Open 627: Mexican Standoff [endgame]

[Burning Crystal]

VOTE: KainTrelpes

Let's get some wagons up in here. Major posturing by Kain in his last post.

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

Whatever!!

At least I am trying to play the game while you are just trying to distract people and picking on new players ilyvmjty.

being aggressive

does NOT mean i am fake or bad

Also your sucking up to Titus is disgusting,

happy to vote you

@KT you sound fake to death.

Fake, fake, fake. He's not distracting anybody, but you are over-reacting. I would vote you but I'm pretty sure we already are.

[Burning Crystal]

Yeah that was a bit of an overreaction, sorry.

Let's forget that and go here:

I don't like burnings reaction.

VOTE: Burning Crystal

This one is serious.

My other head was saying KT was fake, not you.

Considering you were happy joy joy about us when I was posting and immediately voted my other head, maybe people have a point about you buddying me.

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

I think Anenine must be good, because he tried to teach me how to play the game,

Why no comment after EE's attempt to teach you?

[Burning Crystal]

@KT just remember aggressive != loud necessarily. Something I'm still learning is that loud just makes you look foolish, it floods the thread and moves it nowhere, and it gives the people you "push" a good reason to ignore you. A good aggressive player speaks the words he needs to when he needs to where he needs to. Don't put all your cards on the table at once, it's ok to push one place with your eye somewhere else. Think before you post: "where does this get me?" Ask questions, but ask questions when you need answers that aren't obvious, and don't state the obvious. Spam posting just gives scum a good place to hide and begs for a policy lynch.

Please find something else to do with your time, take notes on the game or something, taking notes can actually help your reads because you can think it out on paper. I used to play like you. A lot like you. I still do a little bit at times. I think I've come a long way. Please don't post three pages a day in a game with three players if you aren't going anywhere with it.

This isn't bullying KT at all.
EE is scummy in his own right.
it looks like you're trying to buddy Anen and not EE. So why?

[Burning Crystal]

But I want to be AGGRESSIVE like all the strong players and catch scum like they can... am I not aggressive enough??

You aren't getting any bang for your buck. Your aggression is unfocused and all over the place.

it looks like you're trying to buddy Anen and not EE. So why?

For me, it looks more like a newb-tell, not a scumtell.
(Actually I'm one of the worst players to buddy. Everyone knows I care very little about getting "allies" or town credit.)

"Everybody knows" is bullshit. Absolutely unacceptable. (Don't do self-meta, it's bad for you)

I see a lot of posturing from KainTepes about being aggressive, and that's good, because evil players aren't aggressive, and that's bad, so he needs to be aggressive.
Looks like an act, which is scummy to me.
VOTE: KainTepes

To be fair, Town of Salem is probably the single worst place to learn anything about mafia, and that is possibly KT's only experience prior to this game.

[Burning Crystal]

VLA cause flu for today

Fine with EE or KT lynches ATM.

~Titus head (vla only for that head)

[Burning Crystal]

EE, you and KT need to scum hunt or we're voting you two. Both heads agree. When you were pressured, you just started whining. Show me who scum are rather than complaining that I am not doing enough.

I have been sick with a headache and then dealing with company. You weren't getting wall posts.

So hey. Drop the drama. Thanks.

[Burning Crystal]

KT, drop the all caps. That is the internet equivalent of yelling.

Why won't anyone listen to me = whining.

Now, talk. Why is Dave scum? Posts and reasons please.

[Burning Crystal]

Later. Titus you need to push in places that aren't places you shouldn't be pushing.

Where should I be pushing?

This post just screams anyone but you and KT, which makes me only want to dig in more.

[Burning Crystal]

I already posted,,

He voted for me for a stupid reason like "he is not actually aggressive he is just telling us he is aggressive" when HOW IS THAT EVEN A SCUM TELL??

It sounds just like he thought i will be a easy mislynch, which is really scummy

Don't you feel it too???

I agree with Dave, but it's not a full on tell.

People can be wrong town. That thought process never occurred to you. Vote on you, you fly off the handle.

You're still yelling.

[Burning Crystal]

I suspect Persivul a little for replacing out right after he got HEATED with EagleExtrapolated,,, but i dont know how to explain the feeling,,

More like this. There's no whining. You're lying out how you feel, which posts make you feel like that, and stating that you don't know why.

I don't agree with this post, but I can meet you half way and give you some time. If you go back to yelling and screaming and whining, I will vote you.

VOTE: EE

[Burning Crystal]

Lying out = laying out

Autocorrect is evil.

[Burning Crystal]

No it's not. SI joined the site 3 days ago, and that is the only post he made anywhere other than a signup. Absence/Flaking isn't scummy.

Thank you for being the voice of reason on this.

Join date is immaterial when you consider the possibility of an alt.

There is something else that makes flaking non alignment-indicative. Flaking on a replace for a true new player could indicate a role the player isn't ready to handle. On the other hand, if it's an alt created specifically to play this game then flaking could indicate disappointment at a boring role, by a player who does not want to get a reputation for flaking (hence using an alt). Since the possible results include both exciting and boring roles, the flake is immaterial.

Spoiler: not game related

On an aside, I'd support reporting it if it's an alt strategically dropping boring roles. I'm generally disgusted with the culture of replacing out. Yes RL can be a bitch and there does need to be a safety valve, but people should also learn how to play the roles as they come.

I disagree.

Coming soon content indicates the person is engaged. Then they said wtf and left. That's not likely an IRL flake. The only reason I'm not voting here is I hope the slot gets someone to fill it soon so I can get reads based on how he treats others and how others treat him.

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

Also, how DO you guys embed images directly into the post?

Use [ img] URL to image [ /img]. Remove the spaces.

For a neat trick if you want a webpage to load when you click an image [URL=Webpagetoload ][img ] URL to image [/img] [/url ]

For youtube vids, [youtube ]Last text to youtube video [/ youtube]

Sorry for the random replies but I didn't want to have questions spread on multiple posts.

[Burning Crystal]

Will catch up later tonight or early tomorrow.

Dinner with the husband.

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

I am reading up now. I apologize I have had on and off flu symptoms that have made posting difficult.

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

I want to policy lynch KT at this point.

I am willing to join that if it becomes a thing.

[Burning Crystal]

God just so many readwalls and jockeying.

Xtoxm is right though.

Xtoxm, I think you're town but I think Anen is too. Can we meet in the middle?

[Burning Crystal]

Sunset KT Dave and Kurio work for me.

I don't have town feels for any of them, that is if you can't join me on EE.

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

Titus, has your hydra buddy posted at all?

Once or twice.

[Burning Crystal]

@Almost50, I am not going to answer your question as written. Doing preflip associatives is bad.

@all, I really don't like Kuribo coming into attack Almost when Almost seemed to townread me pretty well, despite Almost's question being antitown.

[Burning Crystal]

VOTE: Dave

Would prefer Kurio there. His last post was crap and MKA should know better.

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

EE, I think almost50 is town.

You want to lynch Kuribo. I can do that. His last post was more of a "you got nothing on me" type scum post, rather than saying he's town.

@Xtoxm, 82 is IIoA. Yeah so what naked votes aren't alignment indicative? He took no stance on you. He has a lot of IIoA and recap.

[Burning Crystal]

I'm honestly laughing pretty hard at everyone calling KuroiXHF 'Kuribo'. They don't even have remotely the same presence in-game.

I don't know that I like our vote being on davesaz but I'll speak with Titus before deciding what to do about it.

I have a tendency to get hyperactive on day one and then burn out of a game, so I'm trying to control myself a little more. (reference: open 569)

[Burning Crystal]

Ok, someone please explain why we are WW hunting? I am tired and half brain dead.

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

@535, this still doesn't explain your confidence in no PGO or why MKA is WW.

Rather, it looks like a PGO fish.

[Burning Crystal]

Ok, well I will give a flag to TN to review this. Leaning towards an almost vote though.

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

If you believe Almost is bad town pr, why are you voting him?

[Burning Crystal]

Can you sign please? I am trying not to give RC a hard time BC we always go against each other, so it would help me to do that.

Do you know why your other head voted Almost?

~Titus (still)

[Burning Crystal]

It's not about fault, it's about figuring out wtf is going on here, MKA.

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

After that last post, I can see Almost as bad town. He said so much but dodged the question in a way I doubt scum would.

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

RC, I hate "pretty clear" especially when I am this tired and traveling.

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

I was referring to Almost when I was talking about not answering my question.

I wanna get to know Raskol.

Good night.

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

OH! My bad then. I stand corrected. Lynch me.

I think people will take you up on that Almost. Sad thing is, I think you're pretty transparently town but you've made it to where the town as a whole cannot trust you. Both town and scum can do setup spec but if you do it in a manner like you have, you force your own death. You made mistakes that I used to make as a newbie that I will talk to you about post game if you're willing to hang around. Some of the basic assumptions you've made here are 100% wrong and fueling terrible plays.

[Burning Crystal]

@Rask, Why texcat? I don't remember him well.

@Almost, It is anti-town as fuck for me to answer that. I will answer in post game or dead chat. If you're town, I give scum a road map. If you're scum, I would be assisting with your fake claim.

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

VOTE: Anenien



Dave, your hiring manager is unimpressed.

[Burning Crystal]

Hey K who shall not be called Kuribo and my perpetual thorn in my side and Rask, let's take a jump into the absurd and do this just cause I'm like totally sober drunk. (That's Titus bracing the absurd.)

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

I could but my obvtown reads are pushing Anenenien. Tex is not likely to give us reaction, so he's more of a lynch if there's nothing better to do.

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

Titusonian brain trust of town power.

Seriously, my scumreads aren't getting traction. I'm not explicitly townreading Anenien. We need wagons. Too many chefs spoils the broth.

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

Or maybe you're defending your partner texcat?

Don't break my heart Rasky. I wanna think y'all are town. Stuff like this doesn't work.

Dave and Almost are obvious town to me. You're kinda townish, I get close to wanting to follow along with you and you attack me for sheeping bigger townreads rather than actually pushing your case.

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

Rasssky.... why should we vote Texcat?

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

You can't come up with one reason why Texcat is scum? One at all?

That begs the question, why are you trying to start a new wagon on someone while avoiding talking about Anenien entirely?

I've been trying to work with you here, but you gotta give me something here.

Dave and acryon have been pretty townie lately and I see where a strong case can be made on Almost. I'm getting quite a few townreads. IF you want me to follow you, you'll need to convince me that either a) texcat is scum or b) you're townier.

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

@texcat, I don't see you as simple minded.

First, the hasty reaction with unplanned reaction fish plus Almost reaching out to immediately try to fix his blunders. Dave seems to be on the same page and trying to create wifom around who Almost should protect tonight. While they lack subtlety, the motivation is clearly townie.

Exactly texcat. There's no case or reason to vote you and thus nothing to react to. You're here present and engaging. Mka trying to push on you for no reason when they and Anen are wagoned so close to deadline is wtf.

Instead of working to persuade me, MKA jumps down my throat. It looks desperate to create a sideshow but I have been trying not to jump down n RC slot like I do every game.

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

Context Almost.

I was meaning a strong TOWN case can be made on you. The second paragraph in the second post is talking about how townie you are.

I don't care what you accept as a slot RC. I am nullreading Texcat. No amount of whining and bitching will change that. You aren't having a valid push on Texcat. You are refusing to provide a reason for your push at all.

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

I'm pushing on Texcat because neither she nor any of her predecessors have done anything that can be construed as scumhunting.
Raskol's pushing on Tex because that plus he thinks there's other stuff that's scummy, but I've seen nothing worth townreading and Raskol's big on it.
It's also flat out a better wagon than any of the other major ones.

Ok. I know I may sound hostile here but I am going to explain to you a little further what I am looking for. "Lacks scumhunting" is a buzzword. Texcat's recent posts don't really seem to be lacking scumhunting. This game is also likely multi ball or mafia plus SK which means every slot should be scumhunting even if scum.

Other stuff doesn't give me anything I can look for or anything I can see. Like nothing. Nothing at all. I want to engage and look over to try and see if we can work together and you just attack rather than engage.

I could do K who isn't Kuribo. I get a gut feeling you two like each other too much. He seems to be too peacemakery.

KT is also a decent lynch, although I think no one agrees. My townreads don't care for it at all.

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

Ok, that's something I can look at while I put dinner on.

Can you talk to me about my concerns with K buddying you or KT?

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

The ONLY PR that could've been outed here would be the PGO themselves. I'm a Weak Bodygaurd. We thus are in scenarios 5, 10 or 12. ALL 12 scenarios have Jailers and Cops, so these would not be outed by my false claim. Furthermore,

I know we don't have a Tracker

, a BulletProof or a Vig.

12
1 Town Jailer, 1 Town Cop, 5 Town Citizen,

1 Town Tracker

, 1 Town Weak Bodyguard, 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 WW Goon, 1 WW Roleblocker

Sorry, this still looks like a claim from scum. I would expect the real Bodyguard to be more familiar with the scenarios he was in. Especially if he claimed to study them.

Ok, right here. This is a null post for me. You find it scummy. I think Almost is town. The question here is Texcat scumreading bad play or taking advantage of Derp town. I have scumread bad play myself but it's the sort of thing scum love to coast on. Just because posts are useless to you, they aren't useless to your townreads IMO.

To figure out which, ask him for his reads.

@Texcat, reads please.

[Burning Crystal]

VOTE: Texcat

Now

That's what I wanted

.

I will ride this out and see where it goes for awhile if you're willing.

*peace offering*

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

Kuroi could be scum I guess.
The drunk post felt terrible and the way he reacted in 51 felt like he actually was lying about the drunk thing.
Which gives me odd feelings.
But I wouldn't scumread him remotely for 'buddying us' when I don't think that he's been buddying us much at all. Raskol and I have both been in games with him (I called the whole scumteam within 20 minutes of replacing in ) and we both got along fairly well with him so I'm not surprised that he's being friendly with us.
There's been other scummy shit that he's done though. There were posts in my last game with him where it was super clear that he was town and trying to scumhunt, and there's not anything quite so clear in this game. Would rather he be given more time but if I had to wagon it I wouldn't mind.

VOTE: Texcat

Now That's what I wanted.

I will ride this out and see where it goes for awhile if you're willing.

*peace offering*

~Titus

If you ask someone else to give you an out like you did with Klingy in 1750 I'm going to be very suspicious of you.
Preemptive warning.

Fair enough.

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

@EE, You can die now.

I don't care. I am legit not a lurker. I have like the fourth most posts in the game, and you call me a lurker. It looks like you're just pissed I am trying to bury the hatchet with someone I am scumreading.

Why would you lie?

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

Bc I feel like you've been going the easy route all game? What's up with that?

You saw YCBA. You can see Saga. I am not fighting my townreads anymore unless my townreads are getting lynched. Deal with it.

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

You are scumreading us?

Can you walk me thought that?

Who is that to?

[Burning Crystal]

It looks like you're just pissed I am trying to bury the hatchet with someone I am scumreading.

It is to you.

Can you walk me through why are you are scumreading us?

Bad phrasing. I meant to say I am used to scumreading.

I had solid town reads on your wagon. If I was scumreading you, I wouldn't be trying so hard to bury the hatchet. I would just vote you.

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

I mean my first reflex was to think that it was a typo.

I am genuinely surprised to hear that you are scumreading us.

pedit: lol that works.

I am not scumread you.

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

Friends EE. I will never think that suspecting me makes us not friends. That lurker comment you made in 628 though was crap though. Why did you call me a lurker?

Let's test Texcat v Anen v MKA and see who jumps where. Pick one?

[Burning Crystal]

Don't really care for Dave's heavy softing, a hardclaim would be more convincing. He's basically softed power in response to becoming the primary wagon whilst keeping things vague, which only really favours scum given how obvious he's made it. Forcing him into a hardclaim means if he's scum he may get countered at some point or claim something unsustainable, which is basically our goal for today, we're probably only going to lynch scum today if it's without a claim. He may be town but the way he's gone about it doesn't really look town (what 50 did is the town way), so i'd like to stay on to get a hardclaim out of him before moving back to Anen. If he's town I don't think there's any detriment to having him expand. I could also go Mad King, don't trust him and 540 reads too informed for my liking. Texcat is a low priority compromise of those 3 that i'd do if I have to.

That is a mistake IMO. Dave is obvtown for his play here. He didn't soft power role until after Almost's claim for the most part. What does getting a claim do here? All it does is help scum get more information to do their actions. Wagonning people just to have them claim is bad. Dave's play was shitty and I tried to tell him to stop with the legally blonde youtube. If you reread some of his posts, there's next to no question as to what he'd claim anyway. I would rather not say publicly in case scum are total dumb assess.

VOTE: Anenien

Scum flail 101 Anen.

@Eagle, Anen is scum flailing. A lot of his recent ISO is grabbing recent posts by major popular suspects and crying poop for no reason. He's attacking people for working together, which is anti town. He's trying to stop town cohesion. Anen completely ignores any pretense at scumhunting by ignoring what MKA said about Texcat.

[Burning Crystal]

As for MKA, I am not explicitly townreading but my gut says they aren't scum. Maybe that's me just not wanting to shit on RC every game though. I would hammer it if needed but I am so meh on doing it day 1.

[Burning Crystal]

Compare his recent posting to 223 in his YCBA ISO. Both call out those for what he thinks are shitty pushes, but Anen talks about and analyzes the Gamestate as a whole. Here is posting is much more defensive, much like Klingon's. In YCBA he didn't ignore the other wagons forming at all. In fact, he voted wagons of players who weren't suspecting him.

Compare this to Klingon's ISO that game. Klingon responded to nothing but just tried to tear down her attackers and make herself look good. that's what Anen looks to be doing here. He'd have something to say about the substance of MKA's posts if he was town most likely.

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

WHAT IS MULTIBALL

Multiple scum teams. Some call mafia and SK multiball as well. Please stop yelling.

[Burning Crystal]

Yes. Was there something in particular that you wanted me to comment on?

Yes, what do you think about Kuroi's recent (loss of brain cells / trolling KT)?

As far as I can see in your ISO, you were pushing KT a little bit early game, but then veered away from it. You haven't pushed the case hard enough or interacted with him a great deal to convince others that KT is a good lynch, or got them to agree with you. Similarly I've done the same thing and not pushed a case as hard as I should have, but to be honest, saying KT will be a good lynch, but nobody is agreeing, is all because you may or may not have provided a case for people to go on.

There's one thing saying it, there's another thing doing it.

I'm the one that was for a KT lynch earlier on in the game, not Titus. Nothing ended up happening because I haven't been here much to push for it, and he is no longer the only person I want to go after.

because that is how i always play in TOS becauase people dont listen to me otherwise!!!!!

also I THINK IT MAKES ME UNIQUE...

Some fair advide, it would be wise of you to use proper capitalization and punctuation here. This is a rather more serious community than Town of Salem will ever be. You don't need to shout to get anyone's attention.

The next best is burning crystal. This is because of the fact that largely she was very difficult to read through the thread, and at the end she changed her mind very quickly during the convo with MKA. I don't like that.

I think Titus is overcompensating for how much she usually jumps down RC's throat.

~tn5421

[Burning Crystal]

Because we, as a group, are ignoring you until you type properly.

~tn5421

[Burning Crystal]

@acyron, Dave was softing

before

the Almost wagon had traction. I think that's fueling a lot of people misreading Dave (especially Xtoxm). If Dave was softing PR only

after

Almost claimed BG it would be a problem as it would look like scum seeking survival. I get the suspicion thrown Dave's way but it's bad. I feel awkward defending Dave so hard because he doesn't want it. Maybe some of the push on Dave is Wifom protection, but since a good chunk of the game is scumreading me now, I can defend Dave without him being obvtown which he doesn't want and Dave being obvtown is bad. Xtoxm is making a mistake that how he feels is somehow objective when looking at only half the picture. #frustrating

I would totally vote Kurio. I know my support might not mean much given the current mentality against me. I have always felt the dynamic between him and MKA was wierd and I hate his lurking when we should be trying to throw together. I think MKA and I would both be ok with that. They have virtually no interaction and K has been following MKA like a lost puppy and obvtown reading him. Being scum in this scenario, the perfect play is to drop something a little scummy and leave. Lurk shit out. The other scum (SK or other team) would be much less likely to shoot you.

As for Kop, I am not as big a fan of a lynch there. As opportunistic as his posts are, I think it's town opportunism. People jump down my throat for being a decent human being and cooperating with people all the fucking time. I used to have an expression (if Titus is wagoned D1, she's usually town). That's frustrating as fuck about things but I cannot necessarily say the timing alone is scummy of Kop.

VOTE: Kurio

[Burning Crystal]

Acyron, I would rather not as Dave was softing his full role, not just being a PR generally. It would probably be more protown to lynch us than to have me out Dave's role.

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

I mean maybe, but I would think that it's non alignment indicative.

EE did try to get you to hydra with him to teach him things after all.

Not to say he isn't scum but I'm not sure that this buddying thing holds a lot of water.

For what it's worth, Xtoxm is no stranger to naked votes. It may not be alignment indicative of him, just poor play.

Both encouraging fewer votes and slower pace of game play.

IDK I'm not really enthusiastic about any votes at the moment.

I'll hard reread this soon.

VLA cause flu for today

Not that this has anything to do with the game, but how do you (or anyone else) have a flu for a day.

[redacted irrelevant to my point statements]

IDK I'm not really enthusiastic about any votes at the moment.

I'll hard reread this soon.

I'm actually in agreement. Some people look better than others, but all of them have a good poker reads. (There are obviously some that are quicker to emotion, but it's striking me more-so as newbish)

The question I have for you is that if you're not really into voting anyone, what's with your vote on Ameninen?

Agreeing to have few votes and slow game pace.

Are you a trump supporter

because that's a nice big wall you have there

I accidentally closed the tab when I did this and now I'm pissed, but I'll try it again...

Posts of Note: (largely redacted)
27 An absolutely horrid post. I can't see any post indicating fear, but even if someone is scummy, you ask the question before reaching with a vote like that.

Titus interjection:

If there are "horrid" posts, why do you later take the stance you agree with no votes?


292 Terrible post. Apathy looks unbecoming on a townie.

Titus interjection:

then why were you encouraging apathy?

Read List:
Town: Kop
Lean Town: Aneninen, Xtoxm, Davesaz, KainTepes
Null: Extrapolated Eagle, FireStarter
Lean Scum: Almost50, Mad King Ashnard
Scum: Burning Crystal, Sunset Illusions

VOTE: Burning Crystal

The only reason that I'm not voting Sunset Illusions is that I'm hoping he'll be replaced by someone active who can give me better reads. Burning Crystal is posting a lot of what I don't like, just enough to be somewhat active. I'm seeing a lot of flying below the radar.

MKA makes a joking reference to a wall post. Kurio then walls. MKA is "lean scum" despite only frivolities and agreement with MKA at this point.

Hey, Rask. How've you been?

I've been here the whole time, author of 3/4 of these posts

I kind of want to re-read you now. Now I know how to tell if you're Rask or RC, although I do think you'd save a heck whole of confusion by stamping your posts.

Buddying. Oh it's this head that's been posting all this stuff I agree with but I am scumreading. Better reread.

KuroiXHF

– Plenty of small things. He reacted to my 96 but said nothing about Mad King's similar post. I said Davesaz had been moving with the crowd all the time, but Kuroi's doing the same and he does that much more times. His 381 could be either way – it may mean genuine effort but may have come from a scum too. (I've already done something similar before and I have seen scums doing the same). But! Actually I opened some of the posts he quoted only to see... how shallow that long quote-list is.

Scum

.

Doing an entire read through was somewhat taxing, especially when I stated that I accidentally closed out the tab halfway through. As a result, I wasn't as thorough as I wanted to be. Evidently, you find that scummy. I did the read through mostly for me because I've been having issues finding out who was scummy to me or not. I'm pretty confident in what I've dug up to form my opinions and I feel the biggest finds were:

1) Voting Sunset for being inactive is a bad move.
2) Voting KT for yelling/being obnoxious is a bad move. (Although part of me just really wants to vote him and I may have difficulty resisting the urge.)
3) Burning Crystal is the best lynch for today, although I suppose I could get under Almost50.

Don't like Burning Crystal so far.

11 and 13 are the only posts with any actual scumhunting.

MKA immediately Sheeping kurio and trying to down play my ISO.

Sunset KT Dave and Kurio work for me.

I don't have town feels for any of them, that is if you can't join me on EE.

~Titus

This seems like an OMGUS and that the only thing you have against me is that I said you were a good lynch.

And other than calling you the best lynch his last post was fine.

And where do you disagree?

VOTE: Almost50

VOTE: Almost50

Both naked vote at the same time.

Your claim was just terrible. Extremely unlikely and furthermore no real pgo would claim at that point of time. I mean I guess I understand now why you felt like doing that but still.

This is the worst reaction I've ever seen...

Both put forth the same reason for voting Almost50.


These two are basically circle jerking throughout the game, and have many spam posts with each other two.

[Burning Crystal]

Acyron, I would rather not as Dave was softing his full role, not just being a PR generally. It would probably be more protown to lynch us than to have me out Dave's role.

~Titus

I thought maybe this was just common knowledge that I was somehow missing, but if what you said is the case, then let's not discuss that anymore.

That being said I'm sure you'll understand my unwillingness to trust your vouch for him unless I see it myself. Still fine with leaving him for today, but taking a closer look tomorrow.

Reread Dave's ISO supposing Dave is the furthest thing from arrogant. That's as close as I can get you.

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

@acyron, Dave was softing

before

the Almost wagon had traction. I think that's fueling a lot of people misreading Dave (especially Xtoxm). If Dave was softing PR only

after

Almost claimed BG it would be a problem as it would look like scum seeking survival. I get the suspicion thrown Dave's way but it's bad. I feel awkward defending Dave so hard because he doesn't want it. Maybe some of the push on Dave is Wifom protection, but since a good chunk of the game is scumreading me now, I can defend Dave without him being obvtown which he doesn't want and Dave being obvtown is bad. Xtoxm is making a mistake that how he feels is somehow objective when looking at only half the picture. #frustrating

I would totally vote Kurio. I know my support might not mean much given the current mentality against me. I have always felt the dynamic between him and MKA was wierd and I hate his lurking when we should be trying to throw together. I think MKA and I would both be ok with that. They have virtually no interaction and K has been following MKA like a lost puppy and obvtown reading him. Being scum in this scenario, the perfect play is to drop something a little scummy and leave. Lurk shit out. The other scum (SK or other team) would be much less likely to shoot you.

As for Kop, I am not as big a fan of a lynch there. As opportunistic as his posts are, I think it's town opportunism. People jump down my throat for being a decent human being and cooperating with people all the fucking time. I used to have an expression (if Titus is wagoned D1, she's usually town). That's frustrating as fuck about things but I cannot necessarily say the timing alone is scummy of Kop.

VOTE: Kurio

I will most likely join you in a moment on Kuro, but want to sort this first. Would you mind pointing me to Dave's softing prior to the BG claim? I don't know how but I read through and missed it still.

Why would you want a softing obvious to everyone?

I've read about this softing, but missed it. I'm not wanting to draw attention to it, because that's scummy in my eyes.

Some players lack subtlety.

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

Acyron, I would rather not as Dave was softing his full role, not just being a PR generally. It would probably be more protown to lynch us than to have me out Dave's role.

~Titus

I thought maybe this was just common knowledge that I was somehow missing, but if what you said is the case, then let's not discuss that anymore.

That being said I'm sure you'll understand my unwillingness to trust your vouch for him unless I see it myself. Still fine with leaving him for today, but taking a closer look tomorrow.

I've got ideas about the whole thing, but I'd rather not go into detail right now. If I'm thinking the same process (possibility) then other people may also be.

Thoughts on Kurio?

He doesn't even address how far up MKA's ass he is while supposedly scumreading him and instead tries to deflect attention.

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

Reread Dave's ISO supposing Dave is the furthest thing from arrogant. That's as close as I can get you.

~Titus

How are you reading MKA?

Is this peace keep offering still in existence?

Reading through the whole of that wall post, you are hinting that you are suspicious of MKA and Kuroi, or is that peace offering only related to the RadiantCowbells part of that hydra?

Both. I hate the unnatural relationship between MKA and Kurio. I just know that MKA is sick of dying day 1 and N1 and I am prone to scumreading him and being wrong and tricking myself so I am reluctant to push there unless I am really really sure MKA is scum. I am not objecting to others scumreading MKA. So to be fairest, I am not scumreading MKA but not townreading them either.

[Burning Crystal]

My read on kuroi this game has consisted of "if he was scum he would be better than this right?"

So what you're saying is that he's too scummy to be scum. I disagree.

@Kop1: Our heads are listed in our signature.
@Kop253: AtE is fairly common on Town of Salem. They only have 40 seconds of discussion time per day, and you have to play hard and fast to get the most out of it.
@KT: You should play at EM sometime, its a slower meta and objectively better than ToS.

The next best is burning crystal. This is because of the fact that largely she was very difficult to read through the thread, and at the end she changed her mind very quickly during the convo with MKA. I don't like that.

I think Titus is overcompensating for how much she usually jumps down RC's throat.

~tn5421

I want to know what it was that made you vote for Burning Crystal, which you could only see after your convo with mad king.

lol.

This quote doesn't really make any sense. Allright I will repost what I wanted to say :

I think Titus is overcompensating for how much she usually jumps down RC's throat.

~tn5421

I want to know what it was that made you vote for

texcat

, which you could only see after your convo with mad king.

I don't know why Titus followed MKA onto texcat. He's not in my scum pile or anything. For that matter I'm not scumreading Kuroi either.

I would like to see our vote placed on MKA or Davesaz. I am willing to compromise for KT or FireStarter.

~tn5421

[Burning Crystal]

Only with friends. And it is better than ToS. If you can't handle that then that's just too bad. (i prefer bob's chatmafia.net)

~tn5421

[Burning Crystal]

@760 - 770 (Kuroi's posts)

Ok first things first. This post is atrocious in the amount of fenceshitting and garbage in it.

First, you claim that all my reads are based in what is easy (opening 760) while simultaneously trying to limit the lynch to all the popular wagons but yourself by ignoring the thread's recent developments (770). You simultaneously attack my reads for being easy while I'm being voted for the unpopularity of my opinions. Trend shifts against me once I explain (as much as I could) and you try to artificially force it back.

Second, you attempt to cast me telling Dave to knock it off on the soft claiming as OMGUSing someone (not sure who). That's a pretty big stretch.

Third, you do a burden shift on Acryon stating that "if he had such a problem he'd say it then". This is abundantly hypocritical at best given none of your complaints in your wall were mentioned contemporaneously as things occurred. The fact is not everyone mentions every thought that comes into their head. Even Miss Posts a lot.

Fourth, you're really wish washy with your vote and you've begun vote shopping for a new wagon already. On the one hand, you say you're tempted to vote Fire Starter (765) but in your next post you state that Fire Starter shouldn't even be an option.


@ChilledTea,

I voted Texcat to let that wagon possibly shake out after RC posted a case that possibly could have been valid and got the fuck away from the buzzword crap. I wanted to see what people would do with that and give RC a little bit to help my partner give me an opinion on him. 623 in particular is what I was referring to.

Given MKA's recent post however, I'm a little askance about that. He's twisting how this head feels about him in order to paint any future attempt to vote him in a bad light. Oh well, the other hydra head isn't townreading our slot either. Better try to paint the dissonance as scummy.

Again, they both seem to move very in sync. They both attempt to turn the attention of the game of the hydra after more people vote MKA.

MKA being sheepish about the vote on me is also not traditional about RC in any way shape or form. If he scumreads me, he goes full tilt in. The last game we played together, he was so convinced I was scum he got us both mod killed in his dogged pursuit. He doesn't have a history of awkwardly pursuing people.


I need to speak with TN but I'll likely be moving our vote to MKA. Let him crow about how scummy it is. I give up.

[Burning Crystal]

VOTE: Mad King Ashnard

[Burning Crystal]

Fairly sure that she's not town now, yeah.

That was actually me, but, you know, ok.

Eh.

VOTE: Kuroi

So you're really going to let MKA get away with a self-meta exclusive defense? I don't care if he didn't mean it in earnest or whatever, it's still complete and utter horseshit and strong justification for not moving our vote ever.

I am

really

tempted to vote Fire Starter now. I still see his posts elsewhere on MafiaScum. I'm going to

ask the mod

to give him a prod and see if he can do something useful.

Fire Starter is not within prod range

Fire Starter has requested replacement.

Either flaking out as scum or leaving because of being uninterested in the game. Right now we can't decide which one.

And we won't decide, because it's a null.

I don't think we saw more than 3 posts from Fire Starter, so I'm going to go with 'uninterested'.

Am I the only one who thinks that KT is an alt and is doing this on purpose??

I don't think so, no. I feel like he is genuinely frustrated and doesn't know how to proceed. It's still null though, and could just as easily be scum frustration as town frustration.

~~~~


Oh....Oh my god.

Is KT

making a case?

~tn5421

[Burning Crystal]

How are YOU reading this? This post is saying, "Last time I was lynched day one, I'm town and people want to vote me today. I AM TOWN." It's simply illogical.

You

honestly

think this was a genuine statement from him? No one in the world that has played more than a single game of mafia would believe that is a logical statement, so why would you think he was genuinely proposing that?

Yes, especially since I'm confident that original post came from RC and not Rask.

This makes even less sense. I have played a good handful of games with RC and he has never proposed something this asinine. No one who's played more than a game would.

Yawn.
I've played a good handful of games with you and I've never been a major candidate for a lynch facing deadline on day 1 before.
Do you agree or disagree that Titus disappearing from the game when she was scumreading me and her partner coming in and voting us is sketchy as fuck?

I have work you know. I didn't disappear. I didn't post anywhere else.

I also didn't have a hard townread on you. That should be pretty clear from the conversation we had. I just wasn't scumreading you and then later things happened that caused me to change my mind and my hydra partner didn't want Kuroi for some reason.

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

We've been told we'd see big posts from various people for a while now, and not one of them has delivered. What makes you any different, MKA?

~tn5421

[Burning Crystal]

Feeling a little green at the moment. Tn will be taking point for awhile. Hopefully just the day.

Being sick is an xpost on all games when I finish.

Whatever TN says, I roll with.

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

VOTE: Kuroi

I don't have the time or the health to put together a long ass wall like one of the heads of Mad King has done. I just don't. I can actually highlight reasons why I am town and give reads. I am getting wagoned for unifying town wards scum lynches and it sucks. I am tired of being wagoned for telling town the smart play. I encourage town to try and unify, using my vote in that manner and I get wagoned for being too agreeable. This wouldn't be a problem if Anen was town. It just wouldn't.

Then the wagon really takes off when I highlight mka and kuroi are scum. Not a coincidence.

No one else said let's get town to unify but me. Scum are doing jack shit but flood the game and refuse to vote each other. I have found 3 of them.

Almost50 and Dave are obviously town. Same with Xtoxm. If we could please get behind one of my three suspects. I would like to think there's some hope for us and that site meta doesn't encourage just sitting on your ass.

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

Who do you think is a better place to vote then? You haven't really pushed much at all. Kop's no lynch comment is pretty scummy, I agree with Aneninen there. You also haven't tried to vote us at all, and I am the one counter wagon that might exist to you. Do you have strong town feels on us?

why are you saying your lynch won't bode well for town, as if you're not town?

Who do you think is scum and why?

[Burning Crystal]

Intent to hammer.

Texcat explicitly dodged answering about his read on our slot, which I am not a fan of. His posts sound defeatist.

@Kop, you only suggested no lynch after Texcat wagon took off. If you were so concerned about information and stopping claims, I feel you'd have a different reaction to almost's claim than gee Dave looks bad if almost is scum. This stance of fewer claims is very new.

[Burning Crystal]

Why did you hammer when people were still talking Kurio?

[Burning Crystal]

It looks like grandstanding. He only unvoted after the hammer and being told it's hammer.

P-edit: KT not Kurio

[Burning Crystal]

It looks like grandstanding. He only unvoted after the hammer and being told it's hammer.

P-edit: KT not Kurio

It's possible he doesn't understand given his stated lack of familiarity with MS rules? But your note is worth considering.

I'm ready to receive the flak I am, but we're up against deadline and we've gone around and around. This day needs to end.

We had like a full a day and clearly plenty of active people that could hammer later.

Last time I let something go like that, the slot turned out tobe scum.

[Burning Crystal]

Because Kuroi is likely scum. He's probably a scum roleblocker or something.

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

VOTE: Acryon

My scumread on Kuroi was wrong, so I should probably reevaluate my reads. What I do know is that Anen was right on Texcat being town, so I will lend my support.

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

You thought dave was most likely to get NK'd?

Yes. He soft-claimed a PR, and I read him as town with more certainty, and now I KNOW he is town regardless of being a PR or not.

At least we know Davesaz is town if Almost is really a Bodyguard

This is true, and I am begrudgingly accepting the latter at this point.

It's likely true, but not 100% true.

Scum Dave team role blocks almost creates a false positive. That would be setups 5 and 12. I think Dave is obvtown but Almost town doesn't confirm Dave town.

[Burning Crystal]

Who do you think is scum Acryon?

[Burning Crystal]

No. Weak means you die if you target scum. A roleblocker targeting you means you target no one, so you get no result.

[Burning Crystal]

How does 93 goad PRs?

[Burning Crystal]

@Kop, you scum? A jailer suspicious of Almost50 still would likely not jail him. A weak bodyguard is a self resolving problem. Either Almost outs who he jailed every night and is role blocked constantly or he gives information by his survival.

@Aneninen, why are you wanting to assume two scumteams?

[Burning Crystal]

VOTE: Aninen

Glad to see the similar viewpoint. Also makes me wonder why Aninen's wagon didn't take off yesterday though.

[Burning Crystal]

I can see there goes the quickwagon.
Examine that Tomorrow.
I bet I get dead by the time I get home.

Eww..others did it so it's ok for me? No. No one assumed it for the most part although there was a tinkle of WW hunting that was stopped.

Your scumread today and someone you heavily pushed yesterday are at the front of your wagon, and yet you're bitching about a quickhammer? Looks like your scumreads aren't all that real.

~Titus (all posts today have been me)

[Burning Crystal]

You expect the Queen of VCA not to analyze wagons?

That's the story you're going with?

And if I die, no one else would do it?

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

Wow, when I highlight your narrative sucks and has no plausibility, you vote me crying "scumslip" right.

Mobile post doesn't excuse pursuing absolute bullshit. You're trying to use mobile post as a defense to having scummy thoughts and pushing narrative to save your own bacon.

Mobile post maybe excuses typos.

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

Btw, I could've also gone for KT except they're being voted by chilled themselves. I need REASONS to believe someone is town/scum, and if I don't get any then I most certainly will follow my own gut/reasoning.

They won't be coming soon, all Aneninen has done is quotewall to make it look like he's more active and involved than he really is.
I can't believe people are following his crappy votes with even worse votes and none of it seems to deserve any attention or notice whatsoever?

Naked votes don't fly outside of RVS, guys, so why don't you try doing something original instead of following scum around like a bunch of brain-dead pidgeons?

VOTE: Aneninen

VOTE: Acryon

My scumread on Kuroi was wrong, so I should probably reevaluate my reads. What I do know is that Anen was right on Texcat being town, so I will lend my support.

~Titus

This post feels wrong........ you have hardly shown any suspicion on acryon so far,, it feels like you are making an excuse to put your vote somewhere??

VOTE: Burning CRYSTAL

i am sorry if i cannot post very good today........ still depressed right now..... but i will try my best....!!

Would you mind elaborating, once you feel better?
I don't see it, personally.

Good finding, KainThraddash!
I bet if I asked about the jump from BurningCrystal on me after that post, I'd be discredited once more.

And I bet that if you posted relevant content instead of a bunch of assumptive statements with no corroborating evidence, people that matter might actually believe you. Unfortunately, this is something you not only seem to not possess, but a concept you appear to not understand.

[Burning Crystal]

And that's what I think was a scumslip.
It sounds as if you know that I'll flip town.

You're gonna have to explain that to me. I see Titus saying she'll analyze your wagon. That applies regardless of your alignment. If you were to flip scum (you won't, I can tell that much), then the wagon would be useful, especially for finding town. If you were to flip town (you will), then the wagon is still useful, for finding scum in particular.

Firstly, I don't think they'd have pointed it out that they'd VCA my wagon later if they scumread me for real.
Secondly, their reaction. Check out their 1069 once more. They did NOT care about my post (actually nor my content at all) – that post had one single goal: discrediting me. [1]

#Anen: I take it back.

I don't think Ranger was affected my post as for her reads.
Also, why are you so worried? It's clear that lynching you would be a terrible idea right now. (We'll see later whether your claim is real and if so, you need not worry.)

They won't be coming soon, all Aneninen has done is quotewall to make it look like he's more active and involved than he really is.
I can't believe people are following his crappy votes with even worse votes and none of it seems to deserve any attention or notice whatsoever?

More discrediting. I'm not surprised.
Also, calling everyone voting for you terrible is another scumtell. Firstly, I don't think my posts are the only reasons for voting for you. Secondly, you're totally ignoring the fact that you were wagoned Yesterday. [2]

Naked votes don't fly outside of RVS, guys, so why don't you try doing something original instead of following scum around like a bunch of brain-dead pidgeons?

VOTE: Aneninen

Good. You started insulting me. It works on many players, I know, but no, you won't make me upset. You're attacking the player instead of the posts, which is scummy.
You're acting as if the votes for you had been RVS-es. Palpable misrepresentation of the events.
And one more thing. Repeating the vote. It makes my wagon look bigger than it really is. I know that trick. [3]

Good finding, KainThraddash!
I bet if I asked about the jump from BurningCrystal on me after that post, I'd be discredited once more.

And I bet that if you posted relevant content instead of a bunch of assumptive statements with no corroborating evidence, people that matter might actually believe you. Unfortunately, this is something you not only seem to not possess, but a concept you appear to not understand.

More discrediting. More insults. As if I hadn't posted anything relevant. [4]

Why would scum roleclaim midway through day 1 with no pressure whatsoever? An unnecessary gambit. His "fake-claim" actually would be extremely courageous at that point.

Most of those players claimed because of being pressurized.

1: Oh really, and what is your source for this claim? Or are you just flinging shit to see what sticks?

2: I didn't call them all terrible, I told them to provide reasoning for being on the wagon. Something I should have done yesterday when our wagon started up in the first place.

3: Posts that contain a vote tag and nothing else are baseless votes, regardless of what you say. I didn't realize Titus snuck in a vote against you. Believe me, with how much you've been deflecting and not answering questions we won't need silly tricks like that to see this wagon through.

4: For someone so defensive over his supposed contributions, you sure are hesitant to point out what those contributions actually are.

~tn5421

[Burning Crystal]

Almost, Ranger is being a dumbass. His reads suck and it's pretty blatantly clear he hasn't read the setup. It seems like the town is coming to the place I was two days ago. Almost and Dave are obvtown but not confirmed.

Seems like my town reads yesterday were right. One of my scumreads was wrong. Verdict, let's get Anen started back up and see what the fuck happens.

Or Almost you could bitch about no one doing anything?

[Burning Crystal]

*town minus Ranger

I don't think any scum would need to push you Almost. Ranger's just dumb town.

I realized that came out really awkward in my frustration.

[Burning Crystal]

@Kop, Really, scumreadung all the major wagons? That's pretty convenient.

@Aninen, I don't do VCA until a scumflip. It's pretty well documented actually.

You're not even stating what the scumslip is but just repeating that over and over. That is a discrediting strategy.

I sheeped obvtown Almost and Dave onto your wagon day 1. They were claimed PRs. The only place for scum to attack was me. There was a huge wagon on my slot that no one could provide any reason for. Pretty big indication it's town being punished for a vote. You whine about being discredited but you're just caught scum and yes I give zero credit to scumreads who only whine about their perception after being wagoned for the most part.

@Xtoxm - Why did you think outing you suspected I was a VT was a good idea? I was hoping to have scum think I was the tracker/cop and draw more bullets not less. There's a missing kill. I was the logical jail choice (given the jailors scumreads). For any scumteam to miss a kill, they'd have to be dumb or desperate. Dumb leaves KT or Aninen (thought he could fake a case on me) or KT. Desperate leaves Aninen or MKA or a partner of theirs.

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

Yes. While its theoretically possible there is no second kill, the odds are 1/12. So I am assuming two kills meant to take place.

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

The individual chances for town, 3p, and scum based kill sources are:
2nd Scum Team: 1/3
3P Serial Killer: 1/3
Town Based Vigilante: 1/6
Town based undirected Kills (Paranoid Gun Owner): 1/6
No extra kill sources: 1/12

^^ From the wiki

Oh wow Kop jumps on. Not a big shock. Nice reaction test Tea.

[Burning Crystal]

Kuroi was never going to jail a weak bodyguard claimer. That's stupid and anti-town for reasons explained previously.

That means I was jailed most likely. The rest of the deductions are self explanatory.

Dual up kills on Kuroi or scum tried to shoot me are the most plausible options given Vig does not exist with Almost present. Pgo is rare as well.

[Burning Crystal]

Missing kill?

Yes. While its theoretically possible there is no second kill, the odds are 1/12. So I am assuming two kills meant to take place.
~Titus

WAS?

...and I was wagoned because of this post.

There's a good question.
If we assume two scum teams, where's the other Nightkill?

(Before asking, I made it clear in 1068 that I included a possible SK too.)

How exactly do these add up?

By the way...

You expect the Queen of VCA not to analyze wagons?

@Aninen, I don't do VCA until a scumflip. It's pretty well documented actually.

And how do THESE add up?

You suggested two scumteams after the fact tried to go oh SK is possible too.

I do always analyze wagons. My patented VCA does not come until Day 3 with a scumslip. Pretty well known on that.

[Burning Crystal]

Now, if you're going to lynch me for being the only fucker in here who reads an open setup wiki, do it already.

[Burning Crystal]

Oh I meant make a case on Burning Crystal. I read that post and I agreed with it initially but I have a gut feeling that acryon maybe town.

My case about BurningCrystal has too been posted before. See eg. 1068, 1070, 1096, 1106.
Some highlighting:
– They jumped on me for a silly reason (which is not essentially scummy), but at a point when they hoped I'd be quickwagoned (this is much more scummy)
– They scumslipped in 1067 and their reaction in 1069 confirmed that.
– Most of their discussion with me was about to discredit me, which is a scum strategy I've seen plenty of times before.
– Also, they were a possible lynch on Day1. We ended up lynching TexCat, and I find it very strange that noone focuses on the other major wagons of Yesterday.

Exactly what it sounds like? What's not to get? I'm a frequent nightkill. Scum usually fear me. Sometimes, it is based off of past game experience, if the scum have played with me before and fear my talents from that game. Other times, it's because I've earned the respect of the scum in the current game in spite of no prior record. In either case, I still die early and often.

The more times you post how town you are the more FoS you get from me.

Titus lurked out most of D1 which is a towntell for her, she has no reason to buddy me in the way she has given my history of not working with her, and my general level of mislynchability I think she would want me as a lynch option were she scum and she's effectively ruled out that option or at least made it difficult for her to change that stance. Also when asked to claim at L-1 on D1 she pretty much VT softed (by not claiming), which again is a good indication of town.

Lurking is null at best. It can happen because of RL reasons and/or it can be faked easily. Softing VT is not an alignment tell either. (Actually, that may make sense as scum so as to avoid a stray SK/other team Nightkill if we have any of those factions. Scums, if I understand the Setup well, are aware of that piece of info, on the other hand.)

"It sounds as if you know I'll flip town" isn't a case
"And I can see a clear scum motivation for removing me. I'm a slow player; the more time I spend in the game the surer my reads are.
" How about you stop with the self-congratulatory garbage and focus on the game, instead of making the "I'm on mobile" excuse even thinner than it already is?
"Now I'm sure that you've scumslipped!" This is a red herring, as you never explained to anyone's satisfaction why/how we 'scumslipped'. "you 'know' i'll flip town" doesn't count, as an unsubstantiated statement.
"Firstly, I don't think they'd have pointed it out that they'd VCA my wagon later if they scumread me for real." I don't think you understand Titus anywhere near as much as you think you do.
"Secondly, their reaction. Check out their 1069 once more. They did NOT care about my post (actually nor my content at all) – that post had one single goal: discrediting me. " Your reply is so utterly lacking in anything resembling substance that most players will simply categorize it as either you flailing or you omgusing. You'll have to do better than that.
"More discrediting. I'm not surprised." As I'm showing in this very post, it's not as if your content is worth the space it's written on.
"Also, calling everyone voting for you terrible is another scumtell. Firstly, I don't think my posts are the only reasons for voting for you. Secondly, you're totally ignoring the fact that you were wagoned Yesterday. " Mutually exclusive statements. How can I call the votes on me crap if I was unaware there were votes on me? This is the kind of faulty logic that has been going into your posts.
"Good. You started insulting me. It works on many players, I know, but no, you won't make me upset. You're attacking the player instead of the posts, which is scummy." I was expressing my displeasure at the gamestate and with you. I insult people all the time. You're going to have to get over it.
"You're acting as if the votes for you had been RVS-es. Palpable misrepresentation of the events." When over half the votes on me are naked, I will treat them as RVS votes. You're the one misrepresenting here.
"And one more thing. Repeating the vote. It makes my wagon look bigger than it really is. I know that trick." That was actually a mistake on my part, I didn't realize Titus had already moved our vote onto you.
"More discrediting. More insults. As if I hadn't posted anything relevant. " See this post. Anything relevent that you posted isn't exactly useful.
"For example these two sentences of you. Instead of showing that you're actually interested in my posts you threw out a question and added a discrediting sentence instantly." Maybe if you'd stop acting like your shit is gold, I wouldn't have to call you on it.
"There were plenty of things posted about you Yesterday. Yet again, you're ignoring the fact that I actually do have a case against you. You're acting all the time as if I were a player shouldn't be listened to. That's called discrediting. " What case? All I see are a bunch of unconnected, unsubstantiated suspicions about my slot in general. It isn't even worthy of being called a case.
"I don't believe you at all. Neither of you seem to be the kind of players being unable to talk to each other about your thoughts." You do realize that work tends to get in the way of proper communication, right? I'm back to 40+ hours a week with my job and I'm pretty sure Titus' caseload hasn't fallen.
"As for my vote for Acryon. I had explained my scumread on him clearly on Day1 and you act as if I had never done so." Please link to this, if it's more than just 946
"Apart from throwing shyt at me what else have exactly you done Today?" I've attempted to get my scumread lynched, what have you done?
"Also, Titus is said to be the VCA-master (actually she is) and she hasn't done anything with any of the Day1 VCs." Just because she hasn't publicly posted a bunch of stuff on VCA day 2 doesn't mean a damn thing. Titus is the kind of player that gets stronger as the game goes on. Don't expect explcit VCA until AT LEAST day 3. But you knew that already, didn't you?

My partner said it best: "You're not even stating what the scumslip is but just repeating that over and over. That is a discrediting strategy."

In conclusion: Stop wasting my time.

I am sorry but I just did such a quick 180 on my reads regarding BC.

I am now so close to thinking she is scum. Like 90% sure.

Would you mind guiding me through your thought process here?

Now, if you're going to lynch me for being the only fucker in here who reads an open setup wiki, do it already.

I'm getting flashbacks of Open 559, jesus. Except it's worse this time.

Because I was from mobile, as I said.
But then, someone STATED that it's not an excuse, oh wait, wasn't it YOU?
Yeah, sure, everyone seems to know better what I'm actually doing IRL, whether I have 2 spare minutes for a thought I don't want to forget while I'm working and focusing my mind on something entirely different or I'm scum and posting a silly question and faking all the time.

It's called notepad, try it out sometime. Still not an excuse.

@1197: Have you ever played with Titus before? She never does VCA before day 3 beyond impressions.

~tn5421

Sorry for the slip.
~tn5421

[Burning Crystal]

Titus head VLA tomorrow.

All complaints can be forwarded to my 30th birthday division, where they will be ignored.

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

Something something lynch titus.

This is what RC slot does every game as scum. See Viva Gloria in Open 523. She gets away with it to.

@Whoever suggested lynch all liars.

Fuck you. You start with the world as a whole to do setup spec, then add info from your townreads.

Info as a whole says there's likely two kill sources. Then combine with BG and Dave softing investigative.

Also notice Anen and MKA are vote parking and lurking.

Lynch Titus and tn. Then town doesn't have a brain. They aren't trying because they know intelligence is scumread and lurking gets men don't care to lynch.

The best move for us is

VLA two days

Make those fuckers post reads.

[Burning Crystal]

I am sorry but I just did such a quick 180 on my reads regarding BC.

I am now so close to thinking she is scum. Like 90% sure.

Would you mind guiding me through your thought process here?

Why do you care about the setup so much? Your close mindedness regarding the setup makes me believe you have more information than me. I don't think you are vanilla town and I don't think you are town.

Such strange theories regarding Kuroi and frankly some of them just very strange. Like unless you were blocked you couldn't really have realistically known that Kuroi targeted you; but you are VT right?

And then the strange insistence that there are 2 scum teams out of which one consists of Anen and MKA. I don't even see how anyone can come to this weird conclusion and frankly I would be even more confident that you are scum if you were right in your theory.

So you're suspicious of things titus has done. Lovely.

@1230: So what you're saying is that you haven't got a reply for the questions I directed to you.

Something something lynch titus.

This has basically been the entire game.

And I'm sick of it.

~tn5421

[Burning Crystal]

I've got Anen and MKA as scum with Chilledtea, Ranger, Kain and Kop as PoE possible scum.

Dave, Almost, Xtoxm, Acryon are town and I don't see myself voting for them unless TN feels a strong desire to lynch them and consults with me first and gets on the same page. (If I wasn't hydraing, I'd say I'd never vote them).

@Acryon, I disagree on the "responsible" thing being not to speculate. That's part of the reason I feel intelligence is scumread. By figuring out what must exist, you can figure out what claims can or cannot happen and therefore what must be true. You realize what happened when I posted my setup? No one tried to say it was wrong, people went straight to scumslip rather than giving feedback. That tells me I was right.

Oh and to whoever asked, what

scum

says I was in jail oh by the way there's a missing kill? It doesn't happen.

@MKA, Bullshit on us starting it. We had a scumread on you. That doesn't justify a petulant attitude where scumhunting stops. Yet, that's perfectly convenient for you. Vote park someone you have a history with and blame

them

for your inability to scumhunt. That's EXACTLY RC's playbook from the last game we played together. She vote parked me since Day 1 when I was wrong on a read and you expect me to buy RC has nothing to do with this? Despite posting elsewhere under the same alt?

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

@Acroyn that's where you're wrong. Even if we go with Ranger's ridiculousness that Almost is scum, we can conclude there's a weak BG in the setup. Why? Because if there was no weak BG and someone had a role that conflicted, they would have said so (and just not specified what it was). So we can make that deduction straight away. I can see a hypothetical silence on a CC if they were the weak bg but that seems farfetched.

So we are in setups that only have a weak BG. That much is pretty clear.

[Burning Crystal]

Ooh, KT reads. That gives us something which might be interesting to talk about.

Please point to some specific things that you find scummy, that is to say examples of things your scum reads are posting and why you think those posts make them scum.

DID YOU READ MY POST ON CHILLEDTEA,, I TOOK A LONG TIME TO WRITE MY OPINOIN INTO WORDS,, WHAT DOY OU THINK???

Kt , you want to sort Anen and annoy your scumread?

*points to Anen wagon*

I don't bite if you're town.

[Burning Crystal]

@Acryon Wrong again.

If we presume there is a BG in the setup, we can presume that only the following setups are valid.

5
1 Town Jailer, 1 Town Cop, 6 Town Citizen, 1 Town 1s PGO, 1 Town Weak Bodyguard, 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Mafia Follower

10
1 Town Jailer, 1 Town Cop, 6 Town Citizen, 1 Town Weak Bodyguard, 2 Mafia Goons, 1 Mafia Godfather, 1 SK
12
1 Town Jailer, 1 Town Cop, 5 Town Citizen, 1 Town Tracker, 1 Town Weak Bodyguard, 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 WW Goon, 1 WW Roleblocker


We can mostly eliminate 5 because of HOW Almost was targeted for his claim. Very little said oh Almost is rolefishing and just flailing about until he hits PRs. He was voted for his claim being premature, meaning that people didn't doubt his PGO claim. The only person who could have been going after Almost as a PGO is Ranger but that would require almost to be both the bodyguard and the PGO. So, given no one can be the PGO. Scenario 5 is gone.

10 and 12 both have a missing kill, which is precisely my point. I was jailed because of a missing kill, my wagon recycles with scum when I vote scum. When I voted acyron (to see my reads), no one thought anything of it. When I vote Anen, then the wagon starts. The wagon on me is one of scum desperation.

@KT, Because he's more concerned with his own hide than scumhunting. He basically yells poop at any argument he disagrees with and OMGUSes anything with a pulse. A wagon with myself, Almost and Dave (all pretty likely town) voted him. The response was to immediately wagon our slot. Anen hasn't done much in giving reads or propelling the game forward. All he's done is cry scumslip and attack credibility. He's letting others attempt to fill in what this mysterious scumslip is (hint: it doesn't exist). That's what Anen and MKA have done all game long. They've just sat back and let others fill in the blanks.

The Texcat lynch is another example (which we weren't on). It was just a last second wagon out of nowhere. The people who are suspected as being my partners also weren't on that wagon. They're not even trying to form a coherent narrative anymore. It's just oooh throw shit and see what sticks.

That's Textbook RC play.

[Burning Crystal]

@Almost,

Me being protected is also frankly pretty easy to deduce.

First, Kuroi likely jailed his scumread.
Jailing a bodyguard claim in this setup is stupid, like I mentioned.
So, I was jailed.

There's a missing kill (which I explained above)

That leaves either a) both scum kills shot the jailor or b) I was shot and protected

Both scum shooting the jailor with terrible reads makes zero sense.

Thus, I was shot and protected.

[Burning Crystal]

CHILLEDTEA IS SCUM!!!!!!! VOTE CHILLEDTEA,,

VOTE: ChilledTEACUP

Yeah, I appreciate the assist but this is at best a compromise lynch for me. I don't think scum dramatically push Texcat with me being available as a mislynch. Is it possible? Sure. Probably means I townread his partner. It's not a road I want to pursue.

[Burning Crystal]

@Almost,

There's a spot on the Anen wagon waiting for you.

Although I know you're not going to announce your target (nor do I want you to reply to this beyond acknowledged), I think checking me is the best for the town.

:nod:

[Burning Crystal]

@Dave, That's not the argument I was making. Did I say I was confirmed town? No. I didn't. The only reason this is an issue is people were arguing that my intelligence was a scumslip.

Sure, a kill block might have happened though.

Is it likely? No. With you crumbing and Almost crumbing, that's likely where the blocks went.

Being in jail and having the wagons like they are just makes me likely town and not a scumslip like scum are pushing.

[Burning Crystal]

@Ranger, You seem to know Anen is reaching and fabricating things. Why no vote on Anen?

1315 and 1318 - I'm not quoting all those.

Yeah, the difference between you and me is that I'm actually commenting on things and discussing reads other than you. You're not. Acryon was listening to the points against his read and commenting. You're just doing verbal poop. You're also not being voted for a single post. Not at all. I've said why you've been voted several times.

Having two solid scumreads and then a poe pool of possible scum is not assuming a three person scumteam. Rather, it's assuming you two are aligned and the other scum (whatever faction) should be found in that pool. Your first scumslip theory that you latched on was proven bad, so now you're trying to force a square peg into a round hole.

I find the end to 1318 particularly amusing since I actually stand up to government bureaucrats as my day job. Kinda scary what happened in Southern California though. I play mafia to forget that shit though.
The setup thing has been explained so I'm not going to belabor those points.

Your post conviently doesn't respond to people realizing my motivations but to whine and complain. What are your thoughts on Kain Tepes. Chilled Tea?


Oh and also, your last post is particularly bad. Softing but not softing cop and trying to change the motivation to being a rolefish when I never have been voting you for that.

Your last posts are trying to see what sticks on us rather than engaging people.

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

Kuroi claims jailer?
Please find me where Kuroi claimed jailer.

And yeah, I don't like Kop much at all. I'm semi-townreading Ranger and I'd basically follow her vote anywhere.
Will vote him pending more info on Kuroi's jailer claim.

Yes, this is scum playing dumb.

RC alt-slipped and has been making a good chunk of the posts today and now the slot is trying to play dumb as to who is dead. The first thing hydras (if town) should be talking about is reads and where the game is.

I'm not going to move to Kop unless it's the last five seconds or there's zero chance of Anen happening.

Kop could be on the other team but meh, this posting by RC is shit. Would rather quickwagon this.

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

Even if I do come back to the Kop Wagon there seems to be a lack of interest from others. Anen? dave?? BC??? acryon????

OK, nvm. But you do realize if Kop flips town it will be you for the auto-lynch. Right, chilled?? You started this wagon just as you were the one behind the texcat wagon. And BOTH counter wagons to ones on BC.

Alright then..

VOTE: Kop

So much *facepalm* here.

The process each day has been, Aneninen wagon. BC wagon. Kop basically refuses to see Aneninen as scum and knows I'm town and starts a third wagon which goes to lynch because the same people who vote me want the third wagon.

Yeah, excuse me while you blame the leader for that. *shrug*

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

*Kop = chilledtea

[Burning Crystal]

*Ok I'm going to suspend disbelief that your Anen's scum partner for a second. We're going to talk in abstract variables for a second, rather than labels to remove emotion.

1) If a wagon has largely confirmed town on it and doesn't take off, why do you think that is? In the abstract?

[Burning Crystal]

Neither scum nor the remaining townies are interested in the aforementioned wagon for various reasons.

Now, if players immediately jump on and attack people sheeping confirmed town while largely ignoring the substance of said player's posts or engaging the conftown who pushed the wagon? What does that tell you?

[Burning Crystal]

Look, I'm wierd. You know I'm pushing the Anen wagon. It's what I'm trying to persuade you of.

I'm asking you in the abstract to remove emotion from the equation to get at how you think and force you to look at situations.

Please answer the question.

[Burning Crystal]

1) I do feel like he's been a slimly leading git. Hence the comments about him OMGUSing everything in site. He just types POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP or uses gifts to make melodrama out of those disagreeing.

2) Kop not fighting the lynch in a scummy way likely means he's town... :S Thus making him a bad lynch. Anen being scum makes him a good lynch. Kop is PoE would lynch if it avoided a no lynch but I wouldn't feel good about it. That's my read on him.

3) Again, you have been caught in a position where you don't want to actually be put in a position where you would be forced to say Anen is scum and abandon the exercise entirely. Then OMGUS me for suggesting it. If you had issue with me engaging in the abstract, you would have objected to the first question and not the second question.

I don't consider myself to be a highly emotional scumhunter, while I acknowledge emotions play a factor. Emotions are not the strongest part of my skillset at all.

[Burning Crystal]

VOTE: Kop

We aren't swinging this to scum overnight. There's no guarantee I will not sleep in. Hammer has to happen.

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

VOTE: Anen

I would be surprised if our cop has innos but a tracker might.

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

@Acryon, I would be surprised if Dave had any results at all.

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

I think that's a mischarachterization. Ranger appeared to be pretty certain Kop was scum. Kop flipped town. Same for Almost50. Ranger's naturally going to rework their reads. I would be more concerned if Ranger kept on the same path.

I am more concerned with KT's "rallying the troops" kind of post.

[Burning Crystal]

I could go for KT on that basis. I just am really perturbed at why this Anen wagon never gets traction

and no one says he's town anymore

. If he's town, I would expect some jumping or sudden revelations in an awkward attempt to get on his wagon, naked sheeping, or weak attacks/questions to attempt to move that way. Instead, we got a lot of ignoring us.

[Burning Crystal]

Just dropping by to remind everyone.
BurningCrystal promised there would be a VCA Today because they had never done it before Day3.
Instead of a VCA we can see them tunnelling me futher.

I wonder why anyone thinks they're town.

Post 1117

Die scum.

[Burning Crystal]

You're pandering pretty hard to Acryon and Ranger going after each other, hoping that continues.

[Burning Crystal]

Yeah Anen's basically trying to throw mud saying I haven't done a VCA.

I have said that to do a VCA requires a scum flip. We don't have one.

It's something people in my games should know by now and shows that Anen is just throwing shit.

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

OK, rather than read this mind numbing speculation crap, let's just verify what setup we are in.

If there's a tracker, they should claim with results.

[Burning Crystal]

It is not setup 10, because the setup does contain a RB. We either have setup 12 which is 4:2:2 remaining with a cop, tracker, mafia rb, goon, ww rb, ww goon, 2 citizens; or setup 5 which is 6:2 with cop, pgo, mafia rb, mafia follower, 4 citizens. I'm nearly certain it is 12 -- the only ways it could be 5 would be if Almost tried to BG scum or if Almost ran into the PGO (in which case we are probably lost due to the 1-shot).

Whether the remaining PR is tracker or PGO, we do not want a claim.

I'll have to compare Ranger's analysis to actual events. She's either spot on or it's a remarkable feat of misdirection.

One hundred percent disagree with no claim.

Claim from tracker is the last chance to reset.

Scum likely know the setup.

We can determine the ideal next play.

[Burning Crystal]

If we're in setup 12, scum are in a prisoner's dillema with a tracker claim.

If we're in 5, we keep town bodies alive.

If setup 10, we keep on trucking and lynch Anen.

Mass claim is in order.

VT. Popcorn Anen.

RL calls.

[Burning Crystal]

He didn't even stick with facts to do it.

We've been claimed since

yesterday

and

claimed again at the top of the page

.

Anen's obvious scum here. Since he passed me back control again, I'm going to take a shot at his partner(s) for whoever's left.

Chilledtea, you're up.

[Burning Crystal]

You claim.

Then you pick your biggest scumread to claim.

They pick their biggest out of who is left.

Dave, Anen, KT and myself have all claimed.

[Burning Crystal]

I am the tracker.

Popcorn Ranger.

You need to claim results then.

Fixed.

[Burning Crystal]

You should do it when all your targets have claimed.

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

To be honest, I wasn't expecting you to have any results. :$

~Titus

[Burning Crystal]

VOTE: Xtoxm

I think these last few posts speak for themselves.

[Burning Crystal]

Chilled, can you case Acryon? I was hard town reading him and Xtoxm and Xtoxm was wrong, so I could use a little direction.

[Burning Crystal]

Yes, by PoE when we got to 4 person setup. I was scumreading you too by the same method though so *shrug*. We know based on Xtoxm's response to you, that my reads are uber wrong.

My next steps tomorrow will be VCA and then a full on reread.

[Burning Crystal]

Yes, by PoE when we got to 4 person setup. I was scumreading you too by the same method though so *shrug*. We know based on Xtoxm's response to you, that my reads are uber wrong.

My next steps tomorrow will be VCA and then a full on reread.

You always knew that we are in setup 12. You always made that assumption. To you there were either 4 townies or 5 at most and you never believed that we have a PGO. So that means you should have been believing in 4 townie setup at the start of the day. Which means you should have been scum reading ranger, if you were town reading xtoxm and acryon.

Yes, that's what I just said... *shrug* English is hard.

[Burning Crystal]

I think that's a mischarachterization. Ranger appeared to be pretty certain Kop was scum. Kop flipped town. Same for Almost50. Ranger's naturally going to rework their reads. I would be more concerned if Ranger kept on the same path.

I am more concerned with KT's "rallying the troops" kind of post.

Then why is this a thing?

Two scumteams.

[Burning Crystal]

Intent to vote Aninen. Pretty sure he's scum.

Dave is conftown. (no cop CC)

Acryon is obvtown.

So Ranger is scum by PoE.

Wanna fight Anen?

[Burning Crystal]

Titus head v/la today

[Burning Crystal]

Acryon, it's pretty common knowledge the ww have a blocker too. It's in the setup.

@Anen,

So your statements were

- I scumread the cop late Day 1 (you being scum explains why Dave is still alive, you thought he was a mislynch)
- He tries to sell fitting votes to facts as analysis. We agreed Anen was scum, well it's going for the quicklynch.
- Your wagon persisted because you're scum. Acryon went to Kop, like you said. You're trying to paint being caught as something it isn't.
- Anyone who has played with me knows I get scumflips before VCA. No WW flip happened. That's not an excuse at all.
- You and Ranger aren't going to bus. Good to know.
- Yes, the whole game should be reread. Yet, you want people to focus only on the deductions I made that people perceived as scummy. Why is that? Oh right, framing.
- Right in a multiball game, scum can design a 3p lylo. *eyeroll*
- I've used this read before, attempting to discredit a process.

VOTE: Aneninen

I have two townreads. Time to die Anen.

[Burning Crystal]

OK, well I'll check back when I can. Either I will be at work or in bed sick most of the day.

Feel free to ask stuff. I will get to it when I can.

[Burning Crystal]

... well that just confirms that Acryon is town.

Thanks.

[Burning Crystal]

Umm, folks voting are aware we're in LYLO?

Yes. That's why Acryon is now conftown and its Ranger and Anen as the scumteam.

I voted Anen after placing intent. No one objected.
Anen, acknowledges the vote and the gamestate, votes Acryon.

Thus, game is solved.

[Burning Crystal]

Not ready to vote since I'm not 100% on my reads.

He's waiting because he wants to hammer.
Good to know.

VOTE: Acryon

I don't see myself voting anyone else today.

VOTE: acryon.

So, I'll risk it.

VOTE: acryon

Good game.