Open 874 - Donner Party - Postgame

[Gimli]

everyone that posted is >rand scum

townies in nonposters

[Gimli]

3 pages of fluff, do you guys think mafia is a fucking game or smt

take it seriously goddammit

[Gimli]

I'll start on the rice.

I love rice
rice to meet you

VOTE: karaiikame

[Gimli]

Hi Gimli

I get the sense this game will be full of chaos

hello

why is that?

[Gimli]

this is my first game where by page 4 I don't have a single townread, not even a glimpse of it.

pedit: bad read FB

'jumped on kawaii' super bad, you're not allowed to be this bad

[Gimli]

my first super cereal read

I don't believe you truly thought what you posted now and I think you're WKing poor ol' townie kawaii for me 'jumping' on them

[Gimli]

this is my first game where by page 4 I don't have a single townread, not even a glimpse of it.

pedit: bad read FB

'jumped on kawaii' super bad, you're not allowed to be this bad

im always bad.
explain why u jumped on kawaii over anyone else. if everyone is ">rand scum" why kawaii? Cause there was a wagon already?

cause he said 'rice to meet you'

[Gimli]

firebringer do you really think I'm gonna see a wagon on page 3 and JUMP ON THAT WAGON as a wolf to kill a townie that soon? do you give me no credit for having any kind of reasonable scum game instead?

[Gimli]

my first super cereal read

I don't believe you truly thought what you posted now and I think you're WKing poor ol' townie kawaii for me 'jumping' on them

then why r u arguing im bad lol

your read is bad and I think you're >rand mafia for it. are those impossible thoughts to coexist?

[Gimli]

firebringer do you really think I'm gonna see a wagon on page 3 and JUMP ON THAT WAGON as a wolf to kill a townie that soon? do you give me no credit for having any kind of reasonable scum game instead?

What is a reasonable scum game to you?

what do you expect from asking this? what FBer says he thinks I'm doing that's perceived as scum motivated is nuts. sure I can be scum but to see it as me jumping on an early wagon as an opportunistic thing when the entire game has been fluff posting and all wagons are RVS is senseless. I don't think he truly thinks that, I think he played enough mafia not to think that, so I'm poking at it to see what happens.

[Gimli]

your read is bad and I think you're >rand mafia for it. are those impossible thoughts to coexist?

sure, i just don't think it is. i think u sound super confident about me being scum and now i think Kawaii is probably town for ur reaction.

you're the one making associatives already. have I said I was sure you're scum, or have I said I don't believe your reactions to me?

[Gimli]

What would scum u do differently coming into this game?

idk mate, what would scum u do differently coming into this game?

[Gimli]

im so confused on ur read on me. are u saying im scum or u don't understand what im saying.
it feels like ur trying to see if u can change my read right now

if you want to you can marry that read, I'm not preoccupied with that rn. I'm more worried if you're mafia or not from how you're interacting with me. so far I think mafia.

[Gimli]

you're the one making associatives already. have I said I was sure you're scum, or have I said I don't believe your reactions to me?

u immediately said i was white knighting for kawaii, which to me was TMI that u knew kawaii was town. I don't know how u come to conclusion i was white knighting when i have not said a word about kawaii.

For all i know ur bussing kawaii but ur reaction tells me thats unlikely.

you said I was jumping on a wagon and implied that was scum motivated like I was trying to kill that player. now you're talking about bussing. that's too hard too early, it's hard to believe those are real thoughts aorn.

[Gimli]

i like kawaii questioning

why is that?

[Gimli]

What are your real thoughts Fb?

i think gimli reaction is townie right now. I think ill think it over some
He better keep scumreading me tho

I'm gonna townread your fiery ass right now

[Gimli]

VOTE: furtive

[Gimli]

early townread on norwee

[Gimli]

flea played potato-ey and noncommital last time fae was mafia so I think the somewhat inquisitive is >rand town

pedit: that's a comment you don't make when you're mafia either IDT flea.

I actually feel good about this game rn. the townies are showing up.

[Gimli]

I prefer Mia Goth

[Gimli]

VOTE: Cephrir

Oh stuff it furtive

is this svs

[Gimli]

dragoneater tentative townread

I hate people townreading me, it makes the game harder to solve, but I like the people that did tr me except for cephrir

[Gimli]

hey its std

[Gimli]

is he mafia though?

[Gimli]

yeah

[Gimli]

well I'm already voting furtive so


didn't quite liked norwee's reactions when he was pressed actually. even though maybe his wagon was a little silly as well? not townreading him anymore

I like the detective/ceph/firebringer/eatthedragons/kame as townies

bianco flea furtive maybe norwee can be scum

STD is someone I cannot read if my life depended on it

there's someone called sail and they're playing but haven't posted yet

[Gimli]

I think furtive would maybe pretend to be townier as scum

the refusal to engage seems a bit more likely to be a townie who doesn't have much of anything to say

the game has been annoying to come up with reads and stuff

[Gimli]

I thought his read that my wagon had scum was good. then someone pressed him and he backed off of it, but I don't think he posted that read as a joke. I didn't like that part especially.

[Gimli]

I'm not scum. If you give me something to talk about then I'll give it a go

Can you make your famous first ten pages analysis?

yeah I want that too

[Gimli]

I kinda think bianco is a townie by his posting cause it's less prepared than when he was scum

[Gimli]

VOTE: flea

[Gimli]

last time flea was scum fae was really busy so busy always busy never catching up never doing anything never producing reads

but ofc this time it can be NAI

[Gimli]

kinda zoned out of this game, expect to pick it up in a bit

[Gimli]

page 21 I like sail. I like dragoneater

[Gimli]

I wasn't able to be active, sorry. I'll try to catch up later today.
In the meantime, can anyone please give me a tl;dr?

Dont do that, apparently you have a life and stuff happening and you pick up 3 votes, including one of them from someone who only ever having 2 games with you knows your meta apparently.

Laptops loading, spotify is loaded.
Wall of quotes incoming.

this is exactly the type of irony flea used a whole lot as scum last game we played.

[Gimli]

SING TO MEEEEE by Delain.
5 posts ish per spoiler?

Spoiler: Happy tears fade fast, sad tears tend to last

@Flea, could you clarify #311 please?

yes I can, My brain did the wonderful thing of actually forgetting we never actually commented and just YEET.
Time go wibble.

Spoiler: 311

It would probably be ideal to get serial killer first assuming they have nightkill

And this.

Cereal Killer is a single person faction, and a threat to scum as much as town. Maf would prioritise the CK imo

Only thing i find strange about that post is norwee saying "assuming they have night kill" cause ive never heard of cereal killer with no nightkill.

what ur point?

My point is Yes we have 2 nightkills to stand against, we aren't going to find the SK this early, and currently they're as much a threat to us as they are to the mafia. We don't have kill power in this setup, and SK marches to their own drum. Mafia and SK in YOLO puts town as kingmaker. Mafia need SK gone more than we do at the moment.
Norwee prioritising SK this early is hella sus to me for this reason.

---

Also i wasn’t "3P" hunting and scumtelling because "only scum hunt SK" Flea. I was pointing out that from an mechanics standpoint it’s way better to kill the SK as early as possible because that limits the amount of kills from anti-town roles. This was an indirect answer to your question on what you thought was best between killing mafia or a SK today. Whether we actually hit scum at all today is the most important thing.

Oh I do love an early tell showdown.
Especially when its the over-explaining tell.
Annoyingly I think this one is NAI for you if my memory serves. For a D1 case, "only scum hunt SK" is brilliant for putting things into motion, I don't actually put that much credence into it beyond mid D1.

This leads to me asking you why give me an indirect answer to a question that wasn't even aimed at you? Just as importantly, Why give such a defensive response to the mildest of suspicion and end with a blanket statement that's true and NAI for ALL roles in this game?

---

Ok so i’ve done nothing and get wagoned wtf do u guys expect. I’m already tired today and i’m not gonna "become easy to read" like Fire apparently thinks will happen. In fact i’m just gonna go chill cus this game seems annoying now. Mislim me for nothing if y’all want, don’t care at all.

🌶 - 1/10 on the spicy scale.
I would add a normal comment but we're under stricter moderation again ain't we and I don't wanna risk it.

---

Why'd you move over to Ceph?

They are the scummiest in my eyes atm.

Curious to know who else you think is scummy, given your justification for VOTE:Cephrir being your scummiest is so weak it doesn't even make the spicy scale.

---

Having another look at it, Sail hasn't posted at all and I'm really unsure what the perspectives of both Flea and Bianco are. IDK if that makes them scummier or not, but I'd at least want to get Cephrir to E-2 for info before chasing another wagon. I definitely didn't get anything townie from Ceph.

Pedit: or we could go for Furtive. I guess they are actually quite deserving of a wagon ATM.

Before I change my vote, @Furtive please explain these two posts:

VOTE: Detective Penguin

I have an idea.

VOTE: Death Stare

VOTE: SaveTheDragons

Another Pedit: I actually didn't forget Bianco as you can see.

Never ever try and get my perspective. I come from a place of insanity and 9 times out of 10 I can't even remember what the hell I've posted.

Spoiler: You've got your blood stained heart, in your nicotine stained hands.

it's very jada essensce hall "LOOK OVER THERE"

yeah but would cephrir scum be that lazy

Actually would though...

---

hey cephrir u have a gun
who would u eat right now

Did you know Rifle Spoons are a thing? I didn't, I was hoping to find a spoon bayonet thingie but found something so much better

---

hey cephrir u have a gun
who would u eat right now

Furtive. Struggles to post as scum

Disagree. Has been a while admittedly, and I also think we're a little early to be dropping lines like that.

Scrolling sees that you admit you're wrong, cool. Still don't like how early that lines come out.

---

Ok so i’ve done nothing and get wagoned wtf do u guys expect. I’m already tired today and i’m not gonna "become easy to read" like Fire apparently thinks will happen. In fact i’m just gonna go chill cus this game seems annoying now. Mislim me for nothing if y’all want, don’t care at all.

thinking on this again does norwee town actually believe he would get elimmed this fast in a game? I don't think so.

This sounds like purposeful overreaction than really annoyance? Or maybe he is just trying to be adamant that he won't give what i want. easy read.

wow. I circled around to feeling this is 3d chess move.
ehhhhhhhh

ill say town still

I would actually say yes. Norwee isn't exactly great under pressure from memory regardless of alignment. I'm interested to see responses to stuff in the spoiler above.

Spoiler: And your 29 years did not help you pass

Am I producing enough content for you yet dragoneater

It's good enough for me to prefer a Furtive wagon over you, ig?

The sass of VOTE:Cephrir combined with the flatness of this response is just amazing.

---

Ur straight up bad at reading me then love this is an easy one

Tbf every game I've played with your gorgeous duo, this always happens. Like the day I'm in a game where Fenrir doesn't scumread your ass D1 is the day I just turbolim you both ngl.

---

Nothing until we actually have some flips.

Presenting: The reason I hate D1.

---

VOTE: KawaiiKame

So many posts so little content

This game is confusing, when I'm in confusion I don't pay attention, lemme attempt to be real

Norwee throwing up his hands and leaving in frustration is tai, being genuinely upset when close to being eliminated feels town when in the opening game, hopefully he's okay, Idk why it's being called a gold mine/treasure hunt unless the meaning is an info mine, that's what I'm counting on to have hope of solving this game

dragoneating is town to me since I like the engagement in attempting to solve/asking questions

I need to analyze the vote pushes between norwee vs. penguin though Idk if anything is in it

I voted Penguin since it's fun

fires seem to be the leader of this day, probably/hopefully town

I haven't read enough in depth to know about anyone else besides Penguin, Penguin seems chill

Growlithe usually needs a Fire Stone to lead, honestly I'm going to disagree with a large chunk of this post, its easier to go with what I do agree with.

Penguin is p chill. The "gold mine" isn't a big enough vein to set up on but we can pan for gold there at least. we might get a lil bit.

---

why did u vote me

set a new trend idk

It's not a new trend, trust me. You saw what happened on the Good Ship Mutiny.

I'm not scum. If you give me something to talk about then I'll give it a go

Can you make your famous first ten pages analysis?

Wait that's a thing?
I don't even read the first 10 pages usually xD I enter when I enter and the game for me doesn't exist before that. :3

Spoiler: All the roadkill, cheap thrill, obstacle-filled path

Get furtive to E-1. Sail is replaced by Not_Mafia and instant hammers.
imagine that

🌶🌶🌶 - 3/10
Paranoia or concern... hm....

---

I'm not scum. If you give me something to talk about then I'll give it a go

Can you make your famous first ten pages analysis?

yeah I want that too

Spoiler: The pages, collapsed by Flea

Spoiler: Page 1

bianco's joke feels a bit forced. Firebringer tunnelling Norwee out the gate might be +town because scum would feel bad about doing that.

Spoiler: Page 2

This is entirely fluff.

Spoiler: Page 3

Gimli's entrance is slightly +town. I'm also thinking Kawaii is town based on my expectations of new players.

Spoiler: Page 4

TvT vibes from Gimli and FB.

Spoiler: Page 5

bianco question is slightly +scum.

Spoiler: Page 6

Norwee's entrance is +town, Flea's is +scum.

Spoiler: Page 7

Norwee is very town, not for the SK nightkill thing but I do buy that as genuine. Flea 170 could be a lazy pocket.

Spoiler: Page 8

I don't think 181 is +town, the opposite actually. I've found that Mafia are often self-deprecating in this way.

Spoiler: Page 9

DragonEater70 entrance is +town, Cephrir null.

Spoiler: Page 10

STD comes in, nothing to read into really so null.

VOTE: Flea The Magician

VOTE: flea

GODS DAMN IT PUT SOME CLOTHES ON.
Nekkidness everywhere. Yeesh. At least I have me undercrackers on...

---

you're the one making associatives already. have I said I was sure you're scum, or have I said I don't believe your reactions to me?

u immediately said i was white knighting for kawaii, which to me was TMI that u knew kawaii was town. I don't know how u come to conclusion i was white knighting when i have not said a word about kawaii.

For all i know ur bussing kawaii but ur reaction tells me thats unlikely.

This is quite bad. Players often accuse others of white-knighting precisely because it seems like they are scum defending a town. Firebringer tries to frame this interaction as if Gimli thought that Firebringer’s scumread of Gimli was scummy, but Firebringer doesn’t acknowledge the possibility that there was a specific characteristic of his scumread that alerted Gimli that Firebringer was white-knighting.
So far, both Gimli and Firebringer seem scummy. Despite this, their interaction doesn’t seem like S/S. This is because of Firebringer’s slightly disingenuous characterization of Gimli’s posts. In my experience, scumpartners who are bussing try to fully understand their scumpartner’s posts before attacking them.

A challenger has appeared...
Can't wait to see you post more, your use of language is intriguing.

---

And Cereal kill.

i would never kill cereal.
Thats just barbaric

my mafia kills goes to Norwee

Really starting to get the openwolf vibe from you.

---

i don't think im nearly as good at reading u as cephrir tbh

Honestly I don't think StD is good at reading VOTE:Cephrir.

Spoiler: White lies, black dress, brightest of darkness

last time flea was scum fae was really busy so busy always busy never catching up never doing anything never producing reads

but ofc this time it can be NAI

You've had one game with me as scum, and I was caught up pretty regular, in contrast to my usual forever-in-catchup MO of scum in large.
So who's alt are you?

It's also almost like I have a life and health conditions that keep me busy... both of which are actually fairly well documented around the site

---

I hate people townreading me, it makes the game harder to solve, but I like the people that did tr me except for cephrir

This type of metacognition tends to come from town.

Cool. You're definitely well seasoned at this, how did you place on the MU tournament championship things?

---

VOTE: Flea

Put it away VOTE:Cephrir, nobody wants to see your naked ass... except maybe StD...

You close your tear-stained eyes to your silver-lined madness
After 29 years, you might want to confess
That we have made a fucked-up place that I can not erase

I read through all that performance

I think it was towny

I don't wanna flip flea anymore

[Gimli]

bianco still posting off the cuff means he is just town this game

[Gimli]

@bianco: same difference

it was the mutiny one. fae was just like lurkey scumposting throughout. I think fae's towngame has a kind of sparkle that fae is unable to replicate as mafia, so I didn't like fae's early start. I like the last post that I read though, so I suppose fae is a townie for now.

[Gimli]

bianco still posting off the cuff means he is just town this game

completely disagree

+0.25 scum for this post

[Gimli]

I wasn't able to be active, sorry. I'll try to catch up later today.
In the meantime, can anyone please give me a tl;dr?

Dont do that, apparently you have a life and stuff happening and you pick up 3 votes, including one of them from someone who only ever having 2 games with you knows your meta apparently.

Laptops loading, spotify is loaded.
Wall of quotes incoming.

I actually do think you're one of the easy reads of this game

[Gimli]

don't really love ceph or furtive voting flea even though I voted flea

[Gimli]

1. furtiveglance - idk scum?
2. Save The Dragons - idk
3. biancospino - town
4. Flea The Magician - town
5. KawaiiKame - town
6. Detective Penguin - town
7. Firebringer - town
8. Sail - town
9. Cephrir - idk
10. DragonEater70 - town
11. Gimli - town
12. NorwegianboyEE - idk

all my towns are locktowns

[Gimli]

so POE

(furtive, std, ceph, norwee)

is that a good solve friends

[Gimli]

which ones

[Gimli]

The thing is, yes it has a townie vibe but if you read it carefully it's mostly fluffy commentary with very little game advancing opinions on who's scum and who's town. It kinda nudges me the wrong way, but it still feels townie in vibe.
IDK, does anyone here know Flea's meta well? Or can link to past games of theirs?

viewtopic.php?t=90280

this is faer's latest scum game. it was just low presence safe stances and I think some difficulty posting fake organically looking solving. so I'm looking for that.

[Gimli]

bianco and Flea

I will make you see Gimli

you didn't play against scum bianco, he was in your team. remember that long convoluted reasoning things? I don't see him doing any of that here, it feels more like in thread solving etc.

I could be wrong ofc I was townreading bianco when he was doing the long convoluted thing too

[Gimli]

ok

I'll take furtive out of the POE

[Gimli]

still trust my bianco read more for now but let's see

[Gimli]

do you townread norwee?

[Gimli]

wait so you're both scumreading bianco and flea?

[Gimli]

No

Just flea

I just don't think you should base your read on one game

Ive seen both play town and scum

anyway it's early thin reads and I expect both to be obviously townies at some point.

are you just writing me off as town here?

[Gimli]

you know what

okay

VOTE: flea

[Gimli]

you know what

okay

VOTE: flea

What did make you change your mind?

I'm townreading furtive and STD after *current page* and they're better at mafia than I am

[Gimli]

I think we shouldn't flip flea today

[Gimli]

hint: it starts with penguin

[Gimli]

I'm happy with my flea vote again

[Gimli]

especially if what fae is complaining that sail is ignoring faer is a silly question about a position in a tournament. like ?????????

[Gimli]

bianco could be mafia, I'm expecting him to town it up if he is town

so far meh, was kinda townreading him for making shorter posts and *interacting* but that read is aging like a cup of milk

[Gimli]

VOTE: biancospino

let's try this for a while

[Gimli]

furtive/std townies and killing scum I think

(bianco, flea) should def contain at least one of them. from std it could be early bussing but I think furtive is just using his detective hat this game

[Gimli]

his detective hat this game

I take umbrage with this...real detectives don't wear hats.

Also, what is it in furtive's interactions with this game that makes you think he is actually doing this (apart from him appealing to your ego)? Because I don't see it at all.

I had furtive in my POE until he started interacting with me re: his scumreads that I was townreading. what follows is that both biancospino and flea started to feel very much like possible scum. I felt his approach had towny vibes and his solve makes much sense.

Spoiler: furtive's interaction with my POE

bianco still posting off the cuff means he is just town this game

completely disagree

so POE

(furtive, std, ceph, norwee)

is that a good solve friends

max 1 in here, 2 in your locktowns

bianco and Flea

I will make you see Gimli

bianco and Flea

I will make you see Gimli

you didn't play against scum bianco, he was in your team. remember that long convoluted reasoning things? I don't see him doing any of that here, it feels more like in thread solving etc.

I could be wrong ofc I was townreading bianco when he was doing the long convoluted thing too

It's not about style, it's about tone and motivation

maybe I'm pocketed by scum cause he is strong TRing me, but it feels like a genuine impression and not TMI. rn I think it's a genuine impression.

[Gimli]

well I mean you're entitled to disagree with me, I just really think furtive is a townie

the genuine impression is re: his townread on me and not something in any of these posts I quoted.

[Gimli]

I was townreading two slots with shaky reasoning. just by pointing at these slots again, I could see how that was precipitated and how they were both >rand scum.

bianco's and flea's posts afterwards are strengthening that read. of course, doing an associative read this early can be pretty bad, but I don't think furtive goes 'gimli I'll make you see' about one of his scumbuddies that I'm townreading. so furtive is already at pretty low equity with these two slots.

if they're both town, then maybe furtive can be scum? sure, but I still get towny vibes off him, I still see what he saw re: those slots, so I'm pretty comfortable with writing him off as a townie.

[Gimli]

if you think I'm SK hunting you're wrong dude

[Gimli]

you give me a town and a sk role and I can play both exactly the same way idk how we can solve past that point so it becomes just kill everything and see who wins

[Gimli]

SK has all the motive and intent to scumhunt as the SK wants sole control over NKs

they also don't wanna draw the NK, they wanna play the game to a point and not like super well

that's annoying to deal with I don't wanna deal with it maybe after we flipped all the scum

[Gimli]

maybe but too specific for d1, I think.

[Gimli]

@bianco: I think you're the two most likely scum. to leave that pool all you both have to do is post towny things. I'm not associating one with the other in any way, but I have the impression there's scum between the two of you. all of the other slots are much townier, with the exception of maybe norwee/STD/ceph maybe FBer? but those slots are still townier than the two of you I think.

if you're town just keep posting.

[Gimli]

should we post dietician cover from d2 forward?

[Gimli]

should we post dietician cover from d2 forward?

Do you mean hypo claims?

idk what that means but like

'if im dietician then n1 result STD is a cannibal' etc

[Gimli]

I'm worried with town ending up suffocated by lack of information later on, so leaving cover etc could be good

[Gimli]

bianco is e-2

[Gimli]

i reread bianco and im not especially townreading her but i also have no idea why we're doing this haha

do you have a better suggestion?

[Gimli]

I'm always looking for reasons to townread players. especially in a game like this, with only a pair of groupwolf. I can see a case for almost every single slot being town. maybe the exception to biancospino is flea, I think fae is possibly scummier.

but just so I'm sure I like this, I wanna ISO biancospino's replace into 2019. I remember really liking his posts in that game.

[Gimli]

viewtopic.php?sid=&f=56&t=90204&user_select%5B%5D=36835

if anyone wants to read it too

[Gimli]

VOTE: flea

[Gimli]

I think it's too early for E-1

I think flea is substantially scummier than bianco. what do you think, furtive?

[Gimli]

I'm vibing with cephrir, I think this game is fairly difficult

[Gimli]

I don't want bianco to claim

I think there's enough similarity between this and bianco's town game in 2019 to let him breathe for at least a gameday

can't say the same about flea

[Gimli]

Gimli, what do you think about Penguin?

VOTE: Detective Penguin

I'm with cephrir

he seems *a little different* like ceph said

is it scummy? I didn't think it was scummy. it strikes me more as a 'penguin intensifies' sort of business. why do you think he is scummy?

[Gimli]

the question 'why is penguing trying to be townread?' is probably a very legitimate one. it puts him more on a TPR or scum range. but he could just be happier with this game than he was dealing with town!koki in haunted village. I have nothing else to go by, and I expect him to do everything he did so far as a townie, so IDK. could be a wolf but it's a shot in the dark.

[Gimli]

I don't want bianco to claim

can't say the same about flea

Paranoid reflexive blank Vigilante.

I don't wanna pick on you but when you edit out my post and takes it out of context just to insert a joke, I think that's scummy. I'm scumreading you, many of us are. do you have anything to say to what? who's scum pushing you?

idk do something

[Gimli]

I'm seeing this game that a vote uncast can say a lot, or at least make me think it's meaningful.

we can flip flea and find out if it's meaningful or not

[Gimli]

he thinks flea and penguin could be svs

[Gimli]

@bianco: I think people are fine with flipping flea because fae looks at least reasonably scummy/null to the majority of the players. some are strong SRing, no one is really townreading faer. I don't think the scum partner will put their necks out for flea here, so it makes sense if the threadstate is one where we're just suspecting and gathering votes on scum. I wanna know why you find the general attitude towards flea suspicious. help me see what you're seeing.

[Gimli]

Agree norwee's recent posting is townie

[Gimli]

flea is getting a disappointingly small amount of votes now

is anyone townreading any part of fae's reaction to my suspicion of faer?

anyway I'm ISOing sail now

[Gimli]

Spoiler: some things from sail's ISO

What would scum u do differently coming into this game?

This is the kind of pointless, open-ended question that I often see scum ask.

agree with this take and like the scumhunting posting from sail

you're the one making associatives already. have I said I was sure you're scum, or have I said I don't believe your reactions to me?

u immediately said i was white knighting for kawaii, which to me was TMI that u knew kawaii was town. I don't know how u come to conclusion i was white knighting when i have not said a word about kawaii.

For all i know ur bussing kawaii but ur reaction tells me thats unlikely.

This is quite bad. Players often accuse others of white-knighting precisely because it seems like they are scum defending a town. Firebringer tries to frame this interaction as if Gimli thought that Firebringer’s scumread of Gimli was scummy, but Firebringer doesn’t acknowledge the possibility that there was a specific characteristic of his scumread that alerted Gimli that Firebringer was white-knighting.
So far, both Gimli and Firebringer seem scummy. Despite this, their interaction doesn’t seem like S/S. This is because of Firebringer’s slightly disingenuous characterization of Gimli’s posts. In my experience, scumpartners who are bussing try to fully understand their scumpartner’s posts before attacking them.

I like all of this as towny even though I disagree with the core of it.

i like kawaii questioning

Why? I'm inquisitive by nature, so I like it too
I'm asking 2 late, Ik why now

This is fairly towny. I don’t think that scum would question Firebringer’s early townread on them, and this post feels like genuine sorting.

this is a good perception of kawaii and +town points for sail imo.

I hate people townreading me, it makes the game harder to solve, but I like the people that did tr me except for cephrir

This type of metacognition tends to come from town.

it's true and good perception imo.

i dont think ive been all that townie.
so i don't feel that great about dragon eater calling me town this fast.

On the other hand, this type of questioning a townread that another player has on them is scummy, as opposed to Kawaii's 113. The difference is that here, Firebringer uses it as an opportunity to shade Dragon. Meanwhile, Kawaii asked questions in 113 in order to get a better read on Firebringer.

kind of dislike the comparison thing, seems to be more of a thing wolves post to appear towny, but the comparison makes sense and FB is scummier or at least way more performative doing it than kawaii, who just appears to be genuine abt it.

hey cephrir u have a gun
who would u eat right now

Furtive. Struggles to post as scum

Disagree. Has been a while admittedly, and I also think we're a little early to be dropping lines like that.

Scrolling sees that you admit you're wrong, cool. Still don't like how early that lines come out.

I think that because Cephrir admitted that he was wrong without being pushed about it indicates a town thought process. It seems more likely to me that Cephrir wasn’t paying enough attention to the game and then went back and reevaluated.

I'm a bit lazy to scroll through the entire ISO (or even more than a handful of posts). What I did see is that in Mutiny, Scum!Flea was putting on a pretense of scumhunting and participating which I don't really see here, and which actually made me townread them in Mutiny. So I guess bc they are scummier they are town? Is that what you guys are seeing?

In that game, it seemed that Flea cared a lot more about how other people saw them. Flea felt more of a need to justify their, albeit valid, reasons why they were away/not reading than in this game. What most stuck out to me about Flea's ISO in HMS Mutiny is that it seemed like Flea was either faking being friendly, or Flea was more nervous - I can't tell which. Either way, I don't perceive this to be how Flea is playing in this game.

I almost like this enough to feel bad about wagoning flea.

sail is like very likely town and a bad wagon imo.

[Gimli]

when I wake up I'll revisit dragon eater and maybe firebringer. I might be clearing them for bad reasons.

I'll also think about this: the way flea is acting now is more or less likely to come from someone who wants to be townread and appease to people as scum, or is it scum irritated with the scumread and flailing, or is it a townie struggling to post cause fae hates d1s?

q's for tomorrow gnight thread

[Gimli]

dragon eater's ISO: read half of it and am writing off as townie/not groupscum

decided not to check firebringer today and just roll with that

[Gimli]

Fae's not even trying to look good or appeasing imho, so that's not (a). I think you're in a bit of a tunnel

fae was. fae's first few posts are definitely some sort of LAMIST posting. it's now just complaining about my SR and complaining about d1, and not doing anything else, which feels a bit like scum losing their ground in the game. ofc I could be wrong... are you townreading flea?

[Gimli]

viewtopic.php?sid=&f=23&t=90243&user_select%5B%5D=34888

flea in legends of the hidden temple. it's not crying about d1, in fact it's playing the shit out of it? so.

I'm just voting there and asking other people to vote there. unless you guys wanna flip bianco. unwilling to flip anyone else this gameday. bianco defending flea just makes them look aligned, but it could also be TMI posturing? idk.

I have a POE outside of these two of (STD, ceph, firebringer, penguin). but these are simply 4 players I don't think I can read well and they've all made townie looking posting. so they're not good d1s, IDT.

anyway good morning team

[Gimli]

viewtopic.php?sid=&f=23&t=90243&user_select%5B%5D=34888

flea in legends of the hidden temple. it's not crying about d1, in fact it's playing the shit out of it? so.

I'm just voting there and asking other people to vote there. unless you guys wanna flip bianco. unwilling to flip anyone else this gameday. bianco defending flea just makes them look aligned, but it could also be TMI posturing? idk.

I have a POE outside of these two of (STD, ceph, firebringer, penguin). but these are simply 4 players I don't think I can read well and they've all made townie looking posting. so they're not good d1s, IDT.

anyway good morning team

Pronouns. Watch them.
Https://my.pronouns.page/@FleaTheMagician

IDK where I misused your pronouns and I'm taking a great deal of care not to do that after mutiny.

[Gimli]

Not that youd particularly care gimli, I had nancy to bounce off D1 in legends. D1 is my weakest play. Always has been.

of course I care, do you think I want to be wrong? I want to be right, I want to flip scum. if you're town town it up, start making good reads and townhunt.

you have me to bounce reads off of if you want. doesn't need to be in a hood. you didn't know nancy was town so what's the difference?

[Gimli]

you think you don't have usable meta, clearly.

I'll dive into you

and sorry for using 'it', for some reason I didn't think I was using a pronoun or something. english is complicated.

[Gimli]

you're making reads in all your town games

here it's like, IDEK what you're doing, but I don't see the reads. you're voting me cause I'm pushing you, okay, but when we talk it's not like you think I'm scum or anything.

who are you suspicious of? who are you townreading?

[Gimli]

if std wants to kill flea then I'm not moving my vote elsewhere today

[Gimli]

I told you to post reads and you're like *personal stuff* which is fine but it's what you were doing in mutiny too and you were a wolf there

I don't even think I should interact with you anymore, I think we should just flip you and figure out what your d1 meant

if you start playing mafia and posting reads I'll read that

[Gimli]

The only problem is if I flip, i dont trust town to extract the correct information. Especially if Gimli keeps being loud - self admitted to being bad at mafia and yet still attempts to town lead.

okay but is std and furtive bad? cause they're also scumreading you

are they mafia?

[Gimli]

@bianco: yeah because my read on you isn't associative with fae, it never was. I think you're scummy and I think fae is scummy. I think your read on faer is very interesting and I think it's scummy regardless of flea's alignment. I have more reasons to townread you now than to townread flea, but it's really thin.

[Gimli]

woe is flea

[Gimli]

@FB: are you feeling strong that this is >rand town for flea? I can move to biancospino if you feel that's better. not to dragon eater though.

[Gimli]

so flea went full toxic

is that towny? do we wanna go bianco instead today?

pls @std @fb @norwee halp

pedit: don't apologize lol fae is being super mean to multiple people here

[Gimli]

bianco feels like safe stancing too much

but like I don't wanna flip flea anymore I think this is too much to be scum so idk

but if you say this is all scum theatre probably then sure

[Gimli]

you saying the incertainty here is a façade?

yeah. I don't think you're trying to solve any parts of this game. are you? i don't know your scumreads, your townreads or anything. cephrir is right about this kind of dead end question too. I hope you do something with it now and respond in a way that's meaningful.

[Gimli]

VOTE: bianco

[Gimli]

@bianco I think if you want to claim you can do that now

[Gimli]

But you were defending me to flea

[Gimli]

Is dragon dragon eater or std?

[Gimli]

lol ceph

I think both flea and bianco are writing ????? and am fine flipping either

[Gimli]

lambs to my Mary

[Gimli]

I tend to respond better to reason

sorry if you're town?

[Gimli]

I can see flea being town given faer's emotion

I think also the way biancospino interacted with flea could make sense from a TMI perspective. I'm expecting bianco to flip mafia here.

it's possible that, if bianco flips mafia, their partner is already running a candidacy for deepwolf. d1 is gonna be hard to read and just flipping the CW might not be a great thing.

so lots of things for the cannibal to think about.

[Gimli]

I just implore you to not just speedchain a Flea lim tomorrow. It's possible I'm wrong and all, so if you find fae scummy whatever, but my gut says town quite strongly.

I also think there is a wolf in {Gimli, Cephrir, Dragon}, whatever.
VOTE: Cephrir

I expect scum!bianco to put their partner here and fall for the rule of three

also I think the defense of flea is so extreme that it feels like scum TMIing and also tying themselves up with flea so that when bianco flips red we do actually speedlim flea.

I've re-read dragoneater and I can see why some people suspect the slot. it made some fine looking posts and I've agreed with many of their stances, though.

if cephrir is bianco's partner, it has definitely played it in a way to set himself up for lategame and decided to bus. I think cephrir's case against bianco is very solid and made me feel at home with being on this wagon instead of pushing flea.

otoh I think e.g. furtive is lockclear of being bianco's partner. norwee as well doesn't feel like they're bussing. FBer and sail as well, pending a re-read.

so maybe if bianco is mafia the partner is in (cephrir, dragoneater, flea?, STD?).

anyway I've been accused of hijacking the game and leading town when I'm horrible at mafia, so just to make sure we're clear from this misconception: I am horrible at mafia and I do not intend on leading town. I'm simply posting my thoughts and talking to people and saying who I feel good about voting.

[Gimli]

this is already more scumhunting than flea did in one month of HMS mutiny as scum so fae is probably town.

I think bianco's partner is in (STD, ceph, dragoneater)

ceph would have to be bussing the ever living fuck out of his partner which, why not? but somehow I think that's not too likely

STD has softdefended bianco throughout d1, suspecting people that suspect him without townreading him. also called out ceph for putting bianco in the spotlight with the 'I bet you forgot bianco existed' vote (which I think was a nice vote and tone and I had forgotten bianco existed as well).

DE is someone I'm not scumreading and have no idea if associatives work but bianco mentioned him as a potential scum and I think that's interesting as I think bianco would try to distance themselves from a partner while going down.

[Gimli]

ceph would have to be bussing the ever living fuck out of his partner which, why not? but somehow I think that's not too likely

If this is your barometer, you should be throwing furtive in the pool as well. His dance around bianco is actually worse than cephypoo's.

this is why I don't think furtive is scum with bianco:

Spoiler:

so POE

(furtive, std, ceph, norwee)

is that a good solve friends

max 1 in here, 2 in your locktowns

bianco and Flea

I will make you see Gimli

I don't think furtive beats me up on my wrong townread of a partner like that.

[Gimli]

I mean - if a partner is going to bus then that's exactly what they would do...and I would note, that furtive was happy to get off bianco (on to me...remember that flash?) and slower to get back on than cephypoo.

they may both be equally as unlikely to be mafia with bianco. I've reread ceph and I'm fine with him just being a townie. I like parts of his progression on bianco and the final push was fundamental to get him flipped so I'm giving him tons of townpoints.

I also like his kawaiikame SK read. we might have to start SK hunting soon, and maybe the player LAMISTing the game early then fading to oblivion once real scumhunting started might as well just be the one.

gth if bianco is mafia I think flipping STD works from how he treated that slot as well

[Gimli]

I'm going over these scenarios also because if bianco is scum then scum might decide to make the horrible mistake of killing me

[Gimli]

I went through ceph and dragoneater because of rule of three. I then looked at scenarios and re-read ceph and I don't think it's ceph. re-reading ceph re: bianco I also come across the 'gross post tbh' which is STD shutting down suspicion over bianco. that looks more partnery than anything else that happened itg.

[Gimli]

yeah it can totally be dragoneater

[Gimli]

I'm at (STD, dragoneater) now just to be clear

[Gimli]

this reminds me that STD has towny vibes dealing with your slot in that page, so it might as well just be dragoneater

[Gimli]

sorry bianco

[Gimli]

furtive and dragoneater

[Gimli]

I hate furtive's EOD too much

think flea is a townie after faer's evaluation of bianco, I feel like I could finally see a post by flea that was actively solving in a way that's unlikely to come from a wolf

I really like peng this game and think his EOD and twilight was towny

so furtive coming here with the same peng/flea solve from pages ago is not a good look I expect him to do better

[Gimli]

first

[Gimli]

only two deaths mean that either SKer and scum killed peng

or that sker or scum was RBed

the sail kill seems to come from town cannibal

[Gimli]

VOTE: flea

[Gimli]

SKer wasn't roleblocked as per roleblocker role pm

so I think maybe scum was

that'd be really sweet

really really sweet

[Gimli]

well I should hardclaim anyway

I'm the town cannibal

last night I ate sail

they were mafia

[Gimli]

Yoooo

I almost ate you for that EOD btw

[Gimli]

not necessarily

if the roleblocker roleblocked flea then they can stfu about it and we just flip flea. flea's associatives with sail work and I think he is a likely roleblock target.

if they roleblocked someone else then I think they have to at some point, its too good of an opportunity to pass up + I love for two more gamedays to SK hunt

[Gimli]

if the roleblocker has a red on someone they might as well out it, we remove scum from the game and it makes it harder for the SKer to reach parity

[Gimli]

Spoiler: some things from sail's ISO

What would scum u do differently coming into this game?

This is the kind of pointless, open-ended question that I often see scum ask.

agree with this take and like the scumhunting posting from sail

you're the one making associatives already. have I said I was sure you're scum, or have I said I don't believe your reactions to me?

u immediately said i was white knighting for kawaii, which to me was TMI that u knew kawaii was town. I don't know how u come to conclusion i was white knighting when i have not said a word about kawaii.

For all i know ur bussing kawaii but ur reaction tells me thats unlikely.

This is quite bad. Players often accuse others of white-knighting precisely because it seems like they are scum defending a town. Firebringer tries to frame this interaction as if Gimli thought that Firebringer’s scumread of Gimli was scummy, but Firebringer doesn’t acknowledge the possibility that there was a specific characteristic of his scumread that alerted Gimli that Firebringer was white-knighting.
So far, both Gimli and Firebringer seem scummy. Despite this, their interaction doesn’t seem like S/S. This is because of Firebringer’s slightly disingenuous characterization of Gimli’s posts. In my experience, scumpartners who are bussing try to fully understand their scumpartner’s posts before attacking them.

I like all of this as towny even though I disagree with the core of it.

i like kawaii questioning

Why? I'm inquisitive by nature, so I like it too
I'm asking 2 late, Ik why now

This is fairly towny. I don’t think that scum would question Firebringer’s early townread on them, and this post feels like genuine sorting.

this is a good perception of kawaii and +town points for sail imo.

I hate people townreading me, it makes the game harder to solve, but I like the people that did tr me except for cephrir

This type of metacognition tends to come from town.

it's true and good perception imo.

i dont think ive been all that townie.
so i don't feel that great about dragon eater calling me town this fast.

On the other hand, this type of questioning a townread that another player has on them is scummy, as opposed to Kawaii's 113. The difference is that here, Firebringer uses it as an opportunity to shade Dragon. Meanwhile, Kawaii asked questions in 113 in order to get a better read on Firebringer.

kind of dislike the comparison thing, seems to be more of a thing wolves post to appear towny, but the comparison makes sense and FB is scummier or at least way more performative doing it than kawaii, who just appears to be genuine abt it.

hey cephrir u have a gun
who would u eat right now

Furtive. Struggles to post as scum

Disagree. Has been a while admittedly, and I also think we're a little early to be dropping lines like that.

Scrolling sees that you admit you're wrong, cool. Still don't like how early that lines come out.

I think that because Cephrir admitted that he was wrong without being pushed about it indicates a town thought process. It seems more likely to me that Cephrir wasn’t paying enough attention to the game and then went back and reevaluated.

I'm a bit lazy to scroll through the entire ISO (or even more than a handful of posts). What I did see is that in Mutiny, Scum!Flea was putting on a pretense of scumhunting and participating which I don't really see here, and which actually made me townread them in Mutiny. So I guess bc they are scummier they are town? Is that what you guys are seeing?

In that game, it seemed that Flea cared a lot more about how other people saw them. Flea felt more of a need to justify their, albeit valid, reasons why they were away/not reading than in this game. What most stuck out to me about Flea's ISO in HMS Mutiny is that it seemed like Flea was either faking being friendly, or Flea was more nervous - I can't tell which. Either way, I don't perceive this to be how Flea is playing in this game.

I almost like this enough to feel bad about wagoning flea.

sail is like very likely town and a bad wagon imo.

Btw Gimli, at no point last day did you call Sail anything but town so why did you shoot them?

I ISO'd a bit at night. I think sail was doing too much of a 'i dont like player doing x cause this is what scum does' and 'i like player doing y cause y is something town does', felt like mechanically arguing throughout so I shot there.

I don't wanna brag about it I think I just got lucky tbh

[Gimli]

yes I know

I insta claimed for this reason fwiw

[Gimli]

we might have auto

[Gimli]

FBer if you don't counterclaim town cannibal I'm gonna be very sad

[Gimli]

town's NAs dissolved the fuck out of this game

good to be a part of it

[Gimli]

stop voting firebringer

we might have auto with the roleblocker action, give it a second

[Gimli]

literally firebringer/sail then

[Gimli]

I'm eating furtive tonight cause I think he'd kill the peng

[Gimli]

we can all move on then?

[Gimli]

im eating furtive tonight

[Gimli]

you're so cool FBer

I'd be posting memes

[Gimli]

VOTE: firebringer

lets close the thread before woe is flea can post!

[Gimli]

Ceph can you RB Gimli for me. I want to eat him without him eating me

you won't concede just to get that action through

[Gimli]

I find it amazing how in sync STD and ceph were wrt scumreading FBer

[Gimli]

and firebringer is also mafia

[Gimli]

i believe DE always been the towniest dragon in this game

[Gimli]

yeah

[Gimli]

you're too cute to be eating people

[Gimli]

GG town we got this in the bag <3

So easy to pick furtive as the neutral SKer actually, he wasn't groupscum but his posting was reserveeeed

Sail shot was kind of a lucky guess but good to know my NAs served town well

Thanks for modding alianna!

[Gimli]

Yeah he was catching you

So the mafia took gimli down n1? Wow that's nice, though I guess I was just vibing town pr playing rly hard