Newbie 1765 | URW | Endgame

[ConnorJC]

As my first action, the cop is

going

to investigate Nachomamma8 and you are going to Town read me for saying such.

So you're saying you would want a cop to come out day 2 and tell the mafia who they are?
Doesn't seem like town play to me

VOTE: LicketyQuickety

[ConnorJC]

Hello Everybody!

LicketyQuickety, what do you mean by IC? You're an experienced ayer right, meant to help us noobs? Are can ICs be assigned as mafia?

Sorry for these very basic questions but it would be even stupider of me not to.ask.

The IC is a player assigned to a game with the responsibility of teaching new players how mafia works and helping them understand theory. Yes, ICs can be assigned as mafia, and

they are still supposed to play to their win condition

.

ICs are

required

to not lie about theory and give correct answers to theory questions. What Lickety is saying is that he often disagrees with the community on the "right" action to take (Preferring to think out of the box), and therefore is queuing as an SE (An experienced player in a newbie game without strict requirements) so he's free to play as he sees fit.

[ConnorJC]

Regarding the fact that we have someone at L-2: I'd like to ask that we don't put it (or anyone else) at L-1 until every player has responded in the game thread to avoid accidental/"accidental" lynches, unless we have some actual scummy behavior (not stuff based on the RVS).

[ConnorJC]

The goal for day one is to create conversation. A self-vote doesn't really have the ability to do that. Which is why it's considered scummy to vote for yourself.

I don't agree with this.
I don't think that self-voting yourself is scummy; most things are about the intention behind them and at the end of the day scum don't really have that much reason to vote for yourself. I do think that self-votes can generate discussion; they are a thing that confuses people and when people are confused they tend to talk. Whether the content generated is meaningful is a different story but typically content is generated.

Self-voting is not necessarily scummy, especially in RVS. Self-hammering is almost always scummy.

[ConnorJC]

As my first action, the cop is going to investigate Nachomamma8 and you are going to Town read me for saying such.

Hey LicketyQuickety,
Can you explain in more detail what you meant by this?

Thanks,

I would also like to know why Lickety is sure there's a cop and why that would lead to a town read on him (Unless this was just a complete joke).

[ConnorJC]

Regarding the fact that we have someone at L-2: I'd like to ask that we don't put it (or anyone else) at L-1 until every player has responded in the game thread to avoid accidental/"accidental" lynches, unless we have some actual scummy behavior (not stuff based on the RVS).

Have you played elsewhere or just read up on the wiki?

Played SC2 mafia and a little TOS. Also read up, and looked a couple ongoing newbie games.

[ConnorJC]

As my first action, the cop is

going

to investigate Nachomamma8 and you are going to Town read me for saying such.

So you're saying you would want a cop to come out day 2 and tell the mafia who they are?
Doesn't seem like town play to me

VOTE: LicketyQuickety

LQ obviously didn't say anything about the cop outing Day 2.

If you are town, you assumed something about LQ's statement that you shouldn't have. If you are scum, you just stretched your neck out too far to make a bad attack. I think that it's the latter; convince me otherwise.

Vote: ConnorJC

The only way we'd know a cop actually made that investigation is if they came out and claimed cop and said what they did. It's not town's job to convince other players they are town, instead, it's town's job to find scum.

Town read on Connor JC.

Odd that you'd have a townread on someone after they just accused you of trying to get the cop to out when that wasn't the case at all.

As he said, it was a reaction test.

[ConnorJC]

Yeah, I realize that now. I probably should have said that self-voting doesn't really help either side. With that in mind, I incline to think TheDominator is town. However, Dominator is at L-2, which means people should unvote.

In my opinion self-voting can help town by generating discussion at the very beginning. However, now that there is discussion going about who is reading who town/mafia and why, people should unvote, at least for now.

[ConnorJC]

LicketyQuickety I have asked you two questions:

1) What does IC mean. (Answered by Nachomma8 (thanks btw))

2) What do you mean with the cop thing.

Instead of slapping a scum read on me, can you at least my 2nd question?

See #42.

[ConnorJC]

The only way we'd know a cop actually made that investigation is if they came out and claimed cop and said what they did. It's not town's job to convince other players they are town, instead, it's town's job to find scum.

And yet LQ didn't say anything about cop outing to confirm that they made that investigation.
Town's job is more than just "finding scum". Town's job is being townread by other players, it's presenting their cases in a way that convinces people that they're right and gets people to convince you of a different way if you're wrong. Town's job is mediating conflicts between players that could cause damage to the town as a whole, it's about keeping players contributing and engaged so they become more emotionally invested which makes them harder to lynch and more likely to take an investment in the arguments presented.

Town cannot win by simply getting townread.

While town should not play so scummy that they are randomly getting scumread, trying to convince one player I'm town is a waste of time I could be using to find scum (A way better outcome).

As he said, it was a reaction test.

Do you think that it makes sense for the reaction test to get a good result from people who misrepresent what he's saying? Do you think misrepresenting others is a townie thing to do?

He said that we would read him town because of the cop check. For that to happen we'd have to know about the check.

[ConnorJC]

That's not odd. That's what town would do. I didn't mean to include the second part of my last post, didn't notice Connor had posted about it already.

Why would town do it?
Why wouldn't scum do it?

Town would almost never post something like that with actually info, as the only town that can know there's a cop is the doctor. Also, the mafia will have a roleblocker, so they'll probably be able to guess that person's a doc.

[ConnorJC]

with actual info*

[ConnorJC]

Oh my, that sentence was horrible.
as the only way that town can know*

[ConnorJC]

LicketyQuickety I have asked you two questions:

1) What does IC mean. (Answered by Nachomma8 (thanks btw))

2) What do you mean with the cop thing.

Instead of slapping a scum read on me, can you at least my 2nd question?

See #42.

I kinda wanted Lickety to respond, thanks ConnorJC. Lickety, perhaps you want to add more to you answer that it was a reaction. What have you observed from this reaction test?

I think he was looking for someone to point out the fact that he looks like he has knowledge of the setup, but maybe I'm wrong.

[ConnorJC]

Town would do it because it helps bring attention to someone with knowledge of the starting scenario, i.e. a power role that could be mafia or town.
Mafia wouldn't do it because it lets information about the game slip. (Namely, it would narrow down the possibilities for the starting scenario and what other power roles are out there.)

Hmmm.

The only way that LQ would have information about the starting scenario is if he was a power role or mafia; if he was a power role, I personally don't think that he'd be interested in painting a huge target on his back and hinting to the other PR (if one exists) that he is town early is silly when he can confirm himself if he has to by claiming.

Which is why it is likely he either has no info (because it was a reaction test) or is mafia.

[ConnorJC]

Town cannot win by simply getting townread. While town should not play so scummy that they are randomly getting scumread, trying to convince one player I'm town is a waste of time I could be using to find scum (A way better outcome).

I never said that town could win just by getting townread; instead, my response was geared towards showing that there were a lot of moving pieces in winning a game as town. In this scenario, responding to me means that A) you're gaining a better understanding of my reading of you, which is a good hint to my alignment B) you're convincing me that you're town, which means that I'll direct pressure elsewhere and thus you're improving town's chances of finding scum, and C) you're creating an interaction for everyone to observe, which will make both of our respective alignments clearer to the town.

I don't think that it's a "waste of time" to engage another player who is suspecting you.

Ok, fair enough, it probably isn't a complete waste of time. My point is that I'd like to avoid getting into a long drawn out argument that benefits nobody but scum.
You should present your arguments to the rest of the thread. Remember, you want to convince them that I'm town/scum, not me. Convincing me I'm scum does nothing, regardless of whether I'm town or scum. Convincing others I'm scum gets me lynched, which is what you want if you think I'm scummy.

pedit: Docker knows there's a 50% for a cop.
pedit2: I'm saying what I think the answer is, which helps other players get a read on me. I still invited LQ to respond.
pedit3: You know, I'm just going to post this and make another post for new stuff

[ConnorJC]

He said that we would read him town because of the cop check. For that to happen we'd have to know about the check.

He said that people were going to read him town because he said that the cop should investigate me. He didn't say that people were going to read him town because of the check itself.

Oh, you're right, I misinterpreted his post. As such, I'll unvote for now

UNVOTE: LicketyQuickety

[ConnorJC]

Mafia don't know if there is a cop in the setup or not.

Am I correct though that if there is a mafia roleblocker they know there may be a cop (and a doc)?

Yes, although I doubt LQ is actually a doc.

[ConnorJC]

Guys, let's stop assuming that LQ's hint that there is a doc in necessarily true. Although, I do like the discussion it's generated (And I wouldn't be surprised if that was LQ's intent).
pedit: I see other people have also drawn this conclusion before I could post

[ConnorJC]

Mafia don't know if there is a cop in the setup or not.

Am I correct though that if there is a mafia roleblocker they know there may be a cop (and a doc)?

Mafia roleblocker knows that the setup is either cop and a doc OR Jailkeeper and a BP. They don't know if there's a cop or not.

"Am I correct though that if there is a mafia roleblocker they know there

may

be a cop (and a doc)?"
Yes, yes he is.

[ConnorJC]

My point is that I'd like to avoid getting into a long drawn out argument that benefits nobody but scum.

I never said "let's get into a long drawn out argument that benefits nobody but scum" and as far as I can see there aren't any signs that we were headed in that direction. Is there something that I was missing, or did you maybe pull away a bit prematurely?

You told me to convince you that I'm town. That's basically the start of an argument between you and me if I try to do that directly.

[ConnorJC]

Well I read the player list wrong.

No problem. Oh, and if you could get an avatar, that would be great.

[ConnorJC]

But anyways: At what point is it good to go lurker-hunting?

Personally I'd wait at least 24 hours from the beginning of the day to make sure that everyone got a fair chance to participate in their own time zone.
Also, with all this conversation we could honestly start scum hunting soon.

[ConnorJC]

To clarify, you can scumhunt anytime. I mean that the post history will actually be useful for scumhunting.

[ConnorJC]

Of those other two I think FancyPants is the scummiest. So,

VOTE: FancyPants

Why?

[ConnorJC]

UNVOTE: TheDominator37

May I have a reason with that unvote?

I voted TheDominator37 because the game had started and there was no solid evidence to base a lynching.

I actually voted TheDominator37 just because he had happened to have voted for himself that I joked was a slightly scummy thing to do.

I'm unvoting because I'm fairly sure I'll be voting more constructively, (I have my eyes on ConnorJC and LQ). I also will be happy to focus on any lurkers (although will probably wait a bit longer before considering the Lurker Wagon).

Would you mind elaborating on your suspicion of me and LQ?

VOTE: Lovesick

Lovesick, I'll be super happy to unvote on the condition that you read through all the comments posted so far tell us your opinions on scum/town reads. Cheers

This is kinda scummy in my opinion. If you think that his lurking is scum then why would suddenly catching up change your mind?

I've seen a few people talk about it. I saw what looked like you fishing for info as well as Connor making a judgement call strait away. My intention was true as well as a reaction test. I wanted to get a conversation started and see who reacted and how.

Let me clarify here, as people are misinterpreting my post. I'm trying to focus on what I have in front of me, right now. Apparently people think I'm way more sure on who's town/scum than I actually am.

What makes you think I was BS with the cop thing? I did it to generate content as well as making a true statement (if the is a cop and its not you) as well as a reaction test. Tell me what is "BS" about that?

It seems like you're fairly sure there's a cop. Additionally, why would you want a cop to investigate Nachomamma8 if there is one? It almost looks like you're trying to lead a cop into wasting his night action if there is one.

Nothing in particular, I just use unconventional methods, judging what someone says and interpreting it in a way that is not the norm. I am very unconventional that way.
I think I have given the reads I have at this time. But I'll expand:

Connor is a Town read for jumping the gun and trying to get result before anything is conclusive. You are a (slight [which you misinterpreted]) Scum read for fishing for info in a way that is not clearly town mindset. You are smart which is why I am saying this.

Why would you town read me for jumping the gun? That's a scum thing, is it not?

[ConnorJC]

Ok, I've been asked for reads, so here we go. These are the ones I feel most confident about given the game so far (I'll make sure to post if that changes):

Superhans

- Slight Scum
His "I'll unvote you if you do this" post stands out as scummy. He then defends that vote with:

I didn't say that I would unvote one Lovesick had posted. I said I would unvote once Lovesick had offered an original scum/town diagnosis.

As if that's any better.

TheDominator39

- Scum
It seems to have contributed very little to the game so far. Additionally, the only (non-joke) vote from it is this one, which was basically just jumping on the Superhans bandwagon without explanation. Unfortunately, it's hard to read Dominator as it only has 3 posts in the game thread so far.

LicketyQuickety

- Town
I disagree with some of LQ's reads; however, I think he's town because of how much effort he's putting in to reading people and pointing out scummy/towny things other players do.

@FancyPants, you've asked for reads from 2-3 players so far, but I don't really see much from yourself. Please give out your own reads.
We need more posts from these inactive players, they're almost impossible to read otherwise.

[ConnorJC]

There are no scum or town reads not ones which can be based from a logical stand point based on facts, ony ones made from opinion and thoughs. The only person I have ill feelings to are Nacho as i feel as though he is trying very hard to lead this game and is coming off as a little too strong for me however what have you had to offer which could be of serious use other than this bandwagon on me?

Of course you can base reads off of logic. For example, it's logical for scum to lurk to prevent getting read as scum, while it's illogical as town to lurk as it's essentially playing against your win condition. Therefore, I think the lurkers are scummy.

[ConnorJC]

What, is it normal for newbies to not even try to figure out what they're doing?

[ConnorJC]

What, is it normal for newbies to not even try to figure out what they're doing?

Stick with the game and you'll be fine.

If you say so.

[ConnorJC]

I didn't say that I would unvote one Lovesick had posted. I said I would unvote once Lovesick had offered an original scum/town diagnosis.
...
UNVOTE: LoveSick

But, Lovesick hasn't offered any reads/thoughts. Why the unvote?

As a matter of fact, Lovesick's only contributions are defending herself. Not one post actively participating in the 'find scum' part of mafia.
VOTE: LoveSick

(L-2)

[ConnorJC]

Although, while we're looking at lurkers, why are we letting toblerone slip under the radar?

@toblerone187, what are your thoughts on the game right now. Scum/town reads?

pedit: Hmm, that unvote is interesting. Not sure I agree that's a good reason to unvote.

[ConnorJC]

My other reason is that I'd rather not have people at L-2 until we have really good reasons.

Fair enough, although I'd argue that L-2 is probably pretty safe. L-1, on the other hand, is a different story.

[ConnorJC]

The odds are that at least one scum is on a bandwagon that gets to L-2. Also, that would give away

at least

half of the scumteam, and put suspicion on the last member.
I welcome scum to quickhammer an L-2 lynch on D1. It would be a quick game.

[ConnorJC]

In my opinion Lovesick's post contained barely any content. Pointing out one player is sketchy isn't really contributing much.

@LoveSick @toblerone187 please contribute some thoughts on who's scum/town and why

[ConnorJC]

N1 kill is not the only source of logical reasoning. As a matter of fact, I'd argue night kills (especially in newbie games) are a fairly poor source of information.

[ConnorJC]

Also Connor, by logical i mean with evidence from night phases which we can use to deduce and conclude things with ease other than make assumptions purely made on the first few posts in Day 1. Normally (At least where i played) Day 1 is a warm up, we get cozy and slowly introduce our playstyles to eachother hence my not so contribution to the actual objective. As also as a norm, I never do reads day 1 because it's too early to judge, too early to analyse, deduce, conclude and speak so confidently about my own thoughts when it comes to other players however I do understand why that may not be the case here because of the length of the days which personally i think is ridiculous but also logical in its own ways

Wasting a day on introductions only helps scum, not town.

[ConnorJC]

@Toblerone, if you had to kill someone right now who would it be.
@Connor, my reads are implicit in my earlier post. But I will explain any individual read if you wish, can you specifically point out why Dom is your biggest scum read?

At the time, it was because I didn't have enough info to scumread anyone else. His posts are all effectively prod dodges. I'd now say it's around tied with LoveSick for my top scum read.

can we brainstorm the possibility of Nachomamma, an IC, being mafia. Is this likely, anyone getting any Town reads off of him.

I was thinking he seems to be leading the game but I am not sure if that is his job as IC

Different ICs have different playstyles. Afaik they aren't supposed to/not supposed to lead the game.

[ConnorJC]

I like keeping the pressure in inactive players to give us some content. I can't read what I can't read.
For now I'll keep LoveSick in the back of my mind. I'd like to see more scumhunting and less self-defense from her, though.

UNVOTE: LoveSick
VOTE: TheDominator37

[ConnorJC]

@Toblerone, if you had to kill someone right now who would it be.
@Connor, my reads are implicit in my earlier post. But I will explain any individual read if you wish, can you specifically point out why Dom is your biggest scum read?

Who are your

scum

reads?

[ConnorJC]

I like keeping the pressure in inactive players to give us some content. I can't read what I can't read.
For now I'll keep LoveSick in the back of my mind. I'd like to see more scumhunting and less self-defense from her, though.

UNVOTE: LoveSick
VOTE: TheDominator37

Here's the wagon. Why not pressure other players instead of chasing after the ones Nacho keeps picking? It seems to be a trend of yours to do so. Obviously this cant just be you siding with a scum buddy but why waste time on the same person rather than pursue on other players' cases?

Wait, am I following nacho's votes? I didn't intend to do so.

I've been scumreading dom for awhile now, and its lack of content is starting to look scummier and scummier.

[ConnorJC]

I like keeping the pressure in inactive players to give us some content. I can't read what I can't read.
For now I'll keep LoveSick in the back of my mind. I'd like to see more scumhunting and less self-defense from her, though.

UNVOTE: LoveSick
VOTE: TheDominator37

Here's the wagon. Why not pressure other players instead of chasing after the ones Nacho keeps picking? It seems to be a trend of yours to do so. Obviously this cant just be you siding with a scum buddy but why waste time on the same person rather than pursue on other players' cases?

Wait, am I following nacho's votes? I didn't intend to do so.

I've been scumreading dom for awhile now, and its lack of content is starting to look scummier and scummier.

You will make a fine smith one day.

If you genuinely think so, sure. But just to clarify: if you're scum, complimenting me isn't going to get me to townread you.

[ConnorJC]

I like keeping the pressure in inactive players to give us some content. I can't read what I can't read.
For now I'll keep LoveSick in the back of my mind. I'd like to see more scumhunting and less self-defense from her, though.

UNVOTE: LoveSick
VOTE: TheDominator37

Here's the wagon. Why not pressure other players instead of chasing after the ones Nacho keeps picking? It seems to be a trend of yours to do so. Obviously this cant just be you siding with a scum buddy but why waste time on the same person rather than pursue on other players' cases?

Wait, am I following nacho's votes? I didn't intend to do so.

I've been scumreading dom for awhile now, and its lack of content is starting to look scummier and scummier.

Eyup, just a couple posts above your own vote. Nacho had simply voted for his inactivity and his self provlaimed activity starting self vote. He may be having troubles with interacting and picking players out and which ones to question - I know I sometimes have this feelinng which causes me to go silent in games as i feel its not my turn to speak.

I know nacho did in that instance - you claimed it was a pattern.

[ConnorJC]

Just checked, I apparently have only have voted with nacho. This is only over two votes though, and I wasn't right after him on the first vote (aka this is a coincidence).

[ConnorJC]

What's the cause of this bandwagon on me again? Inactivity? That's a bit unfair if you ask me considering i was asleep during all of the activity. (I wont be quoting posts because my only available source of playing this is my phone so I don't know how to format my posts with quotations on this particular forum)

I got townreads on a few of the players who were around early game because it seemed like they were hitting the ground running; you didn't. I made the vote with the knowledge that I could be taking it off shortly after you showed up and posted; that doesn't necessarily mean that it's time wasted.

This is a bit of an old post, but as I had stated. I had made a post to aknowledge the fact that the game has started instead of just not posting at all as I knew my day would be busy and I wasn't aware at which time the activity would spike up since I have never played with any of the people here. My problem wasn't with you voting, it was Superhan's wagon which troubled me as I believe that two (Arguably three as Connor later on hopped onto it) players trying to pressure me is a bit too much and time wasting as those other two votes could've been used on other players to get a rise out of them as well, hurrying the process of gathering information

I'd argue that getting information from exceptionally lurky players is better than gettting some out of an active one.

Now, can you please start contributing to finding scum and stop solely defending yourself

[ConnorJC]

A quick observation is all it was, for future reference more or less and to perhaps get you to target another player instead to save time (Not that we will be running out of it anytime soon..)

Why do you want me to target another player?

[ConnorJC]

What's the cause of this bandwagon on me again? Inactivity? That's a bit unfair if you ask me considering i was asleep during all of the activity. (I wont be quoting posts because my only available source of playing this is my phone so I don't know how to format my posts with quotations on this particular forum)

I got townreads on a few of the players who were around early game because it seemed like they were hitting the ground running; you didn't. I made the vote with the knowledge that I could be taking it off shortly after you showed up and posted; that doesn't necessarily mean that it's time wasted.

This is a bit of an old post, but as I had stated. I had made a post to aknowledge the fact that the game has started instead of just not posting at all as I knew my day would be busy and I wasn't aware at which time the activity would spike up since I have never played with any of the people here. My problem wasn't with you voting, it was Superhan's wagon which troubled me as I believe that two (Arguably three as Connor later on hopped onto it) players trying to pressure me is a bit too much and time wasting as those other two votes could've been used on other players to get a rise out of them as well, hurrying the process of gathering information

I'd argue that getting information from exceptionally lurky players is better than gettting some out of an active one.

Now, can you please start contributing to finding scum and stop solely defending yourself

Have my recent posts other than the one which you just quoted based on defending myself? I simply responded to Nacho as he had quoted my post.

I'd argue that pursuing information from more than one player at once is much more reasonable and logical than ganging up on one member who at that time wasnt reachable, is that not true?

Actually, reviewing your ISO, I do agree you're contributing more. It's weird you brought up such an old post just to defend yourself tbh.

[ConnorJC]

Having 3 votes on one player is way more pressure than having 1 vote on every player.

[ConnorJC]

LQ please respond to #227

[ConnorJC]

Let's just stop discussing the lurker trains now. It's not productive and a waste of time, as it already happened awhile ago, and nobody really seems to be able to find anything exceptionally scummy in them.

[ConnorJC]

I like commenting on people's (positive) potential in honest ways. I love this game and I want to encourage people to play it, therefore, I will complement people on their play (and other things) if I think they made a good play, I like their mindset or generally just like their vibe.

Fair enough. I don't really see LQ as scum to be honest.

[ConnorJC]

Hmm, town reads

LicketyQuickety

(Leaning Town)
While his lack of clarity is annoying, I'm pretty sure that's just part of his playstyle. His effort appears genuine.

LoveSick

(Town)
I've flipped here. I now agree with LQ that the whole Lovesick v Me thing was TvT.

I'm not as sure about these reads as I was of my previous scum reads.

pedit: I was so unsure here that there's a ton of posts that just popped up. This doesn't take those into account.

[ConnorJC]

After rereading the posts that just came in, I know don't think that Lovesick is as town. I'd say maybe leaning town.

@Lovesick, please provide some of your own reads.

[ConnorJC]

LoveSick

(Town)
I've flipped here. I now agree with LQ that the whole Lovesick v Me thing was TvT.

This is dangerous territory mate.

Could you explain why?

[ConnorJC]

For a variety of reasons, I would like to VOTE: LicketyQuickety

I'll have to leave for a bit, give me questions and I'll answer them in an hour or two.

Hmm, now looking at the vote count I see this is effectively a delayed OMGUS vote. That's interesting.

[ConnorJC]

LoveSick

(Town)
I've flipped here. I now agree with LQ that the whole Lovesick v Me thing was TvT.

This is dangerous territory mate.

Could you explain why?

You make it look like you are Totally fine giving yourself a Town read. Its used improperly, it can be misconstrued in horrific ways. It even give me some pause.

Oh, I see. Maybe that is better phrased as "I now agree with LQ that Lovesick attacking me was townish".

Of course, I now don't think that as much (see my recent posts).

[ConnorJC]

@Lovesick

@Lovesick, please provide some of your own reads.

[ConnorJC]

There are four different situations with the upcoming Rautherdir vs LicketyQuickety fight.

1) R is scum, trying to appear town-ish by using potentially broken logic to trick the town into lynching LQ.
2) R is town and LQ is scum and the logic he is working with is valid.
3) R is town and LQ is town (most likely), the argument will hopefully yield good content though.
4) Both R and LQ are mafia trying a really cliche technique of pretending to fight each other to gain town trust.

I personally think number 3 is most likely, and number 4 least likely, but wouldn't be surpised if 1/2 is the case.

We'll have to wait for Rautherdir to return before properly making an evaluations.

I need to see Rautherdir's logic before I can draw a conclusion here.

[ConnorJC]

After rereading the posts that just came in, I know don't think that Lovesick is as town. I'd say maybe leaning town.

@Lovesick, please provide some of your own reads.

I particularly don't think anyone is leaning town or mafia as of right now, however there are certain parts of people's playstyles which make me wary/cautious of them

Superhans - His very switchy behaviour where he hops from one thing to another, almost indecisively and usually dropping down on the people which he pursues after minimal effort ( Almost as if trying to blend town but trying to not get involved too much )

Connor - Continues to request reads from people after providing minimal ones himself, pursuing after players which are already being pursued. In my opinion following after Nacho a bit too much

Rautherdir - Justifying actions of others through Nacho's words and playstyle which I think is never justifiable as it is a preferred playstyle rather than something which should be followed.

These are some observations which I have made which make me cautious of the players.

So cautious doesn't mean leaning scum?

You're calling Superhans out on being switching and trying to blend in? That's exactly how I'd define

your

play so far.
I've provided reads twice. You'd provided reads 0 times before this post.

[ConnorJC]

I don't like LoveSick's play so far; however, I think she's just a confused townie, rather than scum.
I like the quantity of analysis by Superhans/LQ (even if I disagree with some of LQ's), they'd be my top town reads atm.

We're over the hour mark from Rautherdir's last post, so hopefully he'll post some more details about his vote soon.

[ConnorJC]

@ConnorJC, which of LicketyQuickety's do you disagree with?

@LicketyQuickety, please can you stop confusing players, its not going to help anybody bar you. It just slows down how quickly people can read all the comments, and make people more inclined to skipping through them and potentially missing clues.

This one's an example (Also see where I've disagreed in the past). I actually agree with the end result here (town) but the reasoning makes no sense to me.

Im still not sure what you mean but I think scum reads can be multitasked to an extent, if you cannot put pressure on two players then let another player deal with one of them? (Im sorry if Im miles off about what i understood from your post but im talking to someone on the phone )

Nope, exactly.

I think i had too much today because now im just sitting here a little puzzled at this response, congratulations I suppose on confusing the heck out of me right here

And I'm back to Town reading you.

[ConnorJC]

Um, @Reautherdir, would you now mind explaining your LQ vote if 5 is not a possibility?

[ConnorJC]

Oh, that post of your's was supposed to be reaons? Let me reread it then.

[ConnorJC]

I come back to ~75 more posts. Wow you guys are active. Beginning with his first post:

6: There was discussion about this, mostly resolving to that either LQ was rolefishing or he was stirring conversation. Either way, I really didn't get a town vibe from this move, due to the fact that he could have inadvertently revealed power roles in the following conversation.

38: Asking for information to figure out how experienced ConnorJC is. Not really indicative of town or scum.

42: Clarifies that 6 was a reaction test.

47: Notes that he doesn't read people the traditional way.

105: Goes back and forth as to whether he has more information or not. Could be breadcrumbing, actually.

130: Votes for me. That was an iffy reason to vote in my opinion, I made a mistake while reading the player list; is that really a good reason to think I'm scum?

158: There's no reason to go after a lurker by putting them at L-2. My comment probably wasn't the best way to phrase it, but what we were doing was quite frankly overkill.

159: I look forward to seeing your reasons to continue voting/unvote me after this post.

185: Could you please elaborate on this?

234: Or one of them could be a scum-mate. Who knows?

249: I didn't put any reasoning behind it at the time. Because I put my reasoning down afterwards.

262: That doesn't mean you don't defend yourself.

266: 5 is not a possibility.

284: Are you admitting to lying here?

There. Reasons. Please analyze them. LQ, could you answer the questions I asked in here?

I see literally no reason to vote LQ in this post, except maybe his post 6.

[ConnorJC]

What, is it normal for newbies to not even try to figure out what they're doing?

What were you referring to here?

Post #141

Man, you really like dragging up old posts.

[ConnorJC]

I have to be honest, you guys (and gal) are losing me with all these arguments and hypothesis

What is interesting to me is that at least 3 people asked for my views, but when I gave them, no-one was interested in them - maybe because they were not analytical enough?

You've given very little in the way of reads/views. As a matter of fact, I'd now like to ask for some more firm reads.

[ConnorJC]

Ok, so I'm going to be V/LA for 4-5 hours. Expect very little content from me.

Please if TheDom shows up don't let it get away with another 1-2 prod dodgy posts. It's currently contributed less than 1% of the discussion for this game, and we need more content to be able to make a read.

[ConnorJC]

Woah woah, hold up. Um on mobile so I can't really check right now.
Is TheDom at L-2 or L-1?

[ConnorJC]

I'm on mobile*

[ConnorJC]

I actually agree with LQ here, however I still think TheDom bandwagon is the place to be.
I'll be back at my computer in about 20 minutes, and I'll be back to spamming posts then.

[ConnorJC]

I actually agree with LQ here, however I still think TheDom bandwagon is the place to be.
I'll be back at my computer in about 20 minutes, and I'll be back to spamming posts then.

Keep this up and I will start to think you are trying to link myself to you as you being Scum and trying to take me down with you.

So agreeing with someone's reads is linking yourself to them?
You're the one that was complimenting me every 3-4 posts a couple pages ago.

[ConnorJC]

The goal for day one is to create conversation. A self-vote doesn't really have the ability to do that. Which is why it's considered scummy to vote for yourself.

It seems to be working rn

I don't like this attempt to take credit for starting conversation; it should be obvious that very little (if any at all) discussion is centering around your self-vote.

I also don't like the vote on Superhaus; seems like an easy vote to make with LQ backing you up.

Vote: TheDominator37

Then what started it if my wagon didn't?

Are you kidding me? I thought TheDom at least made 2 more posts, but I guess I read wrong.
TheDom is either a horrible town player or scum.

[ConnorJC]

Sure, I've agreed with you more than disagree, that's going to happen with some players. However, I haven't agreed with everything you say, see here for an obvious example:

@ConnorJC, which of LicketyQuickety's do you disagree with?

@LicketyQuickety, please can you stop confusing players, its not going to help anybody bar you. It just slows down how quickly people can read all the comments, and make people more inclined to skipping through them and potentially missing clues.

This one's an example (Also see where I've disagreed in the past). I actually agree with the end result here (town) but the reasoning makes no sense to me.

Im still not sure what you mean but I think scum reads can be multitasked to an extent, if you cannot put pressure on two players then let another player deal with one of them? (Im sorry if Im miles off about what i understood from your post but im talking to someone on the phone )

Nope, exactly.

I think i had too much today because now im just sitting here a little puzzled at this response, congratulations I suppose on confusing the heck out of me right here

And I'm back to Town reading you.

[ConnorJC]

The goal for day one is to create conversation. A self-vote doesn't really have the ability to do that. Which is why it's considered scummy to vote for yourself.

It seems to be working rn

I don't like this attempt to take credit for starting conversation; it should be obvious that very little (if any at all) discussion is centering around your self-vote.

I also don't like the vote on Superhaus; seems like an easy vote to make with LQ backing you up.

Vote: TheDominator37

Then what started it if my wagon didn't?

Are you kidding me? I thought TheDom at least made 2 more posts, but I guess I read wrong.
TheDom is either a horrible town player or scum.

So quick to judge the wrong things...

Yes, Dom has been sub par so far. But yes, I think he might pick his play up at some point. He is playing his game right now, let him do his thing (At least I will be pressuring him vicariously through other people, watching and waiting).
No, Dom is not either a horrible Town player or Scum. Not necessarily at least.

Maybe I was too harsh; however, he is

not

playing the game right now.

[ConnorJC]

The goal for day one is to create conversation. A self-vote doesn't really have the ability to do that. Which is why it's considered scummy to vote for yourself.

It seems to be working rn

I don't like this attempt to take credit for starting conversation; it should be obvious that very little (if any at all) discussion is centering around your self-vote.

I also don't like the vote on Superhaus; seems like an easy vote to make with LQ backing you up.

Vote: TheDominator37

Then what started it if my wagon didn't?

Are you kidding me? I thought TheDom at least made 2 more posts, but I guess I read wrong.
TheDom is either a horrible town player or scum.

So quick to judge the wrong things...

Yes, Dom has been sub par so far. But yes, I think he might pick his play up at some point. He is playing his game right now, let him do his thing (At least I will be pressuring him vicariously through other people, watching and waiting).
No, Dom is not either a horrible Town player or Scum. Not necessarily at least.

Maybe I was too harsh; however, he is

not

playing the game right now.

I would not be so quick to make that judgement either. he very well could be using himself as bait to see who easily hops on.

In my opinion that'd be terrible play. And if that's the case the 'quickly' part of that strategy is over, and he's still basically prod dodging.

[ConnorJC]

Sorry, I mean 'easily', not 'quickly'

[ConnorJC]

Sure, I've agreed with you more than disagree, that's going to happen with some players. However, I haven't agreed with everything you say, see here for an obvious example:

@ConnorJC, which of LicketyQuickety's do you disagree with?

@LicketyQuickety, please can you stop confusing players, its not going to help anybody bar you. It just slows down how quickly people can read all the comments, and make people more inclined to skipping through them and potentially missing clues.

This one's an example (Also see where I've disagreed in the past). I actually agree with the end result here (town) but the reasoning makes no sense to me.

Im still not sure what you mean but I think scum reads can be multitasked to an extent, if you cannot put pressure on two players then let another player deal with one of them? (Im sorry if Im miles off about what i understood from your post but im talking to someone on the phone )

Nope, exactly.

I think i had too much today because now im just sitting here a little puzzled at this response, congratulations I suppose on confusing the heck out of me right here

And I'm back to Town reading you.

how do you judge the motive of Lovesick in that post? I find people are easiest to read when they don't think they are being read. Do you understand that?

That's a good insight, I'll make sure to remember that. As for motive, I'm assuming you mean post #272. Although, motive would be to relieve pressure from whoever was being wagoned at the point (Don't remember exactly who it was). She also could just disagree with strategy there - I think I posted around that time I thought LoveSick was a confused townie.

[ConnorJC]

For reference, TheDom was at L-3 at the time of the post, and lurkers were generally getting wagoned around then.

[ConnorJC]

Just checked, I apparently have only have voted with nacho. This is only over two votes though, and I wasn't right after him on the first vote (aka this is a coincidence).

This is something I would try and pull if I was Scum in your shoes.

Are you saying you now think I'm scum?

[ConnorJC]

I'm reviewing LoveSick's ISO at the moment. I'm early into analyzing the posts, but as far as I can see LoveSick has defended TheDom a lot. I find this weird because TheDom has contributed very little, so I wonder why LoveSick would prop it up so much. This could be a response to getting hammered pretty hard as a lurker herself though.

[ConnorJC]

Or we could switch to me v LQ. I'm not backing down until I hear LQ's current reasons to vote me.

I know this is kinda old, but why do you want yourself vs LQ?

[ConnorJC]

UNVOTE: TheDominator37
VOTE: Nachomamma8
I think it's time we got some scum.

[ConnorJC]

@ConnorJC,
Why do you think Nacho is scum?

Also considering his vast experience, and how logical he has been (so far), do you think that if he were actually scum, we would have a chance of proving it, and lynching him?

I don't think that anybody could get another player lynched right now, except maybe a really stupid quickhammer from both scum.

[ConnorJC]

I'm reviewing LoveSick's ISO at the moment. I'm early into analyzing the posts, but as far as I can see LoveSick has defended TheDom a lot. I find this weird because TheDom has contributed very little, so I wonder why LoveSick would prop it up so much. This could be a response to getting hammered pretty hard as a lurker herself though.

I don't find it that surprising. Lovesick was very anti-lurk-lynching (just see how angry she is that we are picking on random lurkers)

What's the cause of this bandwagon on me again? Inactivity? That's a bit unfair if you ask me considering i was asleep during all of the activity. (I wont be quoting posts because my only available source of playing this is my phone so I don't know how to format my posts with quotations on this particular forum)

[...]

Now i wont continue with the excuses as the bottom line is that it was very inconvenient of the time the game started and when the activity had spiked up. So Nachos, how is it a good idea to start hunting for lurkers when 24 hours hasn't past, not giving the players enough time to post as they may have things going on in their lives or are simply asleep? Also for the others which had jumped the wagon on myself, explain to me what type of evidence are you trying to gather from this?

Personally in my opinion, the only right moment for lurker hunting is if they had contributed nothing at all and half of our given time has gone. I mean otherwise, hunting for lurkers is a very easy way of lynching players and if done right, can be an advantage to the scum more so than the town as the ratio of mafia to town is 2:7.

I think that the LoveSick-TheDom scumteam could be a thing. However, it's very hard to tell when I'm only able to read one of them.
However, if Lovesick continues to defend TheDominator, it could be a very legitimate scum read.

[ConnorJC]

I'm reviewing LoveSick's ISO at the moment. I'm early into analyzing the posts, but as far as I can see LoveSick has defended TheDom a lot. I find this weird because TheDom has contributed very little, so I wonder why LoveSick would prop it up so much. This could be a response to getting hammered pretty hard as a lurker herself though.

I don't find it that surprising. Lovesick was very anti-lurk-lynching (just see how angry she is that we are picking on random lurkers)

What's the cause of this bandwagon on me again? Inactivity? That's a bit unfair if you ask me considering i was asleep during all of the activity. (I wont be quoting posts because my only available source of playing this is my phone so I don't know how to format my posts with quotations on this particular forum)

[...]

Now i wont continue with the excuses as the bottom line is that it was very inconvenient of the time the game started and when the activity had spiked up. So Nachos, how is it a good idea to start hunting for lurkers when 24 hours hasn't past, not giving the players enough time to post as they may have things going on in their lives or are simply asleep? Also for the others which had jumped the wagon on myself, explain to me what type of evidence are you trying to gather from this?

Personally in my opinion, the only right moment for lurker hunting is if they had contributed nothing at all and half of our given time has gone. I mean otherwise, hunting for lurkers is a very easy way of lynching players and if done right, can be an advantage to the scum more so than the town as the ratio of mafia to town is 2:7.

However, if Lovesick continues to defend TheDominator, it could be a very legitimate scum read.

I think that the LoveSick-TheDom scumteam could be a thing. However, it's very hard to tell when I'm only able to read one of them.

EBWOP

[ConnorJC]

@Superhans, what are your thoughts on toblerone?

[ConnorJC]

I'm getting Town reads on Toblerone based mainly because his content is transparent, and also seemingly pro-Town (although its too early in the game for this to be a reliable read).
By transparent I mean that he isn't cryptic like LQ, or waffling/off topic like Lovesick. I like that fact that he backed me up when I said I didn't understand half of what LQ is saying, and promoting clarity is what a town player would want to do.


The post that we may want to be addressing is 335:

I have to be honest, you guys (and gal) are losing me with all these arguments and hypothesis

What is interesting to me is that at least 3 people asked for my views, but when I gave them, no-one was interested in them - maybe because they were not analytical enough?

^@Toblerone, Apologies on behalf of all of us who may have neglected your analysis. Please re-post any of your views, or suggest any new scum/town reads that you may have.

It's because this was all of his reads. What he said was basically just a rehash of what other people had already said. This could be because he's new, or because he's scum that's way too careful.

[ConnorJC]

Ok, so looks like my most recent vote didn't pay off at all. For now:

UNVOTE: Nachomamma8

[ConnorJC]

@Mod, requesting a prod of FancyPants, as over 24 hours have passed since his last post, and it's the weekend (24 hour prods if I read the rules right)

[ConnorJC]

@Mod, requesting a prod of FancyPants, as over 24 hours have passed since his last post, and it's the weekend (24 hour prods if I read the rules right)

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- You must post at least once every 48 hours or I will Prod you. You then have 24 hours to post in the game thread or I will replace you. The activity timers run at half-speed on weekends. If you need to be absent for longer than this, you should declare

V/LA

in bold in the thread like this: [

b]

@Mod: I will be v/la until Thursday

[

/b]. Players can request me to prod somebody early. This will only count as an official prod if you don't post before you would have been due for a prod.

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Oh, I'm sorry, didn't understand the rules. My bad.

For more relevance to the game, we need more activity. Nothing going on just helps scum

[ConnorJC]

@Toblerone
What do you think about ConnorJC voting for Nacho and then unvoting before Nacho even had a chance to respond?
Is this town/scum/noob play?

406

To me it seems like a scummy play. Almost like

pretending

that he is looking for a reaction but hardly giving it any time. Little more than 12 hours during which I do not believe Nacho came in the thread. Hard for someone to react if they do not read the thread!

I actually wanted to see Rautherdir and LQ's reactions, however that didn't really work out.

Who would you like to speak up right now and about what?

Obviously Fancypants and Dominator but I guess everyone feels the same.

LQ I would like to hear more sense from and Connor I would like to know what he thinks of what I think of him

Writing about that (and your reads in general) right now.

[ConnorJC]

I think ConnorJC voting then inviting is noob town play and that Conjor lacked the patience for Nacho to join us.

I didn't want nacho to respond to that vote, that wasn't its purpose. I agree it was noob town play though.

[ConnorJC]

TheDominator37

- a total of 4 posts since the start of the game! Just seems to be doing enough to not get prodded. The frustrating thing is that it

has

been online but has totally ignored the game. Either a lazy irresponsible town or a very shy scum

I agree here - I'm going to put down TheDom as scum until it gives me a reason not to.

LicketyQuickety

- frankly I simply cannot understand half of what he is saying. His posts are confusing and full of game theory and Self-aggrandisement. IMO this does not help town at all. And after all the "non-traditional methods" crap it turns out he just uses gut reactions! Well welcome to the club - I'm a noob and that is what I do! No real read because I find reading his posts boring and confusing but gut reaction is that he is trying to bury town under a moutain of "paperwork" therefore scum. I don;t think he is helping town hunt scum.

Where is everyone getting this LQ's reads are 100% gut reaction thing from? His posts can be confusing though, I wish he'd clarify - as his reasoning appears to be good, just his way of saying it is bad.

Nachomamma8

- my gut reaction here is town. He seems to be questioning people in a sensible manner and trying to get clarification from them on things. Ok I am inexperienced but that seems to me to be the way to go about things.

I don't know here. I originally thought a LQ-Nacho scumteam might be a possibility, but I'm fairly sure this isn't the case now; however, I'm not ready to write off Nacho as town just yet.

Rautherdir

- no strong read. One thing I liked was that when he voted LQ and said he would come back with a variety of reasons. And he did - he had clearly analysed LQ's posts

I don't - I thought his reasons were nearly non-existent.

Lovesick

- still leaning town but would like to see more scumhunting and less fluff

I think if Lovesick is scum there's a good chance her partner is TheDom.

FancyPants

- definitely leaning scum. So little content posted (I know he said he would not be very active at the weekend but still very little on Friday). Of all the possible questions he could ask and all the content he could comment on, he just wanted to know who I would kill and why Connor thought Dom was scum!

I actually thought he said he would be active on the weekend (That's why I asked for the prod). It looks like I was wrong, he said

after

the weekend. I'll look for more of his content come Monday.

Superhans

- no real suspicions here. Generally town feel

My theory is that this is because Superhans asked toblerone for his reads.

ConnorJC

- this is one that I have a strong scum feel for. Mainly gut feel but there were a couple of things such as when LQ said he was agreeing with him a lot and he quickly defended himself. Also I keep going back to him answering questions on behalf of others

My nacho vote was a pretty bad play, I'll admit. I'm surprised you have a strong scum feel for me with that reasoning though, especially with LoveSick's early posts.

[ConnorJC]

While you're here - @superhans - who do you think is scum?

[ConnorJC]

Assumption being that you weren't in the element to pursue on my behaviour towards Denominator, why do you think that I would associate myself with a player so strongly? Do you think a scum would blantantly and boldly defend their own? - This is not me defending myself but trying to gather what Connor thinks.

I don't think it was that obvious until reviewed after the fact. It certainly wasn't mentioned until several pages after it happened.
I expect that scum, at least at the beginning of the game, are far more likely to defend their own rather than a random player, just because it's the natural thing to do.

[ConnorJC]

@Lovesick, excluding yourself, who do you think has the best reads right now and why?

[ConnorJC]

@Lovesick, excluding yourself, who do you think has the best reads right now and why?

Im unsure of whether by this you mean the reads made on people or the person they are made by, I'm going go with the first assumption though feel free to nudge me in the right direction if I'm wrong.

Well not many people have had published a full list of reads which makes matters quite difficult ( I should eventually get to publishing actual reads on people but I rather withdraw until Denominator and Fancy contribute a bit more to give me a more rounded and fair overview on them ) I think the person which has had the best reads so far is Superhans - despite my wariness of his jumpy playstyle, he has managed to actually get a quite townish/neutral read from Tob and no one other than myself has found his playstyle that scummy. Though once again it's very hard to decide as some reads are outdated and should be updated along with two members being inactive and not full reads made on all players.

I didn't mean who is getting townread the most - I meant who has the best reads.

Assumption being that you weren't in the element to pursue on my behaviour towards Denominator, why do you think that I would associate myself with a player so strongly? Do you think a scum would blantantly and boldly defend their own? - This is not me defending myself but trying to gather what Connor thinks.

I don't think it was that obvious until reviewed after the fact. It certainly wasn't mentioned until several pages after it happened.
I expect that scum, at least at the beginning of the game, are far more likely to defend their own rather than a random player, just because it's the natural thing to do.

Oh.. Do you consider utter voidance and distance inbetween two players during a game a scumplay or disregard as just no aknowledgement from either towards eachother?

That's more dependent on context. Also, I'm not looking for "plays", or what players do intentionally. I think scum players instinctively (aka an unintentional pattern) help their buddies in the period following RVS more than other players.

Getting to the second page now.

[ConnorJC]

I feel that ConnorJC fighting Lovesick on the theory that Lovesick and TheDominator could both be mafia is kinda far-fetched. Not saying that they couldn't but I think ConnorJC is over-reading Lovesick defending Dom.
ConnorJC in post 413 Lovesick denounces TheDominator.

I've got a gut feel that your fighting is TvT.

Ah, so you mean

after

I called her out on it?

[ConnorJC]

I feel that ConnorJC fighting Lovesick on the theory that Lovesick and TheDominator could both be mafia is kinda far-fetched. Not saying that they couldn't but I think ConnorJC is over-reading Lovesick defending Dom.
ConnorJC in post 413 Lovesick denounces TheDominator.

I've got a gut feel that your fighting is TvT.

Are you speaking to me or LoveSick here?

[ConnorJC]

@connorJC both of you.

Ok, then how about this. Why speak to us specifically instead of the game as a whole?

[ConnorJC]

Superhans, What is your read on Rautherdir. Rautherdir, what is your read on Superhans?

I have a gut feeling that these two could be Scum together. Their interaction with each other is far too polite for my liking and generally doesn't lead anywhere.

Why would you tell them that?

[ConnorJC]

Superhans, What is your read on Rautherdir. Rautherdir, what is your read on Superhans?

I have a gut feeling that these two could be Scum together. Their interaction with each other is far too polite for my liking and generally doesn't lead anywhere.

Why would you tell them that?

I thought about that. I am not telling them, I am telling everyone.

In my opinion it would've been better to wait for superhans to reply and then tell everyone that.

[ConnorJC]

What I find interesting is that TheDominator is on the forum's active list but isn't posting here. It seems that its lack of posts is intentional.
Now, what conclusions we should draw from that, I have no idea rn.

pedit: Thought I'd point this out while it's relevant, but don't let me distract the superhans/rautherdir stuff going on

[ConnorJC]

UNVOTE: TheDominator37

May I have a reason with that unvote?

UNVOTE: TheDominator37

May I have a reason with that unvote?

I voted TheDominator37 because the game had started and there was no solid evidence to base a lynching.

I actually voted TheDominator37 just because he had happened to have voted for himself that I joked was a slightly scummy thing to do.

I'm unvoting because I'm fairly sure I'll be voting more constructively, (I have my eyes on ConnorJC and LQ). I also will be happy to focus on any lurkers (although will probably wait a bit longer before considering the Lurker Wagon).

What I find interesting is that TheDominator is on the forum's active list but isn't posting here. It seems that its lack of posts is intentional.
Now, what conclusions we should draw from that, I have no idea rn.

pedit: Thought I'd point this out while it's relevant, but don't let me distract the superhans/rautherdir stuff going on

I alluded to this before - That Dom could be not posting on purpose as a reaction test. Dom is seeing me taking the lead and seems fine with that.

I know you did; however, now that its bandwagon has cooled down, I think that it's about time TheDom showed us some content.

[ConnorJC]

@Rautherdir, if you had to pick right now, do you think superhans is town or scum?

[ConnorJC]

BTW, I have a Town read on Dom.

I almost feel like you're fishing for reactions again here.

LQ, what do you think of a Rautherdir-Lovesick scumteam?

[ConnorJC]

Okay.

Connor, what do you think of a TheDominator-LQ scum team?

If TheDom is scum, I think LoveSick is a more probable partner.

[ConnorJC]

LQ, are you still townreading lovesick?

[ConnorJC]

Ratherdir, do you still think LQ is scum, and if so, who do you think his partner is?

[ConnorJC]

The only reason I have for thinking LQ is mafia at this point is his possible rolefishing post 6, and his failure to adequately explain some of his votes when they were made. Now that I know his primary reason for those votes was a gut feeling I no longer read him as mafia, but I still don't like his post 6.

You're still pushing that all I do is based on gut, huh? Then you are light years behind me.

I mean, this is a direct quote from your wiki page:

Trust your Gut- The single best way to read people.

[ConnorJC]

I'm going to read LQ as town for now.
To be honest, I'm not really sure how to continue now.

[ConnorJC]

How do you read me?

Why do you want to know?

[ConnorJC]

You're very noncommittal, almost like you're a scum trying to blend in. I don't like the part of the game where you jump on every lurker bandwagon one after another. I like you voting LQ, but I don't like the reasons you ended up providing for it.

[ConnorJC]

You're very noncommittal, almost like you're a scum trying to blend in. I don't like the part of the game where you jump on every lurker bandwagon one after another. I like you voting LQ, but I don't like the reasons you ended up providing for it.

how many games have you played? I am interested because IMO you show great promise.

This is my first forum mafia game. I've played a little of SC2 Mafia/Town of Salem.

[ConnorJC]

However, in my experience, the dynamic in those games is mostly following the power roles to victory until you get to the really good players.

[ConnorJC]

However, in my experience, the dynamic in those games is mostly following the power roles to victory until you get to the really good players.

That also explains why you are following me. My my, I have painted myself a better player than I really am. I feel completely arrogant about that. *sigh*

No, I mean power roles (Cop would be a good example here), not what you're calling power players.

[ConnorJC]

However, in my experience, the dynamic in those games is mostly following the power roles to victory until you get to the really good players.

That also explains why you are following me. My my, I have painted myself a better player than I really am. I feel completely arrogant about that. *sigh*

No, I mean power roles (Cop would be a good example here), not what you're calling power players.

You have also been following Nacho.

I disagree there; however, none of this really has any relevance to the game.

[ConnorJC]

You sure?

Well, feel free to tell me how me following/not following certain players helps you discover my alignment.

[ConnorJC]

Hi all if you have anything specific to ask me ask now. I apologise for my absence but this thread has exploded in a very busy weekend for me, and has ceased to become a game I can follow in idle moments.
I'll do a full read list and my game analysis this evening when I have a solid three hours to read and think. Until then as I said bring your most pertinent questions to the fore.

Please be thorough, you could easily see something we missed.

[ConnorJC]

You're very noncommittal, almost like you're a scum trying to blend in. I don't like the part of the game where you jump on every lurker bandwagon one after another. I like you voting LQ, but I don't like the reasons you ended up providing for it.

Haven't you been doing the same though? Isn't there much hypocrisy as you haven't stuck with votes which could get some good content out of them, Eg. Your vote on Nacho. However you jumped on every lurker wagon and stuck with it for longer than you should have?

I'm not sure how to best describe it - but I'd call my play unsure, while I'd call Rautherdir's noncommittal. It's more of a feeling, but it's based around the fact that Rautherdir hasn't really put much effort behind any of his votes/reads.

[ConnorJC]

Maybe it's a newbie thing, but I really don't like these parts with players asking for reads on themself, as I feel that's a concern mainly for scum.

[ConnorJC]

Connor, why do you think that Dom is a bad line of pursuit? So far, the only contribution he's managed to make is attempting to take credit for starting the game, which doesn't really seem like a town mindset to me.

If we don't find anything better by the end of the day I'd happily lynch Dom; however, there's no point pressuring a player who's only posts are prod dodges when I could be looking for scum where I have information.

[ConnorJC]

@FancyPants, who do you think would be Rautherdir's partner? Me or TheDom?

[ConnorJC]

Not certain of anyone really, the scum team could be Nacho and Super, I can only make the best decisions possible.

But you just gave those two strong town reads?

[ConnorJC]

Connor, why do you think that Dom is a bad line of pursuit? So far, the only contribution he's managed to make is attempting to take credit for starting the game, which doesn't really seem like a town mindset to me.

If we don't find anything better by the end of the day I'd happily lynch Dom; however, there's no point pressuring a player who's only posts are prod dodges when I could be looking for scum where I have information.

If you think Dom has the greatest chance for flipping scum, you should probably vote him; keeping your vote somewhere doesn't mean that you can't use your words to look somewhere else.

Well, if someone jumps out as really scummy I'd rather lynch them. There's no need to rush out and lynch TheDom.

[ConnorJC]

Hi all if you have anything specific to ask me ask now. I apologise for my absence but this thread has exploded in a very busy weekend for me, and has ceased to become a game I can follow in idle moments.
I'll do a full read list and my game analysis this evening when I have a solid three hours to read and think. Until then as I said bring your most pertinent questions to the fore.

Please be thorough, you could easily see something we missed.

This is an interesting post from Connor - it seems to be saying "Look at me! I am town! I am trying to hunt scum"
An unnecessary post I think

I meant that we could easily be overlooking things via confirmation bias. Having a completely new person review the game is likely to catch things we missed. Also, I wanted to encourage FancyPants, welcoming him into the game because I never really got a chance to do so.

[ConnorJC]

@Rautherdir, who do you think is scum (excepting lurkers) and why?

[ConnorJC]

There were two reasons I voted LQ. One was post 6. The other was his failure to produce a reason for his vote on me.

Thanks for clarifying your reasoning was garbage. Honestly I'm starting to think you're trying to start a wagon because LQ's mysteriousness is unpopular, and not because he's scummy.

[ConnorJC]

@ConnorJC, If you could kill

THREE

people right now (woo hoo) who would they be?

There's only two scum. Anyways, it would be Rautherdir first, then TheDom. Third would likely be based on whether I hit 0, 1, or 2 mafia with those kills, unless I had to submit them all at once, in which case my third would probably be LoveSick.

[ConnorJC]

@ConnorJC, If you could kill

THREE

people right now (woo hoo) who would they be?

There's only two scum. Anyways, it would be Rautherdir first, then TheDom. Third would likely be based on whether I hit 0, 1, or 2 mafia with those kills, unless I had to submit them all at once, in which case my third would probably be LoveSick.

Are your scum-reads on Lovesick based on her defending TheDominator (as you accused her of in 400) or do you have additional/ more gut based reads?

More gut based if anything; however, another major component would be that during the beginning something like 70%-80% of her posts were self-defense. I had to ask 2-3 times just to get some lackluster reads.

[ConnorJC]

There were two reasons I voted LQ. One was post 6. The other was his failure to produce a reason for his vote on me.

He just did produce a sick reason for voting for you, as have I in post 604.

Post 6 was a very very very weak reason indeed. Why include 14 points if all bar one is valid?
Also which scenario out of the 4 here:

There are four different situations with the upcoming Rautherdir vs LicketyQuickety fight.

1) R is scum, trying to appear town-ish by using potentially broken logic to trick the town into lynching LQ.
2) R is town and LQ is scum and the logic he is working with is valid.
3) R is town and LQ is town (most likely), the argument will hopefully yield good content though.
4) Both R and LQ are mafia trying a really cliche technique of pretending to fight each other to gain town trust.

I personally think number 3 is most likely, and number 4 least likely, but wouldn't be surpised if 1/2 is the case.

We'll have to wait for Rautherdir to return before properly making an evaluations.

Do you think is the case and why?

Okay, to be perfectly honest? My vote was to get him to give me a reason for voting me in the first place. After I saw that was going nowhere I put my vote on TheDom who I am almost certain at this point is scum. Out of those, probably 3. I'm coming to the conclusion that post 6 was just an RVS thing.

So your vote on LQ was self defense?

[ConnorJC]

That, and I didn't like his lack of reasoning and found it pretty scummy.

This pushed Ruatherdir to my top scum read, over TheDom.

[ConnorJC]

Ok, so I'm not sure how much the new players here know; however, if you intend to hammer a wagon please state intent first to give that person a chance to claim/whatever.

[ConnorJC]

Yeah, except if for some ridiculous line of logic I decided to claim doctor there would probably be at least one other town player who could reliably call me out on it.

Pedit: 609 for my reads.

Are you admitting to being scum?

[ConnorJC]

No. Look at the chart in post 3.

My point is that your post only makes sense from a scum mindset, as you don't really get to choose what to claim as town.

[ConnorJC]

I'm not scum though. Though the other Power role could probably realize something I've left out and hinted at a few times.

The

other

power role?

Are you claiming tracker or doctor then?

[ConnorJC]

Ok, honestly, I'd vote Rautherdir, but I need to go check that he's at L-2 and not L-1

[ConnorJC]

Yeah, I haven't factored in your recent action. The reasons FancyPants voted me are true, I haven't really posted much of value due to my own ineptitude and my ill-thought out attack on LQ pretty much sealed my fate, I can't really prove him wrong because I don't want to shift from TheDominator and it hasn't posted enough content for me to make any actual attacks against it. FancyPants I read as town. Even though he's voting me.

Pedit: I'm at L-2 I think.

Who do you think TheDom's partner is then?

[ConnorJC]

LQ defended it. Lovesick defended it, but then took that back. So I'm going to say one of them. Here's a suggestion though: don't flip-flop. It gets you lynched.

There's a difference between flip-flopping with good reasoning each time, and jumping on random bandwagons while barely contributing to them at all.

[ConnorJC]

I'm not as sure about Rautherdir scum now. I like that he stuck with his TheDom read, didn't try to change it to get out of being lynched.

[ConnorJC]

Ok, so assuming Rautherdir is town (I'm not convinced yet, but let's look at every possibility), then who is scum?
FP? Superhans?

[ConnorJC]

@Lovesick, what are your thoughts on a town (maybe PR?) Rautherdir?

[ConnorJC]

Oh man, I feel like such an idiot. I sat refreshing at the last post on a page and missed the new page. Catching up on last two pages real quick.

UNVOTE: TheDominator37
VOTE: Nachomamma8
I think it's time we got some scum.

Talk to me about your vote here; you say that it wasn't a reaction test, but clearly you expected something from it. What was your goal with this vote?

It was a reaction test, I just wanted Rautherdir's and LQ's reactions, didn't care about yours.

[ConnorJC]

I'm going to read LQ as town for now.
To be honest, I'm not really sure how to continue now.

You're very noncommittal, almost like you're a scum trying to blend in. I don't like the part of the game where you jump on every lurker bandwagon one after another. I like you voting LQ, but I don't like the reasons you ended up providing for it.

Why would you say that you didn't know how to continue when you had a scumread that you hadn't yet attempted to pursue?

That, and I didn't like his lack of reasoning and found it pretty scummy.

Connor, why did you scumread this post?

To be honest, I didn't make that read until Rautherdir asked me to look at him.

I scumread it because he flat out admitted his motive was self defense rather than actually finding LQ scummy.

[ConnorJC]

Ok, so looks like my most recent vote didn't pay off at all. For now:

UNVOTE: Nachomamma8

Mate, R didn't post at ally before you took your vote off.

Mate, you've been following wagons and then you do something out of character: You vote the IC as a reaction test.

When you do a reaction test, its best to tell what info you got out of it, otherwise it just looks like you are saying you did a reaction test to cover your ass.

You're the one promoting confusing play . I didn't get much out of it, because I pulled out too quickly.

[ConnorJC]

I'm not scum though. Though the other Power role could probably realize something I've left out and hinted at a few times.

The

other

power role?

Are you claiming tracker or doctor then?

Ok I am confused here about whether Rauther has claimed and

what

he has claimed
Looking at the matrix, at this stage Mafia can have no idea which PRs town have. Even if Rauther is a Mafia roleblocker there are still 4 possible town PRs, correct? And he could not safely claim tracker as a cop or jailkeeper could call him out on that yes?

@Connor, why did you only mention tracker or doctor? Am I missing something?

He's very confident that there is another power role. Tracker and doctor are the two power roles that always also have another power role in the setup. However, other PRs (Cop and jailkeeper) could have a vanilla townie in their setup. Rautherdir seems to be more confident than that 50-50 that he's not alone.

[ConnorJC]

I'm not scum though. Though the other Power role could probably realize something I've left out and hinted at a few times.

The

other

power role?

Are you claiming tracker or doctor then?

Ok I am confused here about whether Rauther has claimed and

what

he has claimed
Looking at the matrix, at this stage Mafia can have no idea which PRs town have. Even if Rauther is a Mafia roleblocker there are still 4 possible town PRs, correct? And he could not safely claim tracker as a cop or jailkeeper could call him out on that yes?

@Connor, why did you only mention tracker or doctor? Am I missing something?

He's very confident that there is another power role. Tracker and doctor are the two power roles that always also have another power role in the setup. However, other PRs (Cop and jailkeeper) could have a vanilla townie in their setup. Rautherdir seems to be more confident than that 50-50 that he's not alone.

RBers also know there are 2 PRs in the game.

Yes, but I somehow doubt Rautherdir is going to claim RBer .

[ConnorJC]

Also, it would be really awkward for an RBer to fakeclaim, because they don't know which setup it is, so it's likely they'll get hit with a counterclaim.

The only real evidence that Rautherdir might be an RBer is #675. It can be interpreted as rolefishing, but I can also see it as Rautherdir trying to tell another PR something.

[ConnorJC]

Also, it looks like I don't know how to read the setup. 1-Shot BP is also on the knows there are 2 PRs list.

[ConnorJC]

Also, it looks like I don't know how to read the setup. 1-Shot BP is also on the knows there are 2 PRs list.

Right, the only PR that R can't be is Cop. So then why were they all over me for my 6?

Jailkeeper as well

[ConnorJC]

Posting to confirm, reading through the thread now

The goal for day one is to create conversation. A self-vote doesn't really have the ability to do that. Which is why it's considered scummy to vote for yourself.

It seems to be working rn

I don't like this attempt to take credit for starting conversation; it should be obvious that very little (if any at all) discussion is centering around your self-vote.

I also don't like the vote on Superhaus; seems like an easy vote to make with LQ backing you up.

Vote: TheDominator37

Then what started it if my wagon didn't?

@MOD, can we get a prod on Dom?

I thought Dom's play was a reaction test?

[ConnorJC]

Posting to confirm, reading through the thread now

The goal for day one is to create conversation. A self-vote doesn't really have the ability to do that. Which is why it's considered scummy to vote for yourself.

It seems to be working rn

I don't like this attempt to take credit for starting conversation; it should be obvious that very little (if any at all) discussion is centering around your self-vote.

I also don't like the vote on Superhaus; seems like an easy vote to make with LQ backing you up.

Vote: TheDominator37

Then what started it if my wagon didn't?

@MOD, can we get a prod on Dom?

I thought Dom's play was a reaction test?

Only until they are prodded. Now, its either that they are Scum or they have lost interest in the game (or they are busy with other things). Was going to bring this up earlier and I really should have, but I wanted to see if he would've posted without me saying anything. I took the risk that he would post and he hasn't.

We'll see. He has about 17 hours left to post before he gets a real prod.

[ConnorJC]

@Mod you're 12 hours off with those timers

[ConnorJC]

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[ConnorJC]

We also haven't spent enough time on Toblerone's "town slip" it's the difference between him being all but confirmed or sinister scum.

@Toblerone, why didn't you realise scum couldn't talk during the day despite playing scum the last time you played? And tell the truth or I'll know .
@Connor, will you please come up with some sort of scum subset for me, let's say your best bet for the two scum?

I've happy with the pressure Super is putting on Lovesick but it feels a little OMGUSey, still I agree Lovesick needs to put her cards on the table, the time for evasiveness is long past.

@LQ, I'm not sure why you come to the conclusion that Rautherdir can only be BP, tracker or Doc? Feels like a pretty awkward RB-slip.

On mobile right now, will put together a more complete reads list in a couple hours. Top pair would be TheDom-Somebody Else; provably LoveSick, but I want to read ISOs before I say for sure.

Rautherdir is certain there's another PR, which he could only be if he was BP, tracker, or doc (Or RB). Doc and cop only have 50% certainty that there's another PR, and R looks way more than 50% certain.

[ConnorJC]

@Rautherdir I have read your ISO and believe I understand your hints. very very subtle, and took me quite a while... your secret is safe with me.

Why would you ever post this?

[ConnorJC]

Personally in my opinion, the only right moment for lurker hunting is if they had contributed nothing at all and half of our given time has gone. I mean otherwise, hunting for lurkers is a very easy way of lynching players and if done right, can be an advantage to the scum more so than the town as the ratio of mafia to town is 2:7.

If I have solid townreads on three people and I lynch a lurker, I have a 40% chance of lynching scum. If I have solid townreads on 5 people and I lynch a lurker, I have a 66% chance of lynching scum. You point out that the odds are against us early but that shouldn't mean anything; when we lynch we aren't lynching randomly and waiting for information to fall into our lap is silly when there is no guarantee it will ever do so.

But there is still a chance that your "solid town read" can be scum right?

I swear, if this is all TheDom posts we should consider lynching him, even if it's just a policy lynch.

[ConnorJC]

Anyways, with regard to its latest prod dodge.

VOTE: TheDominator37

[ConnorJC]

Oh, sorry, forgot to add this:

That's L-2

[ConnorJC]

Hmm, I really hope we have TheDon on board for real now.

[ConnorJC]

Nacho why the push for my lynch? You misrepped connor to try and get him to join me.

Misrepped? I'm not familiar with that term.

[ConnorJC]

ConnorJC. Your constantly following Nacho. I'm not the first to mention that.

Hard claim would be naming the specific PR.

[ConnorJC]

ConnorJC. Your constantly following Nacho. I'm not the first to mention that.

It's interested that you're still pushing me+nacho but not me+LQ.

Whoops wrong comment with that quote. EBWOP

[ConnorJC]

Nacho why the push for my lynch? You misrepped connor to try and get him to join me.

Misrepped? I'm not familiar with that term.

Misrepresented- when someone says one thing and another person distorts that to acheive a goal. In our case you had your readlist and nacho said that you should vote for me because I was your biggest scum read.

I see, thanks.

[ConnorJC]

This is very interesting. I feel there's at least 1 scum in Nacho/TheDom/LQ, but I don't know who it is.

[ConnorJC]

Ok, so I'm going to guess either Nacho or TheDom are mafia, with a high likelihood that LQ is scum if TheDom is.

@TheDom, you haven't really addressed this: What was the purpose of your extended lurking?

[ConnorJC]

@ConnorJC
What makes you think that LQ is scum buddying with Dominator? Is it just LQ not scum reading Dominator earlier in the game?

Well, not only did LQ not scum read TheDom, he

town

read him. And then after TheDom makes a few cathup posts he comes in bragging about how right he was with almost no proof.

[ConnorJC]

Ok, so I'm going to guess either Nacho or TheDom are mafia, with a high likelihood that LQ is scum if TheDom is.

@TheDom, you haven't really addressed this: What was the purpose of your extended lurking?

I don't really see LQ/Dom as possible scum partners; why do you?

Why do you think that I could be scum over Dom? Why am I scum if he's town?

I don't see you pushing so hard on TheDom as a lurker if he was your scum partner.

[ConnorJC]

Well, not only did LQ not scum read TheDom, he town read him. And then after TheDom makes a few cathup posts he comes in bragging about how right he was with almost no proof.

Do you think that LQ believes that he can stop Dom's lynch by townreading him with no proof?

Is TheDom's lynch inevitable?

[ConnorJC]

(Conservative) Reads list:

Town:
toblerone187 - Top Town read
ConnorJC
Lovesick

(Strong) Town Lean:
Superhans

Null:
TheDominator37
FancyPants

Scum Lean:
Nachomamma8

Scum:
Rautherdir

VOTE: Rautherdir

So you think Rautherdir is faking his softclaim?

[ConnorJC]

I don't see you pushing so hard on TheDom as a lurker if he was your scum partner.

Why am I scum if TheDom is town?

I find you more likely than LQ at that point, especially because you've been tunneling TheDom so hard for awhile now.

[ConnorJC]

Nacho is not tunneling anyone.

You sure about that one?

You're not wrong that I'm tunneling and you're not wrong that I'm trying to convince others to vote you, but I fail to see why doing either of those things is scummy as opposed to just playing the game.

[ConnorJC]

Nacho is not tunneling anyone.

You sure about that one?

You're not wrong that I'm tunneling and you're not wrong that I'm trying to convince others to vote you, but I fail to see why doing either of those things is scummy as opposed to just playing the game.

Interesting, so Thor665 has a different definition of tunneling than NachoMamma8 does.

Hmm.. Interesting indeed.

P-Edit: I take it you know Thor's position, but didn't comment on that definition.

This is really quite interesting stuff here.

For us new players what is Thor's definition?

[ConnorJC]

Well, actually, let me rephrase that.

To the best of my knowledge, you agree with the reasons why I find Dom scummy. There has not been something that I've pointed out that seems off-base or ridiculous.
On the other hand, you find LQ's read on Dom to be weird enough to the point where you don't understand it.

However, if Dom flips town, you think that the approach you understand is scummy as opposed to the one you think is nonsense.
That's what I want to understand.

I'm not sure how to describe it, call it more of a gut feeling if you want.
If you're so sure TheDom is scum then why are you preparing for if it isn't.

[ConnorJC]

VOTE: FancyPants

Brah, naked vote.

[ConnorJC]

@Lovesick, you're holding players to vastly different standards (On mobile right now, will post a more detailed explanation when at a computer). Also, as usual, you go straight for the self-defense.

[ConnorJC]

Ok, here I go! A bunch of posts analyzing LoveSick's reads incoming.

@Lovesick, you're holding players to vastly different standards (On mobile right now, will post a more detailed explanation when at a computer). Also, as usual, you go straight for the self-defense.

Don't think there's an excuse for being on mobile unless you are out of the house (all my posts have be written on my phone)

Also the reason for me holding players on different standards is because of their situations. Dominator and Fancy came late into the game, Toblerone and Rautherdir are new but are showing genuine progress, Nacho and LQ are in the worlds of their own along with you and whilst I believe Superhans is also new, his behaviour has been nothing but scum like to me. I don't understand how I'm being defensive as I think I'm more or less pointing out the obvious whilst also acting all on frustration of him discrediting me throughout that post, constantly telling me to hurry up (despite me already showing acknowledgement to his requests and telling him that I will post them as I've finished them), unnecessarily trying to convince other players to also pressure me for "trying to weasel my way out" even though i had already promised to post my reads.

I like quoting stuff, which I really don't have the time to deal with on mobile. TheDom came into the game late on purpose. Also, you're being defensive because your vote was aimed at Superhans because he was attacking you, when there's plenty of other scum on your list.

[ConnorJC]

ConnorJc - He started confidentally with an opening post where he immediately went to pressure LQ. I personally concluded to two scenarios, either ConnorJC overreacted and jumped the gun; using his own overreaction to pressure LQ or he was looking for a flaw instantly to then be able to nitpick on. This made it difficult for me to actually have any thoughts on him at the start. However throughout the next few posts he is helping some players and explaining things which leaned him to be town as I find it that if he were to scum (Also not being IC) he could've used their cluelessness as an advantage however he hadn't. However much later he is constantly asking for reads after providing minimal ones himself, this behaviour is followed by him acting like a puppy and following Nacho and LQ switching back and forth between the two. This pushed him more towards scum as that behaviour can be seen as a play of him trying to hide under their radar by playing a puppet. During this behaviour, Connor actually posted minimal amounts of contents with his replies consisting of 1 or 2 sentences. He ended up changing this to lengthy and detailed posts however recently he has relapsed into the short responses. As a matter of fact Connor has yet to post a proper reads list as his last one consisted of 3/4 people.

TL;DR he's switching between minimality and detail, followed LQ and Nacho around, hasnt posted proper reads.

Starting to lean towards Scum

The hypocrisy in this is amazing. You've barely posted reads this game and also flip flop between short and long posts (And how is that even scummy?). Plenty of people haven't posted a reads list since the Rautherdir/TheDom/FP stuff, but you go after only me?

Also, I'll admit I was sheeping nacho/LQ at the beginning of the game, but after I realized I was doing that it stopped. Please look at my recent posts for examples.

[ConnorJC]

Rautherdir - As allegedly a newbie, he presented himself quite well at the start, posting minimal content; increasing getting longer and better. Rautherdir actually tried to participate the best he can at the start - making little notes to himself in his own posts and sometimes even wording his posts as if he were speaking to himself. His reads (Both times) were very minimal with either a piece of commentary or a short observation such as "You've been doing a good job so far" which doesn't help us at all as Rauth doesn't go into proper detail which makes it difficult to understand what he sees about the player's style which is good or what about it makes them town. However when I questioned about bandwagons, instead of Rauth creating his own reasons/opinions or even taking pieces of reasons from another player, he blatantly said that it was because of what Nacho had said. This to me seems as though Nacho has influence over Rauth and his actions. Potential scum team or noob move.

TL;DR good start, notes in his posts, minimal/almost useless reads, following Nacho like a pup (PST).

Null, need more lengthy/detailed content from him with proper reads.

You're ignoring his soft PR claim, which is possibly the most important play he's made this game. Why is Rauth agreeing with Nacho make him scum? Are you saying Rauth-Nacho are a scumteam?

[ConnorJC]

Nachomamma8 - Had a strong start with almost instantly jumping onto pressuring players whilst also explaining things to the newer players, Nothing wrong it so far. However I do find early lynches to pressure players as bad sportsmanship especially if the player hasn't posted anything at all. Throughout the game Nacho is interacting with everyone, whether it is to pressure or question them about things - responses varying from long to medium. However right from the start LQ and Nacho start clashing because of their different styles of play, almost bickering within each response as they continue to disgree with each other this happens so frequently (With Connor hopping in between them) that it makes me think that it's planned? They're trying to draw a line between themselves so hard that this is either SvS or TvT as it seems too consistent. However I found another link between Nacho and Toblerone187 as Nacho makes very little conversation with him despite his engaging and active playstyle (Trying to be as separate as possible?) there's no reason for their avoidant behaviour of eachother unless they genuinely have nothing to question about eachothers' posts as much as SuperHans or even Nacho himself feel the need to.

TL;DR encouraged players to pressure and vote eachother, always posts content, suspicion on his and LQ's frequent disagreeing with eachother, suspicion on him avoiding toblerone's posts more so than other players'

Despite my suspicions, i feel as though he is town because there are simply too many links between him and other players (Something which in my experience, Scum avoid linking themselves to players)

Why can't the Nacho-LQ fight be SvT? What about Nacho tunneling TheDom?

Also, why is encouraging voting towny? Scum's entire goal is to convince town to vote town.

[ConnorJC]

LicketyQuickety - Right from the start he makes it obvious that his playstyle and judgement on players' is more outside the box and unique from the traditional ways or variations of so. Throughout the game, he posts his opinion of players or rather what he thinks their alignment is - as if constantly upgrading his read list. His playstyle almost being the exact opposite of Nacho's where he keeps his posts minimal but at the same time posting content by addressing usually more than one person in his posts; forcing them to post more content and defnd themselves in doing so. Right from the start, he seens to have a scum feel about SuperHans and seems to not like his playstyle or his actions; small commentary/remarks about Hans' posts with things such as 'Scum Post' (PST). Expressing his own thoughts in the simplest ways without much explanation behind them. Once again with the same point I made in Nacho's read, when him and LicketyQuickety were arguing (Over Rautherdir) this could've been an instinctive ploy into drawing the line between the two even thicker and deeper, dissociating themselves with each other however with my town read on Nacho, this is only a speculation if Nacho does turn out to be scum

TL;DR Playstyle unique, opposite to Nacho (PST), strong tension and disagreement with Superhans, interesting way of posting.

Null, I think it's more dependent on if Nacho turns out to be scum or not. Along with LicketyQuickety being quite hard to read duI e to the lack of emotion in his responses.

I mostly agree here, but I'm actually reading LQ town because of how dedicated he has been to scumhunting.

[ConnorJC]

SuperHans - Started off as very passive and friendly however his playstyle being very silly - to say the least. After a while the silliness turns into flakiness where he is voting and unvoting frequently and giving up on leads after shortlived attempts of pursuing them. From the start SuperHans is seen questioning players frequenty and trying to interact with a lot of them at once, this is great as it is a display of how SuperHans felt then compared to now especially with players however this can also be seen as him just being distrustful towards his peers in the game and questioning them frequently to try and understand their motives. Talking about behaviour and playstyle, this changes for SuperHans drastically as he went from a passive, friendly player to a quite aggressive, irritable player. This is evident in his and Lickety's behaviour towards eachother within frequent posts. There is a questionable lynch which was made on Rautherdir however what was more questionable was the unvote to it. Rautherdir simply said "im not scum" to which Superhans replied with an unvote and just "K", this is followed up by SuperHans saying he is confused about what alignment Rautherdir is (Displayal of indecisiveness in his own actions) as if you have a lead on someone and you get confused about their alignment; why let them get away by unvoting? I feel as though his indecisiveness is definitely starting to rise my suspicion up and should rise the suspicion of other players up.

TL;DR Playstyle changed drastically, comments on flakiness, observation of distrust towards others (?), indecisiveness.

Definitely leaning scum, want a proper read list from him..

Who's sheeping people now?
Why is being distrustful a scum thing? I'd argue that's a town tell, not a scum tell.

Why do you seem to think changes in player's styles makes them scum?

[ConnorJC]

Toblerone187 - A lot of fluff from the start which might show confusion (Plead for guidance?) as his posts do not server a purpose other than to be a conversation start such as the joke votes right at the start. It feels as though he really starts to try and make posts with content which can be contributive, Eg. His very early (somewhat) reads list; making observatory posts which can used as references for him later in the game. His interactions are mostly with FancyPants, however I feel no link betwen these two due to Toblerone's disapproval of Fancy's actions early and throughout the game. His disagreement to it is very.. neutral? He doesn't seem to completely disregard and disagree with what FancyPants has to say and even takes some of his points in consideration which seems to me like he's learning from FancyPants. However his interaction with SuperHans has seemed to shy Toblerone away from posting his own thoughts and opinions (Specifically about players) which I honestly would like to see a bit more of.

TL;DR Fluff from start, genuinely tried to get into the conversations and participate, no link with other players other than Fancy, seems to be taking this game as a learning session

If he is as genuine as my observations have made him be then I think he's 100% town. However I want him to posts reads listing everything he thinks but his conclusions only being based on things which definitely swing the players into an alignment.

Previously you said links were town, now you think a player with no links is town? Also, you complain about other players (Ex. me) not posting readlists, but it's ok for toblerone to be mostly fluff?

[ConnorJC]

FancyPants - I suppose somehow ironically in terms of posts and their content FancyPants is very much like Toblerone with frequent opinions and thoughts on others being in his posts. Gradually making up as a reads list if you take the information from his posts on other players. His interactions with players seem to be evenly spread across, paying attention to what is being said and pursuing players who he finds are being quite "dodgy". However there isn't much more than that to him I'm afraid as he hasn't made any links with any players in particular nor acted in a questionable way.

TL;DR Being informative, need more.

Null however if he provides more posts with more content than im more than willing to redo this read.

Mostly agree here, just posting so that it doesn't look like this was missed.

[ConnorJC]

However continuing on from that awkward misclick.

To make up for it's absence and eventually redeem it? The only link i can find is LQ when it comes to Dominator however I think this link was unintentional as it was a mutual agreement on a disagreement of Nacho's views and points.

TL;DR some complex speculation with a link with no leads.

Null, waiting on more content from it

Again, no "links" isn't scummy? So TheDom agrees with another player (LQ) but you aren't complaining it's sheeping?

[ConnorJC]

UNVOTE:

You weren't voting anyone?

[ConnorJC]

UNVOTE:

You weren't voting anyone?

I was unvoting Lovesick.

When did you vote Lovesick?

He didn't.

[ConnorJC]

Oh, toblerone already pointed that out?
This is what I get for commenting before reading everything.

[ConnorJC]

I'll be posting a full reads list soon, but I want to see toblerone's list first.
Be warned, while I have some town reads I'm certain of, I am very unsure who the scum are.

[ConnorJC]

gonna post more in a minute

Guess we're not getting that more

[ConnorJC]

I'll be posting a full reads list soon, but I want to see toblerone's list first.

Why?

It will likely influence my read on you, which I'm really on the fence about.

[ConnorJC]

@LQ, what happened between #1050 and #1065 that caused you to switch from suspicion to a town read on LoveSick? Just think she had to much pressure?

[ConnorJC]

@Lovesick, why are you ignoring all my analysis of your reads?

[ConnorJC]

Also, Lovesick, why are you so fascinated with "links" (Thanks for reminding me of this superhans)?

[ConnorJC]

I'll be posting a full reads list soon, but I want to see toblerone's list first.

Why?

It will likely influence my read on you, which I'm really on the fence about.

Ok so that is your read on me but how would my reads influence your reads on everyone else? You don't have to wait for mine to give yours. And as I still feel like shit you may be waiting a while for mine

You may point out stuff I missed/forgot about players. If you're not feeling well no point in waiting to post my reads. Will ISO everyone and post my list in an hour or so.
Hopefully you feel better soon

[ConnorJC]

Why Rautherdir though? Unless we have a counterclaim shouldn't he be almost confirmed town?

[ConnorJC]

Why Rautherdir though? Unless we have a counterclaim shouldn't he be almost confirmed town?

Not necessarily. There might only be just Dom who what the only TPR in the game. That's why I want to see what/where Rautherdir was trying to tell the other PR something. Rautherdir clearly knows what crumbing is, so I want them to point out where they did that as well. It will be interesting to see if Fancy Pants comes out with a CC.

He also dropped hints that basically confined him to 2 PRs. That sounds like a terrible play to make as scum, especially when you have no info on the game (As both mafia would be goons).

Side note: Are you told if you are jailed/RB'd?

[ConnorJC]

Why Rautherdir though? Unless we have a counterclaim shouldn't he be almost confirmed town?

Not necessarily. There might only be just Dom who what the only TPR in the game. That's why I want to see what/where Rautherdir was trying to tell the other PR something. Rautherdir clearly knows what crumbing is, so I want them to point out where they did that as well. It will be interesting to see if Fancy Pants comes out with a CC.

He also dropped hints that basically confined him to 2 PRs. That sounds like a terrible play to make as scum, especially when you have no info on the game (As both mafia would be goons).

Side note: Are you told if you are jailed/RB'd?

Why are you asking this?

Nevermind it doesn't matter. I was going to say that if vanilla townies know about an RB we could try to figure out the setup. However, if that was the case scum simply wouldn't have RB'd anyone last night.

[ConnorJC]

If someone else is a PR (that isn't Rautherdir) they need to CC

today

, or town is likely lost.

[ConnorJC]

If someone else is a PR (that isn't Rautherdir) they need to CC

today

, or town is likely lost.

Side note: I mean this game day, not specifically this real-life day. Didn't realize it might be confusing until after I posted.