Oldy Mafia (Game Over, who won?)

[Ether]

I'm vanilla. Also, grumpy.

Huck, why's Shanba scum, and conversely, why's MBL town?

[Ether]

I continue to not support this (and think that Porochaz is really obvscum anyway and this discussion can wait for a day), and also continue to be sick to death of defending a guy who's not even fucking posting.

[Ether]

I'm insinuating that by lynching you and having the Glork discussion tomorrow, we don't really lose anything and there's a possibility that this discussion may even become moot. (This is not something I have any plans to elaborate on.) Maybe you'll even flip roleblocker or something nice!

For one thing I'd add in an information role that had more than one shot. Pretty sure that's 100% standard, Porochaz. (There could be some unclaimed thing waiting in the wings, of course; this is your hypothetical, not mine. More reason to lynch you first and give this hypothetical person another night!)

At this point my position is less that Glork is a shining beacon of towniness and more that we don't lynch the uncounterclaimed cop. I'm sick of Glork--as a player, as a human being, as a topic of discussion, as some fucking lurker I need to defend--and it's kind of been wearing down my resolve. He's literally haunted my dreams, you know.

[Ether]

Ahahahahahaha.

[Ether]

After my last post, what the fuck do you expect me to say? How much more disillusioned do I have to

get?

He's picked up a prod like an hour ago.

[Ether]

A note about the timing of Glork's claim: a real cop would be more afraid of Ythill there than scum would. Scum were already probably gonna kill him that night; assuming they had a roleblocker, it'd be simple to just block him as well and let the knowledge of his kill attempt die with him. This assumes a roleblocker, of course.

CDB, what do you think of the Glorkwagon?

[Ether]

I have a possibility, but it's kind of weak. I do think that post was a strike against him.

Adding a roleblocker is pretty standard.

[Ether]

Based on the death (again), CES is town (again).

Let's also

vote: HackerHuck

again. Gurgi, will you be mentally prepared to help me lynch MBL tomorrow?

[Ether]

January 15th.

CDB could be scum. Don't think it's the most likely option; I dunno. I spent most of the night thinking Huck/MBL/Porochaz, but HackerHuck's Chazvote kind of implies that it could be something else.

[Ether]

Who's scum, MBL?

[Ether]

Glork on Huck

That's not a very bold statement, HH. There will almost certainly be at least one scum out of {one third of the living playerlist}.
My pressing question: Why did you omit MBL from that list?

Mulling over where I want to put my vote right now, but it will probably wind up somewhere among {Yos2, Shanba, HackerHuck}.

(to HH) But why is not voting at all a better behavior than being on a different wagon. I wasn't here during the last several hours of the day, so I never had a chance to weigh in on the Mert situation. (FWIW, I wouldn't have switched to Mert, but that's kind of a moot point now.) MBL was around and consciously chose not to contribute to a D1 lynch as well, so why does he get a free pass just because he removed his vote, rather than having it placed somewhere else?

It's bullshit because there's no way you could get ZERO inklings from that wagon at all. If the scums wanted to wagon someone to lynch, then there had to be SOME turning point that made them jump to Mert. If they didn't, then you should be doing what HackerHuck is doing, and closely examining the people who were off-wagon when the lynch went down.

Town motivation: "If I claim vanilla and Yos doesn't answer me, I'll probably die and nothing about Yos will be revealed. If I claim Nurse to force Yos to answer me, then immediately rescind my claim, I'll probably die and something about Yos will be revealed."

Can you not agree with this logic, HH?

That would be weird. HH has been under my radar all game. Now that I think about it, I don't think I've gotten any strong reading on him one way or another, so I'll add him to the list of people I need to look at overnight.

to CES: "Your use of Burden of Proficiency is especially laughable, considering your own voting record. Get past the early-game silliness, and you've been on Ecto(town), FoS'd Ythill (town), inHm (town), Mert (town), back to Yos (town), Shanba (probably scum), CDB (probably scum), but then when it really mattered, back to Yos/inHim, Today you've flipflopped between HH (town) and Shanba.... with a little Glork (town) on the side."

And you're obviously headed down the wrong path today having decided that HH and I are among your top suspects.

PS, HackerHuck is not the play.

I'm the Cop. I investigated MBL as innocent N1, and HH as innocent last night.

MBL is correct here. That post was a critique of HackerHuck's failure to provide sound analysis, not an attempt to sluff suspicion onto MBL.

Huck on Glork

Bound to be at least one scum out of Stark, Lord Gurgi, Shanba, Chamber and Glork. That's where I'm going to start.

I exempted MBL, because I think there is at least one scum in the list of players that were voting for alternate wagons. If you want to bet that there aren't any scum in that list of five, I'd actually take you up on that.

[GLORK]
This is pretty frightening. I've snipped some choice bits out of post 206.

Hard to find much fault with Glork, except that I'm disagreeing with most of his reads up through his first 25 posts. I'm not a fan of the speculation about two separate scum groups. This early, it's either going to be a distraction, or it's a way to cast more suspicion on players and be able to ignore why they couldn't be scum together.
Comparison to Sly Cooper is a big stretch. In that game, he specifically said that he was playing differently and did make that known to the other players. I recall it being a very different Glork than I've seen in this game.

I found Gurgi and Chamber to be townish and Glork was more in the middle.

EBWOP: I suppose (since someone is likely to nitpick) that it's worth noting that MBL removed his vote earlier, but it is still not-on-anybody as we approach deadline.

What may be more important is that Ythill is calling Yos' lack of voting trail scummy while not being so concerned about MBL's.

YTHill - The comment about me confusing your role with DGB seemed a bit too obvious. I'm also with Glork on your VCA. I don't really understand how you're coming to some of those conclusions based on the vote counts you posted.

I'll look at the folks not on the InHim wagon:
Glork, CTD, Ether, and Shanba.

So, I see one scum in this group:
Stark, Lord Gurgi, Shanba, Chamber and Glork
and one scum in this group:
Glork, CTD, Ether, and Shanba

Given the overlap, odds are that we have one scum that avoided both lynches. I still like Ether and Shanba from yesterday, but I'll still take a look through that whole group.

CDB - I just want to correct that I was only mentioning Glork's premonitions as an aside. They really had no bearing on why I felt he was not scummy.

Why the early claim Glork? I saw what you said, but we just started day and Ythill wasn't necessarily riding you that hard.

In rereading Glork's ISO, I was bothered by his decision to investigate me since he had spent most of Day2 focusing on Shanba and Yos as scum.
If you look at the trail from 141-143 in his ISO, there is some evidence of crumbing followed by his statement that I'm not the play for today. I can also see how Glork was crumbing town results on MBL.

I guess my concern with his claim still centers around three things:
1- Why the switch from one of Yos/Shanba to me?
2- Why the lack of concern around sanity
3- The early claim based on very little pressure

I don't think that Glork is the obvious play for today. Although he has been slow to address the concerns around his claim, we're probably looking at three other people who are scum. I also don't see what the scum motivation for making that claim would be. He wasn't under any serious lynch threat and he didn't know that Ythill ran out of shots. So scum were in a pretty good position at that point. I don't really see him taking the risk of the claim when a mislynch and a bad vig would mostly put the game away for them. I would also expect a fake-claim to have a guilty in there to improve the chances of getting a mislynch. Besides, the cop issue should be sorted out on its own within the next couple of days. With the certainty of sanity (although GF could be an issue), we'll put ourselves in a pretty good place to as long as we avoid lynching the claimants and those claimed as investigation targets.

I've acknowledged that he's been 'counterclaimed'. I believe your claim over his, but I'm not certain that your one-shot ability means that he cannot be a full cop. I think Ythill even made a point later that implies that the inclusion of both roles actually weakens them both. I'm also going from the perspective that even if scum, Glork has correctly called two people as innocents. I know I am, and I've felt that MBL is as well.

We were still early in the day and nowhere near a lynch, yet he claimed before even trying to convince Ythill of his innocence.

He knows who the vig is and Ythill has not been shy about who he suspects. If I were scum Glork, I'd wait until we get closer to lynch before I make that kind of a fakeclaim.

That's also not any kind of guarantee, because there could be a GF in the mix that would prevent anyone from truly being confirmed by Glork's death as a townie. We're still essentially left with the same list of suspects to go after.

Even if I go back to my beginning of the day search for suspects - looking at those not on the Inhim lynch, I'm not seeing Glork as the best option. That set of players was Glork, Shanba, CTD, Ythill and Ether. If I cross off Ythill and CTD because their claims make sense, that leaves me with Glork, Shanba, and Ether. Based on play, I'd pick Shanba (as possible GF) or Ether over Glork. The other folks - CDB, Gurgi, Chamber, Porochaz, and CES are probably the place to start since there are no investigation results to cloud the mind. I'd like to hear some more from them as well.

I said that ignoring claims and results, I would not put Glork as the most suspicious in that group. I went down that route because my assumption set doesn't really make a lot of sense in evaluating that group in the context of one of them being scum.

Wait, you're voting for Porochaz. I can see why CES might see it as an alternative to a Glork mislynch, but why aren't you looking at if from the Lynch Porochaz or No-lynch perspective? I'd prefer a Porochaz lynch, but I'd also prefer a no-lynch over lynching Glork right now.

I'm also not sure how Ythill came up with me as a partner with Porochaz and Glork.

Looking at the people who have indicated that Glork made a scum-slip, he's well within lynch range right now.

I will say that Glork's lack of effort today has whittled away most of my support for him.

Who's scum, MBL?

[Ether]

unvote; vote: MrBuddyLee

For the first bit, not the question. (I think CES would have killed Crash instead of Ythill.)

[Ether]

On second thoughts, I don't want to give my full answer yet. Sorry--feel free to call me on this later.

The Night 2 logic was totally flawed and useless; it was based on roleblocker DGB stuff and can be found back here. I'm just lampshading that this is the second daybreak in a row that I've done this.

Porochaz, why am I scum?

[Ether]

I'm aware, and don't particularly care. You're welcome to ignore it for now, and I'll swoop in if it's important.

* Glork = town because he sucks this game. pure meta.
* Shanba = town because of viewtopic.php?p=2676637#p2676637 pure meta.

You seem to be the master of meta.

Ether, you claimed to have meta galore on Glork.

Can you

please

stop doing this? I complained the first two times; you're just putting words into my mouth.

[Ether]

Why are you asking Shanba in particular?

[Ether]

That's...weird wording, but thanks, I guess.

[Ether]

I picked up that Glork could go either way when he's competent, but when he sucks, he's probably town? I was

wrong

, MBL, and the one time I read him correctly as scum, the game mechanics basically forced him not to bus. I think he probably did a more flexible form of that here--intentionally setting up innocents on his scumbuddies one by one and hoping to make it to LyLo that way, where Crash's counterclaim wouldn't have done him as much good--but you may have guessed that I'm not saying that from a totally objective point of view.

Shanba, I just refused to post my thoughts on that.

[Ether]

I have a hypothesis on that one.

[Ether]

I'm not sure about Huck and I'm not sure we have enough information to know who's going after him for good reasons and who's not.

It cracks me up that anyone would criticize me for asking questions in a game where people aren't saying all that much,

Heh.

Now make a post about who you would remotely consider lynching.

[Ether]

PS. CDB gets his poliwag when he deserves it.

[Ether]

I didn't. I thought you were both likely scum, especially you. (That was the first time my attention had really been drawn to MBL, I believe. Can't remember if anything had been bugging me strongly before then.) But Ythill had just made a post indicating that he thought Glork and MBL was scum together. As I said at the time, MBL was a compromise I was prepared to make.

[Ether]

Preview happens now.

[Ether]

You're gonna say what you're thinking now and what you expect before you've done all those reads you've promised.

[Ether]

Shanba, why are Gurgi and MBL town?

[Ether]

Of course I unvoted you after Glork claimed with an innocent on you. Crash's counterclaim was what made me start thinking about insane cops and shit. (And I absolutely think Glork would claim two of his buddies as innocents. It's pretty clear that he went out of his way to set up a cop claim beforehand; my best guess is that if he'd had his way, he'd have claimed today with all three of his buddies cleared.)

MBL's play just seems to me like a constant stream of asking questions to get out of drawing conclusions, and waiting until as late in the day as possible so it matters less when he absolutely has to. If he's town, I think we'll both need an amicable chat after the game about why we drive each other so crazy.

Her early game when she just replaced in was like super super townish - I think she's been coasting on that a little since, and I'd like to see her stepping it up again,

Meh. That's...not really how I felt about my Day 2 play. I know you said I got epic reactions, but to me those were just by-products of a dark time when Patrick was politely asking me every few days if I needed to be replaced. When you're flailing around helplessly in the water trying not to drown, ripples happen, you know?

[Ether]

CDB was the only one of those three I was getting any feeling of suspicion from you on. Every time I see you vote CDB, I think, "Yep. He's deflecting from HackerHuck and/or Porochaz."

Mostly I'm just rolling my eyes because Shanba asked you for your current thoughts on the game, and your response was 5/6ths me (concluding that you weren't going to lynch me today anyway--and it's not like I was a point of discussion before your post) and the remaining paragraph only mentioned a single person (Huck) in passing without coming to any conclusion.

Well not really, the whole cop-doc thing comes into play here as well. In that a one shot cop is a perfect way to fill the void where a cop causes problems. Also with a vig, a supersaint, a one shot cop, a full cop and a doc in this town its getting a little crowded, no? I see it as a perfectly valid counterclaim.

PS. This is, in and of itself, a valid reason to lynch Porochaz. Discuss.

[Ether]

Making sense is one of the few things I

don't

count as a town tell, except occasionally for a limited time only. But I'm just nitpicking here.

We've kind of established that I don't think the first of those; I don't think he sounded especially bitter there, either. But I do think that calling two-shot vig/doctor/one-shot cop/supersaint balanced in a game with four scum is the sort of thing a person would only say if it already knew Glork's alignment and was trying to come up with excuses to bus him from that vantage point.

What do you think about Porochaz and HackerHuck?

[Ether]

Porochaz is online and he was prodded about an hour ago.

(Chamber and Crash were prodded much earlier than that, and haven't picked their prods up as far as I know. Dunno where the fuck Chamber is.)

[Ether]

Leaving you to your own devices also actively makes you not post. Make a List.

The information is available to anyone who asks. I'm just the only one who bothers, and then

I

make it available to all. See how that works?

[Ether]

Huh?

[Ether]

A lurker (4) -- Cogito Ergo Sum, ChannelDelibird, Lord Gurgi, Shanba
Another lurker (2) -- CrashTextDummie, MrBuddyLee
Yep, it's another lurker (1) -- HackerHuck
MrBuddyLee (1) -- Ether

I'm just sayin'.

[Ether]

Sure does!

Well, I could say the push on the two lurkers and the person Ive found most townie in this game or the fact that you were completely and utterly wrong about Glork and went so far as not to just disagree with the opinion but to strongly defend him. That first post of starks keeps coming back to haunt me as well.

[Ether]

Porochaz, what do you think of HackerHuck, CDB, CES, Gurgi and chamber?

[Ether]

I'm kind of hoping to ask Crash when he's not busy if Huck is usually this dependent on votecount analysis.

Sorry, but no. I generally don't put that much value in analyses; I'm just letting you do this reading stuff in the hopes that you'll have to get back into the game once you can't keep grumbling about how you're not caught up and you need to reread.

[Ether]

CDB's conclusions about CES, Zorblag and chamber just seem tacked on after the analyses. I don't really know what's leading him to his conclusions.

I'm not seeing the no lynch thing.

[Ether]

Also, while I'm all for a Hackerlynch etc etc, I'm not sure why Gurgi is even bothering to run his mouth on him here.

[Ether]

You could make a case on anyone in the format you were using; I don't really know if I'm getting your train of thought out of them. Summarize the differences; explain why Zorblag is town.

[Ether]

I will get around to picking out a best scum candidate today, but part of that process is talking about everyone else AND trying to build town consensus. You know that feeling you get when someone you kind of think might be town says something that makes a ton of sense and suddenly the process of elimination becomes easier? Yeah, we need more of that.

This has been haunting me for a while. Do you even

use

process of elimination? 'Cause I sure as hell haven't seen it from you here.

[Ether]

I wouldn't remotely consider lynching Ether today, but if a bad flip comes, she should be seriously looked into. I would consider Huck = town to be a bad flip for Ether, and to a lesser extent CDB=scum or CES=scum. I don't think a chamberflip would say much about her, nor CTD or Gurgi, and a Shanbaflip probably isn't happening to give us a read on her Shanbacall.

Not as such--but posts like the above really imply that writing people off just isn't his kind of mindset. (I also think that if he were actively trying to stop being paranoid toward me, he'd have pressed me on my selfmeta by now. Like, at all. In general, it seriously bugs me the way he handled that question.)

[Ether]

This argument is stupid. Gurgi should find something less stupid to do with his time.

[Ether]

I'll vote him eventually. Was that in any doubt?

What do you think of MBL?

[Ether]

This argument is stupid. Gurgi should find something less stupid to do with his time.

[Ether]

Not really, excluding the obvious. Why?

[Ether]

That wasn't a rhetorical question, by the way.

MBeeeeeeell.

[Ether]

You may remember the part where my town reads all got cleared and/or died and/or were scum.

(My thing on CES is a bit embarrassing: it was based on worst case scenario logic for scum, assuming that both Ythill and Crash were lying about being limited-shot. I'm still sort of keeping it in mind because I think it's something he'd be more likely to consider at

all

if he's scum, and in general I'm remembering him nitpicking a lot of people's town reads on him, which seems like something scum would be less likely to do. Dunno. I'm kind of focused on other people even on top of that.)

Then Shanba lamented that I wasn't asking as many questions as I was early on, and it was kind of a valid point, and I'm consciously trying to be better about it.

It also makes it easier to not be apathetic. Why are you wasting your time criticizing HackerHuck--the dude with four votes on him, who you only started criticizing after he had four votes on him--and some shitty no lynch tangent that Glork slipped up on?

Keep talking about MBL.

Crash, I'm hoping to catch you online. Could you post the next time you have reason to think I'm checking 'Scum?

[Ether]

Do you really think Glork was trying to bus

...

Come on, you've

got

to have something better than that. Link me to your last scum game and your last two town games? Let's try to be

rational

about this, MBL.

With that note out of the way--while I have read the full game, I barely remember any of it. (For example, I only remember the fact that Glork was attacking you based on Ythill's conspiracy theory from Day 3, right before Glork claimed cop. For what it's worth, I don't think said theory is likely at all.) I probably should go back over the early parts of the game for other reasons: not necessarily for your sake.

I think you brought up a fair point on the CDBwagon the last time you drew it to my attention, and it's still perfectly fair. I dunno. There are active reasons why I dislike Huck and Porochaz, while CDB is just absent. He and Porochaz are both kind of hard to come to updated conclusions on, since they're never in the thread.

When I was trying to lynch Porochaz yesterday, I believed Huck had an innocent result from a confirmed sane cop. That was of course taken away after the lynch, but it took me bit of nighttime to remember Huck's voting patterns. (That's another thing I have totally failed to reread. In this post, I have now made three references to reading long stretches of mafia game that I wasn't around for. It's probably not something you want to hold your breath on.)

So what is the deal with you and town reads? What do you think of Gurgi?

[Ether]

As for your self-meta, Ether, which you've brought up my nonresponse to like 12 times:

[...]

You're basically saying you don't post much as scum? That's a pretty easy one to turn around if you put your mind to it, but I take your point. You don't have "your nails in" this game, so your reads are scattered. I assume your reads are more confident as scum before you "get a combo going"? I'll bite--please link me to a game of yours as scum and as town.

...

Let's step back for a second and review what I've

actually said

on that topic:

Unlike chamber, MBL, you

did

explicitly ask me to meta myself. And I explicitly told you what an easy read I was. Do you ever even follow up on your questions, MBL? When Shanba--you know, that guy who Crash cleared--gives you the answer you're holding out for, will you care?

Hi, MBL. Who's scum? What have you concluded from all the selfmetas you've gotten from people (especially mine, obv)?

Why are you pretending to suspect me when I'm the investigated innocent of the cop you are confident is town?

PS. Same question to you over Shanba and his selfmeta.

[Context note: MBL had been using Shanba's lack of a response so far to avoid commenting on selfmeta stuff.]

MBL's play just seems to me like a constant stream of asking questions to get out of drawing conclusions, and waiting until as late in the day as possible so it matters less when he absolutely has to.

(I also think that if he were actively trying to stop being paranoid toward me, he'd have pressed me on my selfmeta by now. Like, at all. In general, it seriously bugs me the way he handled that question.)

Here's a secret, MBL. I'm voting you. You're free to think what you want about my alignment (as if you're actually thinking), but if I gave a shit, I'd stop beating around the bush and just reiterate why I'm town. I don't care that you're asking me now; I want to know why you didn't do it weeks ago.

[Ether]

Could you articulate why?

You keep calling my reads off the rail, but the only one you seem to actually dispute at all is your own. You've never stated

why

, exactly, you think it's unreasonable to draw the conclusions I did. I really am doing my best to be fair and cooperative and give you a lot of chances and make it

absolutely blazing obvious

what I expect.

Your roleplaying was lovely, but the Spies games are a tough series to read for information. (Incidentally, I know for a fact that Spies 6 wasn't the last game you lost as town. I'm assuming you omitted later games because you didn't get a lot of screen time in Spies 7 or CT3, but let's try to tell the complete truth in the future to prevent any misunderstandings, shall we? Unless you and PJ had a QuickTopic or something, in which case you should totally link me.) I would appreciate some easier examples.

[Ether]

Heh.

[Ether]

I should probably note that Porochaz was much more humble toward me the last time he was scum, and his Caffhate is a point in his favor. I can be a scary lady.

I should also note that if he's town, he's a moron.

[Ether]

Which means I would seriously like Zorblag to get the fuck back to us.

And Gurgi to detail The Saga of What He Thinks of MBL.

[Ether]

Heh. To Porochaz I'd be.

I think your wagon has stalled because CDB, Porochaz, Zorblag and Crash all vanished from the face of the earth and I want to talk to them while you're still alive and try to figure out what to do tomorrow.

[Ether]

No, he tends to appear on the online list when people are talking about him and then slink away. Happens all the time. Constantly. He's probably reading this without logging in as we speak.

[Ether]

Not really. I do want to watch you and Gurgi duke it out for a while.

[Ether]

I probably will. I still think Huck's scum, and his recent behavior only makes me feel better about this. He's tuned out since Monday, and after coming back he's just going on about wagon stalling. I think if he were town, the knowledge that his top two were both people who were calmly letting his wagon stall might be remotely interesting to him.

I do want to rant/bounce my ideas and MBL thoughts and shit off of you tomorrow, though, and I'm all for talking about Huck too. Right now I've got to find a class in five minutes, and then hopefully go home and faint.

[Ether]

See...if you actually had a problem with my answer--if you actually gave a shit about scumhunting--maybe you should have called me out on your own initiative before dropping it and leaving me to draw my own conclusions. The thing that's stalling your wagon is

me:

my impatience with Zorblag and CDB, my love of CrashTextDummie, my silly inner conflicts over MBL. That was true before Zorblag posted, and it's even truer now that you're at -1. You ask me what I'm talking about, but I'm not even clear what issue you're taking with what I said.

[Ether]

Ether you'll hammer at deadline right?

I'm hoping to hammer

today.

(I haven't decided if that's by Eastern or Pacific standards yet, though.)

believe that Porochaz isn't just inactive, and if he's really avoiding my wagon for some reason,

If you'll look closly at the way you phrased your question, I think it speaks for itself.

[Ether]

Yup.

MBL, could you elaborate on your read of chamber?

[Ether]

unvote; vote: HackerHuck

I think if Porochaz and Huck were scum together, then Porochaz would have bussed him by now, especially contrasting his play on the Glorkwagon with his play here. Good night.

[Ether]

vote: no lynch

[Ether]

Do it now.

[Ether]

I'd like us to finish our massclaim now.

And then crack down on some stuff I've needed to do for ages, and take two weeks again.

[Ether]

I believe that would be you, Gurgi and MBL.

[Ether]

Whatever. Claim.

[Ether]

Hi. Can we not vote yet?

[Ether]

Yeah.

[Ether]

The one that you did your best to fuck up by having Shanba out himself as vanilla first?

Really I just want CES to give some results at this point. Then I'll deal with you whether you've made up a claim or not.

[Ether]

Hmm.

Why's MBL town?

[Ether]

Any subtleties you may have been trying to get across by stuttering were lost on me. Just so we're clear on that.

[Ether]

Guess.

[Ether]

Uh...if that was an attempt to be helpful, thanks? That's not Shanba.

[Ether]

I don't know what you just said.

[Ether]

You were correct about CES having claimed. You just...gave that correction after CES had already done so.

Shanba was the obvious kill last night. If he was a power role, he absolutely needed to claim first. But the converse of that meant him posting

without

a claim pretty much meant softclaiming vanilla. (That made the balance between giving him ample time to claim and not looking like I was giving him ample time to claim kind of awkward. I dunno about Gurgi/Porochaz/CES's votes, but I waited until I knew Shanba had been on AIM for a bit before placing my vote.)

[Ether]

CES.

Please

tell me why MBL is remotely townish. What would you expect him to do differently as scum?

[Ether]

MBL, what do you think of those posts?

[Ether]

"Patient," MBL? Seriously? What are you bragging that you've restrained yourself on? Am I supposed to be grateful that you haven't displayed any emotions that might help me read you?

You could be scum. You could just be an idiot who's too stubborn to answer perfectly easy questions (see the exchange from 2524 to 2540. Patience is

not

the word) on some petty principle. (I know that's shaded my play a bit.) You've made sure it's impossible to get anything useful out of you, and take offense when I try to get something out of CES instead.

Let's try another person.

[Ether]

That said Ether is doing a

great

job of making MBL look really scummy.

So what's your reasoning for MBL being scum. Extra points if you use your own analysis!

CTD: I still don't grasp how you can think MBL is scum. Like, even remotely so.

And Gurgi to detail The Saga of What He Thinks of MBL.

Huck, you, and MBL is inching his way down there.

Hi, Gurgi. What the hell are you doing? (I'm also surprised that I'm the one calling you out on this instead of MBL, heh.)

CDB picked up a prod a few hours ago. (Some other people were prodded but haven't picked it up.) I am aware that differentiating Porochaz, chamber and CDB is something that really needs to happen.

[Ether]

A quick no-lynch would leave Shanba's role in the air. I believed that there was a power role hidden in the town that wasn't Shanba, and wanted to maximize the odds that scum wouldn't target it, as well as give it another chance to get a result.

In other words, exactly what I said a page ago (2667). There's a pattern here.

[Ether]

If you're expressing confusion over what to look for, I strongly doubt that you were actually trying to read me.

You've made sure it's impossible to get anything useful out of you.

Also, this is horseshit. You're a propagandist.

Okay. What's your impression of the exchange on page 102, then?

[Ether]

If Incognito is reading this, there's something I'd like him to say to my face.

For the rest of you, I'm not dead. I'm not really recovered, either, but let's see.

[Ether]

That said Ether is doing a

great

job of making MBL look really scummy.

So what's your reasoning for MBL being scum. Extra points if you use your own analysis!

CTD: I still don't grasp how you can think MBL is scum. Like, even remotely so.

And Gurgi to detail The Saga of What He Thinks of MBL.

Huck, you, and MBL is inching his way down there.

Hi, Gurgi. What the hell are you doing?

Re: MBL. So Ether accuses me of the same thing that MBL does. Except MBL says it's because Ether is scum and Ether says it's something MBL should have called me out on.

Hey, Gurgi. Have you come up with a real answer since my absense?

I think Zorblag's point on CDB's Chazvote is spot on; CDB is probably scum. I'm still in a position where I...kind of think Porochaz is town and that he might possibly have done something (and at the same time avoided suspecting me on a basis that is not only stupid but

factually wrong

) as scum.

I should probably pinpoint why I think stuff. MBL harassing me about it makes me want to do it less, which is kind of funny, now, isn't it.

[Ether]

Half a week. (Heh...)

[Ether]

What are you accusing me of having missed?

I'm not voting CDB, but I endorse the lynch happening. Just feel like there's so much stuff that I've totally failed to do and still need to get around to, you know? (Irritated that I don't get to have a proper conversation with Porochaz before deadline, but whatever, that's my fault.)

[Ether]

Hey, Porochaz. Let's talk here now.

[Ether]

What do you think about CDB?

What do you think about Gurgi?

You do realize that this notion that I'm scum is absolute bullshit, right?

[Ether]

Huh?

[Ether]

You said CES hadn't claimed. I thought I might have recalled a claim and checked, and actually, he's claimed.

What made you so confident that Gurgi was roled?

If you'll look carefully, MBL, you answered your own first question. Excellent work.

Let me answer your other question with one of my own. (Though really, to be fair, it's multiple questions in one. I think you've "chosen not to answer" a lot more of my questions than I have yours, and given a hell of a lot fewer reasons as to

why

.)

You've made sure it's impossible to get anything useful out of you.

Also, this is horseshit. You're a propagandist.

Okay. What's your impression of the exchange on page 102, then?

[Ether]

I think your nonreaction is all the answer I need.

[Ether]

See? He's scum.

[Ether]

I suppose I'll have no choice soon. No one's gonna get a clue without my help.

[Ether]

I'm sorry for stressing anyone out: I was genuinely spiraled until about 20 minutes ago, and then MBL was on and the deadline was imminent and I got curious.

vote: ChannelDelibird

[Ether]

Never, or possibly a few seconds after the deadline.

I still don't think Porochaz is scum. I still think MBL (and Gurgi) are. But don't expect me to do anything major about this before Friday.

[Ether]

You know.

I was wrong about Glork. I was wrong about HackerHuck (though for what it's worth I did try to get a dialog with Crash about it). And I don't really expect credit for CDB, since I only came over to his lynch yesterday. But I was

not

wrong about everything: I also called Shanba and Ythill's alignments while they were still in the air. Those just stopped being controversial for other reasons after the fact.

Let's just set the record straight on that.

Also, I think this is evidence that Tripod is not physically capable of drawing a town role. I had a good laugh about that one overnight.

[Ether]

Uh, I didn't really have one.

I was genuinely spiraled until about 20 minutes ago, and then MBL was on and the deadline was imminent and I got curious.

is pretty much the whole story.

[Ether]

MBL/me wasn't physically possible anyway, on top of all the common sense issues. If I were scum and knew he wouldn't hammer CDB at 49 seconds to deadline, I wouldn't have done it either.

But seriously you should unvote.

[Ether]

That's true! It didn't even occur to me that that applied to CES too.

I still think you two are scum. I think Gurgi just isn't here to quicklynch.

[Ether]

Brunch, then unsynching. (This is less of a "post in 24 hours" and more of a "post in 2.")

There will probably be some stream of consciousness over past thoughts on people, and then I may have to actually reread shit. I will try to keep you posted.

[Ether]

That ran longer than I was expecting.

[Ether]

Porochaz's ridiculously idiotic grudge against me just isn't really what I'd expect from him as scum; I think Chazscum is more passive than that. His behavior toward me here feels exactly like what he did to YvonneSeer in PYP2, a game which none of you were in and it was like four years ago. So that's haunting me. Apparently he's V/LA until Friday.

I wrote CES off temporarily for some stuff, mostly around him nitpicking people's reasons for him to be town, but that's admittedly pretty weak and I should probably retire it. Honestly I have no idea what to expect from him and I've been trying to focus more on other people and process of elimination and shit.

I think MBL's failure to hammer is absolutely 100% unforgiveable and there is pretty much no way that he is not scum. I can elaborate, but since I'm in a stream of consciousness mode, I'm instead going to say that it disturbs the hell out of me that CES let this slide.

Since I'm in a stream of consciousness mode, I'm also going to say that MBL/CDB/CES + Glork is a hilarious scumteam. Ahahahahaha.

[Ether]

I should probably find some excuse to clear Gurgi. Just to be on the safe side.

[Ether]

As usual, I am not really sure if Gurgi's last post is in English but that's okay!

What's really key is that MBL's excuse for not hammering was in the name of generic "information." (And also because he was "partially in doubt." Seriously? It didn't even matter anymore; there was no way any lynch except CDB's was going to happen at that point. Though he did try to tell me otherwise at 10 minutes to deadline.) If MBL had hammered five minutes early, it (probably) wouldn't have made Patrick lock the thread sooner. He'd have gotten the same information either way.

And Ether's no longer browsing the forum.

Zorblag corrected him (at three minutes to deadline), but what was he supposed to conclude as town at the time? Dude wanted us to fail; that's all there is to it.

[Ether]

I'm inclined to vote Porochaz.

[Ether]

I'm really more waiting on your acknowledgment of my last post than Porochaz's.

[Ether]

vote: Porochaz

[Ether]

Yay.

[Ether]

I'm also, uh, visible on the online list, posting in the thread. So yeah.

Let's say 7 or 8. But I don't recommend you try to paint my vote as an extension of that.

[Ether]

You do that.

[Ether]

I wasn't expecting that.

Not the MBL flip. I was expecting CES to die instead so I could have an awesome U-turn on MBL and vote Gurgi. Rereading Day 3 in light of Porochaz, CDB and Glork all being scum makes him look really, really bad.

I'll probably do that last bit anyway.

[Ether]

Nope.

[Ether]

Almost certainly.

[Ether]

[Ether]

I'm conflicted. On one hand, I feel like I should at least let him post, or reread the part of the game where he was supposedly being competent or something nice. And on the other hand, it would be really funny if I didn't.

[Ether]

Well, there's Patrick. That brings the instant gratification argument back on the table.

[Ether]

Yeah...I can't conceivably see myself not voting Gurgi after his Day 3 stuff.

Plus I kind of owe you after the last two days. I feel like if you are scum, I'm running on time we borrowed from you anyway.

vote: Lord Gurgi

[Ether]

Crash, you were pretty badass when you were alive. Saw your Lists when I was rereading Day 3.

[Ether]

I was going to quote that. :P

I don't think Gurgi continuing his early playstyle could have saved him. His spazzing out after Glork was counterclaimed and CDB and Porochaz were being wagonned was just that bad. After they all flipped, he was always going to be next if anyone bothered to doublecheck it.

Sorry you had to put up with my shit on the earlier days, MBL.

[Ether]

Im not 100% convinced Ether isn't a power role.

Scum never know with me. ^_^

[Ether]

Wow. Why was I being considered for the nightkill over Shanba? You scumbags are just weird.

[Ether]

MBL and Ythill and HackerHuck should get on AIM. I know you all have accounts.

[Ether]

Troll should also get on AIM.

[Ether]

Dear townies on Earth,

Lynch Glork.

The Angels.

I then started having prophetic dreams about Glork's alignment. (Though they were about him speedlynching Porochaz, so yeah...)

[Ether]

We are having another fogeys chat today. Therefore you should still be on AIM.

[Ether]

inHim why are you not on AIM this is an outrage.