Mini 2247: Mountain Dew Mafia (Game Over)

[Towelie]

This flavor sounds absolutely fucking revolting

VOTE: vft

p-edit: not as revolting as that font

[Towelie]

I chose it because I was trying to do a spambot vibe

i'm glad you're seizing your chance to be a [BIG SHOT]

[Towelie]

Really excited for this one

hopefully not in anticipation of dunking on us again, right?

-b (all posts have been me thus far)

[Towelie]

That’s why I’m dismayed it got met with indifference this game.

I like the sentiment expressed here and i think it's a little +town in that i think it's likely a scum player would be just looking for a way to get integrated into the thread more than trying to really develop reads based on reactions and probably doesn't think to post this postmortem on the initial trajectory after nobody really bit.

(Even if I think those reads would've probably been noisy as hell)

[Towelie]

Vote: Dunn

interesting, although there's no way to get from A to B for me (or rather I think the ones I can think of are implausible for dunn to open with)

[Towelie]

why wouldn't it be

I was assuming that all scum roles are non mountain dew drinks (hence "off brand") in which case its necessarily NOT a true claim

[Towelie]

I was assuming that all scum roles are non mountain dew drinks (hence "off brand") in which case its necessarily NOT a true claim [for him to be scum]

ebwop

[Towelie]

low complexity is not necessarily commensurate w/ normal, nor do i think cabd just started w/ a setup and haphazardly assigned roles to it.

That said, I don't think that makes Code Red slam dunk being a PR; this is analogous to the possibility assigning the protagonist of your flavor as a VT role in theme games, something that is well within the realm of what Cabd might do.

Your actions are incomprehensible. All I know is that you are lying about your role.

How do you know she's lying? She hasn't even really said anything concrete yet.

[Towelie]

low complexity is not necessarily commensurate w/ normal, nor do i think cabd just started w/ a setup and haphazardly assigned [flavor] to it.

ugh, ebwop again.

[Towelie]

Like I think in a dunn scum world you have to at least believe it's not so beloved to the mod that it'd be not in the game at all and a fakeclaim instead.

I don't believe in a world where scum roles are anything but non mountain dew drinks at this point with mountain dew drink fakeclaims; it just makes the scum alighment being "competitor brand" extremely sloppy if this isn't the case.

That said if LLD has something that contradicts this I'll revisit when that time comes, but before that happens i'll mostly be basing my dunn read off of this interaction and not anything nebulously setup related because the pieces don't fit correctly atm.

[Towelie]

See this, I don't buy.

i don't have an issue w/ Dunn's explanation here, and i think frame of reference on whether or not one thinks of [claiming flavor => giving away info] is really the key to interpreting this action as something other than null (which is how i was inclined to sort it)

[Towelie]

have that level of town clearing on it.

I don't think it was intended to be town clearing? It's either his role or its a mod provided fakeclaim. Either way it's under his purview.

I can see a world where town-dunn got that role and wanted to flex on noddy and me for getting it, or a world where scum-dunn had it as his fakeclaim and wanted to basically do the same thing. I did something similar when I came out of the gate being super excited to roll Meiling in GIF's Touhou game. I wasn't Meiling at all, but if I had been I'd likely have done the same thing (in fairness, that's hard to say, not having had that opportunity)

actually, noddy was Flandre legitimately that game and basically did the same thing.

[Towelie]

Dunn's already done something that is completely off meta from what I've observed scum him do.

which is what?

[Towelie]

like for real, I will fucking order a terrible towel off amazon if scum flips and it flips as a mountain dew flavor

(this is not a real out of game wager i would never ever actually do this)

[Towelie]

I'm assuming Dunn.is town

just for claiming flavor?

that seems, i dunno, really obviously flimsy?

[Towelie]

Wisdom's vote on dunn is definitively rvs
Gamma's might just be inertial from rvs (although you should clarify)

I dont think wagon traction is a great tell here

[Towelie]

Therefore if anyone townreads Dunn I would expect those players to be of similar alignment. Eg if Dunn is town, person townreading Dunn is town and if Dunn scum person scum.

This makes basically no sense to me

[Towelie]

I don't have any issue with what you're saying in 114, although I think the meta deviation thing is a little overblown in general; he flavor claimed. It's...seriously within the realm of basically anyone's play given the right circumstances.

I'm having a harder time how you're getting the positive or negative interactions between other players and dunn based on dunn's own alignment, some of which have to obviously not know his alignment beforehand and evaluate it based on their interpretations of all of this. I think a town player could potentially come to either conclusion right here is what I'm saying.

[Towelie]

Those who defend a person who have been accused (I don’t want to say guiltied as I don’t know) combined with the meta shift tend to be of similar alignment.

I mean if that's just a general principle you hold then i can see how you got here but i guess i really don't think things are really ever this simple. I think the fact that you made 121 weakens what you were (i think) getting at in 111 which is making me question why you made 111 in the first place.

I don't really feel going further on this is going to help me read you so i'm keen to drop it unless you have anything else to clarify on it.

[Towelie]

Reasonable chance neither of {critter, SS} or {critter, Strange} are S/S is all i'm taking from this.

[Towelie]

low complexity is not necessarily commensurate w/ normal, nor do i think cabd just started w/ a setup and haphazardly assigned roles to it.

just did some follow up on this and i'm actually just dead fucking wrong:

Other: Players should expect a fairly balanced non-swingy game that plays more like a classic normal game from the 2013 era, with mountain dew flavor shamelessly bolted on top of it.

I'm having trouble figuring out how just the mere existence of code red becomes impossible w/ LLD's role when considering this

[Towelie]

(to be clear, i still think competitor brand = non mountain dew for scum)

[Towelie]

Other head here, don’t really know how your role implies code red is scum

[Towelie]

That's not what you said though. You said that my claim of Code Red was a true claim in post 56, even adding "why wouldn't it be?".

Now you're saying something different, you're saying that Code Red wouldn't be in the game.

I think that this kind of logical inconsistency coming from you strongly points towards scum.

VOTE: Lady Lambdadelta

regardless of the fact it's demonstrably a wrong vote now i don't like this previously quoted reason for voting her:

I think Cabd would refuse to allow a massclaim to break the game, or at least would prevent the named townie syndrome from happening. Given my role, I'm pretty confident that either there are some flavours in the game that you expect to be there that won't (see: Code Red)

or that some of the Mtn Dew flavours won't be town.

you're kinda just pretending the underlined doesn't exist when comparing this post w/ 56

[Towelie]

I have a light town lean on Toog because I think they softed their flavor which is +town for them, in my opinion

this seems about as lazy as the TR he gave on you; why is this town indicative for him in particular

[Towelie]

We already know that some people aren't town.

i feel like that's self evident and very obviously not an argument she would ever be seriously trying to make for you being scum

[Towelie]

this is about to tank hard claritywise isn't it

[Towelie]

i'm having a hard time both ideating and elucidating on how i feel about this atm and 213 is basically what i expected it was going to be, just a NACK of 210

i was trying to say that the underlined 108 presented a consistent view of the world compared w/ 56 to me

[Towelie]

and i was saying the potential for her original idea of some mountain dew flavors (yours in this case) was right in that post and therefore not a contradiction

ultimately it doesn't matter if i'm right or not, it matters what you plausibly thought at the time, but just the manner in which you prepared to turn this into a 1v1 at the time felt awkward to me

i'm done w/ it for the moment; i'll let you get your bearings

[Towelie]

Lady Lambadelta is Diet Mountain Dew, Macho Activated Innocent Child, aligned with On-Brand (Town)

Omega sigh.

I know, Nacho spoiled us and none of these reveals ever hold up to that brilliant post

[Towelie]

i'll start signing since notty is posting now

like unless you think there was a world where LLD is alive at like final 3 and uno reverse card's some shit i'm confused at the negative reaction to the claim

-b

p-edit: heh

[Towelie]

I'm saying her two different posts had a change in viewpoint.

and why is that scummy?

-b

[Towelie]

Dunn i'm also like ??? at me saying "imma let you get your bearings" (because you've been complaining that you've not been able to)

and you immediately decide to continue this convo instead of doing that

i actually am done w/ this for now

-b

[Towelie]

(Please note the last part of the -b is “ig ben is trash”)

[Towelie]

Critter

what did critter do between 166 and now, 166 seemed like a townread on critter?

-b

[Towelie]

Jesus I thought this was a quickhammer because of those posts wtf

i think you just inadvertently answered my Q to mush, who i now also think thought dunn was hammered.

-b

[Towelie]

With a fresh head today trying to take a more holistic approach toward the game, well, I don't have a very good feeling about it. I still don't know about dunn.

I think gamma is probably town, I'm starting to come around on critter town i think but that's mostly gut around how they handled the mush inquiries earlier.

Other than that this game is full of people who don't emit intentions very much early, are being deliberately close to chest, or have been mostly nonentities. If it comes down to it I am probably keen to sheep LLD d1.

I am a little worried we're seeing tenet pooky because this is how he approached coming over to inverted from forward (the appearance of wanting to engage vs actually wanting to engage - hence the "i'm around for 3 minutes and then i leave" kind of behavior)

-b

[Towelie]

There _wasn't_ a status quo at that poiint; it was literally his first post.

-b

[Towelie]

I will say dunn's perspective on toogeloo is a lot more nuanced here than it appeared to be in isekai

Dunn on toog in isekai "toog's opening looks weird because i expect him to be more forthright" => plummets to bottom of reads
here i feel like he might be acting on conflicting opinions (+town due to early flavor claim, -town due to toog's early stance on dunn)

-b

[Towelie]

Hi ssbm!

-notsci

[Towelie]

As of this point I have varying degrees of strength townreads on (Mush, Ssbm-slot, gamma)

[Towelie]

how did [a bear or another bear] get from "i'm sheeping LLD and i'm explicitly stating i haven't read anything" to "i have a legitimate scumread on dunn"

-b

[Towelie]

I’m wondering how they’re scumreading gamma?

[Towelie]

gamma scum

fairly hard disagree here, why?

-b

[Towelie]

sync apparently

-f

[Towelie]

i don't know what this even is

you're not being forced out of the game

you're not under a ton of pressure

bare minimum of clarity here would be cool

-b

[Towelie]

How is that a catch?

honestly i'm inclined to +1 this post; i'm not trying to gotcha anyone i just want explanations for shit lol

-b

[Towelie]

bear minimum, if you will

i will also +1 this post

-b

[Towelie]

dunn every time you encourage me i just imagine palpatine behind me going "yessssssssssss"

i don't know what you are yet but that's empirically not helping

-b

[Towelie]

i feel like you were trying to tell me that in 378 now, so fair enough, i'll ask pooky when he's around

-b

[Towelie]

i don't feel like someone looks at your iso and takes you out of their poe pool so that's not really resonating with me
-b

[Towelie]

i am somehow quickly 180ing to town on noraa and i can't explain it super well yet and thisisfine.jepg

-b

[Towelie]

implying our lord and savior baja blast isn't the protagonist?

fuck baja blast

-b[oth of us]

[Towelie]

ultimate doom

thy flesh consumed still one of the best map packs ever

-b

[Towelie]

Are you at null or scum wrt me?

Your scum read on me is pretty dumb. Pooky's always right. U scum scum.

Eh, it’s not exactly well reasoned but I haven’t seen a town post from your hydra yet so idc, I’ll put out lame points however much I want

You enjoy your good days while they last. When Pooky gets back and kicks your ass hard, your scum buddies are gonna have to bus you hard.

Why are you guys scumreading gamma

[Towelie]

Towelie, why do you guys townread Mush?

The reaction thinking you were hammered

I panicked myself and had to check with Bork that it wasn’t a hammer

[Towelie]

Towelie, why do you guys townread Mush?

that's notty's read so i'll defer to him on it

only thing i really have is consistency of trajectory on critter once she thought dunn was flipping (went from town to 'uhhhhhh' which is what i'd have done) and i acknowledge that's pretty much nothing; i don't have much else there since she's being deliberately obfuscatory

-b

[Towelie]

Give me a moment and I’ll take a look at it more in depth.

[Towelie]

Why was that a town reaction though?

They weren't scumreading me before that point, and kind of got locked into scumreading me after - something which they still haven't explained for all the words they type. And they prefer to vote strangematter here even though they seemed pretty confident that I was flipping red (I am but not the kind you're hoping for).

She wasn’t explicitly townreading you either, though? She kinda said she was keeping an eye on you, and frankly your reaction after LLD confirmed herself felt kinda icky to me as well, so it’s in the realm of believable that her read went south like that?

And multiple people aren’t explaining their reads this game and it’s a bit of an eye roll but I know I’ve done it and do it myself so I can’t really talk.

[Towelie]

Meh. It's +town but not conclusive. Funny though.

i'm probably here too

i also still think town gamma still being thirsty town

-b

[Towelie]

LLD, my recommendation for today is that we eliminate Milk & Mocha. I think Pooky is playing to scum meta, and Noraa is playing to scum meta. At least, they should not be allowed to post as they currently are in thread unchecked. They still haven't explained why they are scumreading me.

Which posts in particular and why?

[Towelie]

Towelie, you're taking more of a back seat this game than I would have expected. Is there a reason for that, or do I have wrong expectations, or am I incorrect that you are taking a back seat?

I started my new job Wednesday and don’t have time to try hard 24/7, plus y’all are some wordy mfers in this game

[Towelie]

LLD, my recommendation for today is that we eliminate Milk & Mocha. I think Pooky is playing to scum meta, and Noraa is playing to scum meta. At least, they should not be allowed to post as they currently are in thread unchecked. They still haven't explained why they are scumreading me.

Which posts in particular and why?

I don't know if bork head is familiar with Bloodstained, but notsci head is. Pooky in that game was very blunt about sheeping like he does so here. I remember Noraa as a poster who... posts a lot. This game they are very quiet and have very little to say about the game. I don't find the cop stuff to be townie, the opposite in fact. And then when they slipped and said they were reading me as scum and never being able to explain why. Why did we collectively allow them to say "I don't know why my read changed"? Also, as I pointed out earlier, they were asking nothing questions which felt like scum.

This is ans was notty.

I think that’s a weird comparison to make given the role he had? His role WANTED to die. I doubt Cabd made a similar scum role?

[Towelie]

Towelie, you're taking more of a back seat this game than I would have expected. Is there a reason for that, or do I have wrong expectations, or am I incorrect that you are taking a back seat?

Would help if you outlined what your expectations are.

Noddy has been basically nonpresent due to the reasons he gave.

I wouldnt characterize myself as taking a back seat, but i dont have well developed reads atm. I feel like a lot of the conversations this far are a little bit derivative in that they are starting with premises that i dont necessarily think are AI (like whether a slot is pushing another slot, or underdeveloped meta talk), other than maybe with you, so im putting interactions with you at a premium, even if i dont have a lot of confidence in my ability to read you. I cant recall i game where i have had to try. I would like to continue whatever we have going on here.

my home internet is down till mon so im stuck on mobile till then so forgive lack of verbosity / presence till then

-b

[Towelie]

Not really sure what to do with that dunn. Is it the notsci head or the me head you expect something other than what you're getting? Obviously ffery isnt involved here but i daresay youve probably dealt with noddy besides that last kate bishop game

-b

[Towelie]

Can we consider any "x is playing to scum/town meta" to have a mandatory [citation needed] for the rest of the game?
.-b

[Towelie]

. I do not have a top scumread right now. I more have a “would elim” group

this is straight up mood fot me. i am at "collecting really tentative townreads" and not much else

-b

[Towelie]

I guess mostly Notsci.

Ok well 95% of the posts this game have been me.

You have my scumgame in w13. Not sure what else we have played recently together but i feel like if you wanted to read the hydra via meta youd be looking at me considering the volume spread

-b

[Towelie]

not really apropos of anything but i designed the role that caused pooky to want to get elimed in bloodstained. Trust me, im familiar with everything that came of that

-b

[Towelie]

I feel lkke trying to equate behavior this game to mafia beloved princess motivation is a little =/

-b

[Towelie]

Gamma and SSBM are both town, pushing gamma especially is incredibly sus.

[Towelie]

She’s fairly transparently trying to figure things out? And I was townreading Toog as well. Both felt to me as if you picked them out of their isekai game and dropped them right in here. Both were town.

[Towelie]

What measuring stick are you using to judge gamma? And which of you is here?

[Towelie]

I’m figuring it’s noraa, which is what confuses me.

[Towelie]

You just played with scum gamma, didn’t you? I feel like he is hitting completely different tonal markers than I noticed from a skim of FF. There’s also the matter of “If gamma is scum, he knows you’re trolling town. Why bother CCing?” Which it just feels like your read feels very one dimensional in that aspect.

There is one concern I have with the claim but I’m planning to discuss that behind the curtain first.

[Towelie]

Why do you think this is scum-gamma who is trolling after two scum losses compared to town gamma relieved to not be scum and thus making more questionable choices?

[Towelie]

You’re familiar with my stance on anti-town behaviors, no? Like, I could see a too scummy to be scum argument, sure. But you went in the span of two posts from “it’s towny on a surface level” to “it’s scummy on every level”

What is the scummy mentality doing what he does? What is he hoping to gain for his team off of the play?

[Towelie]

And it should be known, I townread gamma off his very first post. And it’s proceeded to grow in strength as the game has gone on.

[Towelie]

Both of you go cool off.

[Towelie]

I dont think there is a universe where a scum gamma gotcha ccs that nebulous claim here in order to make a desperate deathtunnel on what he perceives as a pr threat.

Noraas attitude seems town enough here, although i recognize margin for error there. Im less sure about that than gamma but i think it is town.

If both slots were to flip town i would probably be willing to townbank wisdom too for the attitude around it. I dont necessarily think the inverse is true.

Mush i have no fucking clue what youre trying to do in 797

Skitter i have stuff to say to you but it probably has to wait till i have a comp again. So much of your stance on m&m seemed like it shouldnt have contributed to a scumread and i dont like that you ended up voting there after the blurb you had

-b

[Towelie]

Noddy and i arent friends right now so i can post

JA'MARR FUCKING CHASE

[Towelie]

We’re playing like ass rn

[Towelie]

Lol that post was noddy complaining that we are shredding the ravens d

We will prolly throw a real vote tomorrow after we both have time to hash some stuff

-b

[Towelie]

Its very clearly "i am willing to bet the game on x" and not "i literally know x is true because my role pm says it is"

-b

[Towelie]

Fix it by voting kyouko s_s or emmi

Bite me

I could vote Emmi tho

[Towelie]

I made it very clear that I was referring to the latter

I have to strain my suspension of disbelief that you felt that this would elicit an alignment indicative response vs someone treating it like how i and skitter said

-b

[Towelie]

@skitter- what did you think of Dunn coming off of LLDs reveal

I felt very underwhelmed with it despite not having an issue with the earlier posting from him last

-notty

[Towelie]

Got a little time over lunch today so I'll start w/ talking to skitter about stuff and see where it takes me. I haven't really read in depth since ssbm entered.

re: Gamma. Glad we agree here. I feel pretty strongly about this one. Notty pointed out to me that Gamma had just rolled parity something in a different game, so if he's scum he may have gotten the idea from that, but I really doubt it, I think parity stuff is just on the rise in games lately.

Towelie - don't know yet. i think bork is easier for me to read of the 2 of them but he's feeling more ~muted~ than i saw the last couple of times i've played with him. like town-him was p obvious in perpetual elo, and once i knew what scum-him looked like was also very easy to pick out in tenet. i'm not seeing that here yet. nothing in particularly scummy, but nothing that i can really point to that makes me think town either.

I honestly feel like this is almost exactly like my tenet D1; mostly observation mode but picking up things where I could and generally starting to form reads around it without really being in 'attack mode' per se, but I don't really feel like harping on your take, perpetual ELO this isn't, for sure, but I also felt like there was a lot of meat there early game whereas here sans Dunn there really wasn't.

re: Mush. Obviously there's thought there, yes, but ultimately I'm having trouble I guess seeing MUSH push on things that seem like they matter as far as alignment is concerned vs like weird gotchas that don't ultimately mean anything. Like this most recent wisdom push I loathe because nobody goes, internally, "Well as a town player my role PM doesn't say X players are town with me, so therefore I should not be at all hyperbolic about the certainty of my reads" and therefore wisdom is scum.

EMMI: I guess I can see not liking the dunn vote, although I feel the dunn vote is internally consistent with EMMI's later 420 and I don't feel the lack of unvote is scummy. Ultimately still in my elim pool just due to lack of anything noteworthy, but having trouble finding the same scum motivations you're finding.

Dunn: really don't know. Probably would have a better handle on this read w/o the IC reveal (which I'm fine w/, but here's the one spot it suffers for me) just because it gave him one right thing to do as either alignment in aborting push. Still want Dunn meta-ers to like, you know, actually link some content either way beyond what I generally call "armchair meta" e.g. "he was / wasn't like this in X". I think that's lazy at best from a lot of slots.

M&M: I agree w/ everything you said in your post about them, but like, none of that seems like it's scummy other than the double-down, and my biggest issue was that there was a whole paragraph of qualifying non AI stuff before you got there. Even so, what is their objective here as scum other than pushing a read you don't agree with?

Edit: this is one of the first blurbs I wrote over this wall-ish post and seeing holistically where I came out elsewhere I'm a little more sympathetic to your read here. I'm not writing this slot off because I genuinely don't understand their motivation to act how they're acting atm, but I guess I don't see any obvious scum motivation here other than to maybe create a distraction which seems of limited utility to me. For people saying pooky is acting like bloodstained, people should probably realize that pooky was legitimately trying to get elimed in bloodstained because it skipped a day. We're not going to see him playing for that objective regardless of alignment. I generally feel like pooky becomes a little easier to read as the game goes on. Not much experience w/ noraa other than I was very frustrated w/ her slot in tenet before she repped out and was town. This feels pretty similar to me in that regard.

S_S: I am worried about being wrong on "being underwhelming" being a scumtell for S_S - you saw this firsthand in tenet, and I basically had the same (wrong) take there based on a prior encounter in illicit. I don't really know how to read S_S but I don't feel like he ever got to a point where he was "whelming" in tenet. Even in illicit he was probably limmable if I hadn't been an idiot and saw a PR tell that wasn't there. What meta stuff are you basing this off of?

agree on critter

I don't have any huge issues w/ StrangeMatter's content right now, really, other than there isn't a ton of it, but signal/noise ratio is pretty high.

agree on wisdom although I'm not super up to date on SSBM ISO just because there's a decent # of posts and most of it came in this weekend when I was limited to mobile. Rereading a lot of saturday/sunday stuff today.

Not throwing a vote down till notty and I sync on the day.

UNVOTE:

-b

[Towelie]

On pg 5 seems to me Dunn claimed Code Red truthfully, LLD saw it and thought it would be believable for Cabd to make Code Red a scum role, but she didnt realize that town gets mtn dew flavors. Now she's claiming her role cant exist if town only gets mtn dew flavors and my guess is that's because

she rolled a competitor and didnt connect that town would all be the tennessee original

VOTE: LLD

(notwithstanding the IC vote which I could see a lot of different ways to get to from both alignments)

I am having a hard time believing this take; one would have to like completely avoid reading their role PM or wincons or anything to have this kind of internal thought process, and moreover if you were to think about that assertion: if that really were the case where someone would have a competitor flavor and no fakeclaim of something else then this game would be breakable by flavor (which means it's probably wrong)

-b

[Towelie]

I think when easy lims are pushed that more often than not they're town. This has nothing to do with SM's posting, just based on my impression of the pushes on them.

how do you characterize the difference between the pushes on StrangeMatter (easy (mis)lim) vs the ones on Emmi (a scumread)?

-b

[Towelie]

random thought: I will say in our hydra game together skitter had a lot of "if X doesn't happen by Y for Z then slot is probably scum" so I know at least this genuinely is an approach she takes to solve certain slots which is probably a point in VFT favor

-b

[Towelie]

And I can assure you that the more people engage me and hold discussions that I am interested in engaging in

You play w/ lilith a lot on the TLDNE hydra, right? How do you rate what she's done so far?

-b

[Towelie]

Mostly just trying to elicit some engagement, and I thought you might have some insight about how she approaches town vs scum.

In addition I was kinda hoping lilith could be a backdoor into sorting that slot by someone with experience there after my colossal failure to get it right in MELO

-b

[Towelie]

Seems very performative to be responding in the game then randomly go backwards and pick a post. This is something scum me does. It’s NAI at best.

looking back, i really don't think this happened; ssbm seemed like they were starting w/ quoting low numbered posts, rather than playing the game in the moment and then swapping to going back to grabbing an early iso

-b

[Towelie]

Critter personally how did you get to 430 froom ssbm's opening, it's not super clear from your ISO

-b

[Towelie]

I've found pooky town to be very easy to pick out from time to time. It's not been a tool i can use in this game so far. Usually he'll get into it w/ someone by now. I'd more trust my ability to read him than noraa.

(Skitter in the game we played together it's kinda how i felt midgame when they were going back and forth w/ cakez)

-b

[Towelie]

or that scum thinks they'll actually go far / get anywhere by pushing someone that way

this is basically my holdup on M&M right now unless you just think they're trolling and are unconcerned with the strategy behind what they're trying to accomplish other than creating noise

-b

[Towelie]

And I'm worried that Dunn may indeed be town, but Wisdom might not.

i don't think i'd ever flip wisdom before i'd flip m&m here just because i think wisdom scum would be predicated on m&m scum (i just think gamma is town irrespective) otherwise i don't think he puts up such a high guard on protecting them both out of the gate when they went at it

-b

[Towelie]

bolded: not sure why you're bringign this up

contextualizing how i get to town pooky in a way only you are likely familiar with and that i'm not seeing it here so far

-b

[Towelie]

i

think

i'm ok w/ vft for now. I'd probably expect skitter to capitulate / promise to research my comparison of myself to my tenet self (and it's not like we're under pressure atm that she'd lose ground by ceding a townread to mollify me)

either that or she doesn't think i'll be able to catch her anyway

which is probably correct

but gun to head i'd say town here

*winces*

-b

[Towelie]

i guess ... i'm not sure i get this because this isn't really how i'd try to get to town-pooky at all

I'm not saying it is something you'd do, I was trying to establish context for something I potentially want to do in a way that some other player in the game could potentially relate to

i'm not really sure why this is a thing

-b

[Towelie]

i don't know either, i'm confused by this whole tangent

@bork

I don't really have anything material to say about it at this point lol

-b

[Towelie]

don't think scum-me would try to be mollifying u

no? because i feel like you did a ton of that in ELO (mostly when you found out kismet was me)

-b

[Towelie]

Earlier page tops have been converted to proper vote counts. No prods as you are all very active busy bees!

I am the only insect here! LLD I think M&M is town and struggle with words why. Are you sure you want to push M&M? I will lend my vote if you need it but I think it was just an attempt to draw the NK going horribly wrong.

ew

This post feels gross

[Towelie]

i guess you're somebody who always has seemed to have an answer key to me in the past and maybe my expectations (from either alignment-you) are unrealistic because of that

-b

[Towelie]

What’s mollifying?

Pedit I mean you can try lol. I will find words later. I am more like some sodas in that I need to freeze in the fridge for a bit. I will grow on you.

I don't like your SSBM push either fwiw

[Towelie]

either way noting that i dislike your present read on me
~ skitter

fine. don't like that we got here but there's clearly nothing to really be done on this front w/ this convo

-b

[Towelie]

I don't think you missed what I was actually saying in that post and think you're trying to write it off as something it's not!

I wait with bated breath for the kyo case.

[Towelie]

Critter can you answer my 953?

-b

(unsigned posts are notty in case that's not clear)

[Towelie]

Explaining more is antitown but in a few days it will be obvious or I will explain it

this game could probably use a little more transparency from like...everyone, esp if you want that lim today

-b

[Towelie]

bolded: not sure why you're bringign this up

contextualizing how i get to town pooky in a way only you are likely familiar with and that i'm not seeing it here so far

-b

Which game was that

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=86835

[Towelie]

i don't understand what's bad about 415. it notably has other flavors in it. shrug?

-b

[Towelie]

critter's town

lolno

[Towelie]

if it's not signed, it's him

i'm not sure how to handle you at the moment and i'm not even remote fucking sure how we got here but i get the overall impression that trying to deal with you right now is going to not go well and i don't fucking get it

-b

[Towelie]

I for one love that its okay for LLD to make the choice when its someone not named Dunnstral, but when it was Dunnstral you started your Kyo push!

ninja-
mhm

hi skitter!

Ik youre scumleaning us but I'm pretty sure you should go back and fact check the original part of this post!

[Towelie]

I'm not even talking to you lol

-b

[Towelie]

SM is almost certainly scum with that iso

THANK you, god damn.

It's pretty hard to sell that myself, but if someone whose brain isn't made of mildew and nematodes sees it too, maybe they'll be able to make the argument more gracefully than I can.

I’d sheep an SM wagon but I think there is a scum in Dunn/Kyo. Kyo’s slot has burned the cred Toog built.

This post implies you believe just one is scum, does it not? And for someone who believed Dunn is scum, you sure made a point to try and say "Kyo is scummier!" for reasons you have yet to present.

ninja-
Cocky grandstanding is my shtick, nice try though!

[Towelie]

i'm clearly not drunk enough

-b

[Towelie]

i am getting the impression that me directly interacting with you will not be helpful is what i'm trying to say based on your demeanor/tone toward me atm. You've not crossed any lines i just didn't think we'd be here.

-b

[Towelie]

skitter why is the dude who rhymes with you town

[Towelie]

FWIW notty and i don't really agree on the critter read right now but we're working through it

-b

[Towelie]

I for one love that its okay for LLD to make the choice when its someone not named Dunnstral, but when it was Dunnstral you started your Kyo push!

i think critter was objecting to the dunn push because he was townreading him
and now has some ~mysterious reason~ for scumreading kyo. idk what it is or why but there seems to be something underlying this push that he's not articulating

i don't see a contradiction

his posts in the last page say he is scumreading dunn skitter

[Towelie]

i'm not really sure i understand your issues with critter @notty

I dont like the kyo push, nor do I think kyo is scum here in general. I find a bigger contradiction in him being okay to cede control to LLD over MM, who he thinks is town. This is in contrast to how he tried to change things to Kyo, who as of literally posts ago he states being unsure about Dunn's alignment, yet he tried to derail the exact same conftown from Dunn. I don't think that makes sense from a town POV at all.

[Towelie]

His professed scumread of kyo was for doing a catchup wherein she quotes meme posts from the RVS/LLD calling code red a confscum claim phase, something he attributes to his own scum meta without any thoughts of if kyo would play the same, is there a track record of kyo doing the same, or anything else. And instead STILL refuses to share the reasons for the Kyo scumread.

[Towelie]

And I have explained as much as is protown to do so. Talk with your other head. This back and forth is not productive. You are a part of a hydra. Get aligned.

I'm trying to talk to skitter here, any reason you insist on stepping in the middle?

[Towelie]

And I have explained as much as is protown to do so. Talk with your other head. This back and forth is not productive. You are a part of a hydra. Get aligned.

I'm trying to talk to skitter here, any reason you insist on stepping in the middle?

Yeah, you’re actively misrepresenting my posts when you are. Your other head and you clearly disagree with me and your head is spouting absolute crap in thread. If it was “just talking” or a valid reason to scumread me I wouldn’t have a problem.

All you've done is try to discredit my posts since I've shown up tonight, so you'll excuse me if I don't take your word for it. I am talking to bork about it. I do know what he thinks, but I'm allowed to pursue my own thoughts.

[Towelie]

just because i don't agree doesn't mean he can't generate more discussion. i don't think we're shitting up the thread w/ non-content, just trying to converge and this is probably how that has to happen.

-b

[Towelie]

I wonder if critter can make a single non-discrediting post.

ninja-
Literally I have been trying to talk to skitter and critter just seems to want to step in the lines of questioning like it's going out of style

[Towelie]

we're talking on discord, but like we're not going to present a unified front on everything before we post in thread, and i feel like we're kind of at an impasse atm wrt your slot, he knows what i think, but he's trying to address your slot via interaction whereas i am not

-b

[Towelie]

Let's pretend you're town. In choosing to speak up here you denied the chance for VFT to reply to me (however she so chose) which would have helped you better read her. Who knows, she might have brought up your points! Instead, you have repeatedly stepped in the middle of an interaction I wanted her opinion on and have tried to muddy the waters as much as possible, whilst repeatedly throwing shade on my head in particular- before I even "misrepped" you- (read: your comments about me not "liking" your posts). Nothing I had said prior to that was a misrep. But the discredits started first.

Miss me with that shit.

Ninja-
Okay, skitter.

[Towelie]

kinda feel like we're wading through mud and hoping things magically become clear on later days

skitter, what about 997 made you confident (?) critter was town?

-b

[Towelie]

eh you may have just answered me

-b

[Towelie]

like i can't explain the kyo read or why he wants the day to end, but givent hose givens, his play seems kinda fine to me and i don't take much issue with it

not sure if i explained that as well i can but i'm not sure how to articulate the thought exactly

I'll put a pin in it for now, but I'm still pretty solidly in the kyo-town corner (and likely will be until something is actually explained!)

I'm meh about an MM vote. Its not the worst vote in the world, no. Not confident it flips scum either. I don't know why either alignment of MM sticks on the gamma push so long?

[Towelie]

his play seems kinda fine to me and i don't take much issue with it

i mean "kinda fine" [excepting some things that don't seem trivial that you said you don't understand reasons for] i feel like doesn't result in w/ 999

-b

[Towelie]

I kinda wanna vote Critter here because his approach feels vaguely scummy rn

Is scummy scum? Sometimes town is deliberately scummy. My approach is a bit weird yes.

This feels like a weird card for you to pull atp

i'm still pulling notty off the ceiling from 1051 lol

-b

[Towelie]

I think notty's issue is that he thinks you're being somewhat, well, i don't want to put the words in his mouth, but "off" (and kind of in your own words there) but the whole time have trying to make him seem unreasonable

-b

[Towelie]

Don't think critter's the play today.

we're at like 60% of a sync =/. mostly i don't know what i'm doing.

VOTE: m&m

-b

[Towelie]

you sure sound like you're complaining

but i wanted to compromise and i said earlier if i didn't know what to do i was probably going to sheep LLD today. Noddy doesn't object to this and my main issue w/ it is "i don't get what the fuck they're doing" which i acknowledge isn't very good of a reason. Also don't think too many more things are going to happen organically atm.

-b

[Towelie]

and sorry if i sound annoyed but if you want to use ELO as a crutch to hold me to a high standard then i am absolutely going to use tenet as a "if you really want to read me in another setting that i feel is similar, you've got ample subject matter"

-b

[Towelie]

that post was him, yes

-b

[Towelie]

ELO

ebwop: perpetual MELO

-b

[Towelie]

i have no idea what you're trying to say

-b

[Towelie]

and i'm not sure why i should be using tenet as a baseline and not elo

they're both towngames; why would you not look at both lol

-b

you've been arguing with me basically since i started posting that you dont' think m&m is scummy so i don't get your vote or what changed

I don't think a ton has changed other lld has moved there (which i straight up said contributed) and my inability to solve particularly well today. I didn't have some kind of grand revelation.

I was a bit sloppy in that i kinda combined my thoughts on M&M as a slot as well as your stance on them in kind of a single blurb which i will readily admit to not having a ton of cohesion in, but i'm still getting my bearings on that slot re: their motivation to claim "jester cop" or whatever the fuck and tussle w/ gamma, and at the same time trying to distill your initial reasons for scumreading the slot considering a lot of the stuff you seemed to say at the time reflected a lack of understanding rather than something you think exhibits scum motivation.

-b

[Towelie]

VOTE: kyouko
What even is this rn

gamma, what exactly are you seeing here?

-b

[Towelie]

I think bears also flip red,

but I think Critter can escape certain doom easier than they can, so long as we remember it's Pooky and Noraa we're dealing with. Not run-of-the-mill scum.

don't really like this considering M&M had i think 3 votes at this point when you hopped on critter as (i believe) the first vote, unless you have a difference in confidence levels here, which i don't get from this post. I'm not sure what the underlined part means, esp since the qualifier "M&M are capable scum players" doesn't seem to support the assertion you're making that critter has an easier time potentially wiggling out of this

-b

[Towelie]

@bork does notsci have an opinion on me? I thought he had a decent rate of reading me in the past few games

Paraphrasing: "not impressed at this time but i know she's been sick"; we know you were AWOL sitewide during that time too.

-b

[Towelie]

I thought he had a decent rate of reading me in the past few games

I thought the same about skitter and me but here we are in whatever's going on w/ her right now

-b

[Towelie]

If there are any questions you are dying to ask or whatever just @us.

do you, in fact, have my back?

just really not used to seeing an utter nothingburger from you d1

367 gave me early hope since it seemed like you might be engaged or at least reading -- how did you get those reads and have they changed since then?

-b

[Towelie]

@lillith- acknowledging I saw you post but Bork summed up my thoughts so far. I’m giving you space to do some things so I can keep developing the read.

-notty

[Towelie]

this guarantees that someone who lives longer than me will poke at the soft later and not let it go unnoticed.

i mean, it was laid on pretty obviously i'm guessing to most people, and was the main point of contention between notscience and myself (at least as a soft a la stuff like 1062; I didn't get 'investigative' from that) but I don't think it suffices as a reason to push you and i was trying to ask about the latter while trying not to call attention to the former although at this point I think that's moot

-b

[Towelie]

Nobody's asking you to confirm or deny anything, but it's an elephant and I don't think not acknowledging is presence at this point is really going to change anything.

-b

[Towelie]

yes, but i wanted to know if you had and was prepared to drop it if so (hence 1052) but 1053 wasn't what i expected

-b

[Towelie]

I'm willing to kill Dunn today, Dunn hasn't left my scum radar

i don't feel like there's a chance of dunn/MM being S/S and neither is being super helpful atm

can somebody who's meta-reading dunn please please like go through a game they personally are using as a barometer for dunn's play and quote stuff that's similar or dissimilar to what they're seeing here and what they think that means about alignment (or point me to where you did that in this game)?

I've never seen so much polarization on a meta read with like not even the slightest attempt at reconciliation

I'm looking at isekai right now (only dunn-scum game i was in w/ him was a long long time ago) and probably will look at bloodstained too; notty having been in both should help

-b

[Towelie]

viewtopic.php?p=12975621#p12975621

dunn was indeed carrying this toog meta legitimately from game to game, although he fallaciously uses it to scumread toog there (and even kind of hedges it with "he might be changing it up")

i think the manner in which he sorts here ("slightly +town for him") is probably an ok reaction to have in retrospect even if i didn't find it convincing in the moment, but moreover i just think the opener in the other game on toogeloo is explicitly bad whereas here i just think it's kinda mundane - I don't get the same weasel-y feeling i get from the other game

-b

[Towelie]

will look more after dinner; still really surprised people are willing to come out so confident on that slot after he blew by basically everyone (ssbm caught by accident) in isekai and i know some of the players here were in that game

-b

[Towelie]

1) does lillith think I should be townreading her?

2) that was the point of our contention (the softs). Bork said leave it be, and I’m of the opinion that nothing stops scum from softing?

-notty

[Towelie]

Kyos most likely town and the push on her is boring at best

[Towelie]

I thought he had a decent rate of reading me in the past few games

I thought the same about skitter and me but here we are in whatever's going on w/ her right now

-b

do u expect me to be townreading u here?

~ skitter

i feel like i'm substantially within my townrange at this point; i don't know what your angle is - i expressed a gut townread on you and you completely jumped up my ass to the point where I honestly felt that you were going to negatively react to anything I said.

If you want to meta me, I expect something more intellectually honest than "this doesn't look exactly like your kismet game". It sure as fuck doesn't look like my 2181 game, lol.

If you wanna talk more about stuff this game, I'm not going anywhere.

-b

[Towelie]

Because post-guilty he downshifted right into typical Dunn!scum meta

I don't feel like that's helpful at this particular juncture unfortunately

-b

[Towelie]

why were you going to drop it if i saw it?

because I didn't get why you'd have shifted into "critter town" for the content of that post at face value and it didn't make sense to me, whereas if you did it for that reason it would've made sense to me

i don't feel like this is that complicated

-b

[Towelie]

I liked SS's posts circa 1159 and don't think I'd want to eliminate there today.

-b

[Towelie]

can I ask people to sheep me and let me shoot my shot?

I have been stepping back to let things evolve and people develop reads but now I want to... really take my shot.

yes

-b

[Towelie]

Gamma Emerald
Towelie (hydra of borkjerfkin and notscience)
MUSHSHAGANA
E. M. M. I.
Milk & Mocha (hydra of PookyTheMagicalBear and Noraa)
Venus Fly Trap (hydra of skitter30 and lilith2013)
Dunnstral
Wisdom
Lady Lambdadelta
Something_Smart
Critter
StrangeMatter
Toogeloo

[Towelie]

1) why does scum claim about flavor when it has no effect on the game

2)that quote from kyo is literally just a c/paste of cabds playerlist

Wow, I’m glad I’m not on the crying kyo wagon with this!

[Towelie]

Cringe not crying.

[Towelie]

Waiting on reads Kyo tick tock tick tock

You scum, mush town, gamma town, nora possibly scumclaimed but nobody else notices these things. Wisdom obstinate, need to review him and toog in iso real quick, as his vote sticking in place feels wrong. However it's not likely you and wisdom are both scum so wrong on at least one of those

Dunnstral idk, I've had vibes he was scum at times but he doesnt feel like he did in isekai and I tracked him to the kill completely by accident there, had no idea he may be scum. I was setting up to Watch him later and he happened to be killing that Night

SM feels like limbait so town. Flytrap is POE scum. Gonna check playerlist for the resr as others in game are escaping me.

Interesting the post with actual reads in it doesn’t get quoted while you quote the c/pasted playerlist

[Towelie]

Any you thought that of the two posts 504 was the better choice to quote?

Or the better choice to paint your narrative

[Towelie]

450 is ssbm saying "dunn would have to think mello yello is not a competitor brand in order to think toog softed it and is town" not that she herself thought toog was softing that (and even if she did think that itd have been from before she entered the game)

-b

[Towelie]

And who says town only gets Mountain Dew flavors? It’s on or off brand.

competitor brand = not mountain dew drinks

i seriously dont see how one interprets this any other way

-b

[Towelie]

With that in mind, 415 really is just a cigar

-b

[Towelie]

I dont see how that article disproves what i said

-b

[Towelie]

You cant argue that flavor is important to scum and then patently misrepresent (whether intentionally or not) how flavor works

415 was the first post that got you here. It didnt make sense to me then and doesnt now.

-b

[Towelie]

Notty says he will talk w you about that post later

-b

[Towelie]

Which post?

1006

-b

[Towelie]

@Dunn- I’ll give you a staunch maybe on if I think you’re scum. I think you look worse with a Critter red flip.

[Towelie]

lack of reads

See the part under OMGUS.

OMGUS

Is this a scumtell? Is this not something most players do?

She even says in 501 (the post you didn’t quote to instead post where she c/pasted the OP and then proceed to ask why she left herself at the bottom of the list) that she doesn’t think both you and Wisdom can be scum together despite the push.

flavor hunting

Players should expect a fairly balanced non-swingy game that plays more like a classic normal game from the 2013 era, with mountain dew flavor shamelessly bolted on top of it.

Players should expect a fairly balanced non-swingy game that plays more like a classic normal game from the 2013 era, with mountain dew flavor shamelessly bolted on top of it.

Players should expect a fairly balanced non-swingy game that plays more like a classic normal game from the 2013 era, with mountain dew flavor shamelessly bolted on top of it.

I genuinely don’t understand why I keep having to point this out.

[Towelie]

their interactions with towlie make them look WAY worse

basically where I ended up yesterday despite where i was earlier. I understand skitter being suspicious of the early townread i threw but she went from 0 to whoa on me like she was testing for cracks in the armor rather than trying to form a read, not really taking into account anything i said (or at least not really stating why she didn't like us other than meta after that), and while i don't think their should be a burden of proficiency on her townreading me, i think bringing up meta early and hanging one game over my head despite having a pretty large other body of work to try to work with (IF she wants to use meta, which is not something i demanded she do) as a reason to scumread me here seemed disingenuous to me.

notty is =/ on lilith, he can elaborate if he wants to

VOTE: vft

-b

[Towelie]

i think the feeling i'm going to feel is complicated no matter which way she flips. tenet mood vs melo mood.

-b

[Towelie]

tbh i'm just happy you're here and town and at least on the same page-ish as me

-b[uddying]

@lld

[Towelie]

I don’t know about Lilith but the Skitter head I think is town.

i thought so too early but skitter very much emitted that she had meta on the brain to deal w/ me, and i'm just really not convinced she was actually ever prepared to use that reading method in earnest. I would also like to hear why you think that.

-b

[Towelie]

There’s no reason for her to just suddenly swap her read on me like she did.

she saw a soft, same as me. I don't think that's an AI reaction.

-b

[Towelie]

she also TRed you in 771 which is the earliest mention of you i can find so it's not even a swap

-b

[Towelie]

A scum reaction would be to ignore it or continue to push as if it doesn’t exist.

that's not what we did; notty just thinks you're full of shit.

-b

[Towelie]

I don’t see you as an experienced player being okay with what Notty is doing.

that's nice but it has no basis in reality. i have no problem w/ him trying to get content out of you, esp since my reason for TRing you was something I couldn't ask about. I don't think we'd have moved to you today unless the landscape really changed.

-b

[Towelie]

unless you're trying to tell me that scum have no history of softing PRs

you essentially lowered the value proposition of being wrong, which I acknowledge. you don't get to just be confirmed.

-b

[Towelie]

to.... get a better read

what

-b

[Towelie]

And I bet you wouldn’t move to me unless you got some sucker/scape goat to do it first.

i can just tell this conversation is going to be very productive going forward

-b

[Towelie]

That’s why you sort based on other content

you mean

like he

was doing

fuck dude

-b

[Towelie]

cool good chat

-b

[Towelie]

If you have no intention of voting it won’t help you get a better read though.

Otherwise it’s glorified posting of “look at me I am sorting”. If you’re not willing to vote someone then pressure is useless.

i'm not really willing to move this into a conversation of how to develop reads. i don't see why your philosophy here should have any bearing on my alignment

-b

[Towelie]

No he wasn’t.

heh.

[Towelie]

A scum reaction would be to ignore it or continue to push as if it doesn’t exist.

that's not what we did; notty just thinks you're full of shit.

-b

And I think your slot is scum doing good cop bad cop. I don’t see you as an experienced player being okay with what Notty is doing.

LOOOOOOL
notty’s hydra with fferyllt milks “good cop bad cop” for all it’s worth
That means NOTHING for notty here I think

I’m not even fucking doing it here, multiple people can vouch for that

[Towelie]

i think cabd and prohawk literally had a hydra called that

-b

[Towelie]

Ffery isn't in this game

gamma's talking about kate hydra in last game

-b

[Towelie]

i think gamma would agree

-b

[Towelie]

oh nvm i misread his post

but yeah

-b

[Towelie]

It's very... self-centered? play, which isn't necessarily anti-town

actually contributed to a townread for me for most of the game

-b

[Towelie]

Why’d I bring up something if I didn’t think it was relevant?

ignore me i misread what you put

-b

[Towelie]

and we can go through the whole thing where this is not the approach scum-me takes with bork, if you'd like

i'm listening

-b

[Towelie]

Didn’t I already debunk the kyo case?

Lmao