Doubles Mafia Day 2/ Day 2

[Churros]

on the contrary, there's nothing less fun to me than people who rush something out of impatience when if they would only take their time they might end up winning.

It's a 290 page game, it must be frustating to you since you would like to catch up on everything and have clear thoughts before we progress, but it would be lame to most of us, I think.

I don't see the point of waiting so much for a single flip.

I would have another opinion if we didn't have the advantage as we've now, but at the moment no.

[Churros]

Can you hammer then?

he's not at L-1. bbmolla is voting him, churros is voting him, nero is voting him. farside is voting bbmolla, and gobble is still voting me i believe.

Vote: nm

Do it!

vote:bb

If you're town...can you stop...

[Churros]

on the contrary, there's nothing less fun to me than people who rush something out of impatience when if they would only take their time they might end up winning.

that being said, i am fine with NM being lynched here.

i share the exact same sentiment, the same happened with jjh (unintentionally) and Titus (intentionally) and what info did it give?
I am actually against lynching N_M right now, but whatever

Titus/JJH was a bit silly because they weren't major tensions in their games, but NM is a slot that is been voted forever and would progress the game in a linear way.

NM lynch must happen and I see no reason to delay it.

[Churros]

You have a unique ability to enrage me with the slightest of comments.

What

gives you the indication that I am not caught up with this game?

Hmm

is this to me or Nero?

or both

[Churros]

Can you hammer then?

he's not at L-1. bbmolla is voting him, churros is voting him, nero is voting him. farside is voting bbmolla, and gobble is still voting me i believe.

Vote: nm

Do it!

vote:bb

Sorry this game has me wishing for a deadline.
I still think bb is scum and i jave no clue who nsg is scum reading because she doesn't say

would anyone else care to comment on this progression?

I thought it was either BB/Nero or NM/Farside and I'm beginning to think the later might be the right solve.

But I could see farside doing this as town with how weird some of her posts are.

I'm curious about NM flip now...

[Churros]

That vote switch is really puzzling though

The more I play mafia the more I don't get how some people think.

[Churros]

If I was to take this game seriously, these are my real reads

[NSG, TH]
[everyone else] - null
[Cakez, NM] - scum lean

There gobble, a real readlist. I want to rethink my Gobble/BB reads right now.

[Churros]

my Nero/BB reads I meant*.

I'm a bit tired, I don't want to push them anymore before seeing other flips.

[Churros]

If Cakez flips town in Halloween I'll try hard this game. My reads on TH/NSG are probably not changing, they are my unique actually solid reads.

All the other were mostly me defaulting to who didn't seem a cakez buddy or etc.

[Churros]

NSG, is it too much if I ask you to vote NM since you're fine with lynching him?

If both NM and Cakez flips town, I'll stop rushing this, sit down and begin to properly look back.

[Churros]

Trivia thought but NSG looks more lawyer-like every day. Hmm.

[Churros]

Can you hammer then?

he's not at L-1. bbmolla is voting him, churros is voting him, nero is voting him. farside is voting bbmolla, and gobble is still voting me i believe.

Vote: nm

Do it!

vote:bb

Sorry this game has me wishing for a deadline.
I still think bb is scum and i jave no clue who nsg is scum reading because she doesn't say

would anyone else care to comment on this progression?

i think your town. I want people to vote me and when i flip town vote bb.

Im not changing my vote till it happens

[Churros]

My reads are as they are in my read list

I've no motivation to sort through the nulls/non-solid reads at the moment.

You technically could say your list on me is wrong

[Churros]

Gobbles/NSG are probably town as much as Gobbles insistence on NM bothers me

if NM is scum Farside is the partner most likely

[Churros]

does Churros trying to rush this day phase remind you of his play towards the tail end of Baton Pass?

My Mini Normal 2124 ISO (most recent town completed game):

My first question to this lobby is, if Farkran info about the setup is true, and there's both a Even-Gunsmith and "Disloyal" Friendly Neighbor claimed, why you didn't instantly lynch the FN.

^ FN was FL

Flavor Leaf

has been lynched, he was a

Mafia 1-Shot Ninja

had my PoE later down to [Kerset, Power27] after the flip

Kerset how can I convince you to self vote if you're not gonna vote Power27

Kerset you really have no reason to not self-hammer as either alignment to be fair if you aren't gonna case Power

Power is being lynched next if you're town

I want you to self hammer to end this game already

As long as scum is in you/Power it's already game over, whoever of you is mafia should have conceived...

Power, you should gamethrow as well.

Everyone should gamethrow.

VOTE: churros

power27

has been lynched, he was a

Mafia Goon

[Churros]

NSG...can you do the formality...

[Churros]

Yeah Cakez, I feel the same.

[Churros]

Farside, that's hammer.

If you're scum with NM, it's truly over.

The wagon is

BBMolla, Churros, Nero, Gobble, NSG

Five, it's hammer.

Were you scum with NM?

[Churros]

Be honest and release us from the suffering if you were Farside.

I'm not playing any tricks, if NM is scum this game is over but I can only see you as a NM partner now.

p-edit: Ok, gonna wait for Jingle in that case but I believe NM was town if you aren't his partner.

[Churros]

If Farside isn't the partner NM was likely town.

Last possibility would be Wonderwall/NM but what are the chances.

[Churros]

Good game everybody!

I have many thoughts to share in postgame.

You were scum?

[Churros]

WW/NM?

woah.

[Churros]

My opinion of Cephir went to rock bottom now though

He literally began to insult people in game because they were scum reading him and even left with "fuck you all" as scum being scum read.

I hadn't thought he would be that kind of person, but surprise I guess?

We're free now though!!!

Sorry Cakez.

[Churros]

WW/NM?

woah.

Incorrect!

I will wait for the formal reveal for our last partner to be revealed.

Uhh...I would lol if it's NSG.

Uhh...I'm going to strike out Farside being scum for now.

Uhh...

did someone lol buss one away from victory...?

p-edit: damn yshlota

[Churros]

Trolls are the most evil people in mafiascum.net

Yshlota, if that was fake it's going to break my heart

[Churros]

It's...probably NSG in that case?

What a surprise...

[Churros]

wow you were Cakez

sorry I had probably the complete wrong profile from you

I'll probably do better our next time

individually I wouldn't scum read you this hard but I had a different impression from the town game I saw from you

complete different impression...

[Churros]

I mean

I can't see this as other than scum!NSG giving up with a hammer if it's not Farside or WW.

It would require scum to lol buss one away from loss and that would be beyond stupid but I guess not impossible.

[Churros]

NSG would hammer a buddy in that situation maybe because it was impossible to make a comeback from the wagon

I can't see a good reason to any other person vote NM as a buddy

but who knows I guess.

[Churros]

i would never ever play against wincondition.

Sorry in that case.

I for one would give up as a buddy here probably in this gamestate.

I guess my TR on you was right in that case, I'm glad.

But...it does mean someone played against their own wincon...

or am I missing someone

[Churros]

in fairness, BB does tunnel as scum so maybe Far is right and it was a BB/NM team

I'm going to facepalm.

hard.

[Churros]

This game was very rough to the point where I don't think playing to the top of my scumrange on Blake would be enough to win. The town win condition is cruel.

But why? All you had to do was lynch Eve or Baezu here, then take us to LyLo with SirCakez.
He always votes us over you there. I always vote him over you.

I think you underestimate how many people I would expect to immediately scumread me for not dying.

I wouldn't SR your slot because I was like "No way Cephir does this as scum" to be fair, if you were including me on this.

In hindsight I should stop these reads if you were really scum, because in fact I only got it right once with that thing, and got it wrong far more often.

[Churros]

I think the game works fine if the town win condition is based on two scum deaths in the same game.

This game suddenly becomes very winnable under those circumstances.

I agree.

I wouldn't put as much stock in bussing being anti-associative in this universe though.

I only thought bussing was very anti-associative here because the win condition punished bussing brutally. Especially given 2 partners wouldn't likely get credit for a bus.

[Churros]

If it's BB/NM we would win either way to be honest in xmas, I think.

I guess it's fun to know my BB read was probably right? I never thought he would bus this way though.

Very sub-optimal play though if it's the case, he totally could have done Nero/Elmo today and 1v1 me or Farside tomorrow.

weird game if it's this team...

[Churros]

Yeah...I'm gonna say I'm a bit skeptical of that team.

[Churros]

Churros, I don't think I or really anyone let's Nero die in our game.

he could have killed the slot even before Nero replaced in.

[Churros]

sigh

we wait Jingle now.

[Churros]

Yshlota confirmed it's not Farside/WW.

[Churros]

But I've trouble understanding who is BB partner if he's scum and isn't awfully bussing his partner one away from victory to town.

This is funny in hindsight

[Churros]

Large games are torture.

Too many people. Too little cohesion.

[Churros]

The more players you've, the less each individual has agency in the game progress, and it means that if there isn't a strong consensus, the game is going to be pushed into many different directions at the same time. It was better than a normal large since the playerlist was divided into half, but still awful.

Having so many players agree on something is so exhausting. It's why larges have such a high scum winrate compared to other queues as well. Most of the early lynches happens on slots with a non-charismatic playstyle/naturally scummy/lurky.

[Churros]

I failed to reconsider win conditions after removing a central mechanic

shuffle on playerlists?

[Churros]

Ok my SR on Cakez was wrong but my second hard SR was right

50% accuracy is ok enough in my book

Farside this is actually kinda funny in hindsight

You and me Farside

Back to back.

Gotta catch 'em all.

[Churros]

damn bb

why you messed my solve with awful bussing...

I thought it was one active slot + one lurky slot in the [BB, Farside, NM, Elmo]. If you had voted Elmo like you were supposed to as described in your wincon, I would have got BB/NM right since I thought you were more likely scum than Farside.

very sad

don't push town wincon as scum in a no-bussing setup guys...

[Churros]

My Cakez read was beyond saving this game though, I would never have believed he was town before the flip.

When I was considering my teams, I thought he wasn't likely partnered with NM but not sure if it was enough for me to override my gut there.

I guess if it was two different games, I lose Halloween and win Xmas.

[Churros]

In hindsight to rebalance the setup I would have chosen one of the following:

3 scum lynched instead of two, masons -> neighbors.
All scum lynched.
Return nsg's role to the original state (swap any two players in games every night, compulsive (Note: this change was to swap one player with self slightly before the review process started).

I think for a first run setup with this style, the first would be my preference, just because the game was more complicated than I expected even without swapping games.

I'd also like to congratulate the scum team for making it as far as they did when they were fighting against what was a pretty stacked town player list in addition to a ridiculous amount of town power. Even coming near the finish line was impressive as hell.

3 scum lynched/no masons would be very balanced as in 50/50 I think.

Maybe slightly scum sided given that you could completely win one game but it wouldn't be a town win yet.

I think that vanilla setup + you need to lynch the whole team in one game is even better balance, maybe.

[Churros]

Out of curiosity, what did people think about the mechanics?

Was the mutual game thread idea fun?
Was the open thread during night fun?
I see the no deadline consensus seems to be antifun.

no deadline wouldn't be as bad if it was cleared from the beginning there was no need to pause one game to play the other one.

I thought the entire purpose of this game was to have both games played concurrently and you wouldn't create a mechanic which would counter the very spirit of the setup. That's why I never cared about the fearmongering on mechanics, but most people did.

[Churros]

RC was really a cop. What.

[Churros]

I thought NSG had been saved, not the other way around.

weird.

[Churros]

Pilling nightkills is completely unpredictable and not what I would consider good design

I don't see Jingle doing that

[Churros]

that's it here I guess...

[Churros]

Nancy, let's not...

I don't think anyone other than Titus had perfect reads here and I'm not sure Titus's read on shuichi hadn't some luck on it given she didn't read the game but only did VCA, that is kind of hit or miss although she can correct me on it herself now.

It was a good read though.

But yeah, let's not do that. WANH played well especially given they were one of the reasons we lynched Lie Ren at all.

[Churros]

Nancy reading you right has 0 to do to the grand scale of things. WANH was a huge help to town here, tunneling your slot or not.

[Churros]

I’m glad you’d be cool with being deathtunnelled and discredited all damn game, I’m not.

[Churros]

Gamma played fine

I'm only still a bit in disbelief that BB had so many other wagons to join but persistently choose his buddy one away from defeat.

It's such...puzzling play. BB, when you get here, what were you thinking persistently voting NM today...? (It wasn't only once, he insisted on NM multiple times)

You had...so many opportunities to go elsewhere.

so many...

why...

...why...

if you think about it, if BB hadn't bussed, we would probably not have reached L-1 in NM, he wouldn't have claimed in such a nonsense way, and he might not even be lynched since people wanted to do halloween first.

The game ending this early...is because scum bussed themselves when they had 0, exactly 0 incentive, to do so. They had even a shot on winning in halloween, and pushing me would be pretty good once cakez/eve flipped town.

why...

I'm in a spiral to understand this...

[Churros]

Towards the end of the day before the night we were killed, I was trying to figure out how to make WANH more scummy and it failed.

I do think I know what you're going for bitmap

but it's not gonna work probably

[Churros]

I was like "bitmap sure is cute, but it's too late probably"

[Churros]

If we had gotten Elmo lynched there was a possible path to victory

yeah that's why I thought it was confusing for you to vote NM :'/

But I guess...maybe I see where you are coming from...

[Churros]

Good game, this game was depressing

It was.

I'm glad it ended.

[Churros]

if only I shit posted more. Then u all would have had fun.

I had fun shit posting at least.

Your hydra was the most fun slot yes

Eve the second

[Churros]

Gamma played fine

I'm only still a bit in disbelief that BB had so many other wagons to join but persistently choose his buddy one away from defeat.

It's such...puzzling play. BB, when you get here, what were you thinking persistently voting NM today...? (It wasn't only once, he insisted on NM multiple times)

You had...so many opportunities to go elsewhere.

so many...

why...

...why...

if you think about it, if BB hadn't bussed, we would probably not have reached L-1 in NM, he wouldn't have claimed in such a nonsense way, and he might not even be lynched since people wanted to do halloween first.

The game ending this early...is because scum bussed themselves when they had 0, exactly 0 incentive, to do so. They had even a shot on winning in halloween, and pushing me would be pretty good once cakez/eve flipped town.

why...

I'm in a spiral to understand this...

Look back at the parts where the teams were set as Me/Nero Churros/NM

The goal was to make it one of the town vs scum on the other side

Which turned into scum vs scum

Which meant sure, I could unvote and believe that NM is suddenly town

But not in a believable way, and then we would have to wait for the WW person to replace in

If the bus had worked it would have been a game winning play

But it didn’t

So my bad NM and Yshtola

I see what you might be going for but that was really a lot more risky/low reward in my opinion than getting Elmo lynch when I wagoned him and later 1v1 with me or going along with gobbles, flipping Cakez and discrediting me later.

But hm, I understand your pov.

[Churros]

Jingle, we aren't getting scum PT?

I was interested on reading it to better understand some questions I've about the game in my mind.