Mini 1742: game over

[Titus]

VOTE: Taly

I see how it is.

[Titus]

Well hello you darling

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

RC, I'll give you a solid townread the whole game if you sheeped me in voting Titus.

Same offer goes to talah and Frozen.

Titus is a confirmed mayor. don't mess with the government

Wrong game? The only game this could apply is ongoing... :/

[Titus]

VOTE: Taly

I see how it is.

Get ready to 1v1

*sharpens claws*

VOTE: Frozen Angel

A little bit of pressure should thaw you.

RC, I'll give you a solid townread the whole game if you sheeped me in voting Titus.

Same offer goes to talah and Frozen.

We can't be three T masons. You hurt me.

[Titus]

very nice reasoning to make a wagon SO fast SO early ... So your saying we should lynch whoever we don't played before to just sort them out ...

2 votes is the start of a wagon, sure. Wagonning to get reads is fine until there's something better.


Yeah I'd lynch you at this point. Especially if you have nothing better to contribute than a counter-vote on RC, considering there have been several other things happening.

Edit: hi Titus btw. You scum this game? How am I gonna know...?

Sort me... While I sleep.

[Titus]

Man y'all talked a lot while I wasn't here. talah get less wordy, I had to stop myself from skimming.

VOTE: Wickan first post was shit. Others should vote here as well.

First, what do you think about RC townreading FA with his vote still there? What do you think about FA and talah's back and forth?

Tbh - I'm OK with the RC wagon atm, but I want to hear his response.

I can also do Wickan.... But one post isn't very convincing.

@talah how often are you accused of going too hard too fast? (teehee) Also don't say butthurt it makes you look 13

The sole thing that makes me unsure of talah is that she wasn't this quick to get serious and thoughtful in our town game - then again, that town game was an open that happened almost 5 months ago. So I don't think this holds a lot of water.

@Taly why Bells, talah, and Frozen specifically?

They were the first half to post after me?

I wasn't going to wait until after RVS before trying to get reactions; plus in my post, I was engaging with 4 other people - Titus included. So the likelihood that scum was amongst them was decent but not probable. Since talah sheeped RC, I wanted to see if anyone would sheep me on Titus if I townread them with no problem.

(Which I wouldn't, if nobody has pieced it together, yet.)

Basically, my RVS posts were to get reactions and I just took things as they came in terms of who did what.

In the end, the only 2 people I wasn't sure of are Titus and RC. Titus for reasons since she hasn't really provided anything serious yet, and RC because....

Yeah, I have a helluva time trying to read RC; I wasn't lying about that in the previous game when we were both mafia together.

vote who? I already voted him...

I think he meant Wickan

Vote Wickan, you're not doing that yet.

In retrospect, 39 wasn't very pleasant either.

Wickan, why do you call out FA for covering up her issue with talah but then you vote on RC? I'm not getting a game-solve vibe from you?

It's also a little embarrassing that I still have my RVS vote up...

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Wickan

@talah: I interpreted the townread offer by Titus to be completely in jest

Are you referring to me or Titus...?

yep that's actually an interesting case ...

VOTE: Wickan in L3

need to see his reaction about this wagon , first ...

@JohnnyFarrar why am I making you nervous?

This Wickan wagon is crap.

RC is voting someone who she has a townread on and didn't move the vote. Wicked points this out and votes RC.

Johnny immediately votes Wicked, saying his post is uninspiring. Hold on, wtf? Town shouldn't vote townreads unless deadline is here. Wicked is townish for the pressure. I don't get why a vote there.

Taly agrees with my reasoning on RC, yet votes Wicked anyway...

FA is basically flailing looking for an acceptable wagon.

VOTE: RC

[Titus]

So your argument is that I anticipated that crowd mentality would swing in favour of FA, so I announced that I was townreading her and left my vote there?

You can't have that both ways man.

That's what you were doing when I voted you. Then you OMGUSed me.

[Titus]

So a quick post about P5 before I do a more thorough combing through of certain early interactions:

As Wickan notes, Taly's 110 is filled with inconsistencies. However, the actual TONE of the post comes off exactly how mine do when I'm getting railed by someone as town for reasons I feel are absurd. My biggest issue is the countless number of times Taly said "this isn't reading as town", then bolds that it is a possibility he's reading me as misguided town. I'm somewhat torn about Taly now.

Then Wickan says this:

The problem, as occurred to me while I was writing it, was that the single best answer for why scum-Taly unvoted me is that I was also scum.

One of the big hallmarks of scum play is they so frequently admit things are possible, or that something makes sense for them as scum, only to brush it off in the next sentence. Town has

absolutely no business

saying this at all because if you already KNOW you're town then that thought wouldn't even enter your head, let alone "confuse" you enough to post it.

I legitimately feel like this was a substantial scum slip, as it shows insight in to a thought process that someone with a town role PM simply wouldn't have had.

A scum flip here would be extremely telling in regards to Taly too.

Unvote, Vote Wickan

. This should be L-2.

Wrong. I say that as town if someone jumps on me for a personality quirk.

[Titus]

Alright so a few things jumped out at me during my re-read. Frozen Angel in post 16 claims that calling someone a confirmed mayor was just spam. I don't really understand this. Can someone explain the joke? This whole interaction feels really weird to me.

Next, talah goes hard. Really hard.

Yeah I'd lynch you at this point.

That is page 1, saying he'd be fine actually lynching someone "at this point". Wow. Then:

I would *definitely* lynch you right now.

This is page 2. Shortly after he states that he hasn't joked about anything.

Taleh, had I put her to L-1 on page 2 would you have announced intent to hammer? I definitely approve of pressure early on but this is seriously over the top.

I've discussed my thoughts on Taly's Wickan vote, but I haven't said too much about FA's. FA pretty clearly voted for pressure, and Taly's unvote alleviated pressure. I'm having a really hard time suspecting FA for the vote though simply on account of Wickan looking so damn scummy right now, and Taly looking to have a higher likelihood of being a scum buddy. Additionally, I missed the first time around when Johnny actually pointed out to Taly that his vote on Wickan seemed "too easy", shortly before Taly's unvote. This strengthens my initial suspicion which has been weakened by other evidence. I think I'm just going to have to shelf that thought for now, because there are more interesting things actually.

So this interesting tidbit from Titus:

This Wickan wagon is crap.

RC is voting someone who she has a townread on and didn't move the vote. Wicked points this out and votes RC.

Um, no. This never actually happened. Wick

an

hadn't yet pointed this out. In fact, I can't find ANY mention of Wickan saying ANYTHING about Cowbells until well after the vote, and after Titus comes in and states why Wickan voted, despite Wickan not having actually said anything about this.

Am I missing something there? This is triggering some SERIOUS daytalk paranoia. Then Wickan comes in during post 77 and states that the things RC did to merit him voting her are "unhelpful and anti-town", though no mention of being scummy.

A side note, can we please not have 2 people with the same LoL character avatar, when we already have players who have names that are easy to mix up?

I am confirmed mayor in another game. Sorry you have trouble reading. Does your role PM say scum?

[Titus]

Am I missing something there? This is triggering some SERIOUS daytalk paranoia

Good catch, but slips are usually not the answer.

@Titus you mix him up with someone else?

Don't think so. Will quote later.

[Titus]

Well, usually I'm *that* guy that goes in deep on the first page or two but looks like we've got someone already doing it for me. Awesome. Gives me a chance to say "hello" to the handful of players here who I recognize from the old days.

Vote Wickan

. How is it scum motivated to push for information gathering regardless of what page it is?

Scum isn't necessarily. I interpreted that post by Talah as being completely serious, and to the extent it was serious I found it to be trying to find information where there was pretty clearly none. It felt to me like making a mountain out of a molehill.

@talah: I interpreted the townread offer by Titus to be completely in jest. Just normal mafia jabbering. It's not clear to me that that in particular points either way.

I clearly said I have no problems with your

[talah's]

vote. your tone in the other hand , don't seems like town

This is just plain not true. You did have problems with talah's vote; you thought (like I did) that they were making a serious vote off of obviously RVS/spam material (cf 15 22). I dislike that you try to cover this up.

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

Man y'all talked a lot while I wasn't here. talah get less wordy, I had to stop myself from skimming.

VOTE: Wickan first post was shit. Others should vote here as well.

First, what do you think about RC townreading FA with his vote still there? What do you think about FA and talah's back and forth?

Tbh - I'm OK with the RC wagon atm, but I want to hear his response.

I can also do Wickan.... But one post isn't very convincing.

@talah how often are you accused of going too hard too fast? (teehee) Also don't say butthurt it makes you look 13

The sole thing that makes me unsure of talah is that she wasn't this quick to get serious and thoughtful in our town game - then again, that town game was an open that happened almost 5 months ago. So I don't think this holds a lot of water.

@Taly why Bells, talah, and Frozen specifically?

They were the first half to post after me?

I wasn't going to wait until after RVS before trying to get reactions; plus in my post, I was engaging with 4 other people - Titus included. So the likelihood that scum was amongst them was decent but not probable. Since talah sheeped RC, I wanted to see if anyone would sheep me on Titus if I townread them with no problem.

(Which I wouldn't, if nobody has pieced it together, yet.)

Basically, my RVS posts were to get reactions and I just took things as they came in terms of who did what.

In the end, the only 2 people I wasn't sure of are Titus and RC. Titus for reasons since she hasn't really provided anything serious yet, and RC because....

Yeah, I have a helluva time trying to read RC; I wasn't lying about that in the previous game when we were both mafia together.

vote who? I already voted him...

I think he meant Wickan

Vote Wickan, you're not doing that yet.

In retrospect, 39 wasn't very pleasant either.

Wickan, why do you call out FA for covering up her issue with talah but then you vote on RC? I'm not getting a game-solve vibe from you?

It's also a little embarrassing that I still have my RVS vote up...

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Wickan

@talah: I interpreted the townread offer by Titus to be completely in jest

Are you referring to me or Titus...?

yep that's actually an interesting case ...

VOTE: Wickan in L3

need to see his reaction about this wagon , first ...

@JohnnyFarrar why am I making you nervous?

This Wickan wagon is crap.

RC is voting someone who she has a townread on and didn't move the vote. Wicked points this out and votes RC.

Johnny immediately votes Wicked, saying his post is uninspiring. Hold on, wtf? Town shouldn't vote townreads unless deadline is here. Wicked is townish for the pressure. I don't get why a vote there.

Taly agrees with my reasoning on RC, yet votes Wicked anyway...

FA is basically flailing looking for an acceptable wagon.

VOTE: RC

That should answer any outstanding questions.

Nice to say ABR and Wickan are town. Need a few more.

[Titus]

I voted him for his

first

post Titus. And that pressure is meaningless. (Especially against Bells.) Why is town any more likely to point out such an obvious dissonance between thought and vote?

RC's not town. His behavior isn't town. Why are you asking why town is more likely to be scummy? Unless I got your pronouns confused?

[Titus]

Why is town more likely than scum to pressure Bells for voting a townread?

It's exactly what I was thinking and that makes it more likely town.

[Titus]

Not knowing your alignment makes that argument super convincing.

*shrug* it's the truth.

[Titus]

Titus and RC are being scummy.

Wrong. I say that as town if someone jumps on me for a personality quirk.

You quoted me, but I didn't say anything about you in that entire quote. What do you supposedly say as town?

You then quote yourself, which I've read repeatedly and not found sense in the post. You're also defending Wickan again. Calling the Wickan/Titus scum pair is almost too obvious to be true at this point.

RC is pinging my scumdar for attempting to enforce his own meta. When I'm scum I always try to point out all the things I do as a specific alignment as a defense. It's a lousy defense because RC could actively be attempting to mimic his town meta in a game where many people are familiar with his play. Town RC would just be town RC and figure people would townread him because people know his meta.

I say what your alleged scu slip against Wicked is.

[Titus]

Did you ever consider that Titus has scumread me in every game we've played, one specific incident quite infamously?

You have been scum in every game but one though... :s

[Titus]

@ice, you are making no sense. My point was your alleged scumslip point against wicked is bollocks because I do abstract thinking like that as town. Now you're babbling incoherent nonsense that has no relevance to anything I have said.

@wickan, ice is actually my number 2 suspect atm.

[Titus]

Wait let's all just ask the same question a bunch -_-

I feel like we've hit a wall and won't get through it til Al talks, Titus can come up with reasons that make sense outside her oh-so-convincing "I know I'm town" perspective, or more people agree on lynching Wickan. Accurate?

I do have more reasons than that.

Wickan wagon sucks. The whole development of it was shit, like I said. Can shit wagons happen on scum? Yes, but they usually aren't fought as hard. Scum want a wicked wagon to avoid scumhunting.

[Titus]

I literally just did.

Reason Wickan is town

1) Wickan wagon sucks
2) people push stale wagon
3) Wickan is saying what I think.
4) ice scumslip argument is shit

I don't feel like walling. Deal.

[Titus]

I meant

why is Bells scum?

Not un voting when she had a townread
Voting Wickan for shit reasons
Trying to create dissection between me Wickan and abr

[Titus]

@wickan, ice wagon? Totes down for that.

[Titus]

Yes. It infuriates me to no end. If I use one strategy, ABR hates it and vie versa.

[Titus]

Awesome -_-

How do you go about reading that?

That is the dilemma of me and ABR. I go by warm tinglies or not.

[Titus]

You think RC and I have baggage, abr and I are worse. Lols.

[Titus]

Johnny, why so obsessed with lynching Wicked?

[Titus]

Trying to create dissection between me Wickan and abr

Titus I still don't know what this means. Use different words to say the same thing

Trying to create division. I meant to say dissention but autocorrect.

[Titus]

Wow, I'm being ignored.

VOTE: johnny

Naked votes are clothed-scum votes who don't want to be exposed.

I'm fine with my vote here, you completely dismissed me even when I called you out on doing it to others.

Plus what happened to the RC push you never expanded on?

Johnny, why so obsessed with lynching Wicked?

Titus, this is going to be the third I'm asking.

Why is ABR town - if you actually think he is?

>_>.... Also - if you want to talk about how someone is so worked on lynching another person - why is your vote still on RC? It has stayed there since. 64

You've given more reasoning on why Wickan is town (and why his wagon is shit) than you actually have on why RC is scum.

Feelies on ABR.

Cuz RC hasn't done any scumhunting since I voted her.

[Titus]

*him

[Titus]

I can't produce content effectively when I'm busy defending myself from idiocy.

There's other things to talk about other than my vote on you.

[Titus]

Hey, I'm not scumreading Ice, I'm just not townreading him all that much.

Regardless, Wickan is scummy as all shit and he's pushing on me to boot so I'm happy getting rid of that.

ABR is lurking like shit which is as far as I understand it exactly what he does as scum.

Stop attacking town. Ice is the only possible scum there.

RC ice ?????

[Titus]

Why tho

We have been over wicked and abr town, thus ice is the only possible scum.

Scum want townies under a microscope so frequently they'll answer about their buddy but find some way to try to draw the focus on town.

[Titus]

Hey, I'm not scumreading Ice, I'm just not townreading him all that much.

Regardless, Wickan is scummy as all shit and he's pushing on me to boot so I'm happy getting rid of that.

ABR is lurking like shit which is as far as I understand it exactly what he does as scum.

It's definitely what RC looks to be doing here. Taly makes a sweeping statement. RC says nope null reading ICE and then offers up two townies.

Ice has plenty of content to take a stand on.

[Titus]

Wickan, you misunderstood. I was telling RC that Ice has said plenty to where RC should be able to sort him. The fact she's null is troubling.

[Titus]

Yup. Scum like to fenceshit and busywork. Null reads on high content qualifies.

[Titus]

RC Taly Ice, are y'all scumbuddies again?

Since you can clearly use slightly scum and slightly town, a pure null read with high content is something I don't like.

[Titus]

RC, why you no fight me?

Vote me. :-p

[Titus]

Vote me Ice. If you think I am so terrible. Come on.

Wicked is town. ABR is probably town. Johnny is lean townbeard.

[Titus]

I literally just did.

Reason Wickan is town

1) Wickan wagon sucks
2) people push stale wagon
3) Wickan is saying what I think.
4) ice scumslip argument is shit

I don't feel like walling. Deal.

I answered this already FA.

Please don't make me repeat myself.

[Titus]

ABR, I still think RC is scum. Johnny has his moments of towniness. Would prefer Ice or RC wagons though.

[Titus]

Consider it done.

VOTE: Ice

VOTE: Ice

[Titus]

Who is this in reference to? Wickan or ABR?

Bruh the answer to this question is literally

on this page

, you gotta learn to not skim

Honestly, I just got tired of doing back and forth walls with you that weren't getting anything done. I couldn't seem to convince anybody that you were scum and it wasn't changing people's minds about me. I just thought my time was better spent elsewhere.

On Albert: I actually don't think he's scum. I mean, he's being completely useless, but I'd rather we lynch somebody we think has a decent chance to flip as opposed to a policy lynch.

Alright, I see why you didn't respond then.

Tbh, seeing as about 3 to 4 people so far have said that ABR does this as scum - makes me wonder if that's true here.

If we had to PL in this game - this isn't a bad time. But I do agree, several people are pretty decent lynch options to see flips.

Plus, I don't think ABR's flip will be void of information. Especially since Titus wants to gut-townread him while ABR plays somewhat to his scum-meta, from what I understand.

Plus, I rarely hear town say something like:

"Oh, get over yourself"

That is alignment-neutral irritation. You tried to come off as some martyr because town was pushing you for this reason and that and woe is me and it just annoyed me. I pressured you early to see where it would go.

sigh... I'm not trying to come off as anything, I'm stating what I think - if I misinterpreted it; then I'm all ears to here your side....

Eckh.... Association tells aren't bad D1, but Ice has relied a bit on those on his reads which feels like he's creating a little world that revolves around who needs to be lynched rather than looking at his reads in an individual light. If that's understandable.

I feel like this is also either a misrepresentation of my views or a demonstration that you don't understand them. I've clearly stated more than once that Wickan is, by far, the scummiest player in this game.

Also

, his scum flip will give information. There's a reason I'm NOT voting Titus, because without any flips, my associative tell is useless. You can bet that'll change day 2 if we get the relevant information.

I'd go with misunderstanding because I know you think Wickan is the scummiest person in this game, and that his flip will give info.

The thing that makes me think is - you put out a theory concerning that Wickan and I are scumpair, then Wickan comes in saying that I'm scum buddying you for the back and forth over my vote/unvote on HIM - himself.

From what I'm seeing - I'm being thrown out as an associative with several players at this point - and this isn't even considering Titus saying that I'm scum with RC and you, who you apparently scumread as well.

I don't think people see the how sticky of a situation this is - it causes all kinds of division and miscommunication, and the fact that people discredit me as "woe is me" and "youre a martyr" seriously makes me question their perspective in this game - IE, whether they have an agenda to push something as scum despite what may be presented, or town who actually wants to decipher between the game and work on it.

This is why I considered - and still leaning toward, you being town - and Wickan - being possible scum, for the inconsistencies I've seen of him - and the idea that he hasn't pushed anyone else yet after saying that my wagon isn't going anywhere...

That's my thought process.

RC Taly Ice, are y'all scumbuddies again?

Since you can clearly use slightly scum and slightly town, a pure null read with high content is something I don't like.

1)

A pure null read? I see pure-null as something of "Oh, can't tell - not inclined to look to much into it"

Each of my posts so far as of when Wickan and Ice post, is me engaging with them to create conversation.

2) Did I misread? How would you know if we had 3 scum? This alone is worth my vote.

3)

Love how you threw RC, Ice, and I together in some shit-association. Especially since:

Wickans vote is on me, he express he wants to get people to vote for me - but you only throw me in with RC and Ice's name and then paint my reads on Wickan and Ice as pure-null without trying to engage with me on my previous post about them.

You got ABR to vote - he went for Ice - after he voted for RC and John, and you've tunneled RC for the last 280 posts. Something I've never seen you do remotely as town. Please link a time where you did so if I am wrong.

Unsure of how to read ABR's 341....

UNVOTE: Albert B. Rampage
VOTE: Titus

We haven't had a true push on you.

Hope you sharpened those claws since RVS.

1) The latter is worse than the former.

2) LOL. Game size, mini 3 scum is true in 90% of games. The fact you try to argue scumslip from that is LOL.

3) Read my town games. :-p I tunnel as both alignments when I have scum especially when the top wagons are shit.

4) You gotta try harder. You can't mislynch ABR or Wickan with me being in the way. Haha. Sorry not sorry.

[Titus]

Scum is in

RC Taly Ice Johnny Talah ASP

Gut says nope to talah asp so like 10 there
Johnny I would only vote deadline against myself

There that's my reads till we get a flip or someone else obvtowns. :-p

You wanted more townreads here you go Italy. Lols.

[Titus]

Reading between the lines is scumhunting Taly sorry to bother you.

[Titus]

He's not scum. Nor is FA. Nor is ABR. I won't vote em. Would rather NL or be lynched myself.

[Titus]

So you're saying I townread your entire lynchpool, and I should think you're town? Hahaha.

[Titus]

You could be a major townbeard...

[Titus]

Your vote was shit and is always shit regardless of your alignment. If you're legit careless with your vote, why should I believe anything else you do is that thought out?
FA's vote on Wicked had no substance or anything just sheepage.
Taly agreeing with my read on you being scummy but voting elsewhere is

the exact way I caught you as blade dancer

Yeah, I do have an issue with Johnny not voting his major scumreads early.

None of the votes were good.

We established the votes on Wicked were shit.
I will votepark too if it is what it takes but not at the expense of discussing other reads. If all the wagons suck, vote park. But if they don't, then why not move?
Done on 3.
Done on 4.

So where is the beef to the Wickan case? It's been RVS that's stuck around after I started fingering the real scum.

[Titus]

ABR loves to not give reasons for shit. As scum he's more apologetic and justifies a lot. Infuriating but still.

FA, we're both town lols. Your vote still sucks.

[Titus]

Titus having Taly as confirmed town over IceNinja in this game really doesn't sit right with me.

Not that, like, anything she does or says does, but.

Umm what? Taly isn't confirmed town.

[Titus]

@Taly, I engage but hate walls this game.

Self meta is accurate probably but meta *farts*. You're ignoring your initial opening of RC is scum but vote Wickan.

@RC Sorry for your loss.

[Titus]

talah is nulltown at best because she hasn't added anything beyond FA, Ice, or Wickan - or in general, beyond several pages ago.

Sheesh, talk about your arrows to the heart. And here I was thinking we had nice confident townreads going on one another.

Anyway, I've done a bit more than that actually. I have JohnnyF as town, you as town, Titus townleaning and ABR some nullscum bullshit I can't read unless he decides to play the game. Simple Plan might be lurker-scum.

RC can be town just on principle. I don't see any deceptiveness coming from that area.
Ice I'm going to put back to null for now but I have some interest in getting something better. I've just been lazy and busy.
Frozen I might be mistaken on as scum but I'm keeping an eye on it.

I'll add to that, that what I'm seeing from Titus appears to be classic Titus town play - very little explanation you can actually follow and attempting to lead town with bravado. Surprisingly her possible-scumpool has both ICE and A Simple Plan in it - and although I'd prefer Frozen and ABR in there as well - realistically I'm rethinking both ICE and Frozen so I don't really have a beef with her.

So that's where I'm up to right now. Also I'm probably going to be casual / sporadic with this game I've decided (and this may just be a general playstyle change for me so that I can play mafia consistently rather than in huge work-heavy spurts), so get used to it.

Good scum don't lie Talah. The fact you're needing deceptiveness to have a scumread is a problem in your play. Recall Gundam Seed. I was largely townread, until I started getting cute and saying I had extra shots.

[Titus]

@Talah, Let's talk out Ice.

[Titus]

@Johnny I never read upon replacing in. D1 is the most useful day... when read in hindsight. Meta *farts*

That's ABR for you. When ABR and I agree on a lynch, you can bank on it. See Warcraft mafia. We both had Shinobi and TSB in our lynch pools. Both were scum. I wanted Nether he wanted someone else. Ice is scum.

I do want to beat you up for null reads. Yup.

@FA, I would die for Wickan. I am that strong on that read. It's not meta. It's the logical consistency, transparency and there's no coherent evidence against him. Aggression is usually protown if the thought process is clear. Buddying and manipulation are scum tools.

Oh and meta *farts*

@Taly hold on

[Titus]

Firstly I didn't really like his pushes on Wickan and Taly. And I must say I didn't read in depth much of the wallks they'd posted but I felt that Taly was pretty much obvtowning from what I remember of his play.
(note to self I need to check out Taly's 3rd party play)
However, I can perhaps see that as legitimate attempts to sort Taly since he doesn't have to have the same read as me and obviously won't have the same reasons.

Secondly I didn't like how he switched back on me with an argument like "well maybe you really WERE after a speedlynch". I felt it was not thought through and didn't match any of the evidence in the thread, and could have been just a maneuvre to open up another line of suspicion since Frozen was obviously not gaining any support.
I believe he responded to that though, saying he is going to be constantly checking his reads - which is fine and townish enough. It was the lack of thought in the supposition that irked me, though.

Aside from that I have (or had) a general feeling that his reads aren't really becoming clarified. Look I understand that especially as a game goes on sometimes reads *don't* get easier, especially because you're only going to be right in a certain amount of cases, but Day 1 I think optimal lynches should be considered and I don't think your lynch-pool would be getting greyer and greyer. Anyway that point there is mainly feeling. I actually like his most recent post and that's after I'd been doing some reflection on whether his posting was actually coming from a more town perspective. I'm prepared to start thinking about consensus/compromise at this stage.

I agree with this. Town should be open, consistent and transparent. Revisionist history doesn't fly. Determine what something is or isn't and change only with new evidence. My reads on Wickan and ABR are static.

The whole sell me a wagon thing because Wickan won't go through tells me he doesn't want that wagon going through because its scum pushed. You don't compromise from the leading wagon as town, you fight for your wagon.

[Titus]

While you completely disregard any attempt to talk to me about why Ice or RC is a good wagon to pursue - AND answer any fucking question that I have. But that's not the icing on the cake

See prior post.

[Titus]

I did throw suspicion, and thought that RC was a good wagon to start - but RC was never a scumread.

Furthermore; why was voting Wickan such a bad thing? I was suspicious of him as well.

Yeah, that's not how it looked. Throw initial suspicion = scumread.

Cuz Wickan is town.

Change the words push comes to shove, you had the same suspicion level and voted Town over Scum. That's going to ping for me.

[Titus]

Another thing - your hold rebuttal of me self-metaing is complete trash. You go from:

"Self-meta is kind of accurate..."

But then you just dismiss and say meta as if you dismissed the argument as if it were nothing. Yet you say RC and I are scum based on our interactions in our previous game as scum? 334 361 Which btw, is wrong - and that entire sentence was backwards.

Needs Rephrasing.

[Titus]

Titus what happens when Ice flips town?

He won't. Never considered it because I am right.

If he does, I will figure it out later.

[Titus]

And for the record, I absolutely 100% still believe that 110 was an attempt to buddy ICE. From the "I get in a lot of TvTs, especially D1" to trying to placate ICE's concerns to agreeing with his reads. It all looks like an attempt to deflect ICE's attention away from you and to other people.

I think it was more trying to sell Ice as town ad promote him as the smart man in the thread when he's scum.

[Titus]

Tipsy Titus is here.

Thanks Talah.

Why do you think ice is town?

[Titus]

You mean how Ice says this game has to be top priority to be town or subtly prodding scumreads. Yup.

[Titus]

RC u wanna hydra in Slavic mafia :-p

[Titus]

I don't like how Wickan is approaching the game trying to find cracks, it feels like he's patting around the dark for the path of least resistance to a mislynch.

That's what Ice is doing. Wickan is being clear about his reads. Ice says someone make a case. Wickan is saying here I am deal with it.

[Titus]

Titus are you going to take over this game, or do I have to, because RC is either scum or misguided.

I will let you. Any RC read I put forth she'll spin as drama. You me and Wickan have the same reads.

[Titus]

Also I actually agree. If you have ABR and Titus as your top townreads you should be voting Ice and I don't know why you would need wining and dining to make that decision.

You can townread people and think they're dumb.

[Titus]

Also I actually agree. If you have ABR and Titus as your top townreads you should be voting Ice and I don't know why you would need wining and dining to make that decision.

I really don't see that that follows at all. Just because they're my townreads doesn't mean I agree with them on everything.

Make the case for why ICE is scummy.

Look at his ISO. It's focused exclusively on breaking up our townreads and begging others for cases for the most part.

[Titus]

Also I actually agree. If you have ABR and Titus as your top townreads you should be voting Ice and I don't know why you would need wining and dining to make that decision.

You can townread people and think they're dumb.

Oh snap. Like I did you in Molla's large?

yeah now I'm getting to the point where I shouldn't post any more <3

Happens to me a lot lately.

See Blitz 1. ETL went on a huge rant on how terrible I was and had no scumhunting skills while agreeing with me and policy lynching me for being dumb. I had an all town wagon on scum and she helped scum wagon me.

[Titus]

VOTE: aSP

I want to see if people people will vote ASP or if it's a stunt still prefer ice

But if it's Wickan Talah or ABR endorsed I am game.

[Titus]

ABR finds me scummy because I pinged a lurker. It's conceivably possible that I've done that in literally every single 30-something games I've played in. How the HELL is that alignment indicative at ALL?

Ice says someone make a case. Wickan is saying here I am deal with it.

Nice cherry picking, the same post I say that I don't see myself voting for anyone other than you or Wickan.

Jeez the votes on me are AWFUL. ARB literally has no reason to vote me, Titus seems to be scum reading me because he hates my Wickan vote (STILL NEVER ADDRESSED THE FACT THAT HE TOWNREAD WICKAN FOR SOMETHING THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN), and talah sheeps a vote on me despite not being particularly convinced I'm scum. Yikes, if there isn't scum on my wagon then town has NO chance of winning this game.

Look at his ISO. It's focused exclusively on breaking up our townreads and begging others for cases for the most part.

I don't even know how to respond to that because it's so blatantly false. Holy shit.

I'm a little confused about how ASP's repetition of talah's read on ABR (despite being REMARKABLY similar in wording) indicates scum more than lazy. Though I will say his comments prepping himself for voting me before actually reading me is scummy.

Wow ASP is scummy but I will only vote two townies...

[Titus]

Dispute it? I was just typing out what Ice said. Nothing to dispute. It's what he said.

[Titus]

ABR stop derping.

[Titus]

To clarify: are you saying he actually copied the wording of your posts, or just that he's buddying up to you to look town?

Why can't it be both?

[Titus]

idk when I get a strong gut feeling it's nearly always correct and pushing Titus just feels really right here.

I don't think I'll be unvoting.

Well, you're scum or wrong.

[Titus]

I am going to vote scum and just watch all of y'all implode.

[Titus]

I'm still fine with a Titus lynch, and I will be 100% with you guys for pushing Titus tomorrow after Wickan flips scum.

I'm cool giving Simple Plan another day or two to catch up but if he doesn't after that I'm not sure he ever will, which is super unhelpful to town. He's on the scummy side too (not in my top 2, but leaning scum) so I wouldn't be sad to see him lynched, but I'll probably be less interested in that until I've seen Wickan and Titus buried. If the game isn't over at that point, We'll theoretically have more content from him which may or may not prove helpful.

I get your head when Wickan flips town or ASP flips scum.

No one can even articulate why Wickan is scum.

[Titus]

Everyone was willing to lynch him. Remember when I said I would get on to see what happened. What I see is a bunch of stammering and excuses to permit ASP to lurk and reasonlessly votepark obvtown Wickan.

[Titus]

About that obvtown Wickan.

I don't think you're going to get much traction from trying to persuade me, though, given that I'm essentially beyond a shadow of a doubt that you're scum for reasons that I will share fairly soon.

Why not share em now? In the rare event you're town, yer off course.

[Titus]

IF for some reason I'm wrong about Wickan, part of my case on you will be based on incorrect premises. If that does indeed happen I'll be somewhat more inclined to hear you out regarding Simple Plan, whom I will admit isn't currently looking particularly town.

Why not just vote ASP now and test both theories? Everyone has said they'd vote ASP and no one is justifying Wickan scum other than the fact I solved ABR and Wickan as town.

[Titus]

Nobody. We're going to let the game drag on for 3 weeks. Let's go hibernate. See you guys in Christmas!

I'm thinking about a ASP lynch. he is That inactive that I can see his flip more beneficial than himself

VOTE: Wickan

Bells, Taly, you just wanna lynch Wick right now?

Ewww

[Titus]

It pisses me off that Titus thinks that nobody can articulate why Wickan is scum because I can build a list on that, and I feel kind of dismissed by this notion.

Why haven't you articulated why Wickan is scum then?

[Titus]

Right, so, here's what's going on with Titus.

I noticed in 1708 where I was scum that there's some phrases, specifically y'all, that she frequently uses as a sort of tic when she gets frustrated or stressed.

Here were the posts from when she was basically getting shit on by half the game for her performance in a previous game.

OF course not.

I just don't vote "compromises" my scumreads are on. Y'all don't care. I get it. Basic people reading is beyond y'all in this game. It's ok.

Hammer Stool. He will flip town.

The last game y'all fucked up. My unorthodox strategies got us to 3p lylo where RC paid the price for her gamethrowing. Surprised she wasn't banned tbh.

I already told you why Stool is going to flip town. I will case him when I have time. Sometimes you know.

@RC + Chaos, and how many scum lynches did y'all get before my "terrible" reads? Chaos moves a few pegs down. If RC is town, I want Chaos for trying to prolong our fight.

If you look at her play in general you see that phrase exceedingly rarely and only when she's under some sort of strain and I had that pegged as a tell for reading her when I played that game.

I believe that considering her use of Y'all there doesn't match up with the stress or frustration tic usage and she doesn't appear to be under any pressure nor could I see it as being appropriate for just being used in general, that it was a conscious decision by Titus to try to soften my read on her. I have reason to believe that my using that as a tell for reading her may have been brought to her attention, and while it could potentially be used by town or scum, given that she's scumreading me I can't see it as at all likely that Town!Titus would be attempting to change my read in that manipulative manner, and think it far more likely that she's scum.

Plus, there's so many things she's said this game that just absolutely don't mesh with the rest of her kit and she's trying to set up battle lines between groups that I suspect badly misrepresent the gamestate. I want her lynched, end of story.

Of course I am frustrated. Obvtown is wagoned for points that haven't been articulated until 653.

Second, my use of y'all is indicative of a collective you all. It usually doesn't relate to frustration unless there is a general pattern of referring to the collective.

Wouldn't you be frustrated if your biggest townread was wagoned for no articulable reason?

[Titus]

Like, I just get such an incredibly strong feeling that she's trying to manipulate this game.
Her just happening to throw out Y'all at that specific time in that specific context just gets my goat.
Not to mention this little number.

Your vote was shit and is always shit regardless of your alignment. If you're legit careless with your vote, why should I believe anything else you do is that thought out?

Like, since 1708 ended and I apologized to her for what I said at the end of 1682 she's been extremely nice to me in general.
This really doesn't mesh at all and it comes in a post that strongly seems to me designed to manipulate how people see the gamestate.
I can't lynch anything else. this is scum.

Both town and scum try to manipulate the game. Persuasion is a friendlier version. I am trying to get you to lynch scum, but I think you're desperate to discredit me for some reason.

[Titus]

Titus obsesses over VCA.

People who obsess over VCA take steps to make sure VCA does not impugn them.

I would be not at all surprised if her partner was in the group of people she wants lynched and all of her townreads are WKs.

So I suddenly adopt a pro bussing strategy which isn't true to avoid a VCA which has been proven that only I do well?

Stop trying to fit everything to a Titus scum view. It's pretty transparent that's what you're doing.

[Titus]

Not on board.

The

way we've avoided Wickan is actually starting to creep me out.

Also edited so it makes sense grammatically

Why not reconsider you Wickan townread and realize that it's a scum driven wagon?

[Titus]

Not on board.

The

way we've avoided Wickan is actually starting to creep me out.

Also edited so it makes sense grammatically

Why not reconsider you Wickan townread and realize that it's a scum driven wagon?

Wickan scumread derp

[Titus]

FA... what was that vote? o_o Blegh.

I'm OK with a Titus lynch... but I don't like re-voting or unvoting after I set myself onto a decision. RC :c - Talk to me moe. I don't really want to change off of Wickan unless Titus becomes the top wagon.

I can see Titus WKing town.... But this is what gets me on that:

4) You gotta try harder. You can't mislynch ABR or Wickan with me being in the way. Haha. Sorry not sorry.

To me, this looks like she's trying to put attention on herself... This looks like a lot for scum to do. Titus must be hella confident. Figures.

But then again... Scum-Titus would know they were really town.... So she'd want a lynch on them that wouldn't involve herself...

That makes sense for her push on SP.

I don't care how Wickan flips in terms of Titus' alignment - her credit to me is below shit already and by the connections of your thought RC - SP+Titus s a real possibility. But I'm having a hard time trying to see Wickan as town...

>>>

Looking at SPs ISO.... I like that he's putting more thought into his reads, but my only wonder is if he ISOed Wickan in depth because that was something that I found suspicious of him....

Gahh.... I'd rather either lynch Wickan or Titus.

It pisses me off that Titus thinks that nobody can articulate why Wickan is scum because I can build a list on that, and I feel kind of dismissed by this notion.

Why haven't you articulated why Wickan is scum then?

Have you read ANY of my posts that aren't about you?

Oh wait - I should know, you even dismissed those type of posts as 'hate-walls'

Taly, I engage but with hate walls in this game.

Spoiler: Why Wickan Should Probably Die - Yeah, it's that long.

But here's my list on why Wickan is scum (Granted, my view on this is slightly changed over what RC said)

1)

This in itself is worth of thinking Wickan is likely scum, but I'm not done yet.

This is how I’m seeing this entire thing play out.

>Ice originally scumreads me and votes me for my vote on Wickan for being opportunistic. 69

>Wickan says that the votes on his wagon was natural. 77

>I defend and explain myself to Ice while telling him why I dislike the case.

>Ice then expands on why my unvote looked like scum trying to hide a 'mistake' 80

>Wickan still doesn't really say anything against that other than that it was weird. (His posts before 113)

>I explain myself further and rebuttal Ice's theory on why Wickan and I are scumbuddies because I unvoted him.

>Ice baits me that I'd have safely voted for him if I were scum - I didn't as I said that I could see him being town. 96

>Wickan is now saying that my original vote on him was opportunistic - after saying his wagon was natural - but then says I'm scum trying to buddy up with Ice. 113

Basically, Wickan's major contradiction about his wagon - it feels like he's jumping at me opportunistically since I've already been given enough shit about a damn vote/unvote on HIM, himself.

2)

406 - He says that I WILL dispute EVER having a townread on Ice - but apparently I'm buddying him too? Even AFTER I said I was saying that I was beginning to see Ice as town?

437 - He then calls me out since I never townread Ice?

(Uh, I guess he didn't read 344)

Then he deems my whole read progression on Ice to be disingenuous. He blatantly misreps my read on Ice, denies me - and still thinks I was trying to buddy Ice after our confrontation on

PAGE 5.

3)

Speaking of him painting my interactions with Ice as buddying...

When is it a bad time to step away from a 1v1 and reconsider your positon?

Because it saves town.

I mean, I get into a lot of 1v1s and dichotomies are corrosive as fuck especially D1 when a lot of the time, scum love to slide in some form.

Most of Wickans vote on me is because I'm scum and trying to buddy up to Ice... It makes zero sense for me to buddy Ice, furthermore - I never thought consideration was dangerous.

4)

Wickans vote has been on me for 500+ posts. He has done absolutely nothing sense then, tbh.... He comes in at intervals that make little sense for town to be input on - and he continues to assert one thing without doing much about another.

His tunnel of me is full of contradictions -

look at the previous points.....

I just can't see this coming from town.

5)

I think Wickan is being bussed, and I still think that... Granted, FA jumping off slightly diminishes that thinking because I couldn't - and still can't, but a name exactly on who could be going after Wickan as a partner. But this whole push-pull on Wickan today in terms of his wagon constantly being the top and not moving much really looks weird.... We need a decision about this, and Wickan not coming in here and speaking much of anything about it makes me think this is scum.

So there. Those are my thoughts on Wickan. I'm open to a Titus lynch provided I see more that overthrows my initial decision on believing Wickan is the better lynch of today.

And I want to look at SP more thoroughly next dayphase.

So yeah. ._.

First part about changing wagons is rather www if I am right and Wickan is town as well (I am). She wants to keep town as the top wagon and that's the primary motivation there.

Then there's a shit ton of theory crafting to overreach and basically discredit. If Wickan is town, Titus is trying to make sure that the wagon doesn't include her. If Wickan is scum, Titus tries to save a buddy. Taly sheeps RC's wagon reasoning (but with totally different words) but then calls RC scum.

Taly's defense of SP is off. There's no evidence of that. ASP posted "this is Wickan's ISO" I find it scummy is not showing depth of thought whatsoever.

I read your posts. I also never called your walls hate walls. I said I hate walls.

Your reasons for Wickan is scum are not reasons. You IioAed the thread and made many contradictions yourself. You complain about Wickan's vote being parked but ignore my highlighting the Wickan wagon has been vote parked since RVS. You deny that you and Ice have been up each other's ass the entire time but in a less transparent manner. You refuse to reconsider your reads or provide analysis on why Wickan is scum.

[Titus]

Tempted. Part of me thinks Taly is trying to recreate 613 to frame RC.

Talk to me about Johnny. Your read there.

[Titus]

I have had moments that make me go that's town and that's scum, so it would help me if you went deeper.

[Titus]

There has to be something against him to address.

IIoA is information over analysis.

I meant ewwww when autocorrect changed to www.

There are no contradictions in Wickan's posting.

You have contradiction. You just said RC could be scum and now claim you never scumread RC.

[Titus]

@johnny, you're not. You only moved on after someone commented they wanted to lynch ASP.

[Titus]

Wickan is ballsy if he's scum.

Best move for his survival would be to join a main wagon, not hold out.

VOTE: Taly

Did you consider Wickan ASP though? Wickan's pretty obvtown to me, but your leap here isn't something that makes sense.

[Titus]

If ASP-Wickan, then he votes you over his buddy.

And if he fears getting lynched when I flip town?

[Titus]

VOTE: Taly

Was me.

[Titus]

VOTE: Taly

Making it legal.

[Titus]

So yeah this is hella confusing for me. GG scumteam.

You me Wickan ABR are town. That's the answer.

I am willing to vote anywhere not in those 4 names.

[Titus]

Him not voting either of his two counterwagons is actually a point in his favor.

No actually it isn't.

Yes it is. Either he is ridiculously overconfident scum or town.

[Titus]

Join us Talah. Then all my major townreads can be on the same wagon.

[Titus]

RC, why? This tunnel just seems like you're pissed I saw ABR and Wickan were town before you. Every time I try to get in your head, you give me non sensical rage.

[Titus]

If it was, I wouldn't have called it non sensical posting.

Why do you think I am scum?

[Titus]

You just come off as pissed that I saw ABR and Wickan as town before you did.

[Titus]

I'm obviously town and Wickan is too, but RC did write his reasons for lynching you that has nothing to do with that.

I haven't understood any of them.

[Titus]

There's no reason this Wick wagon shouldn't be happening. It has enough stated support.

Maybe cuz it's scum driven? You think of that?

[Titus]

RC tunnel on titus actually give me a good feeling. I saw RC as scum likes to branch and bonde to find a suitable place to vote

Disagree on this, I've seen him latch on to one person unmovingly as scum as well (hell that one person

was Titus

last time)

Bonus, my read on RC scum was right.

[Titus]

@Frozen, I got like 20 alts. Most are hydras. Dr. Vahlen, Concorde, Blade Dancer and The Light are all me. The rest are hydras.

Why did you just IioA the thread in a incomprehensible manner?

[Titus]

I know it is, but should we? If we decide he hides behind a townie that's two townies dead tonight.

Hiders die if hiding behind scum as well.

Still, it's the best play IMO.

[Titus]

Wickan dies if hiding behind town only if the townie is shot.

[Titus]

A pool is a good idea though. We should have the scummy pool with choices. This way in order to stop Wickan scum have to shoot scummy townies.

[Titus]

ASP, Bells, Taly, Frozen, Ice

That's a good pool to lynch and a good pool for Wickan to hide in.

[Titus]

@Frozen, Wickan's job is to die. His death is his feedback. This isn't sc2 where heals get notified. Doc on Wickan = scumclaim.

@Wickan, that's the point of your role. Your death brings us info. You target scummy players. You don't have a specific one to hide behind so scum can't just NK the townie to get two kills.

Ideally we want a pool with at least two townies and a scum in it (all of whom look suspicious).

[Titus]

that will save wickan and his target from death if his target is town. (isn't it?) and wickon will still die if his target is scum

Doc on Wickan's target doesn't save Wickan.

[Titus]

So I don't know about you guys, but in my 30-something games I've seen scum fake claim hider I think 3 times, and it's virtually never actually played in normal games. Does anyone here have any experience actually having a legit hider in a normal mini?

I don't believe the claim.

I have seen hider enough. Second, the mod has 1-2 non normal roles to use at their discretion.

[Titus]

I'd rather we just outright state who he's hiding behind. I don't completely believe the claim so at worst we lose two people we were thinking about lynching anyway. Anything else either confirms or condemns people.

But that's a recipe for a surefire death. There's no way that helps town.

Agreed. You should have a pool of 3 names.

[Titus]

I'd rather we just outright state who he's hiding behind. I don't completely believe the claim so at worst we lose two people we were thinking about lynching anyway. Anything else either confirms or condemns people.

But that's a recipe for a surefire death. There's no way that helps town.

Agreed. You should have a pool of 3 names.

Not agreed. Breathing room for him means he might be living unconfirmed for a while and gives scum breathing room to shoot who they want because

odds

Each day Wickan lives, a new conftown is added to the pool.

This greatly forces scums hand.

If we reach lylo plus one day and Wickan is still suspected as scum, then we lynch him. Wickan should be lynched then. Worst case, we get a conf clear.

Scum should have a dillema on who to shoot. Let's say the hider targets are me ABR Ice.

Scenario: 1 flip within pool. We know if Wickan is town, one of ABR/Titus/Ice is town to be confirmed by Wickan.
Scenario 2: 2 flips, one within pool the other Wickan. We forced scum to shoot someone scummy. Wickan died BC he targeted scum.
Scenario 3: 2 flips, one outside the pool, one Wickan. Scum confirmed within the pool. Lynch must be within the pool.

[Titus]

Having a confirmed hider target just tells scum which towns person to shoot to get two kills.

[Titus]

ASP, ABR, ICE

That should be the hider pool.

[Titus]

That pool has one lurker, one person in Titus ABR Wickan and one of my scumreads. Pretty fair.

[Titus]

Makes sense. I'm actually fine with that pool as well.

Does that mean those 3 are not to be lynched? Who else is there for lynching?

If we lynch one of the three, we sub in from the same category. If we lynch ABR (which is dumb), I become a hiding candidate. If we lynch Ice, we can add RC. If we lynch ASP, we can add Talah.

[Titus]

To be clear, Talah is not a lurker both both sides appear to townread her.

[Titus]

We should lynch Taly or RC.

*bats eyelashes*

RC seems far too desperate to eliminate me with no plausible reason.

[Titus]

Yeah ASP works too, but I think Johnny would move if he was willing.

[Titus]

for the record I have no discernible read on talah

VOTE: Bells

I'm actually weirdly ok with both this and the fact that our pool plans are missing myself, Taly and Frozen

VOTE: RC

[Titus]

RC is a really bad lynch and it feels like OMGUS from you Titus...

Why? Without referencing RC's skill, why is she worth keeping?

[Titus]

So help me Al I'm starting to like you

Why won't you vote ASP?

[Titus]

VOTE: ASP

@Talah, Correct

@Johnny, Hell even I am Nked a lot N1 lately.

[Titus]

Wickan (3): ICEninja, Taly, A Simple Plan
Taly (1): Wickan
Titus (2): RadiantCowbells, Frozen Angel
ASP(3) ABR, Talah, Titus
RC: Johnny

[Titus]

Makes sense. I'm actually fine with that pool as well.

Does that mean those 3 are not to be lynched? Who else is there for lynching?

If we lynch one of the three, we sub in from the same category. If we lynch ABR (which is dumb), I become a hiding candidate. If we lynch Ice, we can add RC. If we lynch ASP, we can add Talah.

For Taly.

[Titus]

Thought he had more. Oh well.

VOTE: ASP

So to be clear, if ASP gets lynched Wickan will be hiding among Talah, Ice, and Al.

Yes.

[Titus]

RC, thoughts on the pool of 3 ASP?

[Titus]

*hider pool and ASP for clarity

[Titus]

Yeah, people feel that way about me often.

Guess who does make it to LyLo?

We don't lynch her today she doesn't get lynched, I guarantee you.

Can we stop with this "sheep me" shit that 1/3 of this playerlist loves doing? This is why I'm not keen on RC the past few pages.

I'd like my questions answered for once.

Keen on RC?

Just because I've beaten you all as scum at least once doesn't mean that we're autolynching me because you're afraid you can't read me.

This is sheer lunacy.

Can you stop fearmongering and actually try to sort anyone?

Seriously, if I am town, it's not a problem if I don't get lynched. I am.

If you need me sorted, you could poke to put me in the hider options and vote to lynch.

You don't seem interested in solving the game but just rambling.

So I ask again, hider pool and thoughts on ASP.

[Titus]

1) Yes. We can wagon who we want. We just have a replacement if ASP is lynched. Right now its Talah.

Rest aren't for me.

[Titus]

I spent this entire day trying to get people to lynch Titus and now you're trying to lynch me because me trying to lynch her is apparently not producing content.

New flash: not until she's dead will you have me committed to content form that's not about her.

You want to scumread me, you want to lynch me, be my guest. I caught scum, I'm done now.

You're just wanting to tunnel and avoid content. There's no way there is just one scum.

Why refuse to engage anyone?

[Titus]

Wait so, do people believe the hider claim or are people just putting off lynching Wickan on the off chance he's actually a hider and dies during night phase?

A hider is a perfect scum fake claim. A cop is going to get shot, so a cop surviving the night is suspicious, A scum fake claiming hider could just claim to hide behind some random townie that scum is fine shooting the next night anyway.

If we do want to give him a chance on the off-chance that he's ACTUALLY a hider, I'm really only wanting to lynch Titus. Maaaaybe Simple Plan, but that's only if we really aren't going to lynch Titus.

Since I've never played with a hider before, can someone explain to me the idea behind this hider pool? It seems like if he hides behind scum we have a lynch pool of 3 people which isn't terrible, and it reduces the risk of scum killing 2 townies with one bullet. How do we pick who to put in the pool? Titus is literally the last person I want picking the people.

We're really trusting him, though. If he "confirms" town, can we actually be confident it isn't a fake claim?

That would force scums kill each and every night ad finitum, regardless of reads. If scum kill conftown, then they cannot kill those scumreading them.

Plus, any doctor would be on who Wickan clears. Your fear setup depends on a lack of a doctor, which is a large assumption.

Third, Wickan has to have a clear at any time after d1, so lynching him at lylo plus 1 day is guaranteed to have a clear.

If Wickan is scum, he has that date as his death certain.

The setup you have here again is if town is optimal, lynch another town. You aren't engaging much either.

[Titus]

Actually, ASP does point out another problem with the pool.

Say the pool contains Alice, Bob, and Eve.

Say tomorrow I'm dead and Bob is dead. There are 2 possibilities
1. I hid behind Bob and scum targeted Bob, we both died.
2. I hid behind Eve, who is scum, and scum targeted Bob. We both died.

From town's point of view, these look identical. And I'm not sure either should particularly be considered more likely.

Correct. That is not ideal. Yet in free for all, we would not even have that.

[Titus]

Can ABR Wickan and Talah just agree on it?

[Titus]

You are wrong, his scum meta contains the same shit.

Hider pool is happening. We're not letting claimed hider stumble around in the dark, it makes the entire claim useless to us.

Why is Titus happening?

Last refuge of scum to break up me Wickan ABR.

Wickan will be unlynchable due to claim soon enough until lylo plus 1 day. Given my insistence on a case on Wickan and Wickan likely being high prob town tomorrow, I would be less likely to be lynched in future days.

Scum cannot effectively 180 after ABR because ABR is not scumreading Wickan anymore.

It's the same people who vote parked Wickan which I said was a scum driven wagon.

Pick someone who isn't me Wickan ABR Johnny Talah today. I am there. No more jumping.

[Titus]

we can't confirm wickan as town if he don't find the scum.

No, but we confirm precious information regarding alignment.

Even if Wickan is scum, he must remove one person from his personal lynchprool each day. The longer Wickan lives as town, more info. As scum, more associative tells. As scum, he'd be forced to abandon the claim.

[Titus]

Johnny, let's vote Taly together?

[Titus]

This ABR push looks a lot like Warcraft ABR.

VOTE: Taly

[Titus]

You guys can do that one without me. I can't believe Taly's scum game is this radically different from the last time I saw it.

You said this a lot. Which game?

[Titus]

Last game. The one Bells, Taly and Silver won as scum. Taly just clammed up in that game

That's not my impression at all of that game.

[Titus]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=63741

[Titus]

I win

I suppose you could argue he only clammed up after Bells bussed? But he was straight absent from most discussion on this thread

I focused more on his activity after I entered. Taly was midline in activity by the overview. His content and pushes are what should be compared.

[Titus]

I mean as much as you could call anything he's doing a 'push' those are similar I guess. Content wise there's way more 'WHY ISN'T ANYONE LISTENING TO ME' this game which strikes me as something someone who hides as scum would avoid doing

He doesn't hide as scum though. As town, he's much more dispassionate.

[Titus]

ABR... I have more games where town lost in scenarios I was mislynched

Plus if I were scum, why would I give a fuck about trying to communicate with you at this point?

Nothing I'm saying is getting to you, and tbh; you sound somewhat irrational at this point - I'm not trying to be insulting or anything, but you are cutting off all ability of reasoning I can have with you.

I'm tired of defending myself while trying to get my thinking through your head. You twist, ignore, and assume.

Nothing is changing anything here except my lack of ability in seeing you as town regardless of association.

Nope. Textbook and infuriating ABR. He wrote a wiki guide in 2008.

[Titus]

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... em_Lynched

[Titus]

I'm not infuriated, I just play aggressively. It's more fun. We have to find ways to enjoy the games we play, right?

People from the site say that they imagine me writing posts with a smile on my face after they met me.

Why do you never buzz me when you're in SF?

[Titus]

40 pages in...still no lynch...I see nothing worth sheeping on the ABR vs. Taly 1v1. Johnny is probably the only player I trust enough to sheep and he's against lynching my main scum read, so I don't even know what to do right now.

Scum somehow managed to get us talking in circles like crazy, this is insane. I somehow feel like there HAS to be scum in one of the active players because I feel like town is rarely this fragmented. ASP seems like a good bet as scum if town really is this fragmented/being distracted heavily by scum.

I still want

ANYONE other than Titus

to be the one to decide on the hider pool.

Everyone contributed. This isn't an edict from Queen Titus. You spinning it as such is scummy.

You first argued against Wickan town. Yet, it's proven he likely is or he put himself in a bad position as scum.
You argued against the pool, until everyone was for it.
You argue that someone other than me picks the pool, despite everyone else agreeing for the most part and the pool incorporating all major suspicion categories to help break the stalemate.

You are just arguing to be contrary to me at this point. I wish people would wake up and lynch you.

[Titus]

Not necessarily but stubborn antitown that cannot support any of his opinions with factual evidence, yes.

[Titus]

Love a good Socratic. Fire away.

[Titus]

If you look at Ice's ISO, none of his pushes are supported but for maybe the Taly push. The Wickan votes and ABR push were particularly bad.

Bells is not a strong read. I can't find her logic anywhere. I wouldn't mind if she died.

Town.


Your Talah read and why?

Are you frustrated by the fact we can't get you me ABR and Talah to agree on a lynch?

Setting meta aside, how do you read Taly?

[Titus]

And if I gave you another town game I suspected Taly in, could you analyze it for the same patterns?

Do you see any points to ICE scum? Your read there?

Ask me questions?

[Titus]

Battling my laziness already by reading Ice ISO hold up. How you feeling about his Bells push?

Are you on Al's side of the "Bells should be next in the hider pool instead of Talah" statement?

Something that gives me the cold sweats about you is your scumreading of anyone who scumreads Al, coincidence?

Not a fan, nor do I see him doing much of a Bells push.

Not really. i prefer two townreads in the pool so scum can't shoot the town in the pool guaranteeing Wickan death.

Probably. Scum seem unified in not bussing and desperate to tear into the townblock.

[Titus]

@Talah, Strongman not required. Healing the hider's target which scum shoot means only dead hider.

I want Ice most but I am fine with anyone not Wickan Johhny ABR me or you.

[Titus]

Fine with tat but you need to include ABR.

Fix that and I will do mine.

[Titus]

Derp he is there and I am done already.

[Titus]

You not jumping on my wagon.

You're up. She said popcorn to who is on.

[Titus]

We could probably fill in RC too.

[Titus]

FA, edit your list in of unlynchable and preferred lynch please.

[Titus]

Yup.

So RC needs to add hers. ASP and Wickan too.

[Titus]

Good. To go ABR RC and ASP.

[Titus]

Abr put your unlynchables and preferred lynch in there please.

[Titus]

It actually highlights the scumteam. Trust me rather than policy lynching BC it's not how you think.

*bats eyelashes*

[Titus]

Ok great.

VOTE: ASP

[Titus]

No it's not. The vote patterns make it clear.

Wickan is town. This wagon has a very similar composition to Wickan.

[Titus]

Woot! A bus vote!

[Titus]

Now your list ice.

[Titus]

Wickan don't you dare hammer that.

[Titus]

@Titus: why not?

Because Talah is town.

[Titus]

Why?

Why isn't she town? She's had clear articulated responses and I see where she was during most of the time. Scum want her dead too.

[Titus]

It's a post that definitely means Taly and talah are not scum together.

Buddies don't go that far to bus, as they can't go back on that easy.

Still Talah may have a latent God complex/gambit/frustration that would justify the vote.

Also thoughts change. I almost never fakeclaim until I found it necessary to. Advice to others frequently we don't take.

[Titus]

ASP [9] {Titus, talah, Johnny, RC, Taly, Frozen, Wickan, ABR, ICE}
Frozen [8] {Titus, talah, Johnny, Taly, Wickan, ABR, ICE, ASP}
ICE [8] {Titus, talah, Johnny, Taly, Frozen, Wickan, ABR, ASP}
RC [7] {Titus, talah, Johnny, Taly, Wickan, ICE, ASP}
talah [7] {Johnny, RC, Taly, Frozen, Wickan, ABR, ASP}
Taly [6] {Titus, RC, Frozen, ABR, ICE, ASP}
ABR [6] {talah, Johnny, RC, Taly, Frozen, ICE}
Titus [4] {RC, Frozen, ICE, ASP}
Wickan [2] {RC, ICE}
Johnny [1] {ABR}

If this lynch list is actually true, then why can't ASP get a wagon? People keep countering ASP and voting and parking obvious town reasonlessly.

Ice has been almost every wagon only bussing ASP when this pattern became apparent.

Town should not have their name all over this list. Town should be narrowing down possibilities for lynch. You know who will lynch a lot, ASP, Ice and Frozen, RC and Talah.

[Titus]

*Talah = Taly

[Titus]

this is not the list of what people want to lynch. its just the inverse of the list that people don't want to lynch.

Right. Town should be on that list sparingly, not frequently. Regardless of method, solving the game means fewer lynchable players. Major resistance to a wagon shouldn't happen if so many are willing to lynch those players.

[Titus]

It is. The list proves who isn't scumhunting.

[Titus]

Just vote Talah guys. The game is stalling for no other reason than you not voting Talah.

The game is stalling because we refuse to lynch town. Use that brain behind your ears. I will no lynch before I vote anyone in my won't lynch pool.

[Titus]

Come grab me when we decide to lynch scum.

Peace out.

[Titus]

The hider claim is more reason to trust not less.

[Titus]

Wrong. It's a terrible fakeclaim. It can be leashed as we have done. If anyone else is not normal Wickan gets turbo lynched. He doesn't live to lylo.

[Titus]

No. That's why the pool and why Wickan doesn't live until lylo.

Literally my townreads are town. If y'all are gunna vote town I am not helping.

Call me when there's a scum wagon at l minus 1 I am not on.

[Titus]

Anyone not me ABR wickan johnny or talah

Don't care. Hider is possible.

[Titus]

Talah stop self imploding.

[Titus]

We have weeks and you're hammering a read you think is town asp?

[Titus]

If you think Frozen is who we should lynch vote her

[Titus]

Talah flips scum we autolynch Taly tomorrow.

Why?

[Titus]

Down for asp.

[Titus]

Yes. No one is objecting to an ASP lynch.

[Titus]

I'm not voting ASP.

It seems clear, ridiculously clear in fact, that he's been scum's pocket mislynch for when one of them gets pressured.

Why are Taly/Talah scum together? These 3 reasons.

1) That "pm before game" comment. Last time someone made it aka Slavic Mafia 1? Scumbuddies.
2) Taly immediately voted Talah for the unvote then made an extremely coachy comment while hinting that he should unvote. Talah then unvoted.
3) Taly went from scumreading Talah to townreading as soon as serious momentum occurred there was an 180 and he backtracked.
4) Crazy waffling from both about their reads on the other. Here's an example.

>Now back to talah - Self-voting to bait yourself to scum can easily backfire and seriously be unhelpful; but I don't exactly see the scum-motivation if it was a reaction test as talah said. Though, this is partially why I want to keep my vote on talah to see the flip; and because we're in 50 pages of the game and this is just getting stupid at this point without a flip - specifically since talah's DOES give a really good amount of information either way, and I really am torn on talah at this point.

Also, the inverse list is very interesting - it's terrible, but useful; that's another reason why I want talah's flip, to see the motives behind it can know what mindset this came from and be able to interpret it late-game.

So there's my head.

I want talah's lynch, but I'd kick myself in the face if she flips town. But I'd be more comfortable with Ice or FA at this point...

But you know. If anyone wants to 1v1, talk, solve, or question me - I'm here.

Can you grab both posts you think are similar to each other? The coaching posts?

Now that RC's here and playing, I like her and want her in my no lynch pool for today. I would be open to Taly trying to frame RC as her buddy knowing I would jump on her word choice.

[Titus]

If RC supports her case, I will vote Talah here. Just need to check the evidence out.

[Titus]

Yes. Her case is valid. I need to see if it is sound.

[Titus]

What do you mean if RC supports her case?

If she provides the quotes from the places she mentioned and they support the conclusion she draws.

[Titus]

I am most concerned with the pm before game comments.

[Titus]

You're saying if RC supports RC's case, I read that as if RC supports Talah's case.

My bad. I think RC female because of the avatar. I make this mistake a lot.

[Titus]

I am most concerned with the pm before game comments.

RC, focus please

[Titus]

Find us a scumfuck Jeanne.

I am sorry that is impossible as ice was scum.

[Titus]

Well, I receive much flak on my games for playing bad as town and he receives free pass on that?

My heart likes this. My gut and brain do not.

[Titus]

Prod dodge

[Titus]

That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that we've been through this about RC, and not only is you case weak and inaccurate, but in targeting someone for the same reasons he's been targeted all game, when it is in fact his town play to do what he's doing, you're trying to score an easy mislynch on him for anti town play that's not even scum. Admitting you know the difference and are doing so anyway makes it worse.

He tunnels on me as scum too. It's a null and we have discussed this.

For the love of God can we lynch someone?

[Titus]

Titus won't help you on anybody else. Titus only helps herself.

VOTE: jeanne

I am willing to die for my townreads, something you would know if you read.

[Titus]

Titus help.

Join me. Been saying ice was scum all game. Let me have this one boo.

Town hasn't been able to lynch. Scum have wagoned my townreads.

Boo bear asking you this time let me.

[Titus]

I am no longer sure what's happening.

The townblock is lynching Jeanne.