SAGA FRONTIER MAFIA (GAME END)

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Explaining my situational awareness is a hair set on fire type of event?? Or asking for clarification on what sensei still thinks we should do?

-Cerb

Pedit: ABR, I keep hearing zulfy claimed liza, R&Ls other conftown name, but I don't remember where it happened..

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Hmm. I might be misremembering then? Someone keeps calling zulfy senseis mason partner, and I assumed that was what they were referring to? Only way it made sense...

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Cooldog: double check your role PM. Are you sure no one else can go to Wakatu? What happens if someone else tries? PM the mod for clarification if you're not sure.

Drixx: PM the mod right now, ask if you can adventure to Wakatu if you want to, or if there's anything stopping you from doing so.

I submitted it as an adventure placeholder earlier and was given no objection. I can ask, but Varsoon generally won't answer a question designed to discern someone's alignment.

Flavor wise, Gen as an enabler for Wataku makes sense, but it kinds makes more sense as something like what ABR said, adventuring in a certain area gives special benefits if he's involved, but I don't see why we couldn't go to Wataku even if his extra whatever isn't enabled. I guess you could get a failure on your adventure attempt?

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

We need someone else here besides just me.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Well, someone who isn't currently voting one of the wagons..:p

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

VOTE: CoolDog

Watch out for Bit and Fire shenanigans, just need 1 vote on MP from zulfy or ABR. I was gonna vote MP so he could vote cooldog if he wanted to help out, but didn't wanna open us up to a stealth double vote move. Hopefully someone shows up and sense is still here. I'm out.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

DS just strikes me as very confused. I want him in the fold, not in the wild, if that makes sense. The choice is his.

Fair enough

I'm not looking to lynch him anytime soon as I prefer to go after those I'm more confident about. Like Maxwell.

First time was here before many of the other cool kids.
I need to go now so I don't have time to search for all but we definitely made it very clear we wanted to lynch him.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

As I said, I was going to post a massive wall like others on him, cooldog and some others.
I didn't have time.
I can always make them now but that is pointless.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Need to ISO everyone and start making a set of proper reads. Also glad I was right on Max. Now if anyone wonders why the heck I didn't post many of the posts I intended to it is because I had important exams that week, family member had a heart-attack on Saturday and another had a minor stroke. My week was hell at that's why I didn't post at all before the lynch of them both and didn't post too much except it short bursts through weekdays. That is going to change.
~wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Rabbit was a mec found in Red quests which he used to find the secret drug base of Metal Black hidden somewhere in town , then Red went to destroy it(it being the base,rabbit just joined his party)

Ftfy

~Lina

Btw if we have a person who cam block dayvig kills I can totally buy itlepip being scum. Although I am leaning toward what FA suggested, that he is 3P

P.edit

She was just saved from.being killed but I really doubt s buddy would so flat out save her.

Btw Sensei you can still double lynch. Let's organise yo.

Don't end this day before I have the chance to get my thoughts out, which I'll start forming this afternoon.
I imagine cerb will be doing the same so he may be able to add his own thoughts to mine.

I haven't read a lot of pages which I need to do.
~wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Titus, I assume you continued to read suidoken after you were killed.
If so you will have seen that once I'm presented with some flips I can start piecing together associative tells, the more flips the more accurate I become. A scum flip helps me tremendously, as it did in suidoken where I did a 180° on my reads after a scum flip, then managed to figure out the final two scum. Minus one weird almost third party mislynch.
This is just how I approach games. I start trying to find inconsistencies, then when I get more information I switch my focus to how people interact(ed) with others. Though if I find a strong contradiction I'll make point of it. I try to refresh my reads each day to avoid missing stuff.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

you aren't dealing with titus you are dealing with me

My apologies Mollie, my point stands however.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

@mod: Would a roleblock prevent a selfcommuter from triggering, assuming it's something they need to activate?

Just want to know if we can identify where one of those roleblocks could have possibly went without compromising anyone livings role. I mean, as far as I can tell there was no actual reason for EP to not just commute every night(except for those where he goes on an adventure, I guess? need more information about how those two things would interact).

Flum: night naturally happened over the weekend, when I actually had time to play(kinda), so I'm somewhat limited in my ability to do things here. Was there anything in particular you wanted me to address, so I can prioritize it? Or was this just you expressing a desire to see more of my thoughts so you could solidify your read, regardless of what they're on? If the latter, you'll hopefully get at least some thoughts later on.

DP, Yos: Please tell me you have some other thoughts on our slot than "They pushed for a double lynch which actually DID include a scum slot, but without an apparent vig shot wouldn't have even been able to gain any of the benefit of bussing a member of their own team to offset the negatives of blatantly working to organize a pro-town situation which happened to get a town slot, one which was widely scum read and at great risk of being lynched for most of the day, and thus didn't actually need any work on the part of scum!them to hang. Oh, and one head wants to reevaluate the game and their reads after seeing 3 flips, including one scum."

Also please tell me if I'm misrepresenting what you guys have said, because that's the only thing I've noticed said about us, but it's been a super long game and I could have easily missed other points you may have made, I'll address things as soon as I'm able.

I'll attempt to actually figure out what's going on when I get home. The wagons up to 4325 were pure(that is, do not appear to have been influenced by the prospect of sensei's double lynch), and there was a lot of movement between 4325 and 4450. I need to look through those posts in particular and determine what part of that wagon came before any pushing towards a double lynch came up. Those individuals who first moved to MP in the face of the easy cooldog wagon are ones I'm inclined to flag as tentatively town, but I need to figure out when they stopped making their own moves, and just started sheeping/following my directions.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Oh, and a thought that I had while reading: DS, why didn't you claim ascetic D1 again? It's...one of those things that's negative utility for town, and positive utility for scum. As such, town should pretty much always claim it before risking any of towns night actions get wasted, ESPECIALLY when they know people are suspicious of them.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

DP, Yos: Please tell me you have some other thoughts on our slot than "They pushed for a double lynch which actually DID include a scum slot, but without an apparent vig shot wouldn't have even been able to gain any of the benefit of bussing a member of their own team to offset the negatives of blatantly working to organize a pro-town situation which happened to get a town slot, one which was widely scum read and at great risk of being lynched for most of the day, and thus didn't actually need any work on the part of scum!them to hang.

Oh, and one head wants to reevaluate the game and their reads after seeing 3 flips, including one scum.

"

this literally has nothing to do with why I am scumreading you.

Cool, cause those are really bad reasons and the only ones I've seen articulated. Although, you must forgive me for thinking the bolded was related, given that you questioned wgeurts in 5377 about his statement that he's going to get some real reads out, and then voted us.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Thanks Varsoon! So, umm, yeah. EP shouldn't have died last night? Maybe he misunderstood his role and thought if he commuted his posting restriction wouldn't be lifted? Weird.

-Cerb

pedit: I asked the question in the original post, right below the part you quoted? I said if I was misrepresenting you, to correct me(which you did), and though I didn't explicitly say so, implied in that was a desire for you to tell us why you're scumreading us, since it seems I completely misunderstood you.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Wait what why are you voting us pirates?
I'm still reading up but Cerb just mentioned this to me.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Hmm. actually, given that MP changed from 3 man lylo auto-win into strongman+5x roleblock(and if I recall previous games correctly, varsoon allows a single slot to both send in a factional kill and perform a single action), it was well worth scums time to let him get lynched, coupled with the (as displayed by sentiments after he made his lynchproof claim) auto-clear some were inclined to give him on the basis of thinking lynchproof was too strong for scum. There might be a lot less value in the MP wagon than I'd originally hoped to find. :-/

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I've literally said I'm busy as hell right now and am reviewing all my reads.
Also pushing DGB is definitely something I'll be doing, she has failed to respond to literally everything I mentioned on her and I don't like it. When I say I will give posts I will, life however is being a pain in the ass and I'm not going to let you scum read us for that. Give us a few days to get our stuff back together, I know cerb hasn't got much time on his hand right now either.
I can guarantee this is about to change.
~wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Cool. Is that mostly at wgeurts, or is that both of us? Cause I think our answers are going to be very different. :p

Well, I'll answer for me: If it were just me playing the slot, I wouldn't have even given you any reads on D1. Like fuck off, stop asking about it, would have been my response. Since I'm sharing it with wgeurts, I sheeped his reads, and we pushed the fuck out of the one actual strong scum read he had on a slot that actually had an ISo worth a damn, Sensei. Which was wrong, but you can't say we're just...leaving our reads lying around. I repeatedly said I'd be quite happy with pivoting the wagon over to zulfy or DGB if it seemed feasible to do so...I mean, can you suggest one reason why scum!us, if we were in the business of manufacturing reads, wouldn't have got around to Cooldogs way earlier in the day to give us an excuse to hop onto that wagon while it was hot? IDK, maybe you can, but I can't. You were even doing all the hard work for scum!us, so all we'd need is to put some time into seeing what looked scummy to you, agree with you, and followed suit. *shrug*

-Cerb

pedit: oh look, wgeurts responded too. Cool. Yosarian, pending a reread and isoing, I really have you as pretty likely to be town, but it does concern me a bit that you made your pushing of our slot yesterday contingent upon the flip of cooldog(Actually, to be precise, I think DP made it contingent upon cooldogs flip, and then yosarian agreed somewhat, but i'd need to double check if he just said "yeah, they're suspicious," or if he said "yeah, if cooldog flips town, they're suspicious." i get that MP wasn't expected to flip, but it screams convenience ya know? Then, after MP does flip, and you have the opportunity to evaluate *both* lynches, you guys...just don't. I get that bussing is a thing, and MP's role was such that getting lynched gave his slot more raw power throughout the game, but the complete disregard for that concerns me. Yes, I was happy getting two people rather than one yesterday, yes one flipped town, yes one flipped scum, why are you both playing as though we were the architects behind a D1 mislynch when we weren't even the ones screaming "CoolDog is scum!"?

It confuses and worries me.

peditx2: Agreed. So you're saying you believe scum us decided it was better to expose ourselves in a blatant push to try to get two lynches, in order to trigger maxwells lynchproof, rather than just taking the easy single mislynch offered? It's not unreasonable, I just want to be certain that's the line you're saying you believe we took.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Cuz, I mean, if that's the line you believe we took, i don't think there's any real point to actually discussing that whole sequence of events with you. It's certainly plausible, and as such I'll just let you decide whether it's what you believe happened or not. There's little in the way of logical flaws in that thought.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I mean, it's great he flipped scum and all, but a scum who's powers are unlocked when he's lynched? That's SOOOO obviously a scum-lead wagon. Honestly, I find CooLDoG's much more town-led. Even though he flipped town, it gave scum a golden opportunity to point out that dangerous people were on a town wagon while they were on a scum one. I may not be the best at this, but even I can recognize just how scum benefits from yesterday's events.

Please stop. You are not good at this game and working out alignments. Not being rude, just saying it how it is. The truth is brash. Max's wagon was town-initiated; I made the case for it and pushed it. Max campaigned directly against ABR

the entire day

and that's when ABR's suspicion of Max-scum started. 2407 and 2408 is where it all began.

Yeah, he probably got bussed by buddies; that doesn't mean he was a great idea to lynch or scum benefited in any way by losing a strongman(or w/e role goes through docs) and 5-time RB. Cooldog was a fairly easy read as town too and the general notion going around that he might not be a good idea was town-initiated too. Scum can jump on it, sure, but painting it as anything else is absurd. Just because the people in the party with you and confirmed town was on the wagon does not mean it was "much more town-led".

Scum did not make a counterwagon to cooldog with their own buddy on purpose.

Seriously. There were so many other possible pushes that had received a decent amount of attention and votes earlier in the day(itle/sky/KC/flum) that really only had token voices raised against them. Unless those other options were ALL scum, the beginning of MP's wagon was *very* likely town driven. Unfortunately, that's only the first few names. After that point, there was the pressure to get the double lynch etc. going, so it greatly diminishes the value of those portions of the wagon as being indicative of town. ESPECIALLY considering nobody ever had any problem voting Max, everybody only raised concerns if they were being asked to vote CD.

DP: Correct me if I'm wrong(I super duper might be), but I think at least one of your heads was in favor of KC as town, or at least as someone that you'd be able to clearly classify later on. Was the willingness to vote KC/exasperation that she wasn't lynched yet indicative of dissonance, or have the two of you arrived at the conclusion that you believe KC is more likely scum than town?

-Cerb

pedit: I feel like it's more likely scum would have preferred to keep the 1x deathproof in reserve. As strong as 5x roleblock is, given the claims yesterday(alternating BP doctor, perma BP into perma deathproof, a double lynch enabler that's extremely likely town and about to become nearly impossible to kill), if scum wanted MP 's other abilities activated, it would have been for the strongman, not the RB...which begs the question, why does scum MP reveal his RB, and lie about the number of targets he can have? Maybe I'm overthinking this? I guess I need this question confirmed.

@Mod: In the case of MP's flipped role, would he have been able to both submit the factional kill, AND use his roleblock?

If he could have only done one, rather than both, him revealing the roleblock doesn't make sense in the case where they were deliberately attempting to get his powers activated, because it means they were activating said power for the sake of the roleblock, rather than the strongman, which doesn't seem as strong with the known claims? Am I just bad in thinking strongman>5x roleblock on N1, with these claims?

Anyways, the point is, in spite of the incentive to get him lynched, it seems improbable that the roleblock would be a good enough reason to put a member of a scum team at risk, so that begs the question of why didn't a slot who had claimed to be BP get shot instead of EP, if a lynch was actually planned...

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Forgot the bolding.

@Mod: In the case of MP's flipped role, would he have been able to both submit the factional kill, AND use his roleblock?

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

His indignations and outbursts are not genuine. Just like I caught Max.

We're doing it again.

The theory that Cool Cucumbers was pushing double lynch to mislynch Cooldog and power up Max is something I can understand. I'll wait for his response and what position he takes. I would like to narrow down the field of potential lynches, resolve the daykill, and get more substance from Zulfy, Klingon, and others who have yet to pick a side that has actual momentum behind it.

ABR, I think you already have this heads response. I said above that if that theory(which was suggested by me. :p DP's push comes for different reasons according to them) was what anyone cared to use to explain why we would campaign so strongly for the double lynch, then I don't really have any response to that. It's a perfectly reasonable goal to have. I don't think it would have been worth the exposure and associatives whenever MP did flip to scum!me, but I can see why it would appear that way to someone else. *shrug* Good argument is a good argument, and the only point to make against it is to say that I wouldn't do that so blatantly, but scum!me would say that too.

@Mod: In the case of MP's flipped role, would he have been able to both submit the factional kill, AND use his roleblock?

Yes. However, he would not have been able to submit the Strongman Kill and use his roleblock, as those are both activated night actions.
As per the role PM flipped, the factional kill does not count against a player's limit of a singular night action.

Thanks again Varsoon. Sorry to keep bothering you. So, I'm currently very confused by why MP told us about his RB. He could have just got a "as guaranteed as possible" kill on DP or ABR, one of whom is a known strong town player who has claimed to be BP, and the other has a role which, unless the player is quite incompetent, is well worth killing, and neither of whom would have likely had a watcher or anything on them, compared to Sensei. Again, am I overvaluing the strongman kill in this situation?

-Cerb

pedit: Ascetic generally wouldn't protect against a vig. There's a reason why Ascetic and BP are different modifiers. I recommend pip hold off on the day vig for a bit though, wherever we decide it should be pointed...I feel like not everyone has even checked this game yet and there might be more informed options presented.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Cerb consider the position that I took, and for which you got testy with me.

I said I wanted a Max lynch, and the double lynch was a bonus, but I didn't push for it at all.

My take was more reasonable and ultimately better for town.

What can you contribute with regards to DS?

My concern with cool cucumbers is he takes a middle and cautious stance on using the dayvig, but a hardline stance on the double lynch yesterday. I was also gone when Cooldog got hammered. I would have stopped it were I present. Any town there on that last day should have stopped it.

You're misrepresenting me. I don't believe kills should ever be used hastily. I actually think itlepip and flum(that's who he neighborized, right?) should have plotted and misdirected their potential targets, got them talking, chatted with them and got as much information from them as possible, and then brought up the idea of the vig 4-5 RL days into the phase. That's just how I play guilties and vigs and such, I use them for maximum information. I never said the dayvig *shouldn't* be used, I said the targeting should wait until after we have more information, if there's more to be gained.

I mean, this is more of a theory point, but if you have two worlds, one where the vig is used at the very beginning of the day, one where it's used in the middle of the day, and one where it's used at the very end of the day, which one is ultimately more likely to give town information? The one where you get to see interactions both before and after the flip is revealed. it's just better play imo, unless you have reason to be afraid you'll be shot yourself.

I got testy with you yesterday because you were sowing the belief that the double lynch wasn't possible and disincentivizing the town from even attempt what is a stronger play overall. More town controlled kills are good. Yes, given the flips, a lynch on *just* MP would have been better than a lynch on both, but without certain knowledge of both slots alignment the double lynch is better from an optimization standpoint.

Anyways, your statement that I'm playing cautious with one but wasn't with the other is false. If I were suggesting we not use the dayvig at all today, while egging on a double lynch, you would absolutely be correct; however, that is not what I'm doing. I'm suggesting we use the dayvig when maximum information is to be gained, or at least when everyone has had a chance to catch up and contribute.

With regards to DS: I really want to go home and read through his ISO. I find it interesting that he's hard scum reading me at this point, when all i recall him saying with regards to suspicions of our slot yesterday was that he wanted to turbolynch anyone who "threw shade on conftown". I also find his lack of ascetic claim suspect. I even specifically called it out yesterday, saying that all ascetics and millers should claim D1( I should have included PGO's), just to make sure nobody could claim they simply didn't know that's how they should play that role(an excuse I've heard both scum and town give on at least one prior occasion, and he still didn't claim. That's absolutely anti-town behavior, but it isn't necessarily scummy. I'm quite interested in knowing if the information he had to share, that was the reason why he wanted to be in the party, and made a big deal about having a safe place to discuss things, was just his ascetic, simply because if that was honestly all it is, his outburst and reveal of said power to the whole game doesn't make any sense.

So, in short, there are scummy and anti-town behaviors that i can recall off the top of my head, but I do need to ISO him to be certain I'm not misremembering anything.

-Cerb

pedit: yes, a double lynch is LEAST useful on D1...but that's only relevant if the double lynching ability has limited shots. When you can double lynch on EVERY day, and you have good cause to suspect the source of the double lynch won't live through the night, it's reasonable to want to ensure town gets to control that extra kill.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

From sparking abilities after the mission...read first page.

how do you know that he was sparked what am I missing here

DP, Varsoon confirmed earlier in thread that everyone who goes on an adventure will spark a technique. That's what ABR is referring to. He means he wants DS lynched before he gets to go on tonight's adventure, because he believes DS is scum and does not want him to gain any further power for his team.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

you aren't dealing with titus you are dealing with me

My apologies Mollie, my point stands however.

so what you are saying is that your big long reads with the giant sized font didn't count and now you are actually going to put out a readslist? I wasted minutes of my precious life reading those paragraphs.

VOTE: cool cucumbers

MC: SENSEI

I missed this.
Of cause they count, they were my thoughts at that point in time and many wont have changed. What is so absurd about me going through people's ISO's after having a few flips to see if I can add more info to them?
Anyway, I'm 20 pages behind and no longer on Day 1 and am reading up.
~wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

12 pages to go, then I'll get to looking at Max's ISO and everyone else's. I started doing this day 1 but never finished due to IRL reasons mentioned earlier.
Mollie, I'll also get back to you.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Also ABR is Town and I'll pull another gambit day-kill on anyone who says otherwise.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Gale Slash: GWS

Also why the hell haven't we vigged one of flum/DS when their claims are obviously contradicting? Or does something change in the coming few pages?
~wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Can I point out this as the point where, on the wiki, it says for town to

NOT DO UNCALLED FOR GAMBITS.

Ugh. Sorry, second one I've seen lately that nearly lost town the game.

Can someone explain what happened? Someone gambited?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Mate I literally said I would fake day kill anyone who scum read ABR and you vote him the post after that. It's a joke.
~wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

is klingon lynched yet?

why isn't she lynched yet.

Wasn't she a strong town read?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Hello Sensei, who do you think is scum right now?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Cool Cucumbers is town.

Just give me a nod if you think I'm thinking what you're thinking.

?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Not entirely sure as I haven't started checking up associatives, DGB's play has been bad though. I'll have plenty of stuff once I've done this, I'll get back to you once I have scum reads and rest assured I'll be pushing them.

MC:ABR

~wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I can state with extremely high confidence that there are two scum factions in this game.

Why?
This could be pretty darn important for the way I start viewing the game while looking for associative tells.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Caught-up, anyone want to discuss anything with me right now?
~wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

FA, people realised earlier I'm afraid.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

What

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Albert lynch isn't going to happen. Mollie, I'm interested in why Titus has vanished and what her thoughts are of the current game state.
Could you also possibly explain what your views are right now?
Anything you wish to discuss with me?
¬wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Albert lynch isn't going to happen. Mollie, I'm interested in why Titus has vanished and what her thoughts are of the current game state.
Could you also possibly explain what your views are right now?
Anything you wish to discuss with me?
¬wgeurts

any1 who wants abr for mc is scumclaiming.

any1 who is asking for titus to post is scumclaiming.

we had 815 posts on d1 and most of them came from her. if you can't get where her thoughts were from those posts then you are clearly not paying attention and don't really seem interested in what she has to say at all.

and no, I don't particularly feel like talking to you right. I am not seeing the town motivation in your posts. so sorry, but no interest.

Why did you mention anyone who wants ABR for MC is scumclaiming in that post? The post wgeurts made had nothing to do with ABR being MC.

Oh. Hmm. Apparently wgeurts voted ABR for MC. Yeah umm, i don't know why the hell he would do that. Left him a message asking why. *shrug*

Mollie, can you just confirm then, that nothing Titus had to say yesterday, none of her thoughts, have been changed by the fact that you guys were absolutely wrong about CoolDog? Or by any of the other flips? What does the cooldog town flip do to all those associatives with ABR you were expecting to see?

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

A lot of this discussion can be resolved tomorrow. Best to just finish this now.

VOTE: MaxwellPuckett

It's all functionally the same anyways

Was Max going to try and spin his role as some sort of townie power?

He did not want to get lynched, I feel. Yosarian is probably right.

Albert lynch isn't going to happen. Mollie, I'm interested in why Titus has vanished and what her thoughts are of the current game state.
Could you also possibly explain what your views are right now?
Anything you wish to discuss with me?
¬wgeurts

any1 who wants abr for mc is scumclaiming.

any1 who is asking for titus to post is scumclaiming.

we had 815 posts on d1 and most of them came from her. if you can't get where her thoughts were from those posts then you are clearly not paying attention and don't really seem interested in what she has to say at all.

and no, I don't particularly feel like talking to you right. I am not seeing the town motivation in your posts. so sorry, but no interest.

Right because not talking to someone you are suspecting really helps give you a better idea whether you are right or not. And yes I know what Titus thoughts where then, we've had three flips since then and a tonne of information. I also understand Titus reasoning more than yours, you just seem to want to ignore me.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Flipping phantom quote

[The Cool Cucumbers]

MC:Sensei

Why the hell are people who had us as strong town suddenly suspecting is? Ive said a thousand times I've been busy as hell and life wasn't helping a wasn't able to get a tonne of stuff done that I wanted to. I'm not going to fucking accept you pushing us for that, look at my posts on the whole forum you'll see they went down dramatically during that period.
Do I need to dump the whole Skype log with cerb or something?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I think you are town. What are you saying?
Town should work together.
I want to see your thoughts, compare them to my own and see whether I'm mistaken in places. That's what I'm doing right now.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Where did I discredit you?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Where are you drawing that conclusion from FA?
And Max was pushed multiple times, which one are you speaking about?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

That's not discrediting.
How the hell is that discrediting
That's asking for your thoughts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

VOTE: Cusumbers

last post felt so fake

I think it makes sense that your scum with max flip as well. lets start with suspecting you.

whats your read on ABR ?

and why your not voting Sensei when its basically the only way for town to counter this hated/Fire votes stuff ?

~Rylai

Dude, I have no idea why wgeurts voted the way he did, he apparently doesn't even remember doing it.

...

Last post felt fake because i was confused by DP's implied assertion that I wanted ABR for MC, hen I knew for a fact i had done no such thing, so I then decided to go check on what wgeurts had done while i was still writing the post? *shrug* Feel if that's fake if you want to I guess. wgeurts thinks there's good arguments for him as town, I haven't even got around to isoing anything yet.

-Cerb

pedit: DP, you missed the point. The *only* thing i wanted to know was whether or not anything has changed in Titus' thoughts with the various flips, that's all. People are wrong, it happens, I don't fucking care about that. Since you don't want to have Titus post, and are telling us to go off of her posts which happened before the flips, I simply want to know if there were any changes in any of her thoughts due to the flips.

That's all.

pedit x2: Flum, mechanically, i'm still inclined to feel he's town, there was a bit of his play towards the end of the day yesterday that felt very town, but when I was reading through since todays start there was *something* that I remember seemed off about a post he made, but then later he said some other stuff that felt better. I need to check his iso and identify what the thing was that felt weird and what it was that made me feel better. Sorry.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

So you are saying because we helped lynch Maxwell we are scum?
Really?
FA, how many people tried to aid the push? Why are we scum for it.

Every single person on that wagon knew he had that ability, why are only we suspect? Why wouldn't we do this as town?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Where the heck did we say that?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Mollie talk to me,
Where the heck did we do any of what you are accusing us of?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

@Varsoon - If I understand correctly, the adventuring group can lose people if they get night killed during the night, and they cannot be replaced. Is this correct? Additionally, can a less than full party result in the loss of potential rewards? Can a less than full party result in negative outcomes that would not happen with a full party?

This is the sequence of events:
Day X - Players vote for a Main Character.
Night X - This voted Main Character submits 4 players to be his party.
Day X+1 - The voted-in Main Character gains MC immunities the surviving members of the party are made public info. They are given a day/night chat neighborhood and the MC decides where to adventure at night. The Adventure Region is made public info after the lynch.
Night X+1 - The MC and his Party all spark a technique of their choice (privately) and the rewards for Adventuring are revealed to the party.
Day X+2 - The rewards from adventuring and sparked techniques are granted to the players who received them. These rewards/techniques may now be used.

If a party member is lynched or killed at any point beyond Day X, they can not be replaced.
If a party is less than 5 members, rewards are still gained from Adventuring.
There are no negative outcomes for having less than 5 party members. The only arguable negative aspect is if a region grants a single reward (rather than a reward for the whole party), the party must still vote for who receives the reward, with the MC's vote counting as 2 votes. In this way, it would be more difficult for town to keep a scum MC from voting themselves to receive a singular reward.

For you Yosarian. I think you were the one who thought ABR had the mechanics of sparking wrong? The Night X+1 part is what's relevant here. I mean, it doesn't tell us anything we didn't already know, that we need to keep MC in the hands of town, but it is something we need to be aware of with regards to when lylo needs to be considered.

-Cerb

pedit: wtf DP? I said you were wrong about CD. You know why i said that? Because you had other associatives and such you thought you had seen with relation to CD, particularly with ABR. Because when someone is wrong about somebody, it makes them reevaluate things usually, and look at things in a new light. Maybe you had other reads that change in light of CD's flip, slots that looked bad because of interactions with him that looked better, and vice versa. i didn't say shit about your other reads.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Am I speaking to a brick wall?
Or has Jeanne stolen your hydra's password?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Eh. Can we move past wgeurts' ill considered comment about Jeanne? That was pretty pointless.

I get wanting to slow the game down mollie. There's a difference between slowing the game down, and refusing to respond to us when we show that an assertion you've made about our slot is wrong, and ask for you to show us where it is we did what you're accusing us of doing. I think there's a very simple misunderstanding happening here, where you thought I was calling all your reads crap, when that isn't what i did at all.

Also, though this doesn't really matter if itlepip actually made a real shot, I think lowkey wanted a vig, rather than votes, on DS, which is why he responded negatively to yosarian voting him. I think?

-cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

My comment on Jeanne was uncalled for, I got frustrated but shouldn't of posted that.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Also I literally mentioned the why me fry me thing on Diamond 3000 posts ago.
Mollie, I want to work with you as you and titus are skilled players. However you seem to be completely ignoring what I'm saying.
~wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Hmm. SK. No useful associatives, but definitely good that he's gone before he could make himself BP as well as lynchproof(yes, we could have apparently had a fucking unkillable except by strongman SK). His scumhunting is *kinda* valid since he did want to find scum, but he also didn't care who died. Hmm.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Mollie, I want to discuss ABR and Klingon with you.
And anyone else who is scum reading either one.
~wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Because his first kill was fake.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Also
VOTE: Dripping Goofball

[The Cool Cucumbers]

UNVOTE:
Gah

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Sheep me on Gale, I've got this game.

My main reservation with regards to Gale is they left the cooldog wagon in order to put more pressure on max, BEFORE I made my push to get a double lynch going. I still feel it's unlikely scum wanted Max dead, so that leaves me with the feeling that gale is likely town. The beginning of that push on MP waa all blank votes amd sheeping too, so it's not even like someone presented him with a compelling argument to give him a reason to vote his scum buddy.

-Cerb

ABR: you're alive because you're scum, or because the scum team didn't want to kill you. They clearly had access to a strongman last night and chose to RB 5 random slots instead of killing BP claims.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Cool ABR. I haven't even read the entirety of Gales iso, so like...yeah, I can't really argue in favor or against, other than to note what I did above. It's a small thing, but it doesn't seem like the line I'd expect a partner of Max's to take.

Do you still think the game is multiball ABR? As in, SK+ 2+ unique group scums? Or does the SK make you think it's one groupscum+SK? I'm just not seeing Gale as max's partner(on weak evidence), but if it's multiball that entire weak point is moot.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Two.

Was that in response to me ABR?

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Oh, a quick synopsis of results from wgeurts work reading the thread and stuff that he's been talking to me about,without any of the depth that he gives when he gives out reads, and without me doing any isoing or other in depth work of my own:

R&L, Sensei, Lowkey, Klingon, and Yosarian all seem town to both of us.
DGB/ZZZX is TvS, but we don't know which is which. I feel like DGB's play is only reasonable for scum!dgb if she were new, but she's not, but I also don't have any experience with her, so I don't know if this is just standard play for her period. The vote/unvote that happened earlier happened because wgeurts saw her claim that she was just getting overwhelmed by everything in this game and thus just sheeping her strongest town read, which sounds perfectly plausible to both of us. Further thoughts on ZZZX to be developed.

Within Zuffy, pip, flum, skybird there is likely at least 1 scum.

With this, you know as much as i do about the inside of wgeurts' mind.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Who are the flying sharks?
~wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I'm far from lurking Drixx. I'm literally rereading the entire fudge game and Cerb just gave all my current thoughts which anyone is free to question. Are you seriously using pre-flip associatives?
Also Sensei or ABR you both had a weird "give me a nod if you think I'm thinking what your thinking", if you have a cop innocent or something on us could you please state it now.
~wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

What cerb gave was accurate, I'm currently reading to try and figure out which of the people in the groups I've made are actually scum.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Drixx, who do you think is scum and why?
I'm not accepting you not giving explanarion to your reads as that isn't something you do.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Mollie, although I appreciate the wonderful silence that you give me each time I ask you something I'd appreciate if you answer.
Right now I'm leaning town on ABR yes, though it's one of the main reasons I've decided to reread the game. Your and ABR's alignment is one of the most important factors this game, getting is sorted and out of the way will aid us all.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I'm not liking how ZZZX has disappeared and I'm tempted to push him for it. His play hasn't been tremendously town until now either.
DGB is someone I wanted to push however I'm waffeling right now whether her play is just bad town getting overwhelmed. She literally admitted twice (once early on and one later) to sleeping her top town read. Although this doesn't make sense to me I could see it as overwhelmed town.
Pip/Flum/Sky/ I need to sort, right now I'm leaning scum or null on them however I need concrete reads there as this nonsense concerning them has lasted too long.
GWS I remember leaning town on, however once again I'll see if this stays so as I reread .
Zuffy us someone I'd gladly lynch right now, however I'm checking none the less to be assured he isn't playing as awful town VI.
Lowkey and Yosarian both seem town to me, as does Klingon who has some really strong interactions with Maxwell that make it unlikely for them to share the same alignment. And with the flip of an SK I doubt that this is multiball.

This is where I am at right now.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I had made a small wall on DS ready to be posted before pip shot him. Basically I was unsure there as his interactions with Maxwell seemed to indicate them not sharing a favtion, however his play wasn't town.
Guess it makes sense now

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Cerb seems to be rather busy right now however be has been analysing peoples reasons for switching wagons etc. Day 1. He hasn't drawn any strong conclusions just yet but I expect there will be stuff coming from him eventually.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Now we have a few lurkers right now which isn't helping. We should consider pressuring people like ZZZX to get them posting again.
As far as I'm aware its not uncommon for him to lurk as scum.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Oh yeah.
R&L and Sensei are town.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I third that motion.
¬wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Did I say something wrong Mollie?
¬wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Frozen, you up for placing a vote on ZZZX until he gets himself back in here and starts doing something useful?
¬wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Frozen, you up for placing a vote on ZZZX until he gets himself back in here and starts doing something useful?
¬wgeurts

Why not on DGB? I think they are in the same boat, DGB seems worse according to me.

DGB could just be town not giving a crumpets about the game an uninvolved, this doesn't show in ZZZX's posts so I'm more confident in getting him pressured a bit.
Though getting any lurker posting is great so *shrug*

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Flum has been scum reading us for a while I believe, yet hasn't ever bothered to explain why exactly or interact/push us at all.
¬wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

In hind sight DS did say "I hope X doesn't die horribly" an awful lot, it's quite funny to read knowing his role now.
¬wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Also, ABR can you paraphrase all the flavour for each one of your abilities?
¬wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Not that I can recall. Player's that I remember are Klingon, Titus, Mollie, ZZZX, Drixx, Shiro, FA, ABR and that's about it.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I'm not liking how ZZZX has disappeared and I'm tempted to push him for it. His play hasn't been tremendously town until now either.
DGB is someone I wanted to push however I'm waffeling right now whether her play is just bad town getting overwhelmed. She literally admitted twice (once early on and one later) to sleeping her top town read. Although this doesn't make sense to me I could see it as overwhelmed town.
Pip/Flum/Sky/ I need to sort, right now I'm leaning scum or null on them however I need concrete reads there as this nonsense concerning them has lasted too long.
GWS I remember leaning town on, however once again I'll see if this stays so as I reread .
Zuffy us someone I'd gladly lynch right now, however I'm checking none the less to be assured he isn't playing as awful town VI.
Lowkey and Yosarian both seem town to me, as does Klingon who has some really strong interactions with Maxwell that make it unlikely for them to share the same alignment. And with the flip of an SK I doubt that this is multiball.

This is where I am at right now.

Pretty much.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Then added to that Drixx, you and Sensei as town reads.
Pirate and ABR both as well but I'm relooking these. I really don't like how mollie has completely started ignoring us, then comes with some faulty stuff about us and refuses to respond when we point out she may simply be mistaken.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Also the amount of times ABR has changed his claim now is starting to bother me, even worse is the fact scum didn't even try to target a kill at the flipping doctor. He's alive, but it's something scum have allowed and that unsettles me slightly.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

He's in a neighbourhood with pip, that's been pretty obvious.
¬wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Also one really weird interaction between flum/MP:
Maxwell states he is town and refuses to budge on that read throughout all his posts, he soft defends him an awful lot yet lacks explanation for why flum should actually be town. His other reads change and fluctuate slightly, however he is very stiff in this particular one.
¬wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

You respond to that, and ignore every one of my other posts...
Lying isn't okay with us, I literally just said that.
¬wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Also the amount of times ABR has changed his claim now is starting to bother me, even worse is the fact scum didn't even try to target a kill at the flipping doctor. He's alive, but it's something scum have allowed and that unsettles me slightly.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

There's a reason we're MC voting a practically confirmed town and not ABR.
There's a reason I'm rereading the game to look back at earlier actions.
¬wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I'm not sure I understand your final sentence Yosarian. And other stuff too, but that other stuff will take a longer post to address. The only way your insinuation that Max's strongman unlocking is a bigger concern to DP than town winning makes sense is as part of a larger thought that they aren't town...is if you think they're part of another 3rd party/scum group of some sort, other than the group MP was aligned with.

Is that what you're saying you suspect, or am I misunderstanding you?

Also, umm, something else I've noticed: Everyone keeps saying yay thank you vig for the MP kill, when we JUST had a SK flip.

Groupscum+SK=2 kills. We had 2 kills last night. Thinking there was another town controlled kill at work last night is making a dangerous assumption.

Not sure how relevant it is now, we'll see what happens tonight, but yeah...just a thing that bothers me every time I see someone mention it but I'm too lazy to log into the hydra and complain.

And, actually, Drixx, I was interested in your blank vote on our slot(since blank votes with NO backing aren't your style) until I remembered you were on the adventuring party and likely shared your case with them. That made it a lot more Drixxy, if you get what I'm saying?

I do look forward to your eventual wall though.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Since we have some differing accounts of role usages and targeting and such, including an interaction with our now deceased ascetic who was apparently targeted by something that should have made him hated but someone else was made hate, I would like clarification on this:

@Mod: How would an ascetic interact with a bus driver or a redirector?

Scenario:

A targets B
C targets D
B is ascetic.

What happens if any of the following happens?

E redirects C's ability to B.
E deflects everything from B to D, or from D to B.
E swaps B and D.

Basically, does the ascetic prevent the initial swapping/redirection, so those actions fail, in addition to the original action targeting B, or does it not affect the redirection, and only affects the result of the action which is now targeted at B?

I'd also appreciate a rundown on where we're at with the whole hated modifiers? We have Yosarian who is both hated+on fire, and ABR who is on fire. Was someone else hated?

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Uh, didn't ABR claim that he was Doctor tonight and BP today?
Thus if ZZZX speaks the truth he then has lied about targeting Sensei which he promised he would do.
VOTE: ABR
That looks like ZZZX may have unraveled a scum gambit.

Doctor last night and BP tonight*

I'm also confused why scum didn't target either Sensei or ABR.
Something is off if ZZZX is actually being truthful.

Pick up and EBWOP

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Which makes no sense as:
A) ABR claimed to be Doc night 1 so he should have protected Sensei.
B) Why did scum not hit either ABR of Sensei?
Somethings off somewhere now with ZZZX/DGB/Sensei

Scum avoided killing the MC, a claimed doctor and said doctor didn't protect the supposedly confirmed town. Something here is off.
UNVOTE:
Going to discuss with cerb but this is important and shouldn't pass by unnoticed.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

ZZZX, Mollie has started ignoring everyone recently. I've been yelling at her about it for a while, just ignore it.
~wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

ZZZX, have you posted during Day 2 so far?
~wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I will point out though that his last claim yesterday he said quite specifically that he would not be able to doc protect sensei on night 1, so you didn't even prove him to be lying.

Except start this day he changed again and said he was able to doc Night 1 and is BP tonight. So this is irrelevant as a defense.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I lied about being bulletproof on odd nights btw. I'm bulletproof on even nights.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

*does a happy little jig*
I love it when something doesn't add up, it gives us a chance to solve something. We may draw the wrong conclusion at first but just like when a scum fakes a cop claim and town lynches the claimed guilty first; we'll get there eventually.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I will point out though that his last claim yesterday he said quite specifically that he would not be able to doc protect sensei on night 1, so you didn't even prove him to be lying.

Except start this day he changed again and said he was able to doc Night 1 and is BP tonight. So this is irrelevant as a defense.

He changed his claim to bulletproof tonight. I don't remember him claiming anything today about a doc ability?

He claimed alternating doc/BP, he hasn't dropped the doc yet and him doing so now wouldn't make sense. He literally claimed the series main doctor, if he claims he lied that I'm lynching him.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

If I'm MC, I can doctor protect you every night, and we both live continuously unless scum have a strongman.

He said he had doctor!

[The Cool Cucumbers]

That quote is Day 2.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Either ZZZX is a liar, ABR's dodgy or Sensei/R&L (unlikely) are mad gambiters.
Any more defenses Yosarian?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Fudge, I should have kept that post silent to see if ABR dumped his doc now.
Gah.
~wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

It is possible ABR got roleblocked.
But why would scum then not kill Sensei if Sensei is town?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Also there is no way scum roleblocked themselves, unless we have a town redirector who should claim now in that case.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

You can live for now ZZZX.

ABR claimed today that he has the same role as yesterday but on even nights BP, then he claimed he ALSO has a rune the clears status effects. With the decked roles we have seen flip so far that is possible. ZZZX's claim gives us a lot of information as scum should have tried to kill Sensei and it makes ABR's current claim even less believable. He literally claimed odd night doc today and I quoted the post. How many lies do we tolerate?
If ABR doesn't start speaking the truth and explain I'm up for a lynch.

Wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I lied about being bulletproof on odd nights btw. I'm bulletproof on even nights.

If I'm MC, I can doctor protect you every night, and we both live continuously unless scum have a strongman.

He said he had doctor!

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Oh right, so me asking you for your opinions is now dumb, mollie?
Anyway, I'm waiting for ABR to post and one for is certain; we really shouldn't be MC'ing him today or anytime soon really.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Mollie, actually its because of my rereading the game and taking a closer look at your reasons that I drew that conclusion, I'm definitely not claiming that I'm the first to draw it. I also think you are missing what I attempt to do, your slot was the main one pushing ABR, thus I ask you for your explanation why so I can compare. That's how I check myself, by working together with others. Right now you just feel like you are dismissing everything I post and ignoring everything I say, despite me reaching out to you a few times. You always speak of the importance of town seeking out each other and trying to work together, maybe you should also apply that.

~wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

ABR, care to make a case on GWS?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

The problem is I'm currently town reading him slightly (though reread mah change things) so I want you to explain in more detail.
Also who said anything about us being MC, that's never gonna happen and as long as people doubt our alignment probably unwise.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Wait, am I missing the point completey again?
Who was the bottom section aimed at?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Zuffy, reads list on everyone.
Now.
Chop chop.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Umm, I have some thoughts about Yos' whole hated/fire thing that I've dropped on wgeurts, I want him to mull it over though before we say anything more, but, well...let's just say as strongly as i feel you're town, 1) I'm not certain enough that you're town to want you as MC over sensei(although the argument about scum being disinclined to shoot you is a nice one, along with the default back to sensei), 2) I feel like the timeline you have, that is, the urgency of giving you MC to prevent such shenanigans as a voteless lynch, isn't quite so short that we need to give you MC today to prevent such things, giving us more time to be certain you're town before doing so, and 3)There is no reason why scum!yos couldn't have had this happen to himself(yes, yes, autolynch as scum in lylo, sure, but as he's said himself, if he's MC it wouldn't happen), to give town a very good reason to give him MC over others.

Mind you, all of this is just my paranoia going off at the unexpected push to MC himself over Sensei. Still pretty good about town him, nothing has pinged as scummy, but ya know, not sure if I trust this particular move.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Was that in response to me, or someone else ABR? If me...I don't think anywhere in my post I expressed the thought that he didn't take 2 less votes to lynch...

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I mean, let's consider worst case scenario math here.

16 alive right now. 9 to lynch. 7 for yosarian
We killed a kill source today, but fuck it, let's assume there's another kill out there that was prevented, cause worst case here.
lych 2, 2 deaths
12 alive, 7 to lynch, 5 for yosarian, if he can get hated AND burned again(or even double hated), 3/2 for yosarian, AND HE'S PRETTY MUCH OBVTOWN THEN. And if we're wrong, and scum control all those powers and did it to themselves to give themselves MC, if we end up in lylo, we can MC elsewhere AND vote for somebody different, getting effectively 2 lynches for town at that point and a chance to pull out a victory.
So, yeah. TOMORROW is the day to give him MC, if we're afraid of him getting auto lynched as we enter D4, assuming we get 2 lynches, and have groupscum+some other kill.

His argument is good though, I just don't think now would be the time to MC him when Sensei is still an option.

-Cerb

pedit: Fair enough ABR.

peditx2: Well, mollie, his explanation is good, but TODAY is absolutely not the optimal day to do it.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

so cerby can tell me how his explanation is good exactly other than him trying to offer conftown up as a tasty nk treat?

no1 is voting him. no1 is even scumreading him except titus. the argument isn't good cos nowhere in it is there an explanation of how it is optimal play which is the question that I keep asking.

cerby it isn't very good.

I think I'm expressing myself poorly.

There are two separate things going on here.

1 is his push to be MC
2 is the reason for his push to be MC.

2, the reason, is a good reason, it's a valid thing to be concerned about, but some simple math shows that the good reason...doesn't justify 1. Because the timing is wrong for it to accomplish the goal he's claiming is the ultimate purpose. Hell, he shouldn't have even brought it up until tomorrow, THAT way scum could have potentially wasted those powers on him again.

So yeah. His explanation does not tell us why making him MC is optimal play, but it does explain why making him MC at the appropriate time, assuming he's town etc, would be. Problem is that he's using the explanation to justify the suboptimal play.

Also, cause I'm curious how people view me, am I one of the new people who just don't know what I'm looking for, or am I one of the not new people who just aren't/weren't getting it?

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

And yes, this level of scum power is crazy. Normally I'd be assuming that scum wouldn't have power like this. But this is the mod who gave Max that absolutely batshit insane role, and that gave DS an unlynchable SK role. I don't know if you noticed how close we came to losing today;

if DS he had finished his adventure, he could have gotten bulletproof,

and then we can't lynch him or nightkill him, ever, which probably means town loses.

So I'm not assuming that this game is "fair" anymore. I'm assuming this game is unfair, I'm assuming that the scum have crazy powers that could win the game for them in a really cheap way, because it looks like that's the truth. So now I'm trying to figure out how we can work around that and win anyway.

TECHNIQUE LIST:

You must learn these techniques in the provided order. For instance, in order to learn the 'Babel Crumble' Fist Technique, you must already have learned Sliding and Suplex.

FIST:

SLIDING > SUPLEX > BABEL CRUMBLE > GIANT SWING > DREAM SUPER COMBO

SWORD:

DOUBLE SLASH > HEAVEN/HELL > DEFLECT > ROSARIO IMPALE > LIFESPRINKLER

GUN:

STUN SHOT > TOTAL SHOT or REACTION SHOT > QUICKDRAW > BOUND SHOT > TWO GUNS

DEFENSE:

DODGE DRAIN > DODGE NET > DODGE SEDUCTION >

DODGE THUNDER

> DODGE DEATHGRIP
-

-

DODGE TECHNIQUES: ALL DODGE TECHNIQUES ARE PASSIVE UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED.

DODGE DRAIN: Your vote may never be affected in any way by other players.
DODGE NET: Your night actions may never be stopped by other players who target you to stop them (a kill can't be roleblocked but can be protected from).
DODGE SEDUCTION: Your role may never be negatively affected by other player's night actions (this includes becoming a treestump).

DODGE THUNDER: You may not be killed.

DODGE DEATHGRIP: Once per night, choose a player; none of that player's abilities (including factional) will affect you and that player can not vote for you during the following day/night cycle.

Also, any scenario involving scum actually voting for the super hated person(assuming 0 town vote for them) is autolynch on that team, because even though YOU may have a lynch threshold of 3 votes, NOBODY else does. They can quicklynch you..and then what? Watch as their team gets killed because everybody else still requires 5+ votes? The snowball is an unrealistic fear, as was DS only needing one adventure to auto win(Plus, if that's the case, there's Giant Swing after one adventure to shut down his passive protections and let him get lynched). The realistic fear was forcing town to skip a day phase with no votes,and potentially in the first post go MC:scum1+burn you to give themselves a day adventuring, but they're still going to start getting lynched the next day, which will remove their necessary voting power(even if they all went and grabbed double votes, which wouldn't kick in until 2 days after the skipped day phase).

Anyways, yeah. Umm. You're being *too* paranoid, and it's saying a lot that I'm the one saying that.

-Cerb
-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

WTF.

Unvote fucking ABR you fucking idiots. Even if he's the scummiest shit around, we have WAY more to discuss today, and a double lynch possibility still on the table if that's how we want to play things.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

WTF.

Unvote fucking ABR you fucking idiots. Even if he's the scummiest shit around, we have WAY more to discuss today, and a double lynch possibility still on the table if that's how we want to play things.

-Cerb

Sorry. That was a uncalled for, and a bit stronger than intended. The point stands, but the way I expressed it was terrible.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Also one really weird interaction between flum/MP:
Maxwell states he is town and refuses to budge on that read throughout all his posts, he soft defends him an awful lot yet lacks explanation for why flum should actually be town. His other reads change and fluctuate slightly, however he is very stiff in this particular one.
¬wgeurts

I don't like this post. You should know that this doesn't mean jack.
And what's worse is there's no hard conclusion. Just that it's "weird."

Mate, how people (especially scum) acted around other players is very useful information which should be gathered. All information helps, but on its own this isn't enough to base a push on flum on. I literally stated I would be rereading and looking for this kind of stuff ages ago.
If you disagree then that's something we can discuss in MD some other time after this game is done.
~wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Coincidentally the party is crap and none of you can scumhunt.

Party should be me, sensei, yos, lowkey and skybird.

oh yes?

and as I said before! gj to lynch a scum who wants to get lynched and pressuring to day vig the sk - like that was only you who was suspecting him

and gj in breaking an obvious completly town party . you know about technics ? you know we should stay in party to upgrade them?

oh you do! your just trying to destroy all the chances of town to win...

~Rylai

He's not broken the party, if anything most people support it. Drixx, you, Sensai and DP is a group we support.
I'm reading the last few pages that you lot have produced and then I'll try and finalise my reread.
¬wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Hammer Gale

Bloody don't

yet

.
We have a week, Cerb has gone MIA and I really want his thoughts on stuff before anyone pulls of anything.
No I'm not saying we shouldn't lynch GWS/ABR, just hold off for a few days at least.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

No we have majority. The hood is filled with scum.

The fudge?
Drixx is town.
R&L+Sensei are town.
DP is also probably town.
Who exactly in that hood is scum?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

GWS, claim the flavour of each of your individual abilities.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

The type that's newer?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Thats crumpets.
I don't know about you lot but my role PM has quotes not separate move names. Let me check the flips to see if that also applies to them.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Ah they do.
Nevermind me

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Also Sensei not giving reads is something that is fine and we really shouldn't pressure him or any potential MC for them. Think about it.
¬wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

^Okay I don't believe that.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Like you literally started scum reading him because he had been following you then "turned".
And you claimed he was the best replacement we've had.
I really don't believe you that you had this read earlier.
You form reads, tunnel smash the scum ones into pulp and review the info. If you had been scum reading GWS you would have said so earlier.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Me neither.

TCC after the Vc is posted, you should vote ABR if it's not hammer.

I'm still reading up, but having just read day 1 again I'm calling BS that ABR was scum reading GWS Day 1. That's not how he plays.
¬wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

ABR is completly ignored for a while . this noise don't let me think about the claim ...

~Rylai

Hey FA?
Are you still pondering hanging me or can we work together now?
¬wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

After this post, I purposely hid my scumread.

Yeah exactly CC. I said he was the best replacement instead of saying I thought he was town. I chose my wording carefully.

You see someone scummy and you body-slam them with they way you hunt, you would have proposed a lynch on him besides CoolDog had you truly been suspicious.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

ABR is completly ignored for a while . this noise don't let me think about the claim ...

~Rylai

Hey FA?
Are you still pondering hanging me or can we work together now?
¬wgeurts

I was trying to see your reactions... not hanging you

~Rylai

And what did you get from testing me?
¬wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Just a quick post. Yeah, gale is probably still scum. We know the scum team has non factional killing roles, or the MC rules don't make sense. I'll look at his defense in more detail when i have time though.

Also mollie and titus are acting super weird right now.

Explain?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

After this post, I purposely hid my scumread.

Yeah exactly CC. I said he was the best replacement instead of saying I thought he was town. I chose my wording carefully.

You see someone scummy and you body-slam them with they way you hunt, you would have proposed a lynch on him besides CoolDog had you truly been suspicious.

That's such bullshit, I was scumreading Max and didn't capitalize until he turned on me which really made it obvious. Same with Gale.

That's not true, you pushed him before he turned on you and when he did you just pushed him harder.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

When Gale flips scum it will point a direct finger to TCC and Drunken Pirates.

You are not going to intimidate me into voting anyone.
If I vote someone, it's because I think they are scum or it will benefit town.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Mollie, cerb has been busy for a pretty long while and I'm unsure whether he's fully up-to-date or not.
¬wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

ABR, claim.
P-edit:
Maybe we can vote GWS.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Bwhahahah
That's the most ridiculous thing I have read in a long time.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Mollie can you read what GWS just posted?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

After this post, I purposely hid my scumread.

Yeah exactly CC. I said he was the best replacement instead of saying I thought he was town. I chose my wording carefully.

Then where did you start scum reading me exactly? I said I played to my Vig role on day 1. I wanted to appear scummy and still scum hunt. Thats how I have seen Vigs play. Remember Soren in the game that you are talking about?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Well, both skybird and itlepip claimed to have access to the roleblock+hated power, right? So...that's a reasonable explanation for why there wasn't a kill last night. I don't know if it's better or worse for them to claim who they targeted though. ABR has also lied about his role enough that perhaps scum just took a shot at him, figuring he was obvtown by his play and pushes on the two groupscum flips, plus mechanically had claimed a role worth killing/risking running into his bp?

I also don't understand why yosarian and abr are trying to be MC. Are you guys doubting R&L/Sensei?

Also, mollie, maybe Titus can work on some vca stuff with the wealth of information we have here, while you work on figuring things out in your own way? That way the two of you won't be butting heads?

-Cerb

pedit: hi itlepip. Do you think you should share who you targeted last night?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Today we are lynching Zuffy, DGB or even possibly Fluminator. Skybird is a possibility however I'd prefer there to be some flips as I've got some interesting interactions there.
VOTE: DGB
¬wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Also to those that still think klingon is scum do you honestly believe both less-experienced scum that have flipped bussed their partner this hardly?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Also, mollie.
For clarification; does your role confirm you are town via hard mod reveal or is your role simply provable?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Spoiler:

Please iso me for a fascinating overview of my Klingon scumreadd.

So for lurking and that BS reads list? But what do you think of Fluminator, DS and Max?

I am currently thinking more in terms of whose flip would reveal more info to us. And I think Flum and DS fall into that category. And the active lurkers should be Vigged imo.

PEdit: Okay then, hopefully we will make the right decision.

VOTE: Klingoncelt

It's really really hard to find games Max was town in. He seems to always be scum lol. It seemed relatively consistent across games with his manner of posting though.

@Max, what's the full reason you're going against ABR and your change of read on Drunk? Can you summarize it in a single post? I'm pretty sure you yourself said if ABR is town he's probably dead, so why not let him be for a day and let everything sort out? Especially if he promised scum? Why do you want his lynch today?
You said you suspect it's a scum gambit in 1867 so why not let him bus his partner first if you think that's what he wants to do?

Yeah, I roll scum a lot, like, an inordinate amount. Not newbie games, my longest game as town was one where I was busy for most of it and was able to contribute very little (and this is besides the shit that was actually going on in the game and the massive town apathy). I don't have too much town experience so Iim scumhunting by looking for players playing like my scumbuddies and myself in my scum games, and by looking for scum motivation behind posts.
Full reason I'm going against ABR? I can just grab quotes of myself for that one, since I've explained it. I'll do that in another post. But, the gist of it is, I was onboard with ABR town, then he made his big claim about how he absolutely must be MC or he'll die, at that he'd gotten to the point where he was towny enough to be nightkilled but not towny enough to be MC, and so he was worried about dying. That's what he claimed. After checking if ABR knew that an elected MC doesn't get kill immunity until the day after, and that he could still be killed that night, because he doesn't actually become MC until the next day... suddenly it wasn't making sense. ABR DID know, he was the one who told us. And after I realized that, I started examining his play with nightkills in mind. He wasn't playing like someone who didn't want to die.

Meaning his post saying that he either wanted to fly under the radar and avoid nks or be MC for immunity was a lie. A lie that was put there to push for MC, so that he and his important role wouldn't die. He can say he felt safe in his position as MC, but when he made those points, he did not. And no, I don't think he's trying to draw the nightkill as town. If he was, he wouldn't have played like this, he wouldn't have constructed this elaborate MC campaign and then subtly put in that he actually didn't care about nightkills.. ABR himself is saying that he's not one for big plans, that he wouldn't be able to push the lie for this long. I don't think he's making big plans anymore, I think he simply wants the MC, and all of the perks that come with it. Even with a team of full town, he still wins if he's MC. Even if he kills everyone that is voted MC after him and keeps the role, he wins. You can say that would guarantee his lynch in lylo, but I'm sure he's well aware of the argument that if he's town, scum could also kill every other elected MC and make him the guaranteed lynch. So really, he wouldn't be the guaranteed lynch at all.. there's still doubt about that. Him keeping the MC the whole game wouldn't be a scum claim.. he's pretending it would be.
Putting all of that conspiracy shit aside, he's still scum for the lying, the intimidation, the appeasement.. the only vote of his that isn't based on what he thinks town wants is his initial vote on the me, the player who 'turned against him'. (quoting ABR there, he actually said I turned against him because I stopped agreeing with him. Titus was right about me being his lapdog, if even ABR saw me as such) You can see it in how he approached my wagon... instead of just voting me and trying to get people to join, he wanted to keep the Skybird wagon under his thumb in case I didn't work out, by making a list of people who would move all at once.

Speaking of, I don't need to talk to Skybird anymore. I think she's town.

This got way out of hand and I've barely answered your other questions. My read on DP is one that I'm not nearly as sure about. I scumread that slot for seemingly ignoring everything I was saying, looking like she was purposely misinterpreting my posts, and for giving preference to players she knew over players she didn't. I started to turn around on it after mollie started posting more often, and that made me think it was more of a playstyle issue with Titus. I can see that she has similar disagreements with other players, and her posts aren't bothering me nearly as much. She still has that 'teaching' quality with some of the players that I was told I misinterpreting, and I'm inclined to think that I actually was.

I think I explained above why letting him be MC isn't a good idea, even if he promises his partner. Because he can 1) still break that promise (roleblocks or other scum interference) or 2) bus a partner. Bussing his partner would be ideal for us, yes. But just letting that happen isn't something I want to do. WHy? Because he's scum! His role is obviously powerful, as scum or town, and I'm sure his winning MC will give him something we don't want him to have, from an extra kill to anything else.. I'm not going to elect scum to a position of power because he might bus his partner... great, we got one scum, you know we need the whole team right? Plus, this course of action (let's wait, he'll give us his partner) and going with an ABR(tm) approved lynch today guarantees a town mislynch, and basically takes a D2 mislynch as a given, since we're all counting on the confirmed scum reveal on D3. It's moving our focus.
I don't like it. It's scum and I don't wnat him to be MC and I don't want to just walk into whatever he wants us to do. "Even if he's scum he'll give us his partner, so it's fine" is honestly lazy and it's playing right into his hands. Sure, maybe he will... but the fact that he promise that tells us he wants to do it! How is doing what scum wants a good idea?? He's not going to play against his wincon because we let him do what he wants!
I don't know what he's going to do, I can only guess. I don't know how far this plan goes or how he'll justify it, maybe he's playing off the cuff, I still don't want to do what he wants.

Let's make this happen.


VOTE: Gale

HEY ALL YOU CHUMPS, STOP VOTING BLUE/ROGUE ORDEAL AND TAKE CARE OF THIS SCUMMY AF LURKER

I'll explain more in about 2 hours.

You were the main person pushing me in the last 4 pages, wtf.

This is actually kind of a towny post. The only reason it wouldn't be is if Gale and pip are scum together.. which doesn't look likely.

I'd really like to see people not ruling others out as scum based on their role. Especially when Varsoon said he was going to fix that in his future games i.e. this one.

Yep.

UNVOTE: Rylai and Lina

Unvote DP for MC

Vote: Drixx for MC

Can you like, you know, actually post what you're thinking? I don't see your thoughts on this game at all in this post and, from what I remember if Firesong was your alt, you were a pretty vocal person.

-H

It's only Day 1 and I've been sick. Thanks for outing the alt, btw.

I unvoted Rylai and Lina because they're looking less scummy. It looks like it's between Skybird and Itlepip so I'm trying to decide between them. That's why I asked the question in post 2467.

Skybird does not need Itle to die to fulfill her wincon. Itle hasn't replied.

I think ABR is a Scum-leaning obnoxious diva, I don't trust him for MC. I think Drixx is Town.

Did your scumread on me just evaporate or something? You were calling me scum entirely because I voted you at one point. (i know it was based on the circumstances of the vote, but it's true that it was the only reason)

Well, you're wrong, and my town position will be solidified after the scum lynch.

Rylai, vote Skybird with us.

And what happens when I flip town? Will you admit to being scum? I'm telling you and everyone else, I am town.

Do you think ABR is scum? That's how I'm reading 'will you admit to being scum?'

Unvote; Vote: Klingon

I think this is a pretty good compromise regardless since both of the opposing wagons can agree on it. Or at least the two people who have butted heads the most.

Mollie, I'm here if you wanted to run through those reads. Please help before you leave

I agree.

VOTE: Klingon

I don't think itlepip and Skybird are both town based on their roles, but I think Skybird is town. Itlepip I'm not sure about, they're still posting while not doing anything worthwhile but that one post I quoted looked kind of towny. I'm less sure on that one, Klingon is better.

They both joined with crappy reasoning as the wagon shot up and left only when it started to die. Now, this looks to me like them pushing town. Though I'll admit I'm not the best at telling when scum are bussing/when not. Care to explain why you see it as that?
¬wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Also yeah;

MC:Sensei

.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Mollie, I'm looking at how they reacted towards Klingon. She just knee-jerk scum-read everyone who voted her aggressively which isn't your usual bus behaviour.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

No.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Sorry. You're in the party and I think you're town however I believe Sensei to be more so than you. If you can't give a compelling reason why you are a better option than Sensei then my vote stays there.
¬wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

In that case nobody should even consider going after DP until then. If anyone does; I'll snap at them.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Mollie, what is the flavour written above that part of your abilities?
Paraphrase if needed.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Fair point TCC. Can you vote me for MC?

you are already in the party can I ask why do you wanna be MC so badly?

cos I am sticking with confirmed town.

Sorry. You're in the party and I think you're town however I believe Sensei to be more so than you. If you can't give a compelling reason why you are a better option than Sensei then my vote stays there.
¬wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Also Sensei isn't confirmed until R&L ever flips but he is as good as conf-town right now.
I twitch every time people throw around that term.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I'll await Sensei's response to that.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

He revealed to us that he is becoming paranoid and stressed. He doesn't want to be MC for the rest of the game, even though he doesn't trust anyone 100% yet (those in the party are close to it).

This part is what I'm waiting for a response on.

Also going back to klingon, GWS also was on her start Day 2 again with yet again awful reasons and quits when it dies. This doesn't seen like bussing to me.
¬wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Mollie, what is the flavour written above that part of your abilities?
Paraphrase if needed.

why are you even asking this and what are you asking for exactly?

we are deplorable if that is what you are asking. we also forgot our mission as far as the very top unbolded goes. I am hoping we don't even get to 10 players I am hoping we can kill this game before that cos I love flawless victories. but yeah if we do will be confirmed.

Because everyone has flavour for each of their abilities, it adds to the validity of your claim. Innocent Child and your role seem like an odd match.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I can confirm that

MC : yosarion

this is the wisest choice after Sensei I guess

~Rylai

Eh, still want Sensei to post.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I've got a beautiful post on zuffy coming up.
Wicked getting flash MC wagoned with Max on it and him town reading max out of the blue strongly is pretty good stuff.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

He still counts DS as scum^

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Maxwell looks pretty townish;

Spoiler: Posts

I can't believe you've put me in with the players who haven't posted yet, and ZZZX. I think I'm actually crying.

But in all seriousness, I have about the same number of posts as Spiff, so I have to ask what your criteria are. If I quote posts and state whether I like them or not, do I get town points on your list? Put a read down on me, come on.

This conversation has me agreeing with one of you, and then the other says something and I want to agree with them instead. You both just sound like you know what you're talking about, makes things a bit difficult. It doesn't help that I'm used to thinking of Drixx and Cerb as the same slot. I'm very sorry guys, but you seemed to get along well enough that I never bothered to think of you two as separate players, so now I don't know which parts of your personality are which. Hopefully this game will remedy that.

I also feel pretty comfortable calling Diamond and ZZZX town...

Not a fan of the Fluminator bandwagon: the reasoning seems bad. Fluminator's explanation for claiming "not miller" makes perfect sense (assuming he can back it up with the evidence Low-key asked for) and I seriously doubt this is a Godfather gambit. The "not miller" claim seems like a slight town tell, actually.

Vote: Rylai and Lina

-gut says that Rylai's trying to earn town credit from her level of investment in this game
-don't like their Flum vote
-don't like this post;

I gave my reads about town reading someone and I'm asking questions to help me understand them better

everything. the way people townblocking. your idea about drixx , stuffs like that ...

~Rylai

-first line feels weird
-asks Sensei to comment on "the way people are town blocking" when, iirc, she was the only one trying to town block - she could have just asked "what do you think about me?"
-requests a town block and

then

asks for meta from two of the players she wants in the town block

I would appreciate if these questions (that I asked earlier) could also get answered;

I concur. I abhor lurking on principle, and this game's mechanics make it that much more undesireable.

Why is that?

what would be their intention to claim that they are not millers. Makes zero sense that is something that is not wanted in the game especially where is so much subject revolving around MC and the setup. Seems like a filler post to me. Scum is usually dont want to speculate their thoughts on the game subjects as its their job and most of them always end up with babbling posts.

Wouldn't scum want to appear like they're actually scum hunting, though?

Why are you acting this weird? your like "too scummy" to be the scum

It seems you just begged me to vote you ...

in that case here you go VOTE: Fluminator

Wouldn't "too scummy to be scum" be a reason

not

to vote for him?

flum said "I am not a miller" and then r&l claimed miller. it was a weird occurrence early on d1. it raised my eyebrows. sort of like the movie the body snatchers type of thing.

What could that 'weird occurrence' indicate?

DiamondSentinel - leaning town.
Klingoncelt - neutral. Agree that her reads list was bad, but that doesn't necessarily mean she's scum.
ErrantParabola - neutral. Unlikely that I'll develop a read on him before his post restriction is removed.
The Cool Cucumbers - neutral.
Drunken Pirates - slight town lean. I disagree with a lot of what they've been saying in-thread, but that doesn't mean they are scum, they at least seem to genuinely believe what they're saying
Yimmy - neutral.
Drixx - neutral.
Rylai and Lina - leaning town. Rylai's play early on felt off for some reason but I feel good about her after reading the last 20 pages or so, haven't seen anything particularly telling from Lina
Skybird - slight town lean. Gut.
Albert B. Rampage - strong town.
CooLDoG - slight town lean.
DrippingGoofball - neutral.
MaxwellPuckett - slight town lean. Some of his posts in the first 20 pages or so gave me town vibes - I quoted them. Looking forward to seeing more from him.
Yosarian2 - neutral. I'm honestly not sure why so many people are strong town reading him, because he's probably capable of everything that he's done here if he's scum. I agree with a lot of the opinions that he has given and kinda liked his reaction to Drixx's "I'll give you the rings when you town-tell". But he's still somebody that I'm cautious in reading.
Lowkey - strong town.
Fluminator - neutral. The desire for hammers seems like a null tell, I think anyone trying to paint that as scummy needs to rethink it. The "not miller" claim is a slight town tell if anything and I think anyone trying to paint

that

as scummy needs to rethink it. He might be town just because of his poorly justified bandwagon, but I'm not sure yet. I've correctly strong town read him in the past and it bothers me a little bit that I'm not reaching that same conclusion yet. Looking forward to seeing more from him too.
Sensei - slight town lean. I agree that his comment regarding the DP links might be a town slip. Haven't seen anything else particularly telling from him.
ZZZX - strong town. Almost entirely based on gut/meta that I'd struggle to articulate. He seems convincingly relaxed - doesn't feel like he's trying to earn town credit.
ArcAngel9 - scummy. She felt weirdly confident in her Flum vote. She's kinda flown under the radar (even when she was posting) and I haven't seen much from her to indicate genuine interest in scum hunting.

*I'm fully aware of the fact that this reads list lacks scum reads.

If I didn't care about anyone else's opinion, I would like an MC/party of me, ABR, Low-key, RL, and ZZZX.

Vote: ArcAngel9

MC: Albert B. Rampage

(More tomorrow)

I'll sheep mafia for now though

VOTE: cool dog

Why didnt you?

Why didn't I...suspect Max before I started to suspect Max? What?

Yes. That's exactly what I am asking. Why didn't you suspect max earlier?

fuck

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Had a post written up and internet fudged up reset so now I'm going to have to rewrite it

[The Cool Cucumbers]

fudge that.
You've got some of the quotes there.
Basically the first thing is Max instantly jumps onto MCing Wicked and Wicked town reads him without much explanation for it. Wicked also has a lot of post which are simply empty questions.
Zulfy is playing fuck all, not scum hunting, pushing crumpets reasons and is generally just being scummy.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Oh yeah, wicked's move ontp AA who we now know is town is crumpets as well. As well as Zulfy's move onto cooldog.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Hmm.

There's something weird going on.

itlepip RB+hated DS N1, and Zulfy N2.
Skybird claims to have never used this power.
GWS was scum, and had an enhanced version of the ability that itlepips flip showed, and gave permanent hated modifiers.
Yosarian claimed permanently hated on D2, and I believe R&L also claimed to have received a hated modifier. R&L, was yours also permanent, or was it temporary? Nobody else claimed to have used the power.

Three possible conclusions(well, 4?): Itlepip was redirected to R&L, assuming theirs was temporary;Skybird lied;There is yet another individual with the ability to make people hated(perhaps without the roleblocking? I don't believe R&L's claim specified that they were roleblocked either); R&L is lying. Yosarian could be lying, but given that we know a permanent hated modifier power exists, and there was no counterclaim, it's reasonable to assume he actually did have that modifier applied to him.

Today.
ZZZX claims to have been both hated and roleblocked. Zulfy made no mention of being hated or roleblocked.
Potential conclusions: Skybird is lying; itlepip was redirected to zzzx; there is a third roleblock+hated out there.

We kind of need this resolved. I don't see scum!skybird claiming to have not used this power, when there are no counterclaim, unless she is scum and her team roleblocked itlepip and used her power elsewhere, to make it look as though itlepip was using his power in an anti-town fashion and get him lynched. This isn't unreasonable, but does mean scum had two roleblockers.

Just, umm, thinking out loud. Had to organize it all to see if it all made sense afterwards, and it doesn't.

DP: I was under the impression that you became unkillable at 10 players. Are you saying you become mod confirmed town in thread, AND unkillable?

Drixx, when you say I need to obvtown now I assume you mean I need to solve the game? Is there something else you want me to do?

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

@Varsoon: The verbiage used in Energy Chain for itlepip and Dark Phoenix for GWS is different when talking about their roleblocks. For itlepip, it says they will be unable to take any actions tonight, and for GWS, it says their night actions will fail. The implication there is that GWS permanently roleblocked slots. Is that correct?

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

@Varsoon: The verbiage used in Energy Chain for itlepip and Dark Phoenix for GWS is different when talking about their roleblocks. For itlepip, it says they will be unable to take any actions tonight, and for GWS, it says their night actions will fail. The implication there is that GWS permanently roleblocked slots. Is that correct?

-Cerb

For the night that GWS targeted that player, yes.

So, the only mechanical difference between Energy Chain and Dark Phoenix is Dark Phoenix makes the target permanently hated, rather than temporarily? Just checking cause the wording is different.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

itlepip RB+hated DS N1, and Zulfy N2.

this wasn't what happened

we know we and yosarion are the permanently hated ones since yesterday

Italy was a claimed hated since day 1.

when did zulfy claimed such a thing ?! :/

Are you reading my post??? I was listing the actions those who have claimed to have access to giving out hated modifiers have stated they took.

Itlepip claimed the rb+hated power yesterday, and he claimed to have targeted DS N1. Right above my post, he stated that he roleblocked Zulfy last night.

Learn to read my fucking posts before you question my understanding of events.

Now, so you are claiming you are permanently hated, and so is yosarian. This means you are not claiming to have been affected by itlepip/skybirds claimed power, but by something else. So your hated modifier did not come from redirection from itlepip.

Did anyone else become permanently hated today?

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Oh, and itlepip wasn't claimed hated since D1. He claimed to be effectively hated, because he felt that Skybird would automatically hammer him if he got to l-1 so she would get his powers.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Fire is a daily action

Its adding to vote counts from sometime during the day phases

~Rylai

Fulm is right though, we did not see a third persom get set on fire today, which is interesting.

w8 a minute

your fire vote happened late as well. and ABR Fire vote happened somewhere middle of day 1.

the one who is casting it is checking this thread late

suggesting klingon / zulfy

~Rylai

or he/she is thinking it through which is unlikely becuase Fire voter seems scum

so it must be someone who hasn't checked yet - or it was a brief one

hmm

~Rylai

Correlation!=Causation
I don't see any reason to think that someone couldn't check in and then use their fire later in the day. Also, scum have had the entire night to plan their moves. It's absurd to think they didn't have a target in mind for their fire, or a planned time to use it. It's also not impossible that the fire is town. It's unlikely though, because we have KC claiming their own anonymous voting mechanism, and we've seen evidence of town hated modifier creation along with a similar power from scum.

Anyways, the point is someone checking in or not checking in is weak evidence that they control the fire vote.



Also, FA: This is a game of words. We talk a lot. If you can't be bothered to properly comprehend what other people are saying, you're doing something fundamentally wrong. People get things wrong sometimes, and I understand that, but I will not abide someone misinterpreting what someone else said. That spreads misinformation and doesn't help anyone but scum. Your stubbornness on this front is anti-town, and I suggest you consider whether or not there's any strategic merit to being obstinate about this and not just reading peoples posts properly.

That's the last thing I'll say on this matter,

-Cerb

pedit: hmm. Someone on our list of people who have displayed no town merit and need to be lynched joining us on the wagon of another? :-/

pedit x2: What do you mean DGB? Are you saying you should have both been lynched already because you haven't done much this game?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

pedit x2: What do you mean DGB? Are you saying you should have both been lynched already because you haven't done much this game?

Exactly. More him than me because he's scum and I'm town.

Got it.

also cerby if you don't leave rylai alone (confirmed town) and dgb space I am going to hunt you down and dropkick you in both kneecaps then I will put a pillow over your face and sit on it. I may even remove the pillow and fart in your face and then put the pillow back and sit on it some more. IRL

@ dgb - I think zzthing is town. I felt like his whole reaction to not seeing abr doc-ing sensei looked like he was all like "I CAUGHT SCUM WITH MY CLEVER PLAN MWUAHAHA". if you think abr is town there is a good chance zzthing is too. I think. his reaction to his night result seems genuine to me. I dunno but that is where my thinking is right now.

Sorry mollie, people doing dumb things and being stubborn about it isn't something I'll just let pass, but I did say that was the last thing I was going to say about that subject, so I won't be responding to her response, as much as I want to, because it won't do anything to move the game state forward.

I'm intrigued by you calling them conftown though. Are you using the "I'm bad at this game and conflate probtown and conftown" definition, or are you saying there is mod confirmation of their alignment somewhere? I get that based on play they're unlikely to be scum, but that's a far cry from somoene being conftown. Also, I didn't even attack DGB? I kinda think she should become useful or get lynched, considering that this game has slowed down notably compared to D1 and she's had 2 night phases to catch up and maintain perspective on the game, so the excuse of being overwhelmed has lost it's significance to me.

I 100% agree with your statement about zzzx, at least, about how his reaction to his watch result makes him look very town.

Oh, and Fluminator: I gave you guys vague reads yesterday, well, wgeurts reads, but I agree'd with all of them at the time. I mean, if you really want I can give you a shitty ass "I didn't put any time into this" rough approximation of my position on people, but it certainly won't be up to the standard Drixx and yourself seem to expect from me within 24h of day start during the work week.

...

Fuck it. I'll grab the playerlist and make some notes off the top of my head while I work. brb in a bit.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Klingoncelt - Done fuck all, but aspects of the wagon on her on D1, most notably the scum involvement on it with opportunistic joining without giving much reason, makes me consider it more like than not that she's town. However, GWS acted outside expectations in joining MP's wagon when there was no decent reason to on D1(though he did have cause to want to be lynched, but still...it's better to just not be lynched and have a trump for endgame), so that makes me uncertain on whether or not I can actually give any town credit to KC for GWS' presence on her wagon.
Drunken Pirates (Titus & Pirate Mollie) - You guys are the worst things to figure out. Like Yosarian has been saying, your obstinate protection of scum slots is suspiciou, but being wrong doens't mean you're scum, and you're saying you were suspicious all along, but Titus wasn't. I don't know if I can believe that. It would be nice if someone who was in the party yesterday could confirm that yesterday the mollie head of this hydra expressed sentiments which match up to what she says she thought. It doesn't really make sense that you'd blindly sheep Titus' reads, without ever mentioning any of your own thoughts. Also, your choice of technique doesn't wholly make sense, but whatever, I can buy your explanation on it.
Drixx - useless. Mechanically likely town, he's done very little in thread otherwise other than try to provoke me to put a bunch of time that he, of all people, should know I don't have, into analyzing this game. Can someone in the party reassure me that he's actually been useful and shared thoughts and analysis and stuff somewhere?
Zulfy Wickedestjr - *shrug* forgettable. Other than just parroting what wgeurts has said, about the MC wagon on wicked and scum interactions with them, I dont' have a lot to say because they haven't done anything memorable, other than not claim to be hated today. Can you confirm that you are hated today Zulfy?
Rylai and Lina (Shiro & Frozen Angel) - Umm. Nothing alignment indicative in their play comes to mind from the top of my head. I don't even know why I even gave them any credit in my last post, for some reason I thought they had done something to warrant being considered town, but they haven't done shit. Oh. Meh, I guess it's unlikely they would "clear" sensei as scum, unless they were scum together, and it's even more unlikely that, as scum together, they would do something which would get both their slots killed.
Skybird - I'm torn here. GWS was clearly waiting for some vig on his team to come save the day for him and "prove" his claim, no reason why he'd claim to have a vig if he wouldn't have been able to pretend to shoot someone while someone else activated a power to do so. You're the most likely candidate for having a power, simply because of the symmetry between yourself and itlepip, HOWEVER, based on his role, you couldn't have had his power, and I don't know if it makes any sense for there to be two vig powers in the pool of abilities you guys could have received. You would also of course need to have some other mechanism for gaining powers beyond the one you've claimed, and needed to use that mechanism to gain the other vig power in the pool. :-/ It seems improbable. Anyways, everything else about you requires a reread. The connection between yourself and itlepip makes me want to think you're scum, but that's too much setup spec without enough support in the game.
Albert B. Rampage - Hard pushed 2 scum lynches. Unlikely to be scum. Everything else about his play makes me hate him and think he's incredibly anti-town, but that's trumped by the scum lynches.
DrippingGoofball - Need more. Nearly a policy lynch at this point because I don't want this slot anywhere close to a LYLO, but there is nothing objectively scummy about their play, and I don't really do policy lynches.
Yosarian2 - Generally reasonable and very town play and posting. The paranoia over being put into auto-lynch territory and the campaign for MC are really crappy though. So yeah, town, but urging suboptimal play for bad reasons imo.
Lowkey (Lowell & Hinduragi) - Stuff? Thought the slot was town by play most of the game, don't remember why at all.
Fluminator - I HATE the interactions you had with GWS yesterday. He specifically called out asking you and someone else to unvote(I don't remember who), and then you came back in and took the hammer, thereby granting yourself power which you refuse to inform the town of(I'm actually okay with you refusing to tell everyone what you gained, although given the nature of the role you hammered, if what you gained is in any way related to what he could do, you should definitely tell town now because there's enough confusion going on about all that crap.). Like, why did he ask you to unvote in particular? If you're town, he wouldn't WANT you to unvote, because if he was going to go down, it's better if he goes down without giving town more power. Maybe he just didn't think of that, but it's really really fucking shady. Other than that, you're pretty whatever.
Sensei - Eh, probtown for the same reasons R&L are. *shrug*
ZZZX - Attempt to "gotcha" ABR was super town. That's about it. Had some wacky plan to try to catch a number of scum on D1. Ridiculous plans are kinda more likely town than scum? Maybe?

There ya go fluminator. There are some reads in there. If a read isn't clear, then it's null. I need to iso people and reread a lot of stuff though, because I don' thave a lot of confidence in any of the reads.

-Cerb

pedit:

Really not sure what to make of having my second scum possibility just jump on the zuffy wagon with me.

Also FA, why so aggressive?
Cerb is just trying to clarify a misunderstanding, not attack you.
Also Mollie, thoughts on flum?

Hydra pickup.

Perminent. Damn missed that one.

Hmm. So a second permanent hated giver, with confirmation from another slot, except this one targeted someone who could have been understandably read to be scum, rather than the more likely to be town targets from yesterday. Skybird therefore doesn't even enter into this picture, other than confirming her power, but confirming she can temporarily make people hated doesn't confirm that she can't permanently make them hated.

Oh, and Fluminator: I gave you guys vague reads yesterday, well, wgeurts reads, but I agree'd with all of them at the time. I mean, if you really want I can give you a shitty ass "I didn't put any time into this" rough approximation of my position on people, but it certainly won't be up to the standard Drixx and yourself seem to expect from me within 24h of day start during the work week.

...

Fuck it. I'll grab the playerlist and make some notes off the top of my head while I work. brb in a bit.

-Cerb

I get the sense of panic or you wouldn't have interpreted that as "reads list right now!"
But yes, please do that.
And then spend your time on this game on getting reads on players.

Fluminator, you are the second person to demand shit from me that I simply don't have the time to provide. What you might consider panic is irritation at demands that I invest more time than you realize on this game. Making this list took away time from work shit that I need to get done, but I know I'm busy this weekend up until Sunday, and then I'd be back to work, so I doubt I'd take the time to do it at any other point, and I do have thoughts to share, so whatever, has to be done sometime. The frustration is directed way more at Drixx than you though, because he should know better. He knows how much time I spend on stuff when i want to get accurate reads, and he knows it's the middle of the work week, and he just generally knows that I don't have the time to analyze to a level anywhere close to what I expect from myself.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Also FA, why so aggressive?
Cerb is just trying to clarify a misunderstanding, not attack you.

you sure? I don't think so. He was exactly attacking me - and trying to show like im not reading the game.

Rylai and Lina (Shiro & Frozen Angel) - Umm. Nothing alignment indicative in their play comes to mind from the top of my head. I don't even know why I even gave them any credit in my last post, for some reason I thought they had done something to warrant being considered town, but they haven't done shit. Oh. Meh, I guess it's unlikely they would "clear" sensei as scum, unless they were scum together, and it's even more unlikely that, as scum together, they would do something which would get both their slots killed.

fuck off mate I did 10000 more townier stuff than you.

your fucking read list is just mirroring others read and bundling it in a very beautiful way. These are not your reads. The only thing which is new is casting doubt about me and Sensei and calling some people useless.

Your better than this cerb

~Rylai

I told you guys it was shit FA. It's 100% what I remember of the game of the top of my head with absolutely no fact checking at all, coupled with some things I've mentioned to wgeurts or thought of but not mentioned. Anyways, You guys haven't done *shit* that sticks out in my mind, at all. You're basically non entities spewing flavor crap all over the place, whose only significance comes from conftowning sensei whenever you flip. All your effort and thoughts appear to be wholly flavor based in the game, which doens't mean anything. It's almost completely worthless, and nothing of it is alignment indicative. You saying you've 10000x townier than me DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING because I haven't been actively engaged in actually figuring the game out in thread. I'm well aware that I've been useless, but you certainly haven't been useful beyond what I mentioned.

Like, seriously, give me *one* thing you've done this game that actually has some fucking merit. *shrug* You freaked out over ABR's rune claim, because it didn't match the flavor. Whoopdy fucking do? Sensei's play is town beyond the whole thing with you, but IT DOESN'T MATTER because he's conft fucking town when you die, if you flip town. So, yeah, if you die and flip scum I'll put more than .000000000001% of my energy into figuring out Sensei.

Also, you have NO fucking idea what i'm capable of, you have no experience with me outside of one fucking game. People who don't know me don't get to expect anything from me.

Just...please stop interacting with me in this fashion, okay? Like seriously? Give me fucking facts that are actually correct if you want to argue with me, don't spout a fucking opinion you have.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Snip

Thank you for the long post.
Some comments:

I understand the feeling of being busy and this game taking time. It's why I usually only ever do 1 game at a time. (6 engineering classes, job hunting, and a couple other commitments.) But you need to consider changing your playstyle if you don't pick up reads as the game goes by. You shouldn't have to take a super long time to remember and list your reads if you've been following the whole game.
Your read on Drixx was weird saying, "why is he asking me to analyze the game? He should know I don't got time for that" Instead of wasting time arguing about semantics with Rylay, (or whatever you were arguing, I already forget so it couldn't have been too worthwhile), spend your limited time on catching scum and trying to read people as you talk to them.

Two, about your blurb on me. Pip knows what my power so there's really no reason to tell the entire town what it is yet. It would be nothing beneficial.
And if there is one person responsible for giving me the hammer, it's your hydra partner. I told him to vote Gale so I could hammer. He did and I hammered. The fact he's not town reading me today is really bizarre.

Here's the thing flum: while I'm at work, it doesn't take much time at all to shoot off a response to something someone has said. Diving back into the thread though, and rereading stuff and isoing people and all that shit...those are things I can't do while I'm at work. There is *no* lost time with regards to solidifying reads in these interactions, because this time simply couldn't have been spent on going through the thread. I also try to only do one game at a time, the only other game I'm in I'm only in because it's Drixx's first time modding here and I had to go support him.

And, it doesn't take me much time at all to "remember and list my reads." I simply have a higher standard for what I consider a solid read than most people here do. It REQUIRES analysis. What I put out there is probably enough detail to form a read on someone for most people, but it's not good enough for me. There are too many other factors to consider, especially in a game with as many moving parts as this one. You're mistaking my desire to form reads strong enough that I'm willing to push or defend someone, for me not picking up reads throughout the game.

My hydra partner expressed his scum read of you to me in between giving you the hammer and when the flip happened yesterday, before I pointed out the weirdness of GWS specifically asking you to unvote, so yeah...though I do admit I don't have any idea why he gave the hammer to you since he was scumreading you at the time. *shrug*

-Cerb

pedit: yeah stuf fwas said, I shall read it now.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Klingoncelt - Done fuck all, but aspects of the wagon on her on D1, most notably the scum involvement on it with opportunistic joining without giving much reason, makes me consider it more like than not that she's town. However, GWS acted outside expectations in joining MP's wagon when there was no decent reason to on D1(though he did have cause to want to be lynched, but still...it's better to just not be lynched and have a trump for endgame), so that makes me uncertain on whether or not I can actually give any town credit to KC for GWS' presence on her wagon.

Looking back it kinda feels more like the wagon reaching a tipping point and scum scrambling to bus.
Like gale and max hopping on back to back feels weird otherwise because as scum they'd probably think "well this klingon mislynch is propped up nicely no need to really help and give anymore scum traction than needed."

At least that's how I'm interpreting it in my head right now. Certainly doesn't make me think she's any more town at all.
Klingon really, really needs to die far before lylo anyway.

Cerb I'm trying to engage you on your reads. You're ignoring that in favor of a flame war with rylai.

There's nothing in the first quote above that requires any sort of response from me? I see nothing that indicates you have a question for me. I expressed a buncha uncertainty, saying there was *one* thing which made KC look more likely to be town than scum, you said you interpreted that same thing some other way, alright. Not sure what sort of response you're expecting? What you're referencing requires that I go iso varsoon, look at the wagons and find exactly the point in the wagons at which Gale and MP voted and see if what you're saying makes sense or not. Without doing that, I don't have anything to say about your response to that particular snippet of thought from me.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

FFS

I'll be ignoring you from now on

thats healthier

~Rylai

Agreed! ^^

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Oh, Mollie: You haven't clarified what exactly you're saying is confirmable about your role. That's what people keep asking about. We hit 10 players, and something changes about your role. Everyone gets that.

Nobody knows if that change is 1) alignment indicative, or 2) going to be presented in thread.

If you try to say that becoming BP+lynchproof at 10 players, EVEN IF YOU ARE CONFIRMED TO THE ENTIRE GAME TO BE BOTH BP AND LYNCHPROOF AND STILL HAVE A VOTE AND ALL YOUR POWERS, is going to confirm you as town in a game with built in mechanics to allow any slot to gain kills which can bypass BP, and a mechanic for removing passive protections, I'm going to call you an idiot. So please don't do that. I like you mollie, but don't be an idiot.

-Cerb

pedit: Sensei, did you miss the part where I said fuck it, this is throwaway bullshit effortless reads that are nowhere near the level of conviction I need in my reads to actually care about them? Seriously, i said that. I was like "Oh yeah, I can just give you a list of my current thoughts on people and stuff, but it's going to be shit and I won't care about it because I'll have put no effort into determining if I'm actually right", and until I know I'm most likely right, I really don't care.

I do not have the time right now to actually reread things and determine if I think most slots are town or scum. Period. I can point at a couple things one way or the other, but nothing definitive.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Frozen Angel, stop this useless rant with Cerb. I've shot a message at him saying this isn't helping anyone.
Talk to me if you want to speak.
Cerb is not misrepresenting you, he is giving what he thinks of your slot and what he deems to be the truth.
¬wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

For you sensei:

pedit x2: What do you mean DGB? Are you saying you should have both been lynched already because you haven't done much this game?

Exactly. More him than me because he's scum and I'm town.

Got it.

also cerby if you don't leave rylai alone (confirmed town) and dgb space I am going to hunt you down and dropkick you in both kneecaps then I will put a pillow over your face and sit on it. I may even remove the pillow and fart in your face and then put the pillow back and sit on it some more. IRL

@ dgb - I think zzthing is town. I felt like his whole reaction to not seeing abr doc-ing sensei looked like he was all like "I CAUGHT SCUM WITH MY CLEVER PLAN MWUAHAHA". if you think abr is town there is a good chance zzthing is too. I think. his reaction to his night result seems genuine to me. I dunno but that is where my thinking is right now.

Sorry mollie, people doing dumb things and being stubborn about it isn't something I'll just let pass, but I did say that was the last thing I was going to say about that subject, so I won't be responding to her response, as much as I want to, because it won't do anything to move the game state forward.

I'm intrigued by you calling them conftown though. Are you using the "I'm bad at this game and conflate probtown and conftown" definition, or are you saying there is mod confirmation of their alignment somewhere? I get that based on play they're unlikely to be scum, but that's a far cry from somoene being conftown. Also, I didn't even attack DGB? I kinda think she should become useful or get lynched, considering that this game has slowed down notably compared to D1 and she's had 2 night phases to catch up and maintain perspective on the game, so the excuse of being overwhelmed has lost it's significance to me.

I 100% agree with your statement about zzzx, at least, about how his reaction to his watch result makes him look very town.

Oh, and Fluminator: I gave you guys vague reads yesterday, well, wgeurts reads, but I agree'd with all of them at the time.

I mean, if you really want I can give you a shitty ass "I didn't put any time into this" rough approximation of my position on people, but it certainly won't be up to the standard Drixx and yourself seem to expect from me

within 24h of day start during the work week.

...

Fuck it. I'll grab the playerlist and make some notes off the top of my head while I work. brb in a bit.

-Cerb

For you Sensei. The bolded bit.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Sensei, Cerb is busy and doesn't have time right now for what he would like to do. Push us for our play, but I'm not letting you go after us for that.
If you are blind and can't see that I'm literally giving this game most of my attention and only see my partner who is short on time you need to really look at our posts again.
¬wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I'm not sure how a disclaimer that's pretty much equal to "the entire list of things I'm about to say is entirely hedge" keeps you from talking about what you said or at least initiating some kind of discourse.

But, w/e. Trying to work with you at all is fruitless.
Let's just lynch em.

...

You didn't address any of the points I made in my response, other than to boil it down to the part where I said everything I said is pretty much whatever.

I said I can't say much more about KC without actually looking at the wagons and determining if your interpretation is valid. How is that a response that doesn't allow any discourse?

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Frozen Angel, stop this useless rant with Cerb. I've shot a message at him saying this isn't helping anyone.
Talk to me if you want to speak.
Cerb is not misrepresenting you, he is giving what he thinks of your slot and what he deems to be the truth.
¬wgeurts

as I said I'm trying to ignore his noise.

whats your read on lowkey ?

after reading more stuff I think It can be the fire voter. timing and the fire vote matches. and that is the only slot who hasn't posted today. as its more likely to see Fire vote as scum indicative I guess they talked about it last night. so the fact its not yet casted means something is wrong

and my suspicion is Lowkey slot.

whats your read on this theory ?

~Rylai

Lowkey is town.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

What theory are you referencing to FA?
¬wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Oh, Mollie: You haven't clarified what exactly you're saying is confirmable about your role. That's what people keep asking about. We hit 10 players, and something changes about your role. Everyone gets that.

we will be confirmed in thread and we will be indestructible.

I have said this like 3 times now. I am done until you pple get better cos jesus fucking christ y'all are being terrible.

I've gotten better!

[The Cool Cucumbers]

the lowkey is fire vote owner.

chasing the VC's and the fact that if Fire votes are scum aligned people who are already posting today can't be the fire vote owner or they could already cast it.

plus his stanse in game is not promising

~Rylai

What is preventing people from holding onto the fire vote while posting to delude people?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Lowkey is town.

Your ignored

I'm talking with people who don't call their reads shit and run away.

~Rylai

That was me.
I can make one of my infamous walls on lowkey explaining why I think he's town if that helps.
¬wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Oh, Mollie: You haven't clarified what exactly you're saying is confirmable about your role. That's what people keep asking about. We hit 10 players, and something changes about your role. Everyone gets that.

we will be confirmed in thread and we will be indestructible.

I have said this like 3 times now. I am done until you pple get better cos jesus fucking christ y'all are being terrible.

Mollie, stop being dumb. What you said is dumb. You might *think* what you're saying is speaking clearly, but it's NOT. Say "Once we have 10 players or less in thread, I will be mod confirmed town in thread, and we will be xproof, yproof, and zproof"

That's what you're saying there, bu tyou're not saying it explicitly. Be fucking explicit. Semantics are important. If you're making a claim that certain things will be true at a certain point, tell us what those exact fucking things are, or tell us it would be anti-town to be more precise. Don't say "you guys are bad and should just give us the benefit of the doubt on our claim"

R&L: I always sign my posts. If a post is unsigned, it's from wgeurts, so you can ignore him if you want, but if you mean to just ignore me, that's how you know which posts to ignore.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Also yos forgot to mention - and this is the most intriguing thing from DP yesterday imo. Is that mollie explicitly told titus to not defend gale in thread.
And the rationale for that would be that it would make it worse for gale.
I'm sorta interested to hear mollie go into that more now that gale has flipped and everything.

That's quite interesting. I don't know why scum!them would explicitly say that in the c hat you guys are part of though, ya know? Couldn't she have just messaged titus privately to get that point across, without creating that associative?

Did you have any opinion on anything else I posted Sensei, or have you just kinda decided nothing I say is worth interacting with at this point?

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Oh, also, Sensei: Did DP make posts or anything backing up the assertions they're making about their hydra dissonance with regards to their reads on those slots? And is Drixx actually doing something in your guys' topic? If he thinks you guys are all town, he should REALLY be infodumping to you about a shitload of stuff he's taken notes on etc, and he hasn't been present in thread in any notable way, so....yeah. His lack of content concerns me, and would be a big deal, if I didn't know he had the party to chat with...but if he's not doing that, please tell me.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

He's talking in adventure chat, but mostly about mechanical stuff, not about his reads. I want to hear Drixx's reads as well.

I assume he's trying to create a guaranteed town victory situation assuming certain slots are town? Hmm. That's pretty normal, but complete lack of reads with two scum flips and associatives is slightly concerning. I'm sure he'll get around to it today though.

Right Drixx?

Right?

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

No one here is intending to personally hurt you Mollie. It is genuine confusement of your role. Maybe take a small break and come back. I know the feeling
<snip some off topic stuff>

Seconded. Mollie, I don't ever mean to hurt anyone personally. I'm sorry that I've made you feel badly enough that you'd say what you said to me.

Is there like, something else in this game we can talk about for the time being? :-/

Yosarian/flum/anyone else, but you two are around...care to hazard a guess as to why you ZZZX was permanently hated today, rather than scum stacking more hated modifiers on yourself or R&L? Is it possible that this hated+roleblock thing is actually town? Or(and this is a really weird idea, given that we didn't even have a regular kill last night, and Varsoons dislike for multi-ball(I don't consider a SK+groupscum to be proper multiball) there are multiple scum teams? It doesn't seem reasonable for one scum team to have two individuals with that power on it. It also doesn't seem reasonable for any scum team to not continue stacking those hated modifiers on whoever they want, and force the town to move the MC as they dictate?

I guess they could just be spreading it around to all the slots they feel are least likely to get lynched, so there's a greater chance when lylo comes they'll be able to get an auto win? But, still..why put it on ZZZX then? There are more widely townread slots to afflict...

-Cerb

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Pretty sure I made it very clear that if you're town to NOT give anyone else hated status and anyone who claims to have done that is getting powerlynched.

Yeah, but...people are dumb sometimes. :-/ Do you think scum had two people who could do that? There was no limitation in GWS' role, like nothing saying he couldn't target the same person as another member of his team with his power. I just don't know why scum wouldn't put it both on the same person on N1. The extra utility of blocking an extra person, assuming it would be duplicates of the exact same power, doesn't outweight making someone get lynched at L-2. I mean...just keep doin that and don't kill those people and even though you might conftown them, town can't let them near lylo, so you start forcing mislynches out of paranoia.

I guess this is all stupid speculation that doesn't do much to help us find scum though. I'm just trying to figure out if scum would hate themselves to garner town cred, or if town would use the power and not claim it out of fear of getting "powerlynched".

Oh, also Sensei, regarding the argument ABR made for why he should be MC rather than you: If you stop being MC it won't make people less inclined to listen to you. That comes from the probtown effect of having R&L claim you are conftown to them, and it won't be going away even if you are MC.

-Cerb

pedit: Hi ABR. Any thoughts to share?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

ABR. So political man. lol. Stirring speeches and all.

Flum: So, basically, you DO think it's likely that we're looking at a single scum team that had two slots with the ability to make people permanently hated who chose to spread out the modifiers?

itlepip: Being stumped means instead of going to the dead thread you get to be conftown and push as hard as you fucking want on anyone who you think is actually scum, don't get disengaged like most stumps do, come play the game AND FIND SCUM.

-Cerb

pedit: She is indeed V/LA. I should have mentioned that when you were talking about getting her to talk today. She's busy killing aliens for the good of humanity! ^^

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Oh, also, Sensei: Did DP make posts or anything backing up the assertions they're making about their hydra dissonance with regards to their reads on those slots? And is Drixx actually doing something in your guys' topic? If he thinks you guys are all town, he should REALLY be infodumping to you about a shitload of stuff he's taken notes on etc, and he hasn't been present in thread in any notable way, so....yeah. His lack of content concerns me, and would be a big deal, if I didn't know he had the party to chat with...but if he's not doing that, please tell me.

-Cerb

He's talking in adventure chat, but mostly about mechanical stuff, not about his reads. I want to hear Drixx's reads as well.

I assume he's trying to create a guaranteed town victory situation assuming certain slots are town? Hmm. That's pretty normal, but complete lack of reads with two scum flips and associatives is slightly concerning. I'm sure he'll get around to it today though.

Right Drixx?

Right?

-Cerb

Funny enough I am working on a plan to push the town win probability as close to 100% as possible. That just seems like a basic thing town players should do.

You misrepresenting me in all your posts is really irritating: I clearly referred to today being day 3, which is a two week time period. You trying to manipulate that into me demanding you post immediately while you're at work, when you damn well know me referring to it being day 3 is not that is basically you intentionally misrepresenting me, and you know it.

And as I just told someone in the party chat: I'm not going to dump my notes and thoughts here and give you something to play off of to appear town. Thus far you don't line up with the town Cerb I know well. There is now enough information that I expect you to obvtown this day phase. You know I suspect you obviously, so this misrep and attempt to goad me into giving you stuff to play off of and make it harder for me to be confident in what I tell the party about my read on you ... it counts against you.

Drop the misrep bullshit, and drop the goading. Both are irrational, and when you start posting irrationally then you know how I'm going to interpret it.

Oh Drixx. There we go. Standard Drixxy paranoia. Remember, man, the things other people do in the game aren't all about you, or about them trying to manipulate you in some way. I don't want you to post your shit in thread, that was yosarian and ABR who said that. i just wanted to make sure you were actually doing stuff and actively sharing stuff IN YOUR PT with people. I don't want shit out here, why would I want that? 'twould be anti-town as fuck, and you know scum!me wouldn't be dumb enough to make an obviously anti-town request of you.

Now, with regards to the misrepresentation thing: You said "obvtown or die" and placed a vote on me. Sensei also placed a vote on me. I'm aware that you're both in the party, have both been on adventures, and that sensei already had a double vote even before going on any adventures. In the event that you were to manage to convince the entire party to vote for me, using any potential double voting you may have acquired, those two votes represent as much pressure to produce shit as if I were at L-1. There was a clear imperative of produce asap in the verbiage you used, combined with the actions you took. I'm not misrepping you at all. A request to do shit since it's day 3, without the threat or the vote, would have sufficed and would have had the same effect, except it wouldn't have felt like an unreasonable demand.

I mean...I'm not dumb Drixx. You voted me yesterday. The statement itself would have carried sufficient weight.

-Cerb

pedit: can we please stop the pissing contest about who deserves the most credit for catching scum? Sensei, you never responded to me about the whole idea that Scum!mollie probably wouldn't tell Titus to not defend their partner gale in a public venue when they had private avenues available. Do you think I'm right? Do you think I'm wrong? Do you think they may have done that deliberately, because of the thought process players like myself would have upon hearing about that exchange(or did that happen in thread and I just missed it?)