongst them.

PokerFace popularized this term as an alternative for Unconfirmed Masons.

the reason I am putting this out there..is that I dont know what function neighbors have on a game...also, curious what people's thoughts were...would a mod have 4 neighbors and all of them town?

neighbors can discuss more among themselves...if they are all town, they can reveal what their night actions revealed without scum knowing...if some are scum, the town can weed out the scum...

I know who the last neighbor is....I am curious if the town wants to know..if so why?

yes...just in case he is scum...i would like to assume that one of you is scum and that is why the mod put you guys together, so you could weed each other out...i'd also be interested in what you guys discussed at night

Bog, who was talking about kill types? Can you please reinstate your case...you can repost it if you like, but would like to see it again. do you have him as mafia or the SK? your thoughts on sora?

Me and Dizzy were discussing kill types...

R2R, who is the SK? why? who is mafia...why? which is more important to kill today, why?

The golden question, why would R2R know? serial killer would be nice to weed out, but I don't think he's as important to kill...someone on town with a roleblocker ability, which I'd assume there would be since we established there is probably a SK, could just keep blocking him...we should focus on killing town as our main importance though[/u]

[CryMeARiver]

Top scum suspects (in no particular order):
The Longing, Raven, R2R, DedicatedScribe

Though some hate when people do this, who I think are town:
Me, Richard, Dizzy, Konowa, soras, Pie (replaced)

Not sure of:
CKD, Bogre, pman

This is just to organize my thoughts...further analysis later

[CryMeARiver]

Why do you think I am scum CMAR?

Let's see some of the dumb things you have done...

We obviously can't go a lot of places now since it's only the first day.

Then again, RVS voting can only get us so far. We can't grab a lot of info based on these 4 pages.

If anything, I find a random lynch one of the best options we have

unless someone basically acts very scummy. Then again, I don't even know who we could lynch.

1.

Yes, that was in part an OMGUS vote towards him

. In hindsight, I should have not cast the vote at all, but at the time I aimed for Kona.

2.

I didn't notice the bandwagon on CSL at all

until I read it over a few times, but I thought nothing of it tbh because of RVS.

3. My only idea(es) right now is to either:

A)

Random lynch (very bad)

B) Argue for a while with each other until we find someone we're pretty sure is scummy and vote for them

I'm gonna look through the thread again,

my last few posts have been half-assed and really stupid

.

Yeah I don't think random lynching will do us good at all. I don't really find anything scummy about the CSL bandwagon at all.

Bogre: I don't see how we could be connected. If he wants to vote for me, he should have done it.

With regard to the CSL bandwagon...

Yeah I noticed that it was a wagon

, but I thought nothing of it because it was during the time when we voted randomly really.

I find CSL very suspicious

because he's lurking instead of contributing at all to the thread.

I find DragonsofSummer suspicious now because he's blatantly wagoning on CSL

, and even though it was RVS, it's still just trying to get him closer to a lynch.

1. random lynch good or bad? contradiction
2. Day 1 is very useful as you get a feel for everyone
3. Admitting that you OMGUS voted?
4. I didn't notice/noticed the CSL wagon...contradiction
5. admitting that your posts have been terrible...either very noobish or scummy
6. I don't find anything about the CSL wagon scummy, but DoS is suspicious because he wagoned CSL...contradiction
7. I find CSL scummy, but I don't agree with the wagon on him...contradiction

Not to mention, this was all on the SAME DAY! Screw going over everything else, since Richard covered a large chunk of it...Excluding your most recent vote on Pman (who is suspicious in the eyes of many others...creating a bandwagon perhaps?) your votes since RVS have been waffling on sorasgoof (in my mind, town) and richard (most likely town) like 3 times with the tide of everyone elses' votes, then joining the huge bandwagons of diddin and DoS (both town), waffling a few times with the tide of others' votes...let's assume that you are scum based on all these reasons...then, you have a very safe claim on top of it...I deem thee scum!

Vote: TheLonging

[CryMeARiver]

cry what has sora done you deem town?

I just think that your main case against him, that he speculated about a roleblocker, is pointless

Everyone speculates about roles, whether they want to admit it or not, whether is subconsciously or blatantly...And, as said earlier, I believe that his noobishness resulted in him not fully understanding the role of a roleblocker, just like Richard didn't understand RVS and many others have had various questions on roles...Other than this point, I don't think anyone else has made a large case on him...if I'm wrong, I'd like to see a summary of his misdeeds...

[CryMeARiver]

Whoops just noticed bad tags. Not gonna fix that.

"1. random lynch good or bad? contradiction" Well you do know that RL is bad. In the IRC games I have played before this, RL helped us a lot, but not in forum games apparently. I even acknowledged it was bad.

Yes, you acknowledged it was bad, I bolded that in two different places...I still don't understand why you wanted a random lynch...imagine someone as scum (or just yourself)...a random lynch in a large group is one of the best things they can get...

"2. Day 1 is very useful as you get a feel for everyone"

You noticed how D1 had dragged on for ages with no leads for a while, and it took so long until we decided on a lynch? That's why I hate D1.

Yes, but it still helps and trying to end it quickly is never a good thing...unless you are scum

"3. Admitting that you OMGUS voted?"

Did you read why I voted for Konowa? Like, at all? You haven't. Read that part, then come back.

I read it, that is why I wondered why you said it was an OMGUS vote...I didn't see it that way at all

"7. I find CSL scummy, but I don't agree with the wagon on him...contradiction "

Wagon during RVS, I didn't like. Lurking throughout D1, I didn't like.

Ok, makes

some

sense...I don't consider 5 hours lurking exactly, but whatever

"6. I don't find anything about the CSL wagon scummy, but DoS is suspicious because he wagoned CSL...contradiction"

I think he wagoned on CSL long after RVS, which is why I found him suspicious.

He wagoned on the overall post number 17...he practically began the RVS with this vote...so,

wrong

...

"5. admitting that your posts have been terrible...either very noobish or scummy "

So I should assume all my posts are perfect from now on? I know they aren't perfect, they were in fact terrible. Not a scumtell at all?

No need to post that your posts suck though...if they do, it's obvious...it does provide a good noob cover up for scum though

"4. I didn't notice/noticed the CSL wagon...contradiction"

I didn't pay attention to wagons at all during the RVS, and noticed it when Navy brought it up.

Someone didn't notice 5 votes on one person in the first 2-3 pages?...I find that rather hard to believe...

Any more questions? I'll be back to answer them tomorrow morning.

how about addressing the above, as well as your voting patterns that I pointed out

[CryMeARiver]

Just so everyone gets a picture of TheLonging's voting patterns...

Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 2:30 pm
Vote: RichardGHP

Yeah don't give me that look. Not voting for anyone today... you got something planned, don't you? DON'T YOU?

Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:58 pm Post subject: 3
Unvote: RichardGHP

Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:08 pm
Vote: Konowa

Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:36 pm
Unvote: Konowa

LONG break from voting, but still with many posts...waiting for something to catch on perhaps?

Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:57 pm
Vote: RichardGHP I wanna see how you respond to Nicodemus, Fugitive, and I.

I truly believe RichardGHP is scum, which is why I voted for him.

Fri Jan 01, 2010 8:07 pm
Unvote: RichardGHP

Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:21 pm
Vote: sorasgoof

Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:47 pm
Unvote: sorasgoof
Vote: RichardGHP

Wed Jan 06, 2010 5:40 pm
Unvote: RichardGHP
Vote: sorasgoof

Now that the soras-Richard thing is staring to clear up...

Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:11 pm
I'd gladly go for a diddin lynch, or a CCARaven4 lynch. Maybe a sorasgoof lynch, or a pman5595 lynch but I don't think he's as scummy as he was before, although he certainly is up there. Not Richard, because I'd like to see if he can back up his claim.

1. diddin
2. CCARaven4
3. sorasgoof/pman5595

Unvote: sorasgoof
Vote: diddin

Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:47 pm
Vote: DragonsofSummer

Was DoS even on his list? Nope, but others grew suspicious of him, so scum must follow...

Crap, now the wagon is back on diddin...need an excuse...quick...

Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:22 pm
Well I knew that diddin could possibly scum... but I usually skipped over his posts because of his numerous silly posts... but they're really that bad?

DoS: Not a good way to get rid of suspicion but I think you would only say that if you weretown and frustrated at us.

diddin: ok obvscum

Unvote: DragonsOfSummer

Vote: diddin

Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:43 pm
Vote: RichardGHP

Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:44 pm
WOOOOOOOOW wrong person

Unvote: RichardGHP

Vote: NavyCherub

Honest mistake, or was his subconscious telling him not to vote for his scum buddy?

And since people are now suspicious of pman...

Sun Jan 24, 2010 3:06 pm
Vote: pman5595

[CryMeARiver]

Don't know how I did not see this one before:

Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:22 pm
Well I knew that diddin could possibly scum... but I usually skipped over his posts because of his numerous silly posts... but they're really that bad?

DoS: Not a good way to get rid of suspicion but I think you would only say that if you weretown and frustrated at us.

diddin: ok obvscum

Unvote: DragonsOfSummer

Vote: diddin

So he's saying, "was diddin really bad, cuz I didn't see it, but I'll bandwagon on what everyone else is saying instead of checking it and forming my own opinion and vote for him..." WOW...

HUGE RED FLAG

[CryMeARiver]

What... I voted diddin before, and thought Richard's claim was false, so I went to Richard, then went to diddin.

Waffling

I was first suspicious of pman today.

Yes, but others have been suspicious of him for a while

What are you talking about? You are not being smart. It was an honest mistake, I wanted to vote for Navy, but I accidently typed in Richard.

Quite possible...as I acknowledged...

If you think I am scum, and everything I type is utterly false and scummy, then I can not convince you otherwise (seems like I can't convince you despite the fact that I am trying). When you lynch a townie, I will feel sorry for you, and still root the town on.

I will regret it if you are town

Honestly it's hard to debate with someone who refuses to at least consider my side. Oh well. At least you're providing some of the best arguments against me, I give you kudos for that. Anything else for me to answer? I got time.

I'm considering it, I'm just posting these opinions as if you were definitely scum...thank you for the compliment

[CryMeARiver]

Reading through your posts, you seem like I can not be anything but scum. You think it's an impossible idea that I could be town.

This isn't the case at all...I'm quoting your posts as if you were definitely scum...this is how I weed the scum from the rest

[CryMeARiver]

If that's how you play, then I'm not stopping you from playing. Anything else you want me to answer? I'll come in tomorrow morning to answer.

Yeah, what did you learn as a neighbor...anything strike you as odd or worth reporting?

[CryMeARiver]

dang. I wanted to be the one who voted TheLonging.

When he said he wanted to be scanned, I took it as one of the most obvious of scumtells. And after reading his posts, nothing townie-ish to me.

vote the longing

CryMeARiver...I hate it when people do that.

If you are referring to the fact that I listed the people I thought were town and such, I know...but i was just organizing my thoughts...if you are speaking of something else, please tell me so I can fix it

[CryMeARiver]

EBWOP TheLonging fails, as requested by soras.

By the way, that was a hammer.

Not a hammer...

[CryMeARiver]

OK, let me try a little experiment that I was thinking about the other day. Let's assume that TheLonging did break the rules and copy-pasted his role from his PM and got away with it. Would it still show up as green? As a sample, I will copy-paste a piece of text from the OP (Flareonage being sliced) which includes red, bold, and strikethrough text. Let's see how much of it shows up!

Drumroll!

malpascp Flareonage, Mafia Doctor, sliced Night 1

Well what do you know, no bold, no color, just plain text. Therefore, I am forced to conclude that he lied about the copy-paste from the PM. For this and other reasons pointed out by CMAR and Richard including contradictory statements and backtracking, I have no choice but to

Vote: TheLonging

@mod: is Konowa up for a prod?

Lastly, I want to defend Richard for a second concerning his not trying to defend Navy post. He was saying that in response to me saying that Navy was contributing frequently and looked more town because of it. Therefore, I can see why he would feel the need to put the disclaimer in there because it was concerning Navy.

FoS ckd

for tunneling throughout the entire game. I'm getting sick of it.

@CMAR: What makes you think I am scum?

This is a major catch and so true...I shall post about the rest of my suspicions (including you...) later today...if TheLonging makes it that far because this piece of evidence proves TheLonging to be FOR SURE SCUM!

[CryMeARiver]

I just checked the page once more to see if I missed anything...the 4th neighbor mentioned this post after my last post at night....

Is one of his abilities to scan? If so, and you want him to take the risk, have him scan me if he chooses to.

this was a good catch....Longing, why did you feel it important to direct a possible investigation? With so many power roles floating about, there is probably a mafia GF around. This is a suspicious post.

looking forward to you post.

Oh, I misread this...I thought it meant that TL was a neighbor...dang my brain

[CryMeARiver]

prod received...I'm alive, it was just the week and I had a lot on my plate

[CryMeARiver]

With all this time with TL at L-1, I'm gonna take the time to reanalyze a few people and see if there is a better lynch for today...

[CryMeARiver]

Bah, if only I could share what I knew...lets go town!

[CryMeARiver]

wait what?

are you saying that your post WAS scummy on purpose?

why didnt you answer my questions?

YES...and if I didn't, this game would go nowhere
you are right, bog did tunnel pman, but he still posted about other players...his only suspicions were on pman throughout the game, and I hold them to be true

[CryMeARiver]

Anyway, I've done ISO's on most of the alive and read through page 35...If Richard didn't have such a claim, I would highly suspect him right now...