Guns & Roses VI [Game Over]

[Dunnstral]

With so many roses, there doesn't seem to be a need to be secretive about claims this time, maybe.

[Dunnstral]

lets let the mech wiz take a look at it

LETS GO TITUS AND GAMMA

FORMULATE.

What are your thoughts?

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: malakittens
Still confused and kinda bothered by the suggestion that I’m skilled with mech, I can handle it but I would not say I’ve been pivotal to helping win a game that way

How does that make them mafia as opposed to just being wrong?

[Dunnstral]

i do not think there are any advantages to doing so

maybe

i mean i could see some but
without trackers or anything like that there is no way to prove someone could visit if we have less then four people claim gun

The advantage is that we know there are 10 roses and 4 guns:

If mafia fake claim rose we know we can trust the gun claims

If mafia true claim gun they can be held accountable for where they are targeting

The downsides to claiming is that mafia can then target the guns. And the knowledge of guns today may not be helpful.

[Dunnstral]

I think massclaim is good, so we force everyone who claimed gun to shot each other, because i don't believe Mafia didnt Went full 3 gun fun.

Wheme is conftown, unless atleast one gun claims.

I never would go for that if I have a gun. I would shoot my reads period.

I smell you don't have it.

I might. I might not. Why are you speculating?

Because i have nothing to do.

Likelyhood you picked rose as town are 90%.
Maybe higher.

It seems you started this conversation assuming that Titus is town by saying you believe they are a rose. I think this is potentially weird, you have a strange perspective here.

[Dunnstral]

:/
I just stated scum can also win if all town roses are dead
That’s been a thing in every run of this setup

I've never played this setup before but it just feels silly to me to pick rose as mafia - I'd pick gun every time

I am inclined to agree with this. Extra kills are more powerful for mafia than for town. On the other hand I've played a run of this setup where town only had 3 roses at the start and it felt pretty doomed.

[Dunnstral]

it is kind of pointless to speculate on what optimal scum strategy is because if we only have one claimed gun then we know its three scum guns versus 10 town roses and a town gun right?

We have not mass claimed

[Dunnstral]

I believe Aristeia has made it clear that they think Enchant is mafia because they believe Enchant would have picked a gun.

[Dunnstral]

Why would you shoot Wheme?

[Dunnstral]

Actually... if you are a town gun, why are you claiming instead of just shooting at night?

[Dunnstral]

yeah, I don't understand the drive for the D1 claims, seems senseless to me

At this point it is likely too late

The gun claims are likely either both town or 1 town 1 mafia

Mafia know everybody else is a rose

Town /maybe/ has 1 more gun hidden, assuming one of the current claims is mafia.

[Dunnstral]

Actually... if you are a town gun, why are you claiming instead of just shooting at night?

BeCaUsE EnChAnT NeVeR pIcK rOsE aS tOwN.

I TRIED to hide until i get my shot, i just realised that if i get wagoned to E-1, people just disbelieve me and it's blatant i am lying anyway.


So if pick rose, everyone push me for picking rose and when i do pick gun, everyone still push me, because they can't bear mind that i do have gun.

Literally unplayable.

I do believe only 1 person was pushing you for that.

[Dunnstral]

Why would you shoot Wheme?

Cuz i am only town gun.

I don't believe one scum picked rose.

Wheme could be a n1 rose baiting the mafia kill. They claimed right after someone said a gun claim would be a defenseless confirmed town, if I remember correctly. I don't think mafia would claim to be a gun right away because then they can be shot by the town guns if they don't believe them.

I don't like to have to spell that out but if you are the only town gun you getting wagoned is bad and you shooting at wheme is bad.

[Dunnstral]

i think you are mafia w/ enchant

This seems unlikely

[Dunnstral]

Enchant picking gun is NIA for me
I don’t really see why people are scumrrading enchant for it

Can you point to somebody scumreading Enchant for picking gun.

[Dunnstral]

Mmm
Why is Dunnstral scum?

Reluctance to call people town. Weak thoughts but still there.

I love to call people town as mafia though. It is when I am town that I hold a higher bar for people.

[Dunnstral]

Regarding 261 by Malakittens I don't think Enchant was ever scumread for "picking gun". I do believe the reasons were: "enchant is claiming rose but would pick gun as town", "enchant is being deceptive", and "enchant is a flailing wolf". In light of that I find post 261 pretty suspicious.

[Dunnstral]

only town can be roses, right?

I find this thought hard to believe based on the conversations in thread before this. People have been discussing whether mafia would pick Rose or not before this point.

[Dunnstral]

only town can be roses, right?

I find this thought hard to believe based on the conversations in thread before this. People have been discussing whether mafia would pick Rose or not before this point.

You find this post hard to believe even with the surrounding context?

oh shit im here reading omg

There are 10

Roses

in this game.

oh wow, im liking these odds

im sorry but my brain is effectively blocking out everything about setup spec

Disclaimer, I recently came down from mania and I'm having a not-so-smooth transition to a new med that will likely be changed again

And it's mid semester PhD program

So full thinking capacity is on hold

I thought my level of knowledge was conveyed lucidly

Hm, now that you've pointed it out you seem to have been near the start of the thread when you said that. I had assumed you had caught up. That does make it believable to me, as you wouldn't have seen the discussion around it.

[Dunnstral]

Dunn

, is it fair to say your posts are very passive and provide little to the discussion even though there's a decent amount of volume to them?

No I don't believe that is correct. I do believe my posts move the discussion forward. They're not passive because they are asking new things.

[Dunnstral]

Hey I have been busy recently and haven't had time for mafia. I'll read up.

[Dunnstral]

Right away I'm seeing that Mala never answered about the Enchant picking gun thing

[Dunnstral]

im not saying claim what night you are a rose

i am saying claim whether you are a rose or a gun

the goal of the game is not to make sure a town gun gets to fire

it is to eliminate the three mafia players

if you are a town rose and theres only one town gun and you get ccd you r basically wasting a town day in hopes of maybe burning off a scum bullet

it is beyond silly to sacrifice tempo to maybe gain a missed nightkill

like you seem to think the goal of town roses is to get shot on their assigned night and town guns is to survive to fire off their shot

it is not

the goal of this game is to kill all three mafia

any confusion you cause trying to hit style points is just added work and goes against the town goal of killing the mafia.

This is all correct I don't know why you are facing so much resistance in thread

[Dunnstral]

more enchant votes only comment i have

This is the post that made me decide to go for Cakez over Ari or Ali. Ari started the push and has specific, very established reasons. Ali was engaged a bit in the claim talk and wanting to get rid of guns. Cakez piled on more so for meta'ing Enchant it seems. The vote also came in not long after Ali's. Maybe there was hope there'd be more momentum for a wagon to start that didn't. To me his vote was opportunistic and not from the same place as Ari or Ali.

At this point I'm not making a case on Cakez, I'm just trying a different direction than Enchant. I'll say it again so I'm not mis-represented. I am NOT saying I think Enchant is town and the gun claims are interesting choices to make. I tend to agree with Ali's statement that guns have to die at some point. My stance is just to save them for later.

I like this post

[Dunnstral]

I eluded to this in my earlier post today but I scumread Dunnstral because I feel like a lot of their posts are a regurgitation of known information or what someone else said, which doesn't strike me to be on par with a player of their caliber.

This is simply not true.

[Dunnstral]

Additionally, I have seen how people act in Among Us,

Eyeroll

[Dunnstral]

Spoiler:

With so many roses, there doesn't seem to be a need to be secretive about claims this time, maybe.

Assumption "All mafia and some townie picked guns" asking for self.

Picking rose as scum is hard to justify.

Dunn

and

Enchant

open with similar themes,

Dunn

saying there isn't a need to be secretive and

Enchant

goes on to push for massclaim after making an assumption that mafia cannot be rose.

VOTE: Celebloki

Bad vibes

Noted

VOTE: malakittens
Still confused and kinda bothered by the suggestion that I’m skilled with mech, I can handle it but I would not say I’ve been pivotal to helping win a game that way

How does that make them mafia as opposed to just being wrong?

+1 good question actually

i do not think there are any advantages to doing so

maybe

i mean i could see some but
without trackers or anything like that there is no way to prove someone could visit if we have less then four people claim gun

The advantage is that we know there are 10 roses and 4 guns:

If mafia fake claim rose we know we can trust the gun claims

If mafia true claim gun they can be held accountable for where they are targeting

The downsides to claiming is that mafia can then target the guns. And the knowledge of guns today may not be helpful.

I like this point arguing against massclaim.

I think massclaim is good, so we force everyone who claimed gun to shot each other, because i don't believe Mafia didnt Went full 3 gun fun.

Wheme is conftown, unless atleast one gun claims.

Enchant

posits

Wheme

conftown with the mafia = all gun route, and relays a plan for all the guns to circle kill the other... I don't understand the town-motivation behind this. I know with

Alisae

there's an explicit scumread outside of their idea about how guns function in this game, but this feels like it could be

Enchant

wanting role information to tailor potential NKs. The town-motivation is less straight-forward if any is present, especially because the

Wheme

townread here was false.

I think massclaim is good, so we force everyone who claimed gun to shot each other, because i don't believe Mafia didnt Went full 3 gun fun.

Wheme is conftown, unless atleast one gun claims.

I never would go for that if I have a gun. I would shoot my reads period.

I smell you don't have it.

This actually does ping a bit like rolefishing, tbh. Kind of wondering if

Bulge

picked up on that.

I think after Wheme claimed gun, all 3 other guns are mafia and it's all pointless.

Weird logic loop, even with this read being false, it's positing that only town gun would claim.

i want to move off rvs but no one has scumpinged me yet so someone do that please

Fluffy posting

i do think the guns/roses claim discussion over the past few pages has been generally town-motivated

I didn't agree when I first read that

ok so why did you decide to pick rose?

Because it implues mafia need to remove me at some point.

The post preceding the lie that

Ari

caught.

I think massclaim is good, so we force everyone who claimed gun to shot each other, because i don't believe Mafia didnt Went full 3 gun fun.

Wheme is conftown, unless atleast one gun claims.

I never would go for that if I have a gun. I would shoot my reads period.

I smell you don't have it.

I might. I might not. Why are you speculating?

Because i have nothing to do.

Likelyhood you picked rose as town are 90%.
Maybe higher.

It seems you started this conversation assuming that Titus is town by saying you believe they are a rose. I think this is potentially weird, you have a strange perspective here.

See, this is actually a take I agree with on

Dunnstral

, their diction just feels off to me. I'd figure a townie would have a more articulate thought than "strange perspective" and actually do something with teeth here, like a vote or harder push.

:/
I just stated scum can also win if all town roses are dead
That’s been a thing in every run of this setup

I've never played this setup before but it just feels silly to me to pick rose as mafia - I'd pick gun every time

I am inclined to agree with this. Extra kills are more powerful for mafia than for town. On the other hand I've played a run of this setup where town only had 3 roses at the start and it felt pretty doomed.

The reasoning here makes sense, even though I disagree with the very premise that mafia are always going to be guns here.

The other game with 3 roses was a mafia win, after all.

I thought enchants answer was a banger

Ima shoot Ali I think

Wondering where

Ali

came from here.

Ok you got me i did in fact pick gun.

I pretended i townread wheme, so i can shot wheme in the face without being shot back but i guess it's blatant i always pick gun.


Bruh game.


So yeah. Crosskill?

The post where

Enchant's

stance on his claim and

Wheme

completely 180

VOTE: enchant
looks like a flailing wolf to me, this feels notably different from just normal Enchant scumminess

Feels slightly superficial read here, like I can see anyone coming up with this as a justification to vote

Enchant

. Am I being too harsh on

Cakez

?

Of course you can't let me shot wheme, until she wastes gun on some random townie, uhum.

I see this as attempt to powerlim me so Wheme can say "oh i joked i am in fact rose" on D2.

Posits that

Wheme

will waste a gun, but not that they're scum?

Also says that the votes are an attempt to powerlim so

Wheme

can say they lied about their claim... I am wondering what made

Enchant

want to do massclaim if they presumed who would claim is lying.

Why would you shoot Wheme?

Fair question, I'm not sure an

Enchant

-partner would give attention to this publically

Why would you shoot Wheme?

Cuz i am only town gun.

I don't believe one scum picked rose.

Same justification, only town gun can be

Enchant

... which is ???? Completely wild assessment to me. How can nobody else conceive the idea of town-gun if they themselves do?

Actually... if you are a town gun, why are you claiming instead of just shooting at night?

BeCaUsE EnChAnT NeVeR pIcK rOsE aS tOwN.

I TRIED to hide until i get my shot, i just realised that if i get wagoned to E-1, people just disbelieve me and it's blatant i am lying anyway.


So if pick rose, everyone push me for picking rose and when i do pick gun, everyone still push me, because they can't bear mind that i do have gun.

Literally unplayable.

It's not about the gun, it's about how you interacted regarding the claims and your reads.

yeah, I don't understand the drive for the D1 claims, seems senseless to me

At this point it is likely too late

The gun claims are likely either both town or 1 town 1 mafia

Mafia know everybody else is a rose

Town /maybe/ has 1 more gun hidden, assuming one of the current claims is mafia.

Hmmmmm...

On one hand, I like this post superficially because

Dunn

is giving a very real possibility of TvT here. But they aren't really doing much to caution the current suspicion alongside this. I also wonder if this post can come from an informed perspective.

I think enchant is town

K.

i think you are mafia w/ enchant

This seems unlikely

Tbh,

Dunn

, how has your

Wheme/Enchant

reads evolved and do you really think an

Enchant

flip is good here?

Personally I still think we forget about an Enchant or Wheme wagon until D2 and instead anyone pushing for an Enchant or Wheme wagon are good fodder for a wagon.

VOTE: SirCakez

Why?

Like I mentioned before, I don't feel that

Celebloki

said much to suggest

Enchant/Wheme

cannot be scum, so this feels like a purposeful counterwagon. The intentions behind that are less clear.

Regarding 261 by Malakittens I don't think Enchant was ever scumread for "picking gun". I do believe the reasons were: "enchant is claiming rose but would pick gun as town", "enchant is being deceptive", and "enchant is a flailing wolf". In light of that I find post 261 pretty suspicious.

DO YOU GUYS WANT TO FIND ANSWER URSELF OR WANT MY HELP

Yes

Ali’s reasoning is very weird

Still want you to explain this

I have so many thoughts I don’t want to share I am a genius

K...

Wheme's

posts aren't really giving much and that's intentional. Really helping me sort that slot... /s

VOTE: The Bulge

Interesting, I wonder where this came from, and also where the feels on

Celebloki

dissipated, was it because

Celebloki

wanted to counterwagon him and

Enchant

?

Is this your defense of eliminating

Wheme

over yourself D1...?

If you eliminate Wheme, who i will shot?!

Just let crosskill happen, fools.

Never convinced by your reasoning for killing

Wheme

Idk, Titus maybe.

K? More focus on

Titus

Enchant picking gun is NIA for me
I don’t really see why people are scumrrading enchant for it

Can you point to somebody scumreading Enchant for picking gun.

Mind meld
No one thinks that's why Enchant is scummy.

Cakez

parroting

Dunn

on something I actually had the similar perception as

Celeblok

I feel like Enchant and Wheme both being scum is almost like *too easy*? Like I feel like they would have solved this shit in scum chat or something by now. And they are both a little naturally scummy I think

I never really like these types of posts. It always feels like an easy out to backpedal when a read is correct or incorrect when convenient. The whole idea about scum solving this in their chat is WIFOM. The benefit of the doubt that

Cakez

supposes here is muddled by the previous statements, so I'm left feeling less sure on what

Cakez's

actual read of

Enchant

and

Wheme

and their wagons are.

Ali want to vote bulge with me

Another

Bulge

reference with no clear prompt from the other ISOs I've grouped here.

So Taly you go over my iso here. Where am I repeating what other people are saying here?

As for your response to 205 I never called Enchant mafia, never voted for Enchant. I see now that Alisae has claimed gun so that may change as I read up.

[Dunnstral]

Conclusions from 509

- Able to see

Dunn

with some town motive. +Town
- Grievance with

Cakez's

posting strengthens -Town
-

Celebloki

,

Titus

,

Aristeia

,

Alisae

, and

The Bulge

are good next potential ISO groupees. Namely

Celebloki

and

Bulge

at the moment.
-

Wheme

does not make anymore sense to me, except for perhaps why they do not scumread

Celebloki

~Null
- I don't feel my suspicion on

Enchant

was absolved. ~Scum

idk i want both

dunn

and

cakez

flipped, they have failed the vibe check

Huh. What is changing your opinion of me back and forth?

[Dunnstral]

Im struggling to understand why anyone would take a rose and instead wouldnt take a gun

power-wise there's so much more influence in flipping a role than potentially absorbing a kill or two

Most townies should not be wielding an extra kill to be honest.

[Dunnstral]

Dunnstral posted once on wednesday and once on thursday and niether post really bothers to push anything in the game state - just a very one liner comment focussing on talking about someone's comment about himself.

I responded to a notification but didn't have time to read the whole thread.

[Dunnstral]

Is it not obvious I’m not a gun now

Go on

[Dunnstral]

Okay to be fair I thought it was obvious joke but then ppl took it seriously so I was like hmm I can just act like nignt 2 gun maybe mafia kills me night 2

I'm not buying that it was a joke, and if mafia shot you night 2 you would be able to get your own shot off as claimed.

Near the beginning of the game you were asked why you had claimed, and you immediately responded that you thought it had made you clear. Doesn't seem like a joke to me, really. Instead it seems to me that you are now flailing after two people claimed gun after you did.

VOTE: Whemestar

[Dunnstral]

Yes I told Ali that I claimed becuase they said it makes me an ic

Do you really think I believed that it made me an IC?

How is that a joke?

That is what you are claiming.
If you are mafia you wouldn't believe it.

[Dunnstral]

It instead very much looks like a serious claim.

[Dunnstral]

No that wagon should be Dunn for.

Personally I still think we forget about an Enchant or Wheme wagon until D2 and instead anyone pushing for an Enchant or Wheme wagon are good fodder for a wagon.
VOTE: SirCakez

Both of these are good takes I was exactly thinking during my read atp.

Anyone else notice that 221 is just a joke post but pisskop calls it a "good take".

[Dunnstral]

Spoiler:

With so many roses, there doesn't seem to be a need to be secretive about claims this time, maybe.

Assumption "All mafia and some townie picked guns" asking for self.

Picking rose as scum is hard to justify.

Dunn

and

Enchant

open with similar themes,

Dunn

saying there isn't a need to be secretive and

Enchant

goes on to push for massclaim after making an assumption that mafia cannot be rose.

VOTE: Celebloki

Bad vibes

Noted

VOTE: malakittens
Still confused and kinda bothered by the suggestion that I’m skilled with mech, I can handle it but I would not say I’ve been pivotal to helping win a game that way

How does that make them mafia as opposed to just being wrong?

+1 good question actually

i do not think there are any advantages to doing so

maybe

i mean i could see some but
without trackers or anything like that there is no way to prove someone could visit if we have less then four people claim gun

The advantage is that we know there are 10 roses and 4 guns:

If mafia fake claim rose we know we can trust the gun claims

If mafia true claim gun they can be held accountable for where they are targeting

The downsides to claiming is that mafia can then target the guns. And the knowledge of guns today may not be helpful.

I like this point arguing against massclaim.

I think massclaim is good, so we force everyone who claimed gun to shot each other, because i don't believe Mafia didnt Went full 3 gun fun.

Wheme is conftown, unless atleast one gun claims.

Enchant

posits

Wheme

conftown with the mafia = all gun route, and relays a plan for all the guns to circle kill the other... I don't understand the town-motivation behind this. I know with

Alisae

there's an explicit scumread outside of their idea about how guns function in this game, but this feels like it could be

Enchant

wanting role information to tailor potential NKs. The town-motivation is less straight-forward if any is present, especially because the

Wheme

townread here was false.

I think massclaim is good, so we force everyone who claimed gun to shot each other, because i don't believe Mafia didnt Went full 3 gun fun.

Wheme is conftown, unless atleast one gun claims.

I never would go for that if I have a gun. I would shoot my reads period.

I smell you don't have it.

This actually does ping a bit like rolefishing, tbh. Kind of wondering if

Bulge

picked up on that.

I think after Wheme claimed gun, all 3 other guns are mafia and it's all pointless.

Weird logic loop, even with this read being false, it's positing that only town gun would claim.

i want to move off rvs but no one has scumpinged me yet so someone do that please

Fluffy posting

i do think the guns/roses claim discussion over the past few pages has been generally town-motivated

I didn't agree when I first read that

ok so why did you decide to pick rose?

Because it implues mafia need to remove me at some point.

The post preceding the lie that

Ari

caught.

I think massclaim is good, so we force everyone who claimed gun to shot each other, because i don't believe Mafia didnt Went full 3 gun fun.

Wheme is conftown, unless atleast one gun claims.

I never would go for that if I have a gun. I would shoot my reads period.

I smell you don't have it.

I might. I might not. Why are you speculating?

Because i have nothing to do.

Likelyhood you picked rose as town are 90%.
Maybe higher.

It seems you started this conversation assuming that Titus is town by saying you believe they are a rose. I think this is potentially weird, you have a strange perspective here.

See, this is actually a take I agree with on

Dunnstral

, their diction just feels off to me. I'd figure a townie would have a more articulate thought than "strange perspective" and actually do something with teeth here, like a vote or harder push.

:/
I just stated scum can also win if all town roses are dead
That’s been a thing in every run of this setup

I've never played this setup before but it just feels silly to me to pick rose as mafia - I'd pick gun every time

I am inclined to agree with this. Extra kills are more powerful for mafia than for town. On the other hand I've played a run of this setup where town only had 3 roses at the start and it felt pretty doomed.

The reasoning here makes sense, even though I disagree with the very premise that mafia are always going to be guns here.

The other game with 3 roses was a mafia win, after all.

I thought enchants answer was a banger

Ima shoot Ali I think

Wondering where

Ali

came from here.

Ok you got me i did in fact pick gun.

I pretended i townread wheme, so i can shot wheme in the face without being shot back but i guess it's blatant i always pick gun.


Bruh game.


So yeah. Crosskill?

The post where

Enchant's

stance on his claim and

Wheme

completely 180

VOTE: enchant
looks like a flailing wolf to me, this feels notably different from just normal Enchant scumminess

Feels slightly superficial read here, like I can see anyone coming up with this as a justification to vote

Enchant

. Am I being too harsh on

Cakez

?

Of course you can't let me shot wheme, until she wastes gun on some random townie, uhum.

I see this as attempt to powerlim me so Wheme can say "oh i joked i am in fact rose" on D2.

Posits that

Wheme

will waste a gun, but not that they're scum?

Also says that the votes are an attempt to powerlim so

Wheme

can say they lied about their claim... I am wondering what made

Enchant

want to do massclaim if they presumed who would claim is lying.

Why would you shoot Wheme?

Fair question, I'm not sure an

Enchant

-partner would give attention to this publically

Why would you shoot Wheme?

Cuz i am only town gun.

I don't believe one scum picked rose.

Same justification, only town gun can be

Enchant

... which is ???? Completely wild assessment to me. How can nobody else conceive the idea of town-gun if they themselves do?

Actually... if you are a town gun, why are you claiming instead of just shooting at night?

BeCaUsE EnChAnT NeVeR pIcK rOsE aS tOwN.

I TRIED to hide until i get my shot, i just realised that if i get wagoned to E-1, people just disbelieve me and it's blatant i am lying anyway.


So if pick rose, everyone push me for picking rose and when i do pick gun, everyone still push me, because they can't bear mind that i do have gun.

Literally unplayable.

It's not about the gun, it's about how you interacted regarding the claims and your reads.

yeah, I don't understand the drive for the D1 claims, seems senseless to me

At this point it is likely too late

The gun claims are likely either both town or 1 town 1 mafia

Mafia know everybody else is a rose

Town /maybe/ has 1 more gun hidden, assuming one of the current claims is mafia.

Hmmmmm...

On one hand, I like this post superficially because

Dunn

is giving a very real possibility of TvT here. But they aren't really doing much to caution the current suspicion alongside this. I also wonder if this post can come from an informed perspective.

I think enchant is town

K.

i think you are mafia w/ enchant

This seems unlikely

Tbh,

Dunn

, how has your

Wheme/Enchant

reads evolved and do you really think an

Enchant

flip is good here?

Personally I still think we forget about an Enchant or Wheme wagon until D2 and instead anyone pushing for an Enchant or Wheme wagon are good fodder for a wagon.

VOTE: SirCakez

Why?

Like I mentioned before, I don't feel that

Celebloki

said much to suggest

Enchant/Wheme

cannot be scum, so this feels like a purposeful counterwagon. The intentions behind that are less clear.

Regarding 261 by Malakittens I don't think Enchant was ever scumread for "picking gun". I do believe the reasons were: "enchant is claiming rose but would pick gun as town", "enchant is being deceptive", and "enchant is a flailing wolf". In light of that I find post 261 pretty suspicious.

DO YOU GUYS WANT TO FIND ANSWER URSELF OR WANT MY HELP

Yes

Ali’s reasoning is very weird

Still want you to explain this

I have so many thoughts I don’t want to share I am a genius

K...

Wheme's

posts aren't really giving much and that's intentional. Really helping me sort that slot... /s

VOTE: The Bulge

Interesting, I wonder where this came from, and also where the feels on

Celebloki

dissipated, was it because

Celebloki

wanted to counterwagon him and

Enchant

?

Is this your defense of eliminating

Wheme

over yourself D1...?

If you eliminate Wheme, who i will shot?!

Just let crosskill happen, fools.

Never convinced by your reasoning for killing

Wheme

Idk, Titus maybe.

K? More focus on

Titus

Enchant picking gun is NIA for me
I don’t really see why people are scumrrading enchant for it

Can you point to somebody scumreading Enchant for picking gun.

Mind meld
No one thinks that's why Enchant is scummy.

Cakez

parroting

Dunn

on something I actually had the similar perception as

Celeblok

I feel like Enchant and Wheme both being scum is almost like *too easy*? Like I feel like they would have solved this shit in scum chat or something by now. And they are both a little naturally scummy I think

I never really like these types of posts. It always feels like an easy out to backpedal when a read is correct or incorrect when convenient. The whole idea about scum solving this in their chat is WIFOM. The benefit of the doubt that

Cakez

supposes here is muddled by the previous statements, so I'm left feeling less sure on what

Cakez's

actual read of

Enchant

and

Wheme

and their wagons are.

Ali want to vote bulge with me

Another

Bulge

reference with no clear prompt from the other ISOs I've grouped here.

So Taly you go over my iso here. Where am I repeating what other people are saying here?

As for your response to 205 I never called Enchant mafia, never voted for Enchant. I see now that Alisae has claimed gun so that may change as I read up.

This oversimplifies why I scumread you. A lot of it is that you're very passive in this game in a way I don't think is natural.

As for misrepping you, sorry about that. ISO dive probably got me mixed up.

Conclusions from 509

- Able to see

Dunn

with some town motive. +Town
- Grievance with

Cakez's

posting strengthens -Town
-

Celebloki

,

Titus

,

Aristeia

,

Alisae

, and

The Bulge

are good next potential ISO groupees. Namely

Celebloki

and

Bulge

at the moment.
-

Wheme

does not make anymore sense to me, except for perhaps why they do not scumread

Celebloki

~Null
- I don't feel my suspicion on

Enchant

was absolved. ~Scum

idk i want both

dunn

and

cakez

flipped, they have failed the vibe check

Huh. What is changing your opinion of me back and forth?

I did like some things you said, I just don't think any of it is strongly AI one way or another, or potentially informed.

I don't think I'm passive, aside from not being here.

[Dunnstral]

This oversimplifies why I scumread you. A lot of it is that you're very passive in this game in a way I don't think is natural.

Here is what you wrote:

I eluded to this in my earlier post today but I scumread

Dunnstral

because I feel like a lot of their posts are a regurgitation of known information or what someone else said, which doesn't strike me to be on par with a player of their caliber.

I don't think my post is incorrect and I don't t hink you have been able to show where I have been "regurgitating known information".

[Dunnstral]

This is boring me

Do you want to talk about something else?

Not really. Your reasons for suspecting me seem inconsistent between posts, and I don't think you can back up what you said was your reason for suspecting me in 432.

[Dunnstral]

Okay to be fair I thought it was obvious joke but then ppl took it seriously so I was like hmm I can just act like nignt 2 gun maybe mafia kills me night 2

I'm not buying that it was a joke, and if mafia shot you night 2 you would be able to get your own shot off as claimed.

Near the beginning of the game you were asked why you had claimed, and you immediately responded that you thought it had made you clear. Doesn't seem like a joke to me, really. Instead it seems to me that you are now flailing after two people claimed gun after you did.

VOTE: Whemestar

This might not make sense I don’t know how to word things but look

First off this whole post sounds like you know I’m town and it’s confusing me. Second off the only scenario in which claiming gun = being ic is if all mafia are gun and there’s only one town gun. That’s impossible to know which is why it’s an obvious non serious claim and if I’m mafia and I know there’s only one town gun because we’re all guns then why would I claim gun and risk a counter claim. The only way it makes sense for me to be mafia is if I am rose mafia baiting a counter claim and night shot by gun which is a genius idea and I’m glad Ali thinks I would do that but I think that’s out of my range. If I’m scum with a gun claiming gun is just asking for a death wish because you would just get shot. So if you believe I am actually a gun there’s no way I could be scum.

How does the post look like I know you are town? I am accusing you.

I also never said mafia had three guns and that is not something town can assume here either. It is strange that you are running with this as your reasoning as if you know this information to be true, while at the same time defending both gun claims - seems inconsistent to me.

I'm not sure whether you are a rose or a gun. But you claimed gun, and now you are retracting it after receiving pressure which reasoning that I find suspect, and that is what is important to me.

[Dunnstral]

You cherry picked 802 to where it doesn't show my progression of your read.

What you are saying there is not the same thing as repeating what other people are saying though. And I don't believe I was repeating mech arguments other people had already made either.

[Dunnstral]

That’s impossible to know which is why it’s an obvious non serious claim and if I’m mafia and I know there’s only one town gun because we’re all guns then why would I claim gun and risk a counter claim.

Why do you bring up there only being one town gun if you are mafia here. I am confused as to where it came from.

[Dunnstral]

Can we agree that even if I’m really dumb there’s 0% chance I ever claim gun if I’m actually a gun especially mafia gun so dunn thinking I’m gun is really weird

I didn't say you were a gun, I said you were mafia.

[Dunnstral]

Okay to be fair I thought it was obvious joke but then ppl took it seriously so I was like hmm I can just act like nignt 2 gun maybe mafia kills me night 2

I'm not buying that it was a joke, and if mafia shot you night 2 you would be able to get your own shot off as claimed.

Near the beginning of the game you were asked why you had claimed, and you immediately responded that you thought it had made you clear. Doesn't seem like a joke to me, really. Instead it seems to me that you are now flailing after two people claimed gun after you did.

VOTE: Whemestar

?

Nowhere in this post do I say I think you are a gun.

Your own claim is as follows:

You claimed night 2 gun so mafia kill you night 2. That does not make sense to me because if mafia waited until night 2, you would be able to shoot somebody; so they'd go for you on night 1. Your logic doesn't hold here which indicates to me that you did not really think this through.

Again, this is going off of the logic with what

you claimed

, it is not me saying that I think you are a gun.

[Dunnstral]

Dunn I’m confused

OK, what part do you not understand?

[Dunnstral]

I am attacking your logic. You said that you claimed night 2 gun to get mafia to shoot you on night 2. I am saying that that thinking does not make sense.

[Dunnstral]

Why did you post 777 then?

[Dunnstral]

I'm wrong somewhere.

You're also missing someone

[Dunnstral]

Regarding 261 by Malakittens I don't think Enchant was ever scumread for "picking gun". I do believe the reasons were: "enchant is claiming rose but would pick gun as town", "enchant is being deceptive", and "enchant is a flailing wolf". In light of that I find post 261 pretty suspicious.

[Dunnstral]

I want to push everyone to spew reads on Enchant/Wheme/Alisae.

I'm not convinced that any specific shot is a town-controlled one unless there is more input from the playerlist.

Maybe town, town & town

When you posted this did you realize the 3 of them were claiming guns?

[Dunnstral]

I feel like he was being scumread bc he picked rose, which if you are going to nitpick me over semantics its interchangable being being scum read bc he didnt pick gun.

being scum read because he didn't pick gun seems to be the opposite of being scum read because he

did

pick gun. You've argued both now.

[Dunnstral]

Enchant picking gun is NIA for me
I don’t really see why people are scumrrading enchant for it

I feel like he was being scumread bc he picked rose, which if you are going to nitpick me over semantics its interchangable being being scum read bc he didnt pick gun.

My argument is that these two posts are contradictory.

[Dunnstral]

Well I dont really give a shit if they are all picking guns or not.
I feel like the case on enchant is sketch at best because I feel like enchant picking rose is NAI at best
wheme I felt like he was trown
and Ali i definately havent had full time to read but ali feels town to me

It kind of seems like you haven't read anything and are just calling a bunch of people town for no reason here.

[Dunnstral]

I have feeling if i did pick rose i would fakeclaim gun because claiming rose is so unbelivable i would be policed.

Again, only 1 person in this playerlist cared about that

[Dunnstral]

You can't be policied by one person

[Dunnstral]

why is everyone unvoting and not revoting.

UNVOTE:

[Dunnstral]

I'm not sure why I have been piled onto here.

[Dunnstral]

Can you do a read wall?

I am townreading:

Aristeia, Alisae, Gamma Emerald

I think these people could go either way:

Titus, Taly, The Bulge, SirCakez, Celebloki

I think this group is likely to have mafia in it:

Malakittens, pisskop, Theta Alpine, Whemestar

------

Malakittens: Has barely done anything relevant this game day. What they have done has been contradictory, I feel t hey were not able to get their story straight yesterday. They have claimed that Enchant was being scum read both for picking gun and for not picking gun.

pisskop: I'm not able to follow their suspicions on myself and SirCakez. Strangely, they say there is not a lot to the slot in 1024, and yet they were pushing the slot before then, and there's no mention of slots like Malakittens despite not having a lot of content. Ultimately it feels like pisskop has decided on their reads here but isn't basing it on anything.

Theta Alpine: They have never voted for anybody. They have been very vague about suspicion such as the phrase: "i have been pinged by the requests for massclaims but i cannot come to a conclusion if those are scum motivated or not". They say that mafia picked mostly roses but it's not clear why they think that or what that means. They end it with "just no clue who that means to push" which is again vague and not pointing at anybody, and that feels scummy to me.

Whemestar: Their early claim did not feel like a joke claim to me. They seem weirdly fixated on whether they would be a mafia rose or gun and whether each is possible and that feels like an angle that mafia look for when they've picked something unexpected, rather than a townie trying to defend themselves here. Them not really understanding the arguments I am making and going back to the gun/rose thing might be indicative as well.

[Dunnstral]

I'm not sure why I have been piled onto here.

if you're town you need to do something here like pretty soon

Pretty sure I've done a lot more than you have in this game!

[Dunnstral]

wheme was the counter

This is not true

[Dunnstral]

wheme was the counter

This is not true

What is, then?

Whemestar was a wagon before I was, and the votes on them are completely unrelated to the wagon on me now.

[Dunnstral]

Dunn

you want to talk about that

Ari

townread?

Their pushes on Enchant and the bulge feel like town

[Dunnstral]

Enchant is in the middle

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: WhemeStar

[Dunnstral]

so did a N1 shot get blocked still?

Gamma was shot at