Micro 381 - 999 Mafia (Nonary Game Complete)

[Gammagooey]

hihi

sup gamma
can you please town it up so we can lynch actual scum or scum it up so we can lynch you? do one of the two idc which it depends on your alignment tho

im gonna go with probably maybe.

i'll read stuff after work.

[Gammagooey]

oh pretend i said something witty about alts too btw

[Gammagooey]

went through the first 10 pages and found recks claim later

akane felt a bit gutscum in one of her early posts but its entirely because she was making an argument similar to how i had as scum recently even though i made that argument knowing that it was pretty similar to how i'd react as town and i think that's not actually a scumtell and its dumb and the only reason im even bothering typing this is so other people can maybe have a better read on me

bins was a bit quiet early game, 34 looked fairly town imo but pretty much everyone just feels like another player and not particularly scummy, quil seemed a bit pushier than what i'd expect from him with his early case against reck but it's not a substantial thing and probably looks the least town to me so far

reck doesn't die today 'cause claim

probably done reading for the night so i can play more danganronpa so more tomorrow

[Gammagooey]

it's post #81

[Gammagooey]

godamn this game is dense and this conversation is vaguely irritating so have some different noise.

-bins' earlyish posts (like after rvs but before akane reck clusterfuck happens) look real genuine to me

-akane looks pretty town for her reck push and the confidence and followthrough she puts into it (again, looks genuine)

-when i was skimming i thought reck claimed today and not yesterday which is eeh, don't like the aggression against akane for not giving the meta when it DOES exist, he fakeclaimed a guilty on fate d1 in one of spyrex's wizard games and then took it back after fate got lynched and survived as scum cuz 'scum would never be that ballsy', and was part of the hydra with fara when they fakeclaimed vengeful townie and unclaimed it in lylo to win
i still don't think i aaactually want to lynch him today because him being a raging cunt in mafia games isn't an alignment tell for him and i don't think it's particularly unlikely that he'd do *this game* as town, unless deadlines coming up real soon im probably gonna not care about him for a few days until i finish reading and see him posting in real-time a bit

-not mafias responses around page 12 and 13 look fairly hard to come up with as quickly as he did as scum, and saying that he's PoEing the game that early doesn't seem like something that would come from scum

-Grib seems kind of backgroundy and gut-bad

-don't really see anything from parama that stands out as likely town or scum, he's very slightly townie imo just for not being a bit intentionally thick like he was in metamafia but i don't actually have any confidence in my ability to read him so whatever

-quil's thing in early game i already mentioned and he hasn't really done anything up to the point i've read up to
- probably gonna read over his interactions with my replacee later actually so i can see how this thing is currently happening
-haha, bullet points
-POW
-oh and for anyone who wants to compare junk i'm saying to context i think i got to around page 25-27 but i stopped reading particularly carefully and did a lot more skimming after about page 19

-ahahahaHAHAHA like 10 ninjas i'll read those eventually
-yeah being slightly weirder than usual this game seems like it might make it a bit more fun
-deal

[Gammagooey]

have one more opinion

talking about me is boring for like another 24 hours assuming there are no deadline complications i'm not currently bothering to look up

talking about gribs is interesting

and talking about let's saaaay [people who are not reck]'s reads on akane and quilford are interesting

parama help this game be interesting you can do it

[Gammagooey]

gut things with gribs are mostly tone i think

like to me it just seems a little more incredulous or condescending at times than I think is the norm and those are some of the bigger emotional things that come out more while being scum

ninjathing- also to be

fair

not fair but Something i've been busy with a pretty decent amount of horseshit recently, kinda glad i missed it at first because it would have bit into a lot of other shit despite 999 being a real fun game and pie being a real good person to....gamejoin? a word similar to that.

[Gammagooey]

oh i might actually have to change my mind on gribs for a thing that may resemble a reason

if you can pretend i never made this post and respond to the first one anyway that'd be pretty cool and interesting though

[Gammagooey]

okay im going to rephrase a thing here

in the event of my lynch and <obligatory statement that says i'm flipping town that has no actual bearing on my alignment in this game whatsoever> the quilford-reck argument hour(s of clusterfuck) will predictably carry on to the next day and be a general pile of nigh-unreadable garbage and will probably be a major event in the outcome of the game with very little other reads that i can see going on beside that

and that's dumb, and shouldn't be a thing that happens, and godamn do i just not care about these arguments when talking about reads of other players in the game would be so much better for actually reading peoples alignments.

so how about those opinions of gribs and akane you guys. (reck you can skip akane unless its changed significantly in the last 12 pages)

[Gammagooey]

and yeah im probably missing a real big chunk of actual content still that probably has some opinions on them

don't care, details on them is a lot more helpful to me and i'd guess to other people here in the long run too

[Gammagooey]

heyyy now, being at l-1 on replacing in seemed like it deserved some actual content instead of me just going 'lolgut' and then immediately getting lynched because i was/am too lazy to read the entire game at once because im really im not going to do that right now

also more importantly saying that it's bad because i did it as opposed to it being bad because one or more of the reads i posted being bleh or the post being shady in some other way is boring and you should effort a bit more to avoid being boring

its bad ya' know

[Gammagooey]

i mean i could but im not going to

im the default lynch anyway and im just now actually putting effort into the game, the deadlines not til tuesday and i really haven't done much readable stuff yet so i feel hammering me at this point would be pretty dumb and also sketchy

also im gonna be around for a bit longer so at minimum i'm waiting til i go to sleep since if someone is about to hammer they can just ask for a claim while im still around

jesus fucking ballchrist ninjas one second

[Gammagooey]

well i guess if jackal claimed already i guess i can even though it won't matter for alignment junk at all

if he did then just copy the words 'yes jackal claimed' from this sentence and i'll claim but if he hasn't and it's a dumb complicated gambit dont do that please

hi several more ninjas

[Gammagooey]

vanilla townie

[Gammagooey]

can we have arguments that matter please

yes people could have gotten a very slight towntell on me if things happened differently but they didn't and quil probably would have ignored it anyway because it's not a strong towntell at all and now everyone can shrug and talk about interesting things instead

like bins hi how do you feel about gribs and akane
from what i can see with reck+quil it's not actually important until game-day tomorrow at the earliest but probably not then either so shrug

[Gammagooey]

actually no this is even more dumb

i MADE a post reacting to that by saying i'd rather not claim and i think it's kind of clear i wouldn't have bothered making that if i had seen the ninjas right after before starting to type it and its long enough to point pretty strongly to that

if you want a reaction then fucking use it instead of bitching about gone possibilities

[Gammagooey]

siiigh

[Gammagooey]

so i think i'd actually be voting reck now if it wasn't for his claim : /

I am really not a fan of him ignoring me bugging everyone to talk about grib while both replying to the post grib made about his argument being important and paying enough attention to start the claim gambit when i said i thought i was at L-1

also don't like his smug prick comment in 929 given how he does play as scum but im not confident in it actually being a scumtell

[Gammagooey]

probably gonna be gone after this so last comments til maybe tomorrow

bins pointed out grib's room stuff which was what made me take back the read but i'm a bit worried that it's the biggest thing pointing to him being town and i don't think it's hard to fake, just that most people wouldn't bother

bins and akane are my strongest two town reads

feel like i should go over not_mafia in particular tomorrow to see if his posts stay decent after the page 12-13 thing i mentioned earlier

cya then

[Gammagooey]

Was out of town so mostly just skimmed but im still just going to do this

VOTE: ReckonerX

Agree with parama on recks attitude with quilford, also don't like his stance on me much and Really dont like his little side thing about me and parama when i cant think of a single time in the past like 5 years its actually been correct as a tell outside of MAYBE newbie games and it feels a lot like just posting about paranoias to try to look town

Did read over nm a little more and dont think I want him to be the lynch.

[Gammagooey]

have an annoying tedious response to reck that basically encapsulates why i just respond to questions with 'lol,reasons' instead of actually going into all these details about things that aren't going to help anyone scumhunt anything and is basically just to tell reck why he's wrong about things

-parama and me thing is you going on the tangeant of me and parama possibly being scum together because he commented on jackal claiming when you and quil were trying the gambit, because i seriously can't think of a time ever that it's been an correct tell in a non-newbie game on the site

-akane being gutscum section was detailed in that way because i knew EXACTLY why I was gut scumreading her and knew that it was a stupid reason that doesn't actually make her any more likely to be scum, which is why i bothered going into that much detail on it to explain that

-you already made an actual opinion on me specifically and not jackal when i made that post about your stance on me so assuming that i'm talking about your posts before i actually did anything in-game is straight up retarded

-section on me being wishy-washy is fine for you to think, i am a little more noncommittal than usual since I still haven't actually read over the entire thread and don't have any reads i'm particularly confident about aside from bins and akane but i'd probably say a few similar things even if that weren't the case

-you know probably better than anyone except mayyybe pie that me being cheeky is a thing that i do and not a scum tell

-as is stream of consciousness style posts (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p5727090)

and that if you replaced the word 'boring' here with dumb you'd basically get extraordinarily similar sentences about the you+quilford mess instead of balto

and now that that's taken entirely too long let me actually read more of the game at 3am because i am bad at time management.

[Gammagooey]

no reck, the tell i'm talking about is when

A PERSON blatantly obviously coaches in-thread their scumbuddy in regards to a claim. fucking up the claim itself is not what i'm talking about.

[Gammagooey]

also parama what parts of his posts do you actually like

because the wishy washy and tone based stuff is a pretty reasonable thing coming from reck but like 2/3rds of that post is him just being completely wrong about what he thinks i'm talking about

[Gammagooey]

half is probably more accurate than 2/3rds but you know what i mean

[Gammagooey]

between the two i'd go Bulge, already said stuff about not_mafia earlier plus this just doesn't seem like scum trying to get out of being lynched here, he looks like he's just trying to play the game (NM)

i'll be around for a while so i'm not going to actually vote bulge right now. don't feel like he's acting particularly like scum either but quil's early play didn't really exist and quil being legitimately frustrated with the game arguments being retarded despite being scum seems possible although not very likely

[Gammagooey]

like parama i'd rather vote you than either of them but I don't think that's actually possible either given that akane and bins both have a townread on you

[Gammagooey]

plus the possibility of reck yelling his way out of a lynch tomorrow if he's scum is not AMAZINGLY likely given how many people are scumreading him but still is worrying me more than a bit

[Gammagooey]

Also pretty sorry about making this many posts but I haven't been here for way too long over the past few days anyway so whatever

akane and bins without going into any role junk can you describe why the QT chat gave you a town read on parama?

[Gammagooey]

@akane & bins- cool cool, thanks

parama putting in a lot effort isn't a tell for him at all but the similar thinking makes sense, reread his early stuff and it still doesn't feel like any of his scumgames that I've seen so i guess he can be an almost town-read or something like that

Don't really think a friendly neighbor makes a ton of sense given the flavor and dislike reck's play and would rather lynch reck here if parama+2 or 3 other people would be up for it but i guess for now i'll do this

Vote: The Bulge

[Gammagooey]

also

Vote: [Akane Kurashiki, Parama, xRECKONERx - 5], [Bins, The Bulge, Gammagooey - 4]

[Gammagooey]

bluh

##unvote

VOTE: The Bulge

5-Vote: Akane Kurashiki, Parama, xRECKONERX

4-Vote: Bins, The Bulge, Gammagooey

[Gammagooey]

probably because i'm not smart and just copied akane+parama's door vote

alternatively because i think you might be closer to being lynched than he is but mostly that first thing

[Gammagooey]

Gamma what's the case? Is it me or Quilly?

it's on a little of quil not doing much+thinking his only real content that I remember being only about reck+his only noticable town point (the replace out) being at least possible for scum to do there

and a little of thinking that pretty much everyone but reck is townier than you & quil and my reck vote didn't do anything with 6isshhhh hours til deadline

[Gammagooey]

also saying that N_M is better because both other wagoners are on it feels pretty dumb considering that there aren't actually any choices for me except N_M and Bulge

[Gammagooey]

like i dont see how that assumption makes sense given that one scum in a group of 5 mostly-town-read people is not an unlikely thing, and that 2 town in this group of 3 wagonned people is pretty damn possible (and if that's not the case then whatever because that would mean we're lynching scum anyway*)

*for you this involves an assumption that i am town so yeah it's probably not a revelation you can really use but deal with it

[Gammagooey]

uhhmm

i don't know how likely you are to be lynched but i feel like it might be better to claim before you need to go to bed

[Gammagooey]

also
@parama- don't see how us voting bulge makes your scenario more likely than N_M and me both being town and voting the scum wagoner
and yeah i might be being a bit excessively needle-y here so if its not worth the time for a longish explanation that'll just boil down to 'well it still seems sketchy and coordinated so feels scummy' then thats fine

[Gammagooey]

hi

so i'm kind of expecting to just get noosed today given everyone's posts so far

reck's ability thing sounds skeevy but akane kind of has all the actual information there so it's probably a better idea to just go on her interpretation of the pm wording but reck fakeclaiming a roleblock and unclaiming it later as scum is something reck would reaaaally do as scum and it's unnerving

already said this in the night QT but the only person who really makes sense as scum aside from him to me is parama

and since i'm the probable lynch anyway give me til late saturday night and i'll go through the game again and splatter my thoughts on the wall before I die at least

[Gammagooey]

and since i'm the probable lynch anyway give me til late saturday night and i'll go through the game again and splatter my thoughts on the wall before I die at least

this is very scum

this is pretty wrong

there are a lot of reasons for a lot of people to be town, and there should be considering that there's probably only one scum left in it

In a normal game I'd probably just be a null-scum read to most people right now but because I'm significantly scummier/less town/however you want to word it than pretty much everyone else you're being lazy and not bothering to go over everyone nearly as much as you would be if you thought today's lynch was either more uncertain or more important.

My play Has been objectively worse than most of my other games I've played in primarily because I haven't made the effort to actually go over the game as much as I normally do mostly because reading the game after dealing with work seems pretty mediocre compared to the other things I'd like to be doing. And yes you will probably think i'm scummier for going over all this but I am town this game, regardless of however unlikely you think that is. I'm not really asking you to believe me right now but i would like if you'd consider it and go over the game a bit more and ask yourself if you really think that I'm scum here given my posts game-yesterday or if I'm just the default lynch because you're crossing off people from the lynch pool that you shouldn't be.

and i'm gonna go do those other things now. i am aware that i'm being a little hypocritical given that I haven't gone over the game in as much detail as I'd like either but it will get done saturday.

[Gammagooey]

Reread through the first 15 pages of the game, I should have more words by the end of the night but I hit on something and I'm going to reck's place soon so I'm just gonna talk about that for a bit and then theres like 2 sentences of notes at the end about N_M's earlier posts.

Grib made this post about primarily akane on page 15

I’ve been quietly sitting on the idea of scum!Akane only for a little while. Normally I don’t try to bother finding multiple scum at once because I just end up confusing myself with possible wine scenarios, but I was really bored. Really bored. I’m gonna go all out with this post, because I need something to do.

First, my thoughts on Akane via her ISO (featuring special guest, Bins!):

Spoiler: Akane

4: Her first vote is for Bins. Innocent enough. Her advocating on saving the doors is only bad if it’s proven the scums’ kills are restricted to rooms/groups.

12: Switches her RVS for...some reason. 34 questioned her on this as well.

20: Claims she switched her vote because she liked Bins’ reaction to her RVS. Which. I dunno, feels really fake. Akane didn’t ask anything particularly difficult, there isn’t really much to be nervous about in this context.

Of course this could just be waved away with “oh it was just a random vote who cares?” but hhh.

81: This is the first post that tipped me on a reread, after I’d been posting for a couple pages. She criticizes 34 for unvoting someone who was at L-1 (what?). And then she goes on about how he should have voted for someone else, or laid out some reads -- in fact, nearly half of the second paragraph could apply presently to Bins. I’m still waiting for Akane to catch up and explain her gut townread on her.

105: Dismisses 34’s above posts because AtE. I only find it scummy because she dismissed all three posts that way. She could have at least addressed the parts of the posts that weren’t AtE.

108: Says 34 is gunking up the thread with his emotions. Bins has been gunking the thread with pure void, but it’s totes okay when she does it.

142: Not gonna lie, this is my favorite part. Akane asks Bins why she still has her vote parked on NM, and asks for her reads. Bins replies with “no reason” (and doesn’t unvote, even though she just stated her vote is dead and useless) and that she’ll “address her reads tomorrow” (she in fact does the opposite of that, by unvoting AND saying she has nothing right after Quil posted a case against Reckoner).

Akane of course addresses this steaming pile of bullshit in her next pos--oh. Wait. She doesn’t readdress this. Ever. In fact, I think this is actually the last time Akane has ever spoken directly to Bins.

Of course everyone is guilty of letting Bins cruise, except Parama, I guess. It’s just more damning for Akane because she’s the one who asked and didn’t follow up.

204: Asks NM for a read on Bins. Because? Who knows. I'm guessing she's trying to justify her gut townread here, by seeing if anyone else is townreading her.

304: Basically calling Reckoner conf!scum. “1% chance that it’s true”? Please.

((Also, just kidding -- Akane does talk to Bins in 310, but it’s a mechanics question so it doesn’t really count.))

Akane then engages Reckoner in some bullshit meta/identity argument, clogging up the thread and being a distracting mess.

And now we’re mostly back to the present. That was fun.

And then other questions:

Spoiler: Parama

My townread of Parama mostly stems from how I feel about the way he went about putting someone at L-1 so early, and how he responded to Jackel pointing it out. His posts are very pro-town and I like his responses/interactions.

The only thing about him that’s been bothering me is his apparent lack of knowledge of how his ability worked earlier in the thread, but I can’t see how that would be alignment indicative so eh.

Spoiler: Reckoner/Flames

I like town!Reckoner for lack of self-awareness in 18. This post reads genuine as a townie who is sure the game will be over long before the 9 Day limit with so few players. It's safe to assume scum know exactly how their NK will function w/r/t the door mechanic. Admittedly, that's all I have for him, because the quality of his posts just go down from there.

To be honest, for a lot of my reads I assume that if a person is scum, they wouldn't do their partner the disservice of, say, throwing a huge fit and drawing so much attention to yourself. Or hardcore lurking out the game, which is a (or rather, the) reason I'm townreading Flames. Lurking is a little difficult to work with, unless it's a huge scumtell for the person.

Of course these are subject to change, but I'm perfectly okay with them for the moment.

I need a nap.

The thing I noticed from that is that Akane seemed like she was paying a lot of attention to what was going on around N_M but didn't have much to say about N_M himself- she has a response to his points on her and a weak read on him here in #209 (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p6145731) but it seems strange to me that she would be that attentive of him when he doesn't seem like someone she's particularly interested in at the time

there's also N_M's vote after that on Grib- he was voting Akane before that but pointing out reck as *sketchy on the wagon* (which is a towntell for reck imo, also shut up reck i know it's not really relevant given your role junk), and it feels like to me he was looking for a reason to get off of the wagon and do something that would actually be useful for him.

And yes this does ignore what I said earlier about me thinking that akane was very likely town for her push on reck. but pretty much everyone in the game has at least one really strong reason to be town imo aside from really just me and parama at this point, and Parama has several minor ones I think

Bins is absolutely my strongest town read, I like what she posted in the QT last night and I REALLY really don't think she would claim what she did and how she did as scum, and a scum vanilla cop is pretty unlikely anyway given the lack of kills from the scumteam (and I don't think that claim is made up.) Her thinking that she's clearing me at the beginning of today is not something coming from scum and if you lynch her after I'm dead I'll probably despise life for a while afterwards so don't do that please.

Quil/Bulge the replace out does make a lot more sense as town than scum to me

Reck has role junk and N_M's willingness to lynch him

And Grib was the choice for N_M's vengeful kill- although he was a very likely PR given his actions reck had already claimed and if I'm remembering the situation correctly akane wasn't unlikely to be a PR either and was much more widely town-read, pretty much the only thing Grib had going for him was his actions in regards to him having a PR and was read as null by most everyone aside from that. I think Grib was the best choice for N_M to vengekill there because of him having a PR AND his likeliness to push on Akane earlier and him pointing out Akane's mentions of N_M early game already.

VOTE: Akane

I'll be around again and probably posting a bit more later tonight, below this are the two little notes that I made while reading over stuff. If I get lynched before I get back then I really think that Akane and Parama should be lynched - I'd say that it would probably win the game for us but something a little strange setup-wise or in the scum decisions has to be happening for reck's role to exist in a game with no scum kills so far except the vengekill, and a 3rd scum would actually make sense here. It is possible that reck and akane are scum together I guess but I don't think it's worth going into that possibility right now.


-------------------------------------------------------------------

Parama's out of nowhere aggression seems odd aswell, not sure if it's just a playstyle thing

this came right after (3 min after) his post expressing suspicion of akane, think it's more likely that it's a comment on town than scum, if him and parama were scum together I tihnk he'd pay more attention to him and have his thoughts on parama be with the akane post instead of being an off-hand comment afterwards

his comment on parama's doublevote maybe being a hammer could be worth looking at too but I don't see a reason to dismiss the possibility of theoretical parama-scum telling him to fake it for an interaction between them that points to them not being scum together

[Gammagooey]

I really don't want to lynch Gamma now.

UNVOTE: Gamma

That was pretty town IMO. Last remaining scum Gamma would've given up and not bothered.

Who would you rather lynch then? Are you just ignoring all the associative tells between Jackel/Gamma and NM? Did I not just write a huuuuuuuuuuuuge thing in the QT last Night about that?

Gamma fighting to live actually makes a lot of sense if it's 4:2 right now. They only need two, maybe even only one mislynch (if they're sitting on a killing power as you suggested in the QT last Night). I know this is pretty much your dream scenario since you've been hating on me all game and Gamma's post is attacking me, but one content post you like doesn't erase a whole game full of tells and even

you

should be able to realize that through your bias if you're not scum.

VOTE: Gamma

The game starting out as 6:3 only makes sense if mafia have no kills aside from the vengeful mafia, them winning after a second mislynch would be really unbalanced given that scum could just claim a guilty on someone after night 1 and then win the game.

also there's a quote about complex problems and solutions that are simple and wrong but i'll feel like a douchebag if i actually post it

reck i would legitimately rather be lynched at this points than bins because im pretty confident bins getting lynched is just her flipping town then me getting lynched the next day anyway

want to say more to akane in response but really it just boils down to the tells not meaning anything if they're incorrect. like im pretty sure in a situation where the options for lynch are me my scumbuddy and a 3rd party I don't say that neither of them really looks like scum but i guess i'll vote non-scumbuddy instead of bussing, but self-metas generally pretty garbage for having other people read you so how about this instead

Why do you think N_M chose to kill Grib over anyone else?

[Gammagooey]

parama stop being lazy

come read all this junk with me, i don't feel like dying for your reads

[Gammagooey]

the thing is that i think it's pretty clear that even if you think i'm scum you're still wrong with at least one of your reads assuming that you're town

cause i don't do pointlessly silly no-kill gambits as mafia and given that bins has a vanilla result on me a kill-less mafia with a vengeful guy and a goon against reck's role+some other junk is not a balanced setup.

soooo you might as well go through it now and like ideally see some things that suggest i'm town and be all revelatory about it but at least have something better to say tomorrow than *everyone looks townier than me what do*

[Gammagooey]

also im gonna be unreasonably optimistic for a second here

3-vote: The Bulge, Parama, xRECKONERx, Gammagooey

[Gammagooey]

bins being scum with me is literally insane

'hey i am clearing my scumbuddy with a vanilla cop claim on the basis of a roleblocker thing that i know doesn't exist'

like seriously

[Gammagooey]

i don't think that's necessarily true, parama+akane's abilities don't really seem alignment indicative so those PRs might have been random alignments, or pie might have made it as kind of a cop for the vengeful mafia only since they wouldn't have a real ability to claim

like if thats right it would kind of have to be akane+bulge from my perspective which would make my comment yesterday much funnier but it doesn't seem terribly likely

i think my room vote is sexist but girlll math is a harsh unforgiving mistress that i dare not taunt openly

[Gammagooey]

wait hold on if i'm being sexist anyway i should post this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFZKgf5WG0g

also

1-vote: Parama, Akane Kurashiki, Quilford
5-vote: Not_Mafia, Reckoner, Bins

I am not fucking using my neighbor ability on either of these two. Why are Bins & Not_Mafia the "universal top two town reads"?

another thing that points to reck probs not being scum with N_M since lolololololrolezzzzzzzzzzzz is happening

[Gammagooey]

pssst hey parama

hey

how does this post make you feel

How is Reck your only scumread? If that's the case, reread, now.
People in this game need to stop having this problem.

oh and actually bins said her ability couldn't go through walls didn't she

so i think this works?

3-vote: xRECKONERx, Parama, Gammagooey

so bins and bulge would be behind and she can check him
if she has to be in a door to use it then we can just do bulge+her+me again but i kinda want to talk to parama and reck


also don't particularly like akane's talk with N_M right before the hammer d1 but that might just be conf. bias from me since it just feels a bit off.

[Gammagooey]

bluh

3-Vote: Bins, The Bulge, Gammagooey

reck did you actually get a message from Grib or are you assuming that based on his role name? because i don't think thats a good assumption.

[Gammagooey]

If it's bothering you maybe you can ask the mod what exactly he PMs when you use your ability? Most mods are good about clarifying roles. Wouldn't be surprised if he trolls you with a worthless response, though, since that's what I got when I asked him for clarification about it

this is a thing you should do btw reck

cause i don't wanna deal with this shiz no mo'

[Gammagooey]

son this is 999 mafia

you aren't gettin' the true ending if you don't bother trying to solve all these godamn mysteries

and putting aside that assuming 2 scum with me as the last is pretty garbage, assuming that Grib died because 'lolwifom that doesn't even help gamma's position at all' or just dismissing it as PR hunting with other much townier people and reck's role still around is lazy as godamn hell.

but hey i think i can maybe change your mind eventually for *reasons* that you're free to ask about

for now what associative tells are you talking about with bulge (i'd guess just the end of day stuff yesterday but i would still like to hear it) and what makes you think that it isn't likely to be bussing?

[Gammagooey]

parama stop being lazy for like 15 minutes and just find and post what you're talking about

cause i personally think that the reason why I almost never get lynched as town is because of how I show what I think but that's not going to matter at all to you until I can show you that some of the assumptions you're making are wrong.

and also I kind of despise how you're treating the game right now- you can at least put in the effort and post about about who you think would be my scumbuddy here, because your previous plan of 'expect to be lynched when the game isn't over tomorrow' is really godamn awful and i don't understand how you think it's going to work out well even if i'm scum and you know that it's game-losingly bad if you make the assumption that im actually town here.

[Gammagooey]

also i don't even really think that's a decision N_M had to make, he was voting quilford the entirety of yesterday unless i missed something, my wagon only came into play much much later, and given that bulge was still lynchable i don't see how he could back down from that

it does seem to imply that bulge isn't scum unless there's 3 total though, since bussing your only partner the entire day isn't a smart thing to do there

[Gammagooey]

uuurrgh.

yes this game is hard and you're probably still worried that i'm scum and wooing everyone with content and words

but i'm town so you can worry about other things instead :3

like i'd actually really like to know more detail on people's thoughts on akane and parama and why they think that they're *alignment*

[Gammagooey]

you're making me paranoid of everything i believed in

yeap

if you look back at jackal's play i think you'll find most of it looks town too

the only particularly noticeable thing i remember people saying about him/her was not mentioning n_m, which

is

something to be suspicious of but can (and i know did) happen with town, and I don't think it's too hard to see it that way given that N_M wasn't really a big topic of conversation before jackal left.

also
@reck- I probably know what you're gonna say already but why did you claim to be roleblocked d2 instead of just saying that you forgot?

[Gammagooey]

math

1-vote: Gammagooey, Bins, The Bulge

everyone else gives off more townvibes to me

except maybe you but that's normal

so???

so post about it

go into detail on why you think the bulge/N_M interaction isn't faked

or make a guess at something and go through a chunk of the game with that assumption in mind and see what makes sense and what doesn't

or meta me if you don't feel like actually going through

this

game at all even though meta is generally a real mediocre basis for things

but god fucking damn have I tried to get people to put in some content into the thread and posted enough thoughts for people to be able to read me and it isn't going to do shit if you and everyone else decide that their earlier insights and efforts were good enough and that you don't have to care about anything I'm saying.

[Gammagooey]

i think akane makes the most sense as scum with N_M based on N_M's posts, don't really think the post bins quoted is unfakeable but Parama's unwillingness to consider anything aside from me has been gnawing at me more than a bit. like that thing i mentioned with him not being intentionally thick like in metamafia doesn't feel like it applies here anymore.

[Gammagooey]

parama it doesn't feel like you've tried. I've asked you to go into detail on bulge and you haven't, and your post saying that you wouldn't know what to do if i flip town followed by not seriously considering that i even could be town feels really awful. like im not expecting you to read me as town but i am expecting you to at least entertain the possibility.

[Gammagooey]

parama i guess i just don't really get why you're playing like you are here?

i'm pretty much the only acceptable lynch to you but you're not really attacking any of my content posts, just saying that they're not necessarily town

bulge and bins are apparently town enough to you that nobody could possibly be scum with them even though you don't really go into detail on why that is until i dragged bulge out of you now

like i just don't get why you aren't either actually going into my play and trying to convince people to lynch me or seriously considering that i might not be scum, you're just -there- pushing my lynch but not actually playing like you think i'm absolutely scum.

[Gammagooey]

have you ever wanted to make a post that consists entirely of cursing

[Gammagooey]

because i feel it would be pretty justified right now

[Gammagooey]

i'm sorry that you haven't done enough to change my mind? i'm sorry that association tells entirely outweigh the content you've posted? i'm sorry that scum can make good posts too so making good posts doesn't automatically make you town again?

I don't know why I'm scum simply because you haven't convinced me you're town. That isn't my job.

Bulge and Bins both have strong association towntells w/ NM, mostly.
And I just can't be bothered to criticize the stuff you're posting because I dunno if it's even "bad" (to be honest I skimmed them, because can't be botheeed), just that from everything I've learned about the game up to this point, you make the most sense as scum out of everyone. I don't think a few content posts at this point in the game are going to entirely change that.

no, fuck off.

Vote: Parama

[Gammagooey]

VOTE TAGS

VOTE: Parama

[Gammagooey]

town parama does not comment on me not 'convincing' him that i'm town when he's not even bothering to read my posts.

[Gammagooey]

Im drunk and now there are fish everywhere

[Gammagooey]

well i'm dead now omg

I feel like this is horseshit because you just have 3 votes on you and Im pretty sure you know that
But again drunk and etc

[Gammagooey]

I am drunk

But going away is FOR CASUALS

NEVER SURRENDER

FUCK THE POLICE

TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS

[Gammagooey]

Id lynch hwr if you didnt just say something that makes no sense for you to say as town with what youve said already

[Gammagooey]

No, thats horseshit

Ive been putting in ABSURD amounts of effort to try to make you and everyone else actually read me and try to get you to explain why the hell youve been acting how you are in this game

And you slip up saying I havent done enough for you to consider me town when you later say you werent even actually reading my posts

Theres no fucking way you say that I havent done enough to CONVINCE you when you arent reading my posts

You would ONLY say that if you actually thought I was putting in effort and were going over it but disnt think it was enough to lynch someone else

Saying that you were fucking testing me when youve already said you arent even READING MY POSTS IS A GIGANTIC PILE OF SHIT.

[Gammagooey]

See, at least with Gamma I can understand why he'd attack both of us. I've been on him all day for the same stuff, so has Parama. But he's already called me scum for other reasons. Oh, and we both want him dead, so I suspect there's no small amount of self-preservation involved. Otherwise it's just

awfully

convenient.

I don't understand why Reck would be on Parama's case and not mine. And this is probably something I should have brought up earlier, but I was busy yelling at Bulge and badly photoshopping a goldfish. Priorities, y'know?

@Reck: Do you see a difference between the way Parama is pushing on Gamma and the way I am?

and I guess @Gamma: same question.

the short answer here is you're trying and parama isn't

the long answer is that i think you make the most sense as scum if I were to base it solely on N_M's iso while parama's play is significantly worse than everyone else in the game who isn't bulge, and bulge has the quilford replace out+no glaring contradictions in how he's perceiving the game

like to be fair to you if I was just basing my vote on who I thought was scummier at that particular instant I should have changed my vote to parama like a day and a half or two days ago (RL time) and was worried about fucking up by unvoting you and parama being town and just losing the game because of it but if parama was scum you seemed likely to be scum to me too and i wasn't nearly as confident about it being the other way around and yeah

and while im responding to your post don't go into horseshit insinuations of me being scum please, if you think i'm wrong to say what im saying about you in regards to N_M's posts then point out what and why you think that's/is bad. sarcastically saying its convenient for me to do that is not surprising but it is just a dumb insinuation that you could actually back up with reasons why that particular read of mine is more likely to come from scum than town as opposed to 'durr he's voting someone who wants him dead, aka anyone in the entire godamn game at the time, seems p. scummy to me'

[Gammagooey]

was worried about fucking up by unvoting you and parama being town and just

losing the game because of it

uhhh hwat

assume its 3:6
do you really think if parama is town and gets lynched that i wouldn't just be the lynch the next day

[Gammagooey]

I can't quote because I'm phone posting, but it's really disingenuous for gamma to claim everyone was pushing him and discredit my comment about convenience because of it. Even a newbie could tell there are different degrees of pushing going on here. A more advanced player could even read into who's more likely to be wishy washy with their vote and play to that. And I'm concerned that if we don't kill Gamma today there won't be enough support for it later and he's still the strongest scum candidate.

yes, you and parama and reck were pushing me harder than everyone else (aka the remaining two players in the game)

the POINT is that saying that my reads are a spooooooky coincidence is stupid when i've gone into a pretty decent amount of detail on why i think you're likely scum and I tried to engage Parama for a long-ass time and talk to him about why he thinks things and why he's been playing like he is

and again parama saying that i didn't convince him doesn't make any sense when he's not reading my posts
you wouldn't say that to someone when you just don't give a shit about any of their arguments
only when you've actually gone through what they're arguing for and don't think its good enough.

[Gammagooey]

and again parama saying that i didn't convince him doesn't make any sense when he's not reading my posts
you wouldn't say that to someone when you just don't give a shit about any of their arguments
only when you've actually gone through what they're arguing for and don't think its good enough.

and again parama saying that i didn't convince him doesn't make any sense when he's not reading my posts
you wouldn't say that to someone when you just don't give a shit about any of their arguments
only when you've actually gone through what they're arguing for and don't think its good enough.

and again parama saying that i didn't convince him doesn't make any sense when he's not reading my posts
you wouldn't say that to someone when you just don't give a shit about any of their arguments
only when you've actually gone through what they're arguing for and don't think its good enough.

[Gammagooey]

so this game is not getting dealt with right now

i will be back later

[Gammagooey]

so here is my opinion on the only game related thing in that clusterfuck

i don't care about reck claiming at all

that is all

i'll probably give a rehash/summary thing of my reads+thoughts on people's alignments tomorrow night sometime.

[Gammagooey]

So I said 'reads' earlier but this is actually just mega-parama-read-explanation plus a sidenote so shrug.

--------------------------------

Parama read

I really don't think Parama would have a) said that I was trying to convince him and it wasn't good enough if he wasn't actually reading over my posts carefully, IF he were that lazy and town I really think that he would just say that I was scum for associations tells and say that he didn't care about my posts because of it, instead of using me not convincing him as a reason for saying I'm scum.

I also don't think Parama would read over my posts directed at him specifically asking several times for him to read over the game and consider that I might not be scum and not only do it but also not even seriously read over my posts while I'm making them this game-day. I am someone who makes my posts I think ridiculously easy to physically read with MAYBE 2-4 exceptions this game when i wanted to talk a lot about the akane read and few other things I thought were actually important.

I do know that he's lazy sometimes but he knows I'm not incompetent and I don't think that him ignoring me when i'm asking him specifically to participate in the game and not even read over my posts seriously is something he'd do as town here. I think it makes a lot more sense that he made up the 'convincing' statement as a reason why he isn't giving a shit about what I've been saying this game.

-------------------------

Other junk

as i mentioned earlier Bins is really really town and I don't think her making the vanilla cop claim she did to clear ME of all people AND her reaction to reck claiming afterwards doesn't look like its coming from scum

still think reck is probably town for N_M interactions

If there's 3 scum I think one's more likely to be akane/CDB based on N_M but I'm not that confident about bulge being town either.

[Gammagooey]

definitely forgot to have more lettered things than a)
whatev

[Gammagooey]

cdb i know this game is weird

but a 3rd party in a 9 player game with no kills so far? that does not seem like anything more than a paranoid theory to me.

also have you read over my explanation of my parama read and do you have anything to say about it?

@reck- there's a flavor reason to akane's bracelet number thing being how it is, don't really want to go too much into it because spoilers

[Gammagooey]

also it's still pretty frustrating that you go into possibilities for what type of scum I would be and don't seriously consider that i could be town.

[Gammagooey]

i guess it doesn't seem like it given that you haven't actually mentioned pretty much anything I've done since replacing in aside from reck not liking my early post tone?

like you and parama are the only people who still really think im scum this game and neither of you actually seem to give a shit about the posts i've actually made, just the connections you think I have with N_M.

[Gammagooey]

like you and parama are the only people who still really think im scum this game and neither of you actually seem to give a shit about the posts i've actually made, just the connections you think I have with N_M.

well.
you see.
your posts don't matter?
unless you can find reasons that someone else is more likely scum with NM, which I find unlikely, and which you haven't done.
that's kind of the point of association tells; they're pretty hard to shake

im not even sure if I can express how much i disagree with this without being insulting

there are SO many opportunities you have as a player to go over posts and evaluate whether that mindset is coming from scum or town, and it seems like every large game on this site you have that one player who looks just AWFUL from interactions and then either gets lynched or almost does so and turns out to be town. And yeah it's a lot harder to look for but it's pretty damn clear there's a difference between people being town from just putting effort into the game and having their posts display a mindset that's more likely to be town or scum. If you really want I can drag up examples for all this shit but I really don't think you should need them.

And I've already gone into why I think Akane is liklier scum than anyone else in the game but you already and given your comments on how much effort you've put into reading my posts I really don't give a shit about you saying that I haven't done enough of anything this game.

[Gammagooey]

i actually wouldn't be that sad with a no lynch and just everyone but me in a room with bulge getting vanilla copped

i still don't think parama would act the way he would towards me as town but i don't like cdb's posts so far either and its just a generally gross situation.

[Gammagooey]

also i might as well point out that I think Grib being the vengekill points pretty strongly to me not being scum

because literally anyone else would have been a better kill if I were scum with N_M

[Gammagooey]

eh

bins is the deciding vote for whether cdb is doable or not i think, ask her. i'd vote him and i think reck would vote him. i don't think reck is scum given the N_M interactions and how this ridiculous situation of a day has played out.

[Gammagooey]

also i still think its kind of weird that if they bothered with cases on N_M that they wound up voting him at the end because of me and N_M being on the same wagon instead of any of that

[Gammagooey]

this might be a dumb question but i can't go check it myself

does her speculation or doubts mesh with how she wound up voting N_M?

[Gammagooey]

also to be fair to bulge

reck your role is the biggest wtf that i've seen since like

Vi's fire emblem game where we lost after several modkills and a missed lynch with like 11 players and one scum left in the game

[Gammagooey]

i'll be aroundish for a while and around at deadline

still think parama's behavior towards me this game is weird as hell and that he's most likely scum

i am worried that cdb could be scum and have noticed that votes would be coming his way and changed his read on parama because of it but I don't think that's very likely just given his personality and how I've seen him play in the past

bulge just doesn't feel like scum to me at all? like it's not something that'll be convincing to other people but his posts voting reck I don't think comes from scum, it just seems like he thinks reck might be scum and everyone else is hesitating so he tried to get everyone to do shit himself (plus him and N_M having megabussed doesn't seem likely)

[Gammagooey]

to you not really? it makes bins's role more likely to exist but she's pretty much a universal town read anyway.

[Gammagooey]

jesus there is so much more to this game than setup garbage

im gonna mention that there's still pretty much no push for my lynch for what i've been posting recently and that maaaybe it's because i'm town and that's why it's legitimately difficult to point out why I'd be scum from it and then leave it at that because rehashing the argument with parama about me being scummy for relational shit sounds like a generally miserable waste of time

bulge if you're having trouble actually solidifying shit let's go over some thoughts. why do you think me and parama look town and why do you think cdb/akane is scummy?

and yeah bins this game is kind of just a thing that's happening to us at this point. everyone has pretty damn good reasons to be town but hey figuring out clusterfucks like this is probably half the reason why we play this game in the first place. like reck going for the long play of defending me and making this whole situation isn't completely out of the question given that he'd probably think i'd just get lynched and he'd get town cred anyway for not being on it but I just don't think he makes much sense as scum with N_M.

[Gammagooey]

like if I really go into my headspace with him he's probably just as unlikely scum with N_M as most other people are

if this day had gone differently I'd seriously consider lynching him

but if I help lynch him and he flips town I will pretty much want to throw myself off tall buildings and Parama's mindset this game regarding me just makes so much more sense to me as scum than town.

[Gammagooey]

so there's an hour until deadline.

pretty sure the votecount is something like

Parama (3) - Gamma+Reck+CDB

Gamma (1) - Parama

Reck (1) - The Bulge

And bins is either voting me or nobody i think

[Gammagooey]

i normally wouldn't say this because i think its completely useless to try to read alignments from posts that say things like this

but

Well, there's no fucking chance of a Gamma lynch now because I don't think Reck will do it and then CDB is sleeping.

I'm town and I'm going to be happy about this and yes you're irritated but its a legitimately good thing damnit

holy shit this game has been just exhausting

[Gammagooey]

jesus balls

i think parama is scummiest and that i think him being murdered is the best decision i can come up with

if you think there's anything that would actually likely give you a strong read that you think would be actually accurate on someone that can happen tomorrow then no lynch is fine i guess but i don't want to deal with another day like this again tomorrow if its not absolutely going to be useful

[Gammagooey]

1-vote: Bins, xRECKONERx, CDB, The Bulge

And i'll stay outside just in case scum can kill only in rooms or something I guess? I don't think it's likely they have a kill at all but might as well just in case

[Gammagooey]

we have all these feelings and they're all jerks

[Gammagooey]

we can, if reck doesn't give a shit about not sending another friendly neighbor message that's fine

[Gammagooey]

^ is in reponse to this

in all honesty if you're gonna leave one behind leave two behind; a room of Bins/CDB/Bulge works.

[Gammagooey]

sure

##unvote

1-Vote: Bins, The Bulge, CDB

[Gammagooey]

fifteen minutes left

[Gammagooey]

as I said in the QT I'm fairly confident in the last scum being between CDB and Reck. I'm going to go over a bunch of the game before actually pushing for someone to die and I'm not going to have time for that tonight. I MIGHT tomorrow but I doubt I'll be able to go over as much as I'd like before the weekend.

[Gammagooey]

That's fine, but bearing in mind that it looks almost certainly as if we have one non-killing scum in five players, we have three lynches with which to play. I'm not overly keen on dragging this out for ages when the pressure is so low.

i mean i kind of agree with you (and at least don't want today to be anything like yesterday) but I think Bins and Bulge are VERY likely to be town and want to actually go over them again in detail before I pretty much discount them as being possible scum, and I just don't want to deal with reck's insults anymore this game until I actually have time to go into why you and him are likely scum in detail and the time to respond to everything reck may want to scream about afterwards.

[Gammagooey]

Yeah, so, Parama lets Gamma know that Jackel already claimed then plays it off as LOL OH IT'S OK HE WOULD'VE SEEN ANYWAY IT'S A DUMB GAMBIT and then Gamma is like YEAH LOL IT'S A DUMB GAMBIT WTF RECK U SHOULD KNO BETTER so I said "Hey Gamma don't you remember the Reckoning III where we literally ended the game by catching someone fucking up their predecessor's play?" and then nothing after that.

VOTE: Gamma

i responded to that you clownfarmer

no reck, the tell i'm talking about is when

A PERSON blatantly obviously coaches in-thread their scumbuddy in regards to a claim. fucking up the claim itself is not what i'm talking about.

also, read my back and forth between me and parama right before I vote him for the first time day 3. do you really think i faked that?

[Gammagooey]

and because there's only 5 people alive I'm at L-1 right now.

If you could NOT vote me yet after me barely avoiding getting lynched over a scum yesterday, when I'm probably not going to be around for the next several hours, and the only thing I've gotten a chance to say today is 'I really want to go over stuff and post my thoughts over the weekend', I'd appreciate it a lot.

[Gammagooey]

okay

i'm still not going to be useful until tomorrow at the earliest

but can we please go over actual play instead of going mostly on setup garbage

because i'm still town and bulge's mindset doesn't make sense to me as scum by hammering parama how he did

and i'm pretty sure there's a lot better shit to go on for reck than the claim even though my opinion on the claim is that its weird as all hell and I'm not sure where I'm going with this aside from please analyze things that are less susceptible to the whims of moderator choice (and don't say balance because pretty much any configuration of this setup seems relatively closely BALANCED, it's just whether or not you think the mod gave a non-revelatory[no major effect on the game] role to scum instead of town.)

[Gammagooey]

no pretty sure he means yelling

it's pretty yelly

[Gammagooey]

CDB, do you think I'm scum for anything that isn't what I think is awful setup speculation?

I'll go through the stuff I wanted to and have a big post about my reads after work.

[Gammagooey]

thats not really the type of answer i'm trying to get at

why do you think i'm likely to be scum with N_M and Parama without using the word 'setup'?

[Gammagooey]

how many games do you think people have lost with shitty setup speculation and the same sentiment?

[Gammagooey]

bins i can accept with that

reck I think a lot of the attacks and defenses he's made would have come from reck-scum as well, he has done several things that would be pretty damn weird to do as scum but so has literally every single person in the game at this point, but I haven't actually coherently gone over his play since like early day 2 so I admittedly don't have much to say about his town-play until I have the chance to do that.

also to be fair I think you're geeenerally more likely to be scum than reck at this point and i'm trying to get you to actually have opinions on me and bulge so if the game goes my lynch->bulge lynch->a terrible clusterfuck of a LYLO with reck screaming about his role and Bins cursing about not lynching him earlier then there's actually something to go on for you aside from *oh no my setup speculation was wrong guess its reck*

[Gammagooey]

^early day 3 i think actually not 2

[Gammagooey]

eh
yesterday was a day for saying things before I die

today I'm having a really hard time seeing why people think I'm scum given the things that happened yesterday.
like, can you iso me and parama and then read through a bit for me? 1489 to 1545 in particular, it's on the third page and like 15ish posts but all of mine are around 2 lines long. Parama pretty clearly wasn't considering anything I had to say and if you Really stretch it MAYBE you could think it was super power bussing but Parama really didn't have any interest in reconsidering his read on me and if you look at it from my perspective I think you'll see how I was thinking about it pretty clearly.

[Gammagooey]

man my slots been at L-1 at some point every day except day 1

i kind of feel like a punching bag here

[Gammagooey]

i'm not going to filter my thoughts on the game when the ENTIRE fucking point of this is trying to explain my thoughts on the game and getting other people to actually read through the game and form coherent thoughts on all of this bullshit instead of assuming that the game's already won and that their reads are good enough to stop caring about whether i'm actually scum or not.

because it's not like we spent 30 godamn pages doing that yesterday before lynching scum over me or anything

[Gammagooey]

and yeah it would be better for my own self-preservation if i pretended I thought you didn't have any chance of being scum

but just maybe i'd like to make the assumption that I can talk about what I'm thinking without whoever I suspect going rabid over it, or that by questioning other people's assumptions that I think are wrong, even if I'm not sure if the conclusions that person may make afterwards will be correct, it'll actually help to solve this clusterfuck of a game.

me thinking that you could be scum is not an insult reck, and it'd be nice if you didn't treat it as one.

[Gammagooey]

No, its not. Its an opinion in a fucking mafia game when I am saying over and over again that I havent had time to go over your play as thoroughly as id like to. Fix the link and ill read over it later tonight with everything else, im on my phone right now.

[Gammagooey]

i have read the stuffs

not all the stuffs but like a really good chunk of d1 & d2 stuffs.

Quilford's posts about massclaiming and his interaction with Parama about that and the roleblocker, with parama saying that its worrying quil would think that when hes in the room with reck look town for him and I still really think his interactions with reck and replace out for it fit a town mindset perfectly to me and seems really town.
I also think that the way that he hammered parama doesn't make sense for him as scum. although i can see him hammering parama to bus I really don't think he'd comment on how it'd make him look shitty first, and if he was scum I think he would have joined me and reck in pushing to lynch akane earlier instead of hopping his vote around, he expressed wanting to lynch CDB later in the day and I basically told him it was possible and he still didn't bother with it when it likely would have won him the game as scum w/ parama since I'd be very likely lynched the next day.

reck after reading through he'd still probably be my second pick for scum but i don't think it's actually likely he's scum anymore. I read through a lot of his posts and it kind of blurred together so I'm going to go over this tomorrow since I'm supposed to be drinking at recks like now.

bins is still town for all the reasons that i've previously said saying she's town

And this isn't actually a surprise but I think CDB/Akane is most likely to be scum. CDB's read change on me felt pretty weird and Akane had a few really bad posts on rereading from day 1.

Spoiler: first part of akanes reread posts

dat reread post! *insert rainbows and sparkles here*

names and page numbers bolded for readability, post numbers in parentheses. This may make more sense if you have another tab open and read along with me, because I'm trying not to make this any more of a wallpost than it needs to be but I also want to be thorough.

Page 1:

Not much going on here. But I actually kind of like that

Reck

rolled in and tried to preemptively shut down pages of setup discussion nonsense (13), but I don't agree with the reasoning (and on the flip side, it could potentially be trying to shut down town use of a useful mechanic) and then he pretty much completely negates this by immediately diving into more setup discussion for the rest of the page.

ThirtyFour

gets some small points for being one of the first people to ask a scumhunting question (17) aside from my weak question before to

Bins

(7).

ThirtyFour's

(23) doesn't seem nearly as big a deal on a re-read.

Page 2:

Reck's

line of questioning @

Jackel

seems legit (26 and 27), but then

Flames

jumps all over it (28) and makes it all slimy. I mean, maybe he had a derp moment, but he serious-voted someone for something that was blatantly untrue. I don't know how to feel about this. Also "Damn, already out of RVS" gives me scum vibes.

Jackel's

(29) kinda eh but fine in context I guess.

Reck

asks another good question (38).

Flames'

(39) is just... what? He voted on a blatantly false premise to get a reaction and unvotes when pressured? It seems really forced to me, and not in a good way.

Reck

gives early reads without prompting (42). What the hell is this? Am I even reading the same game anymore?

Parama

towns it up, nothing else to see here really (45).

Page 3:

(53) and onward... not really sure how

Parama

didn't understand what

Bins'

RVS vote was...? I kinda doubt it's willful obtuseness though, since it doesn't last long (66). I can kind of see how

ThirtyFour's

(61) might be cautious town although the unvote still rubs me the wrong way. Reading the rest of the post again it looks like he was trying to put some content out there and not just unvoting because "scurred of quicklynch ohnoes" like I originally read it as, so it seems not as bad in that context. In particular it seems like he was genuinely trying to read

Parama

. Having no reads whatsoever on page 3 is still pretty bad but, in that context, not as incriminating as I felt it was before.

Page 4:

I start the wagon on

ThirtyFour

(81). But on reread I'm not seeing him as nearly as scummy so far. It just doesn't seem like as big a deal as I thought it was at the time.

Reckoner

jumps from a presumably RVS me-vote to sheeping my wagon with no reasons or additional input -- I think this is where he really starts to go downhill (85).

Jackel

tries to get him to explain (86), and he does (93) but it feels... idk, unsatisfactory? More questions fly around and stuff,

ThirtyFour

still seems to be trying to develop reads (88, 94, 95).

In hindsight

Flames'

unvote seems much, much worse than

ThirtyFour's

, especially given future context of the former's slot being lurkalicious.

Reckoner

defends

Flames

on super, super weak reasoning (97) and now I'm wondering if they're scum together. It would also explain why

Reck

gets more belligerent and goes from seeming null-town to strongly anti-town as the game goes on -- it fucking

sucks

to basically be playing scum by yourself with a buddy who won't play the game, and

yonce

, the

Flames

replacement, is lurking too... I'll get to this post in my reread at some point but I remember

Parama

posting at some point that

Flames

was posting elsewhere but not in our game. Another point to add to the pile, although it would be a stronger one if he hadn't then been replaced.

... I don't want to end this here but real life calls so I'm just gonna post what I have now. Better to break it up so it's not so overwhelming anyway, I guess. I'll be able to resume this in another hour or so hopefully.

super awesome tl;dr for the lazy: Contemplating Reck + Flames/yonce scumteam. ThirtyFour/Grib significantly less scummy on re-read, just really not seeing this time what I saw before. Jackel asks some questions and shit and isn't entirely useless; faintly on the town side of null. Parama does town things. Not_Mafia was just kinda there but not really comment-worthy. Everyone else was just kinda not there for the most part.

hey guise I rediscovered post tags, isn't it great? (thanks, post 118, for reminding me)

Spoiler: long reread post, pp 5-6

Page 5: Parama's

100 has a

very

consistent tone and feel to when he pressures

Bins

much later on for similar reasons. It's not exactly a secret that I don't think

Parama

is scum, but if he is, I think this weakly supports a theory that neither

Bins

or

ThirtyFour/Grib

is the buddy. Mostly just stating that for future reference. Also noting 101 for future reference. 104 is still terrible AtE but on reread it strikes me that it reads almost like a twilight post -- like he's a townie that feels like he's already been lynched and is begging town to listen to his thoughts one last time before the mod comes in to lock the thread. And it kind of was since he replaced out shortly afterward. Whoops. Yeah, the rest of his iso is reading very much like townie that can't handle pressure to me now.

112 has one bit that rubs me the wrong way -- namely

Parama

tells

ThirtyFour

not to make a certain kind of post and I remember just dismissing it at the time but it really doesn't make sense to me. Why is asking for a specific read scummy? Why did

ThirtyFour

get called out on this and not anyone else who's (probably) done it since -- at least, not that I remember? It's the only thing I've seen that makes me doubt my read on

Parama

so far but it's really bothering me now. 116:

ThirtyFour

says "

Parama

is fine now" but doesn't unvote...? I think I'm just gonna chalk that up to the fact that he was thinking of replacing out at that point but it is very odd. Post 120: Oh hey look,

Bins

actually kind of posted a read without being pressured to!

Page 6:

126 is a

Reckoner

post, turns out he took issue with the same part of a

Parama

post that I did above, which is noteworthy. Srsvotes me though without any reasons, hopping off the wagon I started to do so, creating a weird

Akane-34-Akane

sandwich. I mean this is definitely subject to bias since the votes are on me but to me that just says that he doesn't really care where his vote is and clearly isn't considering any interactions when he votes. (

Quilford

makes a similar observation on this point later on.) 128: this post strikes me as a really scummy response but then again posting stupid gifs as a response is

also

a very Reck thing to do so maybe this is a tell that he hasn't been taken over by bodysnatchers more than anything (and if he tries to deny this thing too because OMG META I am going to throw something. )

129:

Jackel

, from what I've observed, seems to have a habit of asking good questions but otherwise being completely null. Because they all seem really "safe" and

Jackel

really hasn't done anything risky or stuck her neck out for anything, this actually makes me read

Jackel

as scummier. She seems to be posting just enough to not really get noticed. 135 strikes me as town, though.

131 ok, I think this is where my gut-town read on

Bins

started. Since it's gut, it's hard to articulate, but I think

Bins'

general playstyle has been ... carefree, I guess? I just think scum are usually more careful and conservative in the way they post (barring the the occasional outlier) and this is a good example of a "didn't think about the repercussions, just posted" post to me. Also this applies to the game now moreso than to the reread directly but I think I'm just gonna sheep

Not_Mafia

when it comes to

Bins

unless he dies or I stop thinking he's townish or

Bins

starts acting scummy and not just anti-town.

144 is that one I was thinking of earlier where

Parama

notes that

Flames

was posting in other games.

Yeah, I know. And on the off-chance he's actually town, it's the right move. But if he's scum and we all hopped off of him because he made an excellent fakeclaim... well I dunno about you, but I'm gonna feel really stupid for letting him get away with it even if it's just for one more Day.

Talking about reck getting away with stuff feels really bad and just feels a lot more like a scum mindset than a town one, while her early read posts pushed a reck/yonce scumteam in her first big catchup post but really soon after distances from her parama read a bit, and even keeps notes who wouldn't be likely scum with parama for future reference but keeps her vote on reck. I still think my case from earlier is valid with her interactions with N_M being mediocre IMO and her being scum explains why Grib got shot over townier people by N_M.

i'll probably expand on this more tomorrow actually since it isn't as detailed as I think it should be but drinking soon.

Last thing, N_M was also pushing for jackal to be lynched when I replaced in, saying that the tells still applied to me from him (I think, i'm not going back and checking at this point but i know it was something similar) and I really think my interactions with Parama yesterday should point to me as town here.

moooore tomorrow

[Gammagooey]

Also I should be doing at this point

VOTE: CDB

[Gammagooey]

reck thoughts

The main reason why I don't think reck is likely scum anymore is because of his interactions with Parama, despite the fact that I think he'd be willing to bus as much as he'd have to in order to be scum this game, and that I think his big "i'd have to do all these craaaazy things to be scum" is accurate at some points and implausible at others (if you care about why go into the reasons spoiler)

Spoiler: reasons

he had already claimed when parama just had one vote on him, the doublevote pressure came later, he's backed out of claims before as scum and won games because of it, him voting N_M I don't think would have anything to do with parama's comments on him if he was scum, and I think he would go for defending me as a long-play since him and parama would both be likely lynches if I got lynched, and he wouldn't have known I'd redirect my Akane vote to Parama later on

The D1 & D2 play with him and parama just doesn't feel like scum on scum interaction to me, parama stated at one point that even if he was town his earlier vote on him was justified, and parama's commenting on his claim for the most part feels more like scum commenting on a town claim- the only exception is right after d2 when he immediately accepts recks explanation of him forgetting to submit as a totally reck thing to do but that's not something that'd be surprising to be directed at town either.

------------------------------------------------

Some more little points on akane, but it's mostly just gonna be bullet points i think

-I don't like her vote pattern early game, she didn't vote a scum until voting N_M and her revote on him near the end of the day feels weird to jump on for parama's reason of me and N_M being on the same wagon, I wouldn't be surprised if it was because Parama wanted to bus N_M for both of them to get cred and have N_M kill Grib who wants Akane dead

-CDB considering that I'm town, helping to lynch scum I would think at least partially based on what I've posted about him, and then immediately just not caring if I'm town or not feels really weird, especially given that Parama not giving a shit about anything I had to say being one of the big things I thought he was scum for

-Akane's tone midgame where she seems a lot more playful seems weird. no you're not going to get any more about this it just feels weird.

[Gammagooey]

night two is a thing that happens after day two

trooooooooo facts

[Gammagooey]

so like

it would be nice if you guys went into reasons why you think bulge is scum/not scum aside from inactivity

it'd be pretty cool

[Gammagooey]

I'm pretty sure that Akane/CDB's role is essentially a flavor role. It for the most part does not affect game balance, and pie would absolutely give a role like that to either alignment. Also, if you really don't want to listen to me about that then scum could also use it to fuck over town getting qts if akane/cdb was clearly the lynch and decided to self-hammer right after using it.

also, whats a QH

[Gammagooey]

i mean i kinda just went over why I thought bulge was town so yeah thats not happening

[Gammagooey]

also its possible that it happened already and i just missed it but i could really use a why for people thinking cdb's town for anything except role reasons (i understand the argument for it but really think that argument is completely and utterly wrong)

[Gammagooey]

also*infinity @cdb

I don't mean to be mean but parama brought up two scumteams waaaaaay long ago and unless you have a theory that results in *this person is <third party role> because these reasons* I'm basically just going to be rolling my eyes at you every time you bring it up because I think it's kind of ridiculous.

[Gammagooey]

@cdb- already brought up parama and nm both wanting me dead when I replaced in and the interactuons with paramit I have when I voted him yesterday, those are the two really big things imo

There being a 3rd party just doesnt make sense balancewise or flavorwise. For the game not to be over, It has to be antitown. There have been zero kills in this game, and a solo antitown faction without one is actually just a one person second mafia faction, which is super dumb with a two man mafia team in the game.

And the only flavor person it could be is Zero, and since you just changed someones bracelet to zero, that points to either zero not being a player in the game, or you being zero. So.

[Gammagooey]

Just pretend that every post I make starts with also at this point

I keep bringing up yesterday cause I kinda feel theres a lot of stuff that should be realizations or lessons from what went down

One of those things being that if you think something super crazy is happening based on your reads maybe your reads are just wrong?

You ninjaed me but I think this should generally answer your question anyway so yep

[Gammagooey]

Like ill elaborate a little to make what im saying a little clearer in regards to the question

So assuming youre town the thing you should be doing is just going back and looking at the game assuming that your dealbreakers are just wrong. Go back and reread and see if you can figure out why they could be wrong and who would make sense as scum if that were the case.

[Gammagooey]

Bins is admittedly the one person i havent gone into rereading recently but I still think shes real town for d1 play and how she claimed vanilla cop to try and stop my lynch when everyone thought a roleblocker existed.

Also if you want something that might be an obv connection akane+paramas voting together for bad reasons to lynch not_mafia seems reeeal bad now that we know that parama was bussing there.

Godamn that is some post there reck, reading in a sec

[Gammagooey]

to be fair it is a lot more reasonable than 3rd party junk

it still feels a lot like trying to change the situation to make your views fit instead of chaning your views to make them fit the situation though

[Gammagooey]

aaalso unless you think bins is the traitor having a vanilla cop and a traitor in the same game does seem pretty weird

[Gammagooey]

Godamn that is some post there reck, reading in a sec

About this, Gamma...?

yeah i read it and then considered posting about it and then kinda went 'eh.'

i agree with N_M's shot not making sense with quil/bulge as his partner and went on about that a bit day 3 i think? and generally agree with what you're saying there.

still think cdb/akane makes way more sense as scum than bins does and am probably going to restate my case on him sooniiiiish (if thursday isnt too close to deadline probably then, otherwise probably tonight) just so it's all consolidated together instead of being spread throughout the thread.

[Gammagooey]

oh yeah only other thing i wanted to say is that effort as a tell in this part of the game is not something you should be going by

cause it is generally but this game is no longer 'generally' with one scum among 5 people and 3 lynches.

[Gammagooey]

So I went over a bins a bit and some more old stuff and I get why reck suspects her but I still really don't think she's scum here

yes a sizeable portion of this is me thinking that bins claiming how and why and the way she did is SUPER MAXIMUM TOWN MINDSET FOREVER but also her stubbornness yesterday feels way more likely to be coming from town than scum. And yeah STRATEGICALLY it's better for scum to act the way she did but in practice I've seen town unable to let go of their reads much much more often.

After looking back at Grib's iso I see why he thinks it's likely to be akane or bins from that instead of just akane like I thought earlier and I don't think there's really enough there to justify thinking it's more likely to be akane than bins if you're JUST going with that.

I THINK CDB IS SCUM WORDS

-as I already mentioned I think Akane's early catchup posts pushing for Reck+Flames but attacking Parama a bit right after is scummy

-I really dislike Akane's vote with Parama on N_M for the exact same reasons he made, it feels a lot like a bus to get rid of the primary person who suspected Akane

-I'm kind of surprised the CDB never really seemed to get what I was saying about Parama's comments on me not meshing together with his thoughts on my play, and him using Parama as most likely not-mafia-but-still-scum as a reason for voting him feels like justifying backtracking on the read

-I think the tone she had in the midgame with posts like http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p6159337 and http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p6215344 pushing on me and reck is pretty bad, the way she says them it feels like she's putting a lot of emphasis on 'if this is the case it'll be really bad and so they're scum' instead of pushing on us because she really believed it

-And lastly this is kind of confirmation bias-y but I don't like the multiscum/3rd party speculation in general, i know it can come from either alignment but with parama doing it already this game and it happening in Reckoning Invitational with Nuwen giving it as a reason why she thought Fate was scum early I think it might actually be a minor scumtell.
-----------------------

I'll be technically around but I have a lot of stuff to get done tomorrow so don't expect me to be posting much more until thursday night.

[Gammagooey]

uggggh.

There was nothing about Bulge implicated in the modpost but obviously I have no idea of any of the details. I'll assume things aren't compromised until told differently.

pretty much this though

in better news CDB I failed to get you killed again in X-Com so go pick another promotion

[Gammagooey]

2-vote: Gammagooey, The Bulge, CDB

(9+0+2=11->1+1=2)

I would Very much rather not compromise on CDB but I guess I'll consider it if one of you two actually goes through her iso and point out what interactions from her you think are coming from scum.

[Gammagooey]

no, i'm not going to vote her because her posts recently have been mediocre and complain-y and she thinks you're scum because rolezzz

if you want me to vote her go through her iso and tell me what she's done that look like scum interactions with flipped scum (i'd actually be pretty okay with you pointing out interactions between her and other players too but pointing to her opinion about you is not good enough here)

[Gammagooey]

youuu're gonna have to wait a bit then, sorry friend

[Gammagooey]

yes plz

[Gammagooey]

there's no rules against dice tags, i got this. MAXIMUM HONOR SYSTEM ENGAGE.

WINNER:

Original Roll String: 1d3

1 3-Sided Dice: (2) = 2

(1 is me, 2is reck, 3 is cdb)

[Gammagooey]

RECK IS THE WINNER

One of CDB and me is the banana, and the other is the loser

who the banana is will be hidden in this SUPER SECRET SPOILER TAG THAT RECK IS NOT ALLOWED TO LOOK AT (1 is i'm the banana, 2 is cdb is the banana)

Spoiler: DONT LOOK RECK

Original Roll String: 1d2

1 2-Sided Dice: (2) = 2

[Gammagooey]

hey

reck

hey

hey

hey

reck hey

reck

hey reck

hey

reck

reck

hey reck

i'm the banana

[Gammagooey]

like if there were a scale

and you put a banana on it

and then put back the banana

and then got a different banana and put it on the scale

and then chose a third banana instead without weighing it

I would be all of those bananas

[Gammagooey]

like if you'll notice

cdb isn't the banana

because i'm the banana

these are high-level strategies being shared with the crowd today

[Gammagooey]

h8er

[Gammagooey]

;-;

pie don't be hatin'

pie no

[Gammagooey]

my opinion on the game is pretty summed up here http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p6261766

last game day seems real important to me, day 2 less so but also important, day 1 really only useful for connection stuff i think if you're just skimming through the thread now

[Gammagooey]

fuuucking avatar switches

[Gammagooey]

To play devils advocate we can lynch anyone if 3/4 of us agree

But I do think a bins replacement would be a pretty good thing to exist before the deadline expires

[Gammagooey]

Also have I mentioned how much I really dislike akanes posts about 'we should lynch x because if theyre scum itd be awful'

Because I really think that type of mindset while trying to get someone lynched is more likely to come from scum than town

Also the answer to my first question is 'yes gamma, you have' but I wanted ro reiterate it

[Gammagooey]

If cdb is scum btw im going to dance around my apartment when he flips

Im not faraday so I wont record it but you can imagine it

[Gammagooey]

uh

yeah i cant say im surprised

vote cdb 2014

for winning games

for curing cancer

for WINNING AMERICA

[Gammagooey]

wait the votecount reset

pie's a jerk, i am totally first on this wagon for all of history's purposes

VOTE: Vote: CDB[/b]

[Gammagooey]

wow

VOTE: CDB

[Gammagooey]

i feel that's not actually a good reason for voting cdb yourself but CDB FOR SCUM FOR AMERICA is still something that's true so lets go flips

[Gammagooey]

no seriously can we win the game now

cause i feel like we do

[Gammagooey]

FUCK YES

[Gammagooey]

like seriously this is the best game i have probably ever played on this site

i am sorry cdb that you were a serial killer when i thought you were just another mafia scums

but seriously holy fuck this game

[Gammagooey]

NO YOU'RE A JERK FOR TRYING TO LYNCH BINS BEFORE CDB

I MEAN SHE DESERVED IT APPARENTLY BUT STILL ALWAYS LYNCH SCUMS NEVER LYNCH NOT SCUMS

[Gammagooey]

oh god cdb had a davig

so that was lylo we were just in

jeeeeeeeesus

[Gammagooey]

i am clearly the one to root for

L-1 for THREE DAYS STRAIGHT and then lynching the last mafia and the SK back to back

godamn right

[Gammagooey]

also i am being real cocky

but i am equally drunk

so deal /w it

[Gammagooey]

"so Gamma either hard-derped the math or intentionally sabotaged it, probably the former "

yeppp

also yeah

please calm down more when people are insulted by you insulting them next time reck
pretty please

[Gammagooey]

oh i said id dance around my apartment and i havent done that yet

brb

[Gammagooey]

I feel like this wasn't really a typical game but godamn was this game a lot more stressful than it needed to be to actually enjoy it a lot of the time

thanks for playing akane and everyone else, i might bug you for the next marathon game since that'll be a lot sillier and lot less time-intensive than this

and pie thanks for modding through this clusterfuck, the friendly neighbor junk was a bit weird but you were pretty awesome with keeping up with everything and the setup junk got way way more credence than it should have IMO.