Mini 1401 - Game over!

[Malakittens]

Mmk. Post incoming later. I'm at work at the moment, but I'll be off in less than 3 hours to make a proper post.

I was reading along so won't take me that long to catch up.

[Malakittens]

First thing that rings a bell is Kthxbye's post 22.

People have mentioned this, but it seemed a bit over eager. As if you are trying way too hard to appear town.

So slight town points to Meph for calling it out.

Sense a bit over-defensive in the reply from Kthx to Gorg in this post.

RVS was over back in Page 1 yet we have votes going onto Absta without "proper" explanations. Post 33 and Post 34.

Don't like this post by Absta.

Reasons:

1) He has three current votes, but doesn't even care that he does. Meaning he's super calm, but doesn't feel the need to address them like they aren't worth it.
2) He asks Slandaar a non important question, imo. (Filler post)
3) He dodges most of the content that happened prior.

I feel a bit of Absta-scum, honestly.

I find it odd that Kthx calls out SiN for lack of substance in his posts, but doesn't call out Absta for similar reasons.

FoS Kthx

Absta's post 54. Calls Kthx town because of vote hopping and that is considered a town tell.

@Absta: I noticed that the last few games you played as town you normally vote hop, but this game you aren't vote hopping is there a reason for that?

Don't like Slandaar's post-vote hop onto the Conman's wagon in Post 75. I didn't like Fitz for the same reason either, but I doubt both scum would be on a wagon this early.

I like this post by Meph.

I don't like the self-vote at all. Don't do it, regardless of alignment, please.

I like this post by Huntress.

She's scum-hunting and asking good questions.

Don't like this post by Kthx. It's way to early to line up lynches without a flip on connections. I can understand doing it once we have a flip, but before?

Why do you care if a slip-up makes you look townish? I just got a paranoid vibe from Gorgon.

As for Saint's post here.

Any reason for just selectively commenting on those posts, but not other posts?
I do though like the questions you asked.

@Kthx:

I don't really like to quick lynch before I have time to ask questions and wait for answers so I can based reads on people. I think the longer Day 1 is the easier in the long run it will be to catch scum.
Why are you so eager to cut it short?

Sorry for your loss Conman.

----

So far I'm not liking Slandaar and I'm not liking Absta.

@Slandaar: Has your play recently changed so drastically from our last game? If not, why are you playing/acting so much differently? You aren't acting the way you did during Cort and you were town then.

Scum Reads:

(highest to lowest)

Absta - Reasons stated above. Completly calm when voted on, but doesn't question any of the votes on him. Gives me the illusion that he doesn't feel threatned by them. Filler posts and lack of substance. Different from town-meta.

Slandaar - Mostly gut, but I don't like the lack of substance also. Not to mention votes are being unexplained. Along with vote hops onto wagons. Different from town-meta game that I played with him.

Watch List:

Conman - Didn't like the self-vote, getting a new "town" vibe rather than scum, tbh.

Kthx- Pending evaluation regarding questioning.
Other reasons for being put on the watch list is the over-eagerness in 22. Calls out people for one thing, but doesn't call out others for the same exact thing.

Town Reads:

Meph- Reasons stated above.

Leaning Town List

Saint- Liked the one post that I saw from him. Only problem that I did have was that the comments/questions felt selective.

NS - Nothing he's done has struck me as incredibaly scummy. Willing to add him as leaning town.

Huntress - So far I have liked her posts. I didn't see her taking something out of context regarding Kthx.

---

As for Fitz, I'm being a bit cautious around him. I'd like a bit more posts before I categorize him. I was completely fooled by him recently in another game.

I always have trouble reading Hydra's (unless part of the Hydra is OM). So going to wait a bit before giving SiN a read.

I want to see more posts from Gorgon and Qwints before they go onto a list.

---

Vote: Absta

[Malakittens]

@Kthx: Explain to me how a lurker lynch would give us information?

(No, I'm not as stupid as you think. I want to know what information that you would get from it. I know information that could possibly be gained from it, but all I see it as an "easy" lynch.)

---

@Slandaar:

I remember that game with RD, but I sure as don't see where RD saying that the play has changed. I remember him giving you another chance.

There's also another theory that you haven't even decided to think about regarding Huntress.

Won't be able to answer that question personally from him since I'm Ace's replacement.

Why don't you think Kthx is scum?

Also, if you read my post you would have realized I asked Kthx a set of questions which he answered. I'm trying to wrap my head around why either 1. You didn't read most of my post or 2. You didn't realize what Kthx answered was coming from me in the first place.

[Malakittens]

@Mala

1) He has three current votes, but doesn't even care that he does. Meaning he's super calm, but doesn't feel the need to address them like they aren't worth it.

How is this even scummy?

They were shit (and obviously temporary) reasons.

2) He asks Slandaar a non important question, imo. (Filler post)

I can't defend this because I don't fully remember why I asked it.

Why would scum-absta post that (what's the scum motivation for making a filer post)?

3) He dodges most of the content that happened prior.

It was page two and I addressed the Kthx suspicion on page 3.

@Absta: I noticed that the last few games you played as town you normally vote hop, but this game you aren't vote hopping is there a reason for that?

It's a terri-bad way of playing. I believed I stopped doing it after our previous game together.

I don't like the self-vote at all. Don't do it, regardless of alignment, please.

It's a decent move by caught scum.
To the point, why wouldn't you want scum-conman to support his own lynch?

Absta - Reasons stated above. Completly calm when voted on, but doesn't question any of the votes on him. Gives me the illusion that he doesn't feel threatned by them.

This is vote worthy.
VOTE: Mala

1) I'd think that town would question it or even raise an eyebrow towards it even if they were temporary or "shit" reasons. Instead you did nothing as I said gave off the illusion that you can care less about them.

2) If you don't remember it then the question must have not been important in the first place then.
What is the town-motivation for making a filer post?

3) Yet, you didn't do it when you posted is the issue. You waited until Page 3 then followed up saying he's town because he doesn't care what people think of him for vote hopping, but just give a vague reason that you like his activity. There could have been other things that you could have said, but chose to ignore.

4) It was a bad way of playing, I'll agree. Main reason I thought you were scummy during that game, but it turns out I was wrong.

5) It's also a move down by cornered town. Especially town that are inexperienced.
Why are you so convinced he's scum. Why isn't there a possibility in your mind that he might actually be town?

6) How is it vote worthy?

Mala I think I hate you. I swear you call me scum every game. Fuck sake.

That's a lie. I don't think you are scum every game. If you want to bring up FoF then you may, but you gradually became more scum looking in that game, but I didn't even make a case for a scum-Absta.

Actually, nvm this. I guess your suspicions were justified due to your "vote hopping is scummy" mindset.

No hard feelings.

My suspicions are justified on other grounds. Plus, I noticed that you weren't vote hopping around this game. I'm not saying you are scum for vote hopping. I think you are scum for other things, but as I said I noticed that you weren't doing it as much. A recent game of mine I stopped thinking that vote hopping is a scummy thing.

[Malakittens]

That theory is that huntress is town.

I'm pretty sure she's town just because I have a reaction test to catch her when she's scum and someone asked the same question earlier in another page and she dodged the question, but when she's actually town she kinda panicks. It hasn't failed me yet with her so.

Yeah I was so tired when I got home. >.>

[Malakittens]

Fuck me when she's scum she panicks. *

I'm not yet awake.

[Malakittens]

She sees the question, but chooses to ignore it. It's something she'll do as town.
Whereas she's scum she'll answer it, but it's kinda like all panicky because she hates to be looked at.

[Malakittens]

She sees the question, but chooses to ignore it. It's something she'll do as town.
Whereas she's scum she'll answer it, but it's kinda like all panicky because she hates to be looked at.

[Malakittens]

That's what I get for being in the basement of my school.

Mod can you delete the dicpluate post?

[Malakittens]

Sorry for the loss again.

But can you start on commenting on the content that has recently been provided in the thread?

[Malakittens]

There has been other things than just me and Absta though which you haven't commented on.

[Malakittens]

@Mala

Instead you did nothing as I said gave off the illusion that you can care less about them.

Why would scum care less than town?

What is the town-motivation for making a filer post?

You've just established that your second accusation is null.

There could have been other things that you could have said, but chose to ignore.

Like what?

Why are you so convinced he's scum. Why isn't there a possibility in your mind that he might actually be town?

What? He's leaning scum.
Also, answer the question. You said "regardless of alignment". Why wouldn't you want scum-conman to support his own lynch?

6) How is it vote worthy?

It's a terrible reason for calling me scum, probably the worst i've ever seen. Scum make fake reasons for calling town "scum". That's what I think you're doing.
How does me not being threatened by votes make me scum?

A recent game of mine I stopped thinking that vote hopping is a scummy thing.

What do you think of it now? [/quote]

---

1. Town should be more paranoid of votes honestly. Especially unexplained and not well reasoned votes. Scum don't really have to be worried about votes on them unless it's shown that more votes are going to put them in danger.

2. Unless scum are using filler posts to make them look like they are hunting. Town shouldn't be making filler posts at all. Which is why filler posts are more likely to come from scum rather than town.

3. What you addressed in your page 3 post could have been posted on during Page 2. You could have talked about NS's post #31 and his vote on Fitz or the two votes against you. Gorgon was making good posts which you didn't post thoughts regarding.
That's only a few things that could have been addressed rather than the post that had your unvote, but along with asking Slandaar an non-important question. (We have established that it was non-important because you don't remember why you asked it in the first place)

4. He's leaning scum to you, but you are willing to hammer him and you want a claim.
There's many reasons why players wouldn't want scum to support their own lynch. It makes it harder to actually find the other remaining scum. I'd be all for scum to support their own lynch when they are the last one alive, but not during Day 1 or even other Days without scum flips. It makes it so much easier to find connections with scum flips when they don't support their own lynch as opposed to days when they support it.

5. Yet I think you are wrong because if others were to ISO you they would also find that you haven't really been hunting for scum.

6. Why do I have to answer a question in which you already have the answer. The answer is within the quote that you are wanting me to answer.

----

@D3x:

There was some things that my predecessor did that I didn't approve of, but it didn't make him scummy. The vote for the no lynch was the worse thing that I didn't like. Mainly because I have never seen a no lynch happen on Day 1 on this site.

He was also very wishy-washy when it came to the topic of Kthx, but also Conman.

I thought of his vote and then unvote on Conman was something that scum wouldn't have done.

Post 239 was showing that he was trying to hunt, but he seemed lost on where to go which then triggered his No Lynch vote.

Taking all his posts into order he was leaning town for me rather than scum. Solid town? No, but I can't say that his play was Solid scum.

---

@Gorgon:

After reading my current posts do you still think I'm scummy? If you don't think I'm scummy why is your vote still on me?

Same question would apply to Saint, but he's V/LA, but he needs to answer this once he returns.

[Malakittens]

@Conman:

Is there any reason why you left players names off your reads list?

Where does SiN and Saint fall into that list?

If you could possibly explain your scum reads that would be helpful.

[Malakittens]

Wanted to press preview rather than submit. Almost 1 am and it's getting late and I'll be heading to bed after this.

@Con:

What is the reason that Slandaar changed from a scum read in this post to a town read in this post?

Also what was the reason for the change in Kthx leaning to town rather than scum?

@NS:

Are you actually going to even attempt to hunt anywhere or even post thoughts on other players than Conman?

What convinced you out of SiN's post that makes you think Fitz is scum?

[Malakittens]

@Conman:

Still didn't answer all of the questions.
Is there a reason why you left SiN and Saint out of your list?
What changed regarding Kthx?

[Malakittens]

Yet you still dodged my other set of questions, Con.

[Malakittens]

@Qwints:

Now knowing that Conman left two people out of his original read list and has now given a read on them both.. Do you still think the three people you mentioned are a likely team? If so, why?

@Conman:

I can understand leaving out Saint, but SiN has been shouting that you were town rather than scum. He is someone who I wouldn't have forgotten to add into a list.

So, I'm not really liking Kthx's successive tunneling at this point.

[Malakittens]

@Con: the me either is to which part? Kthx or the read list?

[Malakittens]

@D3x:

If someone is defending me and basically throwing multiple posts out saying the same message, it's something I personally wouldn't forget. Which makes me wonder why in the first place that he forgot about SiN.

Been two recent games where players have done similar things as SiN has here and they turned out to be scum.

This makes me want to look at SiN more closely tbh.

[Malakittens]

Did both parties flip scum? No.
The person who was being defended was town.
The person who was constantly trying to defend the defender was scum.

ISO Om.

Since I'm off my phone I can't find the second game offhand.

---

@Con:

Just letting you know you are now giving me a bad vibe. First off you are not explaining any of your reads. You are starting to agree with everyone.

[Malakittens]

I do have a hard time reading hydras in general which is why I don't yet have a well established read on him. I'm basically watching SiN because of his defense of Con.

I'm wondering why Con left out SiN from a post list. If someone went to give reads and left two people out.. You wouldn't want to question it and get answers as to why? The SK answer satisifed me, but the SiN did not.

I'm not building a soft case against anyone. I have questions and I'd like answers. Why do you have a problem with that?

It's not only Con that I'm questioning. I do want answers from Q also now that new facts came out of Con's posts.

I'm honestly surprised that no one else caught that he left two players out of a read, but he labeled two players who have been posting as "undecided".

[Malakittens]

I like to learn from mistakes. If someone is constantly going to defend someone I wouldn't forget about them and I surely wouldn't have not forgot to list them on a list. Con forgetting SiN doesn't strike odd to you?

Yet you seem over worried that it might indict a certain player.

I get reads both ways honestly.

[Malakittens]

Yet you didn't answer the question that I directed at you Qwints.

[Malakittens]

Interesting. How can Huntress be scum regardless of the flip? That's just so ....

What about Nacho defense of Con? Why is Navho left out?

Why apply one, but not another?

[Malakittens]

The point of ^ that was what?

[Malakittens]

Going to have a post later tonight. Mind has been more focused on school. Last day of that so this will change in the upcoming days.

[Malakittens]

Q, you know this based on that post? I'm not sure how you are coming to that conclusion. Was an out of the blue this is a guess than replying to you. I also noticed that SK/SiN were left out of the list and yet Slandaar still picked them.

I'm also surprised that you didn't call him out for that, but when I asked you directly about Con you stated that I don't think he would forget his teammates. Can't link since I'm on my phone, but referring to post 366.

What I found Slandaar scummy for the most is calling Huntress scum and then not really explaining it. Took a few pages for him to actually explain it and he stated she took something out of context. Wasn't too happy with the buddying either that he was doing with Absta.

vote: qwints

[Malakittens]

Sorry. I like to vote my highest scum read rather than vote someone I don't think is scum (Con) or vote someone who is weaker scum read than my higher one (Slandaar).

Really, I'm actually voting for you because of your apparent mindset. Never called out Slandaar or even directed an eye at Slandaar's post for possible scum-Con for leaving out two names yet you are looking at an Absta/Mala/Con team because he wouldn't take a stance on either of us. I don't see a scum-Con putting his teammates as the same thing. I don't see how your playing is in a town mindset either.

[Malakittens]

I'm playing in a town mindset because I'm pushing for a good lynch (Con) over a bad lynch (Slandaar) rather than sitting back and avoiding taking a stand. Staying active while avoiding talking about major wagons is a classic scum tactic. If you really thought Slandaar was scum while Con wasn't, your play would be entirely different that it is right here - I don't see any evidence of you actually trying to prevent a Con lynch. Why are you just now saying you don't think Con is scum?

Actually, I think if you look at any of my posts you can see that I HAD a scum read from Slandaar from the start. Was it weak? Yes. What was it based on? Meta difference from the recent game we were in.

Lately, Conman, has been bothering me, but I'm still puzzled on his possible alignment which is why my hesitance. I will up front state things that he has been doing has been bothering me. Agreeing with people, but also leaving people out of his initial reads. I also do not like how the fact he hasn't explained his reads, but when he's tried he's been vague.

Actually, that's funny you are stating that I been staying active while avoiding talking about major wagons?

I'm actually branching out to look at behaviors of other players rather than focus on the main two players.
Why am I doing this? I'm hunting.

You were vague when you commented on the D3x/Slandaar argument and only explained it after questioned which to me was still vague.

Actually, I'm still trying to determine a read on Slandaar that is entirely separate from a meta-read.

Reason why I'm not preventing a Con lynch is because I'm not yet sure he's town. Even if I did think he was town there is only so far you can go to defend someone that you aren't sure of their alignment.

He's actually making cases and scumhunting whereas conman is just voting opportunistically. Conman hasn't seen a wagon he doesn't like (including his own).

Now you state that Slandaar was making cases:

I don't see a case that he made on Conman when he voted Conman. (Seems as if he just followed the cases at the present time)
Labels Huntress as scum, but doesn't vote her. Case here.
I mean this was SUCH a good case on D3x here. (p.s. I'm not being serious at all with saying it was such a good case.)

[Malakittens]

Seriously, Conman, what are your updated reads.

Don't give me wish-washy shit. Give me explanations if they are changed.

[Malakittens]

There's no way in hell you reads are staying this constant with new information coming out.

Vote: Conman

That

was

the last straw to my patience.

[Malakittens]

Probably not. Majority of your scum reads are those voting for you.

Meph/Saint are exceptions.
Kthx also you stated is leaning town.

Just because Slandaar changed to scum on your read list means you are being oppurnist. Not to mention you are asking others for reads, but not really mentioning your own. You have an appeasement attitude.

[Malakittens]

Alright, post to come later tonight.

[Malakittens]

Okies posted and caught up in a few of my other games. Time to move onto this game.

Can't say I'm not surprised at all regarding Huntress' flip as town, but shocked as hell to find out she was a Mason.
I personally rather not speculate regarding what type of 'role' killed her.

As for Fitz:
I can see him being killed because he was leading the wagon when Conman flipped even though he wasn't the original person to have lead it.

---

I been looking a lot at the VC analysis regarding Con's flip.

With it I'm ruling out that Kthxbye is scum because he's the original person who lead the wagon on Conman.

I also notice that the defense of Conman by Meph/D3x slot looks bad, but also the defense of Conman by SiN.

Meph's defense of Conman is in this post.
D3x's defense of Conman are in these posts: States Conman is a Policy Lynch (Located here.) Then switches to a Policy Lynch to a VI flip. (Located here) Also here.
SiN's defense of Conman. It's written all over the ISO. If you want me to post important links I will.

Thing is regarding SiN and Meph/D3x's defense is that it's pretty risky for scum-scum to do it. I'm not saying I'm ruling them out, but they aren't important to what I'm looking at right now.

I'm still looking at Slandaar for being scum, but I'm still looking at Absta-slot.

Though I'm still not sold on Slandaar being scum due to the counter-wagon. I mean there's WIFOM involved trying to speculate why they tried to build a counter-wagon on Slandaar.

As for the Absta-slot:

He told Conman to replace out because of the self-vote.
Calls Conman scum in this post after replying to Kthx, but doesn't vote him.
This post destroys what looks like a reaction test from NS.
Intent to hammer here after only calling Conman scum back in an earlier post.
Keeps calling Conman scummy, but lack of vote is apparent.
States he will vote Conman for a Policy Lynch. Where did the scumread on Conman go? (Located here)

Then we have the replacement of Absta who shadily hammers Conman after being pressured by SK. Doesn't give reads out.

----

I'm still looking at Qwints. I can see him busing Conman for town-cred because he sensed that the wagon was going to appear back later on. Located in this post.

Already stated that this post gave me a horrible reaction while reading it.
Reasons:
1. Why would scum-Coman put both his partners as "undecided". Yet when Conman leaves players out of his lists that doesn't seem to raise an eyebrow. Shown in this post. Which leads to me that he knows what Conman is going to flip and distance himself.

---

I'm going to:

Vote: Dun

---

So currently I'm looking at Qwints and Absta-slot as possible scum.
I think it's likely that Kthx is town.
The Meph/D3x's slot doesn't look good due to the defense nor does the SiN slot. Not really convinced of them being scum as of yet.

[Malakittens]

Still doesnt matter. It was pretty fairy obvious what NS was going to do with the test anyways. I didn't spot it because I honestly missed it by Fitz. Fitz may have stopped it at first by saying you're voting Con, but Absta wanted to ask for an explanation.

Do you really want me to sit here and explain why town destroying traps is helpful?

Even if we leave out this one thing by Absta doesn't change the fact the slot has been pretty shady. Ill admit though at one point during Day 1 I was beginning to doubt my scum read on Absta, but the hammer along with the flip just made me think otherwise on that.

[Malakittens]

The hammer was shady. The replacement didn't even post any reads yet was pressured into hammering. Which basically means we don't know whether or not he had a scum read or a town read on Con before hammering. We had two other replacements before Dun and they supplied content, but we are allowing Dun to slide by why?

[Malakittens]

I'm able to read Huntress more accurately than anyone else in this player list.
I'm shocked as hell because I wasn't seeing her as a Mason really or even a PR for that matter. >.>

---

I don't likely policy lynches at all, but the only time I'll do it if it's actually justified. To me being a VI and lynching a VI doesn't feel like a policy lynch to me.

---

Wonderful. I just stated that there's WIFOM involved in speculating about it yet you are asking me for information.

"They" as in Conman's scum partners tried to build a counter-wagon. I would think that some of Conman's partners were located on the Slandaar wagon.

[Malakittens]

I'm really not entirely set that Slandaar is scum due to how the counter wagon appeared. I mean yes he can be scum, but it's a risky move to have two scum buddies on the blocking block like we had during Day 1.

I'm still thinking that Qwints or Dun is scum. Not sure how plausibile them both being scum is, but I think it's something worth looking at. To be frank the way Qwints voted and then the way Conman FoS'd him looks like complete distancing.

Just forgot that people are still V/LA for the holidays, but hopefully when it's over a post will come from the Absta-slot.

[Malakittens]

The way SiN defended is extremely risky for scum-scum. I think Qwints is more suspect than NS tbh.

[Malakittens]

Actually. Qwints I find it funny that you thought if Con flipped scum then the team had to be Absta/me for the last scum yet you aren't pushing it and I literally mean not at all. Why's that?

>.>

vote: Qwints

I have my reasons presented somewhere in my earlier Day 2 post why I'm voting him now.

[Malakittens]

I will admit that I may have prod-dodged with my last post or two. I have had a friend visiting over and she's leaving today before I go to work. My time will be free more now. >_>

[Malakittens]

Slandaar why are you still continually defending Absta-slot? I have never seen town-Absta rage-replace like he did, but I have one game where scum-Absta replaced out in a similar fashion to this game.

Are you trying to tell us that we should ignore everything that Absta did and allow Dun a new clean slate and to not vote him because his overall slot is scummy?

Vote: Dun

I'll admit that I don't like SiN's post 696.

[Malakittens]

Ignore the last post of mine. He didn't rage-replace in the game I was thinking of, but just simply replaced out, but due to many games.
I went through other games and saw other games where town-Absta has replaced out.

Still there is other reasons to think Absta is scum regardless of the replace out and those reasons are actually quite strong.

[Malakittens]

Try this post of mine.

[Malakittens]

You do know that it's mostly town that controls the wagons due to there being a bunch more townies than scum, right? Or what do you mean by these sentences exactly?

I'm very aware that it's mostly town that controls wagons, but I still think it's very unlikely to have two scum wagons like that on Day 1. Ofc there's always going to be more town than scum numbers.
Have you ever played a game where Day 1 has two wagons that both have been scum?
It's possible for them both to be scum, but I really doubt it, tbh.

---

Funny, Rofl, you are a funny, funny man. Funny how the two deaths that you want right now are actually pushing for your death atm. Not counting Gorgon, but Qwints/I are.

---

As for the Mason claiming. I think we should have he/she/them possibly claim in the future, but not right now.

Right now is too soon and I think it's too early. I mean it gives town an advantage to have at least one confirmed town running around, but there are way more advantages to waiting than doing it today or even tomorrow.

[Malakittens]

If I tell you that ruins the plan doesn't it? Think harder.

[Malakittens]

Mmk. I do have to say that is a fast wagon that built up on me after one post.

Only person who I think is probably scum on that wagon is Rofl. I already stated my reasons for his whole slot being scum and his entry into the game hasn't decreased that nor has his quick vote on me after SK voted.

Reasons for an advantage for the masons not to claim was this:

a) Force a possible cornered scum into claiming Mason and then having a real Mason counterclaim them.
b) The fact the mason claiming now will decrease the scum need to search for the mason or any other PR to be exact. If they don't claim the scum have a harder job to do rather than an easier one.
c) You're potentially asking for a protective role to protect a claimed Mason where it can be used elsewhere.

So those were my reasons for advantages to why I believe the Mason(s) should not claim right now.

[Malakittens]

No, you're not confirmed town, Rofl, please don't try and act like you are. You are the only one on the wagon who I believe isn't town, but I do think SK and NS probably are.

[Malakittens]

Rofl, when I flip town does that make you scum for sure then?

So, I'm scummy for calling out Rofl because two of the three suspects that he's going after actually pushing for his lynch. To me it feels that he's being a bit OMGUS-y.

How is hunting for scum and telling my thoughts scummy? I don't think that SK or NS are scum and I have my reasons for that, but I have already addressed why you're slot is scummy in general.

Actually, right now the only person who is really conf-town would be the mason that would claim. I'm not fearing for someone to be conf-town, but you are acting like it so I called you out on it.

[Malakittens]

I never said I was against it. I just don't think right now is the right time.

[Malakittens]

Going to straight respond to SK and then I'll respond to SiN and others in another post so it's not super long.

@ Mala: You haven't tried to debunk what I said about you in 738, even though the things I said triggered your wagon. That doesn't bode well for getting yourself out of the noose.

As for your reasons for the Mason(s) not claiming:

a) Force a possible cornered scum into claiming Mason and then having a real Mason counterclaim them.

Why in the name of god would a scum want to claim Mason? Since the Masons know their own, a scumclaim of Mason means instant death for the scum who made the claim (as any counterclaim will lock the lynch into a 1v1, and if the scum doesn't get lynched the first time, he's instantly lynched the following day).

b) The fact the mason claiming now will decrease the scum need to search for the mason or any other PR to be exact. If they don't claim the scum have a harder job to do rather than an easier one.

If the Mason(s) claim, then town has confirmed innocents, and now the scum have to choose whether or not they WIFOM a potential doc to kill off a confirmed townie (because confirmed townies mean they can't be mislynched, which is bad for the scumteam). Yes, it tells scum who a power role is; but if there's a doc in the game, good luck getting the confirmed Mason killed off before killing the doc. And confirmed townies are much more valuable than power roles because, again, they can't be mislynched, and because you know they'll always be telling their honest opinions.

c) You're potentially asking for a protective role to protect a claimed Mason where it can be used elsewhere.

And how is not protecting a confirmed town member a good idea, exactly? Au contraire, this actually makes a doc even more useful by confirming a good target to him.

1. Frankly this question boils down to why any scum would fake-claim a role in any game. Main point is I have seen corned scum do some crazy things for extra time.

2 & 3. I agree that the Mason claiming is probably a good thing, but it's not when the protection role can be used elsewhere. If there is something else that is more important for protection that should be used rather than asking for a mason claim.

Forgive me if I think that looks a lot more like you're against Mason claiming than for it, particularly with the "way more advantages to waiting" line. When, exactly, do you purport to be a good time for the claim?

No, you are just treating my words in that way. Yes there are currently way more advantages to having the mason wait to claim rather than them claiming at this moment. A good time for the claim possibly a day or so more. All I know is that I feel a mason claiming right now is not the best time.

Incidentally, I think SiN has a good point regarding not doing the claim until tomorrow.

You do realize if you read my prior posts before SiN that I made the exact same point as him, but it wasn't as subtle. So why are you saying he has a good point, but totally disregarding any points that I have said which basically is the same exact thing.

[Malakittens]

I do see the wishiwashiness on the conman read, though. Mala doesn't really analyze conman until he's right about to be lynched; she questions him a lot, she explains why he could be scum (but not really why he could be town), but she never actually goes through with a vote on him until the very end. Mala, was your only reasoning for conman-town that he gave you a newtown vibe?

Actually, I was questioning and analyzing him for a while, but I saw both reasons why he could have been scum or town for that matter. Part of me decided to go into that site that he was referring to and I actually did. Though I don't think I went far enough into it because I never saw anything that was related to mafia on the forums.

Another reason I was going back and forth with my read on Kthx and I thought that he was tunneling a lot on Conman which clouded my feeling for a possible scum-Con and SiN your adamant defense of Con was also giving me pause. Other than that I had no solid evidence that Conman-town was possibly town other than a new-town vibe.

Once I got down to digging deep onto Conman I realized that he was probably scum because of the approach that was being taken. He was being very appeasing, but also because his reads were staying the same. I feel that town sometimes waffle a lot on reads especially with new posts coming out, but his reads weren't. I also noticed a lot of his reads were based on people who were attacking him for scum which was something that I felt was very close to OMGUSy. He was also asking for others reads on players, but not giving his own.

[Malakittens]

Question Kthx.. If you have a town read on me; why would you even vote me in the first place. Hypothetically speaking.

[Malakittens]

I don't have any reason to disbelieve it or the result, but imo the only person really conf-town is the Mason to me.

[Malakittens]

Lets wait for Slandaar and Qwints to come into the thread and post their views.

I think I'm going to bed though.

[Malakittens]

Saint, I never said the Mason shouldn't claim. I never said that. I said it isn't the best time to do it now, but claim in a day or so. Which is basically what SiN said after me. I gave my reasons all of which is basically what SiN said, but not straightforward as he said it. I really hate when players give benefit to one for saying the same thing, but refuse to give the same to someone else.

Lets come to an agreement whether or not the remaining Mason should claim today or tomorrow.

[Malakittens]

Considering I won't be around tommorow since I'm working a long shift, but the only time I'll be around is on break or before I go in.

I'm claiming now, I'm huntress' Mason partner.

I was actually toying with the decision to claim and be confirmed town or keep it quiet once Huntress died.

[Malakittens]

If you thought that then why did you vote me for it. You voting basically was indirectly forcing me to claim if a wagon happened on me, which it did. You say you didn't want to rolefish for the Mason, but your last post doesn't reflect that.

[Malakittens]

I'm very aware you didn't vote me for that. I'm just stating that you were somewhat expecting me to flip mason due to a reaction, but still kept your vote on me. Just seems to me that you were reaction fishing in the first place and even mason fishing which is opposite of what you stated.

I do admit though. My trivial tone was actually a quote from a show I was watching, but switched the name. >.>

[Malakittens]

Kthx he goes on to say it because he thinks I'm lying about the claim.

Qwints if you read any of my posts you'll see why I didn't think it was the best time to claim today which was due to NS and SK. I had to claim because of that vig kill and SK pushing for my death.

If you read my ISO and Huntress' ISO you'll see we had minimum interactions with each other, but we defended each other a bit. You can see that to some extent in ace's ISO too.

[Malakittens]

Also Gorgon; I do have to say there was a question asked which scum would be on my wagon and you said rofl yet right now you're going after Qwints instead. I can see one of Qwints/rofl being scum, but not entirely sold on both.

[Malakittens]

It's something regarding interactions that comes off as they wouldn't be scum together. It's pausible, but I don't think so tbh.

Rofl we can base your read on your posts, but doesn't change the fact what your predecessors did was scummy. I don't like how your callin Absta a spaz because I don't feel he is one. Dun did flake yes, but he was here before having to flake and barely contributed.

[Malakittens]

Forgot to add. I was trying to crumb I was her partner in Day 1 even though what I was crumbing was honest because I can read her fairly accurate and do have a reaction test to use on her. I did have a town read on her before I replaced in, but that was only strengthened.

Anyways, back to work. >.>

[Malakittens]

So has other players, but doesn't give you the right to call them a spaz.

[Malakittens]

Rofl...

Any chance you replaced into two games where you ended up getting scum and town roles? If you have any you give the names of them so I can briefly check your ISO.

[Malakittens]

I'm in between Rofl or Qwints.

I rather have a Rofl lynch, but I'll settle for a Qwints lynch.

Kthx's your latest posts are making me doubt my semi-town read on you.

[Malakittens]

Oh, I pretty cleared you from being scum due to Day 1 and I'm definitely paying attention to interactions.

I wasn't talking about your latest post with Rofl.

I was talking about your #854. Where you just attempted to line up Slandaar's lynch followed by Rofl's lynch.

Then when you literally dropped your Slandaar vote all together and voted Rofl and put him back at L-1.

Then removing your vote so easily after Rofl said his latest post.

[Malakittens]

pretty much**

[Malakittens]

Ugh. Hell, I hate this. I'm flip flopping around on my read on Rofl.

I was even talking about it with Huntress. The one thing that made me question my scum-read on Absta was how he responded to me when I first started to attack him. There was only one game in which Absta and I have played where I did not full-on attack him for being scummy. Every time I went after him he ended up being town, but the one game I didn't directly attack him he was scum.

There were meta reasons for me thinking he was town when I was reading his scum meta against his town meta.

---

Vote: Qwints

---

Right now, I'm willing to give Rofl the benefit of the doubt and to give him maybe a day to get settled in. I normally do it with replacements, but Absta's interactions with Conman gave me pause.

---

I suppose you can be right about Rofl in that sense Kkthx.
I was browsing at Rofl's meta a bit to see if I could see a difference between how he plays as town/scum. I have only seen him play as scum once, but never as town.

[Malakittens]

Wow. I really thought there was going to be an SK.

Nice job guys <3

Huntress and I's QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/fDQhmHXW4iEu9

[Malakittens]

Kthx, you knew I was the Mason before I claimed.. Didn't you?

[Malakittens]

I was off on Absta/Rofl a lot. That was my worse, worse read. I did though if you read.. Double guessed and called him town and then went back to attack him. -__-

[Malakittens]

I was off on Absta/Rofl a lot. That was my worse, worse read. I did though if you read.. Double guessed and called him town and then went back to attack him. -__-

[Malakittens]

Oh my god. Computer seriously. Okay that means bed time <3

[Malakittens]

No, I thought he was the SK. xD

[Malakittens]

I'm just stubborn ;]

No, Idk.. Maybe because I felt the bulletproof goon meant SK and not Vig.

[Malakittens]

):

Why Huntress didn't you tell me to hush in DQT when I was rambling on about a SK