Newbie 1572 - Chicken Parmigiana Mafia (Over)

[Drixx]

Isn't it kind of obvious what reason a town player might choose to play the way zombiekitty has? I don't think I'm breaking any new ground with my thinking here.

And thanks ... I think. I have been intentionally working on varying my play and getting out of ruts I fell into while playing for years and years with the same smallish group of people.

[Seraphim]

Sorry, that was directed at numberQ. You have been town for a while for me because you have been WAY too earnest to be scum (take that as a good thing).

That reason is not obvious to me, so I would love to have it pointed out to me.

[davesaz]

Why the fuck is it Day 3 with only one person dead?

Anyway, I'll read this tomorrow or at the very worst this weekend. I'll get to it soon is what I'm saying.

Well I'm about halfway in and I'm pretty sure I know who the scum are already. I'll finish reading just to make sure I'm not wrong.

Just pointing out that I wouldn't be the first replacement who took a day or two to get caught up.

[numberQ]

So deadline is in three days and we've like what, three pages of posting? Come on, people. I only have one vote, this needs to be a TEAM effort.

numberQ: convince me of zombiekitty scum. ZK is definitely null for me, show me some aspect of the posting that I'm missing.

QFT, but I am going to add, convince me that you aren't.

So I'm supposed to convince you of... what, exactly? You've given no reasons for voting me other than you didn't like my post 526. What exactly did you not like about it? Are there any other reasons you're voting me? I can't refute what isn't there.

@Drixx:

Hmm I can see this being newb town play now since you said that; I'm assuming your reasoning there is that new players are less likely to be forthright with their thoughts for fear of being attacked? The problem, though, is I can equally see this being newb scum as well.

@Seraphim:

I never thought I'd see politics brought into Mafia. As we get closer to deadline I'm inclined to take you up on that offer, but like I said I don't want to lynch someone just to prevent a no lynch. I'd rather be at least somewhat comfortable in that person's scumminess, and so far I see DDD's slot as town or at least null. Is there any reason for this bandwagon other than that DDD's meta has him as usually more active?

[Drixx]

Consider what role a new town aligned player might have that would cause them to play timidly. It's basically the same reason a lot of newbie scum get caught, and it's not always a fully conscious action on their part.

[Seraphim]

I mean zombie isn't THAT new at this point.

[DeasVail]

Vote Count 3.06

davesaz (3)- Diego1487, Seraphim, zombiekitty
BRantz (2)- ForWhomTheJellyRolls, Drixx
numberQ (2)- davesaz, BRantz
zombiekitty (1)- numberQ

Not voting: No one!

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline

5th March, 7am AEDT. This is in (expired on 2015-03-04 16:00:00).

[davesaz]

BRantz catches up in 311 with a pretty complete set of reads. So far so good... Post 319 looks a little like some very careful role fishing. Nothing really blatant, but tossing out additional role possibilities to see if anyone responds.

In 386 he questions Diego's reads, but doesn't really say why he's pointing them out. Then in 391 goes on to vote.

Day 3, picks up where he left off voting Diego in 464. Then he goes through a couple of rapid switches, in 487 to Jelly and 528 to NumberQ. I read this as scum looking for a plausible wagon. In 542 he's implying that Ika should have been easy to see as town -- perhaps he left the ika wagon to set up this moment.

Finally in 551 he replies to Seraphim's "you're acting like scum caught for wrong reasons" with a "you don't know how to read me".

1. Jumping to Diego after implying something scummy about Diego's reads, but without ever really saying what.

2. During day 3, has been bouncing around looking for an acceptable wagon.

3. Some possible role fishing

4. Seraphim doesn't know how to read him, but I do and this doesn't seem very similar to Town Brantz from our previous games together.

Furthermore his slot is the D1 no-lynch target, which ties back pretty well. When I looked at the "letters" time period for that slot it looked pretty scummy too.

VOTE: BRantz

[davesaz]

Strong town: Seraphim, Drixx
Weak town: Diego, Jelly
Null / Weak Scum: zombieKitty, numberQ
Scum: BRantz

[BRantz]

Color me not surprised dave.

[BRantz]

All of your reasons to vote me have an awful lot of conjecture added to what actually happened. Seems like you really just wanted my play to fit your case and not the other way around.

[BRantz]

Also, wasn't the only game we were in together one where I was scum? Or were you in my first newbie on site too?

[davesaz]

Also, wasn't the only game we were in together one where I was scum? Or were you in my first newbie on site too?

I was thinking about the Newbie that I replaced into. Forgot you were also in the M9++ as scum.

[BRantz]

So point by point.

1. My read on Diego was a lot more than just he had a slightly scummy reads list. Here is the whole thing which dave seemed to "overlook":

Diego: Null-scum. 62 hits hard in a good way. 125 seems decent as well. I don't understand his confusion about bitmap feeling Pramitz was being appeasy with saying "Am I scum?" vs him saying no. Though he seems to be confused as to what bitmap was responding too in the first place in 109 and 132. Still a weird thing to harp on. 133 is good. and 135 is awesome. His reads list in 147 is somewhat suspect. Don't like his seeming insistence that lurking is a scum only thing, nor his argument about fluff posting. 199 is awful. Also very weird that bitmap goes from a strong townread, to a scum read without being mentioned at all in between, but bitmap had voted Diego in the interim, and his post change reasons are bad. I don't like the buddying in 236 much either. His train of thought starting with the "These are the lynchable people today" statement is completely awful, and ends with him saying that the town should lynch a town read of his. 287 feels like posturing to me.

2. So me voting 3 different people over the course of two weeks is "jumping around"? Diego became fairly obviously not scum today, so while reevaluating I put my vote on Jelly because I had a gut bad feeling about him. As soon as I saw something outright scummy from a player I changed my vote to numQ. Your whole point against me is conjecture anyway.

3. Are you talking about me refuting Diego's theories as possible role fishing? I actually laid out exactly why it was wrong as part of that argument.

4. This isn't even really a point against me as scum so I don't know why you included it in your case. My natural response is that you apparently don't actually know how to read me either.

[BRantz]

The more I think about it, the more I actually want to go here. I actually kind of liked numQ's response to me asking him to prove he isn't scum.

VOTE: davesaz

THIS IS L-1.

[davesaz]

Hey, I'm just replacing in here and pressing the best case I can see.

[davesaz]

Curious to know though, what's the case on my slot?

[BRantz]

My case is a lot based on what I see as your contrived case against me (I do admit this could be colored by OMGUS).

I will let Seraphim or someone else talk to you about what their case on DDD was specifically.

[Seraphim]

First, it's a gut meta tell for me. I've played with DDD before, usually he is WAY more aggressive and pushes shit hard.

Here, he seems to be coasting and is not really interested in finding scum. Not only is it uncharacteristic of his town game, I find it to be very untownlike behavior.

It's not a super strong case by golly but my gut feels this lynch very strongly.

[davesaz]

So point by point.

1. My read on Diego was a lot more than just he had a slightly scummy reads list. Here is the whole thing which dave seemed to "overlook":

Diego: Null-scum. 62 hits hard in a good way. 125 seems decent as well. I don't understand his confusion about bitmap feeling Pramitz was being appeasy with saying "Am I scum?" vs him saying no. Though he seems to be confused as to what bitmap was responding too in the first place in 109 and 132. Still a weird thing to harp on. 133 is good. and 135 is awesome. His reads list in 147 is somewhat suspect. Don't like his seeming insistence that lurking is a scum only thing, nor his argument about fluff posting. 199 is awful. Also very weird that bitmap goes from a strong townread, to a scum read without being mentioned at all in between, but bitmap had voted Diego in the interim, and his post change reasons are bad. I don't like the buddying in 236 much either. His train of thought starting with the "These are the lynchable people today" statement is completely awful, and ends with him saying that the town should lynch a town read of his. 287 feels like posturing to me.

But what changed between this post and 386/391 when you actually voted him? That's the point I was trying to make.

2. So me voting 3 different people over the course of two weeks is "jumping around"? Diego became fairly obviously not scum today, so while reevaluating I put my vote on Jelly because I had a gut bad feeling about him. As soon as I saw something outright scummy from a player I changed my vote to numQ. Your whole point against me is conjecture anyway.

Let's dig into this further. Are you saying that you thought numQ is outright scummy and Jelly is also giving off bad vibes. Is there any followup to those votes? I'm missing the push to a lynch which town should be generating. Is there something out there that I'm not seeing?

[davesaz]

First, it's a gut meta tell for me. I've played with DDD before, usually he is WAY more aggressive and pushes shit hard.

Here, he seems to be coasting and is not really interested in finding scum. Not only is it uncharacteristic of his town game, I find it to be very untownlike behavior.

It's not a super strong case by golly but my gut feels this lynch very strongly.

I've been there too. Sometimes my gut is right and occasionally it's wrong. Not much I can do about DDD's tenure. All I can do right now is work for town and see if that's enough to turn this around.

Can we talk about your other scum reads?

[Diego1487]

My case is a lot based on what I see as your contrived case against me (I do admit this could be colored by OMGUS).

Color me convinced.

VOTE: BRantz L-1

The more you post, the more scummy you get today.

I still feel that Dave's and Seraphim's slots are scummy, but I'm just about 100% on BRantz right now. I've got town on everyone else.

[DeasVail]

Replacing zombiekitty.

Deadline will be extended until 48 hours after a replacement is found.

[BRantz]

Lol Tell me why it is scummy that I see a contrived case, but admit there might be bias in my view diego? I'm all ears.

[BRantz]

If I get lynched, when I flip town I am going to laugh and laugh and laugh. This town's only hope is that there continues to be no night kills.