Mini Normal 2334: trees (Day 6)

[Elements]

Bloop

[RationalMadman]

Ok Rational's arguments have little to no merit to them. But there are certain things I'm trying to check for in your thinking to see if they match your posting and your answers aren't quite giving me what I want. What specifically has Elements done in this game that you would associate with a townie doing, at what specific time did you notice it and why.

Please also flesh out the KJQ scum read, as it stands it doesn't follow from the explanation you gave in 1118

They have a lot of merit to them, fuck off saying this unless you are willing to lay out what I've gotten wrong.

[RationalMadman]

i would like anyone who thinks rational's arguments have even a shred of logic in them to have a talk with me

Talk with me. I think my arguments have logic 'in' them.

[RationalMadman]

The mere-exposure effect is a psychological phenomenon by which people tend to develop liking or disliking for things merely because they are familiar with them. In social psychology, this effect is sometimes called the familiarity principle. The effect has been demonstrated with many kinds of things, including words, Chinese characters, paintings, pictures of faces, geometric figures, and sounds.[1] In studies of interpersonal attraction, the more often people see a person, the more pleasing and likeable they find that person.

Wikipedia page debunking that the 'exposure' effect has to do with overconfidence of someone.

[RationalMadman]

Also, where am I in the mix?

rational elements you if i had to say

[RationalMadman]

please don't fall prey for the mere exposure effect guys
just because rational's confident doesn't mean he's right

Ignore him for the moment and just answer my Qs ty!

i think elements has done towny things and scummy things. i do not have a solid read.

I agree with kayjay scum

[RationalMadman]

rational elements you if i had to say

Nickriviera, Awesomeming and Elements... Adds up well too. Very very well if we observe the interactions so far.

[RationalMadman]

camel what are your thoughts on your wagon

I want to talk about the camelcasedsnivy wagon. While thomith gave a remotely viable reason, dann elements and hu tao dropped naked votes on camel

within a few posts of each other

and this concerns me because perhaps the only remarkable thing about camel's posts is how unremarkable they've been.


and then later dr nick also drops a naked vote

like what the hell guys am i just not in the loop is this some site meta i'm supposed to know about?

gun to head, do you have a read on Rational right now, Thomith?

Town.

My instinct says that scum likely don't draw this much attention to themselves this early. I understand this may be more of a playstyle thing, and this logic can be quite WIFOMy, but the fact that a lot of the early votes, or most recent wagon votes weren't necessarily due to scumreading Rational, and seemed more votes out of annoyance or general disagreement, I think this compounds into Rational being an easy wagon, which makes me inclined to think he is a scapegoat vote, so is more likely to be town.

On a separate note if you are Town, I am over 80% sure that one of dannflor, Elements or Snivy is scum. There was something totally out of where with how they just piled on you there. However, I believe ONLY one of the three is given how it went down.

I don't understand why of them suddenly voted you, seemed to be taking advantage of many outing suspicion on you (including me).

There is something seriously wrong with the speed of this wagon, I recommend anyone on it to unvote ASAP.

[RationalMadman]

mimicking/mirroring of me is there and even before it.

[RationalMadman]

how can he have said team is DrNick, Elements and Me if he was scumreading KJQ all along and not clear on Elements?

[RationalMadman]

You have helped Scum narrow down PRs massively by what you just did (unless you are Scum obviously). I am struggling to not violate the insult rule at this point. I'm not replying to you anymore.

Getting into an argument you can't win and backing out before it makes you look bad, got it

This post in particular seems to have been made with bad faith

Anyways no elim d1 is objectively bad but I don't really think w!Rational would argue about this and then continue arguing about it after near unanimous disproval of the strategy
elements voting rational on it seems opportunistic imo

I wanna vote in Gibdo/Salty/Rational/Hu today
In no particular order

Why do you Townread awesomeming

Why do you assume that not scumread implies townread?

Not only do we see a scum Elements defying herself by voting Dann instead of Hu in the eventual 1v1 showdown that just happened but Elements betrayed those 4 so much so that she ended up voting everybody and confusing everyoen to forget what she said. Yet, Awesomeming is confused why I asked her why those outside the 4 are townread by her or in her townpool after having scumread her previously for coming after me in ways he himself joined in with overtly. He also suddenly townreads her based on what Dann says but now is unsure. He can't tell you what she's done that's Towny because he flipped the read on her along the way for no coherent reason.

Elements is scummy. Awesomeming is scummy. Awesomeming isn't getting vote by Elements here because she's hoping Dann is voted off instead.

[RationalMadman]

I almost voted Rational out of annoyance too

I don’t think Elements’ vote is particularly scummy

But what do you think about elements wanting me to vote rational as well

You have helped Scum narrow down PRs massively by what you just did (unless you are Scum obviously). I am struggling to not violate the insult rule at this point. I'm not replying to you anymore.

Getting into an argument you can't win and backing out before it makes you look bad, got it

This post in particular seems to have been made with bad faith

elements is lowkey cooking

elements is lowkey cooking

I'm like a pond-skater

no you are a axolotl

I wanna vote in Gibdo/Salty/Rational/Hu today
In no particular order

Why do you Townread awesomeming

Why do you assume that not scumread implies townread?

actually i kind of liked dann's explanation of elements town

Awesomeming seemed to strategically go out of his way to be 'converted' by Dannflor to townread Elements and it doesn't add up at all why he is joking with her and townreading her instantly after scumreading me unless it does add up as not only is she his partner but he needed to seem to have 'chemistry' with her to later townread her and buy into the Dannflor arguments for her being Town that he himself engineered by asking Dannflor solely about why Elements is town.

[RationalMadman]

3. Literally give me quotes for any of these claims:
"tries to appear friendly while trying to rile others up"
"pretends to defend others while laying the foundation to scumread them"
"backs out of it when attacked"

TL;DR rational is pushing me on unfounded logic and false evidence, after overreacting and then OMGUSing to a meme-y scumread I had on him.

VOTE: Rational

"tries to appear friendly while trying to rile others up"

messing around at the start of the game is fine, at the end of the day the goal is to have fun

Might've wanted to used wording other than "end of the day" in this context

Red team can post things that aren't red team motivated

So can green team!

rational's writing style is so goofy
it seems super stream of consciousness

Not sure what to even think of it as it is such a brutal slip it cannot be a real one.

this seems pretty unnecessary

actually to think about it the entire byplay between rational and kay about the "slip" seems really weird
like it seems too small of a deal for that big of a conversation

kind of meme but {kay rational elements} solve ez

rational's writing style is so goofy
it seems super stream of consciousness

Not sure what to even think of it as it is such a brutal slip it cannot be a real one.

this seems pretty unnecessary

actually to think about it the entire byplay between rational and kay about the "slip" seems really weird
like it seems too small of a deal for that big of a conversation

kind of meme but {kay rational elements} solve ez

She thanked me for it because people like yourself never corrected her on it. Maybe take that into consideration when analysing it.

I was referencing how many words was in the conversation. I never said the conversation was unnecessary, I said that the superfluousness of it was unnecessary.

Your post is very confrontational. Why?

As much as I would love to gehad you continue to argue pointlessly, unfortunately, this is not mafia theory discussion thread. Please play the game instead.

I was referencing how many words was in the conversation. I never said the conversation was unnecessary, I said that the superfluousness of it was unnecessary.

That’s my fault. I tend to be a superfluous writer in these games, it’s just how I express myself. I tend to over explain everything (even this post, I can’t help myself wtf)

Actually this is something I should've remembered for myself having played a game with you literally a few days ago heh

But mostly I was talking about rational's superfluous writing style
It's about 5x more superfluous than yours

elements is lowkey cooking

I'm like a pond-skater

no you are a axolotl

I wanna vote in Gibdo/Salty/Rational/Hu today
In no particular order

Why do you Townread awesomeming

Why do you assume that not scumread implies townread?

This is truly a terrible outcome. I wish we all vote awesomeming.

your arguments are not convincing.

rational: ur hyperfocusing
also rational:

I do not want to fade hutao before getting dripping camel and salty to get a little more content in

Dr nick, what are you thoughts on hu tao? You said before that you scumread her right

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"pretends to defend others while laying the foundation to scumread them"
"backs out of it when attacked"

In my experience people who openly advocate for no elim are town
That’s from my site though things might be different here
I guess the reason is that the vibe that comes with advocating no elim is uninformed

I almost voted Rational out of annoyance too

I don’t think Elements’ vote is particularly scummy

But what do you think about elements wanting me to vote rational as well

[quote=awesomeming327 post_id=14150646 post_num=98 time=1712433253 user_id=37392
And no not really I changed my mind rational is not a newbie and my thing only applies for newbies

Lovely
Come vote with me

No
Still on vacation
Will read rationals posts tomorrow (rather than today)
[/quote]

In my experience people who openly advocate for no elim are town

the meta on this site is very anti no-lim day 1
given that Rational joined in 2013 I'm sure he's experienced enough to know that

well yes so is mine; but people usually just correct them and say that no elim is bad. People generally don’t treat it as alignment indicative but I think they’re town

But they were all newbies uhh

You have helped Scum narrow down PRs massively by what you just did (unless you are Scum obviously). I am struggling to not violate the insult rule at this point. I'm not replying to you anymore.

Getting into an argument you can't win and backing out before it makes you look bad, got it

This post in particular seems to have been made with bad faith

rational's writing style is so goofy
it seems super stream of consciousness

Not sure what to even think of it as it is such a brutal slip it cannot be a real one.

this seems pretty unnecessary

actually to think about it the entire byplay between rational and kay about the "slip" seems really weird
like it seems too small of a deal for that big of a conversation

kind of meme but {kay rational elements} solve ez

rational's writing style is so goofy
it seems super stream of consciousness

Not sure what to even think of it as it is such a brutal slip it cannot be a real one.

this seems pretty unnecessary

actually to think about it the entire byplay between rational and kay about the "slip" seems really weird
like it seems too small of a deal for that big of a conversation

kind of meme but {kay rational elements} solve ez

She thanked me for it because people like yourself never corrected her on it. Maybe take that into consideration when analysing it.

I was referencing how many words was in the conversation. I never said the conversation was unnecessary, I said that the superfluousness of it was unnecessary.

Your post is very confrontational. Why?

As much as I would love to gehad you continue to argue pointlessly, unfortunately, this is not mafia theory discussion thread. Please play the game instead.

elements is lowkey cooking

I wanna vote in Gibdo/Salty/Rational/Hu today
In no particular order

Why do you Townread awesomeming

Why do you assume that not scumread implies townread?

Awesoming came in clarifying to default me to Town for advocating for no elimination. This was followed by clarifying that it's Towny because it's uninformed and a noob thing (implying both that he now has grounds to vote me later for being wrong and that he is calling me stupid/ignorant without directly attacking me while seeming to side with me).

After this, Awesoming suddenly realises I'm not new. So, why say that then? After realising I'm not new, he leaves it dismissed rather than directly engaging me and attacking my logic (which is infallible and can't be argued against, sorry to flex it but it's true and I think he realised this as he read it but left it for later).

In fact, the strangest aspect of all was awesoming having the time to still make some posts but not have the time to read my posts and attack my sound logic for the no-elimination. It is exactly the kind of 'haven't got time sorry' post that Scum that wants to get away with not directly engaging people after saying 'this person is kind of wrong that person is kind of scummy but I don't have time to fully explore, peace out' do during DP1s, laying the groundwork to lead on anyone convenient later and really having sided with 0 people while appearing to.

1. Your first paragraph is incoherent to me; what are you even trying to say?
2. I said that I realized that you weren't new because I realized that you weren't new. If I realized that fact, why wouldn't I post that I made a mistake when initially making the townread on you? I certainly want to clarify my position on you especially if I think my previous logic is wrong. I didn't attack your logic because your logic has been attacked already. By numerous people. And I didn't want to dwell on the argument because it was a waste of time.
3. I was very busy traveling (hence the helpful v/la tag next to my username) and only skimmed your posts; I skimmed the posts because I wanted to stay at least slightly in the loop when I have time to do so, but I didn't have time to fully read. I came in an engaged with the thread as well as I can. Would you have suggested that I simply don't post instead? In fact, my posts were highly theoretical (along the lines of "generally, these people are town") because I didn't know the specifics and I still had a way to contribute, and that was to post this kind of generality - before realizing that I had overlooked one part of the issue. It's funny that you characterized my posts as "haven't got time sorry" scumposting when I genuinely just did not have time

I both scumread you and you confronted me. I don't know why other people are passive, I am here to rip the Scum to pieces as they beg for mercy. That's how I approach Mafia. If other Townies get in the way of that they meet the same fierceness from me too. To temper this and avoid rule violations and stay calm is a combination most can't pull off so they either tone everything passive or try to play nice.

Streams of consciousness mockery of my high effort posts, which only Thomith is equalling effort of is not surprising Id then get stern or annoyed at you criticising both me and Kayjay and trying to frame us as scum.

I have probably the highest ratio of useful contributions Vs useless this game of any player here. You however said you'd read my posts and attack the logic later and never ever did.

As for the streams of consciousness remark, you aren't exactly wrong but I can't explain how other posts compare without insulting others. My posts tend to be productive if at times for nothing more than the chain events they set off in replies. If that is an issue for you, I couldn't care less and you can scumread me for being highly contributive in a way you don't like all you want. I have already explained why I scumread you anyway and am down to vote you off even.

1. Thank you for explaining your playstyle - something I never even asked for. I do not care that you have an aggressive playstyle that is not what I meant at all. I was referencing the way you are writing and articulating what you are saying, which is different than the way you are interacting with the thread.
2. What's the point of using the word "mockery"? I was not mocking; I was simply making an observation. Your posts come off to me as stream of consciousness. I said very clearly in my post "kinda meme" which means in no way was I intending to actually push that, so I do not see where you are coming from with the "trying to frame [you] as scum"
3. You most certainly do not have a high proportion of contribution. Most of your posts have been caught up with the annoying argument about no hang d1 and if you seriously think you're convincing anyone with any of your posts you're just wrong. It's funny that you think that your posts are contributive though. Furthermore, I never said that I'd attack your posts' logic so uhh.

You seem way too defensive over something that is not that serious. If you actually thought that me scumreading over

writing

style was something worth responding to so strongly (even bordering on OMGUS)- wow. Kind of furthers my point in my post saying "too small of a deal for that big of a conversation"

263, 265, 266 (ISO 64-66) are all more examples of overreaction on rational's part. The whole progression on me seems like trying to OMGUS without it actually seemingly like OMGUS.

I can't see a 'town Awesomeming' attacking me with ridicule there rather than with exploring the very idea he said he'd prove wrong.

I also noticed that he was rapid to switch from saying I'm town to saying oops he's not a noob and isn't Town just like he tried to say the interaction with me and Kayjay is weird and then goes 'oh stop talking mafia theory you're wasting effort and it's annoying and it was the length of reply'. Absolutely nothing from Awesomeming seems Towny.

I am also less sure Nick Riviera is Town but what Nick Riviera does that I prefer is he never pretended to give a shit what I'm writing. There is a significant difference between that and pretending to read it later and combat it while failing to. Lazy town that don't want to read and like to ridicule is still townreadable it's to do with consistency. Awesomeming tries to appear friendly while trying to rile others up, pretends to defend others while laying the foundation to scumread them and then backs out of it when attacked. Everything about it is textbook scum behaviour, nothing about Awesomeming's series of activity this day phase reads as Town to me. I am either massively wrong or right on the money.

1. Again, I never said I'd prove anything wrong.
2. Nice IIOA.
3. Literally give me quotes for any of these claims:
"tries to appear friendly while trying to rile others up"
"pretends to defend others while laying the foundation to scumread them"
"backs out of it when attacked"

TL;DR rational is pushing me on unfounded logic and false evidence, after overreacting and then OMGUSing to a meme-y scumread I had on him.

VOTE: Rational

This is truly a terrible outcome. I wish we all vote awesomeming.

your arguments are not convincing.

no, you're the one who's been playing anti-town and being toxic as fuck

i would like anyone who thinks rational's arguments have even a shred of logic in them to have a talk with me

please don't fall prey for the mere exposure effect guys
just because rational's confident doesn't mean he's right

Ignore him for the moment and just answer my Qs ty!

i think elements has done towny things and scummy things. i do not have a solid read.

please don't fall prey for the mere exposure effect guys
just because rational's confident doesn't mean he's right

[Black]

I think 950 probably just comes from scum in this situation considering ming has a decently strong townread on Hu. He's either too casual about a town!Hu dying or he feels defeated about scum!Hu's situation and wants to buy her time

[ActionDan]

I think 950 probably just comes from scum in this situation considering ming has a decently strong townread on Hu. He's either too casual about a town!Hu dying or he feels defeated about scum!Hu's situation and wants to buy her time

There's no Townread on Hu from ming. Black I suggest reading Ming's iso.

[Black]

I think 950 probably just comes from scum in this situation considering ming has a decently strong townread on Hu. He's either too casual about a town!Hu dying or he feels defeated about scum!Hu's situation and wants to buy her time

There's no Townread on Hu from ming. Black I suggest reading Ming's iso.

please don't fall prey for the mere exposure effect guys
just because rational's confident doesn't mean he's right

Ignore him for the moment and just answer my Qs ty!

i think elements has done towny things and scummy things. i do not have a solid read.

What is your read on Hu Tao

vibes are certainly good and progression with dann is also good

def a townread

[ActionDan]

pretty sure he was referring to Dann there. He can clarify

[ActionDan]

nvm guess not reading it again

[Black]

pretty sure he was referring to Dann there. He can clarify

He said their progression with Dann was good so why would he be talking about Dann?

[Elements]

she's hoping Dann is voted off instead.

Dann is never getting voted off today
you just don't understand how I use my vote

[Black]

have very much thought KayJay was scum the whole game

I agree with kayjay scum

I'm curious about these reads

As I am your scumread, thoughts on what I posted on Dann and how he was caught lying?

I'm not seeing the lie and I think you trying to paint it as one feels desperate

How do you not see it? He says my reads are unnatural last game when we were both town. Yet this time he doesn't even consider it and still calls it unnatural.

Also, why does that make you think I'm panting it that way? What about it seems desperate? Because clearly other people see it too since he has more votes on him than me now. If that's the case, what do you think of the others who voted him after I laid out my case?

Hi just letting you know I see this and plan on answering when I get to my PC

Just curious if you're interested in joining a ming wagon

[RationalMadman]

she's hoping Dann is voted off instead.

Dann is never getting voted off today
you just don't understand how I use my vote

The vote was Hu vs Dann. It's up to you to justify your votes not up to others to understand them. Now the vote is Awesomeming vs Dann. Who are you voting?

[Elements]

It's up to you to justify your votes

Don't tell me what to do
I can vote whoever, whenever. Don't assume to understand why I'm doing something

[RationalMadman]

It's up to you to justify your votes

Don't tell me what to do
I can vote whoever, whenever. Don't assume to understand why I'm doing something

Then don't expect anyone to understand it. If you can vote whoever, whenver, I can say whatever, whenever to you too by that logic.

Actions are 'free' but consequences of actions aren't.

[Elements]

Then don't expect anyone to understand it.

I'm not