Open 595: Elemental Mafia (Town Wins!)

[TheReverend]

It's REVEREND TIME!!!

Well actually it will be after I've slept.

Sup farside. It's DOMO. Fill me in. Who's scummy?

[TheReverend]

Ok let's get started.

p1, nothing interesting. Lane's #23 is odd, lane could be SK.

p2, ok choof is hating on RVS, suggesting it's detrimental to scumhunting. This kinda feels awkward, like maybe someone who has got caught in RVS bvefore.

I would probably say it's general uselessness? Or they're wondering why I said poetically when I meant probably? Along with there being nothing else to like or dislike. You gotta start somewhere.

Ok so I was thinking #23 was bad, but because it feels like forced innocence relating to the SK. #23 didn't ping to me because of uselessness, nor was it because of a typo, it was because it comes across to me as feigning ignorance relating to setup.

lane is already my top pick for SK. If he's not SK, the prob town because unlikely scum would say stuff like that since scum would not want the town to think he's SK.

I'm curious guys - is playing by gut advisable, or is that more an early game tactic? That's not to say I've got anything yet, but I do so love throwing my hat in the ring!

This feels extremely scum motivated. I don't care how I play when I'm town, but when I'm scum, I try to play to my town meta, or if I'm unknown, then I'll try to keep as many people on my side as possible. Here conman seems to be making efforts to pacify the village, almost like he asking permission to throw his bad gut reads out there. Not town motivated at all.

#44 conman says lane's comment is "innocuous", while making excuses for slow reads. He also waffles a lot.

farside looks good so far, she's the only person in the game I know.

flubbernugget's #47 doesn't feel very natural, actually feels somewhat opportunistic.

you and I are scum partners, thought we already established in the quicktopic

Why would anyone post this? Either as scum or town? Please don't do this. If this wasn't 12 pages ago I'd vote you for it.

We should move on scumhunting, shall we? This RVS is getting nowhere.

This is odd. RVS has long finished by now.

Post 23 is a pointless thread to go with and post 51 abd the quote in that post is literally just.... meh...

This doesn't make sense. Just to be clear, is English your first language?

Ok that's up to p3, I've got other stuff to do today as well so I'll be back for more in a couple of hours.

Tentaive gut reads so far... conman and flubbernugget for scum, lane for SK, farside for town.

[TheReverend]

So onto p4

Lots of talk about RVS, and the typo vote. What does that vote matter? It was obviously an RVS vote, and it doesn't matter if he thinks it counts or not. Flubbernugget is complaining that it's not scumhunting, but who the hell is scumhunting in RVS? People are either hoping to stir some action, or settling in with jokey posts, or just sitting back and waiting. Whatever. Everyone does RVS differently. Sometimes scum make mistakes, but usually it's just an elabortae hello fest before the real fun begins.

Flubbernugget being so fixated on this is strange. I also can't see him being scum with conman based on p4. There's certainly a different tone between the two. Flubbernugget is aggressive as hell, almost without a care. Conman is in the thick of it but seems to be more eager to keep things friendly. Like this...

Whoops, that comes across as if I'm telling you how the game works. That's my interpretation of the purpose of RVS.

pedit - lol interesting that at p7, you're at the same place I am after p4!
I think flubber is town, because he don't give a shit. Conman is scum though because he does give a shit.

[TheReverend]

lane's #119 is good. I defintely get a sense of sincerity here. ricastle's #126 is not, that's an overly defensive reaction.

Plotinus is complaining about the fake scum claim from choof. I get a sense of sincerity here too, this is exactly how I feel about the matter.

ricastle seems keen to ensure people see it as nothing more than a joke, which is interesting. My natural reaction is to consider the frame of mind where the comment comes from... the motivation behind it. Did he post it to amuse, or confuse? I know I don't like it, but I'm not going to pretend to have figured out the motivation behind it yet. ricastle seems to have figured it out though.

ricastle is scum.

Up to p6, back later.

[TheReverend]

Right I'm back to continue my read through...

p7

ricastle still looks scum to me. Here he is trying to look like he wants to do stuff...

Jesus, this thread is dead. Something needs to happen. Anyone got ideas?

This is worthy of note...

Speaking of inactives, Spartan is V/LA until tomorrow I think, and hasn't been able to check in. He's got coursework deadlines.

I realise conman has explained this comment, and the explanation seems good, however it might not be honest. This is certainly worth looking into again if either of them flip scum.

Yeah I'm just going to swap brains with farside and magically understand what the fuck she's saying for you

This feels super town, I just don't see scum this confrontational. This isn't the first time I've got a "don't give a fuck" feeling from flubber's posts, and I consider that to be a town tell for most people because scum are more likely to try to avoid direct confrontation.

Is flubber a majiffy alt? It's not vifam because vifam doesn't like capital letters.

Do you guys want me to message Spartan again? He was on our Minecraft server for a little bit earlier

Yeah conman should really stop talking about this.

Are you just trying to cover up your slip and prove how much you talk to him in real life?

That was what I was thinking.

ok that's up to p9, time for a break.

ricastle scum, everyone else still to be sorted.

[TheReverend]

Haha first one to spot my super derp gets a town point.

[TheReverend]

hmmm... I think I can see why the vote is on Reverend now... I'm not sure though..

Moving onto Bella's ISO..

Ok so I took a look at papi to see what the fuss is all about and this caught my attention. I hadn't realised I picked up votes, I'll adress that in a minute. What I don't like here is papi is more than happy to sit on the fence regarding me, this strikes me as someone who is waiting to see if my wagon catches before committing to a read. I'm confortable with the papi wagon based on what I've read.

That said, I haven't read up fully yet, I'm still missing from page 10 onwards, and I won't have any more time today, I've had a busy day and to be quite honest I can't be bothered to do any work, so I'm in no hurry to add my weight regarding papi. I'd rather hold back to see if I can find the time to catch up before deadline, I should be able to. Still, papi should expect my vote to be on him and therefore he's effectively L-1 and should think about claiming, considering we're near deadline.

Now, as for the votes for me...

340 - Reverend is very likely to be SK, and if not, he is scum. Most of the time, when people are hunting a SK it's because they are one or they're scum concerned with who can kill them.

I can assure you that me speculating on SK is very much null. I speculate a lot as town. I do so as scum too, but only because I know I do it as town. I'm either town being town, or scum trying to be town.

I understand that scum will be concerned about the SK, but if I'm going to hunt the SK for that reason, I'm probably more likely to do that in the scum QT. You're barking up the wrong tree here.

Still, I like toffee's tone, I don't feel like he's trying to get me mislynched. I'm towning toffee.

-4
TheReverend - I liked his entrance until BBT said that him focusing on the SK is a scumtell and now that he's said it I can see the point and I think I might have read that somewhere before I'd just forgotten it.

This I don't like. Plot gave me good vibes earlier, but this undoes that for sure. It's the fact that he goes from liking me to hating me based on what toffee thinks about SK speculation. This is highly opportunistic.

[TheReverend]

sadly I think the rev maybe scum after all.

Why sadly? If you are town and think you have caught scum, you should be happy.

Why do you think I'm scum? Why haven't you, the only person here who knows my game, told toffee that actually I am the kind of person who would openly speculate about SK as town? Toffee is applying a universal read to me, that you should know to be flawed. Alarm bells are ringing here farside.

[TheReverend]

@rev, you got any links to show you doing that elsewhere?

That requires sifting through my game history. I can't be bothered right now. Maybe tomorrow if I'm in trouble.

[TheReverend]

Why are you seeking a lycnh instead of a claim, toffee?

[TheReverend]

That didn't get the point across I intended.

Why are you in a hurry to get a lynch? There's 5 days left, there's no hurry. It's obvious papi is the lynch.

[TheReverend]

Well I certainly don't want to see papi lynched before he posts again.

[TheReverend]

Aw bless you missed me? I'm touched.

Farside, put yourself in my scum shoes. What's the first thing I do if I replace into a scum slot?

[TheReverend]

I'll not wait for your reply.

First thing I do when I replace into a scum slot is to ISO my predecessor, just to see if he left me in the shit. That would take an acute awareness of who I replaced.

Speaking of inactives, Spartan is V/LA until tomorrow I think, and hasn't been able to check in. He's got coursework deadlines.

I realise conman has explained this comment, and the explanation seems good, however it might not be honest. This is certainly worth looking into again if either of them flip scum.

Now, tell me, did I forget who I replaced? Or did I derp this shit up so I could use it in my defence?

I'd like to think I could do that, actually.

[TheReverend]

I started to ISO you but it's really hard to get any sense of context seeing as I'm not fully in this yet. You're very town toned, but then again I'm not even sure if I've seen you as scum. You're super fast to scumread me though, and you won't explain why, so you're making me nervous.

[TheReverend]

Wait pisskop is in the list of players. Is he in this?

[TheReverend]

Senator = pisskop?

[TheReverend]

Yea. Hi farside, domo, and Flubber!

Haha sup!

Your ISO isn't very scummy, and you're super scummy when you're scum, so you must be town.

I'm not sure I'm comfortable towning you on d1. We might need to argue at some point.

[TheReverend]

What really? You think I'm scummy for holding back my vote when I replace in? Meanwhile, toffee thinks I'm scum for speculating about SK!

This is going to be a fun game.

[TheReverend]

FYI farside, I more or less follow a formula for replacing in, in an attempt to attain balance.

I say hi, and then start reading up and making notes, making sure to vote ONLY after I'm fully up to date. Whether town or scum. Me holding back my vote at this stage is 100% null as fuck, because I'm still doing what I consciously try to do as either elignment.

You should know this, surely? You shouldn't expect me to make a sloppy vote based on half a thread.

[TheReverend]

You didn't like papi but your holding back to let him finish.

Actually I'm holding back to let ME finish. I'm basically being selfish, trying to prolong the day to give me more time to read up, because I got bored at page ten.

[TheReverend]

I could be wrong, but I can't recall a single game you replaced into that I was part of.

My memory isn't the best. I've played a fair few times with you, and I've subbed into tons of games, but maybe not one you were in.

Yes I'm chit chatting instead of catching up. I actually don't like catching up, it's boring. And when it comes to you, I feel like I'm going to get better reads on you through interaction than I am from reading up. Casual chatting is easy, it's not work. I don't even get much from my read through, other than to familiarise myself with the playerlist.

[TheReverend]

You are giving me fits right now my friend.

Well we'll talk about that more tomorrow then shall we.

For now I'll make you slightly happier.

vote papi

That's L-1. I'll finish my read through the night, I'll gamble I don't take the NK and laugh if I do.

[TheReverend]

I guess I'm not surprised. The whole point of the alt is to try creating a new meta.

I logged into this acc by accident and though meh fuck it I'll be rev again for a bit. Has nothing to do with new meta. People know rev = domo.

If you're going to have a new alt for new meta though, you should prob abandon pisskop in the meantime, otherwise you'll acc slip like a muppet! Notice no DOMO posts yet? There won't be. DOMO is currently inactive.

[TheReverend]

Two? I'm sure I've seen you as town and scum.

[TheReverend]

We played in 1553 and 1559. What is my scum meta?

Scummy. I might be remembering wrong, but as I recall, I read you correctly when you were scum, and had a little more difficulty with you when you were town.

[TheReverend]

I was town both games. Between Farside and Iyoice manged to confuse a lot wrt past exeroences. Im thinking you might be scum.

Papi, your next posts should include reasons not to hammer you.

Haha so now I'm scum for the following reasons...

1) Speculating about SK,
2) Failing to vote quickly when subbing in,
3) Having a bad memory.

Dude I'm a stoner, I've been smoking heavily for 20 years, I'm surprised I can even remember my name. Even still, I think you're wrong, that you've been scum in a game that I was involved in, but I might be wrong. Even if it's you who's wrong, I wouldn't go as far as suggesting it's scummy, because it's obviously not.

The reasons people are giving for me being scummy are thin, to say the least. There must be one scum between you and farside trying to get rid of me before I can become a threat.

[TheReverend]

That's a bullshit claim if ever I saw one.

[TheReverend]

To elaborate, I'd expect doc to just claim outright without feeling the need to put it in the middle of a wall unbolded.

There's no desperation to get the point across, it's too casual.

[TheReverend]

unvote

I suppose we should at least talk.

[TheReverend]

lynch farside

[TheReverend]

vote lynch whatever, does that count?

[TheReverend]

Anyway, what are we going to do? Run whoever up to L-1, and only lynch them if they claim the be vanilla?

farside should know better here. papi is still the lynch. His scum equity went UP thanks to the claim, not down.

[TheReverend]

Well what do you expect papi to do if he's scum?

There's 3 scums, 1 SK and 3 docs. He's slightly more likely to be scum or SK than doc, in terms of pure probability. Factor in that the claim is scummy, and this looks good to me.

Furthermore, what happens if we don't lynch papi? We get someone else to L-1, who if scum, will simply claim doc to give us an even bigger headache. Are we only lynching those who claim vanilla? Is that the plan?

[TheReverend]

Backup doesn't claim doc, backup claims backup because that's as good as innocent child.

[TheReverend]

To elaborate, I'd expect doc to just claim outright without feeling the need to put it in the middle of a wall unbolded.

There's no desperation to get the point across, it's too casual.

[TheReverend]

PS: How is claiming backup like IC? Its a weaker CCable role, that's all.

It's a weak role, but it's a stupid fakeclaim for scum because it's easily counterclaimed at no gain for the scum. Are you seriously having to ask why the person who claims back isn't confirmed?

[TheReverend]

is confirmed

Phone posting annoys me

[TheReverend]

Like he seriously needs to bold it and put it first?

No, he needs to come across as sincere. Casually saying you're doc in the middle of a reads post at L-1 does not betray a sense of urgency, which is what I would expect from a doc on the ropes.

You have managed to dodge the other point I was making...

Are we planning to only lynch someone who claims vanilla? Is the d1 plan to hopefully run all the docs and scums into claiming so we can just lynch all the doc claims?

[TheReverend]

We have to be prepared to risk lynching a doc, that's my point. A doc claim should not be considered immunity from lynch.

[TheReverend]

I'm starting to think both senator and farside are scum.

[TheReverend]

Man that would be sick to sub into a game where farside and pisskop were scum crusing and then I came along and fucked it all up for them.

That would explain the hostility.

[TheReverend]

So it's Chinese fire drill time then?

These always work out well.

vote ricastle

[TheReverend]

I don't like how we let someone scummy get to L-1 and then let them off the hook with a claim that can't be counterclaimed.

No I'm not caught up. I'm gonna read the last bits through the night, I figure I'll get more from it with flip info.

[TheReverend]

I have a stronger scum read on conman.
You think I should continue to allow him to lurk and do shit fucking all, let me know why that is.

Ok fair enough. I guess I just expected you to smell the bullshit. Toffee can smell it. Conman is on my list of scummy, but it's a half baked list that has you, senator and ricastle on, too. Papi is on the ropes and has given us a fishy claim. He remains our best lynch imo.

[TheReverend]

574 - Why are you changing votes if you don't believe the claim?

Well I unvoted because we're going to get decent discussion. I voted ricastle because if we're going for a CFD, that's who I'd go for.

[TheReverend]

I don't even understand why we are waiting for claims in this setup. Also cc'ing a doc right now is impossible/dumb unless I'm missing something

I'd have been more inclined to believe him if he claimed vanilla.

[TheReverend]

I don't even understand why we are waiting for claims in this setup. Also cc'ing a doc right now is impossible/dumb unless I'm missing something

This is fishy actually.

We don't want to lynch an unclaimed backup, do we now?

[TheReverend]

@toffee - idk, I think we get a lot from people's reactions to these kind of things. Scum would have anticipated this, their reactions are more likely to be considered in advance. There's still a fair few people who haven't posted since the claim. I'll be back on papi in due course, but let's give it a day or so.

[TheReverend]

Where do I give the impression they had pre game chat? When I say considered in advance? I mean in their minds. They know if it's a mislynch or not, if he's scum they know he'll fakeclaim. Scum's next move will be more carefully considered than town.

[TheReverend]

Well we surely agree that it's ok to at least let people respond to the claim before we seal the deal? It's not like we have anything to lose.

[TheReverend]

@rev, what is a Chinese fire-drill?

It's where we spend most of the day in an orderly fashion, then at the last minute we all flail our arms in the air while running in different directions. A panic lynch, basically.

[TheReverend]

I don't like the lets have a lynch or Rev's I want to catch up

Why? It's super standard. In fact as scum I doubt I'd dick about, I'd just get on with it in an effort to make the right impression. As town I don't really care what impression I make.

[TheReverend]

Why? The reactions from both those players are quite standard here at this site when someone wants to lynch a claimed doc.

It's more their attitude towards me. I feel like there's no attempt to get a feel for me, when both of them should have a better than average ability to do so. Farside more so. I didn't like her reaction to the claim, but that in iteself isn't why I'm concerned.

let me know which one is accurate.

Why can't both be accurate? Why are you making these comments out to be incompatible with one another? I do repalce into games with that mindset, following a neutral agenda while I settle in. The point I'm making in my second comment is that I'm more likely to abandon that plan as town than scum, because not bothering to read up fully and being open about it isn't exactly likely to win me many friends.

I feel like you're twisting my words here, this doesn't give me a sense of "getting a feel for me", this is agenda driven.

[TheReverend]

In the meantime Reverend is doing his best to avoid content.

Ok now take a look at the activity overview, noting your activity compared to mine, making sure not to forget that I subbed in half way through the day while you didn't, and then tell me this again.

[TheReverend]

I dare you to do a word count of our ISOs senator.

[TheReverend]

Can you start ptoducing something now?

Sure. Scum is you, papi and farside. SK is ricastle.

You're welcome.

[TheReverend]

Dude.

It's day one. Why do I have to justify my lack of content to you?

[TheReverend]

My point is with the word count, I took a glance at your ISO and your content is not any better than mine. I've been talking to keep myself interested while I wait for night so I can catch up. The lynch is decided. There's nothing for me to gain by reading up now rather than during the night when I have papi's role info to assist me. All I can do is specualte, and as much as I love doing that, I can't be bothered to because we're a day or two from lynch.

[TheReverend]

Ok senator. Tell me what the scum motivation is in pretending to forget previous history between us. I've just spent the last 15 minutes trawlking through old games to see if you're right or not. Looks like you are right. I can find two games, you were town in both. It shouldn't even matter. So I forgot. Big deal.

Why is my bolded comment scummy? Why is it scummy for me to question why I have to justify my lack of content to someone who has posted less than me, in terms of posts and actual words, despite being in the game since it started? Why am I having to explain myself to you? Why aren't you explaining to me your lack of content?

[TheReverend]

Then votes for Papi to appease BBT/Farside and still wont read or evem produce content?

I have explained why I stopped reading. I got bored, knowing that the lynch was decided, and figured I would gain more from reading through the night.

Why is this even an issue for you? Because you're having to pull scum reads out of your arse. That's not a town tell in my book.

[TheReverend]

I'm attempting to be friendly? That's funny.

I'm not evaluating the game state? What the fuck? Of course I am! It's nearly the end of d1, the lynch is decided, the only reason it hasn't happened yet is because there's actually still some decent discussion going on. I've evaluated the game state. You're throwing baseless accusations at me, it's just rhetoric.

My words are filler? As far as I'm concerned, I'm interacting with someone I think is scum in an effort to further refine my read. You're not doing much to convince me I'm wrong. You're making false accusations while accusing me of lacking content, even though I'm actively involved after subbing in half way through the day. What do you expect of me? Should I have solved the game by now?

[TheReverend]

You know who's lacking content senator? Your scumbuddy, sorry I mean the doc.

He claimed doc at L-1, then fucked off and left us to argue amongst ourselves.

Why do you suppose he isn't trying to convince us to not lynch him while desperately hunting scum?

[TheReverend]

If you keep saying I'm irrelevant and lacking in content, you might start to convince people.

Can we stop trying to lynch a doctor and start here with scum Reverend?

So I'm dodging content and being irrelevant. Meanwhile, you didn't answer my question. Where is the doc? Why is he sitting back and letting us lynch him without him helping us to find scum?

[TheReverend]

Ive quoted and lain out my case. please start saying relevant things and stop obfuscating, thanks.

Your case seems to be that forgetfulness, sloppiness and d1 apathy = scummy. You're accusing me of lacking content just because I refuse to read the middle chunk of pages until night. You're suggesting that there's scum motivation in misremembering past games with multiple people, even though I'm obviously aware that such comments will be disproved easily. You don't like me joinging the papi wagon after saying I would wait, even though the lynch is decided and there's no time to find a vaible alternative without basically panic lynching someone. Your case is shit.

My case on you is that actually I have been relatively active and involved, my content is better than average, despite me subbing in, and that you are lying about me and giving me a hard time for thin reasons, without any flexibility, which leads me to think that you are having to work hard to find reasons to find people scummy.

[TheReverend]

Your case on me is as made up out of the air as anything you post. How about you tell me why I was scum back here in post 571 instead of AtE?

I explained that to someone else. It's your tone towards me. I don't get a sense of getting a feel for me, you're infelxible.

Also, I forgot to add this in on my phone. He knows full well how to vote, this wasn't some pressure thing; this is literally pointless.

I also play on other sites where we say lynch instead of vote, but vote would be accepted because so long as intent is clear, votes count. I actually do not know if the mod will accept "lynch" in bold rather than "vote". I assume it's mod dependant, rather than a set in stone rule. If it mattered, I'd have reposted a correct vote, but since it was basically a vanity wagon that was never going to ignite, I didn't feel it was important.

It isn't important. The fact that you're pointing to this is yet further evidence of your infelxibiltiy and desperation to paint a scummy picture where no scum motivation exists.

[TheReverend]

I explained that to someone else.

It's amusing that you're moaning at me for not reading everything when you clearly haven't.

[TheReverend]

Flubber buddying me makes me nervous. He seemd a lot more aggressive when I was reading through.

[TheReverend]

my posting won't feel like buddying if you don't deliver tomorrow

How do you know I haven't delivered today?

[TheReverend]

And then, he isn't reading now, hasn't actually fleshed out his reads, and is dodging with all the grace of TSO. He isn't reading up now that there is time because . . . ???

I'll get more from reading with the extra info that papi's flip will give me.

Which you'd know, if you read my posts, instead of flailing hard trying to make me look scummy by mocking my content.

Which you haven't read.

[TheReverend]

Yeah fine I'm ready to jump back on.

vote papi

[TheReverend]

Oh. Well, I was referring to the incoming flip. If this is a scum flip, then I'm happy enough with my d1 contribution. I don't really give a toss how others feel.

[TheReverend]

would it be worthwhile hanging onto papi and having him investigated?

By who? The tracker? That would be really convenient for the scum if they knew who was getting tracked.

[TheReverend]

ok farside isn't scum because conman is.

[TheReverend]

I don't see anything in set up about roleblockers;

He implies here that he read the setup.

He's surely referring to the tracker, but that is just oozing scum motivation. There's probably an argument that it's too scummy to be scum.

[TheReverend]

You just suggested that we have papi investigated. That's not quite the same as sneezing.

[TheReverend]

Yup. Which is why it's scummier than sneezing.

[TheReverend]

Why can't flub be baiting him because con thinks flub is scum and papi is town? My brain apparently isn't working right. I mean why can't that be why con thinks flub is baiting him?

I gotta say I agree with this. I'm not liking conman's content, but that "slip" is ambiguous and can come from either scum or town imo.

So you found nothing of merit in his postings.

You keep saying this. But time and again you demonstrate that you're not even reading my posts. Like asking me to explain what I've already explained. So how the hell would you know if there's merit to my postings?

[TheReverend]

And then, he isn't reading now, hasn't actually fleshed out his reads, and is dodging with all the grace of TSO. He isn't reading up now that there is time because . . . ???

How about you tell me why I was scum back here in post 571 instead of AtE?

Both of these questions of yours could have been answered by reading my posts. Why are you asking me to repeat myself if you're reading what I'm posting?

[TheReverend]

Or, more to the point, why is there no merit to my postings when you can't even remember what I've posted?

[TheReverend]

farside tell toffee that self meta is typical rev/domo before I tell him myself.

Why haven't we hammered papi yet? I'm bored of today.

[TheReverend]

Senator you're asking flubber to answer questions, but you have twice ignored a question from me.

When someone claims at L-1 and then goes to ground, do you think that is more likely to come from scum or town?

[TheReverend]

Oh, maybe "go to ground" is an English term. It's like he said something then hit the ground so people can't see him.

He's disappeared completely.

[TheReverend]

Ok. I suppose I'm applying average standards to him here, but I expect a town PR when claiming at L-1 to make more of an effort to survive and hunt. But I grant this is very much player dependent; some people might indeed just abandon the game out of frustration. But I can't accept that as basis to back off him, nor can I accept his crappy claim. He's easily the best lynch. The fact we have three docs and a backup means that the risk is minimal. Leaving him until later is only going to make life more difficult in later days.

Of course, that's why i would expect scum to want to keep him around regardless of his alignment.

[TheReverend]

I thought it was clear I think papi is scum. I'm not on the fence about him.

Scum want him around? Of course they do. He's either scum, or a huge distraction.

[TheReverend]

It is clear I think papi is scum. Why are you misrepping me?

[TheReverend]

Senator here is trying to push for my mislynch after papi's.

Papi is town and senator knows it.

vote senator

pedit - I have certainly made it clear on more than one occasion that I intend to analyse during the night with flip info.

[TheReverend]

I don't, not now. The tone of senator's attack on me really gives me concerns about this lynch.

[TheReverend]

I could lynch Senator but I really think we're best lynching Papi first.

You should tell me why Reverend is town. He just tried the weakest sauce in the book.

I'm town because you're not.

[TheReverend]

My homesite is a poker strategy forum, FlopTurnRiver. The games are a lot more casual than here, the meta is incomparable really. I have loads of games as both alignments here as rev and DOMO though, if you're looking to metadive me.

[TheReverend]

Haha yeah that's me. You're FTR?

pedit - I'm more confident senator is scum. I'm prepared to hammer papi if no senator wagon forms.

[TheReverend]

Hi cobra! Yeah we'll leave the rest of the pleasantries until after.

pedit - cobra doesn't play werewolf at ftr, I know him from the strat forums. It's actually a surprise to see him playing mafia offsite, but that's irrelevant.

[TheReverend]

Senator, when I said I'm town because you're not, I wasn't joking. You've cleared me, thanks.

[TheReverend]

I think it's blatantly obvious I'm town btw.

I agree. To me, senator is demonstrating here that his strategy is to throw shit back in the face of anyone who points the finger at him. There's no reason to suspect you at this moment. You're not immune from analysis, obviously, but you're my strongest town read by some. Even if I could accept the sincerity of his read on me, pointing at you is scummy as hell. He's just trying to discredit those who think he's scum.

[TheReverend]

They're based on town opinion. Or at least vocal town's opinion. Of course you like them. ffs.

Wait, did you just call me town here?

Did you just proper clear me?

[TheReverend]

Full context...

That's great. Can you answer my question? What makes him town?? I can't keep repeating myself. I shouldn't have to. Why is that so hard to answer?

I like his reads.

They're based on town opinion. Or at least vocal town's opinion. Of course you like them. ffs..

Looks a lot to me like senator knows I'm town and just slipped.

[TheReverend]

Actually the more I think about that slip the more ambiguous it becomes. It could even be a town tell, since it's such an obvious slip that only town could seriously miss it upon preview.

Why would scum say that?

That's gonna bug me.

[TheReverend]

Yeah fine.

vote papi

[TheReverend]

Longest. Hammer. Ever.

[TheReverend]

huzaah, just do it.

[TheReverend]

He hasn't posted in 38 hours since claiming at L-1. There's nothing he can say now that will stop this.

[TheReverend]

WHERE IS THIS HAMMER?

[TheReverend]

Bravo!

[TheReverend]

inb4 lock

[TheReverend]

Get the fuck in.

The ricastle kill is also fantastic because I had him as scum after reading through. I assume scum are SK hunting here.

I'm with the family until tomorrow so my activity will be minimal until I'm back home.

[TheReverend]

I think we want to get either the scum or SK before we consider outing the docs. Until then, I can't think of a way for the docs to synchronise without claiming.

Tracker's power in this setup lies in an uncountered claim, and in claiming last to catch liars. So tracker should just play to his own strategy imo. If tracker is forced to claim earlier than optimal, he most certainly should not say what his actions were straight away; we should instead consider massclaiming before tracker tells us more, in the hope that scum claims vanilla and gets caught, or feels compelled to claim doc and hides in a smaller pool.

Farside's idea has its merits, but for me I'd just anticipate a shitstorm of wifom tomorrow when we analyse tonight's kills. It possibly creates more problems than it solves.

[TheReverend]

Toffee is the SK.

Alright, I'm fairly confident that Farside, Reverend, ConMan and Lane are town. I don't think I will vote for any of these people, ever.

This is the mindset of someone who isn't even thinking about the SK. He's determined we're not scum due to interaction, but how can he know we're not SK? Why would he never lynch us in the game when he can have no way of knowing if any of us are SK? There's four people here who he won't lynch? This is not a natural town position in a game with a SK.

Who here other than toffee has a list of "not lynching ever"?

[TheReverend]

I'm not at home so I don't have my notes to hand. I'll ISO him now.

[TheReverend]

This suggests that ConMan is the 3rd scum. Flubber and ConMan voted each other, possibly to distance. ConMan's only vote is on the CW.

Yeah I can see dave scum. This here looks to me like classic scum attempt to link town to scum so dave has an easy target if flubber dies.

At a theory level only, the SK is likely to be someone who was scumreading Flubber. I have someone in mind already but it will take some reading to verify.
At a WIFOM level, the SK might be someone who wasn't scumreading Flubber, trying to get us to pursue someone who was.

This smacks of someone who is concerned about the SK after flubber died.

He was also soft defending papi.

Yeah dave is a good shot for 3rd scum.

[TheReverend]

You're right though, I'm not even thinking about the SK right now. I have no idea how to find a SK.

Finding the SK is tough, but when someone hints that they are blissfully unaware of the threat he poses, that suggests to me that the SK is no threat to that individual.

I don't think you're scum and that remains my priority because interaction tells are more reliable than gut SK tells imo, certainly on d2 with two dead scums. I'm more interested in lynching those who have a good shot of being either scum or SK.

@farside -

I don't really like Papi Bear's reaction to that post though. It's very defensive even though it's not really directed mainly at him. RMM just said any lurker and it wasn't like PB was the only lurker currently in the game.

Yeah, I'm sorry I think Papi is town. >___>

VOTE: RMM

I can see wrong song too. Scumreading papi until push comes to shove. This doesn't look good to me.

I'm holding my vote back for now, I want to ISO everyone.

[TheReverend]

Oh good senator is quoting his pisskop posts, I was gonna have a moan about that. I don't care about the slips, just try to repost as senator asap so it's in the correct place in your ISO please. Cheers.

Anyway, I'm gonna start getting through ISO's. Naturall I'll start with the smallest because I'm a lazy shitbag. And I'll admit right now I'm going to be glancing through; if I'm to read through them all thoroughly then I'll be here until next week.

vettrock ISO tells me nothing. He's dave right? I looked at dave already, dave is scummy.

choof/wanderer...

While choof doesn't put a vote on either flubber or papi, I like the tone of his posts when he's talking to them. It's think because he's not really putting any pressure on them, but it doesn't feel awkward or forced. Choof's content is lacking, but wanderer's is not. Wanderer is looking very good. This slot feels like town to me.

janne/madman...

jeanee is obviously null with just an opening post.

Tbh, I suggest a policy lynch of a lurker d1. Town that doesn't contribute should be gotten rid of and if they happen to be maf it's a bonus.

Ironic. This is an awful post, seeing as madman has done bugger all but lurk the shit out of the game.

His ISO is dreadful. Scummy as hell.

Alright everyone else's ISO is bigger than the mod's so I'm taking a break.

[TheReverend]

It's think because

* it's thin

[TheReverend]

Why is the ric kill fantastic? Sorry, I'm not parsing this.

The ricastle kill was good from my pov because I thought he was scum and was planning to swing for him today. I'd be tunnelling him if he hadn't got killed.

[TheReverend]

FAQ2 is town as fuck based on his comments about flubber and papi.

I got plotinus as town too...

I'm a lot more sure of my vote on Papi at this point than I was of you, and everyone else who had voted you has unvoted by now. Anyway, keep scumhunting and you'll rise into the yellow group.

He had turned on me and could have kept the pressure on me instead of moving his vote to scum. Here he makes clear he'd rather lynch papi than me. I'm liking this.

[TheReverend]

I actually agree with madman... let's lynch a lurker.

vote madman

[TheReverend]

You just increased your post count by over 20% in hgalf an hour. Well done.

Madman, you don't seem to be doing anything to look for scum. You seem to think that being second on the papi wagon equals content worthy of awe. You're popping up within minutes of me pointing the finger at you, and now you emerge again to tell me to get my vote off you, instead of doing something constructive.

If you're town, you're awful and need to go before lylo.

pedit - how are you lurking? You just increased your post count by an impressive 33% in half an hour, as soon as people start to turn the screw on you. How are you not lurking?

[TheReverend]

I hate ISO'ing people. Why did I do the small ones first?

[TheReverend]

I'm willing to take that risk. If you were reading the thread, you'd know that already.

[TheReverend]

You're funny. I'm not moving my vote because you're maybe a PR, because everyone is maybe a PR.

You haven't claimed. You've softclaimed. That's scummy as shit.

[TheReverend]

Ok.

unvote

[TheReverend]

I'm happy for you to leave it at that for now.

[TheReverend]

I know you're not a cop because I've read the setup.

I don't really care what you are at this point. If you are town and remain half claimed, that makes life more awkward for scum than town. And if you're scum/SK, the other faction will hit you sooner or later.

[TheReverend]

What are you doing conman? That vote is premature ejaculation. If madman is scum/SK, then he's claimed way too early. He's committed to a PR claim, so if he's a baddie, then we've got him so long as we get the other baddie before the docs outnumber the vanillas.

madman is either a PR or dead scum walking.

[TheReverend]

lane, I really don't think senator and bella are scumbuddies.

Call it a hunch.

[TheReverend]

I still think Reverend is scummy, and knowing that Papi and Flubber flipped scum isn't a dealbreaker.

Is it bad that I kind of hoped you would die so you would stop grilling me?

These two posts are interesting. I've been holding back from tunnelling senator today, because yesterday was a lot of noise, and I wanted to reassess.

But the first quote here shows he has no intention of backing off me, despite the papi scumflip. This has an air of wanting to keep open mislynch options.

The second quote implies he knows toffee is town, or at least not senator's alignment. Why would town say this? Why would town assume that toffee is a high NK priority? And even if we make that assumption, it implies that toffee is a strong town asset, and senator should NOT want him NK'ed. It doesn't sit well with me at all.

I'm still not impressed with senator. That said, the papi flip I felt looked better for him than a papi townflip would've done, it would be ballsy to blatantly try to save your buddy on the ropes when every man and his dog felt he was scummy.

I'm a little torn on senator.

[TheReverend]

Why does Papi being scum make you town?

It doesn't. I have a history of bussing. But you didn't even stop to question if the papi flip makes me look better or not. You just stick with your scumread.

I'm not following this line of thought. You just got done telling BBT he was the SK because he was trying to form a townbloc, and you now assume that somebody is conftown?

lol I like what you did here. You imply you know toffee is town by assuming he's a NK target, and then when I point that out, you suggest I'm implying toffee is town. Nice.

[TheReverend]

The second quote implies he knows toffee is town, or at least not senator's alignment.

And I didn't imply he's explicitly town. I implied that you know he's not your alignment.

[TheReverend]

You sure have a roundabout way of pushing it. This looks like a utility lynch to you, judging by your ISO.

Seriously, this is town? He keeps finding ways to weasel out new opinions and contradict himself.

Spoiler: Rev on Papi

That said, I haven't read up fully yet, I'm still missing from page 10 onwards, and I won't have any more time today, I've had a busy day and to be quite honest I can't be bothered to do any work, so I'm in no hurry to add my weight regarding papi. I'd rather hold back to see if I can find the time to catch up before deadline, I should be able to. Still, papi should expect my vote to be on him and therefore he's effectively L-1 and should think about claiming, considering we're near deadline.

Why are you in a hurry to get a lynch? There's 5 days left, there's no hurry. It's obvious papi is the lynch.

Well I certainly don't want to see papi lynched before he posts again.

You didn't like papi but your holding back to let him finish.

Actually I'm holding back to let ME finish. I'm basically being selfish, trying to prolong the day to give me more time to read up, because I got bored at page ten.

farside should know better here. papi is still the lynch. His scum equity went UP thanks to the claim, not down.

Well what do you expect papi to do if he's scum?
There's 3 scums, 1 SK and 3 docs. He's slightly more likely to be scum or SK than doc, in terms of pure probability. Factor in that the claim is scummy, and this looks good to me.
Furthermore, what happens if we don't lynch papi? We get someone else to L-1, who if scum, will simply claim doc to give us an even bigger headache. Are we only lynching those who claim vanilla? Is that the plan?

Papi is on the ropes and has given us a fishy claim. He remains our best lynch imo.

@toffee - idk, I think we get a lot from people's reactions to these kind of things. Scum would have anticipated this, their reactions are more likely to be considered in advance. There's still a fair few people who haven't posted since the claim. I'll be back on papi in due course, but let's give it a day or so.

Sure. Scum is you, papi and farside. SK is ricastle.

I've been talking to keep myself interested while I wait for night so I can catch up. The lynch is decided. There's nothing for me to gain by reading up now rather than during the night when I have papi's role info to assist me. All I can do is specualte, and as much as I love doing that, I can't be bothered to because we're a day or two from lynch.

I'll get more from reading with the extra info that papi's flip will give me.

Yeah fine I'm ready to jump back on.

vote papi

---

Why can't flub be baiting him because con thinks flub is scum and papi is town? My brain apparently isn't working right. I mean why can't that be why con thinks flub is baiting him?

I gotta say I agree with this. I'm not liking conman's content, but that "slip" is ambiguous and can come from either scum or town imo.

[/line]

Why haven't we hammered papi yet? I'm bored of today.

Papi is the lynch here, irregardless of anything else. This is scum trying to hammer home a mislynch, a scum who didn't read, and isn't going to read. A scum who sees Papi as furthering his own ends, and everyone's silence on the merit of his posting is only furthering this.

Look! 'Misrep'? Bah.

Here's where you say I'm scum hammering home a mislynch.

Now you can see that it's not a mislynch.

Do you stop to reassess? Nope. If he flipped town, you'd be all over me for pushing for his mislynch. But since he flipped scum, instead you're pointing out the hesitation in my vote. How very convenient.

[TheReverend]

As crazy as this is gonna sound, I think senator is town.

If he flipped town, you'd be all over me for pushing for his mislynch. But since he flipped scum, instead you're pointing out the hesitation in my vote. How very convenient.

If senator is setting me up for his next push in the event of a papi town flip, it suggests he didn't know what papi was going to flip.

I'm going round in circles with senator.

[TheReverend]

For me scum is either Dave or wrong song.

This is where I'm leaning at the moment.

Senator. Can't you talk slowly please so dim people like me can follow what you're saying?

And in addition, if there were 3 scum, and 2 died, then BBT and I couldnt be on the same scumteam by simple math alone!

I'm confident you're not on the same scumteam and toffee. If I suggested you were before the flips, then I was clearly wrong. If I suggested you were after the flips, then I'm stupid.

No matter what a person's aligment somebody would have a reason ro want to kill them. Why are you reaching into that so hard?

I'm not reaching. Look who's using rhetoric now. I'm challenging people who I think are scummy. That's what I do. A great deal of the time I'm wrong, simply because there's a lot more town than scum. I can deal with being wrong.

Look, you think I'm scum, I don't think you're scum. Vote for me. Let's not throw shit at each other all day again.

[TheReverend]

He tends to really evaluate players.

Well this is clearly missing here. This is compelling meta.

This is a setup where PRs want to be townie enough to not get lynched, but scummy enough to not get NK'd. Just sayin'...

This feels like a crumb, but why would anyone crumb a PR in this setup? I guess tracker might crumb his results somehow, but hinting at PR in this manner seems to me like an attempt to scare people off him.

dave looks like the lynch to me.

vote dave

[TheReverend]

Are you saying he IS scum but should be left alive? Why?

I'm saying he's either town and therefore a PR, or he has fakeclaimed too soon. We're in such a good position right now that we can afford to put PR claims to one side. I don't think last scum or SK would spazz claim PR at L-6, it would be slow suicide, so he's probably town. But even if he's not, it's certainly not going to be a game winning fakeclaim for him.

[TheReverend]

Wrong Song has been prodded.

[TheReverend]

My main worry about the Rmm slot is that they would be lynch bait later, if town, and scum night wanna keep them around.

He's a claimed PR. Tomorrow, or perhaps the day after, we have a massclaim, and then we will be able to figure out if the baddies who are left have claimed doc or vanilla. We might be able to prove him inno when massclaim. Or, if he's scum, then when we have five docs, we start lynching them provided we have more vanillas. He'd likely be the first, but obviously a lot can happen between now and then.

It seems to me that the scums will want to avoid fakeclaiming for as long as possible, because they will want to claim whichever group is largest out of vanilla and doc. The fact he's claimed PR when the PR pool is MUCH smaller than the vanilla pool means he's either town PR (likely) or soon to be dead scum (unlikely).

Why does this need to be explained to you in such detail?

[TheReverend]

The fact he's claimed PR when the PR pool is MUCH smaller than the vanilla pool means he's either town PR (likely) or soon to be dead scum (unlikely).

There's 6 vanillas + 5 PRs, so this is a bad assumption. I hadn't actually looked at the game state in detail. I didn't realise it was quite that close.

There's possibly merit to a partial massclaim today, ie PR or not PR. It would force scum to make their move earlier than they would like, but it exposes the PRs. I need to think that one through.

[TheReverend]

Of course. But I'm trying to figure out if we can PoE them, which is obviously the best use of our PRs.

[TheReverend]

I don't think we can yet. It's close though. They need to dodge each other's kills, and dodge the docs, and I think even dodge each other. I think we're miles ahead, but not won.

[TheReverend]

I think once we're down to one kill per night this gets a whole lot easier.

[TheReverend]

I s'pose there's merit to a faggoty tracker fakeclaim in the hope of catching a slip, so if the actual tracker sees a fakeclaim, that's what he should assume is going on. But that's about all.

I can see some benefit to the "tracker should claim as vanilla townie if we're massclaiming" lie. but i also think it is premature to try massclaiming, even mass softclaiming.

I don't agree with this. I think when we massclaim, it should be partial.

[TheReverend]

vote conman

[TheReverend]

People do realize that fake claiming at this point is suicide right?

[TheReverend]

Trying to decide if the misspelling is just a shitty joke. Also I'm fairly certain you're not a power role, thus you were awarded my vote. Enjoy it, it'll probably be keeping you company for a while yet.

This deserves more votes.

It has been explained clearly that a fakeclaim is not going to win, and that it's very unlikely that a baddie would spazz claim PR at L-6, yet conman isn't in any hurry to back off. Why doesn't conman accept he's probably wrong about madman and start looking elsewhere based on the premise that conman = town? Why doesn't he reassess? He's not ready to bullshit more reads together.

Let's have a look at flubber's interactions with conman...

Gimme one more scum read and ill move my vote over to plot

This shows flubber was looking for excuses to move his vote.

@con the only way you can accuse me of baiting you into a lynch is if you know papi is town.

VOTE: conman

This flashwagon needs to happen

If con flips scum I'm willing to say he just slipped and cleared papi.

/discuss

There's motivation here for flubber to bus conman. If conman gets lynched instead of papi, then flubber and papi get a shit load of town cred. This would actually be a good play by flubber.

I'm not sure why people were so quick to give conman town cred for this attempt by flubber to divert the wagon.

I think conman is scum.

[TheReverend]

I've invited a lot of unnecessary suspicion onto myself. Perhaps I can help to dispell that. I have also learned the jokes aren't allowed in games on this website. Every person in this game, for example, who has made any sort of attempt at humour, has been scum read by some or other person. Pity, but oh well.
Moving on:
Still feel strongly that flub is scum. From his entrance onwards, he's come after me in a manner which I feel is an attempt to disguise an OMGUS vote.

Also I don't like him explaining himself so much

Stuff like this. If you address a concern to someone, standard convention dictates that they answer it. "I ask him stuff and he answers. What the hell man?" That reads as utter nonsense. Of course I'm going to explain myself. That's the point of addressing me; to hear my explanation of behaviours. This argument is foundless.

Also, re: mis formatted vote, read post zero:

Votes may be either bolded or placed in a vote tag. If I think it is a vote I will count it.

That I messed up vote tag would indicate I was trying to vote. I had no reason to assume that wouldn't be obvious.

Awesome so you're rvs'ing to fuck around and not to scumhunt by your own admission

But being a douche makes you right so idk

You falter in your arguments so you attack your opponents. Nice. I can see the validity of your argument since you have to resort to calling your opponent a douche to maintain it.
There's also the comments about sheeping, and constant beckoning to join the wagon.

Then there's Bella. Slightest bit of scrutiny and hey look, better catch the ConMan wagon! It looks a lot like you're just deflecting people from yourself to me. I don't like that, you're my second scum read. This was noticed by one or two players, but largely ignored.

It's difficult to read people when they're mostly just agreeing with eachother. In this I'm at a disadvantage; not many people are responding to questions because things are largely directed at me. I will say I'm town-leaning a couple of people, but nothing solid enough that I'd deem it worth mentioning.
At this point, the most useful thing I think I can do is to ask you for your thoughts on this and to throw any additional questions my way. I will answer them, unless flubber objects. Probably not immediately as I intend to catch some Z's now.

Ok yeah I should've had a look at conman's posts and ctr/f'd "flub". I only looked at flub's posts.

This looks really good to me and it looks like I'm wrong about flub's motive.

unvote

dave or wrongsong both look like best options to me now.

[TheReverend]

Alright, I'll withdraw my vote for now, but I still don't like RMM's play and it feels like a potential liability for future interactions.

This is fair enough. I'm no fan of his style, but I think he's town, and this isn't a popularity contest. The timing of his claim makes no sense from a scum pov, so I'm not interested in him for the foreseeable future.

[TheReverend]

What's wrong with half claiming like madman?

That said, it's clear that scum would be crazy to fakeclaim, so I'm buying it.

[TheReverend]

What's wrong with half claiming like madman?

What?

Madman claimed PR. Wrong song claimed he can save you. That's a doc claim.

There's no need to full claim, it only helps the scum at this stage.

[TheReverend]

I can see how it reads ambiguous. But yeah to be clear, I'm in favour of people half claiming if they're forced to claim.

[TheReverend]

In case it's not clear how it helps scum when wrong song claims doc, if we assume both claims are legit, it's slightly more likely that madman is tracker than it was before the doc claim. Had wrong song just claimed PR, then scum get no bonus info.

[TheReverend]

Yeah, I don't know why you're pointing out what the potential claims could be so you should stop doing that now.

Are you playing dumb or actually dumb?

Do you really not see the logic behind my thinking? Half claims protect the tracker. We don't need to know wrong song is doc, PR was sufficient to stop the wagon.

[TheReverend]

Right, then sorry for the stupid.

[TheReverend]

dave is clearly the lynch here. He dodged papi, was on the next wagon, he's lurking to shit, keeps making excuses, it's entirely viable that he's just lost interest but doesn't want to replace out and leave someone to take a scum slot in that shape.

vote dave

[TheReverend]

unvote

This is not a bad thing, and I'm not sure why toffee is pretending to be pissed off about this. We've either forced scum into making a bad move, or there's less mislynch bait than there was.

Every claim brings us a little bit closer to PoE'ing the scum.

[TheReverend]

Another point is that with two scums both making their own kills, even fake PR claims will still attract night attention. If dave is scum, well the SK might kill him by attacking what he thought was a PR.

The PR pool is definitely the worst pool to hide in for the scums because that's the pool that is likely to get smaller the quickest.

If we've forced a fakeclaim, then that is a very good thing by my reckoning.

[TheReverend]

No pretending. I wanted to avoid a mass claim so I'm not sure why you think that now we have potentially outed 3 PR's I wouldn't be annoyed.

I see this situation as good because either scum has been forced into making a suboptimal claim, or we have cleared two of the scummiest players in the game. I get the dinstinct feeling that you are unhappy about this because you're not thinking about it from a town pov.

[TheReverend]

I find it funny if you think I'm scum. Like, actually comical.

Why are you confirmed town?

I think you're SK, fwiw.

[TheReverend]

Well you're certainly not confirmed town, I'm sure about that much.

[TheReverend]

Toffee is the SK.

Alright, I'm fairly confident that Farside, Reverend, ConMan and Lane are town. I don't think I will vote for any of these people, ever.

This is the mindset of someone who isn't even thinking about the SK. He's determined we're not scum due to interaction, but how can he know we're not SK? Why would he never lynch us in the game when he can have no way of knowing if any of us are SK? There's four people here who he won't lynch? This is not a natural town position in a game with a SK.

Who here other than toffee has a list of "not lynching ever"?

Hi toff.

[TheReverend]

They might have missed the extra information altogether. That is until you had to point it out with clarity...

Yeah well the point needed making seeing as people are claiming. Yes there's a down side to being explicit in that dumb scum get info they might not have thought about. But the flip side is dumb PRs think more about their claims. Pros and cons.

Protecting the tracker is, imo, more important than hoping the scum are dumb and not strategising effectively.

[TheReverend]

What if a PR had a result?

What result can we hope for? Tracker tagged someone to a kill? Could have been a doc. Tracker is better off holding back his info so he can catch a liar, imo. But it's down to the tracker to decide that for himself.

[TheReverend]

What do you mean what if a PR had a result?

I assume he's asking if the tracker should claim if he has some info that could be useful.

I don't think so, because it's only "useful" info, it won't be a confirmed guilty. If, however, the tracker has a result on someone who claimed vanilla... that's a guilty.

[TheReverend]

Sorry I just assume "he" until I either notice or get told.

[TheReverend]

p-edit again: wut, bbt??

I think I know where one of the PR's lie.

If we're massclaiming, I would like to propose who I think it is and why. If I'm right, I'm confirmed town because that's obviously where I would have killed if I were scum.

Unless you also had a good read on flubber and wanted to trim the scum team.

Toffee is trying way too hard to fend off accusations of being anti-town. He's not even under any pressure today. It's like he's trying to dodge the scum NK as opposed lynch.

I'm like 95% sure toffee is SK.

[TheReverend]

Dodge the scum NK by confirming myself as town?

But you're not confirming yourself as town, for reasons just stated. You might not necessarily go PR hunting as SK, you might go scumhunting. So you're not "cleared" just because you didn't target a potential PR.

[TheReverend]

wait, what? If BBT were really confirmed town (instead of just saying he is again and again) wouldn't that more likely draw the NK to him?

If he were actually confirmed town, then yes, of course.

But he's not. It's only him that keeps insisting it. It's like he's playing a different game to the rest of us where a SK doesn't exist.

As for the massclaim, I'm down with a partial massclaim.

PR or vanilla.

[TheReverend]

popcorn?

[TheReverend]

Why aren't we doing popcorn? Shouldn't we be making farside, senator and conman claim first, seeing as they missed the papi wagon?

[TheReverend]

Popcorn when referring to massclaim means when one person claims, he "passes the popcorn", or to put that in simple terms, names the next person to claim.

I makes it impossible for scum to deliberately lurk out the massclaim and go last.

[TheReverend]

Toffee knows what popcorn is, yet he didn't want to hold off his claim until later? Why was toffee in such a hurry if he understands why we do popcorn? From my pov, I'm town and I want to claim late. Why isn't toffee thinking like this? Why does someone who understands massclaiming spazz his claim early on without getting popcorn? Why didn't he want farside senator and conman to claim before him?

Toffee isn't town for shit. I can accept plot and FAQ2 as derp claims, but toffee should know better based on him knowing exactly what popcorn is.

[TheReverend]

I could be the SK. I'm not pretending that me not being scummy means I'm confirmed town. And if PoE becomes a thing, I'll happily eat rope if it serves the greater town good. Will you?

[TheReverend]

No, I hate giving myself up to be lynched.

Remember this was said guys. Don't let toffee get to lylo.

This is coming from someone who can only win if he doesn't get lynched.

I am happy to be lynched if it serves the greater town good, because I can still win even if I get lynched.

Toffee has shown his hand here.

[TheReverend]

The fact he thinks lane is a PR also hints that he's looking for PRs. I'm not. Toffee is so far removed from my line of thinking that he simply must be a different alignment to me.

toffee could have been scumhunting instead of PR hunting, which is why he didn't hit lane who he thinks is PR. He also might have hoped scum saw what he saw and took a swing for lane.

toffee begging for town cred for this is scummy as shit.

[TheReverend]

BBT, if you thought that, why didn't you Popcorn Rev instead? Far's posted to say she won't be posting today.

This is an astute post. Toffee think I'm SK yet popcorn's farside? Nope, I'm online as we claim and toffee would have passed it to me, knowing I go to farside next.

He knows I'm not SK.

[TheReverend]

@The Reverend you say that you're not looking for PRs but you commented on Wrong Song's crumbs which at least one player (me) wouldn't have noticed had you not pointed them out.

I stated the obvious regarding wrong song. I wasn't actively looking for reasons people are PRs.

[TheReverend]

VT

[TheReverend]

Holy shit loads. I'll read up shortly. Just to confirm, I'm not a PR pretending to be VT. I'm working on the basis that all PR claims are now confirmed town.

[TheReverend]

If we full claim, and the docs synch to protect the tracker, he should get two nights of action, certainly one night, and with there being only one scum and one SK, he can not only catch a VT moving at night which is a guilty, if his target didn't do anything on a night two people die, that's an inno.

I think maybe we should full claim.

[TheReverend]

I think I know who a PR is.

If I'm right, it confirms me as town because I would have killed said PR if I were scum.

PEdit - I'm not SK. I would have killed you (Can say it's WIFOM, idc. I would have)

Check out toffee flailing hard for town cred.

First of all he's obviously not scujm because he says he thought lane was a PR, and lane is alive.

The he tells us he'd have killed farside.

So because BOTH farside and lane didn't die n1, toffee can't be SK.

Tracker can track me. It would be wasted though.

Here's where toffee says that being tracked would be a waste. Actually it would clear you, assuming that is that you're not scum/SK.

I could be the SK. I'm not pretending that me not being scummy means I'm confirmed town. And if PoE becomes a thing, I'll happily eat rope if it serves the greater town good. Will you?

Here's where I say I'm prepared to be lynched in order to PoE scum.

No, I hate giving myself up to be lynched. I'm 100% town, I cannot say the same for anyone else in this game with the same level of certainty.

Aaaand here's where toffee tells us that he'll still fight his lynch even if it serves the greater town good.

Just to really ram the point home, this is a town mindset...

Stop stalling bbt.
I'm accepting that I should be lynched.

toffee is clearly an anti-town role here. I don't care if we hit scum or SK, it makes no difference to us, and if we hit a baddie today then with only one kill tonight, the docs and tracker are in great shape.

vote toffee

[TheReverend]

Reverend, I was saying I would have killed Lane in the post where you think I said I would kill Farside.

Ok it doesn't look like it, farside accused you of being SK one minute before you made this post, so it looks like the pedit was in reply to her. But on the previous page, lane also accused you of being SK, and that was 3 minutes before your post, so that pedit comment could be at either farside or lane.

I concede that point.

But the rest remains valid.

toffee, if we get to the point where there's 3 vanillas, 4 PRs, and just the SK, are you willing to be lynched?

[TheReverend]

It should be clear that toffee can't win if he gets lynched.

I can, which is why I don't care if I get lynched.

[TheReverend]

Of course we could simply track toffee, and if there aren't two kills tonight, lynch him tomorrow. If there are two kills, then toffee is cleared.

You still think tracking you is a waste toffee?

[TheReverend]

choo chooooo

[TheReverend]

Killing toffee today halves the number of night kills.

Just sayin'.

[TheReverend]

God conman just give toffee town cred for killing scum instead of a PR suspect, stop being difficult.

[TheReverend]

If people don't want to lynch toffee today, then please explain why.

[TheReverend]

It's much, much harder to find the SK than scum.

FWIW, Rev is the SK.

Hahaha! You should be a comedian.

I'm not the SK and I'll prove it when push comes to shove by self voting if my lynch is necessary.

You already made it clear you're not willing to go down quietly, even if it helps town to win.

[TheReverend]

Shush now, it'll be over soon.

You haven't once explained why you think I'm SK. I've explained why think you are.

Now cobble some shit togther in an attempt to get me lynched today instead of you. It's about your last hope.

[TheReverend]

340 - Reverend is very likely to be SK, and if not, he is scum. Most of the time, when people are hunting a SK it's because they are one or they're scum concerned with who can kill them.

Oh yeah I waved my finger around and you've locked on to that ever since.

Solid reasoning.

[TheReverend]

I also just realized that Rev is actually scum and not SK.

Which bursts my bubble a little bit. But not too much.

Haha don't let this fool y'all. I'm near certain that toffee is SK. Don't let him win.

Shame the tracker tagged me. You'd never have got me otherwise.

[TheReverend]

Also I thought ric was a doc. I wasn't SK hunting.

You know, you could leave me alive to kill toffee tonight.

I promise I'll hit him.

[TheReverend]

If toffee isn't SK, then I'm rooting for the SK.

[TheReverend]

Here's what we do.

Lynch toffee.

I'll hit farside tonight. I'll enjoy that. Docs leave her alone. If she doesn't die, she's the SK (1x shot BP). If she dies, lynch me and happy hunting.

[TheReverend]

claim - innocent child

[TheReverend]

I'm good at hunting SKs.

[TheReverend]

I straight up scum slipped earlier in the thread, that's the only reason I did the kill instead of flubber. I was paranoid that would get found eventually. Had flub killed ric, I'd be looking golden right now.

I had to claim VT, not least to ensure SK didn't hit me for a while.

I'll leave you guys to it. Good luck SK, you need it.

[TheReverend]

@toffee - idk, I think we get a lot from people's reactions to these kind of things. Scum would have anticipated this...

This was relating to papi's fakeclaim. Scum wouldn't anticipate town claiming, would they?

[TheReverend]

UNVOTE:

Aw I was gonna self hammer to teach you fuckers not to let outed scum get to L-1.

[TheReverend]

I'm scum

[TheReverend]

Nah I should've let flub do the killing

[TheReverend]

Did someone state intent to hammer?

I'm cop, don't lynch me.

[TheReverend]

Sail on tossers.