NY 184: a help (done)

[Oversoul]

What the hell are these pictures Bob

[Oversoul]

I could see Pisskop, Oversoul, or Elyse saying something like that in scum chat.

Why am I included in this. I know nothing of you

I think I have played one game with you in my entire time on site and it is still ongoing

[Oversoul]

I think RC is probably town, but the possibility of this being some elaborate scum theater still exists in the back of my mind.

VOTE: Jake from State Farm

Wagons are

delicious

.

[Oversoul]

That makes my point even better. I have basically no knowledge of how you operate/would be a good scum strategy to deal with you

[Oversoul]

It looks like bulge had insider knowledge that rc and jake were town as an aside but that doesn't matter rn

It's just on several levels bad AND scummy

I had a similar feeling when he called it town v town like that so quickly

Scum do that shit a lot in my opinion

[Oversoul]

I hope Kinetic picks up his prod. I wanted to play with him. I've heard good things about his play

[Oversoul]

Why do you expect a vote to automatically make Bro and Grimm appear? That's not how this works.

I was actually planning on moving my vote to the Bulge wagon. I think Jake is a good wagon too, so I was happy to leave my vote there.
But Matt has his mojo back and he's got this swagger so I'm gonna follow him
VOTE: Bulge

[Oversoul]

I think you modded a game I was in. I remember reading a couple of your old games and being impressed.

[Oversoul]

Oversoul, why are you voting Jake when RC implicated you, Pisskop, and Elyse?

Curious why this matters for a vote?

Walk me through what you were thinking here.

[Oversoul]

I think there is an obvious answer for why Kinetic asked that question, RC.

[Oversoul]

Opinions on Pisskop? He has 3 posts and I already dislike his play.

[Oversoul]

You could give an opinion on something for one. Instead of lurking the thread.

[Oversoul]

Like if you're going to make gossip at least go to the laundry room to do it, washer woman.

was this directed at me?

[Oversoul]

Opinions on Pisskop? He has 3 posts and I already dislike his play.

I kind of think he's useless town who'll get mislynched for reasons that I find obvious but that nobody else will see coming

What do you mean obvious?

I wish I were the vig :/

Do you know for a fact a Vig exists?

[Oversoul]

Who are RC's buddies then?

[Oversoul]

1) there are certain things that resonate with me that other players tend to miss for whatever reason. The reason I'm getting town vibes from pisskop is one of those.

What are is the "one thing" that is resonating with you?

Electrosheepmon has no questions nor followup?

Is this addressed to me?
You don't have the right Pokemon if it is.

[Oversoul]

That's not really the type of post you report, especially given the amount of vitriol that this site creates.

I think BRO is probably town.

[Oversoul]

I look forward to Matt's continued dissection of the game, and not just an easy vote.

Well, at the time you only had 3 posts and it was mainly this one that I disliked.

You voted the same wagon as Matt, but called his vote bad.

Why?

[Oversoul]

I look forward to Matt's continued dissection of the game, and not just an easy vote.

Well, at the time you only had 3 posts and it was mainly this one that I disliked.

You voted the same wagon as Matt, but called his vote bad.

Why?

You mean my RVS vote? The second post of the game?

At the time it seemed that Matt's post was needlessly overanalytic. And still could be. I was turned off by how much thought went into it.

But not turned off enough to move your vote from the wagon? The one started by Matt?

[Oversoul]

But not turned off enough to move your vote from the wagon? The one started by Matt?

Pls show this thing you say

Didn't see your unvote

[Oversoul]

Also I started that wagon. So . . .

Eh, not quite. You were the first vote, but you were hardly the one who got everyone else to vote.

[Oversoul]

I think you're probably town because I thought you were calling the wagon bad while contributing to it

[Oversoul]

I wouldn't say it is useless stuff. It helped me get a read on him.

[Oversoul]

RC I don't know why you're putting so much stock into Likeabauss's reads/opinions in that game. Back when that happened, I thought for sure that Rank and Bauss had been cheating. I am still not certain that Bauss *actually* did catch the team like the way he did.

I like the early aggression on Jake, I like early wagons, but I'm not sure that your "case" is as strong as you believe it is. There is a lot of psychology involved in that case. Even today psychologists bicker about the validity of theories/individual action, so I'm not exactly sold on your reasoning.

---
Jake,

Pisskop did give information and there is scumhunting in his posts. I don't see how you can't see that?

[Oversoul]

I feel like I am missing a significant amount of memory to do with this game and its middle pages...

Anyway

I could see Pisskop, Oversoul, or Elyse saying something like that in scum chat.

Why was I included in this, RC? I barely know you. I think I asked this question earlier, but I don't think you responded. If you did then I'm sorry.

Hmm...

@ oversoul this is what I see when I look through PK's iso

0. rvs
1-4 - nothing of value
5. responds to your queston and does a half-assed job at it.
6 & 7 nothing of value
8. Asks a question that was already answered in post 62 by RC, so pointless question
9 - another half assed post which doesn't really add value to the game
10 - unvote and complaining
11 - 13 - more ueless posts. nothing so far has involved any scum hunting or progressing the game along
14. This is the first game related post, unfortunately it involves asking you to explain your view on him. This does nothing to help determine his alignment imo
15. responding to you about your posts about him. He also says matt was over-analytic which I disagree with
16 - 18 - this is basically where he claims he started the bulge wagon which imo isn't true because a RVS vote doesn't count. Matt started the pressure on bulge.
19 - 21 more useless posts
22 - this post makes no sense from a town pov.
23 - another very weird post, one I don't see coming from town. I'm still waiting for at least 1 game that confims his statement about RC
24. asks me a pointless question
25-27 - more useless posts.

No scum hunting at all in any of his post.

0 -

Agree

1-4 -

Agree

/

Disagree

. Three and four are engaging with another player (me). He is trying to discern why I would be asking these things (will come to this later).
5 -

Disagree

. He addresses my concerns and up to this point very little has happened other than you and RC trying to start a 1v1. His comments on that arenot explicitly bad or "doing a half-assed job". He also gives a personality reason for why he is playing the way he is, which is townie.

6-7 -

Agree

/

Disagree

. I don't think 6 is necessarily contributing anything, but I find humor to in general be a townie thing. I think 7 is very obviously scumhunting a player (me).

8 -

Disagree

. I did a very cursory glance of the pages around this interaction and could not find where RC said this. Could you link it?

9 -

Disagree

. He is at least engaging the game with reads. What would you have preferred his posts to say? Pisskop clearly is not like that as a player, stop holding him to standards he will never keep.

10 -

Disagree

. And? What exactly is bad about this post? It is exactly what I was feeling when reading you and RC. 1v1s are very annoying for players who are not entirely invested in the outcome (which is expected given this game is less than 72 hours old and it is day fucking 1). You and RC were sucking energy out of the game.

11-13 -

Agree

/

Disagree

. Post 13 is scumhunting a player (me). How are you not getting that from his posts?

14 -

Disagree

. This is one of the towniest posts that Pisskop has made. This is

definitively

where Pisskop starts to scumhunt me for attacking him. Seriously, Jake, how are you not seeing this as scumhunting?

15 -

Disagree

. Again, this is Pisskop scumhunting. He clearly sees a contradiction in my accusations (which there

was

, I was mistaken with what I had read) and he pointed it out in a very town manner. He was legitimately confused with what I was saying. He also gives an original thought on the Matt wagon. What you're saying here is that you disagree with his opinion of Matt's vote, and that means he isn't scumhunting or giving ways to read him?

16-18 -

Agree

/

Disagree

. What you're saying is true, I even pointed that out myself, but where do you think that kind of conviction is going to come from? Town or scum? Also, 16 and 17 are still trying to discern my alignment. That

is

scumhunting.

19-21 -

Agree

/

Disagree

. 20 is a useless post, but 19 and 21 are decidedly not useless posts. Have you never seen scum ask a question like 19? Have you never asked a question like that? 21 is a damn read on the person he has been engaging with this entire time. HOW ARE YOU IGNORANT OF THIS?

22 -

Agree

. I have my own opinions about this post, but I am curious for why you think?

23 -

Agree

/

Disagree

. I can see this coming from town. It is a meta analysis that describes this type of behavior from RC. I could see this type of post coming from scum, though. Links to those games would be good, I agree.

24 -

Disagree

. I see this to be in the same type of question that he asked me earlier. He is skeptical and cynical of how I have been playing and this post is a skeptical/cynical post about how you have been playing and your assertion against him.

25-27 -

Agree

. But have every single one of your posts been towards your wincon, promoting scumhunting? You're holding him to an unreasonable level 1) as a player, and 2) specifically as Pisskop. It would be like telling Nobody Special to not lurk, or Tammy to not use emotion, or UT to not use GIFs/pictures.

[Oversoul]

It's the way in which he's doing nothing. Not going to post my full intentionality theory, but the tl;dr is that true lack of intentionality comes from town, and I think pisskop has demonstrated true lack of intentionality.

Do you think Pisskop is scumhunting?

That being said I'm starting to think some kind of scum v. scum multiball with this tunneling

Multiball... in a 14 player game?

If you question it, talk to me again after game after you see Jake's scumflip.

I agree to an extent, I have used similar reasoning to catch scum, but only after substantial analysis of the game later in the day.

Doesn't even matter, what bauss did in that game isn't what RC is doing this game.

So he isn't cheating?

Also, that post had nothing to do with this game.

RC said he is using whatever bauss used in that game in another game and this one. Thing is the things bauss said in that game to catch you isn't similar at all to what RC is doing in this game. Its not even similar to the other game that RC supposedly used it in.

I mean, I see the similarities pretty well.
It is an analysis on a psychological level of posts? What do you think it is that bauss did?

If you're not then youre just the most anti town players in existence and have concept of how to facilitate productive discussion. If you retort that you're not going to stop until you get what you want then please see the part where I say you have no concept

Excuse me? How is trying to lynch your top scum read anti town?

This isn't the first time I've been accused if being anti town for trying to Lynch scum yet nobody can ever explain to me how playing the game toward my win condition is anti-town so can you explain it?

It is antitown because it is dominating the discussion of the entire game right now. It sucks the will power of the town to scumhunt other players. Going with what you're saying, if you're wrong, would be like starting on Day 1 again with less townies. That is not pro-town.

Jake From State Farm

, what is your opinion on BROseidon?

Jake's still scum 90%, but Flubber's scum v scum comment was extremely telling.

I agree. I didn't like that comment either. I have a predisposition to hate those types of comments.

A couple things -- first, please don't take my posts out of context -- the bit about MattP's analysis of The Bulge is relevant here.

Second, it seemed like you were agreeing with MattP that it seemed more scummy for The Bulge to call out the RC/Jake spat as "townie" -- making two town reads in the process, while complaining about the singular scumreads of Jake and RC against each other. But then RC goes and implicates three people, including you -- so it seems inconsistent to me to follow Matt's logic and vote Jake over RC.

I still don't understand the point you're making here.

How is the logic inconsistent?

Also, who fucking cares if that picture was "homophobic"? I really don't think bob meant it to actually be homophobic, and I thought it was kinda funny, actually.

ALSO HAI KINETIC, HAI BRO

You know Kinetic?

Also I am townreading pisskop now

Why?

What is your read on me?

I actually think Lostaway is kinda town.

[Oversoul]

Jake no comment on my Disagree/Agree post?

[Oversoul]

Yes, and you would be wrong to do that.

[Oversoul]

I mean I am not the only person to town read him so, yeah
Do you still think that since then Pisskop has not done townie things (please no pbpa)?

[Oversoul]

I mean I am not the only person to town read him so, yeah
Do you still think that since then Pisskop has not done townie things (please no pbpa)?

[Oversoul]

because he wants me to take up more space so people don't focus on him. If pk is town somehow, than oversoul is scum which would make sense why he wants me to talk more.

Are you actually this fucking nuts in real life

[Oversoul]

What do you find odd about Lostaway
I had mild town leanings on her

[Oversoul]

Hmmmm ok

[Oversoul]

RC I think I'm really feeling you on the Jake-scum. The way he refuses to see *any* towniness/intentions in pisskop is mindblowing. He has to be refusing to see the things I am seeing (and others are also apparently seeing) so that he can keep pisskop as a mislynch.

His weird paranoia that I am scum trying to set up an elaborate plan is also odd and looks like he is reaching to create a web of doubt around me to protect himself/justify potential votes in the future.

[Oversoul]

because he wants me to take up more space so people don't focus on him. If pk is town somehow, than oversoul is scum which would make sense why he wants me to talk more.

Are you actually this fucking nuts in real life

Nothing I said was nuts in that post. Paranoid perhaps, but not nuts. You realize there's no point in arguing my opinion yet that's what you just did in that huge post. Now you want me to read your responses and hope I'll magically see your POV? That's delusional. So maybe the question is are YOU this fucking nuts in real life?

Do you argue with everyone who doesn't share your opinion?

I thought you were V/LA?

[Oversoul]

I'm sorry I called you nuts, but I thought your whiplash OMGUS paranoia was something for the story books when you said it. It is like you've never played with someone has confidence or even remotely acts the way I do.

[Oversoul]

Um, what

[Oversoul]

Am I being worthless?

[Oversoul]

We're pariahs now, Bro.

Also, you and Matt disappeared for a couple of days.

I really don't understand the RC self-vote. It makes little sense to me.

[Oversoul]

hmmm

Ok. I might be on later but I will be unavailable after 9:00 p.m.

[Oversoul]

Bro I am here now if you want to flesh out some things.

[Oversoul]

This RC wagon is horrible.

[Oversoul]

We're pariahs now, Bro.

Also, you and Matt disappeared for a couple of days.

I really don't understand the RC self-vote. It makes little sense to me.

Why are you ignoring your own theory that RC might be faking everything? It makes perfect sense if you consider that he's acting. His frustration isn't even convincing.

I don't think RC would try to do something this ballsy this early into the first day of the game.

RC, why do you think EPM is scum? He is trying to parse the game. He is actively scumhunting me, and he built a more structured/substantial case against you than most of the people on your wagon.

I think Jake is being obstinate about pisskop thinking he can get a pisskop mislynch.

VOTE: Jake

[Oversoul]

RC, what is your read on Kinetic?

[Oversoul]

1. If I was scum I couldn't be obstinate now could I? Obstinate means stubborn which implies you think I am town. If I was scum I could't possibly be stubborn.

2. I am not trying to get pisskop lynched, i'm trying to get RC lynced so the second part of your post is 100% false

What I don't understand is why are you being super defensive of pisskop when NOBODY is even trying to lynch him? It makes no sense.

I get you have issue with me scumreading pisskop because I am the only one calling out his bad play, but everything I have said about pisskop is 100% accurate so it's not me being obstinate, it's me being dead on balls accurate.

You just can't see that because you seem to be sucking on... nevermind I won't finish that sentence.

re: 1 - Yes, obstinate means stubborn. Congratulations, you have more than an elementary understanding of the English language. Or you have access to a dictionary. Stubbornness does not mean town. I don't understand why you think that is, but I am curious to know. Hell, as scum, one of the BEST ways to kill a day is to death tunnel/be stubborn on a single person's lynch just so you can "look active" without really contributing anything.

re: 2 - Ok. Fair. However, I think you are trying to build up suspicion onto pisskop for following days since pisskop is obviously a weak player. I'm not even sure English is his first language.

re: 3rd paragraph - It is to forestall the inevitable pisskop lynch that I know scum are just waiting for with anticipation.

re: bolded - nice. sexist/homophobic comments are great

[Oversoul]

1.stubbornness means town because scum can't be "stubborn" Scum know who town is so it wouldn't be stubbornness for them to push on a townie, it would be something else. Calculated maybe? idk what it would be but stubborn wouldn't be it but nice try

2. So earlier you wanted me to say who I thought was RC's buddies were and I didn't really have an idea. Later I come out and say that pisskop is a scum read of mine and now that gets twisted into me trying to build suspicion to lynch him on a future day? Man that's really reaching. You are so worried on day 1 what I may or may not do on future days? white knight pisskop harder will you

3. scum are waiting with anticipation for a pisskop lynch? why would you think that when I am the only person who is calling pisskop scum and nobody even listens to me. I don't really see anyone else calling him scum, in fact almost everyone is calling him town. You are the only one standing on a soap box screaming at the top of your lungs about it. That makes no sense to me especially when you were originally the first person casting doubt on him.

This may be a crazy idea but I honestly think you are projecting your guilt on me, I think you thought you could basically set pk up to get lynched at some point but him being obstinate when it came to questioning you and asking you for reasons for your read on him made you crack and you abandoned your plan.

you have already called me nuts once so won't be suprised to see you do it again.

Stubborn means refusing to listen to reason. Yes, scum can be stubborn. They do it all the time when they want to get a lynch they want, drive pressure away from a buddy, etc. I do not understand how you do not understand that.

I thought you weren't going to try and get pisskop lynched? Me asking who RC's buddies are was more in relation to who you see being scum based on RC's actions.

Yes. pisskop seems like a weak player that could very easily be mislynched. That is why I think scum would want to push him. I was thinking he was newb scum just trying to lurk through the game but he has shown me he is willing to engage this game. If I really was scum, I would be lurking like 50% of this game, so try again Jake.

LOL if you think pisskop's questions toward me made me afraid of him or the repercussions for pushing him. I have a little more faith in myself as scum than to be scared by that.

[Oversoul]

oops, well called you weak again sorry

[Oversoul]

p.edit - again no scum can't be stubborn. They can only be calculated or persistent but nice try.

Someone else tell Jake is wrong so he doesn't use his confbias against me to justify his horrible logic. Scum can be stubborn. You just said that they can be persistent. Stubbornness is when someone is super persistent in a specific way.

pisskop, from the way he plays, looks like a weak player. Not really that hard to surmise. Just like I can look at Flubbernugget and say he is a weak player. Or look at Broseidon and say he is a strong player even though I don't think I have actually ever played with him.

People have ways of projecting themselves that look either weak or strong.

pedit:

Yes... yes he can... progressing/scumhunting is not black and white like you seem to think it is. Even weak players can still scumhunt, they can just be super bad at it.

[Oversoul]

Stubbornness is when someone is super persistent in a specific way.

but if scum KNOWS a player is town and continues to be persistant, that doesn't mean they are stubborn because they already KNOW he is town. Scum could just be stupid or like I said earlier, calculated. Stubborn implies the person doesn't know the truth and is just wrong. Scum knows the truth and isn't really wrong either.

You mean the actual definition of stubbornness? I mean, maybe? I have no idea. I haven't actually looked up that word since the third grade.
What I am saying is people can ACT stubborn, like you are right now, without ACTUALLY BEING STUBBORN. So a scum can REFUSE TO SEE CERTAIN PLAY AS EITHER SCUMMY OR TOWNIE and to an outside observer THAT WOULD LOOK STUBBORN.

[Oversoul]

I am now 1000% sure Jake is scum because of {reasons}.

All I am saying on that front.

[Oversoul]

so please tell me why the hell are you hard defending a weak player? you have gone from pushing the weak player to defending the weak player and this has baiscally prevented you from doing much of anything else. The 180 makes no sense from a town pov and I don't even think you answered some of pisskop's earlier questions that he was asking you. I need to double check that tomorrow, but if you ignored his questions and then did a 180 on him, that will bring u up a few more notches on the scum side.

I am scumhunting you. I already gave my opinion on the main wagon of the day. I developed several town reads. How can you even qualify my play as "prevented from doing much of anything else"?

Again, reads are not as black and white as you are making them out to be. But given your previous answer about scumhunting, clearly we do not see eye to eye on a philosophical level of mafia.

[Oversoul]

Neutral but special note for Elyse:
I'd really like to say Elyse is town but Elyse can be the town MVP as scum.
She's with Boonskiies in being impossible to read but instead of just sorta being there she carries her teams.
If I was gunsmith, I'd check that N1.

Why did you say Gunsmith here, RadiantCowbells?

[Oversoul]

As opposed to tracker, hider, or you know, COP

[Oversoul]

Why did you say Gunsmith here, RadiantCowbells?

probably because it is one of the sample role pms on page 1.

Nice defense of your number #1 scum read.
Noted.

Holy shit.

I think I am on to something.

[Oversoul]

Yes. But why would you answer for your number 1 scum read?

[Oversoul]

And the sample role PM means nothing about this game, it is just a sample role PM. Doesn't mean that Gunsmith is actually in this game, but YOU seem to think so and apparently so does Radiant Cowbells, which is quite odd/peculiar given you two came out swinging at each other.

[Oversoul]

Yes. But why would you answer for your number 1 scum read?

because the answer is an obvious one. Why are you pretending like you didn't know there was a GS role pm on page 1 to begin with?

STOP AVOIDING THE QUESTION

[Oversoul]

every normal game I have ever played, the sample role pm is a sample of a role pm actually used in the game, so yes I am making the assumption that this game has a GS in it.

If that is true, then this is not a normal game as no normal game should EVER CONFIRM THAT THERE IS ANOTHER ROLE IN THIS GAME FROM THE OPENING POST OTHER THAN OPEN GAMES OR INNOCENT CHILDREN.

Assuming that a GS exists based on the sample role PM is not the NORMAL thing to do unless you have other knowledge or privately asked the mod.

YOU KNOW THERE IS A GS IN THIS GAME FOR SOME REASON, JUST LIKE RC APPARENTLY KNOWS THERE IS A GS IN THIS GAME.

Then you go on to answer for your 1v1 target, even if the answer is obvious, why would you do that? Especially since you think I am scum with RC, why not let that interaction play out?

[Oversoul]

Why did it take you this long to say this thing?

What thing?

[Oversoul]

I saw that post too. I did not assume a Gunsmith was in the game because that would be absurdly BAD modding practice to do.

[Oversoul]

Did I assume that there was

or did it just happen to be the first investigative role to come to mind.

I dunno. That is what I want to know.
This is also the exact reason I find it scummy as fuck for Jake to answer for you give that there was no 100% reason you would have said that.

[Oversoul]

I really don't like this push from Oversoul.

Feels like he's clamouring for his own reason to vote me.

I would have done it by now. So you can save yourself from that.

[Oversoul]

Is this game some kind of sick joke and it is actually an open?

[Oversoul]

I mean fuck what if I was vig and you just outed me.

Yes.

The VIGILANTE THAT IS CURRENTLY VOTING HIMSELF.

No.

[Oversoul]

Well yeah, cuz if I was vig I'd be like lol K jake every time he talked then shoot him tonight.

But what answer were you looking for from me? why ask?

So you do assume that there is a GS in this game because of the role pm?
I was looking for any answer. Up until I asked that question I hadn't read that role on the first page and no one else even commented about it leading me to believe that no one else read it either but apparently both you and Jake did.

[Oversoul]

your reaction doesn't come from a town mindset imo.

Because we clearly play this game the same way.

[Oversoul]

That's not the question you asked.

Why ask

Why did you say Gunsmith here, RadiantCowbells?

That obviously reflects on my alignment not the setup.

Why ask it?

What's a bad answer I could have given?

{reasons}

[Oversoul]

Sorry for the post vomit.

Jake you're the only one bringing up out of game reasons.

[Oversoul]

Hmm.. I used the {reasons} thing earlier. That's unfortunate since I wasn't referring to another game specifically.

[Oversoul]

your reaction doesn't come from a town mindset imo.

Because we clearly play this game the same way.

as a townie there is no reason to be mad that the mod decided to do that but that's all i'm going to say because anymore it just becomes a stupid argument over opinions.

p.edit - lol that's bullshit and you are now covering your tracks. When that game is over i'll bring this topic back up and prove that you were absolutely using that game and my evidence will be pretty damning against you son

Bring it.

[Oversoul]

Then what the hell was it supposed to mean?

Role related.

[Oversoul]

Finally you fucking unvote. My god. That is really what it took for you to stop self voting?

[Oversoul]

Matt you disappoint me

[Oversoul]

Matt you disappoint me

Pg 14 and you're still in my Bottom Two
[:

It's ok, I know you will see the light come page 22

[Oversoul]

Or look at Broseidon and say he is a strong player even though I don't think I have actually ever played with him.

We were masons QQ

it isn't anything against you
I just have a bad memory

What game was that though

[Oversoul]

Bro, did you read the GS role pm on the first page? I had no idea it existed until tonight

[Oversoul]

Ok. Enough trolling.

But real talk. Yes {reasons} was for what you were saying it was for Jake. I did not read the role PM on the first page so when you and RC were like there is a GS in this game, I found that to be super suspect.

I think either both (RC and Jake) are town OR both are scum. I don't think the possibility exists where one is town and the other is scum given the fact that both of them assumed the same thing about the gunsmith. This is mostly to do with my interactions with Jake and RC on the last page.

BRO maintains himself as my strongest townread.
pisskop is right behind him as my next strongest townread.

Then I would probably say Matt/Kinetic/Lostaway are my next tier.

I don't have any strong scum reads other than what I have pointed out about RC and Jake.

[Oversoul]

Alright, so as I suspected, this whole enterprise is just Oversoul weaseling himself to be able to justify lynching me and clearing Jake.

VOTE: Oversoul

Yes.
This is why my vote is on you.
And not Jake.

[Oversoul]

Pg 20 whatever and OS has never engaged flubber or mentioned a read of him

Not much to talk about.
He is lurking/coasting.

[Oversoul]

OS's first like 10 pages of cobrent are p much him just trying to look town

p much not true

[Oversoul]

I could vote EPM with you.
I've always wanted to be in the LCS.

[Oversoul]

VOTE: epm

Playing League, sorry

[Oversoul]

Oversoul you promised your vote and if I don't get it and EPM flips scum I'm going to come down on you so hard that the movie will star Bruce Willis.

This sounds fun

[Oversoul]

How many of you thought the role pm on the first page meant a GS was in this game?

[Oversoul]

I'm such a topic of discussion

[Oversoul]

And then theres oversoul being equally as disengaging of any actual meaningful discussion happening this game

If only I had to dayvig shots
But idk if a 2dayvig + gunsmith town would be too overpowered, what do you think OS, lookin for an expert opinion

Dayvig? Nah. Probably night Vig.
Means scum have RB though.

Also, are you assuming the first post means it is in the game? I asked the mod if that is what it meant and he said no. Why did everyone assume that?

[Oversoul]

I mean sure. Flubber is lurking/coasting/not giving any content. Would I cry at his lynch? No. Would I support it if I had to? Sure.
I find it odd that Flubber is the first player you go after. I would think you would go after someone who is tougher to lynch (although Flubber seems to be difficult to corral interest around).

Depending on town power, this might be 10:4, but I think 10:3

[Oversoul]

I am curious how Jake will respond to me when he gets back.

[Oversoul]

Yeah. I see you going for the style points rather than the fundamental points

[Oversoul]

regardless of your logic just being ridiculous it is cute that you are pushing an RC lynch while you call out my Flubber vote for being "easy"

I've been pushing Jake not RC?

[Oversoul]

RC is doing nothing with my vote.
I may join you soo Matt

[Oversoul]

Rc the worst part is that you could make an actual scum case on him right now and aren't

Why did you say RC could make a case on OS if you yourself didn't think OS wasnt scum

This is just the worst thing I've ever seen

I never asked rc to make a case on OS

I asked rc to make a case on grimm. The player he was antagonizing and shouting at but suspiciously not calling scum

This. I didn't understand why Matt went so hard on this point when I thought he misinterpreted the post but I'm glad Flubber has now clarified this. Matt do you still think Flubber is scummy for this, when apparently this has been a big misunderstanding?

[Oversoul]

I would have spoken up earlier but I didn't want to answer for Flubber since I wasn't 100%.

This is why pronouns are bad guys.

[Oversoul]

With class Jake
with class

[Oversoul]

Hmmmm

[Oversoul]

RC/Jake

What are your reads on Matt?

Kinetic with the empty promises. Makes me tear.

:,(

[Oversoul]

Agreed. Would you want to flash wagon him? This EPM wagon is going nowhere and he makes good points about Matt (although EPM's read of me is vomit)

[Oversoul]

Anyone noticed that EPM's really not going anywhere despite no one really townreading the slot, and Oversoul keeps looking for excuses to jump off it?

Yes. The fact that it is going nowhere is why I am jumping off it.
It's boring.

[Oversoul]

I would actually love to know why YOU think I'm scum OS

Flubber push was bad bad bad. Like I said earlier, I would expect you to not go after a weak player like that and misunderstand an obvious post. It looks like you want to scum read Flubber, but don't actually believe it yourself because you know Flubber isn't scum.

Your whole push against Flubber didn't sit right with me.

[Oversoul]

Are you still voting EPM?

I believe so.
RC made me his bitch so I had to move my vote accordingly. I'm looking to grow a spine soon and move it.

[Oversoul]

I mean I think I have a notochord so it is only a matter of time.

I was on the Bulge wagon and that wagon also went absolutely nowhere. There is a lot of difficulty in getting wagons to gain momentum/traction in this game.

[Oversoul]

Which contradicts with part 4

How is that a contradiction?

Which contradicts with him catering to joining the wagon in part 2

How is wanting to join a wagon a contradiction?

[Oversoul]

"how is wanting to join your Flubber wagon in contradiction with me calling the Flubber wagon bad?"

"how is me saying I wasn't 100% positive about pronoun usage in Flubber's post in contradiction with me saying that Flubber's post was obvious to understand?"

1. Wagons are good. I only hesitated once I saw the apparent pronoun issue and felt you were being over aggressive
2. I didn't realize 100% certainty was the threshold for everything that we have to do

[Oversoul]

1) You said the wagon was "easy" and you didn't like my push / didn't like me prior to the pronoun issue. That directly contradicts with you being onboard with the wagon and being willing to jump onto it.
2) You certainly hit some "threshold", or so you say, where you were uncertain enough not to point out I had a misunderstanding. That directly contradicts with you thinking it was so obvious that it makes me scummy that I had the misunderstanding

1. Fair I probably shouldn't have categorized it like that.
2. I mean I thought it was obvious that there was some miscommunication occurring surrounding that post, but I wanted you two to figure it out for yourselves. You went after Flubber so aggressively that it seemed odd that you missed the post he was referring to, almost like you just chose to isolate him and then try to make a case on what you saw.

[Oversoul]

Your whole push against Flubber didn't sit right with me.

Why didn't you take issue with RC sheeping Matt?

Wagons are good. I honestly didn't even notice that. I'm kinda in my own world in this game.

[Oversoul]

You began saying that you wouldn't cry over a Flubber lynch and would support it if you had to, and that your qualm is that it's just an easy lynch

Yes... in a deadline lynch. Any lynch is better than no lynch.
A lynch on a VI/Lurker is still going to be better than no information at all.

Then you say that your vote on RC is doing nothing so you cater to joining on the easy lynch (which is hilarious, because basically that means RC wagon was haaaarrrd so you'll switch to the wagon you called easy, so you're a hypocrite at best)

RC wagon? I am confused. I was talking about the wagon that RC was trying to start on EPM.

Then you say my push was bad? So what did you see in my push that made you cater to a Flubber vote in the first place?

The fact that MattP was pushing it and I consider you a really good player? And that Flubber doesn't really look like he will contribute to the game but discussion for another time I guess, lol.
Maybe I'm just holding you to higher standards back when we actively played. pastMatt I don't think would make this type of case/push Flubber like this. After I had seen things start to develop the wagon just felt bad on a visceral level and I determined it had to do with you pushing it for not the best reasons.

pedit: too many posts

ffs just let me post

[Oversoul]

So, I think Elyse has the worst vote of the last 5 votes.

What is everyone's read on her?

Hmmm.

Tempted by the Matt vote...

[Oversoul]

2. Have you ever heard of distancing?

It can be an effective strategy.

Sheeping your scum buddy is a bad strategy

What is this even addressing in my post?

[Oversoul]

Its addressing you contemplating sheeping your scum buddy. I was giving you some solid advice to help you in future games

Ah. Ok. So it was a failed attempt at snarky humor.

[Oversoul]

It wasn't even humor. I'm being nice and giving you a very solid piece of advice

Doing things that scum shouldn't do, or normally don't do, is generally my go to scum playstyle.

[Oversoul]

You still haven't answered what you saw in the Flubber wagon that made you cater to it at that moment.

And I already said my opening this game sucked. I had a big sloppy misunderstanding with a pronoun, but my logic based on that misunderstanding was completely sound, so I don't get why you keep harping on saying that you're "disappointed" with my play or "expected more from me". But this is also just AtE and is completely irrelevant to what I'm getting at

1. Read thread
2. MattP posted
2.2 Get excited
2.3 MattP advocating lynch on Flubber
3. Look over Flubber iso
4. See nothing really there
5. MattP is good player so his push is probably good

[Oversoul]

Yeah, Elyse literally just posted a vote with no content attached to it to read into. I don't get how you read it being so terrible.- or you just dislike her having you as a scumread? But so many people are scumreading you rn

It came out of nowhere because she was townreading me

[Oversoul]

Good thing I didn't say strong townread.

[Oversoul]

When accompanied by no reason? Yes.

[Oversoul]

1) You said the wagon was "easy" and you didn't like my push / didn't like me prior to the pronoun issue. That directly contradicts with you being onboard with the wagon and being willing to jump onto it.
2) You certainly hit some "threshold", or so you say, where you were uncertain enough not to point out I had a misunderstanding. That directly contradicts with you thinking it was so obvious that it makes me scummy that I had the misunderstanding

1. Fair I probably shouldn't have categorized it like that.
2. I mean I thought it was obvious that there was some miscommunication occurring surrounding that post, but I wanted you two to figure it out for yourselves. You went after Flubber so aggressively that it seemed odd that you missed the post he was referring to, almost like you just chose to isolate him and then try to make a case on what you saw.

1. I don't get what that even means. Ok? So what should you have categorized it as?
2. Again again again, this doesn't make the contradiction go away. You said, QUOTE

I would have spoken up earlier

but

I didn't want to answer

for Flubber

since I wasn't 100%.

You didn't say, "I didn't want to answer for Flubber because I didn't want to get in the way"

Now you're just changing your story

OS never responded to this post, because

there's no way out of it

I probably should have said the wagon was on a weak player to make it more accurate.
If I interjected, I could have potentially given Flubber a way out of it and I wanted to see how things played out.

[Oversoul]

1. Read thread
2. MattP posted
2.2 Get excited
2.3 MattP advocating lynch on Flubber
3. Look over Flubber iso
4. See nothing really there
5. MattP is good player

so his push is probably good

This directly contradicts with everything you've said prior. How it actually happened was you said:

1. MattP is a good player pushing an easy lynch
2. Matt is scummy for it, doubting Matt's towniness because of his easy push

I didn't start thinking it was a bad push until later. How many times do I have to say this?

My initial thought was this wagon might be good! Then after watching it gone it turned into me feeling bad about that wagon.

[Oversoul]

I did? I don't remember it being like that

[Oversoul]

Oh. I don't know then. Probably just wanted to sheep you regardless

[Oversoul]

Meh, this is just me playing poorly and not caring/remembering things correctly

I wouldn't let my scum play devolve into this kind of bad posting

[Oversoul]

Oversoul what is your read on me and why

scum-leaning town

[Oversoul]

But seriously, I think you are on the townier side of null

[Oversoul]

That's where I am putting Matt too after his little exchange with me

[Oversoul]

I kinda want Tabula Rasa

[Oversoul]

Mainly because of 813. I didn't like Elyse's 605. I don't know why she says no to Vyse upon an innocent question and the "waffle Lostaway" comment read to me as scummy.

[Oversoul]

(also sorry for joining the game at your request and then scumreading the heck out of you <3 )

lol yeah I found that funny

I was thinking to myself "wow I wanted to play with Matt and we going at it like a pack of dogs"

Although I wasn't getting heated over. Probably because I'm not emotionally invested in this game just yet.

[Oversoul]

Like I want to vote os but I want bulge to actually do something more

Fuck it OS gets my vote after the next vc

Why that qualification?
What changes after the next VC?

I blame my poor town play universally on the fact that I haven't caught scum in a while and I also haven't played scum in over a year so I don't exactly know what I am looking for. I am stuck in a foggy mire and keep trying to use vestigial scumtells (that I think should work but apparently don't).

So yeah. Pretty lost.
Normally I don't like the white knighting (from RC), but I am pretty much at the bottom of the hole so I don't know why he wouldn't jump on if he was scum.

[Oversoul]

I am little concerned that you keep posting reads list like that without much in the way of content/reasoning behind those reads, Kinetic.

Why is Vyse such a strong town read?

[Oversoul]

But incapable of non-platonic love.

Official Vote Count

RadiantCowbells

(5): Jake from State Farm, Grimmjow, evilpacman18, Lostaway, The Bulge

The Bulge

(2): Flubbernugget, pisskop

Oversoul

(2): MattP, Elyse

Jake from State Farm

(1): Kinetic

evilpacman18

(1): Oversoul

MattP

(1): RadiantCowbells

Elyse

(1): VysePresident

Flubbernugget

(1): BROseidon

Not Voting

(0):

None.

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2015-05-25 16:19:05)

oh boy this is going to be a long 5 days...

Yeah. I don't like the fast majority of those wagons.
I think I am leaning towards Matt town again. I'm not entirely there yet. Bulge + Flubber seem like lurker votes that I don't think would be particularly useful moving forward unless we want to trim the fat?

VOTE: Jake

[Oversoul]

Not townreading you, so, yeah?

[Oversoul]

But I'm not really pressuring you, plus why would you town read the one guy who is blowing up the entire scum team. You need me out of the game to stand a chance of scum winning

I would town read you so it would seem less weird that you died in the night from the things that go bump in the night.

[Oversoul]

Sup, Jake.

[Oversoul]

? What are you even talking about?

[Oversoul]

Literally saw you post here

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p6881864

So you can calm the hell down with that bullcrap.

[Oversoul]

[Oversoul]

11:10 see Jake post
11:11 call Jake out

Neither of which involve what you think it involves but sure, be a cranky old man.

[Oversoul]

Should vote Jake with me. Actively trying to get me modkilled.

[Oversoul]

You are right my post was to antagonize you but it was to antagonize you over THIS POST

But I'm not really pressuring you, plus why would you town read the one guy who is blowing up the entire scum team. You need me out of the game to stand a chance of scum winning

Looking at everything in totality I can now see why you flipped out but god damn
Jumping at shadows

[Oversoul]

Should vote Jake with me. Actively trying to get me modkilled.

Not trying to get you modmilled actually. Game mod told me to report you to N since you admitted to violating site rules already.

So Bob just randomly PMs you to report me to N? You didn't talk to Bob first? Sure.

[Oversoul]

So clearly your issue is with ME the player, if you want a force replace and you aren't worried about the gamestates being compromised (hint because I've literally not shared any information between games).

[Oversoul]

Drink that hatorade

[Oversoul]

Radiant, your role is negative utility?
Hmm

[Oversoul]

Jake, do you think information was compromised, yes or no? I will replace out if you do (despite me saying nothing actually compromising). But I will hold you to this at end game.

[Oversoul]

Radiant, your role is negative utility?
Hmm

us not lynching OS is psychotic

Like look at posts like this

My role is also negative utility.

[Oversoul]

No nothing was compromised, but that's not the point. I'm a huge proponent of following the rules and for you to take a simple mistake and twist it into somehow implying I'm scum is despicable and shows you have no sort of integrity of the game.

All will make sense with my flip.

[Oversoul]

Not scum. IF anything my rashness and alleged rule breaking would only prove that I am town but you're too far in denial land to see that.

[Oversoul]

Negative utility is that it's existence is a net loss. Like a miller, or a role that is compulsive, or in general disrupts the night game.

[Oversoul]

This is because you play in black and white and don't see the world for the grey that it actually is.

[Oversoul]

Then maybe there is some truth to it

[Oversoul]

This game was crazy

[Oversoul]

I am also sorry for my behavior Day 1. Especially to Jake and to Matt (who I invited to play with me in this game).



Kinetic proves why he won the Paragon in the past! good scumhunting dude