Mini Normal 2160 | FIA Group B | Endgame

[Billy Pilgrim]

I feel kind of ok with town!billy. like I think somewhere around

SS


duck
billy
una/iv/nm
four
froppy

What the actual fuck got.you to town me because you've been on me since D1 and now im second in your list?

[Billy Pilgrim]

third*

Yeah, s_S was soooo far up the list that it fucked with my counting. Btw, lillith setting me up to so flagrantly misrep like that clearly locks her as scum.

[Billy Pilgrim]

It’s literally “ok I townread duck and I think his townread on you is ok so you’re slightly more town than null.” I don’t actually have a townread on you.

This makes me feel better about your read on me, because otherwise I felt like it had to be scum!you just sort of resigning yourself to not getting to mis-elim me.

[Billy Pilgrim]

I'm fine launching Shelly into orbit unless something happens that redeems that slot.

I'm also sort of stuck on this day and this game is getting over my head and I'm feeling more useless.

[Billy Pilgrim]

N_M is town is FourEyes is town, but other than that, those two can still theoretically fling either way.
And N_M is as blank of a slate as I have ever seen. Again.

Isn't this the other way around? Green FourEyes locks N_M green. But Green N_M doesn't say anything about Four.

[Billy Pilgrim]

N_M is town is FourEyes is town, but other than that, those two can still theoretically fling either way.
And N_M is as blank of a slate as I have ever seen. Again.

Isn't this the other way around? Green FourEyes locks N_M green. But Green N_M doesn't say anything about Four.

Isn't that what he said? I think it should read N_M is town

if

I'm town.

I know we're both town anyway because I'm good at the readin.

See that was a typo that was meaningful. I read that as NM town is/= Four town which was backwards.

[Billy Pilgrim]

I kinda need the day to end. I'd vote for either Noname or Shelly.

[Billy Pilgrim]

here if it wasn't hammer this is. The day needs to be over.

VOTE: Shelly

Hope you're scum.

[Billy Pilgrim]

I feel bad because I said that on your birthday.

You're also old.

Oh shit if he's old I must be.....

[Billy Pilgrim]

happy birthday ducky.

[Billy Pilgrim]

also that’s not like 100% true? if mwnn is town then NM is town, but if mwnn is scum then NM’s alignment isn’t guaranteed?

This is true, which is why i think we elim MWNN. It either flips green and confirms NM which leaves us a pool of (Lillith, Ducky, me, IV, and Una) -1 to sort in 5p Limlo. Or it flips red. We're down to 1 scum. We flip NM tomorrow and we sort in that same pool of 5 minus 2 in 3p Limlo.

[Billy Pilgrim]

innocentvillager - vt
TheFourEyedDude - informed NM is town
Billy Pilgrim -
UnaBombaH -
the worst - vt
Not_Mafia replaces LavarManos -
lilith2013 -

shellyc - vt
Something_Smart - n1,4 cop
Nepenthes - tracker
NorwegianboyEE - vt
PookyTheMagicalBear - rolecop
plusJOYED - n2,3 neap


fill me in pls

I already claimed VT on D1.

[Billy Pilgrim]

sure.

he has had a guilty conscience at one point in this game. based on your skimming of his personality, why is that, and what does it say about his alignment?

do you think his push on shelly is consistent with his town tone?

pedit: sorry iv, i'm afraid.

Can you point me to the guilty conscience?

[Billy Pilgrim]

town!four -> town!nm. town!una. leaving duck/billy/iv. I don't think there's, like, any expectation that billy/iv as remaining scum survive this long. do all roads lead back to scum!duck?

pedit: as I've said before, I am absolute shit at reading crumbs

Shit it may be ducky. Ducky sees that I'm vt on D1 and thinks he can drag me to ELO, buddy me, and have me mis-elim someone.

[Billy Pilgrim]

I'm honestly thinking IV should be lynched today.
I do not feel like risking it for the biscuit on a MWNN-lynch, because it would most likely mean that I'm mislynched tomorrow.
Upon IV flipping red, it would still require for others to come around on scum!Ducky, but I guess it's more reasonable then than it is now.

IV -> Ducky is my most reasonable solve for now.
MWNN -> Ducky/N_M is like the far far back-in-line 2nd.

We should try and have a discussion about Billy if ANYONE scumreads them here, and maybe see whether there's something to see or just townlock them universally.

I'm pissed that we didn't have that discussion on my slot on D1. That was literally the point of my falling on the sword. But whatever, yeah, sort me. As I said on D1, it definitely made me uneasy the way that IV pushed to elim IV while leaving me in the scumpool after I had claimed. But like no one wanted to go along with that.

[Billy Pilgrim]

I'm fine eliminating IV except for one thing: everyone except for BP has said they're willing to elim IV today. And BP hasn't posted today. so we gotta go deeperer

You don't think scum is gonna at least be open to bussing today?

[Billy Pilgrim]

also that’s not like 100% true? if mwnn is town then NM is town, but if mwnn is scum then NM’s alignment isn’t guaranteed?

This is true, which is why i think we elim MWNN. It either flips green and confirms NM which leaves us a pool of (Lillith, Ducky, me, IV, and Una) -1 to sort in 5p Limlo. Or it flips red. We're down to 1 scum. We flip NM tomorrow and we sort in that same pool of 5 minus 2 in 3p Limlo.

ok: sort that pool for me.

The same way i sort every pool, guess and pray.

But seriously, if MWNN is towni could see a you and IV team or a Lillith and IV team. So I'd probably elim IV and see where things are at if the game isn't over. Im sorta locked into town!Una at the moment.

[Billy Pilgrim]

IV and either Una/the worst is my best guess.

I think Una is a better chance, I know I'm town and if the town power is too high, it has to be his slot, then.

Why is Lillith clear?

[Billy Pilgrim]

What if its a Lillith/IV scum team and they just couldn't figure out how to reposition around my eating the sword D1? Because both of them did the scummiest thing possible which was to keep me as a scumread and in their elim pool while pushing elsewhere to eliminate D1. They both did it, and i said it on D1 and I haven't really changed my mind on that, I think thats scummy as hell.

[Billy Pilgrim]

IV and either Una/the worst is my best guess.

I think Una is a better chance, I know I'm town and if the town power is too high, it has to be his slot, then.

Why is Lillith clear?

Because she's been playing like town, I think.

But y tho?

[Billy Pilgrim]

Can everyone say who they would unequivocally keep out of a 3 person poe? Like no chance in hell you'd allow this person to be in a 3 person poe.

[Billy Pilgrim]

VOTE: duck

Lillith pointing out the way duck flopped on Zombie while saying he thought S_S's was a guilty i think thats it. If not, I think im gonna go IV then Lillith.

[Billy Pilgrim]

I'm townreading Una based on the mechanics. So if i townread Una he's probably dead by endgame. So we kill MWNN today. If he flips green then NM is conf town. Im pretty sure we kill IV tomorrow, because i don't think a duck/lillith team is the one. Then, assuming Una and NM are the nks, I have to pick between duck and lillith in endgame.

If MWNN is scum then I think we policy NM tomorrow (hope it flips red) but if not we have an elo between 2 of the 3 slots (ducky, lillith, IV) that I can't sort. So fun. But I do think it means its the right play. No one has solid reads. No one is really excluding anyone from their pool. It would be nice to get the conf town slot even if it is NM.

VOTE: MWNN

BTW, if youre townreading me for having no agenda thats probably bad. I dont really play scum with an agenda. Check my most recent completed newbie game..

[Billy Pilgrim]

Lillith, do you have an issue with my proposal on who to elim?

[Billy Pilgrim]

clearly, yes.

So who do you think the team is?

[Billy Pilgrim]

it's mwnn + billy or nm

I dont see how you can come to this solve in good faith at all.

[Billy Pilgrim]

like.... are you reading any of my posts????

I'm reading them, and then I'm forgetting them. Sorry.

[Billy Pilgrim]

so I'm back to {duck, una, iv, billy} and mostly una is out of the poe so it's kind of down to {duck, iv, billy}

If you've explained why you think MWNN is town here, could you point me to it? Because hell I'll give you your three person poe including me if you sell me on that. And you can have me first. I just don't wanna lose to scum!MWNN when I kinda thought he was scum since day 1 before the claim. And while I think the claim is a weird one for scum, I dont think it can't come from scum. Amd him saying earlier that NM being alive is an insurance policy for him is sorta concerning... Look, you sell me on him being town, and then my only hangup is the possibility that you're scum. And I think the only way I'd end up voting you is if you were in 3p ELO with me and Una or a conf!town NM. Im voting for IV and duck over you everytime. So you sell me on him and we can elim IV and ducky.

Look, if Una's scum im a liability. I dont see a scum role that checks the claimed pr N1 aside from roleblocker/rolecop. And I dont think that theres a setup with a scum and town rolecop. If someone thinks I'm wrong on either of those please let me know.

[Billy Pilgrim]

I also don’t think anyone realistically thinks I’m scum the way billy seems to be weirdly side-scumreading me, but it’s such a bad take that idk how to read it.

Its more a end of poe than anything else.

[Billy Pilgrim]

billy, can you explain why you think mwnn is scum? why am I in your POE if you think mwnn is scum, do you think we could be partners?

I dont necessarily see you partnered with MWNN, but im generally not looking for pre-flip associations. Im hoping that slot flips red, but if it does and then NM flips green, im gonna have to re-read him. You were only in my poe if MWNN was off the table by the way. If we're treating MWNN as town then three elims included you basically because town MWNN means town NM and im hard townreading Una on mech. So that means both scum have to be in you, iv, and ducky. Gun to head, id put you last there, but frankly I dont care because if MWNN as long as the three elims are in that pool it's autowin.

[Billy Pilgrim]

MWNN and una, but if una is scum here then fuck me.

[Billy Pilgrim]

it's mwnn + billy or nm

I dont see how you can come to this solve in good faith at all.

very slowly, and while grimacing.
can you pls critique it and not just shade me

Because you know im not a big advocate of bussing. In fact I only do it when I'm forced into it. Why would I have pushed MWNN as hard as I did D1 if thats one of my partners. Like, that pairing for me specifically doesn't make any sense, and the reason I said it doesnt feel in good faith is because of your history with me.

[Billy Pilgrim]

I also don’t think anyone realistically thinks I’m scum the way billy seems to be weirdly side-scumreading me, but it’s such a bad take that idk how to read it.

Its more a end of poe than anything else.

aren't... you voting me?

I moved onto MWNN and I dont understand why you would respond to this interaction between me and lillith the the comment that im voting you.

[Billy Pilgrim]

guess who's gonna wait for zombapoc to fullclaim
THIS GUY

masterpiece

it was but what are you like.. claiming

So is this some sort of cop claim? What does the ice cream mean? And gated to n2 and n3?

I'm a night 2, 3 neapolitan cop
because neopolitan ice cream

guess who's gonna wait for zombapoc to fullclaim
THIS GUY

there you go

good claim
VOTE: Nep

good soft/crumb, I should say

VOTE: zombie

explain pls iv

Why would a neopolitan and a role cop both be in town?

UNVOTE:

Someone smarter than me explain

- how was zombie’s claim a “good claim” when you

admitted

that nothing about that claim was required to be a town role?
- why did you vote zombie over nepenthes in the first place? did that reason disappear because he claimed? did you disagree with SS that it was worth giving nepenthes another day to clear herself? was your scumread on nepenthes that strong?
- why did you go immediately from voting zombie to voting elsewhere and questioning iv for voting zombie? again, what about that claim made you think he was town (or worth defending)?

other thoughts (not directed to duck): thought it was super weird that mwnn was like “this role should be scum since town wouldn’t have a rolecop and neapolitan, right?” while simultaneously unvoting the person he said couldn’t be town

Thanks for this. I dont think MWNN is scum now. I dont think scum MWNN reacts to their partners fakeclaim immediately saying its scum based on the setup.

VOTE: IV

[Billy Pilgrim]

it's mwnn + billy or nm

I dont see how you can come to this solve in good faith at all.

very slowly, and while grimacing.
can you pls critique it and not just shade me

Because you know im not a big advocate of bussing. In fact I only do it when I'm forced into it. Why would I have pushed MWNN as hard as I did D1 if thats one of my partners. Like, that pairing for me specifically doesn't make any sense, and the reason I said it doesnt feel in good faith is because of your history with me.

see this is actually a good point.
i'm ... actually calling mwnn/nm the simple solution atp

What do you make of my above point? You think MWNN immediately shades his partner's fakeclaim?

[Billy Pilgrim]

guess who's gonna wait for zombapoc to fullclaim
THIS GUY

masterpiece

it was but what are you like.. claiming

So is this some sort of cop claim? What does the ice cream mean? And gated to n2 and n3?

I'm a night 2, 3 neapolitan cop
because neopolitan ice cream

guess who's gonna wait for zombapoc to fullclaim
THIS GUY

there you go

good claim
VOTE: Nep

good soft/crumb, I should say

VOTE: zombie

explain pls iv

Why would a neopolitan and a role cop both be in town?

UNVOTE:

Someone smarter than me explain

- how was zombie’s claim a “good claim” when you

admitted

that nothing about that claim was required to be a town role?
- why did you vote zombie over nepenthes in the first place? did that reason disappear because he claimed? did you disagree with SS that it was worth giving nepenthes another day to clear herself? was your scumread on nepenthes that strong?
- why did you go immediately from voting zombie to voting elsewhere and questioning iv for voting zombie? again, what about that claim made you think he was town (or worth defending)?

other thoughts (not directed to duck): thought it was super weird that mwnn was like “this role should be scum since town wouldn’t have a rolecop and neapolitan, right?” while simultaneously unvoting the person he said couldn’t be town

Thanks for this. I dont think MWNN is scum now. I dont think scum MWNN reacts to their partners fakeclaim immediately saying its scum based on the setup.

VOTE: IV

I had different thoughts about this almost immediately after I posted because I read lilliths thoughts about it and now I can see a way that it could have been a soft bus.

[Billy Pilgrim]

@ work, will be short on replies.
#4980 no
#4981 yes

I cant even begin to pause what these mean.

[Billy Pilgrim]

I do believe we should have a discussion before the end of the day as to whether a rolecop and a neopolitan make sense as two town roles.

We have a mod confirmed rolecop in the setup, an informed townie, we likely have either a tracker or a rolestopper, and perhaps a roleblocker on the side of the mafia, and now a neopolitan claim on limited nights. The neopolitan claim seems out of place to me.

I am not saying that Nep is a bad elimination, in fact, I back it for this day as it stands, but, I'm not ready to end without a discussion of Zombie's claim after a rolecop flip. It seems that once we have a full fledged rolecop, the limited night neopolitan is simply a lower utility to town.

I feel as if that is a scum claim. He may very well have the ability, but it is in favor of the mafia, if he does.

This seem more solvey tw?

This feels like less of a soft bus and more of solving mindset to me.

Re-reading this is increasing my suspicion of lillith though. She votes zombie right after sighing when S_S told her she should be able to mindmeld with him here. Then Zombie claims nea and I dont see a single post from her at that time even interacting with it, and she interacts with literally everything in this game.

Then if im not mistake it was her that said at the beginning of today she wanted to check S_S's posts again today to see if he crumbed a different target.

I think she knew S_S was the cop d2 that got a guilty on Zombie, which is why she voted early, and also why she seemed completely uninterested in that discussion on D2. Then she knew that S_S was a nk target if she couldn't pocket him, which explains why the fuck she was so interested in his read of her.

[Billy Pilgrim]

I want to vote for the Zombie slot but I am aware that N_M is here and despite being town, I fully believe he will hammer this before the player has an opportunity to respond to the question of the legitimacy of his claim

Also this doesnt feel like scum

[Billy Pilgrim]

Yeah, i think im good with this.

VOTE: Lillith

[Billy Pilgrim]

consider the value of NM just pushing billy or probably lolhammering for memes etc. etc.
but that is simultaneously a way to resolve two shitty slots, and the only piece of mechanical information we have left in the game.

pedit: and much more insightfully he stops doing anything as soon as he's not under fire

Sorry for being a shitty slot. This is why I volunteered to eat the D1 elim. I could see i was gonna be useless.

[Billy Pilgrim]

I think Una's vote was hammer. God I hope this slot is scum. Because I don't know wtf the team is if it's green.

[Billy Pilgrim]

so you're going to pretend you didn't just try to push me?

Nah, I did try and push you, but like im never confident in my reads. Im always shocked when I correctly scumread someone. Im probably still pushing you tomorrow, (in case you didn't notice, im still on you). Its just that assuming you are scum i dont know your partner. So do I hope this is red? Yes. Do I think it is? No.

[Billy Pilgrim]

i'm at about

{tw}
{lilith}
{iv?}
{nobody}
{still nobody}
{hello?}
{hello??????}
{una}
{bp}
{mwnn,nm}


mwnn/nm feels like a cheap solve but i'm just not convinced it's not right. if there's a wolf with nm it's necessarily mwnn. if there's a deepwolf with mwnn it's probably una, outlier of iv but i think iv is just town D:

somewhere before here anyway
and yes his push on you was like literally objectively nonsensical

So if MWNN is green, and the solve isn't Una/IV, then one of you saying this is scum.

[Billy Pilgrim]

I was not expecting that night action. I thought for sure Una was gonna die. Shit is the one guy I kept out of the poe scum here? Why do I suck at this game so badly?

[Billy Pilgrim]

Ok i won't be voting una at all today. Probably gonna vote duck. Wamt to hear what IV and Lillith make of the nk.

[Billy Pilgrim]

if worsty and I are scum we would’ve probably just killed una, it’s like his only read and he’s a PR

Other than that probably killing NM seems like the most reasonable play for any other team, bc una is not conftown

No thoughts on what the nk says about Una and his role?

[Billy Pilgrim]

are you saying una isn’t a rolestopper because he rolestopped NM and NM died? Una’s claiming he was roleblocked if so

If that’s not it not sure what you’re getting at

I'm asking what your thoughts are what all the stuff around the NK means for Una's alignment.

[Billy Pilgrim]

are you saying una isn’t a rolestopper because he rolestopped NM and NM died? Una’s claiming he was roleblocked if so

If that’s not it not sure what you’re getting at

I'm asking what your thoughts are what all the stuff around the NK means for Una's alignment.

With* all the stuff around the NK.

[Billy Pilgrim]

am I just being crazy paranoid or do duck and una kind of seem like they’re bussing................

I dodnt think that was outside the realm of possibility.

Ok the other 2 people have weighed in. Theres at least 1 scum in duck and una. Otherwise game would be over.

I find it weird that scum would come into this confused gamestate and bus each other out the gate though..

But here's why I'm voting ducky over una today.

Scum!una doesn't kill N_M tonight when ducky's been...weird about him all game. He holsters, essentially locktowning him at the expense of a nothing slot, and we're in M-ELO and he doesn't have to worry about another explanation because he used his 3 shots.

So im gonna vote duck today, Una isn't locktown here because like this could be theater, but I think he's pretty close.

[Billy Pilgrim]

that explanation also works almost exactly the same if you flip duck and una...?

I dont understand.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Scum!duck doesn't kill N_M tonight when una's been...weird about him all game. We're in M-ELO and he doesn't have to worry about another explanation because he's claimed VT.

But scum!Una couldn't frame scum!Duck. It hinged on Una's rolestopper claim. So the conf!town ending up dead means the claimed protective didnt protect the obvious nk target which automatically raises questions about the claimed protective. And ducky literally came out the gate with that. I dont see how that flips.

[Billy Pilgrim]

interesting take, but like, wifom is a thing?

Of course Wifom is a thing, but I think usually Occam's razor matter more. I get that this site tends to focus more on day play, but you're scum Una here and you have been riding a fakeclaim for like 3 days. All of a sudden you make a night kill that puts you in a completely untenable position that requires someone to look at the NK as a frame? You only need one mis-elim and most people didn't have him in his elim pool. Amd he gated his fakeclaim enough that he didn't have to worry about a night action making sense anymore. Hell and I had him as a hard townread based on the N1 result. So he risks the one strong townread he has (because no one short of ducky in this playlist has experience with me and I've been hot garbage this game so no way does scum!Una think this gambit hard pockets me for 3p ELO.)? Or someone killed NM and did something to mess with his protection to be like where the fuck were you last night? You killed the conf!town. And look who came out the gate with that? Ducky. Which entirely fits with the idea of framing Una for the kill.

I'll wait out of respect since I'm the worst player in this playlist, but I think duck is scum here.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Lillith is taking a break so she has an excuse, but who's your team IV?

[Billy Pilgrim]

Ok i won't be voting una at all today. Probably gonna vote duck. Wamt to hear what IV and Lillith make of the nk.

in short: if you're town you're a literal roadblock. if una is town he's a literal roadblock. pls don't throw, reevaluate.

Dude theres at least 1 scum between you and Una. Otherwise the game would be over. As between him and you, I think you're the scum.

[Billy Pilgrim]

I'm happy as fuck that we've removed the distractions from endgame but I think it's been well fucking documented that I've thought these people were scum, reevaluated, and come back to thinking that I either scumread them or need them dead to solve this game. I have like 1100 posts of pure read fluidity and I've actually been pushing things in this game.

If you think I'm scum over some pseudo lurker whose entire game has been 1) fakeclaiming rolestopper well, 2) deathtunnelling some shitty solve without stopping to reevaluate or attempting to stop any miselims (WHICH HE WOULD THINK ARE MISELIMS IF HE BELIEVED HIS SOLVE) you need to go back to the newbie queue or town of salem

Damnit dude if you're scum this game, you're a dick, cuz this is soke low shit. But I think im townreading this. And like I said, there is at least one scum in you and Una's 1v1. So if youre town, he's scum.

[Billy Pilgrim]

billy can you give your thoughts on the mwnn hammer.

You referring to when Una hammered?

[Billy Pilgrim]

Duck, im way over my head this game and have been so for some time. Your frustration reads as genuine, which is why I flipped you and Una. I felt like I was gonna be a liability D1 here which is why I told people to take me out then. Now we're literally in an endgame situation and I'm stuck making a decision between a fakeclaim that is pretty plausible and the dayplay reads that im never confident with. But I just got sank hardtownreading someone after a perfect fakeclaim in response to a gambit in my last mini normal, but I got lucky that other town were able to save us.

I dont know why I play this game.

Someone needs to tell me scum!Una's role. The reason I hardtownread him was because he was a confirmed pr. And clearly he wasn't a roleblocker because nep got her result. So we got a claimed pr with no detail. Do we think this was a 2 rolecop setup and he rolecopped her n1 to clarify? Like what plausibly makes sense there for a scum role?

[Billy Pilgrim]

Do I think that his hammer on MWNN was great? No, I had been coming around on townreading MWNN at the end of day as well. But it took 4 people to kill MWNN, and 2 of those people were lillith and ducky. So like why is IV so invested in using the fact that Una homered as a cudgel?

[Billy Pilgrim]

maybe he's a mafia night restricted JOAT n5 cop n6 lightning rod n7 vig

Like do you think this is scum!me and im fucking with you, or do you think I've got a data point that I think is meaningful and im confused why no one else is taking it seriously?

[Billy Pilgrim]

maybe he's a mafia night restricted JOAT n5 cop n6 lightning rod n7 vig

Like do you think this is scum!me and im fucking with you, or do you think I've got a data point that I think is meaningful and im confused why no one else is taking it seriously?

what's the data point? sorry
i spoke a bit about SS' towncase on Una and like, i think only a very small part of it is actually town indicative, a lot of it is just "true role or good fakeclaim" indicative

He's clearly got some sort of pr. And whatever pr he had targeted nep on N1. And it wasn't a roleblock. I think that means a much greater chance of town than scum. IF its a 2 rolecop setup, which is a big if, why cop nep? You know she's a pr, so I dont see the incentive in copping her. And if it wasn't a rolecop/block then what scum pr targets a detailless pr claim?

I'll go back and look at his EoD reads tomorrow.

[Billy Pilgrim]

what's preventing rolestopper from being a scum role?

I think I remember making this argument on D2, when I was talking about the order of resolving actions and everybody I was an idiot.

[Billy Pilgrim]

the only actual argument we have FOR the existence of a roleblocker is that una is claiming to have been blocked on n4

straight up i don't think this setup needs a roleblocker if una is a rolestopper + they have an investigative + whatever the fuck else they have

This isn't really responsive to what I'm saying. My initial townread of Una is based on N1. Period. He did some sort of action on Nepenthes (confirmed town pr) that didn't roleblock her. Now, what scum roles target a claimed pr w/o detail? Roleblockers are obvious (but we know he's not that because Nep got the result). Rolecop is like maybe... what else is there? And if people's defense to my mechanical points are that Una is a rolestopper, just scum, then why does he target the town!pr on N1 rather than one of his partners to block a cop or something?

Am I putting a hell of alot of weight on this one thing? Yes. Because this game is mostly noise for me. But ive got a confirmed townie that tracked him to her on N1. And I dont see alot of scenarios where thats scum. Thats literally why I'm asking for them. And for some reason thats getting mad shade.

[Billy Pilgrim]

idk if you're being deliberately obtuse about this but, like, you know that rolestopper also makes someone ascetic, right??? as in, preventing them from being cleared and/or rolecopped? duck has already mentioned that the pace of clears is really weird given the flips we've had (ungated tracker, ungated rolecop, n1+n4 cop, informed townie). you know what does make sense? a rolestopper that can prevent the number of clears from being gamebreaking in how fast they are..........

Cool, ok, so knowing that, why does he target a claimed town pr on N1 rather than his partner? Like I made these ascetic negative utility arguments on day fucking 2 so im glad now people wanna revisit that discussion. But how does his one confirmed night action fit with that?

[Billy Pilgrim]

i did address the question in 5313 in my epic walls of eye bleeding fury.
if you'd rather not read those, i'm happy to answer summarily.

Just point me to it. Have I gotten through it yet? Or is it ahead of me in my catchup?

[Billy Pilgrim]

also like, it makes sense for scum!rolestopper to target an undefined PR to prevent the town investigatives from clearing the PR claim.

See, this was helpful.

[Billy Pilgrim]

please quote where you made these arguments

Ok went back through my iso. It was D3. And 3887 (this is where inpoint out that it makes the target ascetic), 3890, 3909 (i go through the scum utility of the role), 3922, Una convinces me based on standard doc interaction that its not negative utility.

Sorry, I think I got my days mixed up. That may have been D3.

[Billy Pilgrim]

the game isn't over
I'm finally right
hoooooly fuck

Well, you are sort of clearly scum so the game shouldn't be over yet anyway. And I also see that you have racked some more posts up so maybe I should take some time to post as well, although I feel like it should be better for town to have the other three players sort it out.
If I'm being "fair" and take myself out of the equation for a second - one of us is going to be talking shit anyway, and therefore already might be "WIFOMing stuff" in preparation for tomorrow.
So if Billy/lilith/IV are able to talk things through amongst themselves, I feel like we have a better shot at getting not only todays lynch in order, but also the last one we need for tomorrow.

Ok this is scummy. You don't wanna participate in the solve?

[Billy Pilgrim]

The only other option might be just lynching MWNN - I really dislike their "willingness to be lynched" here.
That would also reveal the "IC" within N_M if that's actually a thing, meaning that I'd have a simple target for my last shot and you'd probably find ME dead tomorrow..but at least you'd have an IC!
...who doesn't...do anything... -_-

Ducky amd IV, is this what you're referring to with respect to his hammer while still scumreading you? Because I at least saw this benefit from flipping MWNN.

[Billy Pilgrim]

@Duck, just read a post that made me think it through again, D1 you had locked Una town if Sirius's slot was town. Why did that change? Was the locking him town just an overstatement?

I haven't gotten through your epic walls yet. I'm at like 5201.

[Billy Pilgrim]

If you think I'm scum over some pseudo lurker whose entire game has been 1) fakeclaiming rolestopper well, 2) deathtunnelling some shitty solve without stopping to reevaluate or attempting to stop any miselims (WHICH HE WOULD THINK ARE MISELIMS IF HE BELIEVED HIS SOLVE) you need to go back to the newbie queue or town of salem

Now this is just rude and blatant Ate..

Oh shit, this feels like him pocketing me.

[Billy Pilgrim]

here you go

Damnit duck, I clicked that link. Ass.

[Billy Pilgrim]

All I can hope for is that Billy isn't swayed by any of this.
I'm afraid that lilith might be.
And to be honest, I wouldn't be losing to a bad player, it's just that I hate losing at all.

If either of you two vote for me, it's over immediately.
If one of you vote for Ducky, the game will not only continue, but it will force IV to either bus Ducky or become obv.scum for tomorrow.

I get fypov why duck is conf!scum to you. Why are you so sold on his partner?

[Billy Pilgrim]

I'd love to have a discussion as well but you aren't bringing anything to the table except NAA wifom................

you've made an effort to paint me as scum but you're unable to actually tell anyone where the read came from or what made you think I was aligned with the mafia and not just like.. bad at mafia or something? and you've also AGAIN continuously failed to act on your read including failing to crossvote me when I originally voted you this phase. your hammer on Mwnn when you were screaming that iv/me was the scumteam, was tantamount to scumclaiming. you haven't had any read progression for like 3 phases except for "duck scum. IV is hard buddying him so hey I guess IV can be scum too."

I'd love to scumcase your play here but you stopped playing mid D2/early d3 and started blatantly tunnelling me while trying to get town elims. :/

BTW, I looked back at eod yesterday, and he seemed a bit more waffley than youre suggesting here. And most of either D2 or D3 he didn't have you in the solve. It seemed like a quick pivot then he heged a bit. Honestly, the thing that jumped out at me when I went back through my iso was his like nonexistent progression on me. Twice. I started as town. Then inexplicably I went to one of his top two scumreads. Then later I was town on a "reread" and he expressly couldn't point to a moment where I town-told just that he didn't see an agenda from my posts.

If hes scum here, that's probably what I'm seeing more than any of this back and forth between the two of you.

[Billy Pilgrim]

are yall gonna be mad if i just vote una without waiting for the weekend to effort

Honestly Duck convinced me. So I think its gonna be hard for me to go off him. I wouldn't mind having duck around to help sort between you and IV though.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Oh and I think I came to this conclusion a while ago, but I really wanted to do this phase justice so I’ve kind of been holding back. I think duck’s last page of posting has been really solid though and shows una in the same light I’ve been thinking about him (that is, making up the read and then trying to force the reasons to fit the read rather than coming to the read organically)

I agree that duck's last page is SUPER towny, and it was a damn effective scum case. Like if duck is scum here, im fine losing to him, because holy shit effort. Im inclined toward mechanics, which is weird for me because my first experience in social deduction games was Blood on the Clocktower where you don't even get mod confirmed alignments on deaths. So im not gonna lie the confirmation of Una's role on N1 really sort of locked him town tonight. And I still think the night kill of N_M is weird when he said he kept on him, but I guess that works. Because it gives his partner a chance to bus, and Duck sold me on how he kept pushing him but not actually pushing him.

And from my own slot, I think his D1 progression on me was more driven by how other people were approaching my slot then anything about how he was reading.

I hope this is right.

[Billy Pilgrim]

srsly do you just ignore content about me or something

No, duck has you locked town. Im not ignoring it, but he also hasn't done like a 25 post town case on you that literally blew open my read either.

[Billy Pilgrim]

BTW, I looked back at eod yesterday, and he seemed a bit more waffley than youre suggesting here.

Look at his holistic reads for day four - he talks about sorting IV and mwnn in good faith. Then he never talks about either slot, but waffles for a while about how he thinks there's a deeper wolf or maybe his solve is wrong or something. Then he says that if mwnn is scum, NM is necessarily scum. But then he talks about mwnn being town. And then he never revisits what the correction in his solve is, if it's wrong. He waffles, yeah - but the actual reads he states on actual players in the game? Always tw/iv.

Like I get what you mean, he definitely waffles at eod4, but I frankly absolutely cannot believe that he was hand on heart confident on a tw/IV team since d4, then failed to reevaluate either mwnn or IV (which would have basically won the game if we were looking at town!una vs. scum!duck/iv) and decides to lolhammer mwnn instead. he waffles but it's not towny or solvey or actual thoughty waffling. It's just filling posts.

And most of either D2 or D3 he didn't have you in the solve. It seemed like a quick pivot then he heged a bit.

I reckon from my lengthy read it was d3 when he doubled down on the IV/tw team; I'm a bit fuzzy on timeline when working off the top of my head.

Honestly, the thing that jumped out at me when I went back through my iso was his like nonexistent progression on me. Twice. I started as town. Then inexplicably I went to one of his top two scumreads. Then later I was town on a "reread" and he expressly couldn't point to a moment where I town-told just that he didn't see an agenda from my posts.

If hes scum here, that's probably what I'm seeing more than any of this back and forth between the two of you.

you gotta get to my walls dude you're so close you'll love them
for real though I'm acutely aware of how shitty his read on you has been yeah

Yeah, your walls were good. Blew up my read on him. And I see what you mean with respect to his waffling at EoD4. So is it a Una/IV team? And Una's just been creating distance most of the past two days?

[Billy Pilgrim]

I hope I don't need to explain why I've townbinned Lilith but I'm down to give the summary

I'd like it.

[Billy Pilgrim]

or alternatively, what’s the strongest part of it for you that makes you feel like una is scum

I think the strongest piece of it was the stuff around EoD4 whichever day was his hammer on MWNN. Because he did keep coming back to this persistent solve that he just wouldn't push. Luke he seemed committed to it since he kept coming back to it, but he didn't push it. And him hammering outside of that doesn't fit.

So if youre looking for the strongest part it was that, but honestly holistically. It was strong. The pieces about his posturing on Zombie were also pretty meaningful. The stuff about his role is still sort of an outlier to me, but I think breaking g it up between role indicative vs. Alignment indicative makes me think he's the scum there. And its just like impossible to townread Una in the exchange between the two of them as opposed to ducky there.

[Billy Pilgrim]

i haven't read through all of worstys walls but yeah down to elim una, not much more to be said, im more worried about f3 at this point

this is kind of garbage reaction sorry

I was just walking down my apartment block's carpark in the rain thinking "oh IV didn't react to any of my push on una except for saying he was down to vote for una and then tried to set up for f3" lol

I was gonna wait for his rxn to me offering to towncase you but I don't really think I need to atp

Yeah, this makes sense.

[Billy Pilgrim]

I’ll think about what you said more later

I do worry that you/una were kind of setting up for this going against town!worsty?

as far as teams there aren’t very many options

Una/billy
Una/Lilith
Worsty/una - v unlikely
Worsty/billy
Worsty/Lilith

if worsty is town I kind of just think you/una is the team, he’s very confident on Lilith town even in this situation that I would trust, so I don’t think una/Lilith is likely

if una is town then I’m not sure who between you and Lilith is the partner assuming it’s not una (una would probably get nightkilled). As I’ve said I’m torn because I’ve been townreading both of you fairly solidly, but it’s pretty clear one of you is scum (honestly, really good play). I’m not sure if scum!you goes for the bus scum!worsty tactic but it’s possible to set yourself up against me in f3? Idk, im not feeling great about any of this. Specifically I think you’re scum by PoE most likely but I like... townread you this game

Can you point out where/why/how you were townreading billy? I see no evidence of a billy townread during D3/4

He made a comment similar to worst and Una that im just town and they weren't going to explain it. I think that was on D3. At the end of D2 he made some comment like "ok you can be town, " referring to me.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Thats pretty much it. We were sorta discussing the next two elims. Im like pretty sure Lillith is town here (also there's confirmed one scum at least in duck and Una, and im pretty convinced duck is town and I dont think anything can move me off of that at the moment. He basically empied his heart into the thread today.) and your slot doesn't have the best associations with Una. So im probably gonna go Una->you. Sorry, you basically just repped into a slot thats PoE'd.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Are you just taking duck’s word for it that I’m town?

Kinda, but not totally. Look, duck's better than me by a long shot. If duck is scum we're already gone, so yes, im going to pretty heavily weight what he's saying. My vote on you back a few days ago was based on very little (it was the D1 thing around keeping me in the scum pool while not eliming me. And that sort of hinged on a you and IV team since you both responded kinda awkwardly. The only other thing I had was your sort of indifference to Zombie's claim. But your explanation made sense to me, and you apparently really moved duck, and again, yes, im going to trust the better players. Like I hard-core fight against Dunning-Kruger, so you wanna hold that against me, fine, but its playstyle. I dont wanna be the cause of a Town loss in a 13 player game where I just held onto a stubborn read when I was way out of my depth. So assuming game isn't over and we have an f3, im not voting for your slot.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Can you describe the thoughts you had in reaction to 1) my reaction to you pushing me D4, and 2) duck’s post about why I’m town?

I dont reaction test so I didn't have any thoughts about your reaction. I can fake reactions in a game thats done over a computer through text, so I dont put a hell of alot of stock in those immediate reactions. But Duck does put stock in that, and at this point, if the game isn't over tonight, hes town, so that means his thoughts about you are genuine, and he put stock in your reaction, and I trust his ability to read your emotion. Also, his reasoning about your post count is sorta my bias. Like high post count scum are gonna kill me because my bias is to townbin someone when they effort like you've been all game.. it generally takes something weird to break them out of that bin for me, and the way you handled D1 did that for me,, but i think i was probably wrong. And the way you are interacting with me now feels genuine. I can tell you weren't excited about the prospect of being in a F3(I dont actually know what this acronym translates to) with me, but you've been taking the time to sort me. OTOH, IV sorta defaulted to figuring out who the easier of us was to push and started saying that duck's posts said that I was scum, which pretty clearly wasn't what duck was saying.

[Billy Pilgrim]

- I'm not talking about my emotional reaction. I mean what were the thoughts you had when you read my response?
- why do you trust duck's read on me?

I think the most prominent thought I had was a bit of confusion over why you'd vote duck over me given that you'd been scumreading me for as long as you had. Other than that, I didn't really have many.

And I trust duck's read on you because at the point where it matters, (we're in f3, una flipped scum and duck is dead and town) he would be confirmed to have genuine thoughts about you and he has experience with you.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Also, not gonna lie, I'm pretty sure if you were scum you could have autoed to a win, and instead you've been sorting. Like if youre scum here, your scumgame is terrifying.

[Billy Pilgrim]

BuDucky just can't see beyond my scumread on him.
He has Lilith so deep in a pocket, that he feels comfortable enough to just vaguely skirt around my slot.
If Ducky really wanted, he'd understand my frustration as well.
That vote on me is merely symbolic - he knows I'll be mislynchable from this point onwards.
And yea, my own crumbs likely lead to this, so maybe it's going to be me getting my just desserts.

I'm calling it now - Froppy is town, I'll be mislynched tomorrow because of consequences, and the remaining scumteam is BuDucky-IV.

This was the moment that I felt certain with scum!Ducky, so if you are actually asking for the moment where my gutread transitioned into an actual reasoned scumread on him, I guess this is the moment.
His unwillingness to commit into a dialogue with me, him constantly "looking at lilith for help and support" are both clear scumtells for BuDucky.
The one thing that was still puzzling me was their partner though, and this is also the point where Froppy started to look like a reasonable partner-candidate.
Would've also explained why Ducky unvoted so quickly to OMGUS me.

If this is a hard scumread why did you transition away from him yesterday onto MWNN?

[Billy Pilgrim]

What the fuck.

how did you nerds like that snipe

vote count

day 1, vc 2

Billy Pilgrim

(4, E-3) - LavarManos, lilith2013, innocentvillager, NorwegianboyEE

innocentvillager

(3, E-4) - Zombie Apocalypse, TheFourEyedDude, Nepenthes

Zombie Apocalypse

(2) - Saudade, Zombie Apocalypse

LavarManos

(2) - Billy Pilgrim, UnaBombaH

Nepenthes

(1) - the worst

TheFourEyedDude

(0) - Billy Pilgrim

NorwegianboyEE

(0)

Something_Smart

(0)

UnaBombaH

(0)

the worst

(0)

Saudade

(0)

lilith2013

(0)

Sirius9121

(0)

Not Voting

(4) - Sirius9121, Something_Smart

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to execute.

The day will end in (expired on 2020-09-06 18:22:00).

please let me know if something is wrong with the votecount; additionally, note that in accordance with the rules, ONLY votes in vote tags are being counted.

Looking at this post, I would think that billy and Una are unaligned. It makes little to no sense to have two scum sitting together. There is an obvious error in the VC so it's theoretically possible, just unlikely.

IV is less likely to be scum from here but scum do RVS teammates.

Can someone with more experience with Titus let me know if this is the type of slip she'd make as scum? Because it looked like a townslip to me.

[Billy Pilgrim]

With the clearing of Billy, my solve is largely done based on the nk.

Which means what? If duck is alive with me its him? And it Lillith is alive with me its her?

[Billy Pilgrim]

With the clearing of Billy, my solve is largely done based on the nk.

Which means what? If duck is alive with me its him? And it Lillith is alive with me its her?

Well that would be my inclination, yes but I was hoping to play that closer to the chest.

I need you to case an Una/Lillith scum team for me.

So it's now either an Una/Titus(IV) team or Una/Lillith. And as I said earlier im pretty sure Lillith is town here. I was really looking to see if Titus was gonna try and swing me on duck, but the only duck team she proposed was duck and me. So I think im ready Lillith.

[Billy Pilgrim]

I think thats everyone.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Jesus Christ this is my fucking nightmare scenario.
I have to sort between duck and Titus? So I assume Titus is voting for duck here or was that just bullshit?

[Billy Pilgrim]

what's left to sort? lol

Considering I went into today assuming that lillith would be alive I have to reorient.

Man, if you and Una just pulled scum theater yesterday I think im gonna fuck this up, because I'm leaning really heavily on voting Titus.

Titus, tell me why duck is last scum, because yesterday you seemed to sort me based on Duck's case...

[Billy Pilgrim]

@Billy, I didn't sort anyone by anyone's case. I went by the votes. The votes suggest you aren't scum so by PoE Duck is. I'm abnormal in how I scumhunt. I prefer hard cold facts to sqishy feels.

Why is duck scum based on the VCs?

[Billy Pilgrim]

if you're scum billy, gg

if you're town sorry i did this to you after all

Did what to me?

[Billy Pilgrim]

Man, I dont think Titus read D5 at all, or at least the back and forth between you and Una and then your continued engagement with the thread.

And this is what I was terrified of Ducky. Now im sitting here as the conf!town and I need to figure out which of you is scum.

[Billy Pilgrim]

@Titus - im leaning heavily to you being scum, so you're gonna have to convince me otherwise.

[Billy Pilgrim]

There's like three ways this day goes down:
Titus & I crossvote, you're the decisionmaker (which you just expressed anxiety about)
you & Titus crossvote, I'm the decisionmaker (which ngl is basically just what I assumed would happen)
you & I crossvote, Titus is the decisionmaker (scum win)

Except you already voted... and I didn't hammer. So now im the decision maker regardless of whether Titus votes.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Titus, I'm probably gonna vote you. If you're town here, you need to tell me why duck is scum.

[Billy Pilgrim]

The early game makes no sense without ducky being scum.

What assumptions do you operate under when you do your vca?

[Billy Pilgrim]

This day 1 truly is purgatory.

vote count

day 1, vc 10

NorwegianboyEE

(4, E-3) - lilith2013, the worst, Nepenthes, TheFourEyedDude, Waterdispenser

Billy Pilgrim

(3) - Zombie Apocalypse, PookyTheMagicalBear, Not_Mafia

Zombie Apocalypse

(1) - innocentvillager

UnaBombaH

(1) - NorwegianboyEE

innocentvillager

(0)

Waterdispenser

(0)

Nepenthes

(0)

Not_Mafia

(0)

TheFourEyedDude

(0)

Something_Smart

(0)

the worst

(0)

PookyTheMagicalBear

(0)

lilith2013

(0)

Not Voting

(3) - UnaBombaH, Something_Smart, Billy Pilgrim

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to execute.

The day will end in (expired on 2020-09-07 18:22:00).

To suppose that I am scum here supposes that IV just decided to randomly bus when there are two town wagons. One of which is totally pure and threatening a partner.

Or the worst is scum sitting on a chainsaw.

Which totally pure wagon was threatening a partner?

[Billy Pilgrim]

This day 1 truly is purgatory.

vote count

day 1, vc 10

NorwegianboyEE

(4, E-3) - lilith2013, the worst, Nepenthes, TheFourEyedDude, Waterdispenser

Billy Pilgrim

(3) - Zombie Apocalypse, PookyTheMagicalBear, Not_Mafia

Zombie Apocalypse

(1) - innocentvillager

UnaBombaH

(1) - NorwegianboyEE

innocentvillager

(0)

Waterdispenser

(0)

Nepenthes

(0)

Not_Mafia

(0)

TheFourEyedDude

(0)

Something_Smart

(0)

the worst

(0)

PookyTheMagicalBear

(0)

lilith2013

(0)

Not Voting

(3) - UnaBombaH, Something_Smart, Billy Pilgrim

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to execute.

The day will end in (expired on 2020-09-07 18:22:00).

To suppose that I am scum here supposes that IV just decided to randomly bus when there are two town wagons. One of which is totally pure and threatening a partner.

Or the worst is scum sitting on a chainsaw.

Which totally pure wagon was threatening a partner?

Got it, youre talking about Norwee's vote on Una. So you think 2 scum can't have gone to 1 side of the TvT wagon knowing that his vote was on their partner. I mean nor.al impulse is to look on wagon after a d1 town elim, so why not be off elim. And hadnt I voted Una first? So they were on someone that was threatening Una, right?

[Billy Pilgrim]

I voted Una at [p]2184[/p]. Norwee did it at [p]2881[/p].

[Billy Pilgrim]

Also, there was no objection to your slot being the Elim on like D4. Why does scum!worst come out the gate with a bus on his partner and basically force a 1v1 when there was a chance to win in f5?

[Billy Pilgrim]

I voted Una at [p]2184[/p]. Norwee did it at [p]2881[/p].

And that means this VC was like 50 posts after Norwee had moved onto him. At that point I was the bigger threat. And like no one suspected Una on D1. It was my vanity wagon until Norwee hopped on.

[Billy Pilgrim]

unless my explicit purpose was to drag the game into f3 to ruin billy's week.

I dont think this is beyond you...

[Billy Pilgrim]

vote count

day 1, vc 11

NorwegianboyEE

(7, E-0) - lilith2013, the worst, Nepenthes, Waterdispenser, Something_Smart, Zombie Apocalypse, Not_Mafia

Billy Pilgrim

(3) - PookyTheMagicalBear, innocentvillager, TheFourEyedDude

UnaBombaH

(1) - NorwegianboyEE

innocentvillager

(1) - Billy Pilgrim

Waterdispenser

(1) - UnaBombaH

Zombie Apocalypse

(0)

Nepenthes

(0)

Not_Mafia

(0)

TheFourEyedDude

(0)

Something_Smart

(0)

the worst

(0)

PookyTheMagicalBear

(0)

lilith2013

(0)

Not Voting

(0)



The day will end in (expired on 2020-09-07 18:22:00).

Amd here with the hammer, which you didn't include Titus, you have one of two scenarios. 1) the three scum safely distanced on three different townies (you, una, zomb) or 2) the worst in a middle position on Norwee while zomb hammers with Una on a vanity wagon.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Also, early d1, youre saying that a 4 person wagon formed on me that was pure?

[Billy Pilgrim]

What the fuck.

how did you nerds like that snipe

vote count

day 1, vc 2

Billy Pilgrim

(4, E-3) - LavarManos, lilith2013, innocentvillager, NorwegianboyEE

innocentvillager

(3, E-4) - Zombie Apocalypse, TheFourEyedDude, Nepenthes

Zombie Apocalypse

(2) - Saudade, Zombie Apocalypse

LavarManos

(2) - Billy Pilgrim, UnaBombaH

Nepenthes

(1) - the worst

TheFourEyedDude

(0) - Billy Pilgrim

NorwegianboyEE

(0)

Something_Smart

(0)

UnaBombaH

(0)

the worst

(0)

Saudade

(0)

lilith2013

(0)

Sirius9121

(0)

Not Voting

(4) - Sirius9121, Something_Smart

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to execute.

The day will end in (expired on 2020-09-06 18:22:00).

please let me know if something is wrong with the votecount; additionally, note that in accordance with the rules, ONLY votes in vote tags are being counted.

This one. FYPOV you are claiming the lead 2 wagons as tvt with scum as the number 3 wagon and you think me as the lead wagon is pure? So scum entirely off my wagon while there's 2 votes on their teammate?

You gotta make a case for me, because these vcas feel a bit disjointed and I can see scum motivation from what your slot is doing.

Also, it doesnt help that I've seen you do these vcas as scum before in the large normal we played together and they were similarly unconvincing.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Titus, if you're town, we're about to lose, because I'm damn near hammering. Honestly at this point, if ducky is scum here, well fucking played. But I made it clear, I was leaning toward voting you and the vca like didn't really persuade me. So if youre town here I need more.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Titus, if you're town, we're about to lose, because I'm damn near hammering. Honestly at this point, if ducky is scum here, well fucking played. But I made it clear, I was leaning toward voting you and the vca like didn't really persuade me. So if youre town here I need more.

It's frustrating you believe long walls of discrediting and twisting of my VCA over short, concise and truthful statements.

The truth shouldn't need flashy walls of melodrama. Just frank openness which is all I have to offer.

What is this in reference to?

[Billy Pilgrim]

@Titus, is what I'm supposed to see in the VCs you already posted?

[Billy Pilgrim]

VOTE: Titus

If I fucked this up, im sorry.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Ducky youre a fiend so I know you're around, were you scum?

[Billy Pilgrim]

Are you trolling me? Were you scum? I fucking hate this game

[Billy Pilgrim]

You can release my notes but I dont think I wrote much if anything.

Holy fucking shit though. Yay. I didn't fuck it up.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Yeah osuka, thanks for the mod. Even if you hate Liverpool.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Worst you really carried me there, thanks.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Is the scum thread unlocked yet?

[Billy Pilgrim]

Is the scum thread unlocked yet?

yup, i unlocked it earlier

arsenal > liverpool

The table the past few years says otherwise, but I understand your position.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Where do the Mets come into play in this ranking?

Same place they do in any ranking, pretty close to last.