Mini Normal 2291: Greentexts | Mafia Wins!

[Cephrir]

VOTE: dragoneater70

don't eat dragons, that's mean

[Cephrir]

VOTE: Kowabungah

If I had to choose any slots so far which are +AI for scum then I'd choose this one.

9 and 12 pinged me too, I think that's just paranoia though.

Help me with the +AI thing

On a less speculative note I've observed variations of "hey x, this is a reference to that game where you and I were both Town" are more likely to come from scum at the beginning of the game. I'm not exactly reading into it much yet though it might also matter that herta is IC. On a highly speculative note I imagined that you sounded a little downbeat in your first 2 posts, which makes me think you drew a scum PM. At this point in the game, while you are my first "serious" suspect, it's relatively easy for you to get me to flip my read on you just by performing some scum hunting.

11 pinged me as well and this is a reasonably good effort at explaining why my gut response occurred

Actually I would say FK being scum could also increase the scum equity (but by not as much) because it's potentially a cheap way to create distance between the two. Regardless, will need to see more posts from there. Anyways no one else is posting right now and I'm about to go to work so that's swell.

In any case, I find myself rather neutral on Red as far, as alignment goes. Red feels like he could be scum jumping in early, but he also feels like he can be lazy town who doesn't give a ****, and I'm not sure which it is yet. Red's posts vibe as totally dismissive and not trying yet.

Clone's two posts give vibes like he's trying too hard, by forcing himself to post when he feels he has to post *something*, because he doesn't know what to say.
[/quote]

i think you're reading too much into things

i thought clone actually came off as funny and not concerned tbh

Scum often find it hard to transition into a game, and I find early game awkwardness to have a fair amount of scum AI. (I'm interested to see what Ceph and especially Gera's second posts look like, for example).

*spooky jazz hands*

VOTE: Kow

[Cephrir]

let's try that again

VOTE: Kowabungah

If I had to choose any slots so far which are +AI for scum then I'd choose this one.

9 and 12 pinged me too, I think that's just paranoia though.

Help me with the +AI thing

On a less speculative note I've observed variations of "hey x, this is a reference to that game where you and I were both Town" are more likely to come from scum at the beginning of the game. I'm not exactly reading into it much yet though it might also matter that herta is IC. On a highly speculative note I imagined that you sounded a little downbeat in your first 2 posts, which makes me think you drew a scum PM. At this point in the game, while you are my first "serious" suspect, it's relatively easy for you to get me to flip my read on you just by performing some scum hunting.

11 pinged me as well and this is a reasonably good effort at explaining why my gut response occurred

Actually I would say FK being scum could also increase the scum equity (but by not as much) because it's potentially a cheap way to create distance between the two. Regardless, will need to see more posts from there. Anyways no one else is posting right now and I'm about to go to work so that's swell.

In any case, I find myself rather neutral on Red as far, as alignment goes. Red feels like he could be scum jumping in early, but he also feels like he can be lazy town who doesn't give a ****, and I'm not sure which it is yet. Red's posts vibe as totally dismissive and not trying yet.

Clone's two posts give vibes like he's trying too hard, by forcing himself to post when he feels he has to post *something*, because he doesn't know what to say.

i think you're reading too much into things

i thought clone actually came off as funny and not concerned tbh

Scum often find it hard to transition into a game, and I find early game awkwardness to have a fair amount of scum AI. (I'm interested to see what Ceph and especially Gera's second posts look like, for example).

*spooky jazz hands*

VOTE: Kow

[Cephrir]

-crescent's post delves multiple layers deep into a post that's literally just a joke
-frog explicitly says he's not reading that much into it, and i'm not either - just happy with that spot for my vote on page 2, although this reaction certainly doesn't make me feel worse about it

[Cephrir]

-crescent's post delves multiple layers deep into a post that's literally just a joke
-frog explicitly says he's not reading that much into it,

and i'm not either

- just happy with that spot for my vote on page 2, although this reaction certainly doesn't make me feel worse about it

You're not reading that much into it, but enough to put a vote for it? This is too careless to be a town POV.

this is a very silly argument. most players move their vote around based on very little early in the game to get things rolling and i am no different

[Cephrir]

for example, VOTE: Elements

you're experienced enough to know that kowahbunga's point isn't good.

[Cephrir]

I didn't vote because of kow's 48, that came up in my post edit

Alright - why then?

[Cephrir]

@bianco I don't think it's disingenuous, he is new and probably doesn't know that

[Cephrir]

@bianco I don't think it's disingenuous, he is new and probably doesn't know that

I know that I feel your posts are not a town POV. At this stage of the game that will be all I have to play with.

I played mafia off and on starting in 2008. I've played consistently since 2014. There's nothing new about me other than this account or my way of playing.

and you've never seen someone throw a vote around on minimal basis on page 2?????

[Cephrir]

take a look at literally any other game on this website for examples mate

[Cephrir]

okay, post 48 doesn't exist then. roger that

i have explained why the situations were different. you are welcome to ignore that explanation, but i have some pretty hard evidence that what i said is not "100% a scum POV thing to say" in my inbox. hope you learn to operate with a little less certainty in the future

[Cephrir]

@bianco I don't think it's disingenuous, he is new and probably doesn't know that

I know that I feel your posts are not a town POV. At this stage of the game that will be all I have to play with.

I played mafia off and on starting in 2008. I've played consistently since 2014. There's nothing new about me other than this account or my way of playing.

and you've never seen someone throw a vote around on minimal basis on page 2?????

I hate this but think it's town
VOTE: BBT

i would still like and answer to my question

[Cephrir]

=_=

[Cephrir]

RedFF it would be great if you have some follow up to that naked vote because I'm getting major scum pings from you already.

VOTE: geraintm

Side note: After giving it some thought, this post obviously trolling a legitimate inquiry from FK so early actually kinda townpings me. It's something you don't often see scum do, though I don't know the specific player. I would say the scum equity is higher if at least one of Gera or Red are scum.

if you don't think this is a joke then you probably didn't get the joke

[Cephrir]

RedFF it would be great if you have some follow up to that naked vote because I'm getting major scum pings from you already.

VOTE: geraintm

Side note: After giving it some thought, this post obviously trolling a legitimate inquiry from FK so early actually kinda townpings me. It's something you don't often see scum do, though I don't know the specific player. I would say the scum equity is higher if at least one of Gera or Red are scum.

if you don't think this is a joke then you probably didn't get the joke

maybe im just confused as to what you're referring to tbh, you're so deep in layers that i don't even understand what you're talking about in this post and the followup to it x3

[Cephrir]

RedFF it would be great if you have some follow up to that naked vote because I'm getting major scum pings from you already.

VOTE: geraintm

Side note: After giving it some thought, this post obviously trolling a legitimate inquiry from FK so early actually kinda townpings me. It's something you don't often see scum do, though I don't know the specific player. I would say the scum equity is higher if at least one of Gera or Red are scum.

if you don't think this is a joke then you probably didn't get the joke

maybe im just confused as to what you're referring to tbh, you're so deep in layers that i don't even understand what you're talking about in this post and the followup to it x3

This feels very fake. The entire argument is "posting a deflecting joke immediately after being voted for, then peacing out of the game for a long time, is scum AI. I wish to see more posts from him." This is pretty cut and dry.

You seem to be going out of your way to drastically conflate what I'm actually saying with all this nonsense talk about "layers". It feels like a very hard deflection relative to a minimal amount of pressure being put on him.

You got me I was pretending to be confused for some mysterious reason there's no way that could be legit

[Cephrir]

Don't particularly like Ceph's defence of Clone.

Just telling you my read dude

[Cephrir]

@bianco I don't think it's disingenuous, he is new and probably doesn't know that

I know that I feel your posts are not a town POV. At this stage of the game that will be all I have to play with.

I played mafia off and on starting in 2008. I've played consistently since 2014. There's nothing new about me other than this account or my way of playing.

and you've never seen someone throw a vote around on minimal basis on page 2?????

I hate this but think it's town
VOTE: BBT

i would still like and answer to my question

I won't be giving one for I cannot remember

I am getting somewhat lost tbh. What question? If it's the one in the quote then Elenents' answer doesn't parse, so I presume it must be the one in 55?

Correct

[Cephrir]

RedFF it would be great if you have some follow up to that naked vote because I'm getting major scum pings from you already.

VOTE: geraintm

Side note: After giving it some thought, this post obviously trolling a legitimate inquiry from FK so early actually kinda townpings me. It's something you don't often see scum do, though I don't know the specific player. I would say the scum equity is higher if at least one of Gera or Red are scum.

if you don't think this is a joke then you probably didn't get the joke

maybe im just confused as to what you're referring to tbh, you're so deep in layers that i don't even understand what you're talking about in this post and the followup to it x3

This feels very fake. The entire argument is "posting a deflecting joke immediately after being voted for, then peacing out of the game for a long time, is scum AI. I wish to see more posts from him." This is pretty cut and dry.

You seem to be going out of your way to drastically conflate what I'm actually saying with all this nonsense talk about "layers". It feels like a very hard deflection relative to a minimal amount of pressure being put on him.

@ceph, What is "this post" exactly? The post you quoted directly is from yourself, so I presume the Crescent post quoted therein (33)?

if you don't think this is a joke then you probably didn't get the joke

This responds to 33, which does not talk about Clone, and instead talks about Elements' naked vote. Are you saying that vote was an obvious joke?

Or maybe the quoting is messed up in some way?

Correct

If Clone was in any way related to crescent's post I was responding to, then I'm even more confused than I thought

[Cephrir]

Let me try this interaction again, I'm clearly in the weeds.

RedFF it would be great if you have some follow up to that naked vote because I'm getting major scum pings from you already.

VOTE: geraintm

Side note: After giving it some thought, this post obviously trolling a legitimate inquiry from FK so early actually kinda townpings me. It's something you don't often see scum do, though I don't know the specific player. I would say the scum equity is higher if at least one of Gera or Red are scum.

Actually I would say FK being scum could also increase the scum equity (but by not as much) because it's potentially a cheap way to create distance between the two. Regardless, will need to see more posts from there. Anyways no one else is posting right now and I'm about to go to work so that's swell.

Can you explain what these posts mean to me again with quotes? I got lost

[Cephrir]

@ceph, on #91. I don't think 33 is related to clone, however Crescent response to your response was (

The entire argument is "posting a deflecting joke immediately after being voted for, then peacing out of the game for a long time, is scum AI. I wish to see more posts from him." This is pretty cut and dry

) so I'm confused here, there must have been some miscommunication along the way.

Ok I was talking about elements there but I see why my reading is nonsense now

[Cephrir]

let's try that again

VOTE: Kowabungah

If I had to choose any slots so far which are +AI for scum then I'd choose this one.

9 and 12 pinged me too, I think that's just paranoia though.

Help me with the +AI thing

On a less speculative note I've observed variations of "hey x, this is a reference to that game where you and I were both Town" are more likely to come from scum at the beginning of the game. I'm not exactly reading into it much yet though it might also matter that herta is IC. On a highly speculative note I imagined that you sounded a little downbeat in your first 2 posts, which makes me think you drew a scum PM. At this point in the game, while you are my first "serious" suspect, it's relatively easy for you to get me to flip my read on you just by performing some scum hunting.

11 pinged me as well and this is a reasonably good effort at explaining why my gut response occurred

Actually I would say FK being scum could also increase the scum equity (but by not as much) because it's potentially a cheap way to create distance between the two. Regardless, will need to see more posts from there. Anyways no one else is posting right now and I'm about to go to work so that's swell.

In any case, I find myself rather neutral on Red as far, as alignment goes. Red feels like he could be scum jumping in early, but he also feels like he can be lazy town who doesn't give a ****, and I'm not sure which it is yet. Red's posts vibe as totally dismissive and not trying yet.

Clone's two posts give vibes like he's trying too hard, by forcing himself to post when he feels he has to post *something*, because he doesn't know what to say.

i think you're reading too much into things

i thought clone actually came off as funny and not concerned tbh

Scum often find it hard to transition into a game, and I find early game awkwardness to have a fair amount of scum AI. (I'm interested to see what Ceph and especially Gera's second posts look like, for example).

*spooky jazz hands*

VOTE: Kow

This is the only time I thought we were talking about clone. I am dumb

[Cephrir]

Oh I bet bbt thought more of my posts were about clone too

It all makes sense now

[Cephrir]

*bzzt* I am a human. You can tell because a superior machine would not *brrvv, zap* make such a stupid mistake. Beep boop

[Cephrir]

Wait, wait. So, @ceph, in 46 wrt. Crescent, you

wasn't

talking about her read of Clone? That... would necessitate quite a shift in understanding of the game

I was talking about the bits I quoted in 92 but I didn't understand what those bits were talking about

[Cephrir]

What did you think those bits are talking about exactly?

I think I thought they were connecting frogs alignment with elements somehow

[Cephrir]

Can you recognize a remote possibility that I find it protown to suggest that a possibly town aligned player not get too invested in something I don't think is alignment indicative

[Cephrir]

Yeha Bianco, I was scum reading Clone for his entrance and that scum read has not only been maintained, but strengthened.

Is anyone else convinced that Clone is scum yet?

No... Do you want to share why I should be?

[Cephrir]

I'm not loving 129.

Too much certainty for my tastes. Could be play style tho.

[Cephrir]

I'm not loving 129.

Too much certainty for my tastes. Could be play style tho.

Are you disagreeing with the merit of the matter or just the form?

And I am not certain of anything, but I see no reason to muddle my words if I see something fishy

I'm not sure thinking D1 lims are random is +scum, but mostly the form.

[Cephrir]

I'm not loving 129.

Too much certainty for my tastes. Could be play style tho.

I feel like if anyone was acting "too certain", it was Clone in #124. #129 looks more like it's a breakdown of questions and observations. Why do you feel bianco seemed "too certain"?

Feel like the attacks for excessive concern about a vote came on a little strong ("this doesn't stand") altho after sleeping on it I don't care about this as much as I did last night

[Cephrir]

Red, what is your reason for voting Clone?

Gera's vote town vibes me. There's a contradiction I noticed in Clone's behavior that I believe Gera is pointing out.

I don't want to elaborate further without a reason from Red first though.

i'm not reading gera as town right now so i'm annoyed by this post for townreading him based on an assumption of what he meant to say but actually didn't

also kinda wild that you asked only red about the reason for his vote when you could have also asked gera and had whatever thought process you're having confirmed or denied. you know what happens when you assume

[Cephrir]

I believe redFF is most likely town. He's staying down-low but tends to be actively curious and is asking

this description of my play pinged me hard. i haven't been doing jack shit. i have not been "actively curious and is asking"

good point

[Cephrir]

Red, what is your reason for voting Clone?

Gera's vote town vibes me. There's a contradiction I noticed in Clone's behavior that I believe Gera is pointing out.

I don't want to elaborate further without a reason from Red first though.

i'm not reading gera as town right now so i'm annoyed by this post for townreading him based on an assumption of what he meant to say but actually didn't

also kinda wild that you asked only red about the reason for his vote when you could have also asked gera and had whatever thought process you're having confirmed or denied. you know what happens when you assume

It's the specific part of where Gera voted based on that I like. He voted Clone based on his words contradicting his actions.

How do you know?

[Cephrir]

Can you recognize a remote possibility that I find it protown to suggest that a possibly town aligned player not get too invested in something I don't think is alignment indicative

No, sorry, I can't. It's never protown to ignore something or look into something less.

This is a game of information at it's very core. Scum start with more information, town's goal is to surpass the amount of information scum have. It should be up to the individual town person to decide when information is no longer useful. It will forever be scummy to me if anyone says "don't read too much into that".

Not saying you have to agree with me just that you have to recognize this is an opinion I might hold

[Cephrir]

Red, what is your reason for voting Clone?

Gera's vote town vibes me. There's a contradiction I noticed in Clone's behavior that I believe Gera is pointing out.

I don't want to elaborate further without a reason from Red first though.

i'm not reading gera as town right now so i'm annoyed by this post for townreading him based on an assumption of what he meant to say but actually didn't

also kinda wild that you asked only red about the reason for his vote when you could have also asked gera and had whatever thought process you're having confirmed or denied. you know what happens when you assume

It's the specific part of where Gera voted based on that I like. He voted Clone based on his words contradicting his actions.

How do you know?

Because I've played with Gera enough (this guy has been in almost every game I've played on the site), and he isn't great at explaining his votes regardless of his alignment. It's +town EV for him that he pointed out that specific part when he voted instead of reposting the entire thing. By his standards, that's showing genuine thought behind placing a vote.

This is pretty out there to me

Not only are you putting this entire complex thought process in someone's mouth but also acting as though it is a definitive fact he had this exact process

Bizarre stuff. Don't get it.

[Cephrir]

#187 and #188 are about as useless as posts pretending to be content get. It basically just invents a semantical reason to throw shade on the leading vote. I see little similarity between what I've seen of him this game and the game you linked to earlier.

I assume you mean post #186 and #187.

Post #186 was just calling you out on your false accusation about me instantly calling BBT scum; when I was targetting you and not them.

Post #187 does not in anyway throw shade on a vote.

Clone, where do you feel like Frog was setting up to vote you?

His questioning my experience on Mafia and trying to get an idea of my meta plays seem a bit shady. Feels like a false attempt to start an analysis. From his perspective, it seems inevitable that I will get voted. He leads into a minor accusation (as hes done already), which would then progress as I get pushed.

Not necessarily agreeing about frogsterking but that feels like a real thought process

[Cephrir]

Oh and to further the point about #177 and #178, perspective slips don't really exist when it comes to nouns and pronouns. I once saw a town throw a game at lylo because someone accidentally referred to the scum team as "we" and was voted off strictly for that.

Couldn't care less that there's four interchangeable terms for not-town and he decided to use the one that people generally haven't been using this game so far.

It actually kind of bugs me a bit that FK didn't call this out because I believe he's a player that should know how meaningless the argument was.

It just pings me. Cool with your input on it and happy if it doesn't ping others. Just sticks out to me because subconscious slips are a thing. They've happened before, they'll happen again. Just because you can mention one game where it was wrong to follow this logic, doesn't mean all games and situations will always be just like that.

Your last bit means more to me than your opinion on my opinions though. You thinking Frog is off for not calling out something you think he should. Do you think Frog is trying to buddy me then?

FYI since this is a Normal game it's almost 100% guaranteed the scum are called mafia

[Cephrir]

It amounts to little more than a glorified gut feeling. I feel like the vote came from the right place and it town vibes me.

Quick question Elements: If you haven't caught up yet, why jump on the leading vote without a reason?

Pretty big reversal from what you were saying before but ok

[Cephrir]

I think frogsterking is town

[Cephrir]

@

Crescent

Okay. I have some concrete thoughts on what you said about Kowah.

Kowah takes the initiative against Cephrir in the 4 post exchange which is important IMO. That means that Kowah wasn't forced into the 1v1 and chose to create it of their own volition. Cephrir was dissing you (Crescent) by saying that you are reading too much into things; in other words the negative post which caused Kowah to FoS Cephrir

wasn't

addressed to him, it was addressed to

you

. I think it's obvious that Kowah has no agenda to pocket you (right?? idk) so now already you have to ask yourself whether the motivations of the hypothetical scum!Kowah you are seeing can even hold up in practice, as if you aren't going to defend Kowah later, what does Kowah have to gain in interjecting on your behalf?

Overall, Kowahbunga isn't being reactive below, they are being proactive because Cephrir had not targeted Kowahbunga at all up to this point AFAIK:

i think you're reading too much into things

This is a scum mindset.

VOTE: Cephir

Frog's issues with my post could also be deemed "reading too much into things" but you agree enough with him to vote me for the same reason. Yet you want to tell someone else they're reading too much into things? This is made even more interesting that you find it okay to agree with Frog's reach but don't like someone that you claim is reaching, reaching against Frog.

-crescent's post delves multiple layers deep into a post that's literally just a joke
-frog explicitly says he's not reading that much into it,

and i'm not either

- just happy with that spot for my vote on page 2, although this reaction certainly doesn't make me feel worse about it

You're not reading that much into it, but enough to put a vote for it? This is too careless to be a town POV.

@bianco I don't think it's disingenuous, he is new and probably doesn't know that

I know that I feel your posts are not a town POV. At this stage of the game that will be all I have to play with.

I played mafia off and on starting in 2008. I've played consistently since 2014. There's nothing new about me other than this account or my way of playing.

@bianco I don't think it's disingenuous, he is new and probably doesn't know that

I know that I feel your posts are not a town POV. At this stage of the game that will be all I have to play with.

I played mafia off and on starting in 2008. I've played consistently since 2014. There's nothing new about me other than this account or my way of playing.

and you've never seen someone throw a vote around on minimal basis on page 2?????

My issue is not with the vote being minimal or not. My issue is that you used the same reason to vote for me as you used to discredit someone else's opinion.

You told that someone they're "reading too much into something" which is 100% a scum POV thing to say because any one that is town here should be reading everything with a fine tooth comb. Whether it was on page 2 or 200 doesn't matter.

Yeah I've seen scum write similar things too, everything Kow writes makes me paranoid...really paranoid...I don't scum that though I guess because it's almost always Town which is making me feel really paranoid rather than scum.

There are a few moments which break from the tradition of where a hypothetical scum!Kow would normally take things, and those moments make me optimistic about Kowah's alignment:

"There's nothing new about me other than this account

or my way of playing

."

I think that not all scum players include the bolded here and my feeling is that most scum players don't want to throw away the newbie card when handed to them in the first place. I feel like Kowah is asking for trouble a little bit in a way I don't think they do as scum.

I hate to break it to you but most of this post is based on a faulty premise -- I non-RVS voted Kow in 43

[Cephrir]

I believe Crescent should have voted me by now, the excessive analyzation and a delay to vote comes off as

Mafia

. Their posts tend to indicate that they know I'm not actually

Mafia

(as they are

Mafia

)

Something like this always pings me a bit. Because I know we're playing a game on "mafia" scum - and generally the opposing team to town is "mafia" but Mod never mentioned "mafia" in their opening posts. They referred to the opposing faction as "scum".

The first person to mention "mafia" this game? Well that was me, but in reference to the name of the game.

Others have also mentioned "mafia" in reference to the game.

Clone though, they have actually used the term "mafia" like there are mafia in the game. Likelihood of that being the case? I assume pretty good. But this is something that sticks out to me.

This is indeed not an appealing argument at all, however I think it migth have been in good faith, it's true scum are almost always called Mafia in Normals but also Kow may not entirely know the normal guidelines, as demonstrated here:

It shows 3 people on Clone but Clone having only two votes, but I believe it is correct otherwise.

Well would probably be worth a discussion if one of those three can't have their vote counted or something.

In fact, idk if a scum!Kow would even invent such a '''slip''' in the first place, I don't really think a scum would see that word and think it's pingy enough to fruitfully latch onto it.
UNVOTE:
@Kow, do you agree with Crescent reading of clone's opening? In all cases, if your take wrt. the slip is genuine, you should be eyeng Clone, which would tie to that.

Let's look for a sec at FK. He burrowed Kow in his towncore, and then quickly dropped them from it as soon as 43 was pointed out; now, this would be somewhat of a hat-trick for scum!FK in a world were Kow is town, as it would actually end up blurring Kow's cred further while not appearing to be shady. I trust FK to be good at noticing stuff, so I can see the fact he put forth a towncase that would stop working after noticing 43 to be a deliberate trap, especially since the "proactive" post from Kow was 45, near on the same page

Even if frogsterking is scum I would bet a large sum of money that he truly forgot about 43. Just don't think anyone makes that post knowing it's wrong ever

[Cephrir]

Hopefully I'll be able to catch-up tomorrow evening
VOTE: clone

This post is bad.

100% found scum

It shows 3 people on Clone but Clone having only two votes, but I believe it is correct otherwise.

Well would probably be worth a discussion if one of those three can't have their vote counted or something.

This is definitely the most forced day 1 post I have ever seen.
100% sure I have found a player who is trying you hard.

100%

Congrats on 100% finding two scum... So why is your vote on neither of them?

Combine this with letting Crescent's posts putting words in your mouth without comment... I'm in utter disbelief you don't have SOMETHING to say about that... And it's not adding up for me

VOTE: geraintm

[Cephrir]

my mafia brain is not functioning right now

Mafia brain?

Not town brain?

110% found scum here

You are voting for clone.

[Cephrir]

Pap

[Cephrir]

ok fine i can see that one

[Cephrir]

maybe i should try being deliberately unhelpful it seems to be in vogue

[Cephrir]

Oh and to further the point about #177 and #178, perspective slips don't really exist when it comes to nouns and pronouns. I once saw a town throw a game at lylo because someone accidentally referred to the scum team as "we" and was voted off strictly for that.

Couldn't care less that there's four interchangeable terms for not-town and he decided to use the one that people generally haven't been using this game so far.

It actually kind of bugs me a bit that FK didn't call this out because I believe he's a player that should know how meaningless the argument was.

It just pings me. Cool with your input on it and happy if it doesn't ping others. Just sticks out to me because subconscious slips are a thing. They've happened before, they'll happen again. Just because you can mention one game where it was wrong to follow this logic, doesn't mean all games and situations will always be just like that.

Your last bit means more to me than your opinion on my opinions though. You thinking Frog is off for not calling out something you think he should. Do you think Frog is trying to buddy me then?

FYI since this is a Normal game it's almost 100% guaranteed the scum are called mafia

Where I normally play is a sports forum that has a group of about 20 people that rotate in and out and a few who like to mod and they just do crazy stuff. So I'm a bit more programmed to notice something like what the scum team is called or a vote not being counted. I didn't realize the rules were that strict and I always assumed that faction names are just flavour and scum could be called anything the mod wants them to be.

The reason I felt that way is that the mod specifically says "scum" in their opening post. Why wouldn't the mod say "mafia" if it's always mafia in Normal games?

Scum is more of a slang term we use for any non town faction

[Cephrir]

Gera was at zero 12 hours ago and now he's at -2.

I think it can be a sign of Town wagoning correctly

Wagons building this fast always concern me and people playing loose in general is the biggest reason I don't vote early. Like in 2277 I thought Galron was scum but his wagon was so rushed that I spent a good chunk of the day questioning it instead of him

I get why people get concerned about wagon speed but I just don't think it's a real thing as far as having any correlation with the outcome

[Cephrir]

Hopefully I'll be able to catch-up tomorrow evening
VOTE: clone

This post is bad.

100% found scum

It shows 3 people on Clone but Clone having only two votes, but I believe it is correct otherwise.

Well would probably be worth a discussion if one of those three can't have their vote counted or something.

This is definitely the most forced day 1 post I have ever seen.
100% sure I have found a player who is trying you hard.

100%

Congrats on 100% finding two scum... So why is your vote on neither of them?

Combine this with letting Crescent's posts putting words in your mouth without comment... I'm in utter disbelief you don't have SOMETHING to say about that... And it's not adding up for me

VOTE: geraintm

I think I was giving too much credit to a Mod, really trying to take the heat off Kow are we.

Great job leading the way of the mis-elim

*Slow clap*

This scum pool is ever growing it seems.

3 scum in a mini right?

Pre Edit: Howdy Mara. I also had Elements as town, or at least null(not scum at least), and red as well(I cringed reading Frogs case on red early in the Day lol). I also had Ceph town in an initial skim through, but looking at this start of the mis-elim wagon, coupled with my feelings about Kow, definitely making me think. I can buy BBT as scum for the reason I mentioned earlier.

Admittedly I am making associative reads, but I just felt most strongly about Kow with my initial skim, especially the later in the Day posts. Crescent also seemed to be so aware of how they came across, like scared to ruffle feathers.

i will own being a leader on that wagon and being wrong. why does that make me suspicious though?

what i am not interested in accepting is that i did so to get heat off of Kow. I think trying to partner me with him after our exchanged on the first few pages is a pretty significant reach.

[Cephrir]

First order of major business, we are eliminating between Kowhabunga (sp?) And Crescent toDay right?

????

[Cephrir]

obviously that's not what it's for

why do you think everyone is on the same page as your reads despite a uh total lack of anyone else visibly interested in a kow or crescent lim that i can see

id say im lightly leaning town on both of those players, yes

[Cephrir]

assuming? you're the one who said "we're eliminating kow of crescent today right?"
i am pointing out that that was a strange thing to say, i don't think it's reflected in the game state at all

[Cephrir]

whoa i think those goalposts just got up and walked away on their own. neato

shake whatever you want my dude i just didn't like that post

[Cephrir]

i mean i think you reframed the narrative a bit in 350 because "I read through D1 and imo I felt, especially after the flip, that Kow and Crescent seemed the most scummy to me." is a different statement than the one i took issue with

you are welcome to dislike those things. tbh i'd probably vote the same way again if i saw a plyer playing that way, i think my points usually would catch scum and it was an unlucky outcome this time so i can't really feel that bad about it

[Cephrir]

it feels like having redFF as my strongest townread shouldn't be allowed and yet that is what i feel in my soul

[Cephrir]

it feels like having redFF as my strongest townread shouldn't be allowed and yet that is what i feel in my soul

I mean, Herta should be your strongest town read amirite.

Clone, you dropped a vote on crescent, care to add to the discourse?

thats not a read its a fact

[Cephrir]

it feels like having redFF as my strongest townread shouldn't be allowed and yet that is what i feel in my soul

I mean, Herta should be your strongest town read amirite.

Clone, you dropped a vote on crescent, care to add to the discourse?

thats not a read its a fact

I am sensing that you don't understand sarcasm too well.

perhaps you're just not very good at it

[Cephrir]

I could go for Clone.

Ceph makes me feel itchy though.

I didn't know the mafia were in the poison ivy business

[Cephrir]

Drew why do you think I was town leader or trying to be? I don't really find it in my nature to be a leader and don't think I posted with that kind of intent either. I mean, I hammered Geraint. That's not exactly leading?

Your entry to the game seems very "I'm here to lead" so are you scum reading yourself for that?

No one else wants to bring it up but Herta is still alive. Not suggesting they might not be town or anything. But seems like a decent conversation to have with everyone today. Why didn't scum NK the confirmed townie?

Not voting (4): nepenthe, JacksonVirgo, Herta, Crescent

What if Herta wasn't NK because all the scum somehow weren't on the wagon and they didn't want to bring attention to it? Even though Herta is obviously town, maybe they just felt like it would be too noticeable. Instead the killed someone on the middle of the wagon for another town player. So if scum were on the geraint wagon, I don't feel like they would want town flips from the wagon. Let's make this the conversation now. I want everyone's opinion.

I can think of a few reasons:
-scum were afraid of a doctor
-hunting a scarier power role
-scum were more worried about bianco catching them for some reason; plausible since Herta is like fully afk

[Cephrir]

[trauma response]

[Cephrir]

i guess what im most looking at with crescent are the bit where she put words in gera's mouth, though that hits different with his town flip i guess, and the interaction i had with her near eod where she just kinda completely folded. i am currently thinking that scum are more careful and interested in managing their optics than those interactions felt, but i could be wrong

[Cephrir]

it's a possibility

[Cephrir]

Mostly. Kinda sad when I ISOed the previous person in my slot the word count was less then 200 words. I'd vote them if I was here for that shenaniganry. Luckily I know I'm town so I won't do that.

It's weird entering a game later for me, so I hope I don't screw this up. You seem null/town rn Drew from what I read so I'll take any reads from you into consideration

Why did you iso your predecessor?

[Cephrir]

Mostly. Kinda sad when I ISOed the previous person in my slot the word count was less then 200 words. I'd vote them if I was here for that shenaniganry. Luckily I know I'm town so I won't do that.

It's weird entering a game later for me, so I hope I don't screw this up. You seem null/town rn Drew from what I read so I'll take any reads from you into consideration

I was null on Enchant(your slot), but that is usual for me at this point in the game.

Was leaning town on Red, and was hard reading Kow for scum. But my reads on both of them are wavering, so any help there is a plus.

I feel like Crescent could be noob scum, they should be due for a prod I believe, but need to hear from them.

And I keep going back and forth on Cephir, I never played with them but they seem timid and afraid to shake things up too much.

Literally where on earth do you get timid from my iso lol

[Cephrir]

Hopefully I'll be able to catch-up tomorrow evening
VOTE: clone

This post is bad.

100% found scum

It shows 3 people on Clone but Clone having only two votes, but I believe it is correct otherwise.

Well would probably be worth a discussion if one of those three can't have their vote counted or something.

This is definitely the most forced day 1 post I have ever seen.
100% sure I have found a player who is trying you hard.

100%

Congrats on 100% finding two scum... So why is your vote on neither of them?

Combine this with letting Crescent's posts putting words in your mouth without comment... I'm in utter disbelief you don't have SOMETHING to say about that... And it's not adding up for me

VOTE: geraintm

I think I was giving too much credit to a Mod, really trying to take the heat off Kow are we.

Great job leading the way of the mis-elim

*Slow clap*

This scum pool is ever growing it seems.

3 scum in a mini right?

Pre Edit: Howdy Mara. I also had Elements as town, or at least null(not scum at least), and red as well(I cringed reading Frogs case on red early in the Day lol). I also had Ceph town in an initial skim through, but looking at this start of the mis-elim wagon, coupled with my feelings about Kow, definitely making me think. I can buy BBT as scum for the reason I mentioned earlier.

Admittedly I am making associative reads, but I just felt most strongly about Kow with my initial skim, especially the later in the Day posts. Crescent also seemed to be so aware of how they came across, like scared to ruffle feathers.

i will own being a leader on that wagon and being wrong

. why does that make me suspicious though?

what i am not interested in accepting is that i did so to get heat off of Kow. I think trying to partner me with him after our exchanged on the first few pages is a pretty significant reach.

i mean i think you reframed the narrative a bit in 350 because "I read through D1 and imo I felt, especially after the flip, that Kow and Crescent seemed the most scummy to me." is a different statement than the one i took issue with

you are welcome to dislike those things

. tbh i'd probably vote the same way again if i saw a plyer playing that way, i think my points usually would catch scum and it was an unlucky outcome this time so i can't really feel that bad about it

it feels like having redFF as my strongest townread shouldn't be allowed and yet that is what i feel in my soul

i guess what im most looking at with crescent are the bit where she put words in gera's mouth, though that hits different with his town flip i guess, and the interaction i had with her near eod where she just kinda completely folded. i am currently thinking that scum are more careful and interested in managing their optics than those interactions felt,

but i could be wrong

Every take you have has a bit of afraid to just make a full stand and try to say that 'hey, I might not be right here'. Very easy to to blow off any accountability that way.

So yes, you may not be timid in play style, but in substance.

"I will own being a leader on that wagon" is timid and not taking accountability... ok

2nd post is me saying I'm sticking to my guns despite disagreement and that's timid... Ok

Yeah I admit I could be wrong a lot that's my personality... And, I've been willing to make pushes and put myself out there plenty

[Cephrir]

Mostly. Kinda sad when I ISOed the previous person in my slot the word count was less then 200 words. I'd vote them if I was here for that shenaniganry. Luckily I know I'm town so I won't do that.

It's weird entering a game later for me,

so I hope I don't screw this up

. You seem null/town rn Drew from what I read so I'll take any reads from you into consideration

I find this phrasing to be odd. I haven't voted today yet, and this seems like a nice place to start.

VOTE: elsa

How did you feel about elements?

Cephir, any town player 'could be wrong', that is what sucks about being the uninformed majority.

You are making sure it is known that you 'could be wrong'.

And even now when I press you a bit on it, you are passing it off as 'that's how I roll bro, deal with it'.

Subtle wording choices are many times a sign of someone who doesn't want to be held accountable.

I am an honest player, I don't project confidence I don't have. Get used to it

Most of the posts you cited as timid were not timid, and you stated I don't want to be held accountable while quoting a post where I literally was taking responsibility for my error

The problem here is with your reading comprehension

[Cephrir]

VOTE: Elsa

Using your predecessor is scummy

[Cephrir]

Using*

[Cephrir]

Isoing fuck you autocorrect

[Cephrir]

My defense was a lot better than petty insults you're just focusing on that one line because the rest of it is correct lol

I don't think you get to criticize me for ad hon and use it yourself in the same post

How the fuck else do you own up I'm not gonna say elim me so ???

[Cephrir]

But you may be a problem to be solved for another day.

Timid

[Cephrir]

I guess there's no way you could find out whether I always play like that yep

I'm incredibly self aware... you just finished criticizing me for it 13 seconds ago

My townread on red is not related to a vote

[Cephrir]

I'm fucking hilarious glad u noticed

I just decided to iso red at that moment and noticed that he seems very relaxed and isn't playing to perceptions. Tone basically

[Cephrir]

VOTE: Elsa

Using (ISOing) your predecessor is scummy

...?

That's horrible reasoning. When I ISOed Element and saw the ISO with 5 posts prod dodging with 'pap' of course I'm calling it out. I was making a statement I'm going to actually try and solve. What person doesn't ISO the previous person who owned the slot?

Calling it out is kinda self conscious and I feel checking is scummy because scum need to know if their predecessor claimed anything/etc and town doesn't. It's kind of a famous tell

[Cephrir]

Although I still find Elsa's posts scumtastic right now including the emotional response, she does have a point that we're letting quite a few players get away with lurking right now

[Cephrir]

I am still here

Plenty has happened since your last post. Who is scum?

[Cephrir]

I am still here

Plenty has happened since your last post. Who is scum?

hungover, get back to you tomorrow.

Anti prod

Ok I'm over this

VOTE: Clone

[Cephrir]

Furtiveglance is town. Thanks for making that easy

[Cephrir]

No, but that didn't look like the scum game I just played with him at all

[Cephrir]

No, but that didn't look like the scum game I just played with him at all

So you're just going to use that previous game to read them in this game?

Not just that but it's a significant factor

Since I was his partner in that game I feel it gave me some real insight to how he approaches the alignment

[Cephrir]

No, but that didn't look like the scum game I just played with him at all

Let's also hope he isn't a PR lol (he will get it)

Also, I can't avoid Furt, I think he is stalking me.

Kow, I don't really understand your push on Furt here.

Well to be honest, I think they're lying about the reads they have. Because that looks exactly like an order of town to scum and the bottom one would obviously be their most scumread player. But they ignored voting either of the bottom two, then just quoted a VC and put a vote on Marashu for what I also believe to be a bit of a BS reason. Nothing there makes sense that a town player would choose to join a wagon than create one. I would have had an easier time believing someone that they're list wasn't in any order if it wasn't for the fact they needed to be sure to remind us who the IC was at the very top, and the fact they needed to color code it all the way down.

You mean to tell me this person who went through the trouble of formatting they're post also magically didn't have enough attention to detail to list their scum reads from most town to most scum?

My opinion right now is that Red is scum for the reasons I'm mentioning. I've been scum reading them since they made those two posts and was just waiting to see what other information I could get and this whole thing by Furt has given me something to chase. I think Furt is scum and tossed their scum read on Red to distance, then joined Klick on Marashu to finish their buddying of Klick who they had at the top (although being at the top apparently means nothing, right?) of their town reads.

The other thing I didn't like about Furt was asking out loud if we wanted town reads. Why does anyone with a Town POV think "let me see how much information the other town people actually want from me.." like town POV should always be "Let me tell you everything I think and know.

If kow is scum this game I'll eat my shoes

[Cephrir]

Unless you can see viable partners for him, I don't see as much relevance there right now? If he's your top scumread at least see if you can find his partners too. Perhaps you think Drew is hard defending it with weak excuses?

Burden of proof usually relies on the accuser, you know. If you find the entire team and give a decent reason why you think it's them that'll help. Even something like scumone/scumtwo/lurker would help you out there.

I've never disagreed with a post this much in my entire life

Everyone is currently a viable partner for everyone and you definitely do not have to solve the entire game to be allowed to scumhunt

Using this opportunity to suggest Drew as a partner is so weird

I'm going back this is such scum VOTE: Elsa

[Cephrir]

Bussing exists

[Cephrir]

I was responding to "Already I can tell there are just some people/slots that aren't scum together."

Obviously I'm not saying our interaction is bussing but other players could reasonably think it is I guess

[Cephrir]

Ok Ceph is back to protecting Kow, noted.

Kow must really have that super powerful scum role.

Doctor Drew has never heard of a townread, noted.

Clone uh you ok buddy

[Cephrir]

What potential danger what protection you can't just make things up lol

I don't need to do this again

[Cephrir]

What potential danger what protection you can't just make things up lol

I don't need to do this again

You tend to get active when Kow is active.

............I post when there are posts to respond to..........

[Cephrir]

And at the risk of sounding like you, Elsa has a style that is ripe for mis-elim.

....in what way does that sound like me..............

[Cephrir]

I'm leaving the next bait. I can do this. I'm a strong independent raccoon who can handle a little slander

[Cephrir]

Prod dodge. Baffled by the fact that Elsa jay isn't dead yet. Carry on with whatever you're doing I guess

[Cephrir]

Stronger players have tried in the past. Usually it only happens when I'm off my game or when I have a guilty on me.

Tunnelling me won't help town either friend.

Cool scumclaim??? I don't get it

[Cephrir]

Nice preemptive victim complex

[Cephrir]

We've come a long way from the emotional flailing and fear in such a short time

[Cephrir]

Cool congrats on the mislim

[Cephrir]

I am strongly townreading red and I think you are scum and no one but me is objecting so I have concluded that it is probably a mislim

[Cephrir]

Else is scum, no?

yes - come to the party if you're not here already

[Cephrir]

and if the IC makes a vote that isn't terrible maybe i'll consider listening to them

[Cephrir]

Was Crescent really scummy? I never read my predecessor's posts.

Locktown hehe

[Cephrir]

Right, this game ended so I can start tryharding slightly more in this game.

Hot take: the Elsa Jay wagon is garbage. I very heavily doubt that Elements was scum in this game.

tell me more?

[Cephrir]

hmm

okay, that doesn't completely alleviate my concerns but it helps, thanks

[Cephrir]

I think if you (marashu) earnestly want something that's not Elsa/Clone/red to happen you ought to be doing a heck of a lot more to make that possible. at the moment your actions are not going to result in a shift. maybe Kow's post got in my head, but I have to question whether you actually want anything to change or just to look pretty on the sidelines.

[Cephrir]

Not listening to cephrir is so fun

[Cephrir]

"maybe I forgot" not even trying atp

[Cephrir]

first true thing you've posted

[Cephrir]

I mean I was truthful in saying I just woke up and didn't reread the pagetop until it was mentioned. But if it's true, clearly Clone didn't do a good enough job of being good to deserve leniency. A lapse in judgement is a thing.

That's why keeping people 2 votes from death is better. Makes accidents like this not happen.

[Cephrir]

VT

Klick

[Cephrir]

Given the vig I think claiming was correct

[Cephrir]

I'd really appreciate it if everyone could give this thread a read.

Tl;dr: we have 5 town left and it is very very unlikely that we're all going to unanimously agree on a scum to vote today if left to our own devices. With Doctor Drew being conftown, we massively benefit from letting him come to a final decision on today's elimination. We can discuss and form and share opinions all we like, but I think everyone following Drew's vote gives us much more realistic chances of voting scum today than voting by majority.

PEdit: No Lim is the correct play when there's not a Vig, but with a Vig I think eliminating today is definitely the optimal play

I know what this link is without clicking it and was recently thinking about it with respect to another game. I actually decided not to post it because I was scum in said game, which probably speaks to what a good idea I think this is

[Cephrir]

At the moment I think marashu or BBT are the most likely scum. I'll try to read up and firm this up if I feel motivated

I know I should have three but I'm just not sure about that right now. I'd need to look at the associatives

[Cephrir]

VOTE: Marashu

Hope this works

[Cephrir]

is this thing on? VOTE: marashu VOTE: marashu

hmmm it looks like it's working but nothing's happening! im gonna have to call IT

(yes im still holding out hope that this is twilight trolling... let me have this)

[Cephrir]

GG! Well done, teammates.