UNI MUM Mafia (Day 3, Stay Gold Pony)

[Learned Hand]

"Vote Learned Hand and put up with this pile of patronizing bullshit where we alternate between claiming you're too stupid to talk to and you won't be responding and doing a point by point rebuttal!

Deal with the scum hydra who will blame any inconsistencies on other the other head!"

Yeah, most people don't want to put up with that. Too bad for you I don't really care.

I'd like to step outside of the game and speak "OOC" for a moment. For your own mental health, I think you probably need to go for a walk or go do something else for awhile. I type really fast and you are flooding in a ridiculous amount of rage posts in a very short period of time. That amount of rage generally puts a lot of stress on the body's autonomic systems, raises blood pressure, and does a lot of other not so great things for your physical and mental well being.


Back "In Character" - I'm still waiting for you to actually like quote me lying. Mafia is a game where people of all alignments lie and deceive for various reasons. You are repeatedly calling us "Lying scum" and "The scum hydra" and so on and so forth, but so far as I've seen, you haven't actually demonstrated that we lied anywhere.

Furthermore, I don't believe either of us ever said that we never post without consulting one another. We talk on slack when we can, but we both possess agency. We can act on our own.

As for your assertion that I just now soft claimed ... erm ... we've softed basically the whole day phase, all the way back to our first posts. If you choose to ignore the part where I point out to you the evidence that we long ago softed what we are and someone would either have a pretty good idea what we are or would have to assume we're really terrible players because of it ... that's on you. You don't get to just say something and have it be true and line up with reality just because you are misinformed (or intentionally trying to misinform others). I was quite clear that we had made posts thousands of posts ago that I'm sure most of the game caught on to and they have some idea what we are.

I'm sorry you missed it... but that's not excuse for frothing at the mouth rage posts.

This is the end of me talking with you until you show you can calm down and have a rational adult conversation. I warned you when I started posting that I was only going to talk to you right now unless you stopped, and you've kept up with the toxic posts and rage posting, so if you can't behave, I will simply ignore you. I don't need the stress, and I have no interest in helping you flood the game with noise.

The proverbial ball is in your court mate.


With affection,
Drixx

[Learned Hand]

RP, seriously, stop it with the name calling. It's unnecessary. You were already warned by the mod. i don't want the result of this game to be marred by someone getting themselves modkilled.

Drixx: that post was terrible. So bad. Why are you even telling us this right now? Why is it relevant? Why are you working so hard to diminish pressure before any pressure exists? Hell, your slots even ASKED for a 1v1, when you could have just laid low. it doesn't make sense to follow that up with a fucking wall of "keep away from us because we are good for town and we will totally claim soon". You know what happens when you do that? You tell us that you are no longer interested in a 1v1, and now you just want to get the hell out of the middle of things.

Also, I wasn't talking about grammar Drixx! I was talking about how it's very easy to look at that sentence (notice my EBWOP, because I typoed!) in terms of logical syntax, and see a clear claim that both sharky and jeanne are investigatives.

pedit: RP, that's not true. Drixx is quite content claiming vague but useful and deliberately trying to draw NK's to himself, or to do so to WIFOM scum.

Then he lies as town. That's probably a reflection of his character more than anything.

He's lying scum here.

@RP - You are toxic and I basically am going to just ignore you for the rest of the game.

One hour between that and doing a point by point rebuttal. Was this Titus or Drixx? I guess one head isn't dealing with me while the other rebutts or something?

Or are you just looking for a strategy that you think will successfully deflect any scum reads, and changing it up if you don't think it's going to work?

Because so far we have "soft claiming", "insulting and belittling" and then "point by point rebuttal". Want to settle on one?

I sign my posts, so I'm fairly confident I haven't even read your "case".

Yeah, man, you can't say Titus didn't know you were gonna do that. Like, there is no chance you didn't at least run it by her as in "I wanna do this, cool?" And wait for her to say "Cool."

But, RP, your vitriol is misdirected. Just because they are hydraing doesn't mean Drixx knows why Titus agreed with his suggestion/made the suggestion.

Also, I haven't read the early game posts Drixx, because work. Just quote them to me if you want me to bother with it.

Also, stop calling eachother liars.

RP is calling you a liar, LH, because he believes you are scum, and thus your whole post about being useful to the town etc. is a lie. Even if you could be useful to the town, that wouldn't be your intention, as scum.

Drixx is calling RP a liar because RP believes firmly that both heads of a hydra should be completely aware of what the other is doing and why, so he's calling you out on a contradiction that you dont' believe exists, but to him, it does. Alrighty, there we go, resolved, stop being asses.

Oh, and Drixx: The problem with giving you the benefit of the doubt is I don't know how deep that rabbit hole goes. Are you making x play because you would never do it as scum? Are you *not* doing it for the same reason? Are you not doin it because you believe I think yo uwould never do it? Like...it's difficult, so I'm not going to go that deep. Show me the posts you think will somehow make everything make sense.

You don't know why he's calling me a liar, and he has yet to actually quote a post and point out me lying. Let him answer for himself. That's mafia 101 Cerb. Why are you answering for another player? I don't recall having called RP a liar, so erm.. there's that also.

As for the WiFoM you added to the end of your post, there's not really any point to engaging with it, is there?

Wow, you talk about name calling in the post where you do nothing but call me names.

You two-faced hypocrital lying bully.

PEdit: OH I SEE

WE GET THE FUCKING SCUM HYDRA THING

"I DIDN'T SAY THAT, OTHER ME SAID THAT"

FUCK YOU. YOU WANT TO PLAY AS ONE PLAYER SLOT, YOU GET TO PLAY AS ONE PLAYER SLOT.

Still waiting for you to point out any place where I lied.

There's a reason hydras are asked to sign their posts. You asserted that I personally said something in a cherry picked quote where you intentionally cut off most of the post, including the signature showing that it was written by Titus. You seem to misunderstand what a hydra is. If Titus says something, that doesn't mean that I said it. If I say something, that doesn't mean Titus said it.

There's not even any hydra dissonance here since I have good reasons for the post I made. Giving that information when and how I did it has a purpose. Still ... I personally am not the person who said what you say I said. The argument that because we're playing one slot we should somehow mind meld and be thinking the same thing and each be the author of every post from the hydra is a little bit ridiculous.

Again ... there's a reason why hydras are supposed to sign their posts.

~Drixx

P.S. - Can we like maybe move on and find scum? Either put up a case or drop it RP. You can say "X is scum!" over and over and over but if there's no reasons, you're not doing anything but flooding the game with noise.

Good, lets start here:

I haven't all you have done is whine and call me a terrorist. That's not criticism. I told you I am not voting any of the three wagons because they all suck.

Rather than defend your position, you go on a tirade about how terrible I am for the game.

Facts at facts. You want my vote. Use them.

Now you told me you wanted cases and facts. I made one.

You never responded to it.

You don't want cases and facts. You were looking to deflect attention from Itle, you have no desire to let attention focus on Itle.

You lied.

Can you quote your case? Until after the thread was unlocked, the extent of my involvement was my comments on the toxicity of the game. Seriously ... there's a whole chunk of the nearly 2,500 posts in this game that I just skimmed because I got tired of how unpleasant it was. You seem to think that talking to one head of a hydra is equivalent to talking to another head of a hydra, but that simply isn't the case. We're two separate people who live thousands of miles apart and we don't discuss every little thing with one another. I trust Titus to be responsible, and she trusts me to be responsible, or else we wouldn't be in a hydra together.

Given that I sign my posts, it should be really easy for you to tell when you're talking to me and when you're not.

Also, since you keep taking out the context, here's the actual context for what you referred to:

Titus, you have always been bad at mafia. You're copying some of the most violently toxic players on the site, and the past few years haven't made you any better. I'd say that all they've done is give you an ego, but you had that since day 1 (and it was even less deserved then).

Get out of your fucking derp tunnel. You're going to complain that we're all bad and shit when it turns out we're all town and you're helping the scumteam, as usual, but it's basically your MO. I'm sure you have some game you want to link me to where you caught all the scum day 1 and everyone ignored you, but everyone ignored you because you're usually wrong, you live in tunnels, and you operate on pure confirmation bias.

You want to play like a fucking terrorist? Fine. You'll put yourself on the need to die list, and one way or another I will see that happen. I always, always do. That is a promise, by the way. If I'm town and I want someone to die, one way or another they fucking die. I don't by a long shot have a strong town read on you, and the more you flail about trying to threaten me (hah! If you had any fucking clue) then the more you move towards being a necessary death. You think I'm town and you're threatening me because I disagree with your reads, Titus, what does that say about you?

No. I am threatening you because you're scum or need to get your head out of your ass.

Calling me a terrorist while not taking an explicit position on Elbrin and calling me shitty.

You're just trying to rile me up.

This isn't about how good or bad I am. It's about the facts and lynching scum.

Comparing your post #2035 with Titus' response shows a pretty stark contrast. You are over the top frothing at the mouth (scary and a bit insane) ranting and going way over the top in attacking Titus. She looks quite calm in comparison.

@RP - You are toxic and I basically am going to just ignore you for the rest of the game. You admitted that you are on an alt because your previous play on this site got you a bad reputation, and your current play on your new account is doing the same thing. As far as I can tell, making a new account isn't actually going to help you. Perhaps if you drop your completely asinine nastiness towards anyone who disagrees with you, you will not be viewed as toxic. Once you work out your issues where you think your shit doesn't smell and you lash out at anyone and everyone, you should spend some time in the Road to Rome I think. If #2444 is a reliable sample of your play, it could use improving.

This is what he has time to write rather than reviewing and writing a damn thing about Itle, by the by.

Want everyone to remember that.

I type really fast, and I've asked you to point out where I lied repeatedly, and you have been unable to do so. I also don't have the first clue what you want me to talk about when it comes to Itle? Maybe if you realized who you are talking to you would like, I dunno, summarize your case or quote it or just ask me directly what you want my thoughts on?

Drixx, please convince me that itlepip isn't scum, because Titus is convinced he isn't.

Thanks.

Give me a case to look at? I'm not wading through nearly 2,500 posts, much of it nasty like #2035. Sorry, I'm just not willing to do it. I'm barely staying in the game as it is, given the amount of ugliness being dumped on me. I'll be quite happy to engage with you if you'll actually like give a case.

Like man, I was trying to talk to you. You decided to start a war because that was better than SIMPLY TALKING TO ME. And then you accuse me of creating noise in the thread. People tend to accuse others of what they themselves do as scum. Even when they're scum.

People should really consider that, because it's true. Think about your own scum play, you really notice behaviors you do as scum, even when you are scum. "Hey, that's something I would do!"

And here he is, not talking about Itle at all and personally attacking me. Creating noise in the thread.

Umm... here you are confusing Titus and me again. You never tried to engage me in civil discussion. You came out calling me a liar and making threats towards me. So far all you have done in response to any post I've made is dump noise into the game, refuse to settle down and act like an adult, refuse to actually point out anywhere that I lied despite numerous requests that you do so, refused to present any actual case against my slot, despite requests to do so, and repeatedly rage posted at me.

"Vote Learned Hand and put up with this pile of patronizing bullshit where we alternate between claiming you're too stupid to talk to and you won't be responding and doing a point by point rebuttal!

Deal with the scum hydra who will blame any inconsistencies on other the other head!"

Yeah, most people don't want to put up with that. Too bad for you I don't really care.

I'd like to step outside of the game and speak "OOC" for a moment. For your own mental health, I think you probably need to go for a walk or go do something else for awhile. I type really fast and you are flooding in a ridiculous amount of rage posts in a very short period of time. That amount of rage generally puts a lot of stress on the body's autonomic systems, raises blood pressure, and does a lot of other not so great things for your physical and mental well being.

Oh for fucks sake. You have a problem with being called retarded, and then you start the mental health shit?

Cerberus, why isn't this fucker the most obvious lying two-faced scumfuck who ever walked on the planet?

Mental health has nothing to do with developmental retardation. Your posts indicate an unhealthy mental state. I suggested you go do something else for awhile so you can come back and talk to me like an adult. The fact that you cannot even recognize that I'm trying to step outside of the game and help you as a person is disturbing.

What's further disturbing is that you respond to my attempt to talk to you human being to human being, outside the context of this game, by calling me "...this fucker the most obvious lying two-faced scumfuck who ever walked..." - Apparently you missed the part earlier where I talked about the distinction between using a word for what it actually means and using a word to intentionally denigrate and insult someone. I used myself as an example, and pointed out that I am crippled. I haven't walked in decades. Thanks for going after me in the nastiest way you possibly could ... especially when I've made myself vulnerable by talking about it in an attempt to calm the game down, and even

more especially

in response to a post where I clearly stepped outside of the game and tried to talk to you without the context of the game being in between us.

[Back "In Character" - I'm still waiting for you to actually like quote me lying. Mafia is a game where people of all alignments lie and deceive for various reasons. You are repeatedly calling us "Lying scum" and "The scum hydra" and so on and so forth, but so far as I've seen, you haven't actually demonstrated that we lied anywhere.

Furthermore, I don't believe either of us ever said that we never post without consulting one another. We talk on slack when we can, but we both possess agency. We can act on our own.

As for your assertion that I just now soft claimed ... erm ... we've softed basically the whole day phase, all the way back to our first posts. If you choose to ignore the part where I point out to you the evidence that we long ago softed what we are and someone would either have a pretty good idea what we are or would have to assume we're really terrible players because of it ... that's on you. You don't get to just say something and have it be true and line up with reality just because you are misinformed (or intentionally trying to misinform others). I was quite clear that we had made posts thousands of posts ago that I'm sure most of the game caught on to and they have some idea what we are.

I'm sorry you missed it... but that's not excuse for frothing at the mouth rage posts.

This is the end of me talking with you until you show you can calm down and have a rational adult conversation. I warned you when I started posting that I was only going to talk to you right now unless you stopped, and you've kept up with the toxic posts and rage posting, so if you can't behave, I will simply ignore you. I don't need the stress, and I have no interest in helping you flood the game with noise.

The proverbial ball is in your court mate.


With affection,
Drixx

TALK TO ME ABOUT ITLE SCUMFUCK

Okay ... I'll take that as you telling me that you don't want to talk to me civil and like an adult. I won't be responding to you again for the duration of the game. You'll have to deal exclusively with Titus.

Show Titus you can be a rational adult and get her to convince me and I'll start reading what you say again. I am otherwise done with you.


~Drixx

[Learned Hand]

Then he lies as town. That's probably a reflection of his character more than anything.

He's lying scum here.

Did you seriously just not only attack me personally, but come after me outside of the context of mafia? Yeah ... done with you. Going to the sitemods.

~Drixx

[Learned Hand]

@LH

Drix can you please tell me why you townread ittle ? I would very much appreciate it if you did or point me to the post, if you have done so already.

^_^

Please answer

That's me. Itepip is frankly obvious town. Roleplay is baiting us to respond to a case that FMPOV doesn't exist and he can then insult us and say we didn't disprove the non existant case.

There is ZERO reason to scumread itlepip or frankly anyone Elbrin has scumread that is based in reason logic or fact.

I know I skipped over like 30 posts but I don't care. My town pool are town. You don't want to follow me. Fine. Just don't lynch my townreads.

[Learned Hand]

RP, in your world, everything in all of those posts was theory? Do I really need to go back to those posts and bold everything that is actual discussion?

Can you stop feeding RP troll and just work with us Shiro Dave to get a lynch off?

Let's get town agreeing.

[Learned Hand]

That's me. Itepip is frankly obvious town. Roleplay is baiting us to respond to a case that FMPOV doesn't exist and he can then insult us and say we didn't disprove the non existant case.

So you haven't read my case, because you haven't read the thread, but you have read the thread because you know Itle is town because you're following along.

Yes, you are trying to bluster your way out of this.

What case? I saw buzzwords.

[Learned Hand]

Drix can you please tell me why you townread ittle ? I would very much appreciate it if you did or point me to the post, if you have done so already.

^_^

I'm pretty sure I haven't ever said anything about what I think about Itle. I'll put this in very plain language so maybe that will help: This game started right at the holidays. I posted a little bit early in the game, and I'm pretty sure both Titus and I talked about knowing there were potentially multiple Millers and Godfathers in play. We began that process by throwing out a demand for people with a variety of modifiers to their role to come forward so that we wouldn't tip our hand on what exactly we knew and render the exercise pointless.

After that, the holidays arrived, and surprise visit from the in laws unexpectedly. After that I had strep throat (Cerb can attest to this since we have a DND group that meets Sundays and Tuesdays and I missed the Tuesday after Christmas because of it). I recovered by New Year's Eve and started catching up with my games site wide. I believe there was already some toxic posts that made this game uncomfortable by that point, but that's purely from memory. Sunday the 3rd, after my DND session, I began to experience Autonomic Dysreflexia due to some digestive problems that happen occasionally because my spinal injury has a negative impact on how certain systems in my body function. From Sunday night until Tuesday night at around 10pm, I was dealing with the (very dangerous) effects of the Dysreflexia, and back and forth to the Washroom a great many times. I took site wide V/LA during that time. I can get graphic if you really want, but I think you get the picture.

Wednesday (yesterday) I caught up with this game, although I skimmed a great deal of it because it was absurdly toxic. The only thing I posted yesterday was my point about avoiding instigating and provoking people and trying to behave like adults. I'm obviously not the only one bothered by the fact that some people seem incapable of anything but rage posting. The thread got locked last night and when I noticed it was unlocked, I saw that a few people were talking about wagoning my slot and I made a post to just head it off, and got blindsided by pages of Rage Posting.

Drixx, you're gonna die today without responding to him. Serio.

Also, my case doesn't matter. All that matters is titus firmly believe that itle shouldn't be lynched today. The case is weak as fuck,and I expected it to get holes poked through it...but the weakness of the case doesn't explain the certain townread exhibited by the other head in your slot..

Also, Drixx, you know I love answering posts for other people. It's just something I do. Don't act surprised that I'm doing it. Man, you and Titus both keep trying to chide me for behaviors you should be well aware are normal for me.

I gave RP a chance to be an adult and get to sit at the adults table and talk to me. He responded how he responded. That's on him.

I have absolutely no idea why Titus is sure that Itle shouldn't be lynched today. She also doesn't understand why I spent most of the day telling her that you are never a good lynch candidate on day one and that we should be able to easily read whether you are town or not by day 3. Ask her.

As for the ridiculous wagon forming, Titus can bitch at me later:

We are informed town.

We know there are multiple millers and godfathers in the game. We have {at least one} other thing{s} that I won't claim no matter what, even at L-1. Please see Mafiaception if you don't believe me. I would rather eat a mislynch because scum are afraid of what I will refuse to reveal even at L-1 and let the town benefit from their paranoia than reveal something that the rest of my faction (town) really doesn't need to know right now, and which will only help scum if I said it.

it seems that half of the players are posting with the explicit aim to rile each other up, and for a start that's scummy (since senseless noise and arguments rather than actual scumhunting is what scum thrives off), and it also makes the game unfun because people don't want to get involved in a shitstorm, and would thus rather just stand back and avoid it.

Scum thrives on this kind of schism and argument. Stop it and work together.

still relevant.

I agree. Do you honestly feel like I have not tried repeatedly to get RP to calm down and actually talk to me about what he thinks I've lied about or what case he has on my slot or what case he wants me to respond to?

it seems that half of the players are posting with the explicit aim to rile each other up, and for a start that's scummy (since senseless noise and arguments rather than actual scumhunting is what scum thrives off), and it also makes the game unfun because people don't want to get involved in a shitstorm, and would thus rather just stand back and avoid it.

Scum thrives on this kind of schism and argument. Stop it and work together.

still relevant.

it seems that half of the players are posting with the explicit aim to rile each other up, and for a start that's scummy (since senseless noise and arguments rather than actual scumhunting is what scum thrives off), and it also makes the game unfun because people don't want to get involved in a shitstorm, and would thus rather just stand back and avoid it.

Scum thrives on this kind of schism and argument. Stop it and work together.

still relevant.

Tis sad : (

*nods*

And this is my fault because....?


~Drixx

P-Edit: That's a bit rash Cerberus. I just hard claimed, and it's possible RP is literally so enraged he doesn't realize he's talking to two separate people, despite the fact that I pointed it out to him calmly several times, and I sign all my posts. I mean ... I'm at the point where I can see he is deliberately pretending to misunderstand, so FMPOV he should go, but I didn't ask for a 1v1.

[Learned Hand]

@RP

Well it not impossible to just trust someone elses insticts in a hydra.

It's quite possible. I have known Cerberus for years, and we have played mafia together for years and we frequently hydra together. Titus has asked me on slack (how we communicate) repeatedly if she could go after Cerb because she thinks he's scum. I have told her repeatedly that he gets misread as scum all the time because he, like me, approaches the game from a rationalist viewpoint and we both use logic and decision theory/game theory to solve mafia games. The problem with our approach is that during day one there is a distinct lack of reliable information to work with, so we both have weak early games.

So she has withheld going after Cerb because I know him way better than she does and I told her that we can sort him a lot better in a couple days when he'll have no excuse not to be making productive contributions to hunting scum.

I just got done watching Titus ridiculously rapidly properly identify town, organize them and help synergize their abilities, and completely nail the entire scum team on day one of the Suikoden game. I even went back and read a bunch of her games, in addition to the ones I've been in, and found that she's right way more often than probability says she should be, and she's generally way ahead of the curve. There are some bad games in there, but she's generally much better than the average (by a huge margin over me) at identifying town early and using that to PoE to scum.

So if Titus thinks someone is town on day one, I'm not inclined to argue with her about it. I can always make a case later on if they slip up in their narrative. Finding scum because they screw up their narrative is right in my wheelhouse. I don't need to argue with my hydra partner about crap on day one. It's day freaking one.

[Learned Hand]

Wait a second. Wait one damn second.

Forgive us for the brief not subtle dalliance.

We know there is at least one miller in the game

, and possibly more. We are adopting this roleplay style to be unquestioned. Given the formatting, I am inclined to believe both are millers

We are informed town.

We know there are multiple millers and godfathers in the game.

We have {at least one} other thing{s} that I won't claim no matter what, even at L-1. Please see Mafiaception if you don't believe me. I would rather eat a mislynch because scum are afraid of what I will refuse to reveal even at L-1 and let the town benefit from their paranoia than reveal something that the rest of my faction (town) really doesn't need to know right now, and which will only help scum if I said it.

Like you two might be different people. You might have different reads. You might think different thoughts. You might act differently, you might not even talk to each other.

But by god

you two got the same role PM

THESE CLAIMS DON'T MATCH

Uhm how so? I mean Titus did say possible more.(which you didnt bold) and that given teh formatting she was inclined to believe that we are both being honest.

Like I said ... we played things close to the vest early. The first move we made wasn't even limited to the information we have. When trying to trap scum, you don't draw scum a map for how to avoid your trap. I'm sure most people understand that the words "at least" do in fact match up with "multiple". The whole point of our early questioning with the information we had was to get people to commit.

For example, nobody has claimed Godfather. It's possible for a town godfather to exist and so now that I hard claimed part of our role, investigative roles are informed for sure of something that was previously only hinted at.

And obviously anyone who now tries to claim being a town Godfather can get insta-lynched because they should have claimed that when we prompted it way back on the first day of the game.


Titus suggested I hard claim the other part of our role, but I don't see how it helps town, so I'm sticking with what I said. I won't claim it, even at L-1 with intent. All I can say is that given the mechanics that

we are aware of

in this game, what we do is super helpful to town and our fellow townies would regret the loss of it.

[Learned Hand]

@Titus

If not for Elbring (and excluding cerb and RP who I think are town) who would you lynch?

At this point, damn near no one. Their buddyingand attacking town is toxic.

I am down for one v one on RP.

It removes RP from this game which Dram should have done ages ago.

If we get lynched, then you KNOW to lynch within my not town pool.

Drixx, you didn't ask for it, but Titus did when she just showed up and didn't address the thing RP has been screaming about for the last 2 pages.
Pedit: right now you're losing Titus.

Like I care.

RP is toxic to this site and toxic to the game. He hasn't had one coherent thought this game and is encouraging bullsit

Now I have work and other games to deal with. I hate this game but subbing out just rewards RP's behavior.

Titus, Elbrin has a role that is confirmable, so he is off the table today.

We are too. Basf

Picking up hydra slips for Titus. Last post was also by me.

~Drixx


P.S. - I love that "Basf" thing. It's really clever.

[Learned Hand]

@Drixx

Why you quoting me ? I am kinda agreeing with you. I hate this 1v1 you two created though cause I feel both of you are town.

Drixx other than El and RP who do oyu think is scum ?

I'm quoting you because you make sense, and people can understand that I'm responding to someone I am simply not willing to interact with anymore because the quote of you gives the context.

I don't have any really firm scum reads to give you at the moment, mostly because I did a lot of skimming on my catch up. If you have someone you would like my specific thoughts on, please let me know.

I'll be away for a bit. I have to get some other things done.

[Learned Hand]

Multiple and at least one are not dissimilar enough to scream contradiction.

It's pretty clear that they deliberately phrased things in the fashion meant to give the least information possible.

However, your claim doesn't do shit to make you town, LH. That's information you can easily have by having a godfather on your team and a role that somehow relates to millers.

I claimed informed townie. You can believe it or not. I have something much more enjoyable to attend to.

[Learned Hand]

Titus: when you say multiple millers and godfathers, do you mean there are at least 2 of each, or there is at least 2 roles which have EITHER of those modifiers.

The latter.

I gotta go.

Be back later. Lynch me or not. I don't care. Just after we flip follow us.

~Titus

[Learned Hand]

VOTE: Mass Flop

Let's call some people on bullshit.

@cerb, no one has given a reason why he's scum (I know rp claims he did) and his wagon composition is pushed by the same people who tried to mislynch every other townie.

[Learned Hand]

Errant, I want you to watch what I do and who I interact with in the coming days, and then decide your shot tomorrow based on that. I know it's selfish, but I know what I'm doing.

That's fine. Okay with this.

Learned Hand- i am willing to lynch you but i am also willing to go along with cerb's attitude.
Cerberus v666- i am personally uncomfortable with writing you off as town.
3dicerolling- disliked early game but i like you more
Elbirn- LH v Elbirn I prefer Elbirn as townier.
Mass Flop- i thought early game was decent, but i am WAY less confident about the slot. out of the people i'd like to see dead, i would least like to see you dead. best of the worst, essentially.
itlepip- i thought itle's entrance was good, and i don't know about roleplay's case but i can understand cerb's.
roleplay25- if scum, damn good one.

So I am fine with DS being out of this lynchpool for today, seeing as it's not gonna happen.
Elbirn has made himself look more towny in my eyes. I'm willing to eliminate Elbirn and RP from this lynch list personally, and I see cerb as not gonna happen.

Everyone make a list of who they see themselves lynching D1. Please, for my sake. I'd like for us to consolidate and fast.
My list is: Mass Flop, itlepip, 3dice, Learned Hand.
If momentum on LH is reversing (which it seems like it is) then I am more than willing to go with VOTE: itlepip right now.

The only one I would consider on your list is flop. 3dice has been really townie lately.

[Learned Hand]

I'll say it now, my explanation for the townread is that they chose me to WK, but then couldn't actually find a reason to townread me ( ) so they got stuck on their read. That's why I'm okay with an LH lynch today.

My fucking God are you kidding me? I already said your wagon is blatantly scum driven. It's like the IQ of town drops when I saw it.

[Learned Hand]

And yes, of course titus. Scum would absolutely just shove itlepips lynch down the towns throat in a super obvious fashion rather than just letting us screw around and no lynch today at no risk to themselves.

Totally. /s

You not getting a lynch off is a huge risk given my townblock here. I just have to get them to agree.

Now I am going to pour through your ISO looking for a reason.

Wake up and push a scumread not someone you don't like Cerb.

[Learned Hand]

...

I will say one more thing, although I will warn you that speculation could lead you to make very poor assumptions so do be careful: I submitted the choice for character to play as before this became a hydra. In fact, I gave Dramonic two different choices if I was randomly assigned town and a different choice if I was randomly assigned scum, all of which come from what I would argue is the best television series ever aired: Babylon 5. I'll be happy to reveal the characters that Dramonic chose not to use after the game, but the one that we were given is G'kar (although Dram spelled it G'car, probably to irritate me). You have what you need to go and find the flavor. I will say that the role we have fits nicely with the character.

Of course, the character is ambiguous. Depending on where you step into the story, you could view the character as altruistically good, self-serving good, neutral, or any number of attributes that fall under "bad". Before I close, a particularly apt quote from our character: "We are all the sum of our tears. Too little and the ground is not fertile and nothing can grow there; too much, the best of us is washed away."

G'Kar was awesome. Can't wait to learn who your other choice was.

Everyone should watch that series.

Klingon, you're an IC. Please put out lists of scum for us to lynch from.

[Learned Hand]

Hmm. I think I'll do this.

VOTE: Itlepip

Primary reason? Hard pushing sharky as the proper target for the shot errant had, AND not following through on his claim to lynch EP if he shot elsewhere. Like he didn't even try, didn't even look into EP being scum, or talk about it at all, while other people WERE discussing it. Super weird and inconsistent. Dunno why scum him wouldn't have jumped on the EP hate train with DS though. But, eh, we're down to 3 days. I can't figure everything out before deadline.

Pushing a Sharky shot isn't terrible and not a reason to scumread itlepip. The obvious expectation here is that EP isn't going to push a buddy. Like at all.

You are better than this as town. Which makes me think you aren't.

[Learned Hand]

@cerb, so let me get this straight, you throw out a shitty case. You expect resistance (you got it from me) and got unexpected Sheeping. Did you ever consider that scum are blatantly sheeping shit cases and avoiding the good ones and causing lots of drama to ensure scum do not get lynched?

@EP, you should be uncomfortable with Cerb. His bring terrible D1 doesn't excuse the lack of effort and shitty cases. It's a ok to be wrong. Not ok to try. If Cerb is town, he's paralyzed by fear.

[Learned Hand]

@cerb, I would stop disparaging if I could see the thought. In Sudikoen you hardly pushed. In Stevens Universe, same deal. Here, again. You state you're terrible D1 but had suspicions on me.

In Sudoken, you were an obstacle in town's way until you woke up and saw the townblock. You didn't push anything despite multiple requests to do do.

Inorganic Chemistry, same pattern.

To me, it appears you're too busy wanting to be right when you swing. By then, you don't show everyone your alignment. By showing us, even your wrong thoughts, it makes you trackable. If I can't track you, I want to lynch you.

People spend time talking about what is important to them. You'll see in my ISO i focus on defending town just as hard if not harder than lynching scum d1. Why? Because town wins if we see each other. Your I am terrible D1 is a self fulfilling prophecy.

Take a shot. Who out of my lynchable pool is scum? Go after them. Hard.

[Learned Hand]

...

I will say one more thing, although I will warn you that speculation could lead you to make very poor assumptions so do be careful: I submitted the choice for character to play as before this became a hydra. In fact, I gave Dramonic two different choices if I was randomly assigned town and a different choice if I was randomly assigned scum, all of which come from what I would argue is the best television series ever aired: Babylon 5. I'll be happy to reveal the characters that Dramonic chose not to use after the game, but the one that we were given is G'kar (although Dram spelled it G'car, probably to irritate me). You have what you need to go and find the flavor. I will say that the role we have fits nicely with the character.

Of course, the character is ambiguous. Depending on where you step into the story, you could view the character as altruistically good, self-serving good, neutral, or any number of attributes that fall under "bad". Before I close, a particularly apt quote from our character: "We are all the sum of our tears. Too little and the ground is not fertile and nothing can grow there; too much, the best of us is washed away."

G'Kar was awesome. Can't wait to learn who your other choice was.

Everyone should watch that series.

Klingon, you're an IC. Please put out lists of scum for us to lynch from.

Between me being sick and the 105-pages-long thread being clogged by toxins, I'm putting out one name only:

VOTE: Roleplay25

I think he's Scum, but even if he isn't he's far too anti-Town to keep in the game. Call it policy if you want.

As much as I would love a dead roleplay, you should give all your reads ATM.

It gives a pool for Jeanne to track at least.

[Learned Hand]

I've heard the suikoden game thrown around so much that i'm beginning to think it's some legend or something

ps titus i feel like you suggesting that cerb should only go after those in your lynchable pool is a bit off. are you preemptively expecting cerb to cooperate? and why?

Cerb has seen the power of my townblocks. Second, it's not so much that I expect him to cooperate (although he should given he's seen my townblocking power). It's more I am not lynching my townblock so I don't want him to focus where he has one hell of a fight.

The idea behind that game is that I caught scum early and Marshalled the town to win while dying N1 with arguably the most anti-town role in the game but I wish I had it here.

[Learned Hand]

Wait, are you scum reading cerb or not, LH?

Scumreading but keeping an open mind. A bad habit of mine is I tunnel scumreads but my townreads are much more accurate.

[Learned Hand]

@cerb, VCA is a method I have of tracking your thoughts. :/

[Learned Hand]

Hmm. Mass flops push on davsto is nonsensical for scum. :-/ Bah. So many things that don't make sense and counteract all the suspicious behavior I see. :-/

Then tell us what doesn't make sense. Let me in that head of yours. Why doesn't it make sense? Doing this helps me read you.

[Learned Hand]

Titus, sorry if you've asked this before. Who do you consider to be "in your camp" right now?
And do those people townread you as well?
I feel like your efforts to establish a townblock haven't been obvious and from the little I know of your play, that's a primary objective of yours when you're town.

Me
Jeanne
Itepip
Klingon
DiamondSentinel
You
Davesto


Considering adding 3dice


Not good to lynch today Sharky

[Learned Hand]

Wait, are you scum reading cerb or not, LH?

Scumreading but keeping an open mind. A bad habit of mine is I tunnel scumreads but my townreads are much more accurate.

Is this scum read entirely based on meta, or the fact that cerb isn't voting?

Wrong question. I can't track Cerb's thoughts. It's not meta as he always does this. I can't sort those who I cannot track thoughts of.

[Learned Hand]

Me
Jeanne
Itepip
Klingon
DiamondSentinel
You
Davesto

1. I can't help but think this is pretty weak because 5 of the 6 are claimed roles. I don't understand why you would ask cerb on not lynching in your townblock when, again, 5 of the 6 members of your townblock are pretty much not gonna get lynched D1.
2. I know that I am again shifting the burden of proof to your side, and for that, I am once again sorry. Could you sell me on 3dice?

You will find, minus you, that I townread all but you and DS preclaim and I don't consider girlfriends a claim. I forgot Shiro in my list, blah fatigue but that was post claim too. I set that up bc I am pretty sure the millers would be town and scum would swing there. This isn't townreads based on claims. That's a coincidence that they claimed. Jeanne imploded bc I taught her how to play cop wrong (only wifom AFTER being outed as cop not before). DS was spontaneous. Shiro was at our request. Klingon claim I tried to prevent.

You're not shifting the burden of proof here. I am the persuader thus the burden is mine. If you want to convince me to lynch 3dice, the burden moves to you. Anyway, for 3dice his thoughts seem pretty transparent and the search through the ISO to see that we wanted miller claims early rings pretty town to me.

[Learned Hand]

Also...you know I don't care about helping you read me. I actively like being scumread/unread.

Anyways, so a trip down itlepips iso( a lazy trip) reminded me that he was also riling up jeanne, and he defended TN/questioned tn's wagon, in addition to pushing that sharky be shot. Hmm.

You know how antitown as fuck that is? You know I am trying to get town identified and to work together and you tell me to take a hike. Why?

[Learned Hand]

So you're deliberately harming my early town game so I am alive later.

That's epic MOONLOGIC and that's saying something coming from me.

[Learned Hand]

I don't understand why you would ask cerb on not lynching in your townblock when, again, 5 of the 6 members of your townblock are pretty much not gonna get lynched D1.

LH I'd like you to clarify this.
Elbirn if you want to lynch itle, why not vote?
I might as well go iso 3dice to confirm what you say, Titus.

Gfdhgfjhgkhgjhgkhgjhg

I feel like that is what I type sometimes. I don't want to fight. All I have been doing is pleading for town not to be dumb and trying to lead us to victory but get met with mounds of garbage and no one even discusses how scummy Elbrin is. I just want anyone but my townreads lynched atm. So I would rather not fight Cerb on the off chance I am wrong.

This itepip lynch is scum driven. He'll even Cerb thinks his case is bad and he votes there rather than make a good one?

[Learned Hand]

There are a number of things that I really like about 3dice's early play.
There are a number of things that I don't like about 3dice's early play.
Ultimately I'm going to agree with you and conclude town.

He can be town for today and reasses. I don't like his early stuff with me but like everything else. Given I am town though and scum start is to provoke....

[Learned Hand]

My original case was bad. I found further evidence of actions I could see scum taking, which restored my faith in that particular lynch. Look at my posts.

What evidence? The last I left off you told me your reasons were in your vote, which you and I thoroughly agreed was shitty.

[Learned Hand]

@LH

What about 3dice vote on you? I found that to be pretty bad seeing as he said he was townreading you, then went

Let's do this

*votes *

Pressured by scum to remove noise after calling me noise all the time. People crack. I don't policy lynch though for that reason. He's in my town for the day pile not town I would die for pile.

[Learned Hand]

Also...you know I don't care about helping you read me. I actively like being scumread/unread.

Anyways, so a trip down itlepips iso( a lazy trip) reminded me that he was also riling up jeanne, and he defended TN/questioned tn's wagon, in addition to pushing that sharky be shot. Hmm.

I don't see him riling up jeanne, being wrong isn't scummy, and we discussed Sharky shot. Were pip's reasons bad?

[Learned Hand]

@Jeanne, I get that. Can you stop voting obvtown and vote anyone else ty?

@Cerb, The reasons you profess are shit and itepip bleeds town are reasons. This head will not vote him.

[Learned Hand]

Fuck y'all. Please vig me tomorrow. Town is dumb. There was no reason for that lynch.

There was zero scum evidence. I cased Elbrin and was spammed out and fucking ignored.

Have Errant Desperado us tomorrow.

Then we will fucking guide you.

Tomorrow we Lynch who Drixx and I want until we are wrong.

If we die Cerb Elbrin Mass Flop is lynch pool.

Picking up slips.

Mass Flop is scum. He was the lynch that would have compromised everyone. Instead, people voted pip. The people suggesting Flop in my pool has zero intention of lynching scum. No one made a comment on how I provided zero reason for flop beyond compromise. Why? Because itepip was the scum mislynch like I said all along.

Elbrin is scum for why I outlined. If RP is town, Elbrin is double scum trying to push lh v RP. Now that RP isn't focused solely on proving me wrong, his posts have improved. I hope it continues into tomorrow.

I still think Errant is desperado. If not, the optimal play is to shoot Sparky as the language I suggested was unambiguous.

[Learned Hand]

Ok, if y'all want to lynch us. Lynch us. I was wrong. I still didn't see a valid reason for itlepip wagon.

Shiro, I protected you by having an entire alternative scenario ready to go. :nod:

I was going to basf Jeanne, but [redacted] had us draw sheep.

[Learned Hand]

Welp redacted is Elbrin. Lo fucking L.

[Learned Hand]

Basf? I do not know what that is.

Roleplay. Answer my question.

Basf tagline. We don't make the products you buy. We make the products you buy better.

We don't do anything but make roles better. :nod:

[Learned Hand]

You don't look tow to me. If you were town, you would have joined the wagon instead of trying to disperse it. It was less than 24 hours till deadline at that point. In Suikoden, when there were four days left, you told me to worry when it was Monday/one day before the deadline with no lynch. In this game, you showed no signs of following your own advice.

That meant worry the lynch would not go through.

I fight hard for my team or who I think is my team.

I don't really want to spend time defending ourselves. If you want to murder us, let us claim and murder us.

[Learned Hand]

Jeanne, whoever you tracked is likely conftown though. So who did you track?

[Learned Hand]

Jeanne is weak. She would be dead if we were scum.

Theory disagreement on claiming.

@Cerb,

I was sent to draw sheep at Elbrin. We targeted Jeanne.

[Learned Hand]

LH, that's not what I asked. Seriously ,it's a simple question.

Did something you DID NOT EXPECT happen with regards to your action last night?

Did you receive an UNEXPECTED MESSAGE FROM THE MODERATOR last night?

I don't care what you attempted to do, or why you did it, or what the effect was. So, please, nobody tell me any further information than just the answers to the two questions above.

RP: That's a very interesting thought. Is it possible that we're playing multiball, and we wiped out one team yesterday? Given that there was no zombie sort of flavor in the flips for the scum we killed?

pedit: yeah, LH, umm, you aren't making any sense. You missed the fact that Jeanne's weak modifier is non-standard, AND you claim that you targeted her, while she's claiming to have received a result from her tracking last night?

AGAIN DO NOT VOTE ANYMORE PEOPLE. ACTUALLY PLEASE UNVOTE. IF WE ACTUALLY DID JUST CATCH SCUM, IT IS EVEN MORE IMPORTANT TO NOT JUST RUSH THE DAY AND WASTE OUR ADVANTAGE.

Ok, let me say this for the third time.

We submitted targeting Jeanne.
We were redirected to draw sheepbat Elbrin.

That's the weird message we got.

[Learned Hand]

@Cerb, Yes to both.

@Roleplay, I am going to laugh at Drixx with the irony of that.

[Learned Hand]

@Roleplay, the more you push that, the more I am going to think you are scum.

If we target someone, they cannot be blocked. That's what we do. Lol.

[Learned Hand]

@Jeanne, that's literally not possible...

[Learned Hand]

My role PM says that if I am targeted with any action, I am blocked. ANY ACTION.

And my role pm says that if I target someone I force their ability to go through.

I figured scum would target you.

[Learned Hand]

You were supposed to get LH targets Jeanne. Your brain would a exploded.

[Learned Hand]

I think our result condemns Elbrin but I wanted to talk to Drixx given weird mechanics.

[Learned Hand]

As valuable as her tracks are, RP, I can see valid reasons for testing her claim. Weak tracker is zero utility if scum have any way to target them left, so it's a claim that could live till endgame if she just keeps getting rb'd. Barring a watcher, of course.

Thanks MF. 3dice?

Pedit: titusclaim makes sense. Hmph. Less haste cuz it makes waste. More thought on the rest of the play.

Do we sincerely believe scum!titus would miss that aspect of Jeanne's claim?

Although, on second thought....LH, explain how you both thought her weak modifier was standard, AND targeted her with the only ability you could use which wouldn't block her?

I viewed them and still do as separate modifiers.

We are conftown BC Jeanne iscweak.
We visited Jeanne to force her action through.

[Learned Hand]

There is a clear contradiction between your attempt to use her weak modifier as proof that you were town, and your claim to have known scum would target her and you were trying to ensure her track would work.

Umm noooo the whole point to our role is that we force Jeanne's result through.

Basf.

[Learned Hand]

@Elbrin, let me confirm LH isn't lying.

LH needs to die.

That doesn't work.

VOTE: Elbrin

[Learned Hand]

@Roleplay, That's a lie.

I have always said two parts. Informed townie is first part. Roleblock preventer is the second.

[Learned Hand]

Let me discuss with Drixx so we can get a readwall. Scum see blood in the water. I have work in an hour or two.

@Jeanne,

No. I had stated I was two part prior to your wagon.


@All, not going to defend ourselves all day. Jeanne ducking confirmed us as town.

Y'all wanna be stupid fine. Shoot us.

You want to talk reads. We are willing.

[Learned Hand]

I believe that. What I don't believe is that your 2nd ability is a RB preventer.

I actually hinted at that yesterday when I said for you to act and trust me. :/ and basf.

[Learned Hand]

@Cerb, My understanding is the nonstandard was the blocked if anyone targeted her. If she doesn't die when she targets mafia, then she isn't weak at all.

My ability prevents role blocks, so I targeted the scum that could be blocked that way.

[Learned Hand]

*the person scum could block that way. Garbled thought.

@Jeanne,

I was referring to my crymb. I know you won't trust me.

[Learned Hand]

Plan for today:

Shoot LH, lynch Mass Flop

Mass flop has been bad this game, and they were in my lynchpool

But I'm actually kinda concerned with the way lh had them in their lynch pool and wanted to shift the wagon off pip and onto them

@Roleplay, That's a lie.

I have always said two parts. Informed townie is first part. Roleblock preventer is the second.

Roleblock preventer just happened today and...is weird. Actually yeah lol I'm the roleblocker, scum need a counter to me. Bye titus *waves*

Anyway yeah I don't get rb preventer anywhere from your earlier posts...at all. And you said you improve roles earlier today. Soo.

I do improve roles. I make them unblockable.

[Learned Hand]

Oh, also, Elbirn, my question was directed to everyone. It was the very first post I made today.

2. Edgar Allan Pro
3. Klingoncelt
6. 3dicerolling
10. sharky5x(firebringer)
11. Davsto
16. zmuffinman

If you are on the above list, I need to know if you received any unexpected messages from the mod, and if something unexpected happened with regards to your action last night.

I don't need to know what unexpected thing happened, or what you were trying to do, or anything. just if things did not happen as planned and/or you received an unexpected message from the mod. If I need more information from you, I will ask at that point.

pedit: So LH, you believed that her weak modifier had two effects?

Yes.

[Learned Hand]

@Roleplay, Because I wanted to get the miller info out without full claiming.

@Elbrin, Or you're a scum redirector.

[Learned Hand]

Would make perfect sense with your role. Town has tracker, scum have Ninja. Town has cop, scum have millers and godfathers. Town has roleblocker, scum can go through roleblock. Makes you miserable.

Umm EP flipped town miller...

Scumslip that you're scum with Shiro?

[Learned Hand]

Nah FB.

I already claimed punching bag for being wrong D1. (Not literal role claim).

[Learned Hand]

Would make perfect sense with your role. Town has tracker, scum have Ninja. Town has cop, scum have millers and godfathers. Town has roleblocker, scum can go through roleblock. Makes you miserable.

Umm EP flipped town miller...

Scumslip that you're scum with Shiro?

That's super weak. RP clearly means both millers and godfathers serve as roles that decrease the power of cops.

There is a reason why I had a question and I didn't immediately vote.

Kinda fine w my death as it confirms Elbrin as redirector or Jeanne made up track results so...

[Learned Hand]

@FB,

Can you wish for the mod to post my role PM publicly and give me a gun if I am town? Ty.

[Learned Hand]

@FB, I am the likely vig shot anyway, so let's confirm me as town and get like 3 confirmations today.

You wish to post my role PM publicly AND only if I am town give me a gun.

@Cerb, can you draft the language? So no one can think I am shady on it.

[Learned Hand]

@3dice,

I would rather do my wish as I am essential to Jeanne's role to function. If that's what the town wants, ok but my wish is better.

[Learned Hand]

If Jeanne isn't actually weak, an we call her a nerfed tracker instead?

I am asking Cerb to suggest language and FB to do that. So I cannot make a loop hole.

The wish isn't game breaking, so let's see.

[Learned Hand]

@3dice,

I would rather do my wish as I am essential to Jeanne's role to function. If that's what the town wants, ok but my wish is better.

Tbh, I don't think dramonic will allow your dream to go through.

Ditto, but it's super interesting to comtemplate. We don't need to necessarily give you a gun though. A day cop though, that could be useful and not as swingy.

Agreed on we need a full fb claim ASAP.

Totally fine with daycop too.

[Learned Hand]

Daycop isn't as good as vig due to gf possibility but works well.

[Learned Hand]

Oh, also, Elbirn, my question was directed to everyone. It was the very first post I made today.

2. Edgar Allan Pro
3. Klingoncelt
6. 3dicerolling
10. sharky5x(firebringer)
11. Davsto
16. zmuffinman

If you are on the above list, I need to know if you received any unexpected messages from the mod, and if something unexpected happened with regards to your action last night.

I don't need to know what unexpected thing happened, or what you were trying to do, or anything. just if things did not happen as planned and/or you received an unexpected message from the mod. If I need more information from you, I will ask at that point.

pedit: So LH, you believed that her weak modifier had two effects?

Listen, Cerberus: You know I always put humanity first but I would really prefer it if this order came from The Illusive Man himself.

I have no idea what you're talking about EAP. Please just answer the question kthxbye.


LH, proposed dream verbiage:

"I dream that Learned Hand's full unaltered role card, as originally messaged to them by the moderator, is revealed in the thread immediately, and if that role card shows they are aligned with the Bystanders(town) they receive a one shot *insert ability here*"

Yes. Just please don't make it an ability that can kill us given we only get it if we are town and we help Jeanne's role.

[Learned Hand]

Let's shut up so FB can catch up.

In a few minutes, I gotta go dark for several hours.

[Learned Hand]

Making you bulletproof is probably the strongest play if we can make you conftown.

Also in concerned about the fact that if you are scum, the dream is ineligible because an unaltered scum role includes teammates.

Then redo the phrasing something like

Unaltered role pm but for redacting any hypothetical teammates and pt links.

It's unnecessary and I didn't think of that but from yours it is

[Learned Hand]

@Firebringer, Can you focus on dream language with Cerb? Ty.

Answering Verb's question, full claiming and getting the dream done should be your focus.

[Learned Hand]

@Elbrin, I wasn't considering the possibility I wasn't town there.

Can you stop this filler crap unless you have objections to my role PM being posted and if I am honest being bulletproof? Cuz I am honest. It just makes it harder on FB and Cerb to prove it.

I gtg work.

[Learned Hand]

I would like to repeat that I prefer the idea of preventing a mistake if possible, but I feel like you all want blood.

Yup. Can you draft language for FB?

[Learned Hand]

Cerb, Cerb, you have to understand. Mafia is a game of murder. Scum is trying to kill us. We're murdering people hoping to kill them in the process. Preserving townies and avoiding mistakes is an illusion. The only certainty is a mod flip. A gun or desperado gives us two flips. That means two flips before we have to give the killing role back over to them.

Really, from a moral perspective, if this were real life then we'd all be absolutely evil, scum and town alike. You need to think more like an evil person. When we control the murder, killing is good. It's only their killing that's bad. All the other stuff is like noise in the thread and shit. Especially with half our roles being conditional maybe possibly hypnotoad banana cupcake silliness.

T
His makes me think you just wanna stop Jeanne.

[Learned Hand]

If I am alive doc heals Jeanne, I get bp. Jeanne gets two tracks. One tonight and one when I die.

[Learned Hand]

If I am alive doc heals Jeanne

, I get bp. Jeanne gets two tracks. One tonight and one when I die.

Oh, so you do want me roleblocked? As far as I am concerned, the only threat against me is you.

Fucking Jeanne. If I visit you, that restriction is lifted. No one can block you if I visit you.

[Learned Hand]

So let's have the mod confirm me as town and get on with it.

[Learned Hand]

Okay,

Not-Titus here (also known as Drixx). Remember yesterday when I talked about how we are G'car (*glares at Dramonic for a moment*)? I gave you guys everything you needed to realize we're town. It would be useful if people could get over their "OMG, Titus disagreed and didn't want to lynch Itle!" crap and we weren't sitting here talking about wasting a dream use to conftown us. I mean great... I'd much rather the scum shoot us than use up any town utility just to show that we're town ... but I'm pretty sure there's enough crumbing on our part to confirm what we said.

Also ... remember how I said we had agreed when to claim, when I was talking about our 2nd ability yesterday? Yeah ... today is when we agreed to claim, before the game even got going. So here's a full claim:

We are G'car, and our role is

Wise Empowerer

. Given the flavor that Dramonic cited with our role PM, what Dramonic gave us totally makes sense. It also makes complete sense for the character.

Our Passive is called "Understanding before hate" - For flavor reasons, we know that things aren't always what they appear. That's why we knew about the miller/godfather situation. Also totally fits the flavor of the character. (People who aren't Cerberus and therefore won't be spoiled in an ongoing watch through of the series with me can like go look into this character if they want to like ... drop the confirmation bias and evaluate what I'm saying and see if it makes sense. Show: Babylon 5. Character: G'Kar)

Our active ability is called "Guiding Words" - Paraphrased flavor is that we are super inspiring to other people so we can target someone and it ensures their action goes through.

Elbirn, apparently, decided we should draw a sheep for him last night. I'm pretty sure confirming our ability to stop someone being roleblocked would have made it super obvious we are town, and doing it to Jeanne made perfect sense because of the result she would have gotten. I'm a bit confused that we crumbed really well (We don't make a lot of the products you buy. We make a lot of the products you buy better.), and the entire case against us seems to be "You thought someone who was scum was town" ... well gee ... that has never ever happened to town before, has it? *SMH*

Here's a video from youtube. It's exactly what Titus was trying to crumb by saying we were BASF. Notice how it neatly describes what we do?




So ummm... you can dream to see our role card if you really think that's necessary, but I'm pretty sure from the jump in this game we have been obviously town and played that way. I didn't have a large personal opinion on Itle, but Titus did. Titus wanted to go after Cerb but followed my lead when I said wait. That's part of being in a hydra. So far as I can tell, the entire "case", inasmuch as I'll deign to refer to it as one, is that Titus didn't think Itle was scum.

Pro-tip: If you assume every townie who gets fooled by scum must be scum, you will lose. A lot. Probably nearly 100% of the time. Like seriously ... go re-read what we did right at the start of the game. Look at the crumbing. This idea that we're just thinking quick because we couldn't stop Itle from being lynched is absurd. We laid the groundwork for claiming our role (by necessity since we had info town needed and a useful ability to help cut through the conflicting morass of roles and abilities we expected to be in the game) super early ... way before Itle was even on anyone's radar.

Context and temporal order are important. So in descending order, it would be cool if:

1.) People just realized "Oh shit, he's right. They did come out of the gate super townie and they did use their role well, and they did crumb it, and the complete claim makes perfect sense... we should move on."
2.) If you can't bring yourself to do #1, I can maybe understand. Titus and I have both done well as scum in the past. I get the paranoia angle. Then do the dream thing and ream our role card. Obviously someone should come up with really good language. This is less optimal since it basically makes us also an IC and forces us to be killed, whereas for as long as scum thinks they might get us mislynched our power is available for use, but drawing scum fire is far better utility than being a mislynch.


I'm pretty sure if people objectively analyze things, there's no need to mislynch us. If you really have doubts that aren't just dressed up grudges from yesterday's heated posting, then do the dream thing and then you will know and perhaps be a little better at picking up on how we play for the next time. To me it's astonishingly absurd that people were seriously talking about just lynching us and ending the day within hours of the day starting. Like ... what?

~Drixx

P.S. - Jeann11 - calm down. Our role specifically ensures that the action of whomever we target goes through. We're the only people in the game who won't roleblock you by targeting you.

[Learned Hand]

But yeh, Firebringer tries his best to make me a day desperado since I'm not a player for which it's crucial to get desperado so if it fails no harm done

And then I shoot Titus

Anyway I need sleep so hopefully I'll have the shot by the morning and get this show on the road

This is scummy as fuck. If you can confirm we're town and force scum to kill us, why on earth would you want to waste a lynch or a vig shot on us?

~D

[Learned Hand]

Drixx you can post. I might say stupid shit if I post.

[Learned Hand]

Eh, since Cerb is making me wait, hello random MD chat! The reason this is a rule of thumb, by the by, is that it gives a town 1 mislynch for every scum lynch.

Before about 6 years or so ago (gosh!) it was common to have even number games. This gave the scum the victory if the town lynched 50/50. Once the trend started towards less town power, the inherent silliness of even numbers became apparent, and it moved to odd standard, giving the town a victory if you lynch 50/50. This is fair - from a statistical perspective, a town lynch is much easier to have, in a vacuum, than a scum lynch. It should also inform your actions - the best town players probably have an accuracy of around 50% - but this would be enough, before power roles, to guarantee a town victory. That should be reasonably terrifying when you consider it.

Of course power roles play a factor. Without any, 11:2 vanilla is considered "theoretically balanced", although the most data we have is from 10:2s (10:2 is hilariously scumsided, even beyond what you would expect from raw statistics). Thus you can consider in a 10:3 game that PRs are expected to kill one scum and save one town for the game to be balanced. This should inform your decisions on the strength of the town when you are judging claims.

Of course theme games are different. "The uncertainty" is probably a few negative PRs, because theme roles are weird, theme games are not as tightly balanced as normal games typically are, and you can expect a general confusion to reign. This was codified as "Stoofer's Law" - beyond a certain point, adding more PRs is negative utility to the town.

In role madness games you have to kind of try to ride that one out. It's going to occur - town power roles will be distrusted and mislynched

, town night results will be fucked with by other townies, etc.

Overall, if we brush aside the fog, I think this is actually fairly close to a Large Normal 13:4 with a lot of our modifiers and addendums not doing anything except contributing to the general noise level of the town. I'm not certain, yet, but it's a feeling I have. Which means, by the by, that this would be a 12(11):2:(1?) right now, which is horribly town sided. Not necessarily a reason to open Champaign on day 2 and start celebrating, but day 1 went about as well as it could possibly be expected for a day 1 to go. Remember, 11:2 would be balanced WITHOUT power roles, so... yeah.

Emphasis mine. Setting up for our flip are you?

[Learned Hand]

Quite the opposite. I think RP has come to realize we're town. He just gave an explanation ahead of time for exactly why we're going to be mislynched. At a certain point, power roles become negative utility for various reasons. In this case, combine Titus being stubborn (which is the only reason she refused to look at Itle once she made up her mind) with a role claim you guys won't believe until you see our role card ... and that's all it apparently takes for a mislynch.

I would say his point is very apt on straight on target.

~Drixx

[Learned Hand]

I think what bothers me the most about what's going on is that there is a way to dream our role card being posted, which would at least force scum to kill us. Once we gained conftown status, only exceptionally ballsy or really dumb scum would leave us alive for any longer than absolutely necessary. Shit on Titus all you want but I can link you to game after game where she figures shit out when nobody else can see it. Shit on me for being relatively new to the site if you want. Tell me I'm terrible. Then go read the 60,000 word hydra chat from the SU game and reassess your assumptions. Different from you doesn't mean I'm shit. It just means I approach things differently. Bottom line is we both do well as the game progresses, and anyone who has played with us knows it.

So why are we going with the anti-town plan that completely squanders getting any utility out of us when there's a better plan? You guys work through the language and ask Dram all the questions you want to make sure it's airtight, and get the dream to flip our role card. Then you can be like "Oh shit, we were wrong." without having wasted a town controlled shot or lynch to arrive at that conclusion. Then it's quite possible we can work the game out since we won't be spending time fighting to stay in the game to get to the part we're good at (and let's be honest: we all have ego, and we all play for the parts we like ... Titus and I both just happen to be stronger late than early. We're not gut players. I personally don't believe gut is a legit thing, as people commonly refer to it. That's another conversation though).

Like seriously. Dream our role card up and then let us do what we can. We may or may not be right, but you'll have the use of us and be able to trust our motives while we last, and scum will have to use up a limited resource (their night kill, in case that wasn't super obviously clear) to get rid of us. I expect we'll provide more utility than that, but at least allow us the utility of drawing a night kill because today's dream flipped our role card.

The problem with the give Dave a desperado thing is that if it doesn't work out as expected (Gee, I wonder if Dramonic will look for any loopholes to avoid the intent of the plan?) and he kills us, all you find out is we were telling the truth. You still have his claimed negative utility there that scum will never kill and force you to waste a lynch on. (Awful role, btw. I can't imagine a worse role than one the town has to waste a mislynch on, and miller is almost universally viewed as that. Dramonic invented the BASF version Miller role with this shit Dave has).

~D

[Learned Hand]

@LH: Town 'second lynch of the day' granter is an awesome role though, so if he gets another daykill I'm quite fine with that. Scum felt a burning need to kill the last one, and it was on a miller. Also

He's not just a miller though. He actually shortens the game for scum if they don't kill him, presuming his claim is true (and I see nothing that contradicts it). Didn't you make a strong argument for how absurdly negative utility his role is just recently?

~D

[Learned Hand]

Except I've already proven I know how to play as IC, and the dream that reveals our role card essentially makes me that. Just saying.

For a second, I had hope that Elbirn was re-evaluating his assumptions, but the last couple posts he swings back the other way.

~D

[Learned Hand]

Hey Fire, I think I have a solution that will make everyone happy

I dream that if LH is town, that Davesto gets a Desperado. If LH is scum, LH gets a desperado. :nod:

[Learned Hand]

Totally workable with changing the name on the Desperado if I'm town, but I saw that being suggested and no one wants to give desperados to my scumreads so

[Learned Hand]

@Zmuffin,

So like,

"I dream that if LH is town, they get a one use bulletproof vest and their pm is posted publicly but if they're scum, they die."

Totally down with that. That's my original idea but people are all like MURDER MURDER MURDER

[Learned Hand]

For fucks sake.

Dave gets desperado. Done. Titus is dragging this out because the result of that action is her corpse in thread.

Firebringer, submit the fucking action.

You scum or something?

Seriously, I'd be scum with my method too.

My method gets Jeanne tracker results (although she still doesn't understand that).

[Learned Hand]

Your method kills Davesto.

My method kills no one and Jeanne can catch scum.

Win: My method.

[Learned Hand]

Like, if you're town, you shouldn't give a fuck. You get conftown status, a nonvoter dies, everybody wins.

Wrong. I ain't scared of shit. I'm trying to be optimal here.

Once we confirm me as town, Jeanne can be healed AND get a result. If I'm dead, Jeanne cannot be healed and get a Desperado result.

If Firebringer dreams that I get a bulletproof vest, Jeanne can get two guaranteed investigations off. If we dream a Desperado to you, then Jeanne gets one guaranteed investigation.

[Learned Hand]

I'd rather town essentially get two kills today, with the first definitely hitting either me or scum, and potentially strongarming scum into killing me tonight if I survive, than us only getting the one lynch and letting a Tracker (the most powerful and useful role in a fucking Role Madness game, as we all know /s) get a couple of shots off

But that's just my thinking

Why are you so desperate to die?

You can die tomorrow. There's no point in killing a universally townread slot when we can keep using the dreams to confirm or dispel actually scummy people.

Living confirmed town is a hell of a lot better than dead confirmed town.

If we go the desperado route, I'd rather give it to someone who town actually thinks may be scum than you.

~Titus

[Learned Hand]

Still vesting me is a much better option so that Jeanne can confirm some scum or we can actually confirm or dispel Jeanne's results.

~Titus

[Learned Hand]

I'm not desperate to die, because the desperado shot will kill you.

Even if you think that's the case, wouldn't it be better to force the dilemma onto scum?

P.S. I'm not going to die.

You'd literally be throwing your life in the game away for your stupid tunnel vision. It's not like I'd be living if I was scum if we used my plan anyway. I'm not scum but damn you are so tunnel vision here you're making suboptimal moves regardless of your alignment.

[Learned Hand]

Yeah, there's a huge harm done.

Jeanne gets

zero

investigations for the rest of the game. Scum can just block her or kill her. That's also you lose me, my VCA, and my ability to unify town (once my reads are right).

There's next to no downside to delaying said test 1 day, confirming me as town and THEN doing your test.

[Learned Hand]

Did you miss the part where this is a sort of test?

Last time we tried to give someone a desperado shot, it failed. This is an attempt to successfully make a desperado rather than a vigilante.

If we want to force the dilemma onto scum, and then it turns out the wording wasn't right/the mod won't let us, we've just given a scum a day vigilante.
If we give it to me and accidentally give me a day vigilante rather than desperado,

no harm done.

Except for the part where this time, scum know in advance who we're shooting, so if firebringer isn't aligned with the town and LH is, he can deliberately give you a non desperado gun, guaranteeing a free town death.

Also, remember, still waiting till everyone has had a chance to check in to make sure nobody did claims any roleblocking.

LH: firebringer could just die tonight. :p that's a reason to not delay. Creating another likely town slot with a gun forces scum into anot her bad choice. I still disagree with shooting you, but that is a point that shouldn't be ignored.

Sure if Firebringer dies, anyone who claims jailkeeper gets roasted over a fucking fire for not jailing Firebringer.

Anyway, I need sleep.

l8r.

[Learned Hand]

There's next to no downside

A scum stays alive a day longer, meaning that anyone with an alibi for where they go tonight can't be cleared?

No. I'm not scum. So I don't see how any scum live a day longer, only more town corpses. Lay out how scum lives a day longer.

[Learned Hand]

If she isn't scum, the gun will show it and RP will be scum.

RP is actually a scumread of mine. If we are doing Desperado on me, then I would love RP getting the desperado gun.

I just don't think anyone will go for it as there's a chance he's just an asshole and so many people townread him.

[Learned Hand]

Your method kills Davesto.

My method kills no one and Jeanne can catch scum.

Win: My method.

We already agreed davsto had such a bad role his death is a win for the town.

You have nothing to offer us. Dayplay and night play condemns you.

I was never part of this agreement. Like ever. I am not wanting Dave to die bc he's town. Lylo can be moved up a day earlier.

I have nothing to offer scum. I am inclined to agree.

[Learned Hand]

If you're speaking the truth, then you and I can coordinate during the night.

How so? I thought you were neighbors with Cerb?

[Learned Hand]

RP is unlikely to be scum. D1 double bus, including their encryptor. Quite improbable.

Noted, but his actual play towards my slot has been so fucking scummy. He hasn't even listened to you or anyone else about the optimal way to confirm my alignment. He wants dead townies and he wants that choice rushed. He's telling people to think like evil people.

I get that I am the only one who will scumread him but from my poV he's acting really scummy today.

We can resolve my alignment without causing any dead bodies. A large PoE townblock does wonders for a game. Everything I try to do, he's yelling insulting and cutting my feet out from underneath me. Sure I can be wrong on reads, but he literally prevents me from figuring that out. I was desperate to understand why itepip was wagoned and I couldn't get it. Instead of helping, he made it impossible for me to understand and setup the very situation I am in now.

If I got a daycop, I would cop him.

[Learned Hand]

Fuck you. Dave you give final reads. Firebringer listed to fucking roleplay and rushed through something stupid?

I'm town so if you have a desperado gun, you need to give final reads.

[Learned Hand]

You stupid motherfuckers. I am pretty fucking irritated right now.

I actually want you to shoot firebringer now for not coordinating or confirming anything with the town.

Pedit: 100% confirmed desperado?

Ok, you can be town now.

[Learned Hand]

Pretty damn sure it's desperado, pmed mod to fully clarify but the PM looks sensible enough

PEdit good thought final reads for me will help too just in case

But please give yours too thanks <3

My reads are the same from yesterday since no one is talking to me but for Cerb's emotional parallel.

Roleplay is such fucking scum and I know he bussed. I voted for tn scum too but lol, who gives a shit.

Do your reads and shoot Dave.

[Learned Hand]

LH - If you are not scum, then why do Elbirn's actions conflict with yours?

They don't.

Elbrin claimed to redirect me to himself.

[Learned Hand]

There is no conflict! !!!

Fucking people need to learn to read.
Elbirn redirects someone and changes their action into painting him a picture. That person is informed that they were redirected to him, and told what they did.
Jeanne saw LH visit Elbirn.

Like seriously, they might be scum, but you fuckers have the wrong reasons for believing so.

Yes, this is how I feel in like 90% of my town games.
I already pulled my hair out earlier though.

Is it any reason I think obvtown are bussing scum due to bring suboptimal here?

[Learned Hand]

Sorry roleplay.

I am conftown.

VOTE: Roleplay

You just cost us Dave. Explain yourself.

[Learned Hand]

Yep. Totally makes great sense what just happened. Dreaming our role card flip confirming us being honest was totally sub-optimal compared to what happened instead.

*SMH*

If you guys let RP ram our mislynch down your throats, the only thing I can do is mock you, and I shall.

~D

[Learned Hand]

You don't get it RP. I'd like to re-read parts of the thread and try to actually apply what I'm good at (evaluating people's narrative and looking for scum since scum narratives change without any logical/rational reason). Instead, you're constantly banging a drum trying to drive our mislynch because Titus had a bad read on someone. That's all you've got. I'm sorry if you think I'm a bully, but I think anyone who assumes someone is scum because they have a bad read is not thinking straight or playing well.

I don't like playing on the defensive. I'm irritated because we gave a dream suggestion that would have put things to rest and let Titus and I both do what we do. Like it or not, she does crazy good shit with VCA. I don't even believe in VCA but I can go look at games where she discerns scum using it so I don't understand it but it works. I dump time and logic into solving the game like that. Instead of knowing for sure we're town and forcing the scum team to kill us or let conftown live ... a less optimal play was made and I have yet to see a decent reason for it.

~D

[Learned Hand]

VOTE: EAP

Let's lynch the guilty and move the fuck on.

Then we can have this debate tomorrow. Yippe. So excited.

Sarcasm.

~Titus

[Learned Hand]

LH, RP, consider each other conftown for the rest of the day. And EAP as super likely scum. Go find out who the other scum is.

Remember, I said to NOT just pile on votes. We have information here. Let's use it and the time in the day to find the last scum, instead of having this argument about LH vs RP tomorrow with no more information than we have right now.

Pedit: cuz it's irrelevant, unless someone has a reflexive roleblock they didn't claim. If the other person is scum, I don't want them to be able to create a claim (like I just did) that exonerated EAP.

I want nothing to do with him. He's not town FMPOV. I won't pretend he's town. You can ask me to stop pushing him for today but I never ever will pretend Roleplay is town. Like ever.

~Titus

[Learned Hand]

Meh, fuck it. I'm sick of waiting.

Unless someone roleblocked EAP, he is 100% scum.

I used a power on him which would have made him conftown to a player of my choice, and I confirmed that this alignment reveal, which would come in the form of a message from the moderator, would only happen if he were town.

Basically, I caused him to friendly neighbor someone, who I won't reveal right now, and confirmed that if he were scum, he would not be able to friendly neighbor someone, because scum using a friendly neighbor to become mod confirmed town to someone is bastard.

I was asking if anyone received a message because if anyone had, I could pursue that line of inquiry. If EAP were town and my power worked, they would have also realized something occurred last night.

Since nobody received a message, and in particular, since EAP did not receive a message, they are scum, UNLESS they were roleblocked by someone. So, there is a nonzero chance that scum chose to roleblock him and are thus not telling us, but I find it unlikely that scum would choose to use an actual roleblock on EAP unless they were intending to kill zmuffin.

Note, this does not mean you should just throw all your votes onto him. We still have another scum to find if this result is correct and he was not roleblocked last night, so let's take advantage of the time we have.

I will not be revealing anything more about my role other than what I have said here.

This role sounds awfully CC like to Firebringer? I'm pretty sure you're town, so if Roleplay isn't the last scum, Firebringer might be.

Of course, reading from tea leaves here.

[Learned Hand]

Wait, weren't we neighbours from the start, so why give him neighbour ability again?

Yes. Friendly neighbor role is something I hate. Like literally detest.

It's not a neighbor. It just messages people.

[Learned Hand]

LH: you people are wildly exaggerating the claimed strength of my role.

Pedit: Yes, I know my own power went through zmuffin.

You kinda just made it seem like you could do whatever you wanted.

Why not just do the friendly neighbor thing for my slot since we all knew what was coming today?

~Titus

[Learned Hand]

CERBERUS

VERIFY IT IS A FUCKING LIE

OR EXPLAIN WHY IT'S NOT

OR I AM MOVING MY VOTE BACK AND IGNORING YOUR HYPNOTOAD POWERS. I HATE NIGHT POWERS

This is why I absolutely think Roleplay is scum here.

I'm not going to push to lynch him on your request Cerb because you hard towned to me and we have a guilty, but this persona feels fake as shit.

Btw, we're visiting Jeanne. Pretty obvious here.

~Titus

[Learned Hand]

@Jeanne, Please track me. You should get that we visited you tonight.

@Doctor, Please heal Jeanne.

@3dice, See fifty post edits when I try to have a reasonable conversation because RP knows I'll be confirmed tonight..... or after my flip he and Elbrin will be confirmed scum. I'll try to talk with you, but I really can't in this environment.

[Learned Hand]

@Jeanne, Please track me. You should get that we visited you tonight.

@Doctor, Please heal Jeanne.

@3dice, See fifty post edits when I try to have a reasonable conversation because RP knows I'll be confirmed tonight..... or after my flip he and Elbrin will be confirmed scum. I'll try to talk with you, but I really can't in this environment.

That's fair, but why shouldn't a doctor heal shiro?

It proves that Jeanne was given the ability to act, through any roleblock scum may do. It proves my role as honest if Jeanne gets that result. :nod:

[Learned Hand]

Look Shiro might have a role with a doctor. If the game continues after tomorrow's lynch, then the doctor heals Shiro.

[Learned Hand]

No, he just doesn't view the rest of your case as important. *shrug* you have displayed an unreasoning bias against his slot/partner. I don't blame him for not engaging with you. I certainly wouldn't if I were him.

LH, I wouldn't bother with that. If we lynch scum in EAP, then yes that turns jeanne into a cop. I'm still not sure it's optimal to dump all our efforts into protecting her. It might be though. More thought is required.

If Jeanne's ability is a cop, then her tracking me would confirm me as town given the mod said scum can't act and kill. :nod: That or scum deliberately forgo their kill.

Either way is a win for town.

~Titus

[Learned Hand]

I am not a cop.

With only one scum left, you effectively would be a cop. Scum cannot act with their abilities and nightkill according to dramonic. So if there's a night kill and you track someone to a place

other than the dead body

, then that player is confirmed town.

You're not literally a cop, but your role would effectively become one.

~Titus

[Learned Hand]

Well, that is true.

Ok, good. Now do you see why I've put so much effort into exactly how I was cleared to get you the most investigations possible? :nod:

Right now, you have tomorrow (doctor will heal you, I will visit you). I was hoping to buy you two days, but the game may resolve by then given the large town block.

We have the guilty on RP.

I just want to hammer EAP, end the day and pray to God that either myself or RP dies. We might die given scum can't afford so many confirmed townies running around.

~Titus

[Learned Hand]

Well, that is true.

Ok, good. Now do you see why I've put so much effort into exactly how I was cleared to get you the most investigations possible? :nod:

Right now, you have tomorrow (doctor will heal you, I will visit you). I was hoping to buy you two days, but the game may resolve by then given the large town block.

We have the guilty on RP.

I just want to hammer EAP, end the day and pray to God that either myself or RP dies. We might die given scum can't afford so many confirmed townies running around.

~Titus

pedit We have the guilty on EAP.

Boy do I wish we had a guilty on RP.

[Learned Hand]

@LH There are better targets for your power, doubly so since majority of members thinks I am incompetent or something.

You have your derp moments. You're newer.

There is no better target for my power I see. I plan on targeting you, and I request you target me. Doc targets you. We confirm me as town or force scum to no kill.

I don't see how targeting anyone else is better.

~Titus

[Learned Hand]

Well, I have my own plan on who to track.

Please discuss this with Cerb.

At least you still agree doctor on you, and I visit you right?

I really don't get why you'd want to deviate here.

[Learned Hand]

And like, you are totally relying on her for that. What if last scum is strongman or soemthing? It is a possibility no ?

Sure anything is possible. We should have confirmed me as town today via Firebringer's dream.

If the last scum is a strongman, then Jeanne will die and the doctor will tell us. We'll be no further off than yesterday, but we won't be in a bruhahah of anyone being framed and we can take that information.

If there is a strongman, there becomes zero reason not to heal you Shiro.

Also, we can then have Firebringer give me a desperado if Jeanne is dead since I see no use for my role other than to help Jeanne.

[Learned Hand]

And I want to also add that. What if this game has 5 scum? Like say we lycnh EAP he is scum. You are assuming 4 team scum to be clear. What if it is 5?

Your arguemnt is flawedTitus

5 scum in a 16 player game when scum have a ninja godfather encryptor thing? Really?

[Learned Hand]

Also, what if there is no doctor?

If there is no doctor, then Shiro is scum for making up a doctor where one doesn't exist.

If you die and no one claims doctor, we can lynch Shiro. :nod:

[Learned Hand]

I am not a cop.

With only one scum left

, you effectively would be a cop. Scum cannot act with their abilities and nightkill according to dramonic. So if there's a night kill and you track someone to a place

other than the dead body

, then that player is confirmed town.

You're not literally a cop, but your role would effectively become one.

~Titus

Titus, tell me what this means ASAP.

Basically, I'm following Cerb's assumption there's one scum left and it fits with gamesize.

~Titus

[Learned Hand]

Also, what if there is no doctor?

If there is no doctor, then Shiro is scum for making up a doctor where one doesn't exist.

If you die and no one claims doctor, we can lynch Shiro. :nod:

What the hell ? I didn't lie about anything. If there isn't a doctor then my way to salvation is highly misleading >.>

I don't think you did either. :nod:

Jeanne is throwing out moonlogic and I'm telling her step by step what would happen in the scenarios. We're working through it. I believe there is a doctor. (hugs)

[Learned Hand]

I am not a cop.

With only one scum left

, you effectively would be a cop. Scum cannot act with their abilities and nightkill according to dramonic. So if there's a night kill and you track someone to a place

other than the dead body

, then that player is confirmed town.

You're not literally a cop, but your role would effectively become one.

~Titus

Titus, tell me what this means ASAP.

Basically, I'm following Cerb's assumption there's one scum left and it fits with gamesize.

~Titus

Where does cerb make this assumption, and why is it correct to assume that it is 14 vs 3?

Wrong assumption. We're presuming EAP scum. We're presuming that it's 13 v 4. :nod:

I'll get the posts.

[Learned Hand]

LH, RP, consider each other conftown for the rest of the day. And EAP as super likely scum. Go find out who the other scum is.

Remember, I said to NOT just pile on votes. We have information here. Let's use it and the time in the day to find the last scum, instead of having this argument about LH vs RP tomorrow with no more information than we have right now.

Pedit: cuz it's irrelevant, unless someone has a reflexive roleblock they didn't claim. If the other person is scum, I don't want them to be able to create a claim (like I just did) that exonerated EAP.

Ignoring confirmation bias is not lying. Stop it RP. I explained to you exactly how I, the person who is most qualified to weigh in on anything he does, would view that post. Now shut the fuck up. You made your point, if you're fucking wrong we still have one more scum to find, stop being fucking useless today..

Pedit: I agree you guys shouldn't trust me or anyone else. Hell, given the scope of the powers you've somehow read into what I claimed happened last night, you should be very suspicious if I live to lylo.

There you go. It's basically the standard assumption size to assume four scum.

[Learned Hand]

3dice, I believe it is improbable that EAP is not scum, not just because of my result, but also because I expected to find scum in our neighborhood, and Jeanne seemed unlkely to be it.

So, the situation titus is describing is what to do in a 4v13, where EAP flips scum today.

Wait, EAP was in your neighborhood? :S

[Learned Hand]

I am not a cop.

With only one scum left

, you effectively would be a cop. Scum cannot act with their abilities and nightkill according to dramonic. So if there's a night kill and you track someone to a place

other than the dead body

, then that player is confirmed town.

You're not literally a cop, but your role would effectively become one.

~Titus

Titus, tell me what this means ASAP.

Basically, I'm following Cerb's assumption there's one scum left and it fits with gamesize.

~Titus

Where does cerb make this assumption, and why is it correct to assume that it is 14 vs 3?

Wrong assumption. We're presuming EAP scum. We're presuming that it's 13 v 4. :nod:

I'll get the posts.

This contradicts what you said earlier in the game about having information about multiple godfathers/millers implying tracker.

P:Edit - Yeah I understand what ya mean cerb.

No it does not. We know there's at least one miller and at least one godfather.

[Learned Hand]

We have fucking been over this. It's poor fucking wording by Drixx. Ffs.

At one of two separate things is multiple.

[Learned Hand]

3dice, I believe it is improbable that EAP is not scum, not just because of my result, but also because I expected to find scum in our neighborhood, and Jeanne seemed unlkely to be it.

So, the situation titus is describing is what to do in a 4v13, where EAP flips scum today.

Wait, EAP was in your neighborhood? :S

Yes. Remember when you asked me why we didn't just do the neighbor thing to you? That's part of why. Masonry creation ftw. Also I found you were far more likely to be blocked than him.

3dice what the hell are you talking about? You are not making sense.

*sigh*

Ok. I thought you two were hooded alone. That made me think masons unlikely and suggested you were scumier since jeanne was town.

[Learned Hand]

@Jeanne, Yes. The lack of knowledge made Cerb look scummier.

~Titus

[Learned Hand]

Alright I've checked back and remembered what you are talking about LH. Have you ruled out multiball or is this something you're still considering? I remember someone said "multiball would be really miserable", and I thought "hey, even though they are joking they are kind of right"

Ruled out, no. But I find it highly improbable. Where is the second kill?

[Learned Hand]

Alright I've checked back and remembered what you are talking about LH. Have you ruled out multiball or is this something you're still considering? I remember someone said "multiball would be really miserable", and I thought "hey, even though they are joking they are kind of right"

Ruled out, no. But I find it highly improbable. Where is the second kill?

I'm not 100% sure. Could be a scum doc or bulletproof or something, but that's if this is multiball, which my gut is telling me it could be.

If it is, then can we cross that bridge tomorrow? For all we know scum can have multiple godfathers on the same team. Particularly if there's no Cops.

~Titus

[Learned Hand]

I am out too.

[Learned Hand]

Elbrin or mass flop

[Learned Hand]

VOTE: Roleplay

Noise factor 1357985478 kicked in.

Can we please murder RP now?

*bats eyelashes*

That's because Roleplay ordered a truckload of spam, slipped in it, and thinks spewing it is cool.

[Learned Hand]

Mass claim is bad. Like really fucking bad here. Tomorrow, let's do it.

If I am wrong in trusting EAP, lynching EAP is the best move for me personally. Either a) I will act as a universal doctor or b) Jeanne will track me to visiting her and get a result off.

So I either become confirmed fucking town or universal doctor heal. I am ok with that if EAP is group scum.

I just don't happen to think he is and Roleplay is.

This scenario makes me want to intend to hammer because believing I am wrong is the best thing for my own game. I just don't think I am.

*shrug* I just am not like extremely confident.

[Learned Hand]

If more than one mafia remains, even if I track one of them, the other member can send in the kill, thus useless.

This is absolutely wrong.

There are many things you can do with your role. I am going to mention them to you, but you should do more detailed planning in your hood with Cerb.

1) Get evidence of alignment by determining who someone visited (notice I say evidence not confirmation). Evidence can sometimes function as confirmation given context.

2) Use it to draw information from people. Cerb can discuss this in hood.

3) Test relationships between people. Again in the hood.

Don't think that you're useless because you can't see a purpose to your role. Take a step back. Try a new perspective. This is what I say when every town has a purpose and I generally hate policy lynches unless they stop me from playing the game.

Day by day, we get more information. You don't have to solve the game all at once. Sometimes it happens. Sometimes we have off games. Most are in the middle. :nod: Half of the game is getting town to see their purpose.

~Titus

[Learned Hand]

Mass claim is bad. Like really fucking bad here. Tomorrow, let's do it.

If I am wrong in trusting EAP, lynching EAP is the best move for me personally. Either

a) I will act as a universal doctor

or b) Jeanne will track me to visiting her and get a result off.

So I either become confirmed fucking town or universal doctor heal. I am ok with that if EAP is group scum.

I just don't happen to think he is and Roleplay is.

This scenario makes me want to intend to hammer because believing I am wrong is the best thing for my own game. I just don't think I am.

*shrug* I just am not like extremely confident.

What? I know you're not making an outright claim of that, you're inferring some sequence of events will occur that will make you functionally that, right? Can you elaborate, because that does not follow.

If I am wrong and EAP is group scum...

We suppose 4 group scum.
EAP dead makes 3 group scum.

I will visit jeanne, forcing her track to go through. Her track on me will result in Lh visits Jeanne.
Scum must either nightkill jeanne, no kill anyone or face me being confirmed town.

If scum try to nightkill Jeanne, they run the high risk of doctor. Thus leading us into global heal territory.
Global heal territory. Yippie no one died.

If Jeanne gets a result and I visit Jeanne, then I am alibied and thus could not do the night kill.

[Learned Hand]

@roleplay,

Supposing you're town for a moment. You're claiming communist miller. (Hilariously Unbalanced 2 reference). We're on Day 3. If there was a delayed kill by one night, we would have seen it.

You're throwing out "could haves" based on role PMs that have no verification in thread. That's the very definition of confbiased moonlogic.

If evidence of that delayed kill appears, then we can doubt my status as conftown, not before.

Now, try to look at this from my perspective.
I know I am town that enables Jeanne's ability.
I find a setup that confirms this to be true.
When the facts would otherwise confirm me as town, RP claims that there's a mysterious delayed killer that has zero support in thread.

So yeah, I think you're scum. I Am willing to desperado you if that's what the group wants. I just think it's foolish and stupid when we could give you the desperado to shoot me if there were doubts. We'd also get confirmation about this mysterious 3rd party killer.

[Learned Hand]

Elbrin's last post convinced me I am wrong about EAP being survivor. He wouldn't ask for cop check if said cop check would not come back town or scum more likely than not. That makes a whopping zero sense. EAP is more likely that not scum.

UNVOTE: RP[/vote]

I am willing to hammer in case of supersaint shenanigans. Or not. Whatever.

[Learned Hand]

UNVOTE: RP

You have my vote on FB. fB has done like zero scumhunting.

[Learned Hand]

We targeted Jeanne to ensure her action worked. We received no messages from the night.

[Learned Hand]

#3782 by Drixx. Sorry.

[Learned Hand]

@Roleplay25, You got high at noon. Cool.

@Cerebus, MassFlop or Roleplay?

[Learned Hand]

Oh and I don't alt hunt so *farts*

[Learned Hand]

@Roleplay25, You got high at noon. Cool.

@Cerebus, MassFlop or Roleplay?

For what? Which one is a better lynch today? Mass Flop I believe. I need to read a shitload of the game again. 3p flip doesn't help us much.

It confirms you're right about your role and Roleplay is a useless noise machine at best.

VOTE: Mass Flop

[Learned Hand]

We should give one to Roleplay.

[Learned Hand]

Stopping this kind of nonsense is what Desperadoes were meant for.

[Learned Hand]

RP, don't make me regret what I've done.

NO. You both need to stop being fucking stupid. STOP IT. No desperado should go to LH or RP. If you're going ot give one to someone, give it to fucking 3dice or elbirn. Seriously.

Great, if RP can stop posting LH needs to die for 24 hours, then whatever. I seriously cannot fucking think in this mess.

[Learned Hand]

Why 3dice or Elbrin?

[Learned Hand]

Klingon, you know I read people by how they interact.

Roleplay/insane GreyIce is making that impossible. Not going to pretend like I can do one. I know my facts are off somewhere but nothing I can do.

[Learned Hand]

You translated such a good case.

Do you want Drixx and I to merge first or be separate lists, my queen.

This is going to be interesting. I want to see what a Zklingon lead town looks like.

[Learned Hand]

We don't have the mislynches to spare you death tunneling us RP. Just talk to me and not Titus. I'll pick this up in the Hydra when the browser I use for the hydra stops freezing on me. This is not an ego post.

Titus responds even less well than I do to people who seem impossible to reason with. So just talk to me because seriously you are driving us to a loss with your insistence on death tunneling us. We could have been cleared yesterday if people had been willing to ask Dram questions and airtight the wording for the lucid dream to clear us. Worst case (for us) that would have drawn night fire to us, which is significantly more utility than we have now. As of right now, we're a free smokescreen for scum because you and Titus keep getting into squabbles.


P-Edit: Seriously guys ... we're town. Stop with the foolish shit. How about you all decide how to dream up confirming us. That forces scum to either live with us (and while RP clearly doesn't have even a modicum of respect for me or Titus, some of the rest of you have seen us at our best and know better) or kill us. It also immediately removes the smokescreen that somehow has conveniently been going and going. It also helps us have a better chance to win ... because with Dave's terrible role, there aren't spare lynches lying around because RP is unable to read me or Titus.

Seriously, get the parameters of the dream worked out. Ask questions and make sure it will work. I'm not looking to lose this game because one person is too proud to admit he's confbiasing and other people just sheep because they are sick of it day after day. RP is objectively playing terribly when it comes to us. Period. Someone figure out how to dream up a way to show him he's wrong so another day doesn't go by where scum get to hide behind him ranting at us and trying to drive a mislynch on us.

Inevitably if he manages to get you all to lemming and mislynch us, then people are going to go back and look at things and realized he didn't really have any real reason to push us and could easily have let an existing mechanic clarify our status ... that's going to make him look scummy in hindsight... and if he's actually town then you combine that with Dave's role and things aren't looking good for the home team.

And would town!Titus 100% defend and try to keep from being lynched one of her town reads?

You know she would. You just basically convinced me you're scum. Terrible post Cerberus. You've been in games as a hydra with me where Titus 100% went to bad for a town read. You know that's exactly what Titus does. Asking a question you know the answer to is you trying to appear to be engaged in analyzing things, but you forgot I am here and know you.

@Titus - You may feel free to VCA (if you can) and put a case against Cerb now. #3846 is a scum post. Please pick these up in the hydra. The browser I've got the login saved to keeps freezing on me.

[Learned Hand]

Congratulations, you just painted a post that was defending you as a scum post.

Cerberus, now are you convinced?

So if he's scum white knighting we're not supposed to be concerned?

[Learned Hand]

Congratulations, you just painted a post that was defending you as a scum post.

Cerberus, now are you convinced?

I call it how I see it. Cerberus knows Titus very well because he and I have played with her basically nearly continuously for the past year. There's no way he would have to ask that question. Simple as that. I'm off to sleep.

[Learned Hand]

But you just painted it as a post attacking you.

Don't backtrack on why you said it's scummy.

PEdit He was asking that question to me

Irrelevant. A town!Cerberus doesn't phrase that as a question. He would declare that Titus does defend her town reads. One needs only go look at Titus games to see that she is relentless in going after scum reads and tireless in defending town reads. Shit ... go look at We Didn't Playtest This where she was sure I was scum and pursued me for like 2 real life months, only for me to be cop cleared late. Cerberus doesn't have to ask a question. He knows Titus and would declare as a statement that she does indeed defend her town reads.

As I said ... asking it as a question is an attempt to appear to be trying to "figure out" things. Problem is, he's scum and knows we're town so it's narrative, and he got caught.

I really do need to sleep though. I have to be up in 5 hours.

Drixx let's go to bed.

[Learned Hand]

"I dream LH's win condition is unquestionably revealed to all and they live to tell the tale."

Wham. Bam. Thank you.

Fire, r u scum? Take my dream. Sort me yo!

[Learned Hand]

This is a fucking distraction scum are using to hide. Mod confirm me.

You should have done this yesterday. If I am not mod confirmed in the next 24 hours, I am going to have two people who need to die.

[Learned Hand]

We were "quite a bit up" on scum like 2 days ago.

You're not getting a girlfriend diamond we've been over this

He is tomorrow if I get confirmed as town.
Roleplay will stfu about me or be lynched.
Cerberus can stop his wn on our slot so Drixx and I can settle on a read there.
Then I readwall for Grandma so she can direct the town.

Roleplay, you want to claim 3p when Lh dies but you cannot murder me? Like lyncher?

[Learned Hand]

I feel like I was just bullied into this action.

Yeah FB shot us.

Wish he would have claimed because it depends on logic.

[Learned Hand]

When I have a town pm, town iq goes down ten points. I wish I was scum.

[Learned Hand]

Yep. Having Firebringer make a desperado gun and shoot us was totally worth it. Having us publicly revealed as conftown so scum had to shoot us would totally

not

have been a better idea.

*SMH*

When I have a town role pm, town iq drops by ten points. There's a reason I am controlling.

[Learned Hand]

Rp, you simply don't understand how I play. The evidence is far stronger that zmuffin waa town than anyone else, except for KC and yourself. As far as I'm concerned, we currently have 4 probable-conftown: LH, RP, KC, and Zmuffin.

Why RP in that list?

[Learned Hand]

@Klingon, I understand. I have no additional information in my role pm. Very good play of you to try and get me involved. I read best by looking at other people and seeing how they interact with each other and jumping in when I have thoughts or want to steer.

So trust me that I am watching. Game health does not need to center on me.

We should both have reads lists with reasons before hammer.

[Learned Hand]

because I got your identity wrong and you have been playing to my town read on their meta >_>

Mass flop.

Seriously, we can fill the entire pages with friendly conversation, but we're not the ones who need to be talking. I think I shall

retreat to the QT

until I feel like poking out.

waaaat?

[Learned Hand]

...read my answer to your question LH. Try to stay on top of the game please. It's getting really old to have to tell people thinks they should already know because they were JUST discussed.

Which post? I hardly remember anything, hence why I didn't vote roleplay...

[Learned Hand]

so how does a neighbor make them town?

[Learned Hand]

So, EAPS clear on zmuffin is null. Cool. Don't particularly mind lynching him then. I feel like I could probably solve the game at this point if I had the time to dive into the absurd amount of content so far.

In the interests of not shitting the thread further than it already is, I'm going to just say to any townies that are staying silent because they assume confirmed town will just decide everything - I have no particular desire to be guided by someone just because they're town. They also may be extremely unbelievably wrong. Or not reading the game. I really want to work with y'all.

The irony in this post is staggering.

~D

[Learned Hand]

VOTE: Mass Flop

[Learned Hand]

Can we not end the day so soon? I want to sync up with Drixx and have the three of us do read walls.

Also, my gif vanished so for the record I don't trust 3dice's claim but I do trust that Mass Flop is scum as 3dice would be scumclaiming if Mass Flop was town.

[Learned Hand]

Hey also it would have been awesome had LH had a desperado. Then they could desperado Mass Flop. See how cool that would have been?

Guns are good, Cerberus, guns are good.

I actually agree that this would have been more optimal than what Firebringer did ... but he jumped the gun (pun intended) on things every time. There was a way to confirm us as town without potentially killing town.

Now, RP, that you can't possibly be stuck in a confbias death tunnel, can we have a little space to try and evaluate the game and bring our particular talents to bear? Titus and I are both objectively very good in the late game. We don't want to end today without getting together and working through things. Even though it looks like we should have this win easily, now that we don't have to constantly defend ourselves from you, we want to do everything we can to ensure the town win.

I would have spoken up for the third party claim yesterday, because it was so obviously genuine it hurt, and it's awesome to see a 3rd party role that has positive utility. That may be the first third party role I've ever seen that shouldn't be a policy lynch for town. I hope to see more of that, because being able to come up with compelling and interesting 3rd party roles allows for a fresh take where 3rd party isn't automatically assumed to be bad for town. 3rd party roles that aren't one dimensional will mean a game with more depth. So bravo to Dram for coming up with it, and I just wish I'd had the guts to stand up and try and stop it yesterday.

Anyway ... what's done is done. Please don't end the day until Titus and I get together and do our thing. We should be able to produce a salient and accurate evaluation, especially with such a large town block to PoE with. It's the least we can do since we were a smokescreen for scum to hide behind for a long time.

Also ... is your clear on RP infallible Cerberus? Since we know by role of at least one each (aka multiple total) of godfather(s) and miller(s), the tradition cop clear that returns evil/innocent or whatever doesn't actually clear him. Would godfather interfere with your clear method? Can you explain in detail?

@RP - Just don't. I'm not going to make any assumptions that could cost town the game. If you're legit town and not a godfather, then you shouldn't be bothered by me being cautious and making sure I have all the info. I learned the hard way that one wrong assumption (and a super reasonable one at that) can turn a nearly guaranteed town win into a scum win. I won't ever make that mistake again.

~Drixx

[Learned Hand]

Ok, we need the toxicity down 3 thousand notches?

Hey RP, why you no claim d2 when I was getting sent to the gallows?

[Learned Hand]

As opposed to the whole, gee my role matches the fakeclaiming scum when LH wanted any reason to get on the wagon.

Can you please keep your elitism to one post at a time?

[Learned Hand]

Can you please replace out so we can have someone who isn't worthless as confirmed town.

Talking to yourself?

Seriously?

Can you just let me investigate 3dice before you rush Mass Flop to the gallows?

[Learned Hand]

Does the target of the steal lose the ability to use their power? Do you "vanillaize" them? Do yo uhave unlimited uses of it? Do you only have the ability to use it on the night after you steal? Can you steal more than once?

WHY WOULDN'T YOU STEAL THE DREAMER OF QUESTIONABLE ALIGNMENTS POWER???

Because everyone except Harry and Lloyd can see it's an obvious fakeclaim?

What is the point of this post? Chastize me for actually scumhunting?

Look, if you can't play without being a dick, there's a PM button. Ask the mod to sub out, because I'm not going anywhere.

[Learned Hand]

Can you please replace out so we can have someone who isn't worthless as confirmed town.

Talking to yourself?

Seriously?

Can you just let me investigate 3dice before you rush Mass Flop to the gallows?

Investigate 3dice?

What are the odds that scum are given a fakeclaim that exactly matches a town role?

That's just ridiculous.

[Learned Hand]

12 hours since the last post. LH, how are you guys doing on that reads list?

We spoke last night for about three hours. Titus is pretty irritated by how RP refused to re-evaluate us logically and if she had her way we would be saying nothing at all. She doesn't want to reward him for his behavior. I feel like since we got confirmed at the cost of the town Lucid Dreamer, we have an obligation to evaluate the game and slots still in question. I've asked her to do her VCA given that we have actual confirmed town which makes it easier to do.

I'm combing through the people in the lynch pool (and to be very honest, you as well) and using my approach, which you are familiar with. It takes time, as you know. I'm hoping to have at least a preliminary post up from my head of the hydra sometime in the next 12 hours with thoughts on each player alive. Hopefully Titus agrees with me that since it cost the town Lucid Dreamer to confirm us and stop our mislynch, we are especially obligated to help as much as possible. Now that we aren't a viable mislynch for scum, we are almost certainly going to be a priority NK, both for what we can do and because both of us have demonstrated the ability to solve games in the mid and late game.

Maybe you could encourage her by asking nicely. It would be awesome if you could get RP to stop shit talking us now that we're confirmed town. You were able to correctly read us, so you are in a position to explain to him why the problem with his death tunneling us was him and not us. Since he has been proven wrong he's been on a campaign of calling us out for terrible play and blaming us for his bad read, confbias and death tunneling on us. I'm hoping you can show him his error and get him to apologize to Titus. You and I both know that Titus doing her VCA work takes time, and it will help ensure victory for the town.

I know you don't get why people respond this way in this kind of situation, but just help me out here. Not everyone is able to separate feelings and rational thought the way you (and to a lesser extent I) do. Titus currently sees no point in investing the hours of work when RP continues to attack us personally instead of admitting his was wrong and trying to work together with us.

~Drixx

[Learned Hand]

Well then, guess what, you're not getting that.

In what universe do you think it's ok to call someone you're playing a game with a "shit human being"? I mean really. You can think I'm a bully, terrible and toxic player who never learns blah blah blah.

God made policy lynches. They happen. Cerebus still isn't 100% town in our books. Nor 3dice. Just because someone whiteknights our slot doesn't mean we should kiss their ass.

I couldn't find your case in the mounds of you yelling about my defects as a human being. I never ignore anything deliberately. It's not fucking lazy to not want to read through oodles about how you're terrible in order to play a game to find the one hypothetical case that might exist. Doubly so given you were pushing it and figured I was shit anyway.

Pretty sure calling me a shit human being is against site rules too.

[Learned Hand]

I am trying to play. Seeing 20 posts about how I am shit as a person or a terrorist or anything else makes it impossible, so I backed off to read people but another guilty makes that unlikely and every time I try to investigate it, you start bullying me.

[Learned Hand]

Ok.

Great.

Cerb, answer me this. If 3dice's cop is legit? Why didn't he out it yesterday? What kind of mod gives scum a fakeclaim that mirrors a townrole exactly?

[Learned Hand]

Tangential.

The mod isn't going to give a player a fakeclaim when using said fakeclaim would get them lynched. Bastard or no, that's just terrible modding by lying to players. Dramonic or no, that's just not likely to happen. Stating that Dramonic doesn't give fakeclaims makes it all the more likely 3dice is scum and borrowing what was previously made up for a claim.

[Learned Hand]

My theory is they are both scum or that this is town faking an accurate guilty.

I am playing the same game as you. There are some things though that I just feel Dramonic wouldn't do. Doubly so given Dramonic doesn't do fakeclaims.

[Learned Hand]

Can you please replace out so we can have someone who isn't worthless as confirmed town.

Hmm, there's a rather high probability that that hydra is the most literate thing on this site. Just....fyi.

I'm going to sleep. I'll try to actually read the pertinent isos tomorrow.

I have cans of of tuna with more skill in reading comprehension.

Oh go soak your head, you

borderline illiterate assclown.

Apparently the above quotes are "doing jack shit" and were not at all personal attacks leveled at our slot.

Yo Drixx, I was doing jack shit, and you walked in here and started shit with me. How about you apologize for that?

I said before that I think Titus is a bully and a toxic player, a narcissist who is in love with nothing so much as the sound of her own voice, and who twists things in a big fucking circle until she's perfect and it's everyone else's fault they dislike her. I stand by every single word. Frankly the fact that you're town means your behavior is that much worse. You weren't opportunistically jumping on the Jeanne vote train, to get a free mislynch, you were honestly willing to lynch someone because "they were noisy". You weren't scum who wanted an out on the TN thing, you legitimately wanted to shoot Cerberus because he's hard to read. You didn't ignore my case on Itle because it was a good case and you knew it, you just didn't bother to fucking read and resorted to yelling, because that's the amount of respect you have for other people's opinions. You didn't read anything I wrote yesterday not because you were scum and had no legitimate answers, you were just too fucking lazy. You didn't threaten me with moderator action and to go fetch the fucking site mods because I was wrecking your team, you just think anyone disagreeing with you and not being beaten down by your harangues should be punished by the moderators.

Both of you are shit mafia players and shit human beings.

If that makes it impossible to read the thread, so what?

@Dramonic - This guy has consistently clearly crossed the line. At this point there are dozens of unprovoked examples of him going over the line. I've gone out of my way to be patient and not get into it with him. Please do your job. His behavior warrants at the very least a temporary site ban. The player who was permanently banned from the site due to his behavior in SMITE was more pleasant than RP has been in this game.

I won't be posting again until Dramonic takes action that is, quite frankly, very long overdue.

I wanted there to be no doubt which head made the quoted post.

~D

[Learned Hand]

zMuffin - You're flat out wrong. Anyone can verify by putting Learned Hand and Roleplay into ISO and see the temporal order of things. I've included a few bits, in chronological order. There's a great deal more ugliness, and it wasn't started by me, and I made more than one attempt to settle it down, one of which RP is still intentionally misrepresenting for {reasons}.

@jeanne, NEVER CRUMB TO SOMEONE YOU ARE NOT HARD TOWN READING. EVER!

Second, being transparent is saying what you know when you know it.

Third, if I ever taught you wifom to the point of stopping others from communicating is good. That's my bad. For any role in existance, you've done enough. Hunt scum only for the rest of the time.

~Titus

REVIEW YOUR OWN POST

WHAT ISN'T SHARKY DOING

PAY ATTENTION TITUS. PAY SOME FUCKING ATTENTION FOR ONCE.

First volley. Pretty tame, but clearly shows there's some history with Titus and RP.

VOTE: Jeanne11

Too much noise and too much smokescreen for scum to hide in. Could have the most incredible role ever conceived and I would still want to get rid of the noise.

~Drixx

Here's where I enter into things. There's nothing here that should instigate anyone to respond with personal attacks.

If that's a lynch, replace out

Not dealing with this stupidity.

First attack at me; borderline. "this stupidity" could refer to play and not me personally. Later quotes make it clear that it isn't aimed at play. Still ... for the sake of having context, this is included.

Jeanne, can you stop insulting me for no reason, it isn't helping me look at you objectively.

Cerberus, did Jeanne make any claim in the neighborhood?

Also Jeanne, did you quote your role from your PM and if not, can you?

I dunno, why are you literally trash?

Here's RP abusing another player, calling them "literally trash".

I have been playing mafia for more years than you've been potty trained.

Okay, more than zero isn't much, I'm being fair.

But honestly, I have never seen a less impressive and less intelligent entrance to the game. It seems deliberately designed to needle a player who has already come close to blowing up. And then you try to bait her into getting modkilled. If she's town, and I'm fairly certain she is, then you're either scum or one of the worst players I have ever had the displeasure to play mafia with.

Here's RP personally insulting {someone}. It's not entirely clear who he is attacking here.

Jeanne, can you stop insulting me for no reason, it isn't helping me look at you objectively.

Cerberus, did Jeanne make any claim in the neighborhood?

Also Jeanne, did you quote your role from your PM and if not, can you?

I dunno, why are you literally trash?

Posts like this should stop.

~Titus

Here's Titus just saying that the personal attack type posts should stop. She didn't say anything out of line.

CERBERUS STOP BEING SHIT

STOP BEING SHIT

I NEED ONE PLAYER IN THIS GAME WHO ISN'T SHIT

WORK WITH ME HERE

Calls everyone in the game Shit.

@Roleplay, I don't see what the hyponotoad has to do with anything.

Really, then why aren't you lynching Sharky? The man who hasn't posted for a million years? Because all glory to the hypnotoad.

Because he can give you fuckers desperadoes which forces your scum team to implode or confirm us as town. Win win.

Yeah, Titus? You're bad at mafia.

The last guy who tried to provoke people is dead and flipped scum.

You shouldn't emulate your buddy or if you are Derp town, scum.

Titus pointing out that provoking people is a scum tactic, right after RP again is slinging insults.

Titus, you have always been bad at mafia. You're copying some of the most violently toxic players on the site, and the past few years haven't made you any better. I'd say that all they've done is give you an ego, but you had that since day 1 (and it was even less deserved then).

Get out of your fucking derp tunnel. You're going to complain that we're all bad and shit when it turns out we're all town and you're helping the scumteam, as usual, but it's basically your MO. I'm sure you have some game you want to link me to where you caught all the scum day 1 and everyone ignored you, but everyone ignored you because you're usually wrong, you live in tunnels, and you operate on pure confirmation bias.

You want to play like a fucking terrorist? Fine. You'll put yourself on the need to die list, and one way or another I will see that happen. I always, always do. That is a promise, by the way. If I'm town and I want someone to die, one way or another they fucking die. I don't by a long shot have a strong town read on you, and the more you flail about trying to threaten me (hah! If you had any fucking clue) then the more you move towards being a necessary death. You think I'm town and you're threatening me because I disagree with your reads, Titus, what does that say about you?

A completely non instigated all out attack on Titus.

I POSTED THE QUOTES IN THREAD ARE YOU ILLITERATE?

HE VOTES JEANNE FOR CHAINSAW DEFENDING HERSELF. AND OMGUS VOTING TN. ITS FABRICATED FUCKING BULLSHIT

GET YOUR FUCKING HEAD IN THE GAME. CHRIST.

Here we go with more attacks against people and not play.

I said OLDER than 10, muffin. I know reading is a problem for you, why not ask your teacher for some of those books with the pretty pictures to amuse you while the grownups have a conversation.

Interesting that zMuffin (inaccurately) tried to paint me as the instigator. Makes me wonder if zMuffin perhaps thought I was the one who posted this and just mixed the two of us up.

@ZMuffin, Those aren't

town

thought processes. I pushed for the miller claims to see who would jump. Scum would love to lynch the millers in succession. When I call him on this, he says Shiro is his homeboy for life.

As deadline approaches, he's back to miller hysteria.

He took the same approach with Jeanne. Never going to vote her and then does when it's easy.

The negative utility comments regarding reflexive BG rolecop are subtle jabs at EAP, and I don't get why you townread them.

While one can be a scum miller, it's unlikely unless multiball. Shiro's posting doesn't look scummy to me.

Holy christ

It's more lies! God in heaven Titus if you're town you can literally eat a bag of dicks.

Where in the everloving fuck have I pushed Errant OR Shiro or claimed that they should be lynched or were scum or even fucking interacted with them in the past 24 hours aside from me telling you that I'm not pushing them? Die in a fire, you are lying. Your push against me is lies. You're fucked cuz I know you're scum and you're trying to get me lynched in day play so you don't have to NK me.

I vote Jeanne when it was easy? I VOTED JEANNE WHEN SHE FUCKED UP. I OUTLINED WHY AND HOW SHE FUCKED UP.

Oh hey look it's you agreeing that scum miller's don't exist, so I'm right to think Shiro is town. you said something that isn't bullshit. Have a cookie Titus.

Careful, she's about to whine that you're breaking site rules rather than interact.

Telling someone to eat a bag of dicks is totally cool, amirite?

So if you want to be worthless, be worthless. You can leave the name calling out of it.

yeah, fuck up retard, you're shit at the game and you're calling others worthless and shit

get fucked

This needs to either get modkilled or WotC killed. To my everlasting shame, I slipped and let my exposure to the internet cause me to use the word "tard" in a completed game on site. It's the worst thing I've ever said on this site.

The word "retard" is so far across the line and so blatantly a cruel attack against the person (and most certainly not the play), and it's also ridiculously insulting to the rest of us.

~Drixx

Here's zMuffin and RP going after each other, both across the line, and me commenting that it needs to stop.

If you're talking to me, save your breath. I've been shitting my guts out and spending 80% of my waking time in the washroom for the last few days. I was V/LA across the site.

I'm trying to catch up in this game and seeing shit like that just infuriates me. I'm crippled. I am not "a" cripple. There's a difference. The word crippled describes my condition. I am not "physically challenged" or any of that politically correct mumbo jumbo. I can take care of myself. I get in and out of my wheelchair without aid. I can get off the ground if I fall. I cook, clean, drive, work and excel in my field. My legs don't work properly due to a spinal injury, so I'm crippled.

But if you decide to call me "a" cripple, you are adding negative judgment and suggesting I am sub-human because of it. The same goes for when you say someone is "a" retard. There's a difference between being retarded (which, as a word, simply means that something has been slowed down ... growth can be retarded both physically and mentally), and being called "a" retard. It's the name calling that has no place in civilized discourse.

~Drixx

Me trying to diffuse the situation by exposing some of my own personal stuff to make the point.

RP, seriously, stop it with the name calling. It's unnecessary. You were already warned by the mod. i don't want the result of this game to be marred by someone getting themselves modkilled.

Drixx: that post was terrible. So bad. Why are you even telling us this right now? Why is it relevant? Why are you working so hard to diminish pressure before any pressure exists? Hell, your slots even ASKED for a 1v1, when you could have just laid low. it doesn't make sense to follow that up with a fucking wall of "keep away from us because we are good for town and we will totally claim soon". You know what happens when you do that? You tell us that you are no longer interested in a 1v1, and now you just want to get the hell out of the middle of things.

Also, I wasn't talking about grammar Drixx! I was talking about how it's very easy to look at that sentence (notice my EBWOP, because I typoed!) in terms of logical syntax, and see a clear claim that both sharky and jeanne are investigatives.

pedit: RP, that's not true. Drixx is quite content claiming vague but useful and deliberately trying to draw NK's to himself, or to do so to WIFOM scum.

Then he lies as town. That's probably a reflection of his character more than anything.

He's lying scum here.

Unprovoked attack on my personal character.

"Vote Learned Hand and put up with this pile of patronizing bullshit where we alternate between claiming you're too stupid to talk to and you won't be responding and doing a point by point rebuttal!

Deal with the scum hydra who will blame any inconsistencies on other the other head!"

Yeah, most people don't want to put up with that. Too bad for you I don't really care.

I'd like to step outside of the game and speak "OOC" for a moment. For your own mental health, I think you probably need to go for a walk or go do something else for awhile. I type really fast and you are flooding in a ridiculous amount of rage posts in a very short period of time. That amount of rage generally puts a lot of stress on the body's autonomic systems, raises blood pressure, and does a lot of other not so great things for your physical and mental well being.


Back "In Character" - I'm still waiting for you to actually like quote me lying. Mafia is a game where people of all alignments lie and deceive for various reasons. You are repeatedly calling us "Lying scum" and "The scum hydra" and so on and so forth, but so far as I've seen, you haven't actually demonstrated that we lied anywhere.

Furthermore, I don't believe either of us ever said that we never post without consulting one another. We talk on slack when we can, but we both possess agency. We can act on our own.

As for your assertion that I just now soft claimed ... erm ... we've softed basically the whole day phase, all the way back to our first posts. If you choose to ignore the part where I point out to you the evidence that we long ago softed what we are and someone would either have a pretty good idea what we are or would have to assume we're really terrible players because of it ... that's on you. You don't get to just say something and have it be true and line up with reality just because you are misinformed (or intentionally trying to misinform others). I was quite clear that we had made posts thousands of posts ago that I'm sure most of the game caught on to and they have some idea what we are.

I'm sorry you missed it... but that's not excuse for frothing at the mouth rage posts.

This is the end of me talking with you until you show you can calm down and have a rational adult conversation. I warned you when I started posting that I was only going to talk to you right now unless you stopped, and you've kept up with the toxic posts and rage posting, so if you can't behave, I will simply ignore you. I don't need the stress, and I have no interest in helping you flood the game with noise.

The proverbial ball is in your court mate.


With affection,
Drixx

Here's the "mental health" quote. You can go look at the surrounding context. At the point when I made this post, RP had been making rage posts and spamming the thread for around an hour. I was showing genuine concern for his well being. I didn't make any commentary on his mental health, since I don't know him and don't have any idea if he has any issues. What I

DID

do was point out the many issues that anger/rage can have on the body, both physically and mentally. The words "mental health" were used in the context of me stepping outside of the game and again trying to diffuse the situation. Everything I said is true in terms of what anger/rage do to the body, and anyone familiar with psychology can describe the long term negative effects of anger and rage on a person's mental state.

---

There's quite a lot more, but suffice it to say that I've made more than one attempt to steer RP away from the ugliness. It wasn't started by either head of this hydra, and anyone can verify that just by putting us in ISO and looking at things in temporal order. Some people seem to think that nobody should have a problem with people crossing the line; however, the rules exist for a reason. I think both Titus and I have been absurdly patient and endured quite enough abuse long before now.

And for the record: I'm in a hydra. I can not post the rest of the game and that isn't a threat to Dramonic in any way. There's someone else who can post. I personally simply won't be participating as long as RP is allowed to continue his behavior. I've shown in context that it was not instigated by myself, nor was it instigated by Titus. We have both, in fact, done our best to take the high road and try to get it to stop on multiple occasions. RP seems incapable of playing the game without crossing the line, and since we cannot get him to stop by any means, that forces us to ask the moderator to handle it.


@zMuffin - In the future, please go check your facts before you come after me trying to say it's my fault that someone is frothing at the mouth raging and attacking people. It's a simple matter to look at what was posted, and when, and see that neither head of this hydra provoked RP into his behavior. He chose to cross the site rules and refuses to change his behavior. Nobody provoked him or forced him to do that. There's an implicit social contract in place, and part of that social contract is that we all agree to abide by the site and game rules, and behave like adults. Nobody gets to tell me that I am obligated to endure constant attacks that violate the rules, because I'm not.

~D