Newbie 2050 | The End

[Malakittens]

I promise to have better content by wed as I’ll have a huuuge chunk of time, but I don’t think we should no eliminate

[Lunar Martian]

Actually volxen's PoE means 2 scum in: Statue, Alice, RayFrost. I'm inclined to just say that confirms volxen as Mafia and say it's Statue and volxen.

I actually can see anyone as Mafia. Ray is my primary suspect I would like to vote tbh. Doesn't really like his Day 1, had a lot of interactions but avoided doing reads.

This is a really bad post. You need to elaborate please.

[volxen]

Ok so assuming that no one CCs, Mala is confirmed Town and volxen is likely Town. That or volxen got jailkept, realized we are in C2, and knew to claim tracker to pair with the Jailkeeper.

Yes, Mala is confirmed town now since everyone has claimed. Which is why I think that the optimal play for today is a no-elimination.

Hang on a second. With two PRs then both Mafia probably move each night, so your no movement on me is a clear FYPOV. That means between Mala and me being clear and yourself being Town you're shooting 2 Mafia in a pool of 3. Why are you pushing a no elim?

The fact that you didn't target anyone on night one isn't a mechanical clear FMPOV. It clears you from being a roleblocker, but you could be a goon and your partner both roleblocked and performed the nightkill on night one.

So with a no-elimination, I would be tracking from a pool of four players on night three, but we would be guaranteed to not lose during the night phase.

I mean it's possible, but unlikely, since the roleblocker multi-tasking would mean a tracker would get a full guilty. In any event you'd have to be pushing me and Statue as the Mafia team and you aren't doing that, so you're still Mafia.

If the roleblocker is more townread than the goon, then it makes sense for the roleblocker to multi-task. Yes, it’s not a mechanical guilty if the goon gets caught targeting the person that got nightkilled, but it’s still going to bring them under a lot of scrutiny. And you took a fair amount of heat on day one.

No, I don’t have to push you and Statue as the scumteam. There could be scum in {Ray, Alice}, and if you are scum one of them makes a lot more sense as your partner compared to Statue.

Why does the fact that I’m not pushing Lunar/Statue as the scumteam impact your read on me? The fact that you have Alice and Ray as townreads doesn’t explain why I would have to be townreading them in order for me to be town.

It’s a pointless argument, as you’re effectively saying that it’s impossible for both of us to be town, so no matter what I push you’re going to say that it indicates that I’m scum.

[volxen]

Why?? If you're town, scum can kill MK with 100% certainty (by having the roleblocker block her and kill her), and you only have a 25% chance of tracking the scum. Or you could get roleblocked, forcing MK to have a 25% chance of jailing the scum to stop the kill -- and from your POV, executing someone purely at random has a 50% chance of hitting scum. And of course if you're scum, you or your buddy can kill MK, scapegoat a townie with a made-up result, and get an easy mislynch.

FMPOV miseliminating today is an autoloss since Mala will just be both roleblocked and nightkilled if that happens. I realize that no-eliminating isn’t as appealing to everyone else since I’m not confirmed town, but that’s how I was looking at it. I think that it’s probably a moot point in any case as it’s unlikely that we will be no-eliminating today.

[volxen]

Lunar, what do you make of the fact that Ray and Alice have mutual suspicions of one another?

[StatueSurfer]

My responses in bold again.

Not voting you on the off-chance that I'm wrong is a reasonable choice. It at the very least gives other people time to contribute to the thread if I'm wrong. Even if I don't think I'm wrong, being open to the possibility will avoid the whole issue of tunnel vision.

Honestly, I considered Volxen as the likely buddy (that was actually what the note was about in my previous post), but with how strong you're trying to push

away

from the possibility of it being Alice, it makes me lean toward Alice being more likely. Perhaps a bit on the WIFOMy side, but eh. I haven't done a deep dive into Alice's posts vs Volxen's posts to really get into it, but that's also something I can look at the following game day.

Fair enough on me misreading the "slightly less slight" sentence. I had to read it twice after you mentioned it to even realize I'd missed the second slight. Sometimes, my reading isn't too good after work.

The "performative" comment is about your focus on people's ~activity levels~ weighing so heavily on your reads on people. Maybe it's just you coming from a different, more real-time meta like you mentioned. Maybe it's just an easy way to shift things around. I think the latter is more likely than the former.

Scum are known to try to hide behind lower activity; after all, the less you post, the less chance you can slip, and the fewer interactions you have, the fewer associations others can pick up on. And if you make readlists and post reasoning as little as possible (lightbulb moment), town can't attack you for your crappy reads and bad reasoning.

I'm not expecting you to have confirmation on day 1. I'm noting that ~connection reads~ without any confirmed information is superfluous at best. Like you admitted yourself, it's grasping.

There was also the framing theory, and Lunar's slot was under pressure at that time.

Going after me at this point isn't about low-hanging fruit. It's about reading the room: I'm

going

to town read Lunar, as I already have been. Trying to convince me to vote for Lunar is going to be a lot harder than trying to convince other people. You've already shown a pattern of trying to catch both mafia without a flip in previous posting, so you'll be forced to say

someone

for the sake of consistency. And whoever you do say will be antagonized and less likely to vote with you. So, choose the person who you know isn't going to vote with you to begin with.

I wish I was scum!me, because they sound a lot smarter than I am.

By pushing so hard on Lunar days 1 / 2, you as mafia can't rightly shift away from the read and let it die. So, you're stuck in a bad position of having to deal with it the best you can. It's tough. I sympathize.

Let

it die? Lunar was brought to E-1 D2 and two of the people on that wagon are still alive. You act there's no legitimate reason to SR Lunar (just like Lunar acts like there's no reason to SR you or Alice), even though at least two townies were on that wagon. If Me/Alice is the scumteam, three townies were on that wagon. So what are we so worried about?

The small shade you've thrown Alice is minimal, and the lack of any real bite behind the interactions between the two of you combined with Alice's random scum read on me when I stated I thought Lunar was town reads as Alice-as-Mafia reacting with frustration to things not going as planned. Furthering my belief that it's probably you two, though I haven't done a deep dive on "if Statue is mafia" yet.

I'm probably going to SR someone who never explains any reads over someone who never explains one read.

You don't tell cook to save himself. You tell cook "if you don't convince me, I'm going to vote." They're different things.

Uh, I lose my hammer vote if he convinces

anyone

to unvote, so why even bother? Why not just hammer him right then and there?

RE: Not hammering Lunar on d2... removing Lunar from the game would force you to have to look at the rest of the playerlist in a more concrete fashion (as you didn't have anything concrete that wasn't Lunar), which makes the game harder for you to play. If you give the Harumi wagon a day, there's a chance that the momentum it gained will die from events over the night phase. My read likely caught you off guard and by surprise, and you wanted to take advantage of it while you could. Alice being the hammer on the slot only makes it make more sense to me instead of less.

Hold on. What fricking plan? In post #148, Alice suddenly decides that Lunar is town for no reason, which is just 4 of their posts (and 35 overall) removed from saying that there was a high chance he was scum. In between, I brought Lunar to E-1. What's the point of suddenly doing a complete 180 on him, and never changing that read, effectively preventing us from double-teaming our supposed target during Mylo? And if we're in cahoots, why didn't I back off my read of Lunar? What "plan" is any of this following? And still no reason for Me/Alice to kill Krazy N1.

Also, Mafia-Statue would want more activity because you'd be desperate to get the town to read your side of things and agree with it before a lot of activity can happen overall. You

need

the inactive players to vote with you.

As noted above, there were at least 2 townies on the Lunar wagon D2. If Me/Alice is the scumteam, all three of them were and 2 of them are still alive. Why would we be desperate? And anyway, more posts means more chances for scum!me to screw up, making it less desirable.

Admittedly, Town-Statue would want the same thing, but I don't think you'd be so concerned about it happening before I had the opportunity to post anything in-depth (because you'd be standing righteously in the knowledge that you're town).

Does more activity stop you from contributing to it or analyzing it? You were the one setting the timeframe on your posting.

That's just my take on it, though.

So, I'm guessing you're not going to budge on me being scum anymore than I'm going to budge on Lunar being scum.

Actually volxen's PoE means 2 scum in: Statue, Alice, RayFrost. I'm inclined to just say that confirms volxen as Mafia and say it's Statue and volxen.

I actually can see anyone as Mafia. Ray is my primary suspect I would like to vote tbh. Doesn't really like his Day 1, had a lot of interactions but avoided doing reads.

@AliceK:

Thanks for showing up. Two things: 1) Tell us why you TR Lunar, and 2) expand on your Frost read.

This is a really bad post. You need to elaborate please.

I mean, I agree they need to elaborate, but this is really rich irony coming from you, the guy determined to explain as little as possible.

Still waiting to hear why you think Alice and Frost are so certainly town.

Anyway, since near the end of D2, Lunar:

You made this post, which, as I explained earlier, is pure tautology. Alice and Frost are not confirmed town just because you inexplicably believe they are. And of course, you haven't bothered to explain why they are so definitely town.

You never really explained why you thought I was scum to begin with, just some muttering about "really odd posts". I'd ask you to explain, but you'd just repeat what Frost said.

Hang on a second.

With two PRs then both Mafia probably move each night, so your no movement on me is a clear FYPOV.

That means between Mala and me being clear and yourself being Town you're shooting 2 Mafia in a pool of 3. Why are you pushing a no elim?

Emphasis mine. This is obviously wrong, due to Mafia PRs being able to multitask, but you were probably hoping nobody would notice that. And when volx did, you threw another lie at him.

Why are you pushing a narrative that I learned nothing from my questions despite not asking me what I learned? Can you not see my reads changing after I say that? I have lots of thoughts. Most of them are wrong. The more I detail my reasoning in the thread, the more Mafia can latch onto the bad thoughts and tell me they're good. Instead, I share my vote, and people can agree/disagree.

There were three people voting you at this point. We know two of them were town, and I (who I know is town) almost hammered you on the basis of this post alone (something I now regret not doing). This post is the from same guy who also said:

N.B. In my one completed Town game, I was suspected heavily and died Day 1, while calling out Town for poor play. Mafia won that game.

That's very bad Mafia play, and so if you think I'm Mafia because of that you're kind of insulting my intelligence.

[/quote]

So somehow, you are certain you are a smart player and that we're doomed if we execute you, while simultaneously believing that you are not smart enough to recognize anyone trying to buddy you by praising the "bad thoughts" you have despite your intelligence. That should really be a numbers game: if most of the players (since as you love to point out, statistically everyone is town) hate your reasoning, but 1-2 people (e.g. scum) think it's awesome, shouldn't that be a tip-off that those two people are scum trying to buddy you, particularly if you're already this paranoid about it?

It does make a lot of sense if you're scum: after all, if you never post your reasoning, town can't ever attack it, and if you never clearly post your reads, town can't question why your reads shift, or even tell if they shifted at all!

Also, you "can blend in if you want to"? Your slot was in the spotlight when you subbed in; good luck blending in from that position.

On reread, I really don't like #96. You say, "I'm trying to find mafia" at the end. Except... you're pretty much just waiting/hoping for mafia to talk and make a slip. You claim it's to set up a high-information endgame... which we're supposedly in now, where you promptly forgot your PoE read from the day before. Even if you reached the same conclusion (via two bizarrely confident townreads), it suggests you don't actually care about whatever information you're supposedly generating, and would rather just push for your chosen mislynch. Furthermore, forcing town to ask for your reasoning (especially when you don't bother providing it a lot of the time anyway) drains more time off the day, helping scum rush town.

You also told Harumi that "scum take the easy path". It doesn't get much easier than miseliming inactives, hopping onto a bandwagon started by the towniest player and trusting the person who TRs you for no reason (Alice) to hammer them over you, avoiding questions from the guy you planned to NK, then going after the only one of your detractors who didn't claim a PR, and is also the only VT claim that you don't have to go back on a claim against or turn .

Especially

if Frost is your buddy.

And since I know you or Frost will probably bring this up, here's scum!you's motivation for everything:

- You were at E-2 when you came in, so "blending in" isn't an option. You decide to be aggressive and try to redirect attention onto the inactive newb Charles.
- Your initial (and only complete) readslist is also telling (here). Both of your SRs were the inactives, which should make them easy miselims. Your read on me was a hedge because I was TRed by just about everyone else at that point and you didn't want to stir the pot too much. MK and Volx's main recommendation at that point was that they were more active than Charles or Crab, so not much. That's about all I have there, although the Alice read may have been an attempt at buddying.
- But then the mod announces Krazy, a SE, is replacing in, depriving you of the easy miselim of that slot. Oops! Well, he needs to die so that he can't save himself.j
- Note that at this point, you had MK and Volx in your scumlist as per this post.
- You then antagonize what was at the time the weakest SE (I don't care what Frost says, MK was the weakest at that point in time), then switch to targeting Volxen, who pushed back the hardest, and interestingly you never engaged with Frost at all, and Frost let you get away with it. You never really explain what about MK or Volx's posts makes you change your reads despite being asked, which is inconsistent with other posts of yours where you say you'll explain yourself when asked.
- And then you vote for Harumi, claiming it's because of Frost's case (same reason I voted for him, I'll admit). But then you claim you sussed him

before

that analysis... but in that reads list I linked to, you had him as town, and never said anything about him being anything other than noobtown before putting him in your PoE.
- You repeatedly suspect he might be town and that Me/Volx are probably the scumteam (before you totally forgot about saying that), but the vote stays where it is of course, and then he flips town. Notably, you refuse to engage with Volx, who makes a good point here (3rd bullet point), calling you out for not explaining your reasoning on him

or

questioning him, also pointing out you cherrypick when you want to explain things. You just decide he's scum, and that's that as far as you seem to be concerned. This is also probably why you tried to kill him N2.
- You then go after me D3...

before

Frost claims. For all town!you knows, Frost might claim JK or Doctor or something, so to me it looks like you somehow knew he wouldn't claim a PR. Rather odd considering you sussed the Volx earlier, so why implicitly trust his claim? And why did you go after me? Because you knew I would go after you, and I'm the only one of your detractors who isn't a PR.

Your D2 PoE itself seems telling... because every person on it had placed a vote on you at some point, while your two "conftowns" in Alice and Frost never have, suggesting that you 1) view disagreement with you as a scumtell or 2) want to get rid of anyone who SRs you because you are actually scum.

And just to ask it again:

@Lunar:

Why are you so certain Alice and Frost are town?

Lunar, what do you make of the fact that Ray and Alice have mutual suspicions of one another?

Well, what's

your

opinion on it?

[AliceK]

My read on Ray is based on the Day 1. I am doing notes to keep everything ordered and according to my notes Ray had interactions almost with everyone, but he didn't share almost anything not neutral. I think he was just looking like being productive. Also I no more TR Lunar, I would if Harumi flipped Mafia, because interactions between her and Lunar were clearly not svs. Right now it is open question. I am suspecting Ray right now. But I agree with no kill, we can no lynch to get back to odd number of players.

[StatueSurfer]

My read on Ray is based on the Day 1. I am doing notes to keep everything ordered and according to my notes Ray had interactions almost with everyone, but he didn't share almost anything not neutral. I think he was just looking like being productive. Also I no more TR Lunar, I would if Harumi flipped Mafia, because interactions between her and Lunar were clearly not svs. Right now it is open question. I am suspecting Ray right now. But I agree with no kill, we can no lynch to get back to odd number of players.

But why did you TR Lunar to start with? And you're on record saying you thought Harumi-Lunar was TvT, so what changed (again)? And why is an odd number of players so important?

[Sirius9121]

invalid votecount

[StatueSurfer]

I am very sure that vote count is wrong.

[volxen]

Well, what's your opinion on it?

What I’ve noticed is that Lunar is critical of Alice when she voices her suspicions of Ray, but they are not critical of Ray when he voices his suspicions of Alice.

For example, In Ray’s back-and-forth with you he mentioned several times that he thinks that a Statue/Alice scumteam is possible in this post:

Honestly, I considered Volxen as the likely buddy (that was actually what the note was about in my previous post), but with how strong you're trying to push away from the possibility of it being Alice, it makes me lean toward Alice being more likely. Perhaps a bit on the WIFOMy side, but eh. I haven't done a deep dive into Alice's posts vs Volxen's posts to really get into it, but that's also something I can look at the following game day

The small shade you've thrown Alice is minimal, and the lack of any real bite behind the interactions between the two of you combined with Alice's random scum read on me when I stated I thought Lunar was town reads as Alice-as-Mafia reacting with frustration to things not going as planned. Furthering my belief that it's probably you two, though I haven't done a deep dive on "if Statue is mafia" yet.

RE: Not hammering Lunar on d2... removing Lunar from the game would force you to have to look at the rest of the playerlist in a more concrete fashion (as you didn't have anything concrete that wasn't Lunar), which makes the game harder for you to play. If you give the Harumi wagon a day, there's a chance that the momentum it gained will die from events over the night phase. My read likely caught you off guard and by surprise, and you wanted to take advantage of it while you could. Alice being the hammer on the slot only makes it make more sense to me instead of less.

Lunar did not comment on or object to any of the points that Ray was making here about a Statue/Alice scumteam. Granted, Ray went into a lot of detail in that post, whereas Alice has a tendency to make statements without explaining her reasoning. But Lunar has been pushing Alice and Ray as townreads for most of the game – to the extent that they are not willing to talk about the possibility of any scumteam that is not Volxen/Statue. So why is Lunar’s “concern” with their two townreads suspecting each other one-sided?

These two posts from Lunar are the only times when they have asked Alice to elaborate more, with the latter post being the first time that Lunar has been critical of Alice:

I actually slightly suspicious of RayFrost right now.

Doubt it. Explain though?

Actually volxen's PoE means 2 scum in: Statue, Alice, RayFrost. I'm inclined to just say that confirms volxen as Mafia and say it's Statue and volxen.

I actually can see anyone as Mafia. Ray is my primary suspect I would like to vote tbh. Doesn't really like his Day 1, had a lot of interactions but avoided doing reads.

This is a really bad post. You need to elaborate please.

Even though Alice has been consistent in not explaining her reasoning for a lot of the game, it only becomes an issue for Lunar when it’s related to her giving an unfavorable take on Ray.

What’s interesting is that I don’t think that Ray has come under any real scrutiny until today. Offhand, I think that first post from Alice that I quoted above is the only time that anyone voiced suspicions of Ray on day two. Ray is now coming under a lot more scrutiny from both you and Alice. And Lunar is insisting that Alice needs to explain her scumread on Ray, even though Lunar still hasn’t explained why they are so confident that Ray is town.

I agree with your assessment that Ray would make sense as Lunar’s partner, though I still haven’t ruled out Lunar/Alice (this is what I was leaning towards on day two). It would explain Ray’s counter-push on Harumi on day two in response to Lunar’s wagon, and his push on you now. It also would explain why he’s written off Lunar’s play as “anti-town”. Ray is also the only person in the game who has never at any point voiced suspicions of Lunar.

[AliceK]

My read on Ray is based on the Day 1. I am doing notes to keep everything ordered and according to my notes Ray had interactions almost with everyone, but he didn't share almost anything not neutral. I think he was just looking like being productive. Also I no more TR Lunar, I would if Harumi flipped Mafia, because interactions between her and Lunar were clearly not svs. Right now it is open question. I am suspecting Ray right now. But I agree with no kill, we can no lynch to get back to odd number of players.

But why did you TR Lunar to start with? And you're on record saying you thought Harumi-Lunar was TvT, so what changed (again)? And why is an odd number of players so important?

I relooked their interactions after my read and changed my mind. Because mislynch = lose in both ELo and MeLo, but in MeLo you have bigger poe.

[RayFrost]

Alice, that's simply not correct in this case.

If you think that Volxen is town (which your statements make it seem like you do), then there's a roleblocker on the mafia team. Going into night essentially guarantees that Malakittens dies in that case.

If you don't think Volxen is town, then you're still running a gamble that Malakittens can jailkeep the mafia member that is designated to kill her.

In either case, our average result is Malakittens dies. This is bad for us.

[Lunar Martian]

I am very sure that vote count is wrong.

For one thing it says the deadline expired over a week ago.

[Lunar Martian]

Volxen is trying to keep as many options open as possible for the scumteam. All his logic explains why various teams are options, but no teams are really ruled out. That isn't gamesolving.

[volxen]

Volxen is trying to keep as many options open as possible for the scumteam. All his logic explains why various teams are options, but no teams are really ruled out. That isn't gamesolving.

I've already said that Lunar/Statue is very unlikely. I also think that Ray/Alice is unlikely as well.

I think that it's either Lunar/Ray or Lunar/Alice.

[volxen]

Volxen is trying to keep as many options open as possible for the scumteam. All his logic explains why various teams are options, but no teams are really ruled out. That isn't gamesolving.

I've already said that Lunar/Statue is very unlikely. I also think that Ray/Alice is unlikely as well.

I think that it's either Lunar/Ray or Lunar/Alice.

[volxen]

Are you going to answer my questions, Lunar?

Why does the fact that I’m not pushing Lunar/Statue as the scumteam impact your read on me?

Lunar, what do you make of the fact that Ray and Alice have mutual suspicions of one another?

[Lunar Martian]

Are you going to answer my questions, Lunar?

Why does the fact that I’m not pushing Lunar/Statue as the scumteam impact your read on me?

Lunar, what do you make of the fact that Ray and Alice have mutual suspicions of one another?

No and nothing, really. Why should it be odd that two people are suspicious of each other?

[Sirius9121]

Official Vote Count

Lunar Martian

(1): StatueSurfer

StatueSurfer

(1): Lunar Martian

Not Voting

(4): volxen, Malakittens, AliceK, Rayfrost

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to eliminate.

Deadline

: (expired on 2021-02-12 10:58:00)

[StatueSurfer]

Well, whether we want a no-elimination or not, we're rocketing straight toward it, because despite having 4 people against it, only 2 of them have voted, and there's less than 24 hours left on the deadline. And MK never showed up to say anything either, so that's just great.

Volxen is trying to keep as many options open as possible for the scumteam. All his logic explains why various teams are options, but no teams are really ruled out. That isn't gamesolving.

You know what else isn't gamesolving? Refusing to engage your scumreads and tunneling in on your chosen scumteam while ignoring anyone not on it because you believe your townreads are sacrosanct.

Speaking of which,

why

do you townread Alice and Frost so strongly? For, like, the fourth time or whatever.

I relooked their interactions after my read and changed my mind.

You skipped over the question why you TRed Lunar at all, and this isn't really an answer to the second question. What about their interactions made you change your mind?

[volxen]

Are you going to answer my questions, Lunar?

Why does the fact that I’m not pushing Lunar/Statue as the scumteam impact your read on me?

Lunar, what do you make of the fact that Ray and Alice have mutual suspicions of one another?

No and nothing, really. Why should it be odd that two people are suspicious of each other?

As I mentioned before, you’ve been critical of Alice for suspecting Ray but not the other way around. And a lot of your argument for suspecting Statue and I is that we are in your POE because of your townreads on Alice and Ray.

You’ve never explained your reason for townreading both of them so strongly, nor have you mentioned the possibility that you could be wrong on at least one of those reads. I don’t think that’s normal for this stage of the game, to not re-evaluate or consider the possibility that you haven’t come up with a perfect solve. You’re staking the game on Statue and I being the scumteam, and it’s not worthwhile to explain why you are convinced that Alice and Ray are town, and why nothing that has happened on day two or day three has affected these reads which you’ve had since day one?

You’re also the only player here who is pushing the same thing as the end of day two, except now your POE is only Statue and I following Harumi’s miselimination. Everyone else has re-evaluated their reads at least to some extent. For example, Ray was fairly townread on day two (or at least he was not really suspected), and now Alice, Statue, and I have all voiced suspicions that Ray could be scum. Outside of insisting that Alice explain herself, you seem unphased by this, even though it means that at least one person genuinely suspects Ray of being scum. You don’t react to any of the points brought up against Alice or Ray, even when it’s one of them explaining why they suspect the other.

I don’t think it’s odd for two people to be suspicious of one another. I think it’s odd that it doesn’t bother you that the two players in question are your townreads. You asked Alice to elaborate on her Ray scumread, which she now has, and you haven’t shown any interest in her response.

[AliceK]

I relooked their interactions after my read and changed my mind.

You skipped over the question why you TRed Lunar at all, and this isn't really an answer to the second question. What about their interactions made you change your mind?

I didn't skip it. I answered it. I scumread Harumi and interactions with Lunar weren't svs. The same about you and Lunar, you also aren't svs. I will go with that vote:
VOTE: RayFrost

[AliceK]

I relooked their interactions after my read and changed my mind.

You skipped over the question why you TRed Lunar at all, and this isn't really an answer to the second question. What about their interactions made you change your mind?

I didn't skip it. I answered it. I scumread Harumi and interactions with Lunar weren't svs. The same about you and Lunar, you also aren't svs. I will go with that vote:
VOTE: RayFrost

I believe in PR claims and that Lunar vs Statue are not svs. It locks Ray as Mafia.

[AliceK]

I relooked their interactions after my read and changed my mind.

You skipped over the question why you TRed Lunar at all, and this isn't really an answer to the second question. What about their interactions made you change your mind?

I didn't skip it. I answered it. I scumread Harumi and interactions with Lunar weren't svs. The same about you and Lunar, you also aren't svs. I will go with that vote:
VOTE: RayFrost

I believe in PR claims and that Lunar vs Statue are not svs. It locks Ray as Mafia.

It's probably better than no elim as it allow prs to clear 1 more person if they state who will be jailed in case of mafia flip.