Mini 938: Weeds Mafia (GAME OVER)

[Ythan]

Hi Grid.

[Ythan]

Of course. Good luck.

[Ythan]

I've been using Baccano avatars since I joined! This one is just a lot more instantly recognizable.

[Ythan]

vote ooba

[Ythan]

For whom?

[Ythan]

Haha yes, McGriddle and horrordude in one game. Is every everyone?

[Ythan]

I need to revert to an avatar more appropriate for an evil laugh then.

[Ythan]

I don't like Magna's double "game hasn't started yet" posts.

vote MagnaofIllusion

[Ythan]

unvote vote McGriddle

for being anti-wagon.

[Ythan]

unvote vote MagnaofIllusion

for whining hard early. Found scum.

[Ythan]

Or get modkilled. That also solves the problem.

[Ythan]

Vote: Horrordude

For that other game you were in with me. You know what I'm talking about.

I think we have more in common than Baccano.

[Ythan]

FoS Sando

for distancing hard from his vote.

[Ythan]

Hell make it a

vote Sando

.

[Ythan]

An

unvote vote Sando

just in case already.

[Ythan]

unvote vote The1fifi

for following my vote in an ingenuine-feeling manner.

I think everyone should answer all of horrordude's questions, including himself.

What is your ideal role? Would you rather be town or scum? Explain why.

Anything interesting because it's interesting. Town because hunting is more fun than pretending to hunt.

If you were at L-1 and you were a simple townie, would you claim a PR to try to save your own ass and catch actual scum instead of you? (I can go into much more detail about this but I will leave it at this for now.)

No. If I'm suspicious enough to get to L-1 the town doesn't need me around making things harder in endgame.

Are you good at playing scum or not? Explain why.

Yes because I'm a fucking wizard.

Which is a better tell, lurking or over-defensiveness? Explain why.

OVER-defensiveness. Lots of people lurk for lots of reasons.

How would you trap a possible scum target? (meaning you troll them or something of that sort)

Scum doesn't need trapping.

If you thought Player X was scum would you just vote them and give reasons from their previous statements, or would you ask a few questions before placing a vote? Explain why.

You ask questions about points from their previous statements as those questions come up, and if they can't satisfy your suspicion you stick to them.

Do you believe it is a good idea to policy lynch someone in 1 game because of something that happened in another? (lol) Explain why.

I've never done this and don't think it's a good policy.

What do you think about policy lynching? Explain why.

In my experience there is always a better lynch than a policy lynch. But if there isn't then I guess sure.

What do you think about people who go V/LA a lot during a game? Are they scummy for it or not? Explain why.

Going V/LA is not scummy. Lurking is. Tell the difference.

What do you think about Lynch All Liars? Explain why.

In most situations liars hurt town and will continue to read unclearly as long as they remain alive. Harmful. Lynch most liars.

Who would you kill right now if you had the chance to kill someone? (ie day killing vigilante) Explain why.

Magna for reasons.

[Ythan]

My mistake you two are similarly categorized in my mind.

[Ythan]

I have never seen the questions of a survey themselves contribute to anything worthwhile.

[Ythan]

I think I've seen him do it before as town. I'll get back to you on that.

[Ythan]

He did not do it as scum in Kinmaker but he did do it as scum in Newbie 894. These are the questions he asked. Bold one's match questions here.

If you could have someone killed right now who would it be?

If you were a cop who would you investigate?

If you were being forced to claim, would you lie if you were a townie to say you are a PR to try not to get lynched?

Who is you top suspect thus far?
What do you think about RV's?
What do you think of Ythans over-enthusiasm?
Who are your top 3 probable townies?
Could you explain some good information about scum-hunting to the newer players? Also, Could you tell me who your top suspect is thus far?

[Ythan]

Bold ones*

[Ythan]

The argument is that you're involving yourself in the conversation without contributing, or active lurking.

[Ythan]

How is that interesting?

unvote vote thatguy00

[Ythan]

It was not a major topic. He was lynched for other reasons. And I'm not pointing a finger at you, I am voting.

[Ythan]

If you think that it's suspect then man up and say so.

[Ythan]

I didn't accuse your questions of being scummy.

[Ythan]

EBWOPs tend to be double posts, so I think ebwoDp is redundant. Also try to keep straight who you vote.

[Ythan]

I think I'm going to settle on

vote MagnaofIllusion

for now since he is obvscum.

[Ythan]

Yes, I play the same way every game town or scum. So, considering the general feeling in my games is that I'm town, I enjoy deceiving.

I guess we should lynch you if we have no way of telling if you're scum.

[Ythan]

I think we have more in common than Baccano.

Any reason you want to buddy up to Fate here?

Any reason you're trying to paint it that way? Question, is this your first account on the site? If not then tell me your old one.

Or get modkilled. That also solves the problem

So the obvious solution is to get modkilled somehow instead of calling you on your short, reactionary posts and general lack of content (aside from Post 54)? I think I'll see where option two leads, thank you.

Please learn to read for content.

Do you believe that bouncing around your vote with at best superficial reasoning is anything other than Anti-town / scummuy?

Do you have any idea what RVS is? There's a wiki for things like this, it's linked at the top of each page.

@thatguy – So far you’ve made two OMGUS style vote (in RVS, granted) and not much else. Why didn’t you vote for Ythan when you pointed out his super-ball style vote bouncing?

Earnestly trying to drum up a wagon, noted.

If Magna is as new as his title indicates he may just be really obvious scum.

[Ythan]

title

join date

[Ythan]

title

join date

title actually works too

[Ythan]

Trying to drum up a wagon on smoke and mirrors. Scummy. So you have a vote. Also you're pretty clearly scum.

[Ythan]

You mentioned the same thing but you aren't trying to really take it somewhere.

[Ythan]

Instead of parroting me you just referred to what I am doing is what we are doing.

[Ythan]

What is this posting of which you speak?

[Ythan]

I cannot say for the other players but I know that McGriddle has been active elsewhere on the site in the time that he has not been posting here. I expect that this will be met with quite a response on his part.

[Ythan]

Example?

[Ythan]

I hate the pointlessness of the RVS and instead attack throughout with the utmost malice.

[Ythan]

Ythan, do you really feel that pretty much calling everyone "obv scum" is actually going to accomplish anything other than an extended RVS?

No. So it's a good thing I didn't do that at all.

[Ythan]

So your voting was RVS and can’t be questioned, but it wasn’t RVS instead it was you ‘attacking with utmost malice’. Which is it?

I said I don't like the pointlessness. Does it all make sense now?

How is this not exactly what you are doing?

It's not what I'm doing because it's plainly not? I'm not leading any wagons. So, two plainly different things. Are different.

[Ythan]

I did answer the question. Stop implying that I didn't and ask your question more clearly if you want a different answer. I'll bounce my vote around as I please until someone scummy like you comes up

if you don't mind

.

[Ythan]

Ythan is still leading us nowhere

This is a pretty loaded statement. Nobody is "leading us" anywhere.

[Ythan]

@xRECKONERx - If you wish to answer this question please do so - Is there a Jester role in this game?

There are almost never jesters in any game ever. Bringing it up is just going to raise eyebrows. Asking the mod about roles in a closed game is not going to get you anything.

[Ythan]

Sando, would you care to indicate where you feel that Magna is actively scumhunting with intent?

[Ythan]

I feel that you're over-interpreting his actions. In particular, the "he's not just doing it to look good" line.

[Ythan]

I assume that was directed at Sando.

[Ythan]

I disagree. Scum wants lynches just as badly as town does, but has far more opportunities for a lynch beneficial for their own win condition. Additionally they know which lynches will be a benefit.

[Ythan]

For that post? Reads as newbie to me.

[Ythan]

That's what I was thinking. Of that post anyway.

[Ythan]

Fate, I said one thing I saw read more as a newb read to me. Grid, you're an idiot.

[Ythan]

I note that you distance from any real investment in your vote.

[Ythan]

That wasn't my reason...misrep much? If you read my post I clearly stated that I voted for the "most vocal" in hopes that he'd add more than just a ton of one-liner posts that aren't really adding. Quantity is not better than quality. He has a high quantity of posts that don't amount to much. Then again no one, myself included, does. However, I feel that if Ythan starts contributing more content, rather than small content-less posts, than discussion will follow. Failing that people will jump on me, which has already started, resulting in discussion. Either result is beneficial.

I'm contributing a hell of a lot more content than you. How about a self-vote so you can do something useful.

What Ythan? I'm an idiot? Is that not mod killable? personal attacks?

Do something useful for once in your mafia career instead of trying to get a modkill over nothing. Anti-town.

[Ythan]

I bounce a bit in RVS and make my votes pretty serious. I find it gets much better reactions then going "HURPADUP RANDOM VOTE."

[Ythan]

Konowa, if you want a Grid or Leech lynch you should vote Leech. Grid is always scummy no matter what his alignment. He's just anti-town as a rule.

[Ythan]

Since you asked, Konowa, I'm only reading post by post as we go until we hit ten pages or time becomes an issue. I'll give you my 100% accurate reads then.

[Ythan]

Konowa, if you want a Grid or Leech lynch you should vote Leech.

Why? This is a prime example of what I was talking about before. You make broad statements like that without listing any actual reason.

No you actually cut the reason out. It was in the NEXT SENTENCE OF THE POST.

unvote vote Leech

[Ythan]

Magna, please explain to me how the points you used to vote me are no longer valid in your eyes.

[Ythan]

Grid has no reasoning behind me being scum. In my experience he is just a terribly anti-town VI who does nothing but tunnel on me with no evidence and refusing to offer any shred of support in every game he possibly can.

[Ythan]

Are you saying that your voting and tacking on phrases like obvScum qualifies as a ‘pretty serious’ vote?

Did it not strike you as serious? You reacted poorly and that leads me to believe that you did.

No, you stated that Grid seems anti-town even when he's town. You did not give a single reason why I'd be a better lynch. Just because someone always appears scummy, doesn't mean I'm a better lynch. Someone having a habit of looking like scum is not a reason to vote for someone else.

There's disagreeing with an argument and then there's pretending that it doesn't exist. You did the latter.

[Ythan]

Ythans attacking of Magna looks pretty similar to what he's accusing Grid of doing.

This is going to take some explaining.

Seems out of character for Ythan, but I've only got a very small sample size here.

So is this weak meta attack and distancing from said attack by someone I've never played with before.

[Ythan]

When I said explain I meant provide support for your claim.

I'm glad you admit your meta attack is weak considering we've never played together. What raises my suspicions is that you made it at all when you clearly have no basis for it.

You're distancing by making the attack and then immediately devaluating its veracity.

unvote vote Sando

[Ythan]

No, you made a meta attack on me even though you have no meta information on my play. Now instead of accounting for yourself on any point I'm insane. Right.

[Ythan]

And please don't drop your assertion that I'm tunneling or mine that you're distancing, I want to see where those go as well.

[Ythan]

Clearly OMGUS? Maybe you should clear up your other problems before you give yourself more to talk your way out of.

[Ythan]

Because you either fail to or pretend not to understand the logic. If anything is OMGUS it's your accusation of OMGUS. Instead of accounting for yourself over a relatively simple matter you just flip your shit from the beginning.

[Ythan]

If you're pretending then you're scum. If you truly don't understand and still lash out over it then there's a healthy chance that you're still scum.

[Ythan]

You have

not

explained how it's silly you've just said that it is. And sputtered and fumed.

Stating it's the case doesn't make you any less guilty, especially when you try to state it's the case without owning up to the consequences.

Whether you actually cast a vote has nothing to do with OMGUS. Also, try to actually reason something for once instead of just looking up other words for crazy in a thesaurus.

You did not account for yourself anywhere near completely or we wouldn't be having this talk you fool.

[Ythan]

It's getting circular because you're unable to contribute. You have provided no explanation as to why you say I'm tunneling. It's a pointless one off fluff accusation. I did attack you for distancing from your attack because you did. Now, if you can't keep distancing and meta straight I can break this down and spoon feed it for you.

You

are an idiot. If you truly are done arguing it's a boon for town because you're a shit arguer. All of your contribution is one off bullshit with no substance.

[Ythan]

You can rant and pout all you want. Know that your own claims made in a game thread will find no footing if you are unable to support any of them.

[Ythan]

Haven't read the Ythan Sando exchange.

You are in for a treat.

[Ythan]

It's not productive on his part, but it's perfectly fine to cast a vote even if you expect a poor reaction to it. In fact not doing so is a bit odd.

[Ythan]

You don't know what tunneling is. Orrr what's going on in this thread.

[Ythan]

By the way you

still

need to actually account for how the arguments are bad. Instead of just doing what you're doing, which is nothing.

[Ythan]

You typed two paragraphs. No part of your 208 is validated by this.

[Ythan]

No you? I'd like some insight into that accusation, do show me where I've done what you're saying here. If you want to change the accusation after discovering that you're again not using the right term that will be fine. But do so after you explain how those paragraphs validate or even properly relate to any one point in 208. You can start with just one at a time.

[Ythan]

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. Specifically, no you means deflecting an accusation by turning it on the accuser. The more you know!

Show me an accusation that has been made against me that has not been refuted?

Also you really suck at insults, try a different approach. And to play Mafia.

[Ythan]

Considering that when flat out asked you are unable to provide any support for your accusations I think it's time for you to be quiet and let the real players play.

Fate, if you think this allows scum to fade into the background then you can do something useful and talk to some lurkers rather than just making a one-off.

[Ythan]

stupidity just keeps pushing my buttons

Then get smart?

[Ythan]

Seriously, all you do is make one-offs to the effect that my defenses are not good without actually disputing them properly at all. If you want to play pro-town then take an active role in the progress of the game. Address things. Post smart. Get involved.

[Ythan]

stupidity just keeps pushing my buttons

Then get smart?

Ythan, why can't you just be a respectable player like everyone else? Why must you ALWAYS personally attack people. It gets old REAL effing old.

Grid, why can't you contribute something meaningful to, instead of lurking the fuck out of, this thread when I know you're active elsewhere on the site? Are you going to be the worst player ever here too?

[Ythan]

Point one, Sando plays like a human and I have seen the extent of his response to my attack.

Point two, Grid is astronomically, incomprehensibly, cosmically anti-town in any role and needs to be either lynched or NKed as soon as is convenient.

Therefore

unvote vote McGriddle

You have never in the handful of games I've played with you been anything but a pox on town and I don't expect that it will be any different here.

[Ythan]

That is a possible, not waterproof but possible, and also valid explanation for an accusation made against you. My gratitude for this hint of proper play after a long, long drought is beyond measure. Thank you Grid.

[Ythan]

In case I wasn't clear before, I'll find all the scum

after

this page is complete. Because right now there are only nine pages and change.

[Ythan]

Thank you

No need to thank me. One nice post doesn't outweigh the total of my negative posts against you. If you feel grateful then please just take an active role in this game as recompense.

[Ythan]

It's a stretch to say you believe Fate's post was a serious call for a PL.

[Ythan]

Can't ignore Grid, his play is somewhere between blatant scum and very anti-town. Not being able to tell the difference makes it worse.

[Ythan]

If you smack him his face will be stuck like that.

[Ythan]

I just finished up with a mountain of work, so, ready.

[Ythan]

Getting started with my super serious analysis so.

unvote

I'm normally perceived as being town, even when I am actually scum.

Your words.

I almost never vote for someone until I have a good enough reason to do so. In the RVS I always toss out a vote and leave it there until I have a good reason to change it.

There's absolutely nothing happening in this game. Normally I'm much more active than this, but there's nothing really to discuss. So in the spirit of getting things going, let's start a wagon on the most vocal player:

Unvote, Vote: Ythan

I choose the most vocal player, because I know he'll respond and get discussion going. Hopefully more than just one-liner 'you're an idiot' type of posting though.

These two quotes are in immediate succession in your iso. First, to address the two posts together, this seems to be a contradiction. To address the latter post on its own, you tried to start a wagon on the most vocal player to make him talk more. You explain in your next post.

That wasn't my reason...misrep much? If you read my post I clearly stated that I voted for the "most vocal" in hopes that he'd add more than just a ton of one-liner posts that aren't really adding. Quantity is not better than quality. He has a high quantity of posts that don't amount to much. Then again no one, myself included, does. However, I feel that if Ythan starts contributing more content, rather than small content-less posts, than discussion will follow. Failing that people will jump on me, which has already started, resulting in discussion. Either result is beneficial.

You say here that you wanted me to make posts with more content, but you yourself admit that nobody else is posting much content either. So, not a watertight explanation. I am also wary of claims that you were offering yourself as bait for scum. The simpler explanation is that you just said something questionable.

So, let me get this straight. You find it more likely that I'd jump in there and say: "Nothing's going on, so I'm going to start discussion even if it puts the focus on me." if I were scum?

Very plain WIFOM.

For the reasons I've stated, I felt my vote made more sense on Ythan. Applying a vote that would undoubtedly be discredited as an OMGUS, would only allow him to twist things further, if that was his intention. It might not have been an intentional misrep, rather than getting lost in communication anyway. So, I'm still not completely certain on whether or not he intended to take my reasoning out of context. It seems that way, but I'm not certain enough.

You're soft-selling/distancing from a case and also saying that you think the "post more content" vote you had placed on me was somehow still better left there than moved to someone from whom you saw questionable content.

This is the first thing that really concerns me in this thread. I admit I haven't posted much, but I never lose track of what I was thinking at the time of a post. In every game I've played in, I've never had a hard time remembering why I said something that I had said. It's one thing if you change your mind on someone, but to forget why you had a read on someone? I'm not so sure.

Do you think this is scummy or did you just want to make it clear that you found it odd?

Now, Fate, his most recent post calling for a policy lynch really seals it for me. I think he is the scummiest in his actions. I am starting to believe that my initial thought was right and he was intentionally misrepping my post. He's apparently willing to risk lynching town just so there is less of an exchange between Ythan and Sando. That's not a pro-town state of mind.

Unvote, Vote: Fate

Do you still think this?

[Ythan]

I wish I had a daykill right now, I would have definitely used it on you McGriddle. In my experience, surveys such as this serve only to draw attention away from real discussion. Actually, they also end up giving the person writing the survey a free pass while everyone else squabbles over the answers. There is no reason to trap scum when they do obv scummy things like surveys. You know, in the future I am probably going to start policy voting players who do surveys.

It's starting discussion... how do you see it as scummy? And we're not giving McG a free pass just because he made up the questions... Ythan even asked him to answer them himselves.

I'm not yet to the point of commenting on Grid and the survey itself, but I will say that if you don't dispute Konowa's logic behind the problem of surveys, but only exempt Grid because we asked him to participate, then you should think twice. Asking him to participate came after. It does not indicate that his motivations were not as Konowa said.

What's the point of a McG wagon? You see him as scummy because he asked questions?

Leech, possibly, but I don't see McGriddle as scum right now

@horror: If you do not see Leech as scum, then why did you say the above?

Good question... I really don't know what I was thinking at the time

Something to take note of, speaks for itself.

[Ythan]

sheesh, I am just trying to get conversation going. There is nothing about that that is distracting.

It is all about what kind of players people are so in the future of the game we know their style of play.

Also there is nothing going on in the game.

Do you think the bolded is meaningful or constructive at all?

Vote: Ythan

for being mean to everyone ever, and accusing my questions of being scummy. They are general questions, not really that special.

This is really plainly OMGUS without any reference to scummy behavior.

Whoops meant konowa

Unvote, Vote: Konowa

Even when you get it on the right person. Did you consider your first vote (very first) to be anything more than RV?

EBWODP: and he also looks like he is jumping at a quick wagon after what f1fi said. BTW f1fi don't hold a grudge on me for that other game I am not allowed to speak about lol.

Please explain this.

For that post? Reads as newbie to me.

I have been playing this game too long to let this slip go untouched.

Unvote, Vote: Ythan

You rarely ever use the reads newbie excuse, you are usually the one arguing against that tell.

Where to begin. You call it a slip. You say rarely, which I find both debatable and also sufficient to allow for doing it here. You call it an excuse, which just doesn't make sense. And as for arguing against the tell, please elaborate. All of this is compounded of course by the fact that I was commenting on a specific post and not using it to clear the player.

What Ythan? I'm an idiot? Is that not mod killable? personal attacks?

Aiming for a MK is more anti-town than anything you can say I've done in this thread.

nothing is really sticking out to me.

And this in your very next post.

No I do not. Ythan is scum. And you are right. Long standing grudge, but that's not affecting my vote.

You never really provided any evidence for your vote. Now that you've gone from a vote to this it's even worse. Your grudge is

clearly

affecting, nay, dictating your vote.

[Ythan]

Is that... a...

Baccano! avatar!!!?!?

YTHAN LETS BE FRIENDS!

How do you like this one? So much better.

Nah don't settle for Magna, Thatguy was definitely the way to go.

Unvote:

Vote: Thatguy

Why please.

LEECH

I know I already did yours but I want to say it's a stretch to call Fate's iso 5 a scummy misrep of your vote. Sort of exactly the same as you later did with his "policy lynch". I don't buy it.

[Ythan]

Ahaha, lets badnwagon sando indeed.

unvote vote Sando

Wish you could explain why.

Nothing to say about Fitz yet.

[Ythan]

Oh yeah Fitz, what has your avatar been in the past?

[Ythan]

Vote: Ythan

for complaining about my second post. You ask a question and bitch about the response? This is going to be loads of fun I can tell

Disproportionately whiny. A taste of what is to come.

I think we have more in common than Baccano.

Any reason you want to buddy up to Fate here?

Or get modkilled. That also solves the problem

So the obvious solution is to get modkilled somehow instead of calling you on your short, reactionary posts and general lack of content (aside from Post 54)? I think I'll see where option two leads, thank you.

I trust that your failure to understand these points has been cleared up by now.

Do you believe that bouncing around your vote with at best superficial reasoning is anything other than Anti-town / scummuy?

How are you going to explain that it

is

anti-town or scummy?[/quote]

Earnestly trying to drum up a wagon, noted.

I suppose asking a player to defend their actions and positions is trying to drum up a wagon. Glad you noted it as that's the basis of the game we are playing.

This is a clear misrep instead of addressing anything relevant.

Trying to drum up a wagon on smoke and mirrors. Scummy.

How is this not exactly what you are doing?

You still were doing this and I still never was.

1. What do you think of Ythan's posts so far? Do you think he is scum-hunting?

I find that contributions like this tend to be active lurking and a common way to build a case as scum.

What observations do you agree with?

Your activity reads as promoting a fluffy back and forth regarding myself instead of scum-hunting.

Ythan's posts are specifically crafted in a way to most shield himself from scrutiny.

I can't see a pro-town reason to make this up.

They are brief. He has usually dismissed criticism as scummy, newbish or simply stated it was wrong without providing support.

You forgot to explain how the criticism was not just that. It's key to this point you were trying to make.

Is this scummy? Perhaps.

Soft selling or distancing from an attack, whichever you want to call it.

[Ythan]

Ythan, it seems he also got lynched on day one of the game he did it as scum. I guess I don't need to tell you that, since you were there. But I found that somewhat interesting.

What is the meaning of this? You were obviously trying to do something by posting this. Oh, but you answer with this.

Interesting in the way that it was coincidental... Konowa wants to lynch him day one for posting that survey.

Konowa wants to lynch him. The day is regardless. Your previous post is still suspiciously out of the blue.

I'm not voting for him for that. You're awfully quick to point that finger at me.

OMGUS accusation.

Ok, my bad. You're quick to vote for me.

Just like Ooba, Magna twice, Mcgriddle, Sandro and 1ifiri. Granted, I'm confident two of those are RV, but you're hopping around a good amount.

And yet you still found the vote on you notable?

unvote: vote: Ythan

Jesus. Here, being a man and putting a vote on you. I think it's ridiculous, you've voted so many damn times I don't know what exactly you're trying to accomplish? Are you just voting to see if you can get people on board with you? I don't get it, everybody seems to be a major suspect to you.

You make no reference to any scummy behavior here. It's just a follow up to the OMGUS accusation.

To keep it short, at the time I wasn't ready to cast a vote, it was more of pointing it out at the time, and making note of it. Now I come back and see Ythan is still leading us nowhere and is throwing out short responses as commentary to everybody elses posts. EVERYbody is obviously scum, and eventually, one of his votes is going to stick and lead to a bandwagon.

Leading you? Commentary? Scum-tell please. Also, when Leech I believe said I was calling everyone obvscum he at least promptly admitted his mistake.

Right now, to be honest, the way Ythan has been working, it just reads town to me, I think Ythan is actually doing some scum hunting.

This or the

immediately preceding post

in your iso is probably disingenuine.

So to answer your question, I'm thinking Leech

vote leech

. The way he attempts to defend himself just seems like a clever ploy for scum. So right now, personally, he's my best bet.

You pretty much just said scummy because scummy. More please.

Look, it's day one, I've got nothing more to go on then my gut instinct, and they way they read,

This doesn't jive with the reasonings for your earlier accusations.

[Ythan]

Oh yeah Fitz, what has your avatar been in the past?

Will Farrell playing some cowbell.

Now I remember, you were my IC in another game I think.

[Ythan]

Accusing someone of distancing off an RVS vote is silly, and Konowa seems to be continuing the tradition.

Why please.

You use RVS to defend your actions with:

Do you have any idea what RVS is? There's a wiki for things like this, it's linked at the top of each page.

Yet you attack me for 'distancing' in an RVS vote.

I wasn't distancing, which is what you just said I accused you of.

112 and 115 are good examples of scumhunting. He has identified conflicting statements and draws attention to them. He also tries to ensure that earlier questions are not ignored or forgotten by players.

Your thoughts on the fact that he was also tunneling? Is that something that concerns you?

When his original post is answered, he follows up. He's showing conviction and intent, he's not just doing it to look good. Town scumhunt to find scum, hence with conviction and intent, scum scumhunt to find town and confused town, hence without conviction of their arguments, because they know that they're lying.

And you don't feel that any other player in this game did the same?

Ythans attacking of Magna looks pretty similar to what he's accusing Grid of doing. Seems out of character for Ythan, but I've only got a very small sample size here.

I still believe that your "sample size" does not justify a legitimate call here on what's in or out of character for me, which indicates that this is bad.

You're tunneling Magna, who is pretty consistently scumhunting. You're basically doing what you're accusing Grid of doing.

I am and was looking at more than one player, so I was not and have not at any point been tunneling. It's ironic you'd accuse me of that considering Magna, who you call a consistent scum-hunter, was doing just that.

So wait, you attack me because there's a small sample size, we haven't played together much. Then you attack me for saying that...

You're insane.

Don't bother accounting for yourself, just call me insane and ignore the rest.

Clearly OMGUS? Maybe you should clear up your other problems before you give yourself more to talk your way out of.

I say something bad about you, you turn around and vote me, with absolutely insane logic. Yeah, clear OMGUS.

I find that trying to paint a vote that happens to closely coincide with an attack as OMGUS without any less circumstantial evidence is a common scum tactic. Along with accusations of tunneling when they don't properly apply, which you've also done.

I've explained how your accusation was just plain silly,

That never actually happened.

given you've accused me of something that I readily stated was the case prior to that.

Doesn't change anything.

I've also never voted you, and I haven't even accused you of being scum here, your accusation that I've OMGUS'd you is similarly ludicrous.

I think you misunderstand what OMGUS is. It need not apply specifically to a vote.

I think that you're tunelling on Magna, and I think this is out of character from how you've played this game - I haven't and won't back away from this.

Except I clearly wasn't tunneling and despite that you haven't tried to explain some interesting explanation as to why you think I was. And, that can't possibly be "out of character" for how I'd played this game. What was it contradicting that I had done earlier?

You decided to attack me for not knowing your meta, considering that I'd already qualified my statement about your play to say it was based on a small sample size, your accusation was stupid.

Qualifying it doesn't change anything and calling it stupid out of the blue just highlights the fact that you don't have any substance to post.

You've attacked me for not distancing by saying that I don't know your meta, and you've accused me of distancing away from my accusation, in the same post. You're an idiot.

You did two things worth pointing out and I did both. Also don't bitch out please we're not even a dozen pages in at that point.

I'm done with this argument, I should never try and argue with an idiot, they bring you down to their level then win with experience. You can keep your OMGUS vote on me, I'll leave it to others to sort through your tangled mess of logical fallacies.

Anti-town and more bitchy/whiny.

When I discussed why I felt Magna was pro-town at this point, you felt I was over-interpreting his actions. Given that I only have his actions to interpret, this is a null-statement that basically means nothing.

No you just didn't understand it properly. You were making interpretations too broad for the small amount of evidence.

I felt you were looking for a reason, any reason, to reject my reasoning on him being town. Your reply was a flippant 1 liner backed by no evidence.

Your reasoning was a pointless one-off backed by no evidence. Do you expect that I will need to break out the rocket science to dispute that?

You then disagree with my statement that scum rarely have reason to hunt scum.

This never happened.

You state, in your case for why I am incorrect, that scum have reason to hunt scum because it helps them fulfill their win condition.

Oh I see, you're just misrepping me as saying that scum need to hunt scum when I said that scum need to appear to hunt scum.

hence tunnelling.

You keep saying that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

[Ythan]

I expect to see something from ooba today.

[Ythan]

And nothing on Konowa thus far. Vote upcoming.

[Ythan]

Leech contradicted his claim regarding his voting style. His wagoning on me is odd. His explanation for the same is not up to snuff. I don't buy his claims regarding being bait for scum, I think that's just an afterthought to cover himself. He soft sells a case on and then votes Fate based on two posts he clearly misinterpreted and I think it's a stretch to say that he really didn't understand them.

Grid has OMGUS, a flimsy and over the top attack on me based on a newb read (not newb tell) of a post, aims for an MK, has an odd comment about nothing stick out despite all that, and acts sure of his case on me despite the fact that it doesn't exist.

Magna consistently makes arguments based on poor logic and tunnels.

Thatguy made a weird post early on that was never accounted for properly, OMGUS accuses me of being quick to vote him over questioning it even though he seems aware that I was bouncing my vote around, votes me with no content regarding scumminess, continues this after the vote, seems to contradict himself in a positive comment about me (not in that it was positive, read my thatguy iso for the content), doesn't provide any reasoning when he votes Leech either, and then seems to contradict his entire hunting process at the end.

Sando argues that scum can't distance in RVS, consistently defends the tunneler Magna and singles him out of all players to praise, tries to meta me without meta, doesn't feel a need to expalain the same but just gets to bitching, pretends he properly explained things he didn't, and often claims I'm tunneling and OMGUS without any support which are both common to scum.

Gonna vote one of these.

[Ythan]

Grid is a good vig target but based on what I know of his play it's a tossup whether he's scum or not. He should not be the lynch today. So, Leech or Magna or thatguy or Sando.

[Ythan]

However you are known for posting a lot in games and eventually offering up a lot of content.

I don't think this is true. Where did you hear this?

I wasn't really distancing from a case, I was unsure of whether or not my suspicions were accurate or if I was simply chasing ghosts. I felt at the time that the vote on you served a greater purpose. Now, looking back, I realize that my play was actually rather stupid. I'll be the first to admit that my original idea wasn't thoroughly thought out, and I should have thought about what I was doing more before I did it. It made sense at the time, but not so much looking back.

This is another explanation that could be true but is still not as good as if the incident had never occurred. Know what I mean?

[Ythan]

I have a soft spot for the occasional suspicious player who actually answers questions, so I'm going to wait and see if anyone else will oblige as well.

[Ythan]

Red hair, white suit. Yes, Claire.

[Ythan]

That's the plan anyway.

[Ythan]

No we wait and see if he's modkilled, blacklisted, and banned first.

[Ythan]

Admitting that you're scum is the problem, now we just need to sort out if it's true, if you're taking a dive for another player, etc.

[Ythan]

You can get indignant when you play to your win condition, ie follow the site rules.

[Ythan]

Here are the options. He's town who's unhappy with the game and is trying to throw it off. I saw this once in a newbie game where a VT claimed doc, forcing the real doc to CC. Not the same claim, but if throwing a wrench into the game is the aim it's one possibility.

He's scum and honestly wants out.

In either of these cases he has repercussions coming his way.

Or, he's scum taking a dive for other scum.

[Ythan]

D1 is just as fun as any other day PLUS everyone gets to play.

[Ythan]

I apologize, I thought that was pretty standard. I didn't intend to ruffle any feathers.

[Ythan]

Explain your suspicions more than just providing a name and a link. Also, claims are for keeping a town PR from the noose. Asking for one now serves no purpose for a town player.

[Ythan]

Thatguy, why is D2 easier for you?

Everyone other that thatguy, thoughts on this?

You're right, I'm total scum.

[Ythan]

If that's the case he should tell us or he really won't be playing to his wincon.

[Ythan]

Like I said, a claim is not to aid in anyone's investigations but to keep a PR from being lynched.

[Ythan]

Firstly for someone who expects everyone to answer your questions you sure don’t practice what you preach.

Except that wasn't about me being asked questions at all so that goes beyond meaningless to straight disconnected.

I don’t think a player bouncing around their vote on a consistent basis is at best anti-town.

Except not a consistent basis. Don't worry, further observation on your part will clear that misconception right up.

You’ve already contradicted yourself regarding whether your behavior was RVS voting or ‘strong attacking’.

Please do use context when you respond, such as indicators that this never happened. If you feel that you have any evidence to the contrary, that would have been a great place to include it.

I’d ask you to respond again to my question – Do you believe that voting with no support isn’t anti-town / scummy, in light of the fact that you stated it was not random voting?

I did answer your question. Take a level in comprehension to see that I said it's fine, or one in context reading to catch it on your own next time without having to ask.

Both opinions with which I disagree. If you don’t like my style of play feel free to say so but don’t pretend your style is the only logical way to play the game and every other way is inherently scummy.

Take criticism better, especially if you're going to play in a way that's likely to draw it.

It’s the way your play reads to me.

How short a time it took for disagreeing with playstyle to become acceptable.

Which, based on the statements you made that I just quoted is a perfectly acceptable way to attack someone. You don’t answer questions when asked. Reference 112 to116 for a perfect example of your behavior in this regard.

I did answer those actually. I even pointed out to you afterward that you are simply a poor reader.

[Ythan]

Why did you replace into this game. I think it's time to replace out if you can't do anything for eleven days.

[Ythan]

Considering that all you can do is reprimand me for my discourtesy I guess you're done pretending anything you said before has any merit?

[Ythan]

Happy scumday Sando. And where are you getting prob-scum on thatguy, especially as a consensus? As for my "style over substance" and "misrepresentations", if you can't even point a single thing out when you make that claim just save your pointless fluff accusations for a newbie game where they might actually do something.

[Ythan]

Acceptance of their fate isn't how newb-town reacts in this situation.

It's preposterous to make this call with such certainty in an attempt to push a lynch when it's clearly not any kind of absolute. There are 2 options here, you're mistaken-town or fumbled-scum.

[Ythan]

Your reasoning does not validate the statement, and your forceful claims her regarding my misrepresentation are even more ridiculous than what you could have left as possibly a mistake on your part. To pursue such a baseless accusation with such force, is that what you want to do?

[Ythan]

If ooba doesn't feel that your vote is going anywhere then it shouldn't be difficult for him to remain cool over it regardless of his alignment.

[Ythan]

I've been chainsawing, have I? That's too bold an accusation to one-off without some sort of support, and I'd like to see that from you now.

[Ythan]

Sando, instead of ever making any real arguments against me, ever, you just carry on with your idiotic bullshit to the effect that I should be lynched in the absence of any intelligent case from you but instead just through constant moronic blithering. I don't think you're a stupid stupid townie, I think you're a very poor scum player.

vote Sando

And it's staying there as long as you keep up your stupid, scummy, fluffy, no-content play style.

[Ythan]

To me. He's making what can pass as believable, though not really meaningful, points or questions at the players he isn't currently attempting to portray as scum. As poor as his attempts toward me are, it would just be moronic to direct it at two players.

[Ythan]

I actually address the things he says. If that's something you tend to have a problem with you should spend more time reading his posts, where you'll get your fill. As for his bit against ooba, I didn't say I disagreed. It's not meaningful because it's not going anywhere and he's just maintaining an appearance of not tunneling.

[Ythan]

Do you have any specific questions for Fitz or do you just want to seem active?

[Ythan]

Are you talking about 920? He wasn't right, he was lucky with a shot in the dark. If you were reading the endgame then his portrayal of his successes in that game is highly overstated. And regardless, even if you think he did well there it's no reason to depend on him here more than anyone else.

[Ythan]

Fate, obviously.

[Ythan]

Please please please give us post numbers.

[Ythan]

Get off the coattails Grid. If that's too much to ask then at least contribute something when you post.

[Ythan]

I'm not going to blindly follow him onto any lynches, of course, but I might actually take his suspects into consideration.

My experiences with Grid indicate that he's not good and seems scummy regardless of his alignment. He should not be lynched unless we know there's no vig to kill him.

Oh I meant to take Ythan off an

Unvote

Off that list?

Magna was never hunting, let alone well, let alone alone.

[Ythan]

How have you been more active than Konowa?

[Ythan]

On one hand, we don't know that Konowa isn't busy. On the other, your own inactivity has no bearing on his.

[Ythan]

I don't think that it's scummy. It's pretty much what I do, I just sometimes phrase my points as accusations rather than questions.

[Ythan]

What I can provide is evidence of you going after me, but there doesn't seem to be any contention over that. What I can not link you to is you not going after anyone else because it's something that didn't happen that I'm talking about. If you'd like to show where you were focusing on someone other than me then the matter will be settled simply.

[Ythan]

even though I feel your methods are a bit anti-town.

Fluffy one-off.

Do you see how I could think this, though?

No but I can believe that you would.

[Ythan]

This took me all of five minutes using the ISO function. You clearly are smart enough to use the feature yourself.

Do you really have to be such a little bitch about holding your end of the game up?

[Ythan]

It's laughable reading over the posts you just provided and remembering that you're pretending they're any kind of evidence that you're not tunneling.

[Ythan]

@McGriddle – For someone who made a point to chastise Ythan about mixing yourself and another player up you certainly are defensive when called on the same behavior. Are you normally this jumpy about minor things?

@thatguy – So far you’ve made two OMGUS style vote (in RVS, granted) and not much else. Why didn’t you vote for Ythan when you pointed out his super-ball style vote bouncing?

You ask Grid if he's normally jumpy. You ask thatguy why he didn't vote for me.

@thatguy00 – Back at 90 I asked for some input from you. Could you please answer my question as to why it took so long for you to vote for Ythan? Just voting for him doesn’t resolve the question.

You ask thatguy to support his vote on me.

1. What do you think of Ythan's posts so far? Do you think he is scum-hunting?
2. Is McGriddle's lack of scum-hunting more anti-town than The1fifi, Fate, Broken and ooba (who will still be gone for another week on V/LA) all of who haven't really made any serious scum hunting efforts?

@ Leech - Who do you find most suspicious currently?

@ McGriddle - Do you have any other suspects other than Ythan?

You ask Konowa what he thinks of my posts and questions about other players. You ask Leech who he finds suspicious. You ask Grid who he finds suspicious. Did you remember that you were supposed to be providing evidence that you're not posting, not that you never talked to anyone else? Do you know what tunneling is?

What observations do you agree with?

Ythan's posts are specifically crafted in a way to most shield himself from scrutiny. They are brief. He has usually dismissed criticism as scummy, newbish or simply stated it was wrong without providing support.

Is this scummy? Perhaps. But also it may simply be a carefully honed tactic to try to irritate players into overzealous responses, looking for the Over-defensiveness he indicated was a scum-tell.

Unvote: Ythan

@ McGriddle - Other than taking pot-shots at Ythan for what appears to be a long standing grudge between the two do you have any other suspicious suspects?

You asked Konowa another not-attacking question, so more not-evidence. You ask Grid if he has any suspects again, so more of the above. Oh and you soft-unvote me.

1. What changed between your ISO 9 and 11 that Ythan went from a scummy person to an effective scumhunter? Please provide some support.

2. What about Leech's defense of himself seems like a ploy? Provide some detail. At first blush this looks like opportunistic voting by someone looking to find a wagon and hop on. Your vote back at ISO 9 looks more and more like this also.

Woo you actually lightly accuse someone. Step in the direction of looking like someone who knows what Mafia is.

@havingfitz and danakillsu – You both have had sufficient time to review the thread. Please give us your thoughts.

@horrordude – What happened to your comments?

You ask two for their thoughts and horror about comments. More of more of more of the above.



So the only thing that can be used as actual evidence that you're not tunneling is 13.

[Ythan]

EBWOP And of course, you provided enough pro-tunneling evidence in those posts to counter it.

[Ythan]

Will pay good money to see horrordude v McGriddle.

[Ythan]

You must be reading me in isolation if you're going to try to ascribe personal attacks wholly to me.

[Ythan]

What is it with the people in this game going to the extremes? I never said you're alone in the personal attacks. You do have a rather condescending attitude when someone questions you. It makes it difficult to decipher your actual points from your attacks. If you have a problem being perceived in that manner, you could always focus more on the game and less on making snide comments that serve no purpose.

And tell me, what is the purpose of this post?

please give reasoning for your supects

no[/quote]Vig bait.

He has been very abrasive this game which I do not recall from our last game.

And what game was that, fitz?

[Ythan]

Fucking code.

please give reasoning for your supects

no

Vig bait.

[Ythan]

Really, you don't think I acted like this there?

[Ythan]

Good lord what is your avatar Konowa.

[Ythan]

When he says you're worried, I think he just means that you allow an expectation of OMGUS accusations to deter your vote.

[Ythan]

Really do not like Sando's argument here. He's attacking ooba instead of defending himself. And if we do assume that it's a valid question, why do you think bussing is so unlikely on your part? You accuse him of bussing and setting up a lynch, and yet that's more likely than you just bussing?

[Ythan]

Show me some examples?

[Ythan]

You made these statements in regards to Kowona when you defended him from Horrordude. Why do you feel the need to defend Kowona? Horrordude’s attack was poor IMO and you didn’t allow Kowona to defend himself.

I didn't allow Konowa to defend himself? Untrue. He can do that just fine.

[Ythan]

Read Magna's iso for suspicions of thatguy and a continuation of our conversation. But don't hold your breath. He switched to thatguy because the wagon might actually go somewhere, ie he didn't have to make evidence up himself.

[Ythan]

Except I did and you're just blowing bullshit-scented smoke.

[Ythan]

@thatguy – So far you’ve made two OMGUS style vote (in RVS, granted) and not much else. Why didn’t you vote for Ythan when you pointed out his super-ball style vote bouncing?

@thatguy00 – Back at 90 I asked for some input from you. Could you please answer my question as to why it took so long for you to vote for Ythan? Just voting for him doesn’t resolve the question.

I'm asking for information from thatguy. I can't very well be leading a bandwagon on him if my vote is on you, can I?/quote]

@thatguy – Since you’ve started to feel some heat you seem to have disappeared from the discussion. Please provide another player other than Ythan you find suspicious.

1. What changed between your ISO 9 and 11 that Ythan went from a scummy person to an effective scumhunter? Please provide some support.

2. What about Leech's defense of himself seems like a ploy? Provide some detail. At first blush this looks like opportunistic voting by someone looking to find a wagon and hop on. Your vote back at ISO 9 looks more and more like this also.

Everyone other that thatguy, thoughts on this?

It reads to as a frustrated response from someone unprepared for the scrutiny that can be involved in a Mafia game. Null-tell in my eyes.

@thatguy – If you are still bothering to read the thread what about Day 2 (other than perhaps knowing a few dead player’s affiliation) turns you into someone who can make a solid contribution from your self-described ‘shitty Day 1 player’?

Thatguy – He’s votes this game have been OMGUS (in RVS) and not much else. He quickly backs off his opinion when challenged in the slightest. I find his statement that he’s a bad player on Day 1 but much better on Day 2 ludicrous given his meltdown under minor pressure.

Yeah you're not opportunistic.

unvote vote MagnaofIllusion

Between the two scum I think I'll go with Magna today.

[Ythan]

Guy I know you're online, you should really post.

[Ythan]

Thankfully ooba will be posting today to comment more generally on other players.

[Ythan]

Thatguy seems unfamiliar with the purpose of claims. You claim when you're going to be lynched to keep from being lynched. If you don't want to be outed as a PR then don't get to L-1. It's part of the game. I agree with ooba's timeline for the rest of the day, by the by.

[Ythan]

If you just requested a prod, maybe more will show up.

[Ythan]

So your first opinion was legit and the next one was a contradiction to get things moving for you.

[Ythan]

Because they're the three longest flaked?

[Ythan]

McGriddle is both terrible and an OMGUS hypocrite. He's going to continue to say he has a case and just go and go and go without actually making one. Trust me.

[Ythan]

Lurker fucks. Get on the ball. We don't want a no lynch.

unvote vote McGriddle

Better than ooba wagon.

[Ythan]

McGriddle would best serve as vig food but under this deadline he is a good place to consolidate.

[Ythan]

Why is a McGriddle wagon better than an ooba one?

I don't find any cases on ooba compelling in the least.

When you moved over to McGriddle both he and ooba had two votes.

Yeah that's why I bothered to differentiate those two.

If McG is better served as a vig target (which...how do we know there even is one?) why not consolidate on ooba?

I said this already. Deadline.

[Ythan]

Thank you for your contribution.

[Ythan]

Do you want to post something relevant to the thread now?

[Ythan]

It will be a NL regardless the way activity in this thread is. Consolidation plz.

[Ythan]

Insight into what an ooba flip will teach us?

[Ythan]

He will not learn, fyi.

[Ythan]

He's anti-town, not anti-everyone. If you're scum (and he's town) he's lovely.

[Ythan]

VT shouldn't claim. Because it doesn't matter and we'll lynch you anyway.

[Ythan]

Fitz and Sando have explaining and voting to do.

[Ythan]

Distancing from stance noted. Someone hammer please.

[Ythan]

Two question. Who was that, and what was their role?

[Ythan]

Yeah the site is taking a shit on us at the moment.

[Ythan]

"Business Partner" is the same part of the line where Grid's role was listed, but is in quotes and I have no idea what it is. fff

[Ythan]

And I don't think it's a slip to cast a vote in his situation.

[Ythan]

He called Grid a vig and Fate something unique.

[Ythan]

Woo!

[Ythan]

I think the three of us can confirm that Magna was telling the truth regarding the stamp, as well as Konowa if he saw it himself.

[Ythan]

I may also be a bit busy through Saturday but I should at least be able to stay involved with what is currently going on at any time.

[Ythan]

I think you're making up at least one thing in 489.

I assume you're thinking the neighborhood has at least two members remaining?

Horror did not slip up on timestamps.

[Ythan]

At least one thing, and, your plan to have the neighbor claim would make no sense at all if only one remained.

[Ythan]

At least one thing out of a group of things. Do I need to use puppets for this?

Now, explain to me the value of your plan if there is one remaining neighbor.

[Ythan]

You were shot second, ma'am. That other black fellow was lynched first.

[Ythan]

Blech, blatant wagon hopping.

[Ythan]

Blech, using narrow definitions of terms to pretend you're not riding coattails.

[Ythan]

So dana turns every defense into this.

[Ythan]

Proving you're not voting the way scum would? Is that how you meant to phrase that?

[Ythan]

I ask because you didn't prove anything, you made an argument in your defense, and because the whole subject of "I'm not acting like scum would" is WIFOM.

[Ythan]

You really haven't had much of an argument in return,

I'm pushing a particular point against you right now. If you want to defend by saying it's not enough then there is certainly something up.

so I think I have proven it as much as is humanly possible.

How?

As to your other "point", it doesn't work at all. If you want to try playing mafia believing that everything that has to do with someone being scum is WIFOM, you are most certainly welcome to.

Straw man. Your argument was obvious WIFOM. I called that one argument WIFOM. This is more of you demanding that I validate one point by adding more. Which is stupid. Plus still straw man.

But don't pretend like we have to accept it. Scum acts a certain way. That's why we are able to vote with any amount of confidence. You can't say that I'm not able to defend myself because any defense is WIFOM.

I don't think you know what WIFOM is. If you do then you're misrepresenting not only me but what terms mean.

Nobody can actually play this game that way. If I'm scum, I will act a certain way most of the time. There's no getting around that. If I can show that I'm NOT acting that way, everyone should believe I'm not scum.

Stupid defense.

How much longer do I have to go on explaining how this game is played?

Learn for yourself first.

I'm actually kind of annoyed by people using "WIFOM" at all.

You're the one who used it when you defended yourself with it.

The only reason I use the term is because other people accuse me of it.

Because you do it.

The whole idea of WIFOM is hurtful to the town, because everyone feels that they can't know anything with any amount of certainty.

Ugh are you seriously in something other than a newbie game with this kind of thought process?

You are welcome to attempt to rebut this argument, but this will be my last post on this subject.

Bullshit meter getting low?

After this, you should make a case if you want to say I'm doing something wrong.

vote danakillsu

[Ythan]

Prolific vote hopping when? If you don't want to look it up yourself, answer is RVS.

[Ythan]

Because of connections between the two or because they're your top two suspects? Leech is innocent btw.

[Ythan]

Prolific vote hopping when? If you don't want to look it up yourself, answer is RVS.

If this question is directed to me, I was inferring vote hopping from the fact you had placed you vote at one time or another on 8 of the 11 non-Ythan players in the game. Seems a mite hoppy to me.

Decide how it's relevant if you're going to keep that line of investigation up.

[Ythan]

He's not posting. I still think he's more than 50% scum.

[Ythan]

He has been very abrasive this game which I do not recall from our last game.

And what game was that, fitz?

Newbie 894.

Really, you don't think I acted like this there?

I wanted a response to this.

[Ythan]

Why is fitz not voting?

Since that question is not directed at me I will ignore it.

This was right before the deadline when we were having trouble consolidating a lynch.

Fitz why are you not voting?

Followed by this which he didn't answer.

[Ythan]

I need to ISO and look over the cases on Sando and thatguy (based on D1 VC). They both received a lot of attention day one so I want better sight of what brought them that attention. With thatguy it's pretty clear, but I don't recall from my read what has Sando in people's crosshairs. Ythan's prolific vote hopping (has voted 8 of 11 so far) has me intrigued as well.

Please do get around to your analyses. Even if you have to ride waves of popular opinion to get to them it's still better than the lack of anything we get from you otherwise.