Mini 1266 - My iTunes Mafia - GAME OVER

[DeltaWave]

Hello my friends. I am your new monk. I will read the game and report back to you with my findings once I have figured out what's going on.

[DeltaWave]

I've done my read through. Before I share my impressions, I have a few questions.

(1) Painted Face of Death - Why so serious in #29?
(2) Slandaar - How certain were you of your reads in #33?
(3) Slandaar - Why do you ask what my read on you is in #216?
(4) Fennin - You reacted negatively to Slandaar saying "Fennin might be scum" in #206. From a town perspective, everyone

might

be scum unless there's an investigative report to the contrary. Why does this provoke a negative reaction out of you?
(5) J - You speculated on your town-reading capabilities in #149. Do you often rely on gut to make decisions?

[DeltaWave]

(2) Slandaar - How certain were you of your reads in #33?
(3) Slandaar - Why do you ask what my read on you is in #216?

2. That was really just my way of saying there seems to be a connection, they seem like team scum from that, i guess it was moderate suspicion, which is a LOT for that point in the game.
3. Why are you so concerned with giving your read on me ?

1. Okay; that's understandable.
2. Why are you so concerned with me being concerned about you asking me for my read on you?

[DeltaWave]

29 was a response to Slandaar's first post, 28, which was just to quote Sken asking what I thought was a reasonable question and then vote her. I thought that was odd so I took it seriously enough to FOS but not seriously enough to vote. The quoting made it look like Slandaar thought Sken's question was super scummy and I was kinda baffled by that. (IIRC Slan's since explained that he thought Sken asking DV why he didn't post his reasons was a dumb question since it was an obvious fishing tactic by DV; my own philosophy is that posting some sort of reason or explanation is important even if you're fishing.)

Thanks for replying to my question. I'll ponder this because I think it may be relevant in the future.

2. Why are you so concerned with me being concerned about you asking me for my read on you?

I want to know your read on me, why are you so unwilling to give it?

I will give my read on you, i think you be scum.

It seems odd that you would be concerned with how I perceive you when you aren't under any particular pressure or at the risk of a lynch. If you were town, I don't see why this would be a big issue for you. If you were at L-1 or 2 and I was a possible hammer vote, I could see town asking that question, but we're not in that situation. Why are you interested in getting feedback as to how you come off? My read on you is still undetermined, pending the resolution of this conversation.

[DeltaWave]

Current Song: Judas Priest - Breaking the Law

[DeltaWave]

I was interested what you thought due to meta, but whatever, I think you are scum who knew this and was just trying to avoid giving the read, you should know i ask questions like this, so your suspicion is unfounded, which again takes me to the same conclusion, along with your offcharacter intro i find you highly suspicious in your 4/5 posts.

I don't know much about your meta. I've only played one game with you before (my newbie game.) Why would I avoid giving a read on you?

[DeltaWave]

by me saying why i want the read, it nullifys your response which is why you avoided it until i gave you the reason.

You seem very defensive. It's highly unusual to randomly ask for a read like that, and twice as unusual to act defensive when your question is scrutinized. I had previously read you as null but you've gained a few scumpoints. I have my eye on you. For now, though, I'm fine with my vote staying where it is.

[DeltaWave]

uh, Delta: What do you actually think of Skenvoy?

Bingo, that's the million dollar question. I was hoping Slandaar would ask this and then I could award him a few townpoints. The important issue is not what I think of Slandaar, who is not suspected, but what I think about Sken, who my predecessor voted and I obviously haven't unvoted. DV, you get the townpoints instead. Two of them.

Skenvoy is actually not the scummiest player in my eyes. Much of his case was based on meta, which I don't buy. But I do think there is some virtue in keeping my vote on him, if only to produce pressure that might let me extract more information. There are some questions I want answered but asking them would give away too much, so maybe pressure is the only way for me to get what I want.

[DeltaWave]

The thing is, if it wasn't for meta, I wouldn't be voting Skenvoy. Her play seems off to me.

Because of this, I don't understand why so many are voting for her, thinking she's most likely to be scum. This causes me to doubt that she is scum and think she is town with scum attacking her, but then I realise I'm making too many assumptions and maybe others do actually find her scummy.

It sounds like you're playing the "what if" game too much. One problem with looking at whose play "seems off" is that, generally speaking, almost everyone is likely to "seem off" at one point or another. So scumminess is not absolute, just a range. I have my eyebrow raised at Skenvoy; they have done some erratic things, but I'm not convinced that Skenvoy is the scummiest person here.

[DeltaWave]

Im not voting Sken based on any meta information at all.

Is there any one piece of evidence against Sken that you find to be the most convincing?

[DeltaWave]

Delta, who do you think is the scummiest person here?

The case against Painted is overwhelming.

[DeltaWave]

At this point I think I'd support either a Skenvoy or Painted lynch, with [J] probably being my third suspect.

At this moment in time, Painted is scummier than Skenvoy.

[DeltaWave]

@Slandaar - In what way do you mean "BS"? Like, badly reasoned or intentionally badly reasoned or what...

[DeltaWave]

or, if you could present the overwhelming case against Painted that would be good too Delta...

Even though I may end up repeating what other people have said, I will do this. You may not see it until tomorrow though, as I have a night class and I might come home so late that I will end up passing out.

Preview Edit: Painted, I find it interesting that you don't mention this until I express suspicion of you. Your twitchiness is noted.

[DeltaWave]

or, if you could present the overwhelming case against Painted that would be good too Delta...

The sheer number of alarm bells Painted has raised, from the very start of the game up until now, is staggering. It's been discussed at length in this thread; in fact, the first few pages seem devoted solely to this topic. I don't know if a rehash of individual points will do anyone any good. But I am proceeding cautiously because in my experience, people may seem incredibly scummy even though they are not so. I remember in my first game on here (Newbie 1149, which you were in Slandaar) I tunneled excessively. I have a meta on other sites for playing like I'm on crack, so I've added another layer of contemplation to my analysis. I call it the Zen of Mafia.

@Don_Johnson - Do you think Painted is scum?
@Painted - What's your opinion (at this moment) of Sken?
@Sken - What's your opinion (at this moment) of Painted?

[DeltaWave]

@DJ - We have about seven days left until the deadline, so I was going to give IS another day to get caught up. If IS just not going to post, we should get a replacement.

[DeltaWave]

there is a difference between inactivity, lurking, and scummy. at this point IS is scummy. if his next post is "still reading," or "post soon", then we need to lynch him. if his post is "hey guys, don't have time, replace out." then we replace him. if he posts something townie, then we give him another day. thats how it works. maybe its because i have more experience on the site than most of you, but its disturbing how many of you are oblivious to the consequences of condoning this behavior. force replacing is not something that can be done. there is a post requirement of however many hours in between posts. if a player meets those requirements, they cannot be replaced. but whatevz.

We're on the same page with this, I think. My personal deadline for IS to post is one day; but whether that post is scummy or town determines my next action.

[DeltaWave]

@Don Johnson - Let's say that we're living in fantasy land, and five minutes from now, Skenvoy, Painted and IS all end up at L-1. (Can't happen due to numbers obviously, but roll with it for a minute.) You haven't voted yet. Who do you hammer?

[DeltaWave]

Oops, forgot my song. New Radicals - You Only Get What You Give.

[DeltaWave]

Delta: Is your play-style always this different on MS?

I play mafia on another site with DeasVail. On that site, my meta is that I'm an extremely aggressive tunneller. There is a sizeable group of people who want to policy lynch me on day one primarily because of this meta. In the last completed game there, I was a VT who ended up causing the lynch of three or four townies. (lol) Slandaar saw some of this in Newbie 1149, where I tunnelled hard on the guy who turned out to be the Town Cop for two days straight. My "high on PCP" playstyle doesn't seem to be effective, so I'm trying to calm down a little bit.

@Painted - You scored a few townpoints with 350. My critique of your case is in bold.

Subtly pressuring the town to "compromise on a lynch" soon. Check. -

This is scummy

Rush to L-1 or lynch someone. Check.

This is scummy

Claiming to speak for the town and set the town's agenda. Check.

Sometimes scummy; probably null

Saying disagreement with him is scummy ("if you're town you should be on board"). Check.

I've actually found this to be a null tell personally

As IS pointed out, trying for the lurker policy lynch as an easy lynch with plausible deniability. Check

This is scummy

[DeltaWave]

I obviously don't expect anyone to think Skenvoy is scum for the same reasons I do (except perhaps Delta, but I don't know if they know who each other is XD) so no one else would be able to use meta as a reason to vote Skenvoy.

Wat?

@Skenvoy - I was hoping to generate some pressure with my vote. Apparently no pressure was generated.

[DeltaWave]

@Skenvoy - PerC?

@DeasVeil - I absolutely hate meta-based arguments so so so so so much. Also, you aren't looking very good right now.

[DeltaWave]

Delta, so IS points out the obvious and now I'm not looking good?

Your defense is a bit lacking.

[DeltaWave]

Why are you mentioning meta-based arguments? I'm not arguing anything. I'm just saying that I get the feeling that Skenvoy is scum. You all can believe whatever you like.

What am I supposed to be defending against?

You may be misinterpreting me. The first and second sentences are independent of each other. You mentioned meta arguments in a previous post, you said MS doesn't like them. I said that I don't like them either. The second sentence is referring to your interactions with IS.

[DeltaWave]

Why do certain names have a ( ) around them in the votecount?

[DeltaWave]

Painted made some good points against DJ in his last case. In fact, some elements of that case are on my own personal list of strong scum-tells. Yet, I also suspect Painted. I'm trying to sort this out in my head.

[DeltaWave]

In DV vs. IS, I'd lynch IS over DV at the current time.

Every single one of DW's posts are coming off as null to me and I just can't get a solid foundation on that slot,. DW, you say in your last post you find PFoD and DJ scummy based on points they have both brought up against each other. You say you are leaning PFoD in this as scum, is this still the case? What points specifically do you like against DJ?

I don't know which one I'm leaning towards, but PFoD hit on some of my favorite scumtells. This includes seeming too eager for a lynch (wanting to rush through to get someone killed) and pushing too hard for certain policies (in this case, lynch all lurkers; it makes it very easy to hide behind policy when a target flips town.) I'm still thinking about this.

(P.S. I'm town.)

Also, do you think we'd end up in a DV vs. IS situation?

[DeltaWave]

What is this thing about a me vs. IS situation? I don't know if IS is scum or not and I don't find him particularly likely to be scum right now.

J sounded like they were saying it was some sort of choice between lynching you and IS. So I was probing deeper into that. I have null on both DV and IS at this stage, so I have no opinion on that.

[DeltaWave]

Is anyone else wondering where Oasis is?

[DeltaWave]

Alright. And where is MetaBot? They've only posted 5 times in 17 pages.

[DeltaWave]

So DV, basically you'd support a lynch on anyone? :p

[DeltaWave]

Is anyone else wondering where Oasis is?

This reads bad to me too

Which part of it, Oasis' lurking or my prompt to get him to post?

[DeltaWave]

Slandaar, what do you find odd about trying to get everyone engaged in the Day One discussion? In my experience, the information collected in D1 tends to be the most useful down the road. I want to make sure that everyone participates. I see nothing odd about poking lurkers to get them to respond.

You're living in the past, man. Painted was the scummiest player in the thread at the time I made that comment, but times change. Painted made some excellent points against DJ that are making me question his scumminess. Then DV comes along and says he'll support a lynch of almost everyone in the game, even though all those people can't possibly be scum. I have a trifecta of scumminess on my hands. The deadline is coming up, though, so a decision must be made soon. The possibility of DV being scum is attractive, but I don't know if that's only because "Painted v. DJ" is causing me headaches.

Slandaar, what's your opinion of a DV lynch today?

[DeltaWave]

im sure i wrote post #423, could be wrong though...

I want something more solid out of you. The tone of #423 suggests, and correct me if I'm wrong, that you are throwing some suspects out there because the deadline is approaching. I want to know if you really think that DV et al. are scum, or if you think these are just the best candidates and you have to make a decision because of the deadline. Scum love deadlines because it lets them use the deadline as an excuse later and it hides their thought processes. I'm presumptively suspicious of those who use the deadline in this way. So give me something clearer.

[DeltaWave]

You're a little twitchy there, Slandaar, voting me at the first sign of pressure. Am I asking questions that bother you? It sounds like I hit a nerve somewhere. Your post is very telling... you're wondering why I show suspicion toward you... I don't know, perhaps this is mafia, and it's Day One, and nobody's been confirmed town by a flip or investigative report? Your logic is questionable. What bothers you about being suspected? Why so defensive?

Anyway, your argument is invalid. When I do vote, I will stand behind my vote. The deadline may accelerate my thought processes, but I won't hide behind it, as you implied that you would do in 423.

[DeltaWave]

Slandaar, I have no problem with people being undecided. Happens to me all the time; in fact, I feel somewhat undecided right now, although I'm starting to get quite a bit more critical of you. What I do have a problem with, though, is hiding behind a deadline. This is why our positions are fundamentally different. I say that I'm having a hard time deciding. That's okay. But you are focused on the deadline, and it sounds like you want to use that deadline as a prompt for who you will vote for. That's behavior I have a problem with, because if you are scum, it allows you to hide tomorrow. All you have to do is say, "It came down to the deadline, I had to vote... oops he was town, but those are the breaks." I'm sure you can see why I'm suspicious of you. I've seen scum use tactics like that before, so it's a red flag.

I explained my position on Painted pages ago; much has developed since then and you seem to be living completely in the past. Try looking at recent events. What benefit does it serve you to go and take an old position, that I made a long time ago, and hold it out to be my position now? Are you intentionally trying to misrep me here, or is it an accident?

[DeltaWave]

I explained why I found Painted scummy; for the most part, others had made the case before me so I wasn't going to repeat it, but I referred to the Skenvoy/Painted interaction earlier in the game.

[DeltaWave]

Well, you still find him scummy show me why he is.

Painted's knee jerk reactions in the first three pages of the game are reason enough to be suspicious of him. But the case on Painted has pretty much gone stale in the last ten pages, and Painted's case against DJ gave him some townpoints in my eyes.

[DeltaWave]

@Mod

- Tomorrow is the deadline, so as per Rule #11, I would like to request a 24 hour deadline extension. (This would make the deadline Thursday instead of Wednesday.

@DV - You mentioned that you put IS on your list because he strongly believes you are scum and you think that he'll continue to press the issue in later days. Why is that a valid reason to vote for someone?

[DeltaWave]

Slandaar: We can each request an extra 24 hours to be added to the deadline as per Rule 11. I've already requested mine, so we have at least two days. You can request yours to make it three days.

[DeltaWave]

Slandaar, your methods are highly suspect. You are misrepping the deadline. We don't have just one day, we can request an additional day each. Which means we can have another week if we wanted to. I already requested a day on my side, so we don't have 1 day like you are representing, we have at the very least 2. Doing all that in order to bring about a lynch is extremely questionable. I'm not about to hop on board your wagon when you are acting this scummy.

[DeltaWave]

He could be, but I haven't seen a good case against him.

[DeltaWave]

Also, in my eyes, it's either a DV or Slandaar vote today. On one hand, DV has been all over the place when it comes to votes and seems to be comfortable with lynching almost everyone. On the other hand, Slandaar misrepped the deadline to trick the town into hopping on his bandwagon. I'm not sure which one is scummier.

[DeltaWave]

Any case that relies on misrepping a deadline to get it pushed through is going to be treated with great suspicion from me.

You knew we could extend the deadline, you saw the post in which I asked to have it extended 24 hours under Rule 11. Yet you claim that we only had one day left. If you wanted to, you could extend it to three days. But no, you claim that we only have one. That's pretty underhanded and I can't even imagine town doing that.

The more I think about it. There is a small chance that DV is town and just likes to bounce around with votes. But town misrepping the deadline to push a lynch? Even more unlikely to be town.

UNVOTE: Skenvoy
VOTE: Slandaar

[DeltaWave]

Odd, since DW "misrepped" the deadline earlier. The original deadline was the evening of the 17th so we have two and a half days from now even without any extensions. Yet DW just said tomorrow was the deadline.

My bad, I thought today was the 16th and not the 15th. My point still stands though, either way there is more time than Slandaar suggested.

[DeltaWave]

Given that I was mistaken originally, and you based your information on my mistake, I'm going to pull my vote for now.

UNVOTE: Slandaar

[DeltaWave]

Given that I was mistaken originally, and you based your information on my mistake, I'm going to pull my vote for now.

UNVOTE: Slandaar

Strictly from a logical point of view, this unvote doesn't make sense. You just got the day wrong by one, but even so his posts were misrepresenting the deadline. As you pointed out, there was more than a day either way, and you explained to him several times that you'd asked for the deadline to be extended.

A little quick on the trigger to vote and unvote here?

I had accidentally low-balled the length of the day before Slandaar's case. Slandaar then used my representation as to length of the day in his case. I thought his misrepresentation was an intentional scum tactic, but it looks like it was a mistake that I had actually caused. I'm not in the business of lynching townies; if I see a flaw in my case I'm going to pull back my vote based on that case.

I'm guessing that you wanted me to stick on Slandaar because I had expressed suspicion of you and considered you one of my top suspects. You won't get off the hook that easy.

PFoD - What's your opinion on Slandaar? Also, guttersnipe.

P-Edit: I'm in the midst of determining who is worse, PFoD or DV. If I'm still stumped after a while of thinking about it, I'll default to PFoD.

[DeltaWave]

I been making a pretty damn solid case on Deas.

It was good untill the lurking stuff which is not true. And a couple buzzards seem to be looking at the lynch (Delta/Sken).

Dont you find it off, that people are looking at the lynch but not based on the real core of the case?

The case against DV is compelling, particularly the point that DV disappeared when the pressure was on, and the fact that DV would be okay with lynching pretty much anyone. But I don't know if that's more suspicious than PFoD.

I'll think it over and have a vote within the next 12 hours or so that I plan on committing to.

[DeltaWave]

DV never lurked after being accused, im sure of it, you people who are suggesting he did PARTICULARLY DELTA need to explain.

It's not like he stopped posting entirely, but he did back off significantly.

[DeltaWave]

oh hi delta, thats amazing, where did you come from?!

You asked what I thought, so I told you. You're really grasping for straws here.

[DeltaWave]

What are you on about?

[DeltaWave]

You were obviously reading the thread/had read the thread but were trying to stay out of the conversation. ie lurking.

Yeah, I wonder why someone wouldn't post between ~6pm and ~9am the next morning. I wonder what I could have been doing during all that time. This has to be the worst case I have ever seen in mafia, hands down.

[DeltaWave]

Yeah, it sure is scummy to go to sleep like a normal human being. I can't even believe what I'm seeing here. This is the first time I've ever seen, on this site or elsewhere, accuse someone of being a scummy lurker because they have a regular sleep schedule. Your case is that I'm scummy because I didn't post from ~6pm to ~9am the next day. Dear god.

I can't remember if I mentioned it in this thread before, but I have a night class on Tuesday nights from 6:30PM to 9:30PM, then I get home around 10:30. Occasionally I make a post when I get home, but I usually don't. Then I sleep all night, wake up in the morning, and post while I eat breakfast. ZOMG LURKING DELTA IS OBVSCUM BECAUSE HE DIDN'T POST FROM THE EVENING ON ONE NIGHT UNTIL THE MORNING OF THE NEXT DAY!1!!1 1ONE

Slandaar, you have officially constructed the worst case I have ever seen. Ever. For that, my vote returns to you.

VOTE: Slandaar

[DeltaWave]

Yeah, not posting from 6pm to 9am is clearly lurking.

But while you're on the roll with a badcase, why not throw in a misrep? I never said that I'm somehow locked out of posting during those hours, just that I rarely do so because I have a night class and I'm tired. You even said that my defense was "plausible." Are you back tracking on that now?

This case is just unfathomable coming from you. The last game we played was Newbie 1149 and you were easily the most pro-town player. All your cases were pretty solid. Then you show up in this game with a "DELTA DIDN'T POST FROM 6PM TO 9AM SO THEREFORE HE IS LURKING SCUM!" case. This only increases my certainty that you are scum.

[DeltaWave]

Yeah, my schedule is different on different days. I tend not to have class on Saturday.

Looks like you've gone all-in with your badcase. Good, you're scum and you need to get lynched.

[DeltaWave]

not getting too involved in scumhunting is one of the reasons Delta is one of my top suspects.

DV: My scumhunting technique is actually quite useful. The questions I've been asking (mostly what who thinks of whom, positions on stuff, etc) have intrinsic value now, but later on, they will be even more useful in tracking down scum. Day One is critical and getting this kind of information in Day One is extremely important. If you are town, you will thank me later. (If you're scum, you won't.)

Preview Edit:

Don Johnson - Do you think that Slandaar's "Delta didn't post between 6pm and 9am, therefore he is a scummy lurker" case to be compelling?

Also, how do you respond to PFoD's criticism that you are trying to split the game into two sides and pitting them against each other?

[DeltaWave]

PEdit: Delta, what I've seen is mostly commentary on other people's case, particularly the one on me.

You don't like it when I critique other people's cases?

[DeltaWave]

Posting 2 minutes after someone having not posted in hours to respond to a post about you is ridiculously scummy or coincidental.

The chance of coincidence is low due to factors i showed.

You are so blatantly scum. In my last post yesterday (6:10PM) I said I'd be back in "the next 12 hours or so." (509) So I come back in 14 hours, which is basically what I said I would do, and responded to your comment first because you were specifically asking for my input. Then you make this badcase that causes you to eclipse all others in scumminess.

I think everyone pretty much understands why your case is terrible, but I'll spell it out for you. I announced that I was going to come back in about 12 hours. That was true; I came back in about 14, which is reasonably close. You then try to turn this into a case,

even though I said yesterday I wouldn't read the thread for about 12 hours.

That's like if someone said "I'm going to be V/LA until tomorrow at 8pm" and you get on their case for posting at 8 and responding to the first post they see that mentions their name.

I find it hard to believe that town would make a case like this, and it's doubly hard to believe because I know you to be a very reasonable player when you are town. I've seen your townplay and you are not inclined toward making bad cases, let alone absolutely ridiculous "this case is going to be laughed at forever and ever until the last person stops playing mafia" type cases.

Preview Edit:

DJ - I see nothing wrong with my scumhunting style. Establishing connections between players is going to be important because once we lynch scum, we just hook up the links and take out the whole team. This is essential information and will likely go a long way to securing a town win. Before I replaced into this game, I was thinking, what information would an ideal Day One provide. And so, I am providing it. If you don't like that, whatever, because when we hit D2 and D3, everyone is going to be looking through my posts and saying "I'm glad Delta asked those questions because this lets me understand the relation of each player to another."

As for you and IS. I think you're both so pissed off at each other that I can't see through the bravado and aggression. In my personal experience, shit like this tends to be town on town but I don't know. Either way, I find Slandaar to more scummy by many orders of magnitude.

Preview Edit #2:

Hey, Slandaar. Manipulating people into voting for me isn't going to win you any townpoints.

Do you really think it comes off as town to offer up an alliance to IS if he'll switch his vote to me? You must be desperate at this point, probably because you've gone all-in on the case and you know you can't back out now without somehow looking even more scummier than you do already.

[DeltaWave]

Deltas case on me is my case on him is terrible.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

even though I said yesterday I wouldn't read the thread for about 12 hours.

How about you quote where you said that?

Specifically the bit 'I wont read the thread for' I need to see that bit quoted.

I said I'd think about it and have a vote within 12 hours. That implies I'm not going to be around for that duration, or else I wouldn't have said 12 hours. Unless you think I'm going to be somehow posting in my sleep. When I got back, I addressed your post first because you were directly addressing me. Then you conveniently demonstrated your scumminess to me.

Here's the problem. Sometimes town makes bad cases. But town doesn't make cases that are

this bad

. "Delta lurks because he didn't post from 6pm to 9am which is no surprise because he said he'd be back in 12 hours BUT HE'S SCUM ANYWAY" is easily the crappiest case ever made.

[DeltaWave]

Now Slandaar is relying on semantics to get his point across. This case reaches new lows with each post. I said 12 hours "or so" (as in, roughly 12 hours). Trying to twist that into "before 12 hours" is dishonest and an example of nit-picking semantics. If you have to stoop this low to back up your case, you have to know it's pretty bad. I said I'd post in about 12 hours, it actually took me 14, ooooh grounds for a lynch right there. This is ridiculous. That's the only word to describe it.

Like I said, townies don't make cases this bad.

[DeltaWave]

Delta says:

I said i wouldnt read the thread for 12 hours

I say:

Nope you did not

Delta says:

Semantics, townies wouldnt stoop so low.

Hey, Slandaar. More misreps aren't going to save you.

I'll correct your post.

Delta says: "12 hours or so" (reality is that it took 14 hours)
Slandaar says (Post 589) "within 12 hours implies before 12 hours."
Delta: Semantics, townies wouldn't stop so low.

This case is so bad that it doesn't even deserve a response from me. But Slandaar knows that he's committed to it, so I might as well illustrate how he keeps providing evidence of his scumminess.

[DeltaWave]

Jesus, DV, don't you have a single read that isn't influenced

by me being scum

? What happens when I flip town? How will your reads change?

I'd love to think this was a scum slip, but I don't think I can stretch it that far

If you want tips on how to stretch things too far, just ask Slandaar. Apparently according to his post 597, his case has moved onto such compelling arguments as "DeltaWave posted two hours later than he said he would, therefore he is scum!"

DV: Why are you fixated on Skenvoy and Painted? They certainly should be examined but tell me how Slandaar's play is more town than they are. How pro-town is it to get into cases based on semantics and ridiculous nitpicking? Is that really scumhunting, or is it something else? Do you think a townie is going to go around saying, "Well, the best way to catch scum is to play wordgames and misrep." No way. Plus, I know Slandaar is a good townie. I've played with him before and he formulated some of the best cases in that game. Then he comes out with this. This isn't Slandaar-town.

[DeltaWave]

I'm not fixated on Skenvoy and Painted. They are my top suspects.

DW, if you really think there's only a small chance I'm town, why does it seem you're trying to convince me that Slandaar is not town?

If you are scum, then your reaction will be useful to me after Slandaar flips scum. If you are town, great.

[DeltaWave]

DW, What's so great about me being town?

If you are town then you are likely to realize I'm correct about Slan.

DV, I'm still wondering why you think that Sken/PFoD are scummier than Slandaar.

And now, I'm going to go to sleep.

Slandaar, that means I'm not going to be posting until tomorrow. Just to clarify that with you, because apparently taking a hiatus from posting that lasts from 6:00ish to 9:00ish is is scummy in your eyes.

[DeltaWave]

Nothing like waking up to the smell of a fresh crapcase in the morning.

I have a very simple principle that I like to follow: "If someone has to alter facts, mis-state reality, or come up with new facts to support a case, then they're not town." Town is interested in genuinely lynching scum, not finding new and inventive ways to misstate the truth.

So what I'll do is run through Slandaar's revised case and show how scummy he is. If you're not voting for Slandaar after this, then I have no idea what's up.

Delta doesnt understand the case this is the problem people are picking at arguments that are not the case here it is simple;

Delta lurked

He tries to say he couldnt post in the said timeframe and was a coincidence

, i show that he had posted previously in that timeframe so coincidence seems unlikely.

Lie.

In Post #562, I explicitly said: "I never said that I'm somehow locked out of posting during those hours, just that I

rarely do

so because I have a night class and I'm tired."

Doesn't that sound a little bit different than "couldn't post"?

Now, Slandaar read Post 562. He responded to it. He was aware that my position wasn't that I couldn't post during those hours, but rather that I usually don't because I'm tried. Nevertheless, he tries to misrep it again. Would a townie need to do this?

That's the question I want all of you to ask. Would a townie ignore what a person has explicitly said in favor of some made-up version of events?

All this 12 hours stuff is him trying to defend himself from the lurking but literally it doesnt matter, fact is simple; he still has not commented on anything other than the post i called him out on, which implies he HAD read everything hence lurking when i posted. Otherwise he would have made some mention of it afterwards when he caught up.

I even say its either coincidence or lurking, but he tries to completely deny he could post before that point, why? it makes no sense, what has that got to do with anything? how am i supposed to know if he can or cant post then? i showed he does post in a period hes saying he doesnt, the evidence points to lurking.

Again, Slandaar claims that I "tried to completely deny he could post before that point." Does the quote from 562 sound anything like that?

When I come around and say, "I'm tired at that time so I usually don't post", could any reasonable person interpret that as a complete denial that I could post at that time?

Slandaar's case is ridiculous and it gets more and more ridiculous with each post. He's committed to it, and he's getting desperate, but he's scum and he's leaking scumtells left and right. He needs to eat rope today.

@DV: Seriously, what do you think of this case against Slandaar. This is the second or third time (I forget) that you've dodged my question. How is he more town than PFoD or Sken?

Preview Edit: I've addressed all this in the past, you can't derail this discussion by asking me questions I've already explained.

[DeltaWave]

I've already explained.

ORLY?

I dont remember you explaining why DJ just disappeared off your suspects list...

or why Meta is now valuable...

huh.

(1) You're making this up again; DJ didn't disappear off my suspect list at all. Provide proof of your assertion. I know you can't, because this is a flat-out lie just like the most recent incarnation of your case, but I thought I might ask just for fun.

(2) My case against you stands without meta. The meta was just a footnote, although I can see why you'd like to disregard 95% of my case to deal only with a few sentences. You want attention to be directed away from my case on you to a minor point I brought up. You'd rather be discussing the few sentences I've devoted to your meta instead of the paragraphs I've spent showing how you blatantly and shamelessly lie to get your case across.

I think Slandaar keeps posting like this to push my responses to his case back, and therefore they may get overlooked. So everyone reading this needs to go back to my Post #624, read it over, and tell me if you seriously see Slandaar as town after all that BS.

[DeltaWave]

Your case is so, so, so, so undeniably bad.

In Post 662, you stated that DeltaWave claimed "he couldn't post in said timeframe." I proved that to be a lie in my Post 664.

So you ignore that. I caught you in a blatant lie and you just want it to slip by without further comment.

Now your case is that because I

could have

posted from the evening on one night, to the morning of the next day, I was lurking.

Holy shit Slandaar. This case is so bad. I can't believe that you are honestly coming in here and claiming that because I didn't post from night to morning, I must be LURKING SCUM.

You stated in #555 that my defense was "plausible." Why the backtrack?

You are so much scum.

[DeltaWave]

if you could post in the timeframe it backs up what i was saying

the case has nothing to do with you not posting during a certain period.

I like how you can go from using the time period I was posting in to support your case, to the position that the time period has nothing to do with the case, in the span of only three minutes. It's always awesome when scum contradict themselves in a double-post.

Your case is an absolute joke. It's such a waste for me to even respond to it, but pointing out these scumslips make it worth my time.

At this point, I'm not sure how anyone can not be voting Slandaar. Not only is his case fundamentally ridiculous, but I've pointed out lies and contradictions that town would have no incentive to make.

[DeltaWave]

Then you were saying the case is that you didnt post in a 12 hour period.

Its not.

Thats not it at all.

Why do you misrep continually?

within 12 hours implies before 12 hours.

so yeah, nice defence.

I'm actually laughing IRL right now.

I've caught you dead-to-rights.

[DeltaWave]

Surely you're aware that "couldn't" and "wouldn't" have different meanings.

Your case is just so bad. So, so bad.

[DeltaWave]

Your case is still full of holes. It's just as much BS as it ever was.

(1) Your case in the "Painted" section involves so much implication that it's insane. Same with the DJ portion. Because I don't mention DJ in a post, I've ceased to suspect him? Bullshit. You're desperate.

(2) On the fence section - Because I was trying to decide between two people, I'm scummy? Bullshit. Also, bonus scumpoints for

heavily editing

my post #428. If you were town, you wouldn't need to do that.

(3) Lurking - lol I covered this earlier

(4) Meta - Again, you're taking shit out of context.

I was correct when I said I didn't know your meta; I had only played one game against you and you were town. Therefore, I don't know your meta because I've never seen you play scum.

This is not contradictory because I know how you play as a townie, which I stated, and your play is much different from that. Plus, the meta argument isn't even a part of my case.

I should write up a big case against Slandaar. It will have to be later though because I'm going to be busy soon. But, look at all the lies and misreps Slandaar has come out with in the last few pages. If that's not enough, look at Slandaar's first question to me when I replaced in. He wanted to know what I thought about him. Because he's scum, looking to gauge people's reactions to him. He also went from WE MUST LYNCH FENNIN to oh wait MUST LYNCH DELTA at the slightest provocation.

Look at it this way. He was gung ho on Fennin. Then I made a post addressing him, and he came out with this lurker argument. His wall of text is just a retroactive justification for his bullshit.

Yeah, I'm going to put together a case on Slandaar. I'll have it probably tonight.

[DeltaWave]

EBWOP:Correction: "The meta argument isn't even a substantial part of my case." Left a word out.

[DeltaWave]

Here's the case versus Slandaar in generally a chronological order. I found out that I had more free time than I thought, so I figure I might wreck him and expose him as scum now.

After reading this, there should be no doubt in anyone's mind that Slandaar is scum.

Scumtell: Being overly concerned with whether they appear town or not

The first interaction I had with Slandaar in this game was in Post #216, in which he asks for my read on him. He doesn't ask who I think is scummy; he asks for my impression of him. I was skeptical of him asking this, because it's typical scum behavior. He wants to know if he's playing a good town game.

I expressed doubt; after that, he's been all over me because I'm apparently the first person to actually suspect him in this game I think. In response, he immediately started to suspect me in a quasi-OMGUS way. He immediately identified that I would be critical of him, and so he went on the offensive. All his actions make sense in that light. He knew I wasn't buying his BS, so he had to come get me. Nobody else was giving him the third degree.

Scumtell: Slandaar flip flops extensively

Slandaar was apparently sure that we should lynch Fennin in 457. Then changes his vote to me in 559 based on the "Delta doesn't post from 6pm to 9am, must be scum!" reasoning. Keep in mind that this is the case thus far. All that bullshit he recently spewed didn't exist yet.

So what Slandaar wants you to believe is that Fennin was definitely definitely scum, but then oh delta doesn't post from 6pm to 9am so that overrides the case on Fennin. LOL.

Sounds more like opportunistic scum. Nobody was really biting on the Fennin case, so you might as well try out something on Delta, right?

Scumtell: Slandaar has not been actively scumhunting

Look at Slandaar's ISO. Up until he started to suspect me, he took noncomittal "oh maybe so-and-so is scum" type posts. On the other hand, I've been actively questioning other people and using those questions to establish relationships. My scumhunting is effective; he's been doing nothing.

Scumtell: Slandaar falsely claims that I didn't comment on the discussion that happened overnight

In #622, Slandaar claimed that I only responded to his post and didn't talk about the discussion overnight. Guess what - his post was about the discussion overnight.

Scumtell: Slandaar repeatedly misrepresented my case in order to strengthen his own.

From my other post, posted here for convenience.

Delta doesnt understand the case this is the problem people are picking at arguments that are not the case here it is simple;

Delta lurked

He tries to say he couldnt post in the said timeframe and was a coincidence

, i show that he had posted previously in that timeframe so coincidence seems unlikely.

Lie.

In Post #562, I explicitly said: "I never said that I'm somehow locked out of posting during those hours, just that I

rarely do

so because I have a night class and I'm tired."

Doesn't that sound a little bit different than "couldn't post"?

Now, Slandaar read Post 562. He responded to it. He was aware that my position wasn't that I couldn't post during those hours, but rather that I usually don't because I'm tried. Nevertheless, he tries to misrep it again. Would a townie need to do this?

That's the question I want all of you to ask. Would a townie ignore what a person has explicitly said in favor of some made-up version of events?

All this 12 hours stuff is him trying to defend himself from the lurking but literally it doesnt matter, fact is simple; he still has not commented on anything other than the post i called him out on, which implies he HAD read everything hence lurking when i posted. Otherwise he would have made some mention of it afterwards when he caught up.

I even say its either coincidence or lurking, but he tries to completely deny he could post before that point, why? it makes no sense, what has that got to do with anything? how am i supposed to know if he can or cant post then? i showed he does post in a period hes saying he doesnt, the evidence points to lurking.

Again, Slandaar claims that I "tried to completely deny he could post before that point." Does the quote from 562 sound anything like that?

When I come around and say, "I'm tired at that time so I usually don't post", could any reasonable person interpret that as a complete denial that I could post at that time?

Scumtell: Slandaar shifts his own case when it benefits him.

He stated:

within 12 hours implies before 12 hours.

so yeah, nice defence.

Later on, he contradicted himself.

if you could post in the timeframe it backs up what i was saying

the case has nothing to do with you not posting during a certain period.

When it became clear that people didn't accept this whole "lurker" argument, he decided to renounce it and claim that he was never holding me to posting within a particular time. So why the "within 12 hours implies before 12 hours" post? He tried to use it, didn't work, now he wants to claim it never happened.

Scummy.

Scumtell: Attempting to manipulate the town.

In Post #581, Slandaar apparently tries to form some alliance with IS on the condition that IS votes for me. This is scummy as hell because town should decide who is scummy based on facts, not based on vote-trading. In that same post, Slandaar also declares that we won't be lynching IS, DJ or Painted today despite these people being generally among the most suspected. Yeah, that's totally pro-town. Everyone throw out your suspicious and vote with me!

Finally, some points in defense.

Defense: This lurking allegation is false because my actions were completely in line with what I promised.

In my last post the night before, I said I'd be back in "12 hours or so." It turned out to be 14 hours, and I responded to Slandaar's post because he mentioned me by name. He spun this around to try to make it out to be scummy, but I was acting exactly as I had promised. Like I said earlier, Slandaar's case is almost like taking someone who says "I'll be V/LA until tomorrow at 8" and when that person posts again, play this "THEY'RE LURKING" card.

Defense: My position on meta is consistent.

As I mentioned in my last post, I was being correct when I said I didn't know Slandaar's meta because I've never seen him play scum. Only town. I do not like meta-based arguments, but my argument is not based in meta. I made a few statements about meta as a side note. Yet another misrep by Slandaar.

[DeltaWave]

Flip Flopping... thats 100 posts later, you never change your mind? Ridiculous accusation. I even have had Delta as scum for a while, so its not like i jumped from Fennin -> town read.

It's so deceptive to call it "100 posts later" when it was about 15 posts in your ISO. You can't count everyone else's posts to make it sound like there was a long time between these two posts. The problem is, you were like "STOP GUYS WE MUST LYNCH FENNIN TODAY" (complete with a pic of a stop sign) to "OH WAIT NVM WE MUST LYNCH DELTA TODAY!"

At the time you voted for me, your case was weak. You've build upon your case with new misreps when it became obvious that nobody was buying it (and several people actually ridiculed it), but let's look at your case

when you voted me

. It was weak. Everyone knew it was weak. But for some reason, that was enough to bring you from your apparently certain Fennin vote to your apparently certain Delta vote. Town doesn't flop around like that. The timeline is clear: you came out with this case against Fennin. It generally wasn't accepted. So you shifted gears onto me.

IS thing was a joke obv.

Yeah, sure it was. You consistently make these "the town must vote..." type posts and then you say it's only a joke when you start to bargain with someone for their vote. Unlikely.

Your meta stance changed from not willing to give a read using some meta to using meta to back your read. That is scummy.

Nope. I said that I didn't know your meta. As in, I don't know how you play scum

and

town. So I have nothing to compare it to. I can't say "Oh yeah, I know Slandaar's meta and he plays scum this way..." But I do know how you play town, and you are not playing town.

The rest of the case is Delta thinking 12 hours has anything to do with my case which it doesnt, at all. Which is what i repeatedly said.

The only interesting point is the 1st one, but amusingly its my town tell so whatevers, you need meta on me to know if thats scummy or not. I find it easier to read people by looking at their reads on me. I know how town and scum generally view me, I also thought Delta might mention something interesting based on meta, but he refused, then uses meta later...

It's funny that you would claim what many consider to be the #1 scumtell as your towntell. I sincerely hope that nobody buys that.

It's also great how you announce a lynch pool then announce that it's easily manipulated by scum. You're speaking out of two sides of your mouth. You want to get your lynch, but you also want that easy out by saying "oh well, I was voting based on a lynch pool and those are easily manipulated by scum." I'm shaking my head right now.

It's a major scumtell to be pushing for a lynch like you are pushing for a lynch, Slandaar. You want to herd people toward this vote pool regardless of whether or not they think the people in it are scum. A townie does not have the mindset that "any lynch is a good lynch, as long as it's not myself of course." I can't believe that I'm the only one voting for you right now.

Anyway, I've never been in a neighborhood. Is it true that a neighborhood must contain scum?

[DeltaWave]

Are neighbourhoods completely random? I mean, not just with the people in them, but also the roles?

How would the answer to this question benefit the town?

Helps analyze the implications of a neighborhood relationship.

[DeltaWave]

Yep i am deceiving everyone, so if someone makes 5 posts in a 500post game they cant change their opinion once? huh, seems good.

Nope. I have no problem with opinion change. But opinion change looks suspicious when you go from extreme certainty on Fennin to extreme certainty on Delta based on an insignificant reason.

Why? if i am scum does that benefit me? nope, it does not.

Actually, it benefits you quite a bit. You have generally coasted under the radar for this whole game. I don't think you're going to draw attention to yourself by getting into any of the popular fights that are going on (DJ vs. IS, IS vs. DV, and the general "Sken/PFoD" vs. lots of people melee.) You want to continue to remain on the periphery.

My case was always there, I just hadnt shown it all, a bit like your case? or did you invent your case after you saw mine cos you thought you would look bad?

I've been suspicious of you since my first interaction with you after replacing in. Your very first request of me was

what I thought of your alignment

, which is a highly suspect question because you weren't under fire at all at the time. If you were at L-2 or something, that question would make sense, but for someone who isn't under pressure... that question looks more like "Hey Delta. What do you think of me? am I town? PLEASE SAY I AM TOWN". Most players would be more interested in who I find most suspicious.

You still have nothing to compare it to, so your stance did change. The sample size of data did not increase therefore to say you wont use it as evidence, then say you will is 100% changing stance.

Whatever. I explained my position and it's reasonable, you're just playing word games at this point. I said I didn't know your meta because (up until this game) I didn't know how you played as scum. Can any reasonable person say "I know this person's meta" if they haven't seen them play both sides? Your argument here is poor.

lol, Delta, really?

Yeah, really. Don't you hate it when I catch you in logical contradictions?

Thats not my stance at all, I want people to lynch who I find scummy, I clearly defend certain people in thread, which is funny, because it shows i take stance, which was one of your accusations wasnt it? now, where have you defended someone? oh yeah, you havnt... any lynch but yourself right? Fence Sitting backs this up.

You must be out of your mind if you're going to try to spin defending (which is often a scumtell) into a towntell for you. This is one hell of a strategy. Earlier, you called your flip-flopping on cases to be your towntell, now you say that defending others is a towntell of yours too. What next, are you going to claim that nightkilling is a towntell? rofl. You are so much scum.

[DeltaWave]

Slandaar, why did you ask for a super quick sken lynch as opposed to a Delta or Captain (Fennin) lynch?

You should know by now that it doesn't matter who Slandaar lynches. Why

not

a super quick sken lynch?

[DeltaWave]

Ugh, after skimming through their posts, I have null reads on both Painted and Fennin/CG. Any chance of a Skenvoy/Delta lynch?

Interesting way to put it. "Any chance of a Skenvoy/Delta lynch?" It's almost like you care less about lynching scum and more about being on a safe (e.g. popular, well-accepted) bandwagon.

[DeltaWave]

Im sure Delta is scum, he failed to show where DV changed his posting style/backed off, hes just regurgitating what IS said without scumhunting himself or checking the facts.

Yeah, you're sure I'm scum. Just like you were sure Fennin was scum. And just like you were sure that you wanted a "super quick Sken lynch." You tend to be sure a lot yet you change a lot. I wonder why that is, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Anyway, you are scum. I'd go back and demonstrate how DV backed off if someone who isn't scum wants to know, but I'm not going to review pages and pages of this game because you want to distract from your flip-flopping and misrepresentations.

[DeltaWave]

I actually posted that too soon, I wanted to rag on you a little more for your "super quick sken lynch" comment. Oh well.

[DeltaWave]

Delta, who are my scumbuddies if im scum?

What's with you and questions like this? Your first question when I replaced in was what I thought of

your

alignment. (Not who I found the most suspicious.) Now you're fishing for more info. What, you know that I've got you pinned down and you want to see if I'm right about the rest of your team? This question doesn't benefit the town at all.

[DeltaWave]

you can tell who the townies are, its the people looking to sort out a lynch.

the scum are the ones sitting on their votes.

I think;

IS/Delta/Sken could all be scum

Hey, where did Fennin go in your list? You were so sure that Fennin was scum just before you voted me. You asked the whole town to sheep you and vote him. This is how I know you are scum.

Anyway, I shouldn't have to point out that you've been "sitting" on your vote for quite some time now.

Everyone should vote Slandaar. He was so sure that Fennin was scum. Then he was so sure I was scum. Then he wanted a "quick sken lynch" (uhhh, are townies supposed to like quicklynching?) Now he's got IS in the lead on his list. This isn't scumhunting, this is opportunistic scum looking for a mislynch.

[DeltaWave]

Delta, interesting how you question that. Seems almost like scum desperately trying not to lurk and making a nonsensical post.
And in response, I'm not going to have any say on who's lynched if I'm not on a popular/accepted bandwagon.

Pedit: That's exactly what it seems like you're doing Delta, including silly points like "are townies supposed to like quicklynching" when it was only because it was close to deadline really makes it look like you're trying to mislead.

Lol. There were four hours between my last post and this post. You think not posting for four hours is lurking? shaking my head.

Also: Quicklynching sucks no matter when you do it. I don't care about deadlines, we can extend deadlines. I care about people using the deadline as an excuse.

[DeltaWave]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: IS

Hey slandaar changes his vote again

What a shock

We've had OMG fennin is scum everyone get him! OMG delta is scum everyone get him! OMG sken is scum everyone get him! OMG now IS!!!

Oops thats four people lol

[DeltaWave]

dv: October 07, 2011
sken: October 18, 2011
dw: August 31, 2011
pfod: November 02, 2011

^^ these four seem to think this guy:

IS: April 07, 2002

is town.

I don't know what to think of either of you. I think you both have aggressive personalities and you happened to meet in the same spot and then you exploded.

[DeltaWave]

I'm going to take a guess about Slandaar's role.

"You are

Slandaar

. You must change your vote arbitrarily. You with the scum, when you control 50% of the town or nothing can prevent the same."

[DeltaWave]

Delta look at metabots posting history.

IS is active lurking, i saw him online.

You do make a good point on Metabot. He has seven posts, including his "Confirm" post, and the only thing he ever committed to was a vote on PFoD when it was a safe bet.

[DeltaWave]

Yeah, right Slandaar. It doesn't matter if you make a good point against Metabot because I'm sure you're scum, therefore all your reads are suspect to me.

[DeltaWave]

Shaking my head right now

[DeltaWave]

We still have 2hrs 40min by my clock

[DeltaWave]

I fail at time

[DeltaWave]

Mod

: So when is the deadline? I'm confused now.

[DeltaWave]

Mod:

Can you prod [J]? They haven't posted in over a week at this point.

[DeltaWave]

OK, back on topic.

I don't see how lynching for the sake of lynching helps the town one bit. And I'm made even more suspicious by Slandaar's (now-changed) vote on PFoD where he called PFoD town but voted for him anyway. It's better to lynch a townie and then have another townie die in the night instead of lynching nobody?

Granted, a no lynch is not an optimal scenario. But voting for someone

who you think is town

in order to avoid a no lynch is scummy as hell.

[DeltaWave]

^^ please take this shit to the discussion forum. it has no place in games. it has been generally accepted theory on this site for as long as i have been here that day 1 no lynches benefit scum more than town. i have already briefly described why. if you need more convincing, open a thread in the discussion forums.

That's not my point. My point is, which would you rather have: a no-lynch, or a lynch on someone you believe is town? Because Slandaar admittedly wanted the second with his PFoD vote and I find that scummy.

[DeltaWave]

My post was poorly worded. Unless we explicitly vote for it, there is no such thing as a "no lynch" in this game. The person with the most votes at the end of the day will be killed even if we don't reach the majority needed. This is why my case against Slandaar is so relevant. You could have kept your vote on Metabot and realistically obtained a Metabot lynch, but you moved your vote to PFoD to ensure that they would die by the deadline even though you declared them to be town.

Also, in 935, you accused me of not switching my vote to Metabot because I didn't want to "save town painted." Then you voted for PFoD in 943. lol. You can't have it both ways. At one point you were apparently convinced that PFoD was town, and that I wouldn't vote Metabot because I apparently don't want to "save" a townie. Then a few posts later you decide to vote for that townie.

[DeltaWave]

Votes were still getting passed around. My point is that you could have gotten a Metabot lynch.

[DeltaWave]

My point is, which would you rather have: a no-lynch, or a lynch on someone you believe is town?

on day 1, lynch > no lynch.

DW: i think i see your point. you have drawn a connection between slan and metabot. i.e. if metabot flips scum and pfod is town, then it looks like slan dodged his scumbuddies wagon. so we need a flip in there somewhere to help determine others. if metabot flips town, then i think it is less likely that slan's actions were scum motivated. i think we should get a claim from metabot.

My theory is that after failing to push a couple case-based lynches (Fennin, myself) and after failing to get a Sken quick lynch, Slandaar went for the juiciest target; a guy who is basically a lurker and has probably flaked the game. Metabot has done some shifty things but I don't think they're anywhere near the magnitude of Slandaar's scumminess. So a townflip on Meta isn't going to make Slan's actions less scum motivated. It might not make them more scum motivated, but it won't make them less, if that makes sense. (I'll have to think about that for a bit.)

[DeltaWave]

Noramp, you know what I'm talking about here. A Metabot lynch is just a lurker lynch and it's the easy way out. That's why I think Slandaar rushed over to that.

[DeltaWave]

If there is a cop, what do people think about the idea that he should reveal himself so that the doctor can protect him and we can all play follow the cop?

nope.jpg

Usually a setup like this will have a Macho Cop (cannot be protected by a doctor) to stop exactly this kind of strategy. Given the high chance that a cop will be macho if a cop exists here, a cop outing themselves would be suicide.

[DeltaWave]

That was a quick L-1. There's no way that I'm going to hop on a Slandaar-fueled wagon, unless the wagon is a fairly obvious attempt at bussing. Voting Slandaar for obvious opportunism (looks like he's not even trying to hide it at this point). I'm also pointing a FOS at DV.

VOTE: Slandaar

[DeltaWave]

It looks to me like you weren't sure you could get yourself a Painted lynch yesterday, so you moved onto a lurker lynch of Metabot. Easier to mislynch someone if they're not active and won't fight back. I don't think you were trying to "save" painted whatsoever because you voted him, and you wanted to see him lynched, despite calling him town. Now you call him scum because he won't sheep you?

[DeltaWave]

Delta, if im scum:

CG and Painted are both town:

No point me pushing metabot, hes useless for town, right?

So, if im scum:

CG or Painted = scum too right?

cant be painted as i thought i had 'hammered' him, or i faked that?

cant be CG as i pushed him hard before deadline.

So, work it out, is either of them my buddy? if so, you should vote them, because your whole reasoning is based on me saving a scum buddy.

Where did you get the idea that my whole case is based on you saving a scumbuddy? I don't think I've ever said anything remotely close to that. My case is built primarily around your opportunism and an incongruity between the certainty of your cases and your actions.

The rest of your post is WIFOM. Scum push hard on their scumbuddies all the time. Sometimes scum works hard to save town.

[DeltaWave]

All your recent ridiculous accusations have been based around someone else being my scumbuddy

no

[DeltaWave]

@Delta For someone who thinks there's only a small chance that I'm town, a FoS is kind of weak.

My vote is elsewhere, so a FOS is all I've got.

[DeltaWave]

And to be honest, I don't think this one's going to fizzle

Don't worry, if one more person unvotes, then Slandaar will hop to a new wagon.