Open 819 | The Mindmeld Theory | Postgame

[Ich Troje]

3rd

[Ich Troje]

VOTE: Datisi

[Ich Troje]

oh there's no voting in this game lol

[Ich Troje]

skitter town

agree

[Ich Troje]

I propose that the stronger town players stay in game even if its apparant they are probably town so they can be the ones to leave in an endgame situation where we need to be careful

[Ich Troje]

Keep the scumreads coming so I can stay in this game as long as possible

[Ich Troje]

Ich/Datisi scum team

I propose that the stronger town players stay in game even if its apparant they are probably town so they can be the ones to leave in an endgame situation where we need to be careful

lolscum

Explain.

[Ich Troje]

I wonder what constitutes a strong town player.

Ich, did you mean strong play as a whole when town or strong town performance this game alone?

The latter can't be known until post game. I meant high impact players who are valuable tools to town when alive. Such as Pooky/Skitter.

[Ich Troje]

SS currently in my "never trustfall" POE.

[Ich Troje]

I wonder what constitutes a strong town player.

Ich, did you mean strong play as a whole when town or strong town performance this game alone?

The latter can't be known until post game. I meant high impact players who are valuable tools to town when alive. Such as Pooky/Skitter.

It amuses me we both used the word impact. However, I find this to be unhelpful to suggest early on given the fact that they could be high impact scum.

High impact scum who still need to convince another town player to trust fall with them.

[Ich Troje]

Vulture + PP is a good initial trustfall pairing if I had to choose one thus far

[Ich Troje]

I wonder what constitutes a strong town player.

Ich, did you mean strong play as a whole when town or strong town performance this game alone?

The latter can't be known until post game. I meant high impact players who are valuable tools to town when alive. Such as Pooky/Skitter.

It amuses me we both used the word impact. However, I find this to be unhelpful to suggest early on given the fact that they could be high impact scum.

High impact scum who still need to convince another town player to trust fall with them.

They do. However, I’d rather just have towny people go as we become sure of pairings and stay away from the order being based off of a hierarchy of impact.

well there's an issue when you just yeet away a pairing like skitter+pooky early on is what I meant never was supposed to be a strict ruling, more of "try to find outside if possible" if u understand?

[Ich Troje]

my edibles are kicking in and this game is becoming a blur so glhf everyone im gonna peace out for the evening

[Ich Troje]

thats for my future trust fall partner btw

[Ich Troje]

currently my plan is to make Ich/Dats trust each other so if they r S/S the game is over and if they are T/T then I get to look for other baddies

Ich Dats what do you think of my plan?

That was my plan initially but I realized quickly how stupid that was and just PoEing people into never-pairings is much more effective.

[Ich Troje]

I understand that's something scum are scared of but then like how often do you actually solve 2/2 and then oops you give scum a free trustfall

[Ich Troje]

I understand that's something scum are scared of but then like how often do you actually solve 2/2 and then oops you give scum a free trustfall

Are you saying you're town and Dats is scum?

I am saying I am currently not townreading datisi and would rather not just shove through a trustfall bc of pooky's page 1 vibes

[Ich Troje]

good thing no one is going to sheep you on it then

[Ich Troje]

T3 and SS strong chance of S/S here.
SS accept T3's proposal.

[Ich Troje]

That's implying i had trust in the first place.

[Ich Troje]

That's implying i had trust in the first place.

Trusted mechanics wise, as in someone offering to fall in with you. The assumption here is that if you push me to accept T3, and I do it and he's scum, then you come out looking terrible.

I dont believe you're capable of accepting here so (:

[Ich Troje]

I admit i have no good meta on T3 nor any degree of success of accurately reading them but these bold "would never do as scum"gambits are tbe type of thing he does as scum to their scum buddy to make it seem like they can't be partnered ever here.

[Ich Troje]

That was my plan initially but I realized quickly how stupid that was and just PoEing people into never-pairings is much more effective.

What's your definition of "never-pairings" here?

Meaning people who we don't let trust pair anyone

[Ich Troje]

Ig we can force t3 to trust different people and see what happens / if they take it ...

I feel like t3/dats would be interesfing but also like maybe a50 shouls do stuff before we force pairings i'm realizing

this post gives me massive scumpings. I dont know why it just vibes so wrongly with me.

Can you explain why you reached this conclusion here skitter?

[Ich Troje]

I hate i cant vote people lmao

[Ich Troje]

I'd like to flip SS with Vulture here

[Ich Troje]

Ig we can force t3 to trust different people and see what happens / if they take it ...

I feel like t3/dats would be interesfing but also like maybe a50 shouls do stuff before we force pairings i'm realizing

this post gives me massive scumpings. I dont know why it just vibes so wrongly with me.

Can you explain why you reached this conclusion here skitter?

Which part

The part where you want T3 to randomly trust people, as well as the T3/Dats pairing.

[Ich Troje]

I admit i have no good meta on T3 nor any degree of success of accurately reading them but these bold "would never do as scum"gambits are tbe type of thing he does as scum to their scum buddy to make it seem like they can't be partnered ever here.

On the contrary, if I flip scum (and I will flip first, probably), it just makes it seem like he can't be town.

lmao when u subconsciously slip that you could flip scum >>

[Ich Troje]

I'm obvtown anyways so it's ok.

[Ich Troje]

[Ich Troje]

How about we all try to TRUST each other (not the mechanic..like really have faith in each other)? I -of course mean the TOWN-ALIGNED players here (and I can foresee someone asking "how do I know everyone else's alignment" which would be a bad interpretation of what I'm saying, so...)

Let's first vote (yes, VOTE( for our towniest reads. Like, I'd vote Vulture & PP. Then we count the votes and see which players have the highest votes. Then the highest player states their top two players they can read well. NOT their top TRs, and NOT their preferred pairing.. the two players they can READ well (might be required to provide a record of some kind). Then they tell us their read on these particular two. This way we know where everybody stands with some reasoning. Like, I TR X because I know how to read X (in my case, my TR on Vulture would be voided although he is my top TR because I do NOT have a record to show I can read him with precision. However, my read on PP should be accounted for because I do have a good -lucky - record reading him).

Prhaps when we've done all that we'd have a much better idea of how to move on than trying to play this individually (as we always do)

So, I'll hold the record:

A50: Vulture + PP

Not voting: Datisi/Ich Troje/PenguinPower/PookyTheMagicalBear/skitter30/Something_Smart/T3/Umlaut/Vulture

VC:

PP (1)
Vulture (1)

i dont understand quite whats going on here but this is town a50 im pretty sure based on complexity lmao

[Ich Troje]

also im sick asf rn, brain not working too well.

[Ich Troje]

I'm not seeing why people are townreading PP here because it doesn't feel like they've really reached out of either their town or scumrange here. While I *do* see traits I've seen from town PP before I don't think they should be first choice yeeted here because thus far I don't see any real complexity coming from the slot.

[Ich Troje]

admittedly I'm not as sold on T3/SS solve, it's been degrading since my hard accusation and now I see everyone as scummy

except vulture.

vulture is decidedly not scummy

and ig pooky.

[Ich Troje]

well first we decide who to throw in the "never getting trusted" box of 4 people who are most susp.

then we begin pairing off the 6 that aren't in there. We do it by having one person trust each of the other 5

if nothing happens we start actually pairing off pair by pair

and if both scum are in the bottom 4 we win the game.

also nobody in the bottom 4 should get mad and ragepair someone else in the bottom 4

people get mis-read its ok, but if a scumbag escapes this game becomes way harder

mans just copied my whole ass strategy smh

[Ich Troje]

Idk maybe umlaut?

I don't know why I signed up for this game, I can't read half the plist.

I signed up because the setup sounded interesting but now I have no idea what I'm actually supposed to be doing if I can't try and form wagons

I thus declare ye 2 as trust and trustee

[Ich Troje]

I would sure hate to be eaten by a tiger

good thing im town af

Who else is town to you at this point?

[Ich Troje]

I was going to ask if I should put out some more trusts before exiting the game but I think it's not really helpful.

You all should at least strongly consider that maybe T3 is just town. And don't be too confident in Skitter, I've soured on that slot a bit.

Datisi and Skitter are not scum together. (I'm trying to get in the habit of saying things out loud that I think are too obvious to say out loud)

There's not really anyone right now whom I would call a hard townread but I like both Vulture and Ich Troje for town.

Funny because thats my intended trust target if not pooky

[Ich Troje]

SS are u flipping town?

[Ich Troje]

Though, this isn't a situation where you should take my word, so I'm not sure why you're asking.

oh I dunno maybe the fact I was scumreading you at the beginning and that paranoia is still there despite your recent postings making me feel better?
at the very least if you flip scum we can just box out T3 and Dats and probably win.

[Ich Troje]

where's mod to flip this

[Ich Troje]

I give my blessing to the Vulture / Ich Troje pairing

me too

[Ich Troje]

mfw SS flips as scum:

[Ich Troje]

Skitter, what do you think this is going to flip?

[Ich Troje]

bc I think everyone else is townier than u

[Ich Troje]

so pee pee poo poo

[Ich Troje]

admittedly I'm not as sold on T3/SS solve, it's been degrading since my hard accusation and now I see everyone as scummy

except vulture.

vulture is decidedly not scummy

and ig pooky.

?

are you saying this is contradictory?

[Ich Troje]

because denied.

[Ich Troje]

what I found scummy is that you aren't towntelling and I don't exactly have reasons to townread you here unless Umlaut flips scum here.

I have a current PoE solve but by no means do I feel confident in 100% it because I respect nearly everyone's scumgames here. If you're town it'll be fine as long as we keep flipping purely town because we can be off by a margin of 2 players with 2 scum alive and still win with a proper 4 person PoE.

Who do you think is scum? You said you think SS+Umlaut are both town - so what is your view of the gamestate here?

[Ich Troje]

I'm literally masons with Best Bird

I cc mason

[Ich Troje]

a50 lowkey rushing to pair with a person who townreads them but trying to not seem as though they are, how quaint.

[Ich Troje]

idk maybe im meta biased based on my pool of 1 game with vulture but they are exuding that same vibe here

[Ich Troje]

yeah on reread that does look really bad and weird from vulture's end too

[Ich Troje]

except scum are going to be getting desperate after failing to get into a pairing on d1 if they aren't outside the PoE.

you and a50 are fairly consensus PoE by the others. trying to appeal to people within the PoE rather than outside is a pretty decent way for scum to get a trust going there.

[Ich Troje]

its like thats the type of thing i would personally be like "oh no red flag alert"


just like where i just saw t3 express a townread on me here - don't worry, i noticed, i was just stashing the noticing for a moment like this to pull out - where its trying to cozy up to someone who might be inclined to trust with you.

[Ich Troje]

skitter, consider that I have expressed a willingness to pair with vulture and the easy way for them would be to just follow me along(since they do not know my meta here as my identity isn't quite public within this game afaik)

[Ich Troje]

oh nvm they do know my main - people who know my main would play much more carefully even if I'm townreading them lol

[Ich Troje]

@skitts: I can't really explain the Vulture TR using words, but -at least- I can now explain the SR on Ich:

i dont understand quite whats going on here but this is town a50 im pretty sure based on complexity lmao

except scum are going to be getting desperate after failing to get into a pairing on d1 if they aren't outside the PoE.

you and a50 are fairly consensus PoE by the others. trying to appeal to people within the PoE rather than outside is a pretty decent way for scum to get a trust going there.

Once pretty sure I was Town, now trying to appeal to people in the PoE (except I declared Vulture to be my top TR way early into D1 that I didn't even know who ws leaving and who would be included in said PoE). Ya feel?

damn not having static reads = scummy now RIP !!

[Ich Troje]

its because now we have flips

[Ich Troje]

you have been in my bottom 4 fairly consistently throughout the game.

thats poe.

[Ich Troje]

it turns out when someone seems extra desperate to get a quick trustfall that can tend to alter a read on them

[Ich Troje]

whatever im not gonna get annoyed rn

i should have been sleeping a while ago. goodnight

[Ich Troje]

maybe i misread something and misworded some shit but my read on the vibes of what a50 is pushing is still not sitting right with me at all and thats my overall point in terms of that.

[Ich Troje]

because mainly with the context of umlaut saying they requested vulture/I pair before that it was something that particularly stood out to me

[Ich Troje]

lmao and the scumclaim

[Ich Troje]

lmao and the scumclaim

Stop it. You know I can be mean when I'm upset. Let's not go down that route, OK?

if you get upset over being called scum than thats a you problem

[Ich Troje]

trust:vulture

there's 1 scum between you 2 regardless and I'm not letting this be forced.

[Ich Troje]

VC 2.1

Scum players have great interest in breaking mindmelds, as they create game losing situations for scums.

---

Ich Troje Trusts:

Vulture

Not Trusting:

Almost50, T3, skitter30, PookyTheMagicalBear, PenguinPower, Datisi, Vulture

Deadline in (expired on 2021-07-30 09:40:00).[/color]

GERRYOAT OMG

[Ich Troje]

i think ich's trust is also kinda townie

On contrary.. and to put it in their own words:

except scum are going to be getting desperate after failing to get into a pairing on d1 if they aren't outside the PoE.

Do you realize how Scum!Ich feels if Vulture is Town and does accept my Trust here? I'd recommend you Trust PP as soon as the thread reopens.

you completely ignored the last part of my sentence. I'm not in the PoE here. but nice try

[Ich Troje]

i kinda wanna be flipped here on the basis that people sheep on just pairing whoever the fuck outside of dats/t3/a50 after I do.

[Ich Troje]

i think ich's trust is also kinda townie

Why?

at first i was thinking that snap reaction 'eh i think there's scum in you two' doesn't feel like something scum would think in the moment

as i mull over it more tho i'm actually less sure: if ich is scum and wanted to leave on a vulture pairing he probably sort of needs to interject there in order to preempt a50/vulture

but all-in-all gun-to-head it feels like a townie reaction to em

im acknowledging that i have seen this but (frankly) don't think its worth validating.

[Ich Troje]

ok goodnight for real

[Ich Troje]

I want vulture to trustfall me

[Ich Troje]

People be saying im towny but dance around pairing me up wkth anyone - where's the action to prove those words

[Ich Troje]

trust:t3

No i will not explain right now

[Ich Troje]

untrust

[Ich Troje]

i still have shifted to townreading t3 but i will allow this in case im stupid and wrong

[Ich Troje]

the reason being that a scum T3 wouldn't just deflate like they have here - they're gonna keep going with whatever they were doing, but instead, town winning? t3 just sorta vibing. someone said something about t3 just not being up to speed and that being scummy but i disagree with that assessment.

[Ich Troje]

Scum trying to get a fast way out of the poe because I townread them.

no, more like town trying to end the game on my terms without any room for error.

[Ich Troje]

am i insane for thinking this was a planned interaction btwn ich/t3?

yes

[Ich Troje]

Yes.

[Ich Troje]

Do you see how much vibing they've been doing? thats something you see mainly in t3's towngames when they're bored. I have not seen a t3 scumgame where he just does nothing like this

[Ich Troje]

like legit - if you look at t3 slot holistically, it is very clear they are town here IMO after you take into account the fact they've been barely a presence in the game

[Ich Troje]

actually make plays?
as town, he has a leeway of 2 "poe" slots, and town has gotten 2 back to back town trusts, so I understand why they might not feel so inclined to try when town is just winning anyways.

[Ich Troje]

I literally already explained

[Ich Troje]

nope.

[Ich Troje]

I have in chat mafia

[Ich Troje]

And 2 recent games, one of which you were in.

[Ich Troje]

maybe im way too big braining it idk

[Ich Troje]

trust:skitter

leaving this, we can discuss rest of day since we have time.

if skitter were to flip scum tho - trust me on my t3 read.

[Ich Troje]

more like there's enough flips where I can have confident reads and not want to let scum control the gamestate ergo I'm taking initiative

[Ich Troje]

trust: a50

Of the remainder i townread pooky the most

this is the bottom of my poe and is a mistake :/

but i will insta trust t3 the next day so whatever

[Ich Troje]

a50 is

[Ich Troje]

why would i trust some1 who is in the bottom of my poe lmfao

[Ich Troje]

i'm like pretty blatantly town here and you can end the game by just trusting me here instead of having me have to choose next dayphase

[Ich Troje]

lmao i'm definitely putting you in the box on a50 scum flip

[Ich Troje]

t3 isn't *technically* clear but they don't townread me and thats going to be a headache on an a50 scumflip

[Ich Troje]

man a 4 way with me/t3/pooky/dats sounds so bad..skitter please LOL

[Ich Troje]

well pooky you see you need 2 consenting parties in this setup to get anywhere, just because 1 person has the answer doesnt mean they can just force it through, the other person has to accept too.

[Ich Troje]

yes, I'm going to totally reveal my main so my scumbuddy can unnaturally slip my identity.

you can look at any scumgame i have on an alt and see I don't do that.

[Ich Troje]

yes but then u make it so i have to suffer

[Ich Troje]

how would it be suffering?

bc trying to figure out which of yalls is a50's scumbud will require thinking. i'm going to lean t3 there very strongly but obviously my paranoia is much greater there.just a nagging voice being like "but what if t3 did a funny scum play and you fell for it again"

simply winning by trusting town today will be much easier on my soul

[Ich Troje]

i dont think you are necessarily town here.

[Ich Troje]

how would it be suffering?

bc trying to figure out which of yalls is a50's scumbud will require thinking.

i'm going to lean t3 there very strongly

but obviously my paranoia is much greater there.just a nagging voice being like "but what if t3 did a funny scum play and you fell for it again"

simply winning by trusting town today will be much easier on my soul

Y tho

dont think this requires elaboration

[Ich Troje]

if A50 is scum then T3 gets mad town points for not accepting Ich

thats my exact point.

[Ich Troje]

He was jusf ur biggest townread, ehat changes upon an a50 scumflip

can you like read what I am saying rather than just asking "why" repeatedly?

[Ich Troje]

if i lose to scum t3 again im blaming you skitter

[Ich Troje]

if i lose to scum t3 again im blaming you skitter

You won that game after my own scumteam nightkilled me.

yes and otherwise we were going to lose

[Ich Troje]

Oh ok i misread that sorry
Pedit i said i think he's scum and u should pair with pooky
If u pair with t3 at that point that's not my problem

Also t3 didn't appear to be online while the trust was open so idk why we're giving him any points at all, we dont know what would have happened if he had been here

it feels that pooky is more concerned with giving me "scum points" for it despite that rather than even thinking about giving t3 townpoints.

[Ich Troje]

untrust

please specify untrust target

i was only trusting a single person at the time...

didn't think that needed clarification.

ill just vibe and let it sit there if so

[Ich Troje]

ok

:/

[Ich Troje]

it feels that pooky is more concerned with giving me "scum points" for it despite that rather than even thinking about giving t3 townpoints.

mostly because the things you say don't make sense from an objective point of view

i dont need to make sense to be right

[Ich Troje]

the fuck is this game

and i know he was right there but he could've thought the untrust counted so the fact you were immediately saying that he would've accepted is weird

i dont wanna angleshoot but yes

[Ich Troje]

i feel like pooky's post is overlooking scenarios where scum decides to big brain and not immediately accept things

that is not what i want to be thinking about, but something about this game feels off

if nobody is big braining then it's like basically guaranteed there is scum in skitt/a50. i'm wondering if there's a chance scum!pooky doesn't accept this immediately for Some reason

reducing the pool of town candidates in the final 4 would be 1, refuse to accept 1, then accept another, the former person gets sussed for being unaccepted by a flipped scum

[Ich Troje]

untrust: t3

[Ich Troje]

untrust: t3

why?

see: my post immediately after

t3 trusting pooky just gives me bad vibes and then like - yeah

t3 scum back on the menu lmao

[Ich Troje]

t3 is the biggest candidate of the "avoid accept" squad

[Ich Troje]

t3 is the pinnacle of "really weird and stupid plays" so

literally in the last game he hardguiltied his partner and got shot the next night as the traitor LAMO

[Ich Troje]

oh, is town koba very static in your view?
does town koba refuse to bring into account new evidence/theories?

no, didn't think so.

[Ich Troje]

whatever. hopefully a50/skitter are indeed town

[Ich Troje]

gg. was not easy to win.

[Ich Troje]

am i insane for thinking this was a planned interaction btwn ich/t3?

oh look, one moment where i wasn't dumb

gg, thank for mod and thank for carry

the interaction was unplanned in terms of we didn't plan it together.

[Ich Troje]

twilight guesses make me feel vindicated in terms of the play i did to not just screw the other person over lol

at least we got the goal of being unaligned