Open 633: Near Vanilla-GAME OVER

[OceanWind]

{Ollie, Killthestory, OceanWind, acryon, RadiantCowbells}
{MagnaofIllusion, Xisiqomelir, Bellaphant}
{Nosferatu}
{Lowell}
{Imperium, SnarkySnowman}

And there you have it.

Your reads on Imperium, SnarkySnowman, and RadiantCowbells are the reads I most want to see elaborated on.

[Imperium]

this isn't the game i post in when i'm drunk

And this is very much a scumclaim.

LOL

[Imperium]

I still think the tone of Severa's posts is town, they're wreckless. She's like an amalgamation of several posters I know who attract attention every game. & she's not even bothering to defend herself.

@SEVERA

we should see some of your previous games, doesn't matter if they're on a different site.

The rest of this post is about Lowell... At the beginning of the game he was gathering allies, started to do something with them, then just ducked out of the game... During this time, he didn't respond to a big post I mostly directed at him. 541 This is yet more evasion which he was doing earlier in the game, that kind of thing was why he fell into my scum leans.

Part of the reason for my preference for a SS lynch was to do with how sturdy the CoM wagon was throughout a large portion of day 1. Why is this an issue? Well if you draw a line in the sand early in the day & get your vote sorted then you can just coast along never having to change it. Safety in numbers too etc. I find it hard to believe there was no scum on that wagon with the way it played out. Lowell's vote was made really early on April 5th 157 & it stayed until the flip. His participation fell way off after that. & there was this which was never fleshed out or followed up on despite it being questioned, counting that as more evasion as well...

^^^ this is a scummy post

Futile gathering of allies. Parks vote. Evasion. Lowell's day 1. VOTE: Lowell

Lowell is a low poster, but I keep coming back to these posts here:

ABR, get in here and help me kill some newbs.

I'm also a little worried CoM might be scum. Which makes me sad. And that Killthestory might be town. Which makes me sadder.

I'm starting to see the Ollie case, if for no other reason than his growing frustration that no one else is voting for obvtown killthestory like he wants us to. And yes, Ollie, I do normally sheep ABR. Because it's fun. You got a problem?

I have new leader now, though, and his name is killthestory. Obvtown. VOTE: CoM I tend to think team CoM would be having a little more fun were they down. I'm getting a bit of the deflated-after-receiving-scum-role vibe from them. Which I feel is especially pronounced in hydras.

I don't see them as gathering allies. I do a similar thing to what he did at the beginning in which i look for people I enjoy working with.

His thing about thinking that CoM might be scum and it making him sad is something I felt too. It's a bummer when people you enjoy playing with turn out to be scum, and especially so when you know how much they dislike playing scum.

The feeling of getting a bit deflated after receiving scum role is one of the reasons we too were ready Church as scum.

It's not a smoking gun to make him town but it does give me pause on him being scum.

(Yes, OW I get this is pretty much along the same reasons you were town reading Lowell yesterday and I gave you a hard time for it!)

[Imperium]

Ollie's vote on me is opportunistic and terrible. It's my experience that the first person to point out "Lowell has been dodging, let's get him" in invariably scum. THIS LOW-HANGING FRUIT FIGHTS BACK!

VOTE: Ollie. This is both OMGUS and correct.

strong townreads from huer and snarky. ocean wishes he gave off town-reads, but he doesn't. Mostly just try-hard reads. He could go either way.

Are you saying you're strong town reading snarky and alone? Why?

[acryon]

To be honest I am having trouble with this catch up. Lots of ego and lots of walling. Ranger looks town. RC feels town. Lowell feels town. KTS doesn't deserve to keep playing the way he's playing without being scumread.

VOTE: Killthestory

[Imperium]

I have comments!
Your case sucks and you should feel bad.
You don't think that I would have fucking realized how bad today would look after I jumped ship to a town lynch?
I voted CoM because I thought they were scum and I wanted to throw Tammy a bone because she was super invested in her read.
At least I've been reminded that my MO of never being nice and always being a stubborn bastard is the correct way of playing as either alignment.
Just stop.

Just so you know you're not allowed to use this self-meta to exonerate yourself while positing we could be scum knowing how bad we would look if Snarky flips scum.

You don't get to expect me to have great insight into your scum meta and then actually toss out wrong/scum as something serious when yesterday is nothing like how I play as scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm taking 0 stances besides SS scum until SS is lynched.

[Imperium]

Oh i should have finished reading Post 1033

[Imperium]

is it bad that i agree with scum!Severa that MoI is pretty fucking terrible?

@EVERYONE,

while it may not effect entirely my posting style, i fucked my thumb up really badly. like really badly. i think i dislocated it, and ill probably have to see a doctor soon, but for right now i think its dislocated and still untreated. therefore, my posts will probably be even briefer than before.

You should take a picture of it for proof. Preferably in front of any mafia pts you may be a part of and post it here.

Seriously though, hope it's okay!

[MagnaofIllusion]

Back from V/LA –

I’m not sure why everyone would have a Town read on Kill’s slot. 1041 is a perfect example of what I was talking about and the pages 43-44 ego-measuring exchange with Radiant is nothing but noise and blather. He’s just cruising by. Mostly curious why Radiant isn’t paying attention though. Especially 1067 which reads as “Crap … do I jump off and or stick to my guns on this read” upon realizing it is Radiant behind the mask which is a scum thought process if Radiant is Town.

Also I am reminded that yesterday nacho thought that severa outing her alt to us looked townish.

Nacho needs to explain why outing an alt is Townish because I see it as completely devoid of any alignment connotations. Either Radaint scum or Radiant Town was not being listened to and coming under fire today led to the reveal which is survivalist (also not alignment indicative). So I’d like to grok the logic behind that Town read.

But. Ranger would have no idea what Magna's scum game or town game looked like. He's been gone since 2012 and just came back. He doesn't have a finished game to his name since Ranger has been around.

Yeah, this. Ranger would, of course, certainly know I’m not her partner and thus be happy to throw so “Oh, I can read MoI” into the mix.

I'm starting my readthrough now, but I think Drunk RC is town and I think that if he's calling SS a scummy scumperson, SnarkySnowman was probably a scummy scumperson.

Willing to just accept on a single post Radiant’s word without reading the thread at all. Scum-tastic.

So Ranger – how many times as Radiant scum fooled you? Just curious.

I know, according to the wiki, that means I'm one scumread short. It also means I'm townreading one player I shouldn't be. That's what the remaining 12 pages are hopefully for.

This is very forced. Pre-explaining why she doesn’t have the requisite number of scum in her reads-list is the kind of posting scum think to make in advance.

Well on the one hand.

Pretty sure this confirms me as town.

I’d really like to see any explanation for this. Really … all ears.

[heuristically_alone]

I guess it's my bad. If you already replaced then I guess it's my fault. Haha darn it. Peace out bros.

[Imperium]

Because I'm 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt certain that Snarky is scum and the same is not true of CoM.
Why weren't you this energetic in 1672 huh?

Ehh, I could be persuaded.

Magna - This is what Nacho was referencing. I played with RC in newbie 1672 a couple months ago. He outed himself to me here, which Nacho thought was townish.

I don't agree with the practice as I think if you're going to play as an alt, you should play as an alt either secret to everyone or public to everyone and not out meta knowledge you wouldn't know.

But, outing that to me did let us know who he was right off the bat and therefore we had knowledge of his play style we wouldn't have otherwise. Nacho will probably explain this better though.

[Imperium]

RC, also wouldn't mind if you could remind me why you think Snarky is scun.

RC?

[RadiantCowbells]

I'll get to this in the evening.

There's a bunch more newly added to the case.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Magna - This is what Nacho was referencing. I played with RC in newbie 1672 a couple months ago. He outed himself to me here, which Nacho thought was townish.

I don't agree with the practice as I think if you're going to play as an alt, you should play as an alt either secret to everyone or public to everyone and not out meta knowledge you wouldn't know.

But, outing that to me did let us know who he was right off the bat and therefore we had knowledge of his play style we wouldn't have otherwise. Nacho will probably explain this better though.

See that I find scummy. It was pretty clear he was an alt early on. His comment on Klingon always scum reading him makes little sense when the slot has no posts not in this game. Hiding behind an alt (which Radiant has already claimed he was doing - look at his interaction with Ollie on that front) while selectively trying to communicate to certain players reads as wanting a play-style pass for behaviors from said subset of players to my mind is pandering - similar to what Lowell was knocked for in "gathering up allies".

I'd still like elaboration from Nacho.

[kelbris]

Bellaphant has requested to be repalced, also, Oceanwind is safe. VC will be coming momentarily.

[kelbris]

vote count 2.04

Bellaphant (0): none
Severa (3) [L-4]: Oceanwind, SnarkySnowman, killthestory

Jim Heuristically_Alone

Ranger (0): none

jmo16mla

SnarkySnowman (4) [L-3]: Severa, Imperium, Nosferatu, Ranger
MagnaofIllusion (0): none
Imperium (0): none
Killthestory (2): MagnaofIllusion, Acryon
Lowell (1): Ollie
Nosferatu (0): none
acryon (0): none
OceanWind (0): none
Ollie (1): Lowell
not voting: Bellaphant
With 12 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.
day 2 has begun, it will end in (expired on 2016-05-04 20:01:46)

[Ranger]

Ranger would have no idea what Magna's scum game or town game looked like. He's been gone since 2012 and just came back. He doesn't have a finished game to his name since Ranger has been around.

The key word you're looking for here is 'finished'. MagnaofIllusion just coming back is no reason for me to be unfamiliar with him when I'm replacing into and/or reading as many games as I am. This can easily be seen by how much I stalk the replacement request thread. (I've been sniped when trying to enter plenty.) Heck, you can ask RC; he's seen how many games I've replaced into recently.

Furthermore, the tell I have for MagnaofIllusion is not specific to him as a player; it's specific to his playstyle which a few other players have. My go-to example is Red Coyote. It's vaguely similar to Titus's playstyle, but with a slightly different overall approach. If MagnaofIllusion were scum, his play would resemble what Red Coyote did in Twin Peaks. His play here is nothing like that. There are multiple things which show it. Tonality, what he's focusing on, the type of arguments he is making, all of these are different between that style of play as town and as scum and it only took seeing it once for me to instantly recognize it.

But.

You know I can't answer this in detail, and would never bring it up as town knowing I can't answer it in detail. I'd get modkilled or at least force-replaced if I did.

We were on CoM's wagon before Magna was.

But you didn't start crazy-hard pushing them until SnarkySnowman was in danger.

And it was only at that point when you started crazy-hard pushing them (after MagnaofIllusion had joined the wagon) that MagnaofIllusion posted that very strong townread on you.

But you'd know all this if you were actually reading and not skimming and making fake ass reads lists.

I do admit there was some skimming involved, yes. If I have a read established on a player who is posting long walls, I skim for key words and then after reading the parts which look important, skip the rest. Games have a

lot

of fluff in them. Tammy's particular style of walling (and Nacho is not immune to it either) is particularly hard to parse, so if I missed details then my bad, I will retract my point whenever it's wrong, but I'm pretty sure I picked up on everything important you've said.

[Killthestory]

i will sheep my hero ranger

UNVOTE:

[Ranger]

Your reads on Imperium, SnarkySnowman, and RadiantCowbells are the reads I most want to see elaborated on.

RadiantCowbells is the simplest to explain. I am intimately familiar with how RadiantCowbells plays games as scum. I've seen his scum game five times (the sixth where he tied doesn't count because he was really a serial killer), and town game countless more times. There are certain patterns that he displays as scum which are absent from his town game, and none of those patterns are present. (Unlike MagnaofIllusion, this one I actually

can

go into detail about.)

His play is, obviously, never twice the same in regards to his scumplay. How he played scum in Fire and Ice was different from how he played scum in White Flag, in spite of both being on his alt, Viva la Vida. But there are overarching similarities. The tunneling is usually present, and hasn't been this game. His tone often comes across as flat even when he's saying he's ticked off at a player, but here he feels sincere. When Radiant is scum, he is setting up a long-term game plan, I have seen it multiple times, and yet here that behavior is absent.

When RC is scum, he may take unusual stances, but they come with an agenda: getting a strong player mislynched with gusto is practically a signature move. He's done it with both me and Titus among others. Here, his unusual stances come with a "I don't care" attitude. When he's scum, he'll put up false-bravado surrounding these, but it is exactly that: false. He never follows through and he shifts attention elsewhere when convenient. But here, his "I don't care" attitude is no act.

This is probably not as in-depth as you were looking for. I'm sorry. I suppose part of my ability to read him comes from his status as my favorite player. I enjoy playing with him more than any other player, and while I may not give him any sort of special treatment compared to other players, he still is easily sorted. I've seen him as town many times (I'd have to go through my wiki to count the exact number), probably a dozen or so if I counted them all, and while I haven't always been able to confidently place him in top-tier town, I can tell you of them I've had him as scum incorrectly a grand total of once...and after we interacted, I was able to see he was town and fixed my error.

[Ranger]

I'll give the others after reading the rest of the thread and attending to other duties.

’m not sure why everyone would have a Town read on Kill’s slot.

I will admit: the latter half of Killthestory's iso is weaker than the first half.

But the first half is undeniably town. He was seeing all the things I was seeing during that time period (well, for the most part), pushing them exactly as I would have if I was in the game during that time. (I'd have to iso him to list all the places I agree and all the places where I don't but still thought were reasonable, but from memory I can tell you basically everything in his early iso fits one of those two.)

While it's true, he hasn't been as, shall we say, aggressive as is typical of his town game, the way he acknowledged it felt town to me as well. I got the impression his "I don't really care" attitude was still present, just in a more laid-back, casual manner. When he

has

pushed, his pushes look like they're in that specific mind set, one of, essentially, "I'm not doing much, but this feels right, and I don't care what others think of it". Admittedly, I don't have too many games with Killthestory, like three or so town games and one scum game, but this simply...doesn't feel the same as what he did in Longnight.

Yeah, this.

I get that you don't like the idea of some random player being able to peg you, but...

I can peg you.

And you're not scum this game.

I'm even more sure of it now.

Willing to just accept on a single post Radiant’s word without reading the thread at all.

Wrong. I cannot explain why at this time, but RC's description of SnarkySnowman's behavior made me want to vote SnarkySnowman, for a

very

specific reason. As in, very, very, VERY specific reason. I wish I could tell you now. I probably will be able to tell you before this game's over, maybe not by the end of this game day but probably before this game would end, and when I can tell you I have every intention to because this was actually one of the reasons why I scumread SnarkySnowman in the first place and it's very frustrating that I can't tell you

why

yet.

So Ranger – how many times as Radiant scum fooled you? Just curious.

None. He's been scum in six of my games, but once was as a serial killer (which I don't really count), twice involved a 1v1 between him and another player with the other player having posted a scumslip-that-wasn't-actually-a-scumslip which made me not even look at him, the fourth time I was killed before I could read him (and I totally would have nailed him if not for having been nightkilled; I was a fresh replacement), and the remaining two I had him SOLIDLY nailed as scum.

I can read RC. I've never been wrong on him when he was town, either. (Well, unless you count the initial read in Space Invaders, but after a back-and-forth with him where we got a solid day's worth of interaction with one another, my read flipped.)

Pre-explaining why she doesn’t have the requisite number of scum in her reads-list is the kind of posting scum think to make in advance.

I don't follow.

I’d really like to see any explanation for this. Really … all ears.

Because if I was scum, I'd know who my scumteam had killed.

I thought Xisiqomelir's slot was alive the entire time I was reading D1. There wasn't a single hint to suggest he was dead. The OP listed ChurchOfMercy as lynched, but there was no nightkill listed. My name was edited into the OP, so I knew the OP had been edited recently, and assumed it was up-to-date. With only one person listed as dead, the assumption would therefore be there was no kill last night.

[Ranger]

If you want proof, this is, unedited, the OP as of this second:

Open 633: Near Vanilla

Player list:
* Bellaphant
*

SeshatX Severa

RadiantCowbells
*

KainTepes Jim Herustically_Alone

Ranger
*

jmo16mla

SnarkySnowman
* MagnaofIllusion
* Imperium-A hydra of Nacho and Tammy
* Killthestory
* ChurchOfMercy-hydra, Klingoncelt and Albert B Rampage
* Lowell
* Nosferatu
* acryon
* OceanWind
*

KTthecreeper

Xisiqomelir
* Ollie

Spoiler: living players 13/14

* Bellaphant
* Bellaphant
*

SeshatX Severa

RadiantCowbells
*

KainTepes Jim Heuristically_Alone

Ranger
* jmo16mla
* MagnaofIllusion
* Imperium
* Killthestory
* Lowell
* Nosferatu
* acryon
* OceanWind
*

KTthecreeper

SnarkySnowman
* Ollie

Spoiler: dead players

* ChurchOfMercy

Spoiler: mod killed players

none, let's keep it that way, shall we?

events

day 1 has begun, post #2
day 1 VC 1.01
day 1 VC 1.02
day 1 VC 1.03
day 1 VC 1.04
day 1 VC 1.05
day 1 VC 1.06
day 1 VC 1.07
day 1 VC 1.08
day 1 VC 1.09
day 1 VC 1.10
day 1 VC 1.11
day 1 VC 1.12
day 1 VC 1.13
day 1 VC 1.14
day 1 VC 1.15
[url=http://server6.kproxy.com/servlet/redir ... 2#p7856292]day 2 VC 2.01

I'm listed.
Xisiqomelir is not listed as dead.

[Imperium]

Ranger would have no idea what Magna's scum game or town game looked like. He's been gone since 2012 and just came back. He doesn't have a finished game to his name since Ranger has been around.

The key word you're looking for here is 'finished'. MagnaofIllusion just coming back is no reason for me to be unfamiliar with him when I'm replacing into and/or reading as many games as I am. This can easily be seen by how much I stalk the replacement request thread. (I've been sniped when trying to enter plenty.) Heck, you can ask RC; he's seen how many games I've replaced into recently.

Furthermore, the tell I have for MagnaofIllusion is not specific to him as a player; it's specific to his playstyle which a few other players have. My go-to example is Red Coyote. It's vaguely similar to Titus's playstyle, but with a slightly different overall approach. If MagnaofIllusion were scum, his play would resemble what Red Coyote did in Twin Peaks. His play here is nothing like that. There are multiple things which show it. Tonality, what he's focusing on, the type of arguments he is making, all of these are different between that style of play as town and as scum and it only took seeing it once for me to instantly recognize it.

But.

You know I can't answer this in detail, and would never bring it up as town knowing I can't answer it in detail. I'd get modkilled or at least force-replaced if I did.

I'm busy right now, but i want to shut this shit down.

You're acting obtuse and like you don't know why I brought that. It had nothing to do with your ongoing games.

You're acting like you're not a well-established player recreating herself under a new alt. Everyone knows who you are, and no matter how much you deny it when people point it out to you and your main, you keep making posts like this that betray the fact that you have been here for years.

Also you are scum. But you know that already.

[Ranger]

It had nothing to do with your ongoing games.

Except yes it does.

Because that's exactly what all MagnaofIllusion experience I have is.

[Killthestory]

lol at all these sudden scumreads