Micro 1013: IMoA [game over!]

[sang froid]

Hello, all

I mostly joined because of nsg, hi nsg!

Please give some time for me to properly catch up, should probably be done by this evening. I've been loosely following since nsg repped in and my inclination on a personal level is towards Sigmund being scum for relying on activity in lieu of actual critical engagement with the game. What there is of actual "logic" in his ISO seems weak and possibly related to ulterior motives (see: the shift in stance on nsg!slot after the rep out), and then there's the constant shopping around for wagons that might have traction but no real interest in sorting people based on reactions to his switches/pushing

However, if nsg is strongly convinced on moongrass, I'm happy to sheep her D1 as I generally think she has a better read-rate than I do

[sang froid]

I'm interested more in your Moon, Ico and NSG reads here though once caught up.

I'll be posting a full readslist once I have one

[sang froid]

Lets say you're right. Who is Sigmund's buddy?

I don't particularly care; that's something I can look at tomorrow. Or, if I'm dead, that y'all can look for tomorrow.

[sang froid]

>commence sequence catchup.exe
>downloading data.lib
>loading analysis.lib
>loading tone reads.lib

...
...

>initialising

Pg 1

- dislike UneveN's praise of ta vera for "solving" -> felt a little performative due to being too early

Pg 2

- Sigmund's entry is meh but his continued insistence on Norwee's frustration later being scum indicative is bad given that that's NAI

Pg 3

- I like VFP's flippancy on a tonal level

Pg 4

- not a fan of moongrass' "opinions on everyone" question. it's so generic that it's not really useful for solving. I think town prefer to know about particular, specific things or reads that pinged them as being off -> such as here, for instance
- 87 is meaningless but I think from a town mindset

Pg 7

- VFP's 156 -> I don't think ta vera is just "muttering away in the background" up to this point at all and think this is mischaracterising her posting. I'm aware of potential bias in how I'm viewing this due to additional information I have
- Sigmund continuing to do anything
- 166 from moongress makes me think not aligned with Sigmund. Either can still be scum individually
- 172 -> ta vera is my soulmate & I'm sad she's the one I replaced

Pg 8

- 185 -> excited to see if you can guess me once game is over, nsg! (by PM, please)
- I like moongrass' engagement with nsg

Pg 9

- 210 -> this seems like the polar opposite of true to me. not very AI other than it's a weak reason to push S_S in the first place

Pg 10

- Sigmund's push on S_S is just generally baseless -> he's not wrong that S_S isn't really townie by this point in the game, but no more than S_S is not normally townie by this point in any game at this stage of D1
- 238 in particular seems like it's made in bad faith

[sang froid]

cont.

Pg 11

- 252 -> S_S, why was norwee town?
- waiting for Andres to do... anything
- 255 is just UneveN generically commenting and not doing any solving -> note to see if this is a theme as game goes on
- 265 -> disagree w/ soulmate predecessor that UneveN is displaying "nuance". however, her opinion is noted
- I generally like how S_S is approaching the game and what he's saying, but he's fooled me before. slightly town just because there aren't that many slots I like that much yet

Pg 12

- 276 -> why is Sigmund not an effective slot to vote for, nsg? also, I think I'm leaning more towards UneveN than moongrass at this point
- 279 is a fucking bizarre take lol
- possible equity between moongrass/uneven but I think scum quite rarely got o bat for their buddy so openly. suspect moongrass is just misreading uneven
- VI vibes from monograss strengthening with 286
- I don't think 55 is a very good reason to TR nor wee. Not sure how I feel about that being the basis for S_S' only read

Pg 13

- 319 seems at odds with the angle Sigmund was pushing at the time

Pg 14

- uneven continues to do the opposite of impress
- Sigmund is a highly unpleasant player regardless of alignment -> his meta take on ico is also wrong, icons effort level is not very alignment linked
- 340 from ico is bad
- so is 344
- so is 346
- and so is 347 both for the take (weird thing for scum to lie about) -- and for the vote, which seems very safe -> not sure what this says about the dragon's alignment, he may just had bad takes this game

Pg 15

- I think what I dislike about the ico catch-up is it all seems very surface level, but I don't think that's AI from memory
- 363 is significantly better and the first real indication of possible town!ico

Pg 16

- Andres' reads/takes feel very low effort for what I'd expect from him. Also disagree on most of his scumpool. If Sigmund is town who I'm misreading for having an asshole play style, Andres could slot in very nicely
- specific elaboration on why uneven is town in 383 would be good @andres
- I also didn't like hs reason for not being engaged of "a lot of you sound like assholes" -> it's just Sigmund? so this doesn't really add up to me
- 384 from Andres is good self-awareness but self-awareness is NAI
- 394 is NAI to slightly town from moongress, but is mostly just funny
- 395 -> Sigmund slot clearly does not care about sorting people
- 398[/post from ico -> something something self-awareness, something something NAI

Pg 17

- [post]402 -> really warming up to ico!town
- generally this page makes me increasingly confident on ico and moon being town

Pg 18

- 430 -> you are of course aware that that shiny new "moment of brilliance" banner somewhat defeats the point of this post @ico?
- 434 -> what exactly changed your read on Sigmund, @moongrass?
- 447 is a strong mind meld with nsg from earlier in my catchup where I talked about ico's take on moongrass

Pg 20

- would be nice to see VFP back, but I'm not sold on their absence actually being scummy & I still like their early game
- S_S is back to null as I've liked other slots more

[sang froid]

It's been nearly 2 hours doing this catch-up and I could really feel myself fading by the end especially from pages 17-20, so I'm leaving the rest for tomorrow

Reads without the last 33% of the game are something like this

nsg
ico
moongrass
VFP

S_S

andres

uneven
sigmund

[sang froid]

the two groups are loosely tiered but not strongly. only notable point about that is that VFP is definitely the bottom of the TR group.

[sang froid]

I don't agree with your take on Sigmund's push of SS. I think Sigmund's point that scum don't do anything to rock the boat in favorable conditions, does hold some weight. It would be an odd point for scum Sigmund to make as a fake reason to push SS when he was pushing Norwegian for no reason earlier and he easily could have done so again. A low content game does favor scum and Sigmund interjecting to create readable content gives Sigmund town points there.

why was the gamestate in favorable conditions for scum at the time other than Sigmund's play being unpleasant to have to tolerate? there was content being generated anyway and no reason to think at that point that the inactive slots weren't going to turn up at some point, so I don't think the "interjecting to create readable content" outweighs how the incentive for scum to play to the lowest common denominator and just make town not want to be in thread because it's not enjoyable

it's not a classy way to win games, but it is effective. Sigmund's combination of bullish pushing with no reasoning, general demeanour, and high activity without sorting are all things that make a game less pleasant to be in and are perfectly standard (if weak and lowest common denominator) scumplay

I also think there's a significant difference between pushing town!norwee and pushing town!nsg, with no disrespect to norwee intended. Norwee is known to be misyeetable, and isn't particularly highly regarded as a town player. nsg is very well regarded as a townplayer and often quite easily identifiable when town. I think the slot replacing meant that keeping up the tunnel was untenable.

also worth noting that I believe Sigmund was arguing that norwee's emotion was fake earlier but that his escalation was too fast to be town. I don't think that's true or a very compelling argument. norwee slurring, while unpleasant, is NAI; I think anyone who's got reasonable experience as norwee knows that when he gets frustrated he has a bit of a temper, and I think he'd get pissed off with Sigmund in an equivalent way regardless of alignment given the way he was being pushed. so Sigmund's read for pivoting on the slot also doesn't make sense to me.

sorry, this is probably a case where a more concise post would be better at getting my point across and maybe I'll try again tomorrow if you don't follow, but in the words of Pascal I would have written a short post but I didn't have time

[sang froid]

@ta vera contact me in the postgame, we were meant to be

[sang froid]

(a hydra

unless...)

[sang froid]

I've come across your type of player before and am well aware that in lieu of the ability to do anything useful you rely on trying to make people feel bad about themselves and/or their reads when they call you out on your bullshit. Maybe I'm wrong and you are town. But if you are there's still very little to be lost from yeeting you based on your total inability to perform any critical analysis of any slot in the game so far. Speaking loudly and being a dick are things scum are just as capable of as town, and they're things that are often sadly misread. I have no intention of letting you skate by having done nothing of value because some members of town are too naive to believe that scum would play the way you have so far. I can sub in "just pushes whoever the fuck for no reason in an intentionally abrasive way" for "asshole playstyle", I just prefer the shorthand. And given that that's the way you're playing, i.e. without doing anything that actually indicates you're town, should that be the case, the blame rests squarely on your own shoulders should you prove to be a misyeet instead of a scum yeet.

Your assessment of Norwee also strikes me as inaccurate, but I'll have to look up my last meta with scum!him. I'm pretty sure he only gets defeatist if the game has been going on slightly longer when he gets caught and he's pure indignation if it's straight from RVS regardless of alignment

[sang froid]

Sang seemed so nice when they repped in lol.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

I intend to continue to be nice to anyone who’s conduct indicates that that’s a good idea!

[sang froid]

did you write this or was this put together by a random word generator because it's unreadable bullshit to me.

I’m sorry you weren’t able to keep up with what was being said!

May I suggest this as something that might help you with understanding future posts in the thread! You seem to be having some trouble

[sang froid]

@other players:

Please note that Sigmund is incapable of substantively addressing any of my points against him, and is immediately resorting to ad hom attacks.

[sang froid]

Why do you say Sigmund never endgames and what in his 120 posts of fluff do you think makes him town?

[sang froid]

I’ve already given thoughts on both S_S and VFP as part of my catch up, but to re-iterate:

S_S has done very little to make me want to TR him or SR him so far. There were some light town pings, but that was while Andres and ico were still absent, and I was willing to weight them slightly higher then because of those two being null by necessity.

VFP had a couple of posts that tone pinged me as towny in the early pages. One of these is explicitly noted in my catch up. Their absence is a little concerning, and I don’t have enough faith in tone to call them definitively town, but they seem like a soft target (as most absent players become) and I have enough players I think are scummier than them that I’m not really interest in pursuing that unless you can explain why 2/3 of Andres, Sigmund, and uneven are town.

Aside from that, I’m not really trying to make this about my intelligence or lack thereof and don’t totally follow the jab, if that’s what it was (that’s what it felt like). I am adopting a slightly more formal playstyle here than normal, and I don’t know if you’re reading that as arrogance or a superior tone. This account is an experiment to some degree in three respects:

1) moving away from being lazy and relying too much on tonereading — trying harder to analyse what players are doing and why.

2) in the style of Ankamius, to focus less on having necessarily good relationships with other players and more on trying to simply get my reads as accurate as possible and to then push those reads hard.

3) to endeavour to, as the name may have given away, a calm demeanour at all times while fulfilling steps one and two.

I hope this is useful information for engaging with me.

[sang froid]

Why do you say Sigmund never endgames and what in his 120 posts of fluff do you think makes him town?

Ok so if we work backwards from a hypothetical lylo, I can't see any reasonable player eliminating anyone over Sigmund. Even in the worst case scenario of a VFP, SS, Sigmund I don't see Sigmund saving his bacon has scum. If he does end up in Lylo it's more likely he's town being setup for a MisLim.

I don't strongly townread Sigmund but I feel he is engaged in a way that I think is more likely town than scum. As I was pointing out in your catch up, there was no reason for him to push the game in a new direction when the game seemed to be heading into a gladiate between our slots. I do agree that his change of direction just after nsg's entrance doesn't look good, but later posts like "can we just kill someone please" tend to come from impatient town rather than untactful scum ineffectively bulldozing the game.

I don't believe he poses any threat as scum and I would be more concerned about his partner if he is.

I think the fact that, in the same post, you say that you don’t think Sigmund would stand much of a chance at lylo if he were to make it that far AND that if he does end up there he’s more likely town being brought along to be miseliminated is exactly why it would be problematic to let him make it that far.

I don’t think the game was necessarily heading into a gladiate between your slots, unless you mean that you think people were liable to line-up wanting one or the other of you but without the two of you directly 1v1ing. And I can think of a very clear reason why scum!him would not want to be in a gladiator which is that, again, there’s no no desire or effort put into solving the game in his ISO and I suspect that he wouldn’t want to be stuck as a 50/50 elimination choice against anyone, knowing that.

I would agree that those types of posts do often come from impatient town: i think that viewed in the broader context of his play, and again, the startlingly lack of interest in sorting other players, it’s much more likely that his pushing for a lim of whoever is either NAI or scum indicative. What, other than general beliefs about how people play, makes you think Sigmund is not a player who thinks that by simply being loud and belligerent he will be townread regardless of what he actually does?

And I’m less interested in partner hunting when I’m confident that Sigmund is scum. Additionally, even if he’s not, I think removing him from the game will create an environment that’s more cooperative and therefore more conducive to finding where the actual scum are without him proving to be a bad-tasting distraction.

[sang froid]

Please note that Sigmund is incapable of substantively addressing any of my points against him, and is immediately resorting to ad hom attacks.

you literally repped in and immediately called me an asshole and a policy elim and you're giving me shit for ad-homing back at you?

someone call the waaaahbulance we got a hypocrite over here.

My desire to eliminate is clearly not a policy lim, something you’d know if you were bothering to read my posts.

I’m sorry you weren’t able to keep up with what was being said!

i'm sorry you keep pretending to be nice

I have at no point pretended to be nice to you. If you can’t read blatantly hostile sarcasm aimed in your direction, that’s on you.

[sang froid]

a notorious townteller

This is very simply not true, norwee is often a very mislimmable player who’s emotional reactions get misread as scum flails.

[sang froid]

I have at no point pretended to be nice to you. If you can’t read blatantly hostile sarcasm aimed in your direction, that’s on you.

why are you crying to the rest of the game about me being mean to you if you spend all your time hurling insults at me?

I don’t give a shit if you’re mean to me, and have no idea where you’re getting that impression. The fact that you’re incapable of launching a defence of your play this game beyond ad hom has nothing to do with the drivel you’re spewing in my direction and everything to do with your weak arguments for why your play thus far would ever come from a town slot.

[sang froid]

My desire to eliminate is clearly not a policy lim, something you’d know if you were bothering to read my posts.

sounds like a policy elim when you end your post with "even if he's town it'll be easier to scumhunt when he's gone"

No, it’s just that even if you only end up being a policy lim, it’s still beneficial.

[sang froid]

I don’t give a shit if you’re mean to me, and have no idea where you’re getting that impression. The fact that you’re incapable of launching a defence of your play this game beyond ad hom has nothing to do with the drivel you’re spewing in my direction and everything to do with your weak arguments for why your play thus far would ever come from a town slot.

you're the one @ the rest of the game WAAAAH SIGMUND IS AD-HOMMING ME.

Like every post you send at me is some thinly veiled insult

so why are you crying about me dishing some back?

I’m not crying at all lol, but feel free to continue misrepping me.

I repped in and called you scum. I haven’t particularly felt any urge to be nice about you because your play this game has been asshole-ish. The fact that you took pleasure in bullying someone out of the game is evidence enough of that.

I do not give a flying fuck about what language you use to address me. You are a gnat to me, buzzing around. I have other things I could say about what I think of you but I won’t.

My point about the ad hom is,

very clearly

based in the fact that you’re resorting to that instead of any reasoned argument as to why you’re not scum. That should be, but apparently isn’t to you, either because you’re being wilfully dense or otherwise, anything to do with the fact that you’re being insulting. It’s everything to do with the fact that you’re incapable of justifying your play this far as town, and are therefore trying to double down on discrediting the person calling for your head. It’s transparent, it’s lazy, but it is often effective because towns so often misread vitriol for townishness.

I don’t particularly have any respect for the style in which you’re choosing to play scum, but I’ll grant that on a base level it is quite effective.

[sang froid]

you rep in spend all your posts insulting me and advocating for a policy elim

Another pair of misreps. Note that Sigmund is either incapable or unwilling to engage with the actual arguments being presented.

[sang froid]

i townread sigmund primarily because i have a decently strong conviction that, were sigmund to be scum, he would be more actively pushing towards a scum win condition. you might think that he already his through whatever he's doing, the vote switching and etc., but i think that it would be a lot more "obvious" if he were scum. as it is now, i don't think sigmund is really "hardpushing" anyone, moreso kind of mulling around, seemingly bored – were he scum, i think that an actual, non-meme hard push would be being made on someone who the scumteam wanted dead. i don't think that we're seeing that, and based on my mental model of sigmund and in general of players like him, i think that that's town indicative.

I mean I think he’s playing to a scum wincon but not exactly in the way you believe he would if he were scum. I think a lot of what he’s doing is trying to create a persona that will be TR regardless of his actions, which thereby gives him carte blanche to just do scummy shit in plain view. I think that’s his overarching aim for today, and the hopping around and being opportunistic is part of it; it’s an opportunity to look like he’s actual doing things instead of purely fluffposting which is what he’d be stuck at if he didn’t bother to push people at all. The troublesome thing is that there’s no substance or thought process behind his pushes, I think, and that’s further encouraged by the fact that when called on that he

cannot

provide it. Perhaps he’s just unwilling to, but I think it’s because there is nothing behind it. He’s a lazy scumplayer who wants to get by on being toneread as town.

I’ll think about what you had to say though. There’s some merit in the idea that he would be more committed on a single hard push if scum instead of flirting around, but I’m just not convinced the weight of that out balances... everything else about how he’s playing and what he’s doing.

[sang froid]

@other players:

Please note that Sigmund is incapable of substantively addressing any of my points against him, and is immediately resorting to ad hom attacks.

^ this sounds a lot like

"I am a good player who wants to have a civilized and nice discussion with Sigmund, but he's choosing to instead hurl ad hom attacks on me to avoid my points"


when in reality you repped in and began insulting me immediately and spent multiple posts hurling insults at me so I fired some zingers back.

Keep clutching your pearls and pretending you're some kind of victim or some bullshit lol

Again, I don’t care if you engage with the reasons why you’re scum politely or with a side-serving or insults, what I care about is whether you engage with them. You’ve consistently chosen not to, I think because I have you absolutely dead to rights and you don’t know what to do other than lash out when that happens.

The fact that I’m choosing to present that information in a civil way to the rest of the thread while you deserve only the civility required of me by site and game rules is the reason for the difference in tone.

[sang froid]

I did warn sang about the head banging. You know that feeling you get where you're super mad and sure the other person is scum, that usually means they're town.

I’m not mad, though. This is calm me, as previously mentioned. I just strongly believe that Sigmund is scum and he’s done nothing (well, one small thing, that post on the last page about how scum push miselims is something I’m thinking about) to change my mind on that since I arrived or in his engagement with me or the two of you tonight.

[sang froid]

I don’t particularly have any respect for the style in which you’re choosing to play scum, but I’ll grant that on a base level it is quite effective.

i have 0 respect for you crying about me insulting you after you insulted me multiple times first regardless of what your alignment is.

Why would I care if a bully has respect for me or not lol

[sang froid]

The troublesome thing is that there’s no substance or thought process behind his pushes,

I think, and that’s further encouraged by the fact that when called on that he cannot provide it. Perhaps he’s just unwilling to, but I think it’s because there is nothing behind it.

He’s a lazy scumplayer

who wants to get by on being toneread as town.

My computer keeps crashing which is really annoying so I'll keep it short - I think the bolded claims are just false.

Would you like to get into why that is now or another time? If your computer is crashing perhaps another time is best, I have to go shortly and I’m a little drained tonight.

[sang froid]

I don’t care if you don’t want to interact with me, Sigmund, feel free to stop responding to my posts if you wish. I will continue to respond to yours and to point out why I think they indicate that you’re scum until I have reason to believe that’s not the case.

[sang froid]

I think there hasn't been a lot of elaboration, but the votes have followed something of a pattern of mostly staying within one PoE.

I think that I'm a lazy scumplayer, and that sig's play doesn't resemble that or any other lazy scumplayer. I think sig is a high effort scumplayer and sort of a lazy town player.

I think sig has done some outrageous stuff, but is probably a townie. I also think that enough has been said about that outrageous stuff, and the rest is best left to postgame.

I’m not seeing it yet, but I’ll take another look. I do have another 10 pages of catch up left too.

I think there’s a mistake you’re making which is WIM vs effort. I think Sigmund is probably a high WIM player regardless of alignment. I think you can make a lot of posts as scum and give the impression of activity while still being lazy in making a consistent effort with your thought processes etc, trusting that the WIM you exhibit will be misread as towniness.

I apologise if I’m making the game unpleasant; I find having to interact with Sigmund altogether unpleasant, but find it somewhat unavoidable. I will try to back off a little if you feel it’s going too far from my side, but I think I’ve been measured even if I haven’t minced my words at all.

[sang froid]

I’m generally opposed to extensions on principle, I think they’re unfair on the scumteam in the vast majority of cases and don’t like to support them regardless of alignment.

[sang froid]

Replacements are generally a disadvantage to scum imo, and so also giving town extra time to solve in addition to getting a maybe mislimmable or at the very least non-contributing slot swapped with someone who will contribute and who has a fresh perspective seems like pouring salt in the wounds.

[sang froid]

I presume almost certainly at me, as the most recent replacement.

[sang froid]

And she doesn’t slip in the PT, she just talks to me like a normal scumbuddy would

[sang froid]

Shit, I told myself I was turning over a new leaf with this account and I’d stop doing fake openwolfing.

Also, it was a fair question, nsg — no harm in asking.

[sang froid]

Okay, I should go.

nsg, if I can’t sell you on Sigmund by EoD would you be willing to compromise on uneven?

And moongrass, could you elaborate further on uneven and why you think he’s town? Also, could you answer the question on what changed your mind on Sigmund to move him from the top of your reads (at the point of page 10) to the bottom (by the end of page 20)?

[sang froid]

Tell you what: you answer mine, and I’ll see about getting round to answering yours tomorrow. Final post. Really got to head now.

[sang froid]

Prod received. I’ll be available later, got caught up over the weekend

[sang froid]

and also because the conclusions of sang froid’s catch-up felt predetermined and the way they talked about ta vera reminded me of mafia play.

Justify your work. What felt pre-determined and what about my talk about the predecessor was reminiscent of mafia play?

[sang froid]

I felt the 1v1 with Sigmund was strongly TvT just based on tone

I think I’ve guessed who Sigmund is, and while I don’t understand why he’s playing in this way and I find his gimmick highly annoying still, but I think his tone should be read as very NAI. He’s a strong scumplayer and his aimlessness is a constant in most games. I retract what I said about him being an asshole, if I’m right, but I hate the persona he’s chosen to go with here.

[sang froid]

I’m not voting iconeum today. My lim pool is probably (UneveN, Andres) and probably (VFP, S_S) at a push.

[sang froid]

pushing mis-elims is about:

1. Timing
2. Momentum
3. Game State Manipulation
4. Opportunity.

As scum, I do not target people that towntell under pressure because it's borderline idiotic unless the read I have on the game state is that I can force it through before the emotional town-teller can obvtown their own slot.

I certainly do not target from an equilibrium position because there is no momentum to take advantage of.

All this nonsense sang froid is posting is drivel.

Either they are making it up or they are one of the worst scum players on this site and have no idea how to create mis-elims.

Sigmund is out of the limpool for this post and the meta take. Tone reading him is still an awful idea.

[sang froid]

Sang can you talk to me more about your Ico progression? Like why did the posts you highlighted made you confident in Ico town?

I’m going to have to go back through when I’m not on mobile if you want me to try to pull specific posts, but basically I think ico’s progression this game has been town. He came in with some pretty terrible and very surface level takes, then acknowledged that he was basically doing exactly that, and once he reconsidered I found him saying things that were pretty much exactly in line with where my head was at on the gamestate as I was catching up.

He’s not locktown, and I still haven’t finished the 20-30 pages, but it’s definitely enough that it earns him a stay of execution with slots like (Andres, UneveN) still around.

[sang froid]

Essentially, he’s done enough that he’s not in the bottom four, and then if I am wrongly reconsidering Sigmund, I’d also put him above there. It’s partly PoE from the feeling that so many people are more likely to be scum than him.

[sang froid]

Justify your work. What felt pre-determined and what about my talk about the predecessor was reminiscent of mafia play?

Your conclusions with regards to both me and Sigmund felt like they were made before the catchup and the purpose of the catchup was to justify them. I have noticed players replacing into mafia slots sometimes say their predecessor was very unideal -or- that they were most excellent ('so sad i'm replacing this slot, want to hydra sometime') and players replacing into town slots mostly ignore that their predecessors ever existed. There may be a sample size issue to that but it is something I noted at some point.

Okay, but why? What actually makes them seem like they were pre-determined other than those being my reads? Because it feels like you’re taking “sang froid is pushing me and Sigmund” to mean that I’d already decided on that. (You’re also wildly overestimating how much effort I would put into a fake catchup as scum, but that’s neither here nor there.)

As for the other thing... yes, that’s a terrible metric. I will basically always comment on my predecessor if they posted a reasonable amount of content. Some players always do, some never do, maybe a handful do it more as scum? But this is so weak that it’s hard to buy you really using it as the basis of a read

[sang froid]

VOTE: andres

[sang froid]

The greetings tell has never been a thing lol

[sang froid]

Okay, but why? What actually makes them seem like they were pre-determined other than those being my reads?

It didn't feel like your reasoning with regards to me added up to a scumread. It was a post that I provided the context of it not actually being 'solving' by ta vera that I was drawing attention to and otherwise you simply saying things like 'doesn't impress'. Like to me it felt like your conclusion was always going to be 'UneveN is mafia' and that you just included things in the catchup to explain that.

I mean again, even if I were scum you’re ascribing such a backwards thought process to what it would make sense for me to do? Like I wouldn’t read through THEN decide, I would just be reading and be like “oh, UneveN sounds weak, I’ll push there” (which, if it were my approach, would also make very little sense with pushing Sigmund at the same time).

I mostly just don’t think you’re trying to solve the game and that you haven’t been throughout and that reads as scummy to me?

That said, I now think you’re maybe town and that I’m the VI this game not moongrass

[sang froid]

It has here, perhaps before your time.

It wasn’t, it was spurious data from newbie games which never had a large enough data set behind it to be reliable

[sang froid]

I’m *intensely* curious about who you are by the way, moongrass

[sang froid]

nsg, are you still concerned about moongrass or nah?

[sang froid]

Interesting people always say they’re not interesting

It’s the boors who claim they’re the most scintillating individuals to grace the surface of the earth

[sang froid]

Anyway, in case we don’t have numbers:

Moongrass
Nsg

I’m very confident are town

Ico I think has been primarily town

UneveN
Sigmund

Maybe town, actually? I felt like the way UneveN addressed me on the last page was very good faith? Sigmund I’ve already explained but I would always vote to eliminate in lylo over any of the top 3 reads

VFP has dropped as a result of the others moving up

S_S isn’t very town at this point by PoE
Andres I still think would have done considerably more by now if town

I’m not sure if I believe in an S_S/Andres team but I guess it’s possible. Not sure if I’m adapting myself too much to thread consensus here/trusting my TRs too much, but it is what it is

[sang froid]

Does anyone want me for anything now? If not, I’m going and unless we drag things right out to deadline I may not be around again, we’ll see

[sang froid]

I’m taking that as a “no” then. Maybe see you again before deadline, ciao belli

[sang froid]

[sang froid]

VOTE: moongrass

I’m not a mason

[sang froid]

Also not caught up but that seems to be what’s happened here

[sang froid]

Top post of this page nsg links to a post claiming that moongrass outed me as her partner. Following the link, it’s moon saying she crumbed in her first post. Her first post is a vote on me, which in conjunction with that and the mason claim means she’s claiming me as her mason buddy. I’m not a mason

[sang froid]

Hi ta vera.

M

ay I

a

sk for

s

ome of your

o

pinions

n

ow?

I think Moon means this one.

Oh

Ohhhhh

VOTE: andres

[sang froid]

that's an honest question I don't know the answer to it but I haven't seen it so if someone could should me a game where NSG scum gets mad and yells at people I'd love to see it.

meta is trash, but nsg is very town regardless

[sang froid]

I think nsg is exclusively scum with sigmund in any worlds where she is scum

[sang froid]

-shrug-

sigmund asked why not sang, and i gave the reason from my perspective. you might be right. if i'm wrong then it's unfortunate that i'm not voting VFP instead of sang.

or, the other way around.

mildly baffled and moderately disappointed that you’re not TRing me, nsg

[sang froid]

That’s the time I had, might have a few minutes later

[sang froid]

-shrug-

sigmund asked why not sang, and i gave the reason from my perspective. you might be right. if i'm wrong then it's unfortunate that i'm not voting VFP instead of sang.

or, the other way around.

mildly baffled and moderately disappointed that you’re not TRing me, nsg

-shrug-

I mean, reading between the lines one might realise this is an invitation to e x p a n d on that read

[sang froid]

VOTE: VFP

YEET

[sang froid]

good morning

[sang froid]

VOTE: S_S

[sang froid]

S_S -> ico -> sigmund

[sang froid]

Why me before Ico? Moongrass wanted Ico first.

I know, I disagree on ico

I also disagree pretty strongly on it being UneveN and I’ll fight that hard if anyone is thinking of trying to make that happen.

I don’t really care which way round we yeet in S_S/ico

[sang froid]

By which I mean that I have a preference but if everyone else agrees it should be ico first I won’t bother spending the energy to sell S_S first

[sang froid]

SS is town

No

[sang froid]

oh i guess i could be wrong about SS town?

Yes

[sang froid]

I mean the fact that UneveN is in your pool is enough reason for me to doubt your judgement this game, think about it

[sang froid]

Why do you think S_S is town

[sang froid]

I mean the fact that UneveN is in your pool is enough reason for me to doubt your judgement this game, think about it

The fact that you are saying this is making me doubt YOUR judgement.

The fact that you’re suggesting UneveN might be scum given your general understanding of mechanics of games is itself deeply scummy

I don’t know what’s wrong with nsg, but she should know better

[sang froid]

i'm really more interested in your positive reasons to scumread SS rather than any reasons you might have to not believe my townread on him.

How about: he hasn’t done any solving or played the game for a full day and was off wagon

Whereas UneveN is obviously town if you think about yesterday for like 30 seconds and what information is public

and I think ico has at least had some thoughts that make sense as coming from town

You and Andres are probably town

Sigmund might be scum who bussed, but it’s not that worth thinking about that unless ico and S_S both flip town

Moat recently, it’s scummy that S_S is pretending to not know why UneveN is town and also that he cares about not being limmed

today

specifically, whereas if he was town in a pool he thought was basically correct I don’t think he’d be that fussed about the order the lims went in

[sang froid]

I think VFP made a decent try to kill SS on D1.

Oh, wait, hmm

This is a fair point

Maybe it is just ico?

UNVOTE:

[sang froid]

I have additional mechanical information from last night that makes me think UneveN is town but isn’t a hard clear

So can we forget about that being on the table now

[sang froid]

Be surprised, then

[sang froid]

Whatever you and NSG are alluding to, I’m assuming it has something to do with the hood but I refuse to believe there are masons in this game and some sort of confirmable hood thing of whatever nature, because then the game would just be broken

[sang froid]

So whatever it is, I don’t think it’s clearing for you

Whereas I do think my thing is soft clearing for UneveN, who I assume knows what I’m talking about

[sang froid]

So basically, it’s S_S or ico probably and S_S i very much doubt has anything mechanical in his favour, but Sigmund has a point that he was being targeted by VFP yesterday in a way that doesn’t seem like bussing

So it’s probably just ico, yeah

[sang froid]

So can we just get on with this?

[sang froid]

I am relaxed, but why waste time?

We’re not going to out whatever we all know mechanically in 7p

There are (at least somewhat) compelling reasons to believe it’s not anyone but ico

The longer the day drags on the more likely it is the mason’s identity gets clued (if scum haven’t figured that already)

Ico is obviously not the mason lol

So... let’s just yeet ico for the homies and win this thing?

[sang froid]

It’s for the homies

VOTE: ico

I’ll even cede the rights to the hammer if we can get this done within a page

[sang froid]

Come on sigmund/nsg, for the homies

[sang froid]

If it’s not GG vote fast night or ur scum thx

[sang froid]

Subject: Micro 1013: IMoA VOICE OF MOD:

the very annoying thing about the current gamestate is that it's very possible that scum get yeeted on day one and day two, which would be horribly inconvenient for me because i've got a 4-part story planned for flavour, so i would need at least 2 in-game nights to post it in full, without having to post half of it in the endgame

god fuckin dammit scum step it up!!!

Whoops

[sang froid]

I really enjoyed the flavour, datisi

Mostly pretty happy with my own play

[sang froid]

gg, wp to all, as ever

I’m so confused by how you and nsg didn’t see that UneveN was the mason, S_S? And by like... whatever it was you were both alluding to re: your being town

[sang froid]

I mean I’m normally terrible at mason-hunting but even before the mailman message pretty much confirmed it, I was more or less sure it was UneveN

[sang froid]

Oh, that’s what you were doing. I just thought that was obviously not true due to moongrass’ stance on UneveN throughout the game and posts about order in which we should proceed

I was very mildly considering it as WIFOM cover for you, but I didn’t think there was enough for it to be that

[sang froid]

Subject: Micro 1013: IMoA [something_smart pt]

I kinda feel like sang is scummy for this honestly... like why wouldn't town want to create confusion for scum over who the mason is? The mason can still claim without risk of CC, if they do get under pressure.

If I’d been scum, I’d have pretended to not have realised or to not be sure to try and make it look less like me when killing her the next night

[sang froid]

great flavor datisi, thanks for modding!

good game all!

Will I be receiving an alt guess via PM?

[sang froid]

nsg continues her successful streak of alt guessing me, I think she’s only not got me... once?

I’m still kind of confused why you thought I was scum, nsg. Because I wasn’t at scum on VFP and ico when others had already reached that point?

[sang froid]

Sorry if I was overly harsh or aggressive @Sigmund

[sang froid]

I’m still kind of confused why you thought I was scum, nsg. Because I wasn’t at scum on VFP and ico when others had already reached that point?

honestly? it was almost entirely a partner read with moon.

oh, lol, that’s pretty funny

[sang froid]

good job!

We should hydra some time! I really liked your posting pre-rep in, predecessor!

[sang froid]

may i pm you a guess?