Open 575: Friends & Enemies-Together At Last (OVER)
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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In post 957, Malakittens wrote:In post 956, borkjerfkin wrote:considering there are no investigative roles in this game, I am utterly unmoved by naked votes at daystart, especially after a scumflip
Wisdom has been scummy all game.
How much have you read?
I'm mostly caught up, but I want to get both of your (you and riddle, since you're both so charged out of the gate) conceptions of the gamestate.beefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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In post 965, St Constantine the Hermit wrote:I hope this is an example to follow my wagons in the future. As policy, you should only start wagons on people off the wagon, the day immediately after lynching scum.
Acyron and Mathdino, one of which is confirmed scum, should be our first and foremost priorities.
VOTE: Acyon
This is pseudoscience as a general premise and is really vague as it pertains to this game. How are you getting a bucket of two with confirmed scum in it?beefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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In post 971, St Constantine the Hermit wrote:God told me in a vision.
Dude:
I read your ISO. It was fucking excruciatingly difficult to read, not only because you injected this kinda fluff all the time, but that you were kinda vague even when you weren't doing that.
Mind actually playing ball?beefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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In post 979, Malakittens wrote:Hey Bork,
The post above makes me really lean-dino town, do you agree?
I have a moderate townlean on Dino because of the way he engagedyoupre-Victor flip.
I actually have an even more solid townread on BMWS because of it, whose angle was to immediately scrutinize your reasons for hammering and your reads. Dino was a little more bombastic and less substantive, but they both kinda read like they didn't know what Vic's flip was gonna be.beefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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In post 986, Riddleton wrote:There have been a lot of suspicions about my slot yesterday regarding a mistake on my end regarding my Victor read.
I saw this, and I recall Mathdino being the one to push you on it, but if I also recall it required Vic to be town for it to make any sense, no?beefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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In post 984, Mathdino wrote:it NEVER happens for Victor.
armchair meta or did you rigorously research this?beefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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In post 999, Riddleton wrote:The mistake makes sense whether I'm town or scum.
The point is that it's not you being prescient of Vic's townflip, considering he didn't flip that.beefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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Sorry for posting so quickly, but my aim is to engage. I am used to faster paced games.
Constantine I really want explanations not only of why you guarantee 1+ scum off the wagon, but also why you've narrowed 'confirmed scum' (your words) to acryon/mathdino and not any of the others who weren't on the wagon EoDbeefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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In post 986, Riddleton wrote:I want a PL of myself
I guess my question to you is what's your angle here?beefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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Done with the fluff, sorry.
Anyway, I'm a pretty big fan of your #1012. I have some niggles about Wisdom, mostly due to posting around his 740 which seemed a bit off to me compared to his earlier posting about the Vic slot and a defense that amounted to attacking others for ostensibly not considering that "Vic might be town and they're just wrong?" I'm actually having a really hard time following Wisdom's line of thought on this.
Wisdom, wouldn't mind you chiming in yourself how you got to 740 and beyond from early game Vic interactions.
It's really difficult to know since I've not really been super diligent in checking timestamps, but Wisdom seemed pretty eager to save that slot by counterwagoning other slots around it, and I think it was pretty up in the air until Mala nailed Vic at the end with regard to who was actually going to be lynched.
You're townreading Wisdom - would be interested in your expounding on the 'reads town in general' comment.
p-edit: all @Mathdinobeefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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In post 1015, Riddleton wrote:What are your thoughts?
That I think it's pretty obvious that any attack on you that starts with the premise 'Riddleton is scum cause he knows Vic is town' is inapplicable to the gamestate as it stands.
Ergo I am confused why you're still worried about it.beefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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In post 1014, Newbie wrote:Also, I love how I'm accused of bussing my someone that was so adamant to let VD speak earlier but ended up "accidentally" hammering him and going oh well afterwards.
Wasn't your position yesterday that you thought Mala was more likely scum if Vic had flipped town?
If not, what are you trying to say here?beefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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In post 1015, Riddleton wrote:Paranoia wins games for scum.
More to the point: mislynching town wins games for scum; if you're town, that pretty obviously heads the game down that path. Why are you downplaying that?beefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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In post 1023, Newbie wrote:I'm saying the way she hammered looked more like bussing than my vote supposedly did. That's all.
What is your read on mala?beefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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In post 1026, Riddleton wrote:The mistake is still valid for Riddleton-scum; I make a contrived case for my newbie partner to bus him and swim in the towncred after. As scum, I don't really need to scumhunt that much, so all cases, ISOs and meta will be less in-depth and researched. Hence why I could have easily slipped and made a contradiction regarding my push on Victor.
May let the thread breathe a bit after this just cause that seems the kind of crowd we have, but you're moving from specifics to generalities (I don't give a shit what could have happened; I care about whatdid) and on top of that campaigning that we lynch your ostenisbly town-slot instead of doing the natural town thing which is to scumhunt and hope people see your thought process as germane and genuine.
I don't get it.beefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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In post 1111, Mathdino wrote:If they both agree to it, I'd be up for lynching Wisdom and Mala in succession if the first lynch flips town or claims mason; their meta record of correctly reading each other is pretty undeniable. Just need Mala to convince me this isn't TvT.
Pagingblindmewithscience,borkjerfkin, andacryonfor their thoughts on this after Mala posts.
Phoneposting from kids birthday party, but:
I want to know your criteria for this definitely (or likely) being TvS for you such that you want to avoid the normal breadth first approach that normally leads to a healthier gamestate.beefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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In post 1145, Newbie wrote:I totally agree. There's valid reasons that can be made about Malakittens and Victor being a scum team. Only a Newbie/Victor scum team is possible, though.
With that said, I don't like the way that you and acryon avoided the VD lynch, even going as far as to throw out counter lynches.
I cringe every time you post something like this while ostensibly supporting a mala town read. I don't get your trajectory on her or why you keep bringing this up.beefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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In post 1146, Wisdom wrote:The VD lynch sucked, nobody who was voting him ever gave any good reason for voting Victor. I hated it and wanted actual scum lynched.
This pings me a little because it's a pretty hyperbolic/sensationalist take on what actually happened (the 'sucky' lynch that flipped scum vs the 'actual scum' that is both unflipped and, as far as I can tell, you're not actually pushing anymore)beefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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In post 1144, St Constantine the Hermit wrote:Wisdom is 100% town. Stop.
Or try to lynch him. You'll see how much resistance you get.
Gamestate seems to be blowing that direction right now -- so if you have an actual pertinent point on that front (and these are few and far between in your ISO at large) now might be the time to make itbeefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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In post 1153, Wisdom wrote:@bork I'm explaining my yesterday behavior, not my current one.
I gathered that, it's just that even so, the verbiage you used is not the take I would have on the situation given what I know now, were I in your shoes.
This might be a dead-end point; I don't know that I can say this is alignment relevant.beefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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I can see that conclusion being arrived at due to the way the wagons were at the end of the day, but I also feel like that should temper any Mala scumread you have considering
1) I don't think it was a sure thing Vic was going through
2) I don't really think Mala was desperate for towncred at that point in the game
These are really the only reasons I think scum Mala might have hammered Vic and none of them really jibe with where I felt the game was on my readthrough.beefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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In post 1226, Mathdino wrote:borkjerfkin, please explain Constantine vote. Still pretty convinced on Riddleton being scum and Constantine/Riddleton not being a pair.
He's:
1) provided pretty much no defensible arguments on anything he's done the entire game
2) is pushing vanity wagons today and is refusing to explain anything besides 'HUR SCUM DON'T BUS DUR'
3) in fact, has pretty much directly ignored multiple requests by me to explain himself
I'm still trying to figure out how I feel about Riddleton. He's not on my 'do not lynch' list.
Mathdino wrote:BMWS, acryon, borkjerfkin, wgeurts, would like discussion on this.
I'll get up to speed on itbeefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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In post 1035, Mathdino wrote:Also, I just realised: His 'scumslip' that I pointed out earlier? Well, it ONLY works if Victor is town. Since Victor flipped scum, it confirms that Riddleton just made a normal mistake there.
So why is Riddleton so hung up on it? Answer: He's advocating for a PL of himself because he knows that'll never happen, and it gives him towncred to talk about his own lynch.
So yes, I literally brought up this exact point (1018) and it does point to a heightened sense of how he appears in everyone's eyes, but is otherwise just plain illogical and therefore I am having a hard time saying that it isn't just null. Savvy town or scum would realize that this 'slip' was bunk after Vic's flip and would have ignored it - I think non-savvy players from either faction might do what Riddleton did.beefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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In post 1035, Mathdino wrote:Here is one of his scumgames he replaced into. His partners are Anatole and chaoslord. He starts off distancing his partner but then voting another 'scumread'. His first signature case was on acryon, but a lot of that is because of Riddleton's (also signature) hatred for NKA. His first post with both his scumpartners referenced. Scumreads one of them, sorta townreads the other. Then he outright makes a case against both his scumpartners and proceeds to powerbus the 2 of them, saying they're scumpartners, and flipping back and forth between voting them but being adamant that one of them gets lynched.
Possibly what I found weirdest about Riddleton's entrance is that he professed scumreads on both Vic and Mala, then proceeded to make a huge case on Vic and utterly ignore Mala.beefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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In post 1233, Wisdom wrote:non-savvy
Wisdom wrote:You have to be dumb
Or to be nicer, it's just sloppy play from either alignment. I don't think town have a monopoly on being sloppy.
I don't get how talking about it makes him town.beefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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In post 977, Mathdino wrote:If Wguerts is scum I can see Silverwolf being scum with him for 135.Aha, okay. In one of his games he did exactly this. "If [townplayer] is scum, I can see [my scumbuddy] being scum with him." Not making me feel more comfortable about Riddleton.
This is a gem of a point. This has no scum trajectory if he's talking about two town players, but does if his plan was to lynch wgeurts to get to his buddy, who he could easily back off of when the flip went the wrong way.beefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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In post 1038, Mathdino wrote:But here's the problem. I think one of {Constantine, Riddleton} is scum. Why would Wisdom distract us from a wagon on Victor, with a wagon on another scumbuddy? The move just doesn't add up. I'm only comfortable seeing him as scum if Constantine and Riddleton are both town.
Therefore, if I had to call the scumteam, it'd be one of {Constantine, Riddleton, Wisdom}, and one of {NM, Newbie, maaaaybe Finn/bork}.
Just realize that no matter what the alignment combo of Constantine/Riddleton actually is, that what Wisdom was doing was angling a wagon away from someone who is now confirmed scum.
I realize that doesn't necessarily make him scum, but you can't go and say that this in any way had definite negative repercussions for the scumteam, considering Vic's flip.beefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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In post 1269, Not_Mafia wrote:I doubt Riddleton is scum, I don't recall him taking any opportunity to hop off Victor. Day 1 lynches are bad for scum even if they hard bus as the "why aren't you dead? " question willl bite them in the arse eventually
If he's scum he was committed to that bus from the moment he replaced in, so I don't think that was gonna happen here.beefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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In post 1280, Riddleton wrote:To all the 'savvy' players out there, would you consider reading the game and/or checking my iso? See #1076... I said there it's possible for scum-Riddle to have made a contradiction when trying to compile an erranous case on his partner.
I don't understand how people are so willing to conaider the issue resolved... it isn't.
I'll say it again, I do not fucking understand the motivation for trying to get yourself lynched due to ostensible latent paranoia that onlyyou yourselfare purporting is affecting the game, because that is exactly what it seems you're trying to do.beefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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In post 1210, Not_Mafia wrote:Reading back my post on Wisdom sucked, he's still scum though, and if you read back d1 twilight it should be obvious why
Does this not rely on your own interpretation of Wisdom's interpretation of the gamestate since you're not reacting to anything he said post-hammer?beefycheese-
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In post 1291, St Constantine the Hermit wrote:I wont stand by as others try to lynch riddleton. It is such an idiotic lynch, it's unbelievable. Actually, I'm pretty sure 90% of the players are complete newbs at this game, and it is absolutely dreadful having this become a mathdino dominated game. I do concede that I don't know this sites meta, but I know mafia in general. The silliness of everyone's argument and gameplay is astounding, and I'm baffled at these peoples ineptitude at recognizing scum.
shut upbeefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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In post 1287, Wisdom wrote:In post 1277, wgeurts wrote:I'll also explain Mala more, I'm thinking Mala and not-mafia as the scum team now.
Don't think so. They voted me together, they defend each other.. it would be ridiculous if a scumteam was so obvious.
This post fucking sucksbeefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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In post 1299, St Constantine the Hermit wrote:@Borkjerkin - Friendly advice, watch it. Being a jackass may be cool in some circles, but not this one.
No, if your response to people telling you you're wrong is 'you guys suck at this', you're the one who needs the attitude adjustment.beefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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In post 1304, St Constantine the Hermit wrote:I'm being very quiet
I like this plan; I'm excited to be a part of it; Let's do it!beefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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In post 1322, Mathdino wrote:I don't care anymore, and I don't care if this is what'll make me scummy in the future. I want him out of the game.
Seriously, ignore him.beefycheese-
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In post 1326, wgeurts wrote:I'll make my case against Mala/Wisdom/NM once I've finished all general reads.
Plz don'tbeefycheese-
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In post 1333, St Constantine the Hermit wrote:VOTE: Riddleton
Sorry mate, this is just going to be to good to pass up.
I can't wait for the town results
Dude just quit it pleasebeefycheese-
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In post 1328, Mathdino wrote:Edit: Actually I forgot to comment, I actually like and agree with 1287, it's something I would've said as well...
maybe we're all just white boys that can't dance this time around thenbeefycheese-
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In post 1349, Riddleton wrote:It's probably a scum reaction, bork.
why is scum more prone to overreaction than town?beefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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In post 1366, Newbie wrote:(Only reason I unvoted you day one was because of a misunderstanding that I'm not willing to talk about right now)
But one that is apparently no longer in play since you're willing to vote him again?beefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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@acryon - I'll consider what you said as now that my knee-jerk reaction has faded, but you're right in that what he's been doing is not exactly talking the talk with the amount of experience he claims to have, unless it's on some site that really does have that kind of meta and that's a dead end.
I'd prefer not to derail what's currently going on, though.beefycheese