Mini 1804: Poker Mafia (Game Over)

[Shadow_step]

Here and reading

Wow, this is the game of confusing acronyms. First FA_Q2 and Fire Assassin, and now this. Watch, we're going to have RadiantCowbells replace in and then we can't use RC anymore either

Lol, you can use Ss for me.

[Shadow_step]

If this hasn't been done already

Intent to hammer Fa q2

[Shadow_step]

@Mod is there an order the players have to follow while folding/raising?

[Shadow_step]

@Mod is there an order the players have to follow while folding/raising?

Actually nevermind, I read the rules again to confirm.

Bet $20

[Shadow_step]

Lane, I don't think beating FA_Q2 just to get some monies while we had a deadline extension until qubixes is replaced was a very good idea.
This play's either impatient or scum -- I have leanings on impatience though. I guess at this point we were all getting annoyed.

We just have to wait for the flip.

Attempting to put shade on lane here without really committing to it.

VOTE: MM

What would you have done differently ?

[Shadow_step]

We should all be following the plan of betting and giving the hands to our townread.
Right now I am curious on that kill?

BBT wasn't really trying in the game if my memory serves right.

Seriously??!!
If you give a lot of money to a single player and IF they are town, scum know who they should NK.
If your townread is scum then lol.

[Shadow_step]

I think I understand the BBT kill. It strikes me as kind of a "don't rock the boat" kill, to eliminate a strong player who hadn't really contributed much this far.
It reminds me of the droog kill in this game.
And I think what it suggests is that town's collective reads are way off, as they were in that game. I'm very disappointed that my MM/FA theory didn't end up being true, and I think that flip means that MM is town too. I definitely want to take a closer look at farside once again.

@Shadow: if only one person wins a hand in any given day, they will be bulletproof the following night. That's the mechanic that Fire wants to (ab)use by throwing hands to townreads.

I see that being useful in a situation where we have a non CCed town PR. Otherwise I don't see much use in making one person win all the hands just to make them bulletproof for a night.

[Shadow_step]

Fold

I need to think about a few things before I vote.

This is a very self conscious post.

You didn't want to vote anyone....yeah okay, but why do you feel the need to say that..?

[Shadow_step]

I see that being useful in a situation where we have a non CCed town PR. Otherwise I don't see much use in making one person win all the hands just to make them bulletproof for a night.

Ewww no, it doesn't matter if they have a power role. You asking for a power role like this is kind of scummy.

Total misrep, I didn't ask for a PR, I was talking about a "situation", e.g. the massclaim in a lylo etc.

[Shadow_step]

Fold

I need to think about a few things before I vote.

This is a very self conscious post.

You didn't want to vote anyone....yeah okay, but why do you feel the need to say that..?

I tend to overthink things and I had a theory i was looking into when I had time.
My first reaction was to just vote MM.
But then I thought about how something smart was blaming people for pushing votes while he sits on his vote for FAQ2.
My brain finds it hard to see them scum together and I start going, farside are you looking at everyone or ignoring people.
Then there is you who's said nothing except willing to hammer.

Right now I'm just going on fumes and waiting for tomorrow before I do anything.

I think I understand the BBT kill. It strikes me as kind of a "don't rock the boat" kill, to eliminate a strong player who hadn't really contributed much this far.
It reminds me of the droog kill in this game.
And I think what it suggests is that town's collective reads are way off, as they were in that game. I'm very disappointed that my MM/FA theory didn't end up being true, and I think that flip means that MM is town too. I definitely want to take a closer look at farside once again.

@Shadow: if only one person wins a hand in any given day, they will be bulletproof the following night. That's the mechanic that Fire wants to (ab)use by throwing hands to townreads.

Are you meaning that we should look at the reads made during day 1 and take them completely opposite? Who didn't even get real votes on? Who looks in control?

No, it just means that scum think they are doing well and don't want us to rethink our reads. Thus, we should rethink our reads. We shouldn't necessarily rethink all of them.

Fold

I need to think about a few things before I vote.

This is a very self conscious post.

You didn't want to vote anyone....yeah okay, but why do you feel the need to say that..?

It's self-aware, not self-conscious. Why did you feel the need to say that?

Wait, why did I vote something_smart?

VOTE: the mm

Why aren't you dead? You had a lot of money

If scum kill someone with a lot of money, most of that money just goes right back into town hands. And why would scum necessarily kill a potential mislynch like MM if he is in fact town?

I think I understand the BBT kill. It strikes me as kind of a "don't rock the boat" kill, to eliminate a strong player who hadn't really contributed much this far.
It reminds me of the droog kill in this game.
And I think what it suggests is that town's collective reads are way off, as they were in that game. I'm very disappointed that my MM/FA theory didn't end up being true, and I think that flip means that MM is town too. I definitely want to take a closer look at farside once again.

@Shadow: if only one person wins a hand in any given day, they will be bulletproof the following night. That's the mechanic that Fire wants to (ab)use by throwing hands to townreads.

I don't even know what you mean by most of this.

Scum want to kill the person who they don't want alive the most. This could be a person liable to start catching them, or one who is widely townread and is leading town in a dangerous direction. Since the scum killed BBT, who wasn't really active, engaged, or in a town leader position, it probably means they aren't too afraid of the above things happening, which probably means that the town's reads, as a whole, are fairly bad.

Wait, why did I vote something_smart?
VOTE: the mm
Why aren't you dead? You had a lot of money

I won a hand, I was freaking Bulletproof. Read'em rules.

Bulletproof only goes into effect if only one person wins money in any given DP. Read'em rules.

Cause I didn't really feel that farside needed to add that to her post.
She simply could have folded and said nothing. She must have thought only doing that would look scummy.

It looked like a conscious effort to not look scummy.

[Shadow_step]

@mod: can abilities be used in the same night that they are bought ?

[Shadow_step]

People are concentrating too much on the money and abilities instead of the actual game.

A similar thing happened in Blood borne, it was a large theme game which recently finished. Town ended up self destructing which cost us the game.

[Shadow_step]

@mod: can abilities be used in the same night that they are bought ?

Why did you ask this?

Cause curiosity

[Shadow_step]

I was confused. I was thinking the mafia who killed them died. Change of plans. No one is getting vengeful lol. We get like 5 people the jail keeper?

Dafuq what?
You've been on this site 5 years, don't tell me you've never encountered a vengeful before.
This looks like a fake town slip.

[Shadow_step]

I was confused. I was thinking the mafia who killed them died. Change of plans. No one is getting vengeful lol. We get like 5 people the jail keeper?

Dafuq what?
You've been on this site 5 years, don't tell me you've never encountered a vengeful before.
This looks like a fake town slip.

how would that be a town slip?
Thats him not understanding a role mechanic......
Like thats not exclusive to town, thats a dumbass slip lol. No offense Lane.

It isn't(exclusive) but it generally comes from town, as scum tend to be more careful with the setup and possible roles etc and don't make such obvious mistakes.

[Shadow_step]

@shadow, why didn't you wait for the mm to answer what he did last night? Something about that I don't like. Why were you concerned about night actions last night? And why ask the mod something that was going to come out, and then ask the mod for verification afterwards?

I think I'm annoyed with the question being before the mm posted

The question had nothing to do with MM

I was asking cause I was curious and I was thinking of buying the neighbourizer but now that I know that if I buy it tonight I won't be able to use it till night 3, there is no point buying it.

[Shadow_step]

And feel free to look through my games. I doubt you'll find one where vengeful came into play. I don't remember it. Based off the word I was thinking it was bomb or super saint or whatever kills the person who targets you

I wish I had that much time, but this is hard to believe since vengeful was brought up on day 1 itself.

And even if that was my plan to give my money away, magna, chances are it goes to town.

Unless your scum buddy told you he had a strong hand.

This is the only option that has a hint of credibility to me. Honestly, town wouldn't give away their monies at random like that.

@magna. I'm not sure I understand the question. I didn't want to consolidate money into anyone's hands but my own. I didn't expect anyone to call. I want money to get the benefits of getting money. So why am I scummy again?

I find it suspect that you just assumed an immediate All-In would not possibly get called. Especially given you told Pers "I'm not going to win". If anyone calls then odds are overwhelming that one person ends up with $1,000 plus in their bankroll immediately. Which if they are scum is not good for Town.
I could certainly see a pre-game scenario where it was decided to try to consolidate money on one scum via an All-in and scum counterclaim.

Given the abilities in play, Scum would LOVE to get these 1250$ abilities. Especially a Vengeful since they get to one-shot a Townie for free, meaning scum don't really lose momentum from it.

TL;DR Version: Lane, you just made the scummiest move so far, and not just because it's the only big one.

[Shadow_step]

Anyone want to comment on my plan to throw games so one of us tomorrow gets BP and good abiliites?
Or we just going to treat the poker stuff as a mini game?

But the poker stuff IS a minigame, Fire. Also, that plan relies on trust in one player to work. If that player is scum, town's screwed. Besides, there's no such thing as a universally-townread player in here.
By the way, crappy hand:

Fold

.

@shadow, how do you feel about about the mm using being bulletproof as an explanation for why he wasn't killed last night, when yesterday he commented on a plan to get one person to win so they were bulletproof, saying that plan relies on trust in one player to work? Also after something_smart talked about the rule?

I think its bullshit.

[Shadow_step]

2 scum versus 9 town can be ridiculously scumsided depending on the setup. I doubt there's a traitor.

And what about my calling you scum doesn't sound genuine?

Why would it be terribly scum sided? I don't understand, 9v2 would mean that scum need 4 mislynches.
I'd call that terribly town sided if anything.

[Shadow_step]

Guess it's my turn then.

Call $40

[Shadow_step]

Still waiting for your catch up Wingback. Zzzz

[Shadow_step]

Nice. I'm actually not sure how much money you have mm. So just bet 500 so we can be sure. I just want to know you bought tracker. Then we know for sure someone needs 1250. It's the town thing to do.

I don't understand(?)
What is the use of governor or vengeful to town ?

[Shadow_step]

Nice. I'm actually not sure how much money you have mm. So just bet 500 so we can be sure. I just want to know you bought tracker. Then we know for sure someone needs 1250. It's the town thing to do.

Well, as long as I know what I'm talking about this time, you can use vengeful to try to kill a mafia in the event of your mislynch. And... Governor doesn't work in LyLo... Just remembered. Well if you're convinced someone is town you can save them?

I guess we'll just find out if someone can still get tracker

A no lynch just gives scum an extra nk, assuming that we'll go into the night phase if someone gets protected by the governor.
Town Vengeful can heavily backfire if they end up killing a townie.
At this point I think our best bet is the JK.

[Shadow_step]

Infinity's illogical defense of MM, makes me wanna lynch MM even more.

@mod can you prod..uh yourself ?

[Shadow_step]

Raise $70

[Shadow_step]

SS and Fire is town-town, who else is going to have the balls to say this?

What in their interactions makes you think that ?

[Shadow_step]

SS and Fire is town-town, who else is going to have the balls to say this?

What in their interactions makes you think that ?

This kind of question requires a real fleshed out response that I'm not in the position to do it justice at this time. How deep do you want me to get? Are you willing to hear me out with an open mind, or are you just asking this to be asking it?

I want to know why you arrived to that conclusion. I haven't played too many games so far on this site, but when "A" has said X and Y are t vs t, "A" has more often than not been scum.
I've seen this done a lot for pre flip town credit especially the lynch is between X and Y.

[Shadow_step]

Loving how Infinity just calls me scum without presenting a case of any sort.

[Shadow_step]

Rc is scum, we lynch him and fire can shoot mm.

I'm down with this actually

VOTE: RC

[Shadow_step]

Giving away money is stupid either way, but it hurts scum more because they know it's going to go to town (or it probably is)

Abilities which are brought tonight can't be used until the next night anyway, so what is there to lose for scum.
You're just being obtuse.

[Shadow_step]

I love how you're putting words I my mouth and still not giving a reads list after I asked for it multiple times. I never said you were scum, I said I thought you could be scum. Come on dude, play the game.

PRs are still PRs no matter what night they can get used on.

What makes you think I "could" be scum ?

I have a town lean on lane and farside is nullish town.
Scum lean on MM and RC.
FA is prob town to, but I can't really say.
It doesn't make sense for town FA to claim vig when he was no under pressure what so ever.
If scum have a roleblocker or jailkeeper or any such role which prevents FA from shooting they'll keep doing that to him to wifom us or just hope he shoots a town or just kill him off.
It also could be scum gambit between you and FA, something you planned at night to clear whoever comes out of that alive for the rest of the game.

You're nullish scum for me.

Smart and wingback are null.

[Shadow_step]

Wingback is confirmed town.

So you believe Infinity's claim ?

[Shadow_step]

Wingback doesn't have to be his partner. Scum infinity can easily claim that he has an innocent on any player and in this case Wingback who has had a town read on him.
Infinity could just be pocketing Wingback .

[Shadow_step]

I'm not sure what is going on with the hand, can we get an update mod?

[Shadow_step]

Wingback doesn't have to be his partner. Scum infinity can easily claim that he has an innocent on any player and in this case Wingback who has had a town read on him.
Infinity could just be pocketing Wingback .

Yes but in that scenario Wingback is still town.

My point is, Wingback is only NOT town if Infinity and Wingback are partners. Since I find that scenario very unlikely, we can assume that Wingback is town.

Fair point, or Infinity could be telling the truth and Wingback could be a godfather.

[Shadow_step]

I'm not not mistaken I'm the only one left in the hand apart from MM so

Call $204

[Shadow_step]

Godfather is explicitly non-normal.

Is it?
I've played on other sites and its used frequently. It isn't in the "bastard roles" in the mafwiki either so why is it non normal ?

[Shadow_step]

You mean the vote on shadow? I gave reasons why I think he's scum (though PoE does factor into it)

I'd love to see what those reasons are, the only one is you've given so far is "POE".

All your cases are bloody stupid, this is newb scum so he is scum, this is newb town so he is town. Pure bs

[Shadow_step]

Why? If Infinity is illogically defending MM, shouldn't that make you want to lynch Infinity as opposed to MM? From your POV, either he would either be scum defending a partner or scum defending town so why would it make you want to lynch MM more? Unless you think Infinity is town defending scum in which case, his defense shouldn't affect your read on MM.

By the way, why are you scumreading MM in the first place? The only thing I found was Post 819 and you agreeing with Lane's point in Post 910 after he questioned you about it. That doesn't look like a strong enough read for you to conf-bias Infinity's defense as making MM more scummy. What do you think of MM's response to that point?

MM

-

Infinity

Most likely, scum infinity is defending scum MM because MM has a strong PR.

MM

-

Infinity

Less likely, town infinity is defending scum MM, because he is conf biased, maybe arrogance plays a part in this. Refusal to keep an open mind and just illogicaly defending MM, without any solid reason. Just saying he is newb town......WTF?
From MM's post it's very clear that he is hard town reading Infinity as well, only because Infinity is town reading him. That's an awful reason to town read anyone. He doesn't have a problem with Infinity buddying with him so much for no reason whatsoever. I can't imagine a town MM being okay with that.

MM

-

Infinty

least likely, it doesn't make sense for scum infinity to white knight a town player who is scum read by majority of the players, he will get lynched sooner or later and scum infinity doesn't get much(if any) town creds after the MM flip. I don't see much scum motivation behind this.

Which is why I'd rather lynch MM today.

[Shadow_step]

shadow, you seriously need to explain your reads. All of them.

I'm not gonna make something up to please you. If you have a problem with my reasons that's your issue not mine.

[Shadow_step]

and the mm, well I guess we'll give that spot the benefit of the doubt for now

dafuq??
You were 1000% convinced MM is scum. What caused this complete 180?

[Shadow_step]

Rereading the iso on Shadow, I missed how non-existent he has been throughout the game and he

just seems to lob questions and throw shade on players without any reason or it.

That's pretty rich coming from you as you've been essentially non existent this day, what complete misrep(bold part).

[Shadow_step]

Wingback doesn't have to be his partner. Scum infinity can easily claim that he has an innocent on any player and in this case Wingback who has had a town read on him.
Infinity could just be pocketing Wingback .

Yes but in that scenario Wingback is still town.

My point is, Wingback is only NOT town if Infinity and Wingback are partners. Since I find that scenario very unlikely, we can assume that Wingback is town.

Fair point, or Infinity could be telling the truth and Wingback could be a godfather.

Wingback doesn't have to be his partner. Scum infinity can easily claim that he has an innocent on any player and in this case Wingback who has had a town read on him.
Infinity could just be pocketing Wingback .

shadow, you seriously need to explain your reads. All of them.

I'm not gonna make something up to please you. If you have a problem with my reasons that's your issue not mine.

Loving how Infinity just calls me scum without presenting a case of any sort.

This is all in regards to shadow throwing shade.
The fake town tell towards lane, throwing shade towards Infinity claim or even wingback being a gf.

Great, when did being open minded become throwing shade?

[Shadow_step]

Fold

I need to think about a few things before I vote.

This is a very self conscious post.

You didn't want to vote anyone....yeah okay, but why do you feel the need to say that..?

You never follow up on this. What happened?

I found the response okay.

[Shadow_step]

Ok a lot of stuff on this page.

You mean the vote on shadow? I gave reasons why I think he's scum (though PoE does factor into it)

I'd love to see what those reasons are, the only one is you've given so far is "POE".

All your cases are bloody stupid, this is newb scum so he is scum, this is newb town so he is town. Pure bs

You're scum because you don't take stances on anything, didn't give reads until prompted and are not explaining those reads. You ask questions that don't really get anywhere in terms of scumhunting.

If you failed to notice I replaced in at the end of day 1. I make reads off of interacting with players.
You have no case you just have an opinion on something, you're vote is completely opportunistic and you're trying to create a wagon on me to save your buddy MM

Why? If Infinity is illogically defending MM, shouldn't that make you want to lynch Infinity as opposed to MM? From your POV, either he would either be scum defending a partner or scum defending town so why would it make you want to lynch MM more? Unless you think Infinity is town defending scum in which case, his defense shouldn't affect your read on MM.

By the way, why are you scumreading MM in the first place? The only thing I found was Post 819 and you agreeing with Lane's point in Post 910 after he questioned you about it. That doesn't look like a strong enough read for you to conf-bias Infinity's defense as making MM more scummy. What do you think of MM's response to that point?

MM

-

Infinity

Most likely, scum infinity is defending scum MM because MM has a strong PR.

MM

-

Infinity

Less likely, town infinity is defending scum MM, because he is conf biased, maybe arrogance plays a part in this. Refusal to keep an open mind and just illogicaly defending MM, without any solid reason. Just saying he is newb town......WTF?
From MM's post it's very clear that he is hard town reading Infinity as well, only because Infinity is town reading him. That's an awful reason to town read anyone. He doesn't have a problem with Infinity buddying with him so much for no reason whatsoever. I can't imagine a town MM being okay with that.

MM

-

Infinty

least likely, it doesn't make sense for scum infinity to white knight a town player who is scum read by majority of the players, he will get lynched sooner or later and scum infinity doesn't get much(if any) town creds after the MM flip. I don't see much scum motivation behind this.

Which is why I'd rather lynch MM today.

Actually, MM did give a legit reason to townread me, and it looked a lot like the reasoning you gave for the last example.

Infinity feels a bit too nice to me, white-knighting and whatnot, but he's still my top townread because I doubt he's scum hiding behind that to make a friend of me: that wouldn't be an effective move to make for scum.

shadow, you seriously need to explain your reads. All of them.

I'm not gonna make something up to please you. If you have a problem with my reasons that's your issue not mine.

That's funny, because I don't see any reasons at all...

You (Farside) have been tunneling The MM for a majority of D2. The fact that you so effortlessly throw Shadow_step into your scumreads without putting any real effort to read him makes me think my townreads are all wrong and you could be scum. If you genuinely were trying to read them, you'd be taking into account Qubixes' posts and not just make an easy push on Shadow for his low engagement.

What do you think about me essentially doing the same thing

I also have some very serious doubts about The MM flipping scum. His latest posts have been so over-the-top levels of ridiculously frustrated posting, and I think he responded adequately to my push on him.

Someone gets it....

VOTE: Shadow_step

Eyy let's do it

Wingback doesn't have to be his partner. Scum infinity can easily claim that he has an innocent on any player and in this case Wingback who has had a town read on him.
Infinity could just be pocketing Wingback .

Yes but in that scenario Wingback is still town.

My point is, Wingback is only NOT town if Infinity and Wingback are partners. Since I find that scenario very unlikely, we can assume that Wingback is town.

Fair point, or Infinity could be telling the truth and Wingback could be a godfather.

Wingback doesn't have to be his partner. Scum infinity can easily claim that he has an innocent on any player and in this case Wingback who has had a town read on him.
Infinity could just be pocketing Wingback .

shadow, you seriously need to explain your reads. All of them.

I'm not gonna make something up to please you. If you have a problem with my reasons that's your issue not mine.

Loving how Infinity just calls me scum without presenting a case of any sort.

This is all in regards to shadow throwing shade.
The fake town tell towards lane, throwing shade towards Infinity claim or even wingback being a gf.

Great, when did being open minded become throwing shade?

But you don't even take a stance on what you think is the most likely....

Hey infinity: I see you around.
Do you think it's odd that Lane doesn't find anything wrong with RC or see anything scummy about him?

Lane I've written off as town because he does something I've never seen scum fake: posts exactly what comes to his mind. As scum, this would be a very bad strategy, not to mention he would say a lot more scummy things.

Plus RC isn't exactly the scummiest player here.

And wtf is this stance thing about?
What do you want me to do vote wingback because there is a possibility that he could be a godfather?

[Shadow_step]

and the mm, well I guess we'll give that spot the benefit of the doubt for now

dafuq??
You were 1000% convinced MM is scum. What caused this complete 180?

Complete 180 would be a town read

Thought that would be 360 but whatever, don't dodge the question.

[Shadow_step]

SS and Fire is town-town, who else is going to have the balls to say this?

What in their interactions makes you think that ?

This kind of question requires a real fleshed out response that I'm not in the position to do it justice at this time. How deep do you want me to get? Are you willing to hear me out with an open mind, or are you just asking this to be asking it?

I want to know why you arrived to that conclusion. I haven't played too many games so far on this site, but when "A" has said X and Y are t vs t, "A" has more often than not been scum.
I've seen this done a lot for pre flip town credit especially the lynch is between X and Y.

I have given reasons as to why I am scum reading RC.
Perhaps if you read the thread properly.

@Infinity ^

And post 1205 covers why I'm scum reading you, it's basically your illogical defense of MM .

I don't get why you want to put it all in one post when it is quite obvious from NY posts what the reasons are.

I feel you think I'm a soft target and you want me to slip so that you can tunnel on me until you get me lynched.

[Shadow_step]

As far as what is most likely is concerned.
Scum infinity clearing wingback who was already hard town reading him is more likely than infinity and wingback being scum together.
Godfather is a possibility like I said.
Which is why I'm not completely sold on Wingback being "conf" town.

[Shadow_step]

and the mm, well I guess we'll give that spot the benefit of the doubt for now

dafuq??
You were 1000% convinced MM is scum. What caused this complete 180?

Complete 180 would be a town read

Thought that would be 360 but whatever, don't dodge the question.

I didn't. You asked whats with the complete 180? 180 would be a townread. I don't townread him. At all. Not even a little bit. So your question is invalid. Because what you imply isn't true? You could say, lane, why aren't you voting the mm anymore? And id say, because the lynch isn't going to happen, and I'll give him a slight chance to get a track. And I've been stepping away from the game, taking my voice out of it, on the off chance I'm wrong. To be its more important to be right and lose because of other people, than be wrong, and lose because of me. I don't want that on me. And I think you are a good lynch. Good chance to be scum

Are you fucking kidding me, are you seriously backing out of your reads because you are scared what will happen post game?
That's ridiculous.

Why am I a good lynch?
What is your case on me?

[Shadow_step]

Those are not reasons, you just say he is newb town and then whatever he posts you are conf biased into thinking that it is town behaviour.

Him throwing all his money in the pot means nothing, he could have a very good hand, did that come to your mind ?
Why would scum care about money now?
He has already bought tracker hence denying town the best available PR.
The next best thing he can buy is too expensive and he'll probably never have that much money anyway so it doesn't matter that he all ined. It's completely NAI.

[Shadow_step]

Got a chance to look at a recent scumgame of The MM's. He was lynched D1. The first vote on him was placed here and over the next twenty pages (five rl days), he gets lynched here. He's super-uninvolved, trolls a bit, weakly pushes on his accusers (Wisdom in that case), tries to laugh off the wagon and then folds. Compare that to the ridiculous amount of effort he put in here and how much more in-depth his reads are, and how genuinely frustrated he was, I'm pretty positive he's town. I can't believe anyone who was in that game is scumreading him here.

@FireAssasin,

mind explaining why you weren't taking that into account when pushing The MM?

Current townreads: Lane, The MM.

I'll go over all the players again one by one to figure out who else I should be adding there.

Tbh meta is a bullshit reason to town or scum read anyone, it can be easily manipulated.

[Shadow_step]

Lane, you mind answering my question in 1236?

[Shadow_step]

UNVOTE: farside22; VOTE: Shadow_Step

This is mostly an opportunistic vote, but it's also kind of a "better" vote than farside as I forgot that q was on my townie side yesterday, but not really a huge townread. In that sense, I would be more willing to see him go than someone I'm much more confident about like a SS or a lane or a FA.

Let me see if there's anything worth responding to.

#931 is a farside post?
I don't think delaying hands is AI, scum would do it if they have weak hands and delay to hope that town players fold. Town players can essentially do the same thing. So I don't understand you're townread on Fa.

When you said that you thought it was t v t, I thought it was something in their interactions which made you think that, but apparently that's not the case..?

[Shadow_step]

Are you fucking kidding me, are you seriously backing out of your reads because you are scared what will happen post game?
That's ridiculous.

Why am I a good lynch?
What is your case on me?

First off, will you explain the intensity behind this reaction? Secondly, will you please point to the specific post you find lane to be "backing out" of?

Because I found the reason completely hideous, the game is not even half done and he's thinking about post game wtf..?
He literally backed out of his strong MM scum read because of the shit he might get if mm flips town.

[Shadow_step]

UNVOTE: farside22; VOTE: Shadow_Step

This is mostly an opportunistic vote, but it's also kind of a "better" vote than farside as I forgot that q was on my townie side yesterday, but not really a huge townread. In that sense, I would be more willing to see him go than someone I'm much more confident about like a SS or a lane or a FA.

Let me see if there's anything worth responding to.

Lol, you throw shade on farside early on, then go AWOL, return and vote your counter wagon without having any case on them, brilliant.
This is basically a scum claim.

[Shadow_step]

With ref to post 1311

That's the thing there is no case, just people voting me for my play style which is disgusting tbh.

[Shadow_step]

Hmm I also think there's one scum in <Shadow_step, Infinity>. I want to scumread them both but they make no sense as partners.

Also, Shadow seemed to imply that he knew that there were 3 scum, and there being 3 scum makes Infinity's claim more believable.

???? Seemed to imply?? When ?

Smart is just essentially prod dodging at this point in the game.

[Shadow_step]

I haven't missed that, but, regardless, I am no longer confident that the wagon would succeed. Especially without MM. Had MM not been force-replaced (I am not planning to speak on that decision until post-game), then I think the game could've been allowed to progress much more naturally, for lack of a better word.

Further, I do now think Shadow is probably the better lynch between the two, but, as you suggested earlier, there's a reasonable case to be made for a partnership between the two.

How is any of this town?
You vote who you think is scum and not which wagon is most likely to go through, especially when there is NP case on them.

If this is town we deserve to lose. I can't be arsed anymore.

[Shadow_step]

Hmm I also think there's one scum in <Shadow_step, Infinity>. I want to scumread them both but they make no sense as partners.

Also, Shadow seemed to imply that he knew that there were 3 scum, and there being 3 scum makes Infinity's claim more believable.

???? Seemed to imply?? When ?

Smart is just essentially prod dodging at this point in the game.

Here:

2 scum versus 9 town can be ridiculously scumsided depending on the setup. I doubt there's a traitor.

And what about my calling you scum doesn't sound genuine?

Why would it be terribly scum sided? I don't understand, 9v2 would mean that scum need 4 mislynches.
I'd call that terribly town sided if anything.

That's called using common sense .

[Shadow_step]

Hmm I also think there's one scum in <Shadow_step, Infinity>. I want to scumread them both but they make no sense as partners.

Also, Shadow seemed to imply that he knew that there were 3 scum, and there being 3 scum makes Infinity's claim more believable.

???? Seemed to imply?? When ?

Smart is just essentially prod dodging at this point in the game.

Here:

2 scum versus 9 town can be ridiculously scumsided depending on the setup. I doubt there's a traitor.

And what about my calling you scum doesn't sound genuine?

Why would it be terribly scum sided? I don't understand, 9v2 would mean that scum need 4 mislynches.
I'd call that terribly town sided if anything.

That's called using common sense .

That's not common sense for somebody who's never played in an 11-player game before. For you to say it is sounds an awful lot like someone who already knows the scum ratio of this game.

Not sure where you get that from, not on this site but I have on another site.
Moreover you don't need to play a 11 player game to know what's more balanced.
Scum % of 20-30 is generally called balanced and the amount of mislynches town has = no. of scum is also called balanced.
Examples are matrix 6 and any setup with 10-3.

[Shadow_step]

@Shadow_step,

still need a couple of things answered from you: 1) Can you walk me through how your read on Farside changed? You say in Post 828 that she made a very self-conscious post, and elaborate in Post 843. Then suddenly in Post 1147, you sheep her onto RedCoyote seemingly forgetting the earlier suspicion and have her as nullish town in Post 1159. Then again in Post 1208, you accuse her of being essentially non-existent and misrepping you. 2) How has Farside been non-existent this day phase? She's been one of the most active members. 3) You never answered my question on why you were scumreading The MM in the first place. Mind giving me a quick recap?

On phone right now so a bit difficult to selectively quote. I'll get back to this in the morning.

[Shadow_step]

@Wingback, read on MM

It all started off at the end of day 1 when MM tries to put shade on lane to set him up for a lynch on day 2.
After that I isoed him and these things stuck out.

In post 90 he gives a readlist which is basically commentary and he calls a lot of people null, therefore making it very easy for him to change his reads on players whithouy explaining much.

I have the same probkem Moi has with that post which he points our in post107.

In post 61 he mentions the 1250 abilities.

In post 130 he says he made a mistake of assuming they were for $1000, which I think he said just to get lane off his back.

[Shadow_step]

ow is any of this town?
You vote who you think is scum and not which wagon is most likely to go through, especially when there is NP case on them.

If this is town we deserve to lose. I can't be arsed anymore.

VOTE: Shadow Step

I don't like the AtE used here, I think its completely out of place and fake.

GIVE ME ONE REASON WHY YOU THINK I'M SCUM.

[Shadow_step]

Fake AtE?

funny, when you do it, it is supposed to be genuine.

I'm genuinely pissed, give me one reason why you think it's okay for lane and rc to be voting me ?

[Shadow_step]

really? shit

@mod can you delete that post?

[Shadow_step]

@Shadow_step, still need a couple of things answered from you: 1) Can you walk me through how your read on Farside changed? You say in Post 828 that she made a very self-conscious post, and elaborate in Post 843. Then suddenly in Post 1147, you sheep her onto RedCoyote seemingly forgetting the earlier suspicion and have her as nullish town in Post 1159.

I found the response to my accusation to be town and by the time of 1147 I had already expressed my concerns about the RC slot. Farside's push on RC seems genuine and I have no reason to scum read the slot.

Farside calling me non existent, I found that kinda hypocritical, I checked the posts, farside only had 33 post on day 1 when she replaced in and calling me non existent when i essentially replaced in on day 2 was weird.

[Shadow_step]

Pretty sure RC jumped on my wagon for the money, probably FA too.

Scum pool is [fa infinity RC FA]

Don't lynch outside of this tomorrow

[Shadow_step]

You just keep on saying top scum read without having any actual case, you're hopeless.

[Shadow_step]

If I recall correctly, nobody asked me for a case.

Stop being pedantic ffs

[Shadow_step]

You need to stop being lazy and vote actual scummy instead of just wanting to lynch me because its convenient for you in some way or the other.

[Shadow_step]

How did you just simultaneously imply that I was town and suggest that I had ulterior motives?

Like, how does that even work?

What am I to think? Why are you voting me then ?

[Shadow_step]

If is when you just put a naked vote without any reason.

[Shadow_step]

Pretty sure the scum team is MM-Mathblade/Smart/x right now, it doesn't make sense for scum to not kill a tracker.
Smart's 180 on MM on day 2 was weird as hell.

[Shadow_step]

I'm VT

[Shadow_step]

Shadow what'd you use your money on btw?

I brought JK in hopes of blocking the kill.

[Shadow_step]

Well this is some wifom

2 nights in a row?
MM was town read by majority of the players at the end of day 2, I can't wrap my head around him not being killed.

[Shadow_step]

Well this is some wifom

2 nights in a row?
MM was town read by majority of the players at the end of day 2, I can't wrap my head around him not being killed.

Night 1 he was BP
Night 2.....idk. I don't try to out guess scum motives
.

He wasn't BP on night 1, he didn't win all the hands on day 1 iirc.

[Shadow_step]

Yes I tried to use it on Wingback. Got refunded so I will have another shot tonight.

Why would you target Wingback?
That's an incredibly dumb track wtf.

[Shadow_step]

Also I have right now $820 dollars that I am going to be giving all away today regardless to my strongest town read, which right now is Lane.

I suggest you all fold on the hand and I will too, so he can get BP and the money.

Why didn't you buy anything?

[Shadow_step]

Fold

[Shadow_step]

The winners tell me who scum cannot kill when I eyeball the votes.

-If only a single player wins a hand on any Day phase they will be Bulletproof the following Night phase.

Nobody was BP on night 1, I was BP on night 2.

[Shadow_step]

What do people think about my points against MM/FA? I thought they were pretty noteworthy but people seem to just be ignoring them.

I think I understand the BBT kill. It strikes me as kind of a "don't rock the boat" kill, to eliminate a strong player who hadn't really contributed much this far.
It reminds me of the droog kill in this game.
And I think what it suggests is that town's collective reads are way off, as they were in that game. I'm very disappointed that my MM/FA theory didn't end up being true, and I think that flip means that MM is town too. I definitely want to take a closer look at farside once again.

@Shadow: if only one person wins a hand in any given day, they will be bulletproof the following night. That's the mechanic that Fire wants to (ab)use by throwing hands to townreads.

Were you scum reading MM based on their interactions only or anything else?

[Shadow_step]

If I was the vig I would have shot Infinity 10 times over for being stupid.

If scum win this you should get the MVP award.

[Shadow_step]

You've been defending all the wrong players for all the wrong reasons.
Why do you think Mathblade wasn't killed yesterday night ?
And none of that lynchbait shit please.

[Shadow_step]

So what?
The fear of being tracked is not more than having a conf town in the game ?

[Shadow_step]

Can we lynch Math already. zzzzzzzzz

[Shadow_step]

fold

[Shadow_step]

Scum want me gone because I can literally confirm or deny what someone is claiming in thread.

Yeah, you're talking exactly like you know what PRs mafia have.

[Shadow_step]

VOTE: MT

[Shadow_step]

Mod can you please list all players and current money status

Players will be aware of how much money they have, but will not know how much other players have remaining. It is ok for a player to claim how much money they have remaining.

[Shadow_step]

VOTE: MT

Who the fuck is MT?

Are you serious?
Being a troll isn't going to help you in any way.

[Shadow_step]

Why are you using my RL initials if you mean me? And if you are how did you know them instead of correcting the typo?

I have no clue what your RL initials are

I'm sure you are the only one with M as the starting letter.

Anyway just to be clear and mod convenience

VOTE: MB

[Shadow_step]

You know I feel like I am going to be an asshole by saying this, but if you want to be 100% clear, you could type out the players full name.
But thats just me.

I'm lazy and I generally vote like this

VOTE: MATHBLADE

happy?

[Shadow_step]

Shadow: Why are you voting Mathblade? The reason you posted, which was just one and a stretch in my view doesn't seem like a good reason to vote there.

It's just not that, I've been scum reading MM since day 2 and I've previously explained why I think that slot is scum.
Plus whatever Math has posted so far doesn't make me change the read on that slot.

[Shadow_step]

okay I need a quick look at this. I feel certain that Smart is scum. I know I said that about RC and FAQ.
But seriously the dude has no cases, no scum reads other then me and the engagement most of the game is lack luster at best.

I liked his play d1 though. It's true he hasn't done that much since then, but I think he was away for some time and I get the impression he's trying to figure stuff out.

You are town reading Mathblade but I'm a bit unsure can you explain why these things read town to you?

Ehh

Last game me and math played together we were both town, and they tunneled on me and weren't very logical iirc (sorry math)

Honestly after mini 1800 I've given up on trying to read math, but mm was so towny that I'm comforable with calling that slot town

Now as potential scum with an odd night cop and a vig why would scum need a tracker? Keep in mind in a Math!scum world one of these have to be town. (Granted the math scum world is stupid but...) Why the hell would MM not buy something more useful?

Yeah I think they would buy like a JK or something

*cough* shadow *cough*

OFC
If I was so being targeted by tracker as scum I would have bought the commuter instead.
But you've already decides that I'm scum so I'm not gonna waste my time talking to you.

[Shadow_step]

You can't commute and kill at the same time lol

Do you still think I'm scum or did you drop that read for no good reason?

Have you been skimming my posts?
I've already said you're dumb and not likely scum.
Based on interactions I'm feeling it's Smart and Mathblade.

[Shadow_step]

You can't commute and kill at the same time lol

Do you still think I'm scum or did you drop that read for no good reason?

Have you been skimming my posts?
I've already said you're dumb and not likely scum.
Based on interactions I'm feeling it's Smart and Mathblade.

Why? Stop pitching what Farside and FA want and make a case if you believe that. But you probably don't have reads do you?

Farside ?
IIRC they are not even sure of you being scum, what the hell are you talking about?

Get caught up with my posts(day 2) and you'll understand why I'm scum reading your slot.

Continually misrepping me doesn't help you in anyway .

[Shadow_step]

You can't commute and kill at the same time lol

Do you still think I'm scum or did you drop that read for no good reason?

Have you been skimming my posts?
I've already said you're dumb and not likely scum.
Based on interactions I'm feeling it's Smart and Mathblade.

Well you said I was stupid here

If I was the vig I would have shot Infinity 10 times over for being stupid.

If scum win this you should get the MVP award.

But you never mentioned that I wasn't likely to be scum...

This or fire, guys.

I've obviously implied it when I talk about the MVP award.

Seriously take your tinted glasses off

[Shadow_step]

Lol that was my point why I am conf town XD.

Why?
You could have bought role stopper for all we know.

[Shadow_step]

@Smart what is your read on the MM slot, do you still think he is town?

[Shadow_step]

VOTE: Math

for emphasis

[Shadow_step]

I'll try to post when I get time, but I'm going to be v/LA for a couple of day.

@mod ^

~Noted.

[Shadow_step]

No, it isn't. It's considering the possibility that you're scum.

Of course, by PoE you're my third scum pick behind farside and Infinity. And you may be making your way up that list now, not sure yet.

@Everyone: could you see an Infinity/Fire team both claiming PR's without realizing that all the townies were VTs?

I don't understand what you're getting at here?

[Shadow_step]

No offense to everyone here, but I am very done talking right now.
We have talked to death and unless someone has a very convincing case to make to someone else, which I doubt. We should lynch Something_Smart and if flips scum ill shoot Mathblade, if not. Ill reconsider.

I'm not even sure why we are lynching Smart instead of MB.
There is no way to confirm who he tracked or whatever.
He can literally say anything he wants.

[Shadow_step]

Do you think smart is town?
If so why?
Is math your only scum read?

No
But I prefer an MB lynch to smart right now.

[Shadow_step]

^ this

Scum don't have a roleblocker. If someone is roleblocked shadow is confirmed scum. So shadow doesn't really need to be tracked for JK anyway, so math should try to catch someone making the kill.

I doubt smart is scum, but I'll hammer him to avoid a no lynch I guess.

lololol

scum slip

VOTE: Infinity

[Shadow_step]

PEdit: wtf shadow? You think rb makes sense in this setup?

The way you said it, seemed like you know exactly what they have.

"Scum don't have a roleblocker."

[Shadow_step]

I can't believe how Infinity's scum slip has gone "unnoticed" by the majority.

INTENT

[Shadow_step]

VOTE: Smart

[Shadow_step]

I jked Titus.
Not sure if I protected her or blocked the kill, that is obviously considering that fire shot Math.

[Shadow_step]

So scum deliberately shot the person you were going to kill Fire?

Why?

mathblade had a tracker, and I already said I was planning to shoot Math, it seems an easy way to ensure that Math does die and frame me if it was the only kill.

How does that frame you?
If anyone else would have been killed and Math would have been alive, that would be framing you, no?

[Shadow_step]

So scum deliberately shot the person you were going to kill Fire?

Why?

mathblade had a tracker, and I already said I was planning to shoot Math, it seems an easy way to ensure that Math does die and frame me if it was the only kill.

I didn't, I lied about being a 1 shot vigi, and threatened players in order to see if scum would NK me based on who I was suggesting to NK.
I shot nobody, I never had a gun.

My bad.

WTF
You have no idea how hard a time I had at night deciding whether I should JK you in case you end up shooting town and we lose instantly.

[Shadow_step]

Call me paranoid but I've seen this kind of distancing done before, the stuff that happened between lane and farside should eliminate a farside/Titus scum team but ugh.

Them having a neighbourhood in lylo also is ringing all kinds of alarm bells.

[Shadow_step]

So far we've had, farside assuming that Smart was scum.
Infinity not knowing that we are in lylo.
Fire assuming that governor/vengeful works in lylo.

What's up with that shit.
All these mistakes cannot be genuine.

[Shadow_step]

I literally don't understand why Shadow isn't hard pushing Infinity and vice versa.
They are claiming actions that kind of contradict each other.

Scum could have an rb, plus we are in lylo.
What is it that you don't understand ?

[Shadow_step]

@Shadow, why shouldn't we suspect you because of how the wagons turned out?

Can you be more specific ?

[Shadow_step]

@Shadow, why shouldn't we suspect you because of how the wagons turned out?

I know wifom but I've been pushing for a MM/Mathblade Lynch since day 2 and if I was scum I could have just jked him to avoid tracking me or my scum buddy instead of killing him.
It would have been easy as fuck to push a mislynch on him today.

[Shadow_step]

The only way scum would have an RB is if town has a powerrole worth blocking no?

True, but an RB with limited shots(1-2) is possible considering the poker PRs.

[Shadow_step]

Started with Shadow/Infinity
A couple of big fat questions marks on you too.

Shadow: You thought Infinity scum slipped day 3 in regards to him saying scum had no RB.
Now you think there could be a scum RB, can you explain why this change?

Infinity: You had a scum read on Shadow on day 2, but after the RC wagon flipped town you didn't really go back to that scum read and instead focus on Fire, I'm wondering what happened with your read on Shadow and why no push on him after?

The confidence with he said that there is not a scum RB, made me think he knows the setup.
It didn't have to do with scum having an RB or not.

[Shadow_step]

I'm so sorry fire for tunneling you the entire game lol

Huh?

[Shadow_step]

Is titus a troll or something?

[Shadow_step]

VOTE: Farside

[Shadow_step]

Given how day 2 went, I never thought we would win.
I was so close to getting lynched.

[Shadow_step]

Okay wil the PTs being released.

BBT was an info starve kill more or less.

[Shadow_step]

I wanted to keep wingback alive cause I thought killing him would be way more damaging to us because of his reads and the RC flip.

[Shadow_step]

I love being scum but its very stressful at times.
I still have a lot to learn and I don't think I played too well in this game.
Anyway. Thanks for modding Alchemist and wguerts (y)

[Shadow_step]

I'm back now. I apologize for going dark on everyone so suddenly and dumping all the mod duties on wgeurts. But thank you to everyone for still playing and to wgeurts for modding in my absence.

Unfortunately I need to extend the Night Phase for another 48 hours because it seems the Mafia never had access to a PT during the Night.

Night 1 now ends in (expired on 2016-07-14 16:00:00)[/strike]

If anyone would like/need to send their actions in again to me they may do so.

Again, sorry for all inconveniences during these past days.

EDIT: I've just been informed the Mafia did have PT access last night so the Night has ended, and is considered to have ended as normal. Day Phase will start once everything is in order.

Also, as a clarification to the rules, items are received at the Day Start after they are purchased and cannot be used on the same Night they are purchased.

I thought I was going to doomed after players read this lol.
I was the latest replacement and Alc hadn't been around during that time, so scum me not having PT access would make sense.
But apparently I was just being too paranoid I think.