Micro 1073: Purgatory - Game Over!
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Vanderscamp Mafia Scum
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Vanderscamp Mafia Scum
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Oh, no!
VOTE: Arko
Pretty sure I was first, lim all liars-
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Vanderscamp Mafia Scum
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I'm excited for this set, seems fun.
I feel it has to be town-sided, it's hard to see two mafia making it to hell before heaven, but I could be wrong.-
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I'll put arko as a very mild town for interest, I agree nothing that's been done so far is super towny-
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But very mild town is still top of the list!-
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Strong read that OE and Arko are not scum together, I don't think you say "I don't think you'll die from my vote" if your plan is to bus.In post 47, Oclaxian Empire wrote: grim: fwiw, i expect the rvs vote to change, and i dont realistically think ull die from my vote, but it did elicit a reaction from u and that’s the thing i wanted from u.-
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I can see OE believing their case as town but I definitely agree with you that I don't agree at all with it.In post 49, BloodB0t wrote:
VOTE: Oclaxian Empire ForIn post 46, Oclaxian Empire wrote: grim: i’m calling it’s e-2 so scum cant quickhammer. i dont likelike it implies that there’s somehow a chance its townie in this setup to setup spec.ur phrasing of “its technically NAI”
realistically, the only setup spec that actually matters isbc trying to switch between both seems like a bit much.if it’s better to townhunt or scumhunt the whole game
also, ur reaction to my e-2 vote is interesting and i wanna think abt it.nitpickingandcreating a false dichotomy.
Personally I think we should scumhunt on days we will be sending people to hell and townhunt on days we will be sending people to heaven, and that people's preferences on this don't really matter all that much. I say take the approach that works best for you.
I also thought Arko's 'reaction' was another NAI thing, and your approach here seems a bit forced.-
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Vanderscamp Mafia Scum
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I mean, it's not imprecise, you're just reading an implication into it.In post 51, Oclaxian Empire wrote: u clearly havent played w/ us then, bc that’s a major thing. precisely saying what u mean is important and we will nitpick smth bc its imprecise. thats nai.
Is this really a thing you do, for real?
Because in general I find scum to be waaaaay more precise with their language compared to town.-
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You think page 3 sounded like playful ribbing?In post 84, Aisa wrote:Spoiler:
I TL Bella for this. Stating a read early on, and I, too, understand.
I think I understand Ranger's perspective that BloodB0t could be distancing, too. Idk my read on Blood overall though. I considered Oclaxian Empire + Arko scum together, seems like page 3 could be playful ribbing between teammates. Ironically I think Ranger could also be scum looking for an angle, partnered with one or more of {BloodB0t, Oclaxian Empire, Arko}.
The only actual read I have is the Bella townlean, the rest are scenarios I'm musing but I have no take on their relative likelihood.
I didn't get that impression at all.-
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I would often townread OE for the level of passion because I feel like it's usually towny to be worked up like this, but what OE is saying is just so weird to me that I'm not going to.
This is probably my top scumread because I can definitely see this being scum theatre, but I'm not very confident.-
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Also, not that it really matters, but meta is IMO absolutely a good way to read people, because people don't play the same as both alignments, no matter how much they try to.-
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Can =/= will, and in fact in this case almost definitely means doesn't, because if they did, it wouldn't be their meta.In post 104, Oclaxian Empire wrote:
The main thing with our meta that I can tell you, is I ignore my partners and post less as scum. That’s why meta is dogshit to read from, because that’s something you can manipulate. People can easily manipulate their meta, by looking at how they play and try to change it. Does that mean they will, 100% of the time, do so successfully? No, but that means meta is unreliable as a method, because players can recognize their own meta and manipulate it.In post 94, Vanderscamp wrote: Also, not that it really matters, but meta is IMO absolutely a good way to read people, because people don't play the same as both alignments, no matter how much they try to.-
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Yeah, I'm just not feeling an ox vote for whatever reason.
I really really don't like what they're choosing to focus on but I've been down this road many times with this line of logic with mixed results and it just doesn't feel right here.-
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If you're one person why do you have a main account?In post 110, Oclaxian Empire wrote:
Also technically not a hydra in the typical sense - its more akin to a meatspace hydra. We’re a system, meaning there’s multiple people in our head, who all have are their own unique identity.In post 95, AurorusVox wrote: (I guess that’s the challenge of a hydra account) so not sure why arko would be singled out for it.
I kinda instinctually know what Grim’s going at when posting, but not 100% certain, but we normally have notes for each other to read and play off of.-
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Do you still want me to tell you more?In post 113, Aisa wrote:
Tell me more?In post 89, Vanderscamp wrote:
Strong read that OE and Arko are not scum together, I don't think you say "I don't think you'll die from my vote" if your plan is to bus.In post 47, Oclaxian Empire wrote: grim: fwiw, i expect the rvs vote to change, and i dont realistically think ull die from my vote, but it did elicit a reaction from u and that’s the thing i wanted from u.
In post 92, Vanderscamp wrote:
You think page 3 sounded like playful ribbing?In post 84, Aisa wrote:Spoiler:
I TL Bella for this. Stating a read early on, and I, too, understand.
I think I understand Ranger's perspective that BloodB0t could be distancing, too. Idk my read on Blood overall though. I considered Oclaxian Empire + Arko scum together, seems like page 3 could be playful ribbing between teammates. Ironically I think Ranger could also be scum looking for an angle, partnered with one or more of {BloodB0t, Oclaxian Empire, Arko}.
The only actual read I have is the Bella townlean, the rest are scenarios I'm musing but I have no take on their relative likelihood.
I didn't get that impression at all.
Yeah whoops. Initially I had looked at a few posts and my brain decided that the rest of the interaction must have been more of the same.In post 85, Aisa wrote: Sorry, I originally skimmed page 3 but on a more careful reread "playful ribbing" is not the right description.
I think my first post summed up my point and I think their interactions since then where Ox seemed very annoyed just strengthen my read, and I think it's fairly clear.-
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Because by saying that sentence they're downplaying the importance of the bus vote and basically foregoing any cred they would get from it.In post 143, Aisa wrote:
Having thought about it, you're right about the interactions since meaning they are unlikely to be partnered. And establishing that feels like the most important point in this conversation.In post 123, Vanderscamp wrote:Spoiler: Context
Do you still want me to tell you more?
I think my first post summed up my point and I think their interactions since then where Ox seemed very annoyed just strengthen my read, and I think it's fairly clear.
I had questions such as:
- Why isn't "I don't think you'll die from my vote" something you say when you bus?
- Why is it such a strong read? -> I think I understand this one now
- In a world where Arko and Oclaxian Empire were both scum, would they be more likely to hard bus or to distance just a little bit? Is "I don't think you'll die from my vote" unlikely in both scenarios? -> Also feels like a pointless question at the moment
If they thought that, they could just choose to not say it and it looks better.
I have no idea what the answer to your third question is but I think it's unlikely in both, moreso the hard bussing one.-
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I like the read even more now because if Ox is scum they're clearly fairly image focused.-
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In post 147, Aisa wrote: In some ways I find Vanders sooo towny. The above post, for example ^
BUT
I'm still worried he's scum. Send help!-
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Why is giving me a townread terrifying?In post 157, Aisa wrote: Maybe I’ll regret saying this in 2 hours’ time, but Vanders can have a townread for now…
*trembles like a leaf*
I like the lemon too but I haven’t thought about it as hard. (The lemon is AurorusVox.)-
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Can you explain why Arko's stuff is by far the towniest of everyone?In post 176, Ranger wrote:
Bad approach tbh. My reads are fluid. Write a case on what makes Arko scum and I'll listen. You can convince me. I simply haven't been, because Arko's content is by far the towniest in the game imo.In post 159, Aisa wrote:My read on Ranger is contingent on what Arko is at the moment, I think.
This is a very interesting way of wording it.In post 162, Oclaxian Empire wrote:"you and arko can't be scum, but even if you flip town, i don't think arko is scum still bc arko's the towniest slot in the game"
It's simultaneously stating I'm town (163; "has determined", "won't reevaluate"; those aren't phrases used to describe a scum player, those are phrases describing a town player), while also taking the least-flattering reading of my 149.
I believe Arko-OE have interactions strongly indicating they're not scum-scum. Scum-town's possible. Town-scum's possible. Town-town's possible. Never scum-scum.
Separately, Arko is my strongest townread rn.
Separately, Oclaxian Empire's content has overall been suspect, enough to be a main scum candidate.
Arko isn't town because of OE being scum. The three points had no connection. Stating they did connect is somewhat disingenuous.
Because it's not obvious to me what he's done that's been super towny.-
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Oh, I see you've just explained it.
From your explanation I feel like your townread is TMI.
I don't believe that you have individual townreads on all of those Arko posts.-
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I'm interested in this too.In post 181, AurorusVox wrote:
Like. What?In post 154, Arko wrote:
Yes I'm E-2. I can't change that. It's bad. However, I could change ox being E-2. So I did. Found it too early when we have so much time left. If they end up acting scummier or they are on track to death, yes, I may revote them.In post 152, AurorusVox wrote:
Not sure I buy this panic tbhIn post 118, Arko wrote: Morning.
UNVOTE:
Ok... 3 Votes on ox already is way too quick. It took you guys only like 12 hours past my original vote. plus, BB was against ox too so they might of voted/hammered also. That's way too quick for a game with 3 scum vs 6.
If scum orchestrated a quick hammer on someone at e-2 are they not just handing us the easy win since we only need to send 2 of them to hell?
Also it’s weird to me that you were focusing on ox making e-2 quickly when you were also at e-2 at the time and in fact still are?
Of course you can change that, by defending the points levied against you or doing some scumhunting?
Ps I went back to iso you to see if your done these things, you offered some defence of “technically” and said you meant you were NAI for looking at “technical” reasons but that’s not how the word is used in context so this stinks of trying to cover up a mistake to me
Like how can “technically NAI” mean “NAI for technical speculation”???
Also I saw this
You put ox at e-2 or at least thought you did and now only later have you come back to say putting them at e-2 was shaky and too quick???In post 55, Arko wrote: I think that might be E-2 By the way, let them breath for some time before voting them.
Ranger like wtf why do you townread this?
VOTE: arko
Pedit: E-2 again-
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Stop
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I don't want you to die before ELO, I think your posts this page have been very towny.In post 192, Oclaxian Empire wrote: I don't care about this game currently, because Grim had the primary stake in playing the game.
I think you're scum. I don't like any of your posting, and I especially don't like how you're trying to defend Arko.
I think you should always die before ELO, and I think we should always die before ELO.
I agree with you about that post of Ranger's being scummy, but for a different reason.
I think if Ranger had a super strong townread on Arko where they townread basically every post Arko has made this game, I think they would open with that and not the associative read of you two not being together.-
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This isn't true, though, right after you made your post that Ox was asking about, they questioned you about Arko being town, not the associative read.In post 200, Ranger wrote:
My readslists demonstrate evolution in thought.In post 196, Vanderscamp wrote:I don't believe that you have individual townreads on all of those Arko posts.
I clearly had reason to believe Arko was town, or else Arko wouldn't have been at the top.
You have a misunderstanding of my brain neurology then.In post 199, Vanderscamp wrote:I think if Ranger had a super strong townread on Arko where they townread basically every post Arko has made this game, I think they would open with that and not the associative read of you two not being together.
Which was I asked about first?
I was asked about the interactions with Oclixian Empire first, so I answered that first.
In post 149, Ranger wrote:
Well for a start you're not scum with Arko so if you're scum, Arko's not.In post 121, Oclaxian Empire wrote:why do u not think arko?
But even if you're town, Arko's the towniest slot in the game to me rn. I vibe hard with Arko.-
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If you're trying to say you were responding to a post someone made earlier in the game when responding to Ox asking about your Arko read, then sure, but I have no idea why you wouldn't have put that in the big ranking post you made that Ox was responding to.-
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I don't understand these receipts because the post I'm talking about is #149.In post 201, Ranger wrote:
Receipts:In post 200, Ranger wrote:
My readslists demonstrate evolution in thought.In post 196, Vanderscamp wrote:I don't believe that you have individual townreads on all of those Arko posts.
I clearly had reason to believe Arko was town, or else Arko wouldn't have been at the top.
You have a misunderstanding of my brain neurology then.In post 199, Vanderscamp wrote:I think if Ranger had a super strong townread on Arko where they townread basically every post Arko has made this game, I think they would open with that and not the associative read of you two not being together.
Which was I asked about first?
I was asked about the interactions with Oclixian Empire first, so I answered that first.
121 was the first time I was asked about the interaction. (The context behind it was the votes on Oclixian Empire; those votes included Arko.)
I stated Arko was the towniest slot in the game off of their content (not interactions,content) in 176. Wording is important; if Arko's interactions were the basis of that read I would have specified. (The post literally said I thought Arko's content was townseparately frominteractions.)
The next time was 170. Ox-Arko interactions, not Arko content.
THEN 173. Oc-Arko interactions, PLUS Arko content. Which is how I responded.
I answer things by and large in their chronological order.
I was asked about the interaction before I was asked to explain the read.
So I explained the interaction before I explained the read.
Both were quite apparent from the start. I was rather unambiguous.
Maybe we're talking about different posts?-
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I also don't really agree with "evolution of thought" for your Arko reads.
Like, maybe in the sense that the words you're choosing to explain the read are slightly different?
But you aren't going into any detail about your reasoning, you're just calling all of his individual posts towny with different wording.
Like, I could take your explanations for your reads, choose a random player, and say the same thing about all of their posts and it could apply to them too.
Not that that's necessarily super scummy!
I can believe having Arko as a top town this game.
What I don't believe is that you think every single one of those posts you quoted is individually towny, I don't think Arko's posts deserve that, and the reasoning you did give wasn't very compelling.
I think it's more likely you're either lying or TMIing the read, it just feels way too strong to be real.-
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VOTE: Ranger-
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I think you're the towniest player in the game so far.In post 208, Oclaxian Empire wrote:
Kori: I think we as a slot should be killed before ELO, or at least before Judgement Day. The only exception is if you think I obv!town so hard that I can never be scum, and I remain in the game to further narrow down the scumpool, in which case - I could see that, and I would agree with the sentiment, but I still think as a slot, we should be sorted and sent offIn post 199, Vanderscamp wrote:
I don't want you to die before ELO, I think your posts this page have been very towny.In post 192, Oclaxian Empire wrote: I don't care about this game currently, because Grim had the primary stake in playing the game.
I think you're scum. I don't like any of your posting, and I especially don't like how you're trying to defend Arko.
I think you should always die before ELO, and I think we should always die before ELO.
I agree with you about that post of Ranger's being scummy, but for a different reason.
I think if Ranger had a super strong townread on Arko where they townread basically every post Arko has made this game, I think they would open with that and not the associative read of you two not being together.beforethat point.
Also, is your scumread on Ranger because of the bolded?
(I also have some time before I go V/LA today and tomorrow, so I'm gonna try to make use of that time. I got some notes from Grim on gamestate that I can post later today if anyone wants them.)
I don't see anything bolded.-
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I reread this, you're right that Ox was probably asking about the associative read.In post 214, Ranger wrote:
That would not surprise me. Given I'm the one who wrote my posts tho, I trust my view on them more than yours.In post 204, Vanderscamp wrote:Maybe we're talking about different posts?
That was a question about the associative, not a question about Arko being town.In post 202, Vanderscamp wrote:This isn't true, though, right after you made your post that Ox was asking about, they questioned you about Arko being town, not the associative read.
I was asked why I didn't think Arko's vote on Oclaxian Empire was scum.
That wasn't a question about Arko's alignment.
That was a question about Arko's association with Oclaxian Empire.
The context was "Oclaxian Empire voters contain scum".
I specified 'maybe so, but not Arko'.
I was asked why not Arko.
I wasn't asked why Arko was town, or why Arko wasn't scum.
I was specifically asked why Arko wasn't scum voting Oclaxian Empire.
I answered the question given.
Again--if you think differently, you don't understand my brain neurology.
I don't have a problem at all with your approach to giving your townreads or the amount that you've talked about them.
My default is readslists without commentary.In post 203, Vanderscamp wrote:I have no idea why you wouldn't have put that in the big ranking post you made that Ox was responding to.
I add commentary when I think it pertinent, for things worth commenting on.
19/80/81 contain zero commentary.
82 contains one comment, disagreeing with the BloodB0t town callout.
86 is my first substantive post.
Then 119.
And then in 120 it was back to one comment, specifying I believe Arko wasn't scum on Oclaxian Empire. (A read previously talked about per 119.)
And more commentary in 149.
I comment on things worth responding to, as they pop up. I'm not inclined to react to nonexistent content.
Nobody asked me to explain my Arko townread until later. I explained it as soon as it was requested.
People did ask me to explain my "Arko is not scum with Oclaxian Empire" take. I explained each time it was asked.
If you take umbrage with my minimalism, there's a simple fix; ask and engage me. The fault doesn't lie with me for not inquiring into my posts.
Yes?In post 205, Vanderscamp wrote:But you aren't going into any detail about your reasoning, you're just calling all of his individual posts towny with different wording.
That's still evolution in read. It's taking new information in. The new information might be reworded of prior info, which results in...
...Arko being my top townread,
Changing to being my top townread,
Changing to being my top townread,
Changing to being my top townread.
+Town actions build off of each other. One town action builds off of previous town actions.
Arko's posting has been +town throughout the game.
I also did explain my Arko read beyond using vibes though. Solving in 26 was actually +town specifically by dividing the scum up into "one not posted, two which have". That gives tangible analysis and the beginning of sorting.
It specifies 2 scum in {Arko, KawaiiKame, Oclaxian Empire, Vanderscamp, Aisa, AurorusVox, Ranger, Bellaphant} and 1 scum in...
{BloodB0t}.
My problem with you is that I don't believe your townread on Arko is real.
For example, this post you just quoted, "tangible analysis?"
Either you've only played with the worst scum in the world, or #26 is the kind of thing that can be replicated extremely easily as scum.
I really just don't believe that all of these similarly generic posts from Arko are posts that you think are all towny.
I don't agree, I could point to any game related post of any player and say I like the sentiment or engagement of it, or say it's coming from a towny place, and it would be just as meaningful.Ranger wrote: I believe that being the last post before going to bed shows an insanely +town mindset, and given followthrough, would allow for further analysis and breakdown of those within, which Arko had already done on page one.
Sure, but that'd make you a liar because those things wouldn't apply to their posts.In post 205, Vanderscamp wrote:Like, I could take your explanations for your reads, choose a random player, and say the same thing about all of their posts and it could apply to them too.
My main point is that I don't believe that you're reading all of the posts you quoted as towny, regardless of the strength of the read, but anyway, i think the lemon's post that it's weird for Arko to put someone at E-2, and then a day later say that we shouldn't be putting people at E-2, is a compelling case and possibly more alignment indicative than any of the posts you've quoted about Arko.Ranger wrote:
You seem to have a very different view of my posts than reality.In post 205, Vanderscamp wrote:What I don't believe is that you think every single one of those posts you quoted is individually towny, I don't think Arko's posts deserve that, and the reasoning you did give wasn't very compelling.
it just feels way too strong to be real.
I've repeatedly stated I'll listen to cases of Arko being scum.
None have responded to my offer.
It's not that Arko is strongly town.
I have Arko as town, but my reads are fluent enough I could be convinced otherwise.
It's that I think thescumreadsare too strong to be real, because nobody has brought forth compelling arguments on Arko.
The burden of proof is on the accuser--not the accused.
The default is a slot (including Arko) being town, and Arko's posts support that to me.
When I feel Arko's posts are towny enough, and the default is town, then it is up to the accusers to convince me otherwise.
Nobody has even tried.
Thoughts on that?-
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I think your case on OE is okay, I don't think it's impossible that it could be a scum TMI post but I'm not sold on the idea that phrasing it like that can only be done with knowledge that you're town.In post 215, Ranger wrote:
Speaking of, I've undertaken that burden and made my accusation.In post 214, Ranger wrote:The burden of proof is on the accuser--not the accused.
Spoiler: my caseIn post 198, Vanderscamp wrote:StopVanderscamp:Why have you not addressed my case?
You've attacked my defense of Arko.
You've been silent about my case on Oclaxian Empire.
In post 213, Aisa wrote:Or maybe it's just my disarming charisma, that happens tooAisa:You've started your more serious reading.
Would you care to comment on my case?
In post 209, AurorusVox wrote:Ranger - what do you make of arko apparently freaking out over e-2 being too soon, when they themselves thought they’d put ox at e-2 earlier in the thread?AurorusVox:Counter-question; what do you make of Oclaxian Empire stating I had 'decided' my reads and 'would not reevaluate' (implying I'm town), rather than 'know and decide not to reevaluate'?
What do you make of Oclaxian Empire's hypocrisy in stating I'm scum regardless of Arko's alignment, when having criticized me for saying Arko was town regardless of Oclaxian Empire's alignment?
I decided about two pages into the game that I'm not going to try to analyze the logic of what OE is saying because I don't think it's going to be very helpful based on my perception of their playstyle. I don't care that OE has been inconsistent because it's likely to me that OE is not a consistent player. Surely you don't expect consistency either?...
More relevantly I think OE's response to your case was very towny, and I think the whole "you need to lim be before LYLO" sounded like a very genuine town reaction. I care more about this than linguistic analysis.-
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Wow, does everything Arko says give you the impression of coming from a town mindset?...In post 216, Ranger wrote:
I don't see any freak-out. 45 is no freak-out. It is responding to the e-2. It is not a freakout. It is commenting on it. Commentary does not a freakout make. Tone-wise I would actually say it's theIn post 209, AurorusVox wrote:Ranger - what do you make of arko apparently freaking out over e-2 being too soon, when they themselves thought they’d put ox at e-2 earlier in the thread?oppositeof a freakout. It's inquiring into Oclaxian Empire's vote in a way I feel was quite town.
It is no sin to have suspicion on a slot after that slot votes you. The handling was the important part.
I don't see hypocrisy in voting Oclaxian Empire up to e-2 when Arko has valid reasons to suspect the slot.
Arko wasn't concerned about being at e-2. Arko was inquiring into Oclaxian Empire's e-2 vote. After the inquiry, Arko came to the conclusion Oclaxian Empire was likely scum in part for the e-2 vote. Arko put Oclaxian Empire to e-2.
There's nothing suspect in that chain of events. It's my opinion it's quite the opposite. I believe that chain of events and that process indicates Arko had a town mindset, approaching from a position of being uninformed and forming an opinion based off the information being generated in-thread.
I'm not sure how to easily link specific posts but #154 is the post that I think Auroros is talking about and gave me pause.-
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Are they good points?In post 257, Aisa wrote:
Yeahhhh you know what, these are good points. Arko gets my townread!In post 177, Ranger wrote:[...]
As for Arko, I've vibed with them from the beginning. First page was just vibes of rvs + liking their mechtalk; the townread started in earnest from 26. Specifically,
I loved this thought process.In post 26, Arko wrote:Also- I'm betting now that one of the non-posters is a sinner. the other 2 are probably within this group of 7 though as you could probably obviously tell.
I liked the engagement in 41.
I liked the sentiment of 43/48/61/65.
54 is an approach I feel comes from a town mindset.
The explanation of 69 is an approach which is nai, but the context of sharing it makes me lean town. (Someone explaining their philosophy is nai in of itself. The context behind explaining the philosophy can be ai, in this case, +town.)
I felt 118 was a good approach upon returning to the thread.
154 is not a scum post.
There's good reason Arko's my top townread.
Near as I can tell, there's no reason for Arko to be scum.
Did you click on any of the posts that Ranger linked to see which posts they were talking about?
This is a genuine question, I'm interested in the answer to this.
I'm interested if you agreed with the reads on all of the individual posts, or just some of them.-
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Pretty null. Vaguely towny in tone but I agree with Vox's case.In post 259, Aisa wrote: What is your read on Arko, Vanders? Am I going to find it somewhere among the posts I haven't read yet?
I think if Ranger is scum their read on Arko is more likely to be scum defending a town than a partner.-
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I think blood is quite towny, I agree with all of what they're saying.-
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This post actually sounds more real than Ranger's stuff, even though you're mostly saying the same stuff.In post 273, Aisa wrote: @Vanders, I see you've answered my question, that's nice and answering this post feels like a very fair trade now!
I did click on the links! Most, not all, admittedly. It's in fact impossible to form an opinion on the case without clicking the links; you tell me if you can judge the words "54 is an approach I feel comes from a town mindset" without knowing what post 54 is.In post 268, Vanderscamp wrote:
Are they good points?In post 257, Aisa wrote:
Yeahhhh you know what, these are good points. Arko gets my townread!In post 177, Ranger wrote:[...]
As for Arko, I've vibed with them from the beginning. First page was just vibes of rvs + liking their mechtalk; the townread started in earnest from 26. Specifically,
I loved this thought process.In post 26, Arko wrote:Also- I'm betting now that one of the non-posters is a sinner. the other 2 are probably within this group of 7 though as you could probably obviously tell.
I liked the engagement in 41.
I liked the sentiment of 43/48/61/65.
54 is an approach I feel comes from a town mindset.
The explanation of 69 is an approach which is nai, but the context of sharing it makes me lean town. (Someone explaining their philosophy is nai in of itself. The context behind explaining the philosophy can be ai, in this case, +town.)
I felt 118 was a good approach upon returning to the thread.
154 is not a scum post.
There's good reason Arko's my top townread.
Near as I can tell, there's no reason for Arko to be scum.
Did you click on any of the posts that Ranger linked to see which posts they were talking about?
This is a genuine question, I'm interested in the answer to this.
I'm interested if you agreed with the reads on all of the individual posts, or just some of them.
I thought most of them weregreatpoints. I agreed about most of the things Ranger pointed out being town-indicative, and that's pretty rare. (The embarrassment I will go through if Arko turns out to be scum though! ) The bits I disagree with are 118 and 154, I can't decide whether they're town indicative or scum indicative yet, and though I haven't read the discussion about post 154 in detail yet, if Arko has contradicted himself a bit that's always a little worrying. Then again I don't think inconsistency is always scummy. We'll see.
But even the fact that you're disagreeing with some of the points feels more genuine than Ranger's approach, which seems more like assuming Arko is town and working backwards.-
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Why?In post 281, Ranger wrote:
Hypocrite.In post 270, Vanderscamp wrote:Pretty null. Vaguely towny in tone
I don't think he's made a dozen posts that are towny in tone, if that's what you're referring to.-
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Do you really think I don't know the difference between those things?In post 285, Ranger wrote:
Is this your issue???In post 278, Vanderscamp wrote:which seems more like assuming Arko is town and working backwards.
That I'm assuming Arko is town and working backwards???
I thought I made it clear.
Everyone is town by default.Yes, I assume Arko is town, because I assume everyone is town initially.
My readslists are fluent and everyone starts at null.
But while everyone starts with areadof null, I stillassumetown.
I'm not sure how to explain that if you don't get the conceptual difference between assuming town and reading town and knowing town. The three are all separate ideas.
{AurorusVox, Aisa}
{Bellaphant}
{Arko, Vanderscamp}
{KawaiiKame}
{BloodB0t}
{Oclaxian Empire}
The way you're talking about Arko is not coming from a perspective of assuming he's town by default.
You're pointing out multiple posts of Arko's that you think are actively towny, that I and others doubt are alignment indicative enough for you to be able to get the reads that you're claiming.
It looks to me more like you are scum justifying a read on someone, than someone coming to those conclusions naturally.-
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Yeah, I was expecting to have a scum read on Aisa for it but their response was fine.In post 295, Bellaphant wrote:In post 268, Vanderscamp wrote:
Are they good points?In post 257, Aisa wrote:
Yeahhhh you know what, these are good points. Arko gets my townread!In post 177, Ranger wrote:[...]
As for Arko, I've vibed with them from the beginning. First page was just vibes of rvs + liking their mechtalk; the townread started in earnest from 26. Specifically,
I loved this thought process.In post 26, Arko wrote:Also- I'm betting now that one of the non-posters is a sinner. the other 2 are probably within this group of 7 though as you could probably obviously tell.
I liked the engagement in 41.
I liked the sentiment of 43/48/61/65.
54 is an approach I feel comes from a town mindset.
The explanation of 69 is an approach which is nai, but the context of sharing it makes me lean town. (Someone explaining their philosophy is nai in of itself. The context behind explaining the philosophy can be ai, in this case, +town.)
I felt 118 was a good approach upon returning to the thread.
154 is not a scum post.
There's good reason Arko's my top townread.
Near as I can tell, there's no reason for Arko to be scum.
Did you click on any of the posts that Ranger linked to see which posts they were talking about?
This is a genuine question, I'm interested in the answer to this.
I'm interested if you agreed with the reads on all of the individual posts, or just some of them.
I really like this, mainly because I am now skimming rangers posts;)-
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Saying "vibed obvtown" then reevaluating seems more towny than notIn post 298, Bellaphant wrote: I can't work out my read on aisa at all: I thought vibed obv!town, then I was weirdes out about them being so strange about granting a town read, then town again, then I disliked their jumping in fully with ranger, but their response was vibe town again. The thing that's bothering me about their recent posting though is that it feels quite ...self conscious?-
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I was talking about you, I thought saying that was town from you.In post 304, Bellaphant wrote: Oh, I thought he was talking about you?
The post means that I liked Vander's Sus of you because it felt organic because I was not fully reading rangers posts by then. It means him Ans I are flowing the same, rather than me particularly liking it as Sus against you, if that makes sense-
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This reads REALLY bad, I feel like it's way too late in the game to care about these questions.In post 305, Kowahbunga wrote:
Why do you think it feels town sided?In post 301, Bellaphant wrote: Fair, think I'm just in my head a bit about the set up, as it seems fairly town sided but with slightly less info to go on than normal? I don't think I've played nightless before.
This just reeks of fake hunting.-
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Because I don't think that's a very relevant thing to discuss at this stage of the game. Like, Bella could be scum but completely genuine about thoughts relating to the setup, so I'm not sure what kind of answer you're looking for.In post 329, Kowahbunga wrote:
I think you're reaching for something here. My question was in response to a post only 4 posts before the one you have an issue with. What's wrong with me trying to engage with someone and have a conversation with them? You know I just replaced in? Besides, I personally didn't like the fact they feel it's townsided or the fact they wanted to articulate that message to the players in this game.In post 318, Vanderscamp wrote:
This reads REALLY bad, I feel like it's way too late in the game to care about these questions.In post 305, Kowahbunga wrote:
Why do you think it feels town sided?In post 301, Bellaphant wrote: Fair, think I'm just in my head a bit about the set up, as it seems fairly town sided but with slightly less info to go on than normal? I don't think I've played nightless before.
This just reeks of fake hunting.-
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I see kowabunga was just hammered, that seems fine, my biggest concern is that Ranger did it.-
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Is it possible this is a good faith argument from you?...In post 370, Ranger wrote:
Still. You agree with my take (In post 292, Vanderscamp wrote:
Why?In post 281, Ranger wrote:
Hypocrite.In post 270, Vanderscamp wrote:Pretty null. Vaguely towny in tone
I don't think he's made a dozen posts that are towny in tone, if that's what you're referring to.vaguely,towny, intone) in strength and reason.
Yet attack me for having that same read.
If you compiled a list of towny-tone posts from him it'd be nearly identical to mine.
I repeat: hypocrite.In post 293, Vanderscamp wrote:The way you're talking about Arko is not coming from a perspective of assuming he's town by default.
You're pointing out multiple posts of Arko's that you think are actively towny, that I and others doubt are alignment indicative enough for you to be able to get the reads that you're claiming.
My read is no different than yours.
I formed it from reading the thread and coming to a conclusion.
Nothing more.
I've explained my stance and how I came to those conclusions.
I explained why it was not strong. (Explicitly, it's a mixture of vibes, gut, tone, and lean. Not the basis of a strong read.Strongesttownread, but notstrong.)
You're accusing me of doing something you're doing yourself.
If I compiled a list of towny tone posts there would probably be like three of them maximum, and probably not even any of the ones you quoted since I think he had townier tone more recently.
The fact that we have a similar read on a player doesn't mean that my reasons are exactly the same, or that I have to like your reasons.
And I feel like that should be incredibly obvious so I'm having a hard time believing you believe this.-
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Ok
I would have been interested to know what I would have thought of kowabungah had flipped scum in terms of Ranger's alignment!-
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Yeah, no chance, I think you should just be snap limmed D3.In post 440, Ranger wrote:
Myself.In post 434, Doctor Drew wrote:Ranger, who is your 100% totally town guaranteed no lie?
I've no read comparable in strength to my read on Ranger.
(If you meant who my strongest townread is, that'd be Aisa tho.)
VOTE: Ranger-
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In post 435, Ranger wrote:
You seem to have strayed from my argument. I'm not sure how to engage when you're talking about something different than the original point.In post 433, Vanderscamp wrote:I'm having a hard time believing you believe this.
Responding to this:
"If you compiled a list of towny-tone posts from him it'd be nearly identical to mine."
"My read is no different than yours."
This is not remotely true and I think you know this given what I've said about your read on him.
Idk what your argument or original point is supposed to be, but I don't believe you believe either of these things.-
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VOTE: Vanderscamp
My legacy if this happens is to kill Ranger-
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I could be wrong, but I don't like just about anything they've posted.-
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My vote if not for myself would be OE, I think the only way that one is getting through given the state of the thread would be if it's incorrect.-
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My most likely town outside of myself is OEIn post 454, Doctor Drew wrote:
I need you to walk me through this postIn post 453, Vanderscamp wrote: My vote if not for myself would be OE, I think the only way that one is getting through given the state of the thread would be if it's incorrect.
I could be misreading the thread but I think that's a non-consensus opinion that's likely to not get very many votes.
If it did get 5 votes, it's probably not because 5 town are pushing it.
Like, I definitely could be wrong on Ranger, but even if I think Ranger is like 25% town, I'm 0% to vote them right now because that vote is never succeeding in getting five pure town votes given current reads.-
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The only saving grace is that scum can't really out themselves to send a town to hell, because the heaven angels have the chance to rescue it the next day. That shouldn't be too hard if it was done obviously.-
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I'm much more worried about sending a sinner to heaven today, I think that will make the game much harder to win than ending up at 4-3.-
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Sorry, busy this weekend but am still alive, will post real content soon-
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In the hell phase tomorrow, even though it's 4-3, scum can't really out themselves to hammer town.In post 468, Bellaphant wrote:
Sorry, can you reword this?In post 466, Vanderscamp wrote: The only saving grace is that scum can't really out themselves to send a town to hell, because the heaven angels have the chance to rescue it the next day. That shouldn't be too hard if it was done obviously.-
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I think this is a great post, I agree with it.In post 471, Aisa wrote: Ok, list of reasons to TR Bella, I think this might be my last post before I become less available.
Reason 1: general vibes / tone, this will be more convincing to me than to others but that’s ok
I don’t feel either way about the reasons she gives here but I like that this seems to show depth in her thought process.In post 170, Bellaphant wrote:
Something just feels really inorganic? The auto townreads felt strange for doing what seemed very surface level set up stuff, rather than 'yay, town -sided!' or whatever, and then the convo with Ox again didn't vibe right: I ended up tr-ing the ox slot ans not feeling anything more about arko, which tends to be one of my red flags for scum: they end up feeling 'grey'. I need to think about rangers interactions with arko too.In post 165, BloodB0t wrote: UNVOTE: On re-evaluation, I don't think OE is scum. Seems quite townie.
@Bellephant: Can you elaborate on your thought process behind voting Arko?
I think she’s waffling on me for reasons that it’s natural to waffle on. Again, I think I just liked the fact she bothered to express this read.In post 298, Bellaphant wrote: I can't work out my read on aisa at all: I thought vibed obv!town, then I was weirdes out about them being so strange about granting a town read, then town again, then I disliked their jumping in fully with ranger, but their response was vibe town again. The thing that's bothering me about their recent posting though is that it feels quite ...self conscious?
I think this may be the towniest post in her ISO. If I were scum trying to fake a townslip, “I’d been looking for two scum because of all the talk of pairs” wouldn’t be anywhere near the top of my list of excuses. So I think this post shows a very towny perspective.In post 346, Bellaphant wrote:
Yeah, I think it was because of the talk of pairs and theatre? Ox/arko, arko/ranger, etc. I am not good at mech at the best of tinwsIn post 310, BloodB0t wrote: I think the setup is townsided because it has a history of 5 town wins and 1 mafia win. I wouldn't be able to tell by looking at the mechanics of it. That being said, I'm not sure what we gain by knowing it's townsided. Does that mean we shouldn't try as hard?
I don't have much to say, other than to ask for your thoughts behind:In post 299, Bellaphant wrote: Bloodbot, struggling to read you too: can you throw a question or thought at me?
I'm looking forward to Kowahbunga's thoughts on the game.In post 308, Bellaphant wrote: NGL I'd kinda been looking for two scum.
I like “you’ve been filed in my head as…”, again this raises the probability (to me) that Bella has all these reads and thoughts living in her head and that she’s not just making them up when she has to.In post 386, Bellaphant wrote: Hey, do you want to throw a few questions my way? You've kinda been filed in my head as 'kinda shares my reads' and I haven't massively examined that.
I want feedback on this post, please!-
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I've had Aisa/Bella mostly null, I think the towncase from Aisa is quite strong and probably accurate if Aisa is scum.In post 472, AurorusVox wrote: Asia, the Bella stuff I can at least understand your pov on it. I’m kinda half letting my townread on you guide my other reads cos I’ve found it quite hard to get my head into the game and found myself skimming a bit.
Vanders - what’s your take on Asia/Bella?
I find the drew vote on me a little suspect like dude I was thirsting for arko to be limmed most of yesterday are you trying to get inside my head lol
Self voting is logically the best play here but we’d get nowhere with it so we do need people who aren’t getting to heaven to not self vote. Problem is that puts the power into the scummiest peoples hands.
Could I propose something akin to a draft where we assume everyone has a self vote and therefore we need to secure 4 supporting votes for a person to go to heaven?
So like everyone would say who they would send to heaven other than themselves and we see if anyone hits 4 that way? Eg I would send Vanders or Asia.
And failing that like a tournament style where like we all propose one person to send and anyone who gets 0 votes gets removed and then we go again with anyone with 0-1 votes removed, then 0-2 etc until we have found the right person?
I just feel like the risk otherwise is people voting themselves and not being as willing to change…
Bella i see you asking me to engage you and that’s fine maybe you can start with telling me what you think of my plan above??-
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This is a pretty interesting statement.In post 491, Ranger wrote:
Not great.In post 465, Bellaphant wrote:How do you feel about Drew's posting since the flip?
If there was scum on the D1 wagon, it was Drew. I'm not getting town vibes rn at all.
What do you mean if there was scum on the wagon?
There are three scum and four people who were not on the wagon, and one of them flipped town.
I wasn't voting Kowabungah and you think I'm town, right?
I know from your POV both wagons would be town, so why are you phrasing it as if scum would be unlikely to be on a 5p Kowabungah one?-
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