Micro 121: SS9 (Game over!)

[Lincolm]

Vote : Kmd

Why wicked?

[Lincolm]

Lol, Sorry for that start joking, but that's quiet funny with that choo-choo.

Pretty good analyze for RVS, but absolutely wrong.

I will say Wicked with Cheery then. Sheeping Kmd, choo-choo!

Vote : Wicked

[Lincolm]

OK

Vote : Lincolm

!

OMG SHINY WAGON! L-2 Go go go!

[Lincolm]

That's good. Meaning at least 1 scums in my wagon. And the hammer will be townie. VCA going to be good in day 2.

[Lincolm]

You will know after my flip.

This is still page 1, so I do not care too much about scummy and townish.

[Lincolm]

Why asking?

I already prepare the picture If I die.

[Lincolm]

Well, I just gonna say the hammer will feel the consequences (seeking in micro list again). lol

OK in all of seriousness, I think I need serious.

Asking in next post!

[Lincolm]

-unneeded apology for joking. Sign of nervousness/appeasing

[1]

-calls a joke a good analysis. I hate to use a buzzword, but classic buddying.

[2]

-feels the need to point out that wicked is wrong. First of all, it wasn't a real suspicion. Second of all, it looks like you are worried that a big post calls you out as scum and even if it's a joke, it's out there to be discussed.

[3]

[1] RVS for gain information, because of my joke, we didn't get that. I think I need. Why not?
[2] Is that a joke? Why it is a joke?
[3] Same with 2. Why it is a joke?

To clear my question :

...I think I've got it. The scum team is Lincolm, Kmd4390, and Blueberry. Lincolm, aware of the fact that his post is similar to Kmd's, knows he has to make his different to avoid suspicion; he does this by adding a colon to his vote with a space between it and the word 'vote'- something a town-alligned player would never naturally do. Note, also, that he refers to Kmd4390 as 'Kmd' rather than 'Kmd4390'. This is because they've already become acquainted in their quicktopic. Kmd votes for me in an effort to chainsaw defend Blueberry, because he is not here to defend against my allegations towards him.

@Kmd : Is this really a joke? Because if it yes, I don't see what the funny with this and it isn't funny.

We basically have two chances to lynch scum each day. the lynch target could be scum. If not, they could kill scum.

You think the scum want to hammer? Why?

The point

s

made by Lincolm against Lincolm prove that Lincolm is scum

Which points and why?

[Lincolm]

In seriousness, yes.

[Lincolm]

I don't know why it is joke, because sometimes there is someone who like to see minor details (like that), I thought he was. But I don't take it seriously because I was not serious.

I believe the ones who were fast to call it a joke are the most likely ones to be scum though

Why?

given how he gives me a newbie feel

Another why?

[Lincolm]

Lincolm, aware of the fact that his post is similar to Kmd's, knows he has to make his different to avoid suspicion; he does this by adding a colon to his vote with a space between it and the word 'vote'-

What does that make my use of the vote tags to do the exact thing?

Somehow I read this message, "Wicked's post #9 not a joke"... Correct me if I'm wrong.

@Blueberry : Y U not say L-1?

[Lincolm]

Somehow I read this message, "Wicked's post #9 not a joke"... Correct me if I'm wrong.

Were you not in a game where I've said I take everything seriously? I have no sense of humour when reading other people's game posts.

anyway I heard you were on L-1, and I feel something needs to do somebody about that.
VOTE: Lincolm

No, I haven't heard it. What I know people like a joke.

And you already vote me. That's not a hammer.

[Lincolm]

p-edit, congrats in reacting in a way which makes me want to leave my vote there.

Hint : I ever fake hammering. I don't think you're town.

I agree with your pedit though, scummy behavior to instantly ruin your test.

Don't get it. Explain more maybe?

[Lincolm]

Oh yes, for town, please remember that scum have daytalk (see role PM). They can plan something. Thanks.

[Lincolm]

A fake-hammer most likely comes from town - he wanted to get reactions from you and possibly others. You ruined it instantly and we got absolutely no reactions = You didn't act with a town mindset.

Quiet different for me. This is page 2. Everyone can count the vote (and the active still 5 persons). Meaning that fake hammer absolutely failure plan.

Not gonna trust Cheery here.

P-Edit : Nah, that's what I thought, he didn't expect anything.

[Lincolm]

Good thing you unvoted, now I can vote.

VOTE: Lincolm

Elaborate on what is wrong with my reaction, Cheery.

You afraid of hammering? Why?

[Lincolm]

@lincolm, ifyou don't think I'm town, why aren't you voting me instead of the person you would (or not if you're actually scum) know is town?

I have my own plan. That's all I can say.

[Lincolm]

I missed this post btw. Why did you feel like mentioning this at that time?

Because I don't want town to go to scum's trap (Well, I remembered Kmd's plan in that time, maybe there is a trap). If I already lynched and the hammer town (or vice cersa), there you go, just remember my warning. (My gut say someone will quick-hammer, hope not)

(2) If you are so concerned about you being at L-1, you might want to remove the selfvote while you're at that.

I assume you don't read this post

[Lincolm]

I find it more likely that you're scum and mentioned the daytalk for cred.

Maybe, maybe not. Let see my flip today, shall we?

[Lincolm]

Lincolm's 12 - Why sorry? In 29 he says it was because of his joke in 5 but I don't see that that is anything to apologise for; after all it was RVS. There's a bit of a disconnect between saying 5 was a joke but not understanding how Wicked's 9 was also a joke. Picks on Cheery for sheeping Kmd but not Blueberry for sheeping them both.

Because RVS for gain information. So, I destroy the RVS for joke and not gain information. Only because of that. That's my personality thought. I always sorry to town (after the game) if I was scum (if I win).
His post #9 seems like someone who like to see minor details (nah, maybe I'm the only one who thought this). So, I didn't get the joke after all.
I don't get the last sentence. I didn't pick on Cheery. I just wanted to sheeping Kmd, no reason. And sheeping them both? Do I need reason to sheeping someone (as joke) in page 1?

@ Lincolm: What do you think of Blueberry's post 15 putting you at L-1? Apart from what you said in 16.

He said he joked right there, so I'm fine with that. Personally, that #16 I type without thought lol.

[Lincolm]

Wait. I'm reading 29 and I have to ask. You thought wicked was making a serious case off of colons and numbers? (And if this has been answered, I write my posts as I read so that's why its here).

Yes, what do you think about someone like to see minor details? Because I was.

As for the hammer thing for my plan, if someone refuses, they are lynched instead. Easy.

Dunno, but I think the scum can vote someone

early

and don't get caught. So the last think they do are looking the other townie to hammer. Well, I guess you don't think about it or scum who already plan for this to manipulate. It almost likely easy to manipulate in LyLo. I like the idea though... I will follow if not in LyLo.

Hold up. Lincolm didn't think it was a joke, but didn't take it seriously? How is that not contradicting? And then he says he's not being serious right after wisdom says he's either town who is also joking or bluffing scum. So he comes in all like "oh yeah its the town one". Ok. Not buying it.

No, it's not contradicting. Even I know it was serious, I don't like to explain it in page 1, so I didn't take it seriously. Huh? Wisdom didn't say anything about that. You exaggerated it.

I want wisdom to hammer lincolm. Lincolm pointing out daytalk made me think. My plan for town to control hammers is the kind of thing where scum might go to a QT and say "hey we have to shoot this down. Someone vote him". I'm disturbed that it's not even being discussed. I'm guessing the other scum won't talk about my plan negatively because they don't want to be too obvious and all in agreement in thread.

If your plan is too flawless, of course a thinker like Wisdom (I have play with him before) thought about it. If I was the scum with daytalk, I will follow your strategy and discuss to manipulate it, not tell town to not to do it. Congrats, you try to manipulate us.

You know what has me second guessing on Lincolmscum? The self-vote. I'm not sure he'd leave it there at L-1 this whole time.

You know the setup well

and that self-vote bad? Tell me why it is bad. Because I find it pretty interesting to do in this setup.

[Lincolm]

Personally, I do see lincolm as scum for the self vote and asking for the hammer vote because it's extremely EXTREMELY antitown. Not only will scum not be stupid enough to hammer, town is the most likely to and if he's scum, he's relying on someone to point this out and use it against ourselves. So we can only lose at the lylo.

You are too exaggerated it. Why it is anti-town? If I'm town and the hammer town, it isn't. And everyone already post and no one point that out. Do you think quickhammer not gonna happen? Boo. I see many Micros done this a lot. Also, this is nightless, if no one hammer, the game is not going anywhere.

Why you don't think I will unvote?

Effing game is so freaking overpowered it's crazy.
I don't think we should lynch Lincolm just yet. I want to know what the HELL he's thinking for having such a scumplay. Either he's still acting nubbish or he didn't read the setup as well as we all should have (I sure didn't)

Woah I just realized that this is a 3 scum in a 9 player game that has town vengekills. This is over poweredly scumsided O.O

^Isn't this acting nubbish? Tell me why I'm acting nubbish because I don't do it.

[Lincolm]

Lincoln - Mind explaining what you got out of analyzing RVS?

Actually I do it only because it is better than not voting (dunno why people say it will gain information (even I already read wiki), but I follow it). But I try to joke in here. My experience tell that reaction on RVS is the information. So, you know, I destroy the RVS because everyone do the choo-choo. Well, that sheep for the new RVS because it still in page 1. So, I don't get anything.

P-Edit : That explain more, but I don't think someone will hammer (gut say that lol, except Slimer).

[Lincolm]

Post 12- Lincolm, why did you vote for me in this post? And do you feel that this vote was more helpful/productive than your vote for Kmd? If so, why?

A new RVS. I destroyed the first RVS. I don't think the first will gain information.

Lincolm, you say there is at least one scum on your bandwagon (Cheery Dog, Kmd, Lincolm, Blueberry). Why did you say that? The only serious non-Lincolm votes on this bandwagon were from Kmd and Blueberry- are you saying you think at least one of those two people are mafia?

Pretty sorry. I type it without thought. Lol

I think Lincolm is probably town. I've seen scum fake fearlessness before, but Lincolm's self vote and response to the pressure seems a little over the top to be a scum gambit. I believe that he doesn't care about the negative attention. I would like to know who he suspects and would like a response to my questions, but as of right now I'd be surprised if he turned out to be scum.

I want to be the hammer if not in LyLo.

Nah, I got my scumread in everyone. I need think more before post it.

Everyone post already? It means

Unvote

[Lincolm]

So Lincolm, who is scum? I see signs of suspecting kmd in your post but you didn't vote him.

My top scumread is Kmd and Slimer. No change about that. I still doubt with my other read.

I don't like vote in this setup. I like to hammer them if nobody want, even in LyLo. And if I'm in L-1, no one should hammer me except them.

Vote in this setup just give me bad feeling everywhere.

[Lincolm]

So here it is my read :

Wisdom is town. I already get it from post #32. Based on meta related also, he is a thinker. When he said :

-The inclusion of the last paragraph in 13 looks pre-prepared, something that he had thought of posting in his first serious post.

If he is scum, he won't say this. This is how a thinker town aware with someone plan.

Wicked is town. I like his post #103. Somehow I fine that pretty genuine, especially when he explain more about the plan and when he asked to Huntress. About the plan, if I am scum, I won't say that. He calculate the bad conditions. That's very good.

I don't know too much about Mala, Huntress, and Blueberry... (well, blueberry's account have been made for lynch)

I still doubt about Cheery thought. That fake hammer seems not planned before, he just got that idea in that time (meaning I think he is town). But for me that fake hammer really really bad (meaning I think he is scum). Dunno...

Kmd is scum. I like he mention the plan in #13, but he didn't calculate bad conditions after that. Somehow I find it scum want to manipulate town and that proved in his post #86. Will tell all of you all of bad conditions.

Slimer is scum. His post #98 isn't genuine. Somehow that post feel already prepared before. Almost likely what he said in there is what Kmd said. He didn't see other people, except me. And based on meta related also. What I know, Slimer is reckless and simple person, not post like that.

[Lincolm]

>.> Last time you copied and reworded my reads you were scum. Why are you doing it again?

I never copy someone read to my read. Our first game, that read really a coincidence (well, whatever you thought about that). I won't fake my read. Seems we have kind of connection with a read. Well, I usually copy the construction of the post because I don't find the most easy to read.

That self-vote to see people reaction. I like Mala who said don't self-vote. Dunno why she dislike it. I like to see who want to put in L-1. Which are for me a scum want to save their self from hammer. Correct me if I wrong, that was Blueberry, Wisdom, and Slimer. In other side that was failed because I forgot someone not willing to unvote.

If you find a typo (because I find), you know how it pronounce. My hand type how it pronounce.

So, here it is some bad conditions of that plan :

a.) A mafia goon on the end of the largest bandwagon unvotes just before deadline to cause the death of the next-to-last voter.
b.) Somebody refuses to hammer not long before deadline.

Of course it is bad. That's why I think the scum will early vote and don't want to hammer. It's good to post who you want to hammer and not.

You know that there is 3 scums. Potentially 3 scum can direct town to ask townie to hammer. I don't like the plan because it is easy to manipulate because of this.

[Lincolm]

the easy way to fix those issues is to have the kammerer decided before deadline.
Today we have it extra easy because if a goon does either of those things, we can freely lynch them tomorrow.

If a refusal to hammer happens at any time, I think the best option is to reverse the lychees and hammerers around. If both refuse them we've probably caught two mafia, and can freely be killed.

It isn't that easy. The hammerer can refuse to not hammer. And when we want to reverse, the next the lynchee don't want to hammer also. Doesn't mean that both of them two mafias, if the hammer (town) have townread with the lynchee (town also), also vice versa, they won't hammer each other. Then, you accuse them as mafia but no one hammer them. When the deadline come, the recent vote get killed, of course if the recent vote is mafia, he will unvote, and it's too late to gain wagon again. In LyLo, we are going to lose because follow this damn plan.

It is easy to explain, but it isn't easy to do. Let see how this work in day 1 if people agree to do it.

Please take this note, in LyLo you should think twice follow this plan. Townie will not hammer his townread, also the scum. Pick the pairing wisely.

I don't want to follow this plan if it isn't necessary to do. If I want to hammer, I will do it. I choose my own hammer also.

[Lincolm]

This is probably the worst post ever I've seen coming from you. I'm disappoint.

Originally, I didn't full read my own role PM (I just read my role and how to confirm), but I read the scum role PM in first page (to gain more information) and I read the wiki only, but I checked my role when Wicked posted about the plan if someone unvote in deadline. Meaning, everyone can do that mistake if they are lazy. (because I'm lazy also)

Somehow... Dunno... I like that random vote... Scum want to make a case then vote early as fast as they can then (so they not hammer), but I don't see that from Cheery. Well...

I don't think CDog would be so scummy if he was scum (fallacy, I know), and as such I don't think he's the best lynch. I'd maybe consider to have him be the hammerer.

So, you agree with Kmd's plan?

That's like the definition of 'too scummy to be scum', the logical fallacy. If somebody's scummy they are lynched.

I like that fallacy though. I ever once use that before. (In my first newbie game)

Don't you think some of the scum would try to participate in town's strategizing regardless?

I think yes. If not, scums cannot manipulate it. But, If I'm scum, I will discuss it first in QT but still post in thread about (fake) hunting scum, then after the other agree, we will begin posting about the plan. WIFOM thought.

[Lincolm]

So, you agree with Kmd's plan?

Yes, I think we all agree anyways. As I said, this plan is not something that kmd came up with, it existed already as a recommended way to deal with this setup.

I just got bad feeling about this plan... I feel I'm going to be manipulated... I'm not recommended it in LyLo. (Meaning, I'm still not full agree it)

[Lincolm]

But as far as scum goes, tell me what do we get out of 2 town deaths? If someone hammered you, the only person that would have been was a townie. That's you dead, and him dead. Day 2. No good info, no strong leads, just you messing around and suicide bombing (assuming that you're town to even pull such a stunt)

I agree that is anti-town after Cheery told it, but doesn't mean that is scummy. You mention that I'm scum because I self-vote. Why?
Also, you don't answer my question,

Why you don't think I will unvote?

Elaborate. What about me really does make me this scummy person you're trying to percieve everyone to see.

Slimer is scum. His post #98 isn't genuine. Somehow that post feel already prepared before. Almost likely what he said in there is what Kmd said. He didn't see other people, except me. And based on meta related also. What I know, Slimer is reckless and simple person, not post like that.

You should read more. I already said it.

And maybe KMD is his scumbuddy and the only reason he wants to hammer him is because he feels safe. You seem to only be thinking in a one track mind, like you always do. Same old wizzy :'3

What if I choose you? Fell safe now? You're my top suspect, not Kmd. See my read. Top is towniest and bottom is scummiest.

I actually was being reckless in that first post, I thought I was putting you
at L-1 for no reason and to see the reactions of other people. That didn't really go so well, per say. If I hadn't read, I'd be shot off as completely oblivious to your whole "LETS KILL A TOWNIE!!!!" scheme.

Absolutely I don't care about the L-1. If someone hammer me, they will feel the consequence. I already said it. If you think I want to kill townie with my role, then you think I'm scum? Wow. Why I do that?

@Lincolm
For now, I believe we should vote who we believe is scum, and only when we decide who are the scummiest will the plan come into play. So don't worry too much about it yet.

Because I believe you, I will do it. *sigh* That plan is killing me.

Vote : Kmd

He actually quoted the whole of kmd's post just to answer to one small line.

That's why I suspect him more.

[Lincolm]

I would think scum would take the most traction to the plan. Since it forces them into a defensive rather offensive mode. It corners them. >.>

So, who you think the most traction to the plan? Because I think it is me.

I think they will more offensive than defensive, because they must make a case, vote townie, and look other townie to become hammer. Why you think they will more defensive? Because I don't see why it corners them.

If it helps you - slimer played the newbie card in his first scum game, and it worked for him, as everyone thought he's for sure town.

Lol you were in there.

[Lincolm]

@lincolm: sticks and stones my break my bones, but one in the chamber is a better game.

stump stump you stump you stump, but it is because you're scum.

[Lincolm]

@Mala : Well, answer my questions also please? It's in post #186.

P-Edit : If you're scum, 1 is truly scum, 1 is town. Guess what? Thanks.

P-P-Edit : It is.

[Lincolm]

Only bad thing I do see about KMD's plan which could in the future hurt is accidentally mistake a scum member not wanting to hammer for a town member. I wouldn't be so quick to want to lynch someone who refuses to hammer.

Maybe that happen, but the most bad thing happen for me, both of them don't want hammer each other. So, the plan is killing me.

I have to do more research on this setup to see how the town is more likely to win.

Sounds weird. Because I try to see how the mafias win, so I can prevent it. Different thought maybe.

[Lincolm]

If Mafia are able to manipulate us into killing ourselves, good on them, there's nothing we can do to stop them.

That's why I don't like the plan. I get feeling I will be manipulated.

I'm still writing and reading Huntress and Wicked post. I'm try to understand both of them.

[Lincolm]

Maybe it's just me, but I would have been a trifle irritated if I had logged in and found a pm sent because I hadn't posted in a game just a few hours old. Differing time zones mean not everyone's going to be available at the same time. Your action seemed premature.

Well, I disagree this. I have played with someone who already confirm (via PM), but he forgot to bookmark, so he never came until mod prodded him.

And the "misrep" related to another point. Not this.

You should point it because I didn't see Wisdom misrep it.

So you expected people to ignore the only thing that was going on in the thread at the time and do what?

Do another discussions. Do other reaction test. Did we should get our eyes in 1 discussion? If I knew that Wicked's joke and Cheery's fake hammer to look some reactions, I would wait other people to post also, to see their reaction. Well, I guess reaction test only work for someone who don't know it is reaction test... (well, it's me who don't know)

I dislike your post #207, because you don't try to see how other people think. Maybe that's how you play though...

P-Edit : It is feeling. Gut. That's why I said I won't follow it in LyLo before. But, the feeling said they will manipulate from beginning. That's why I said I won't follow it if it isn't necessary.
What two manipulations? The manipulation I thought, scums make town to make a pairing town - town. The causes? Town lose of course.

[Lincolm]

It doesn't actually matter in LYLO, if we're lynching a town member we're practically already lost no matter who hammers.

?
If I'm not wrong (I read the wiki), Super Saiyan role work also in LyLo, which mean the hammer will dead also if the lynchee is SS. If the lynchee SS, but the hammer is mafia, isn't the hammer get killed also?

[Lincolm]

Mafia just won't quickhammer there if left to their own devices.

I know the mafia won't quickhammer, also town. The reverse of lynchee and hammeree to anticipate this. Somehow the last thing mafia will do, make the pairing town - town.
(Basically what I'm afraid is 7P and 5P LyLo. You mention it.)

[Lincolm]

If you wanted to sheep Kmd, then why didn't you sheep him in your first post?

Dunno. I just got an idea to create that "copy reason" immediately in (first) RVS when I saw Kmd's post. Why you ask it?

if we play intelligently then I think we can prevent any unwanted/unplanned deaths from occurring.

Currently I still don't find it how, but we never find it if we don't do the plan I think. I wish I'm optimistic like you.

That's interesting... why? If you are town, then why would you prefer your potential death to the death of a potential mafia member?

Sorry If I'm not clear explain it. The correct one is the post #114. Because I had scumread everywhere before, so I didn't care to be hammer. Too much emotion I think.

Can you elaborate on this please? I'm not seeing it. And what do you think of my points?

Basically that is based on his meta. I know that he is a far away thinker. Because of this :

The inclusion of the last paragraph in 13 looks pre-prepared

This is how a thinker aware with scum's plan or wary with someone plan. If a thinker is a scum, I don't think they will say something like this, which like a disagreement of the plan and accuse the person who said it.
Which point of yours? Because I think I don't find it. What I find is this but I don't think it is correct one :

Wisdom looks even more suspicious. His vote for Kmd4390 seemed poorly justified and his vote for Lincolm looks opportunistic. Also, I find it strange that he has suspicion of both Kmd4390 and Lincolm given their interactions.

[Lincolm]

How did we just call Super Saint to Super Saiyan? xD

Lol dunno why I always remember Super Saint as Super Saiyan and Tracey.

If town isn't active in it, it may not even be mafia that makes the pairings.

Maybe. I think the mafias will more aggressive make those pairings.

[Lincolm]

Then after we're decided we ditch the whole thing and lynch the person pushing a pairing the hardest.

I guess. I think I divulge all of it so mafias work better...

[Lincolm]

I think you're overly paranoid in the first place.

Yes, it is. I'm pessimist.

[Lincolm]

Lincolm, you misunderstood me about the self-vote. It's the reason why I think you are town.

I don't think that self-vote point to someone alignment (which mean null), like Cheery's fake hammer, someone thought that pro-tools, someone thought that maybe Cheery tried to gain towncreed. In my case, I tried to see who tried to put me in L-1, in other side, maybe I'm scum who tried to gain towncreed also. Which one? You answer it.

Lincolm, you don't think wisdom would be a thinker as scum too? Just as town? Wouldn't scum be more worried about a plan than town? Especially if it's a good plan?

Do you think a scum thinker will blatantly disagree a good plan by town? That's not a thinker, that's idiot. If I'm normal scum who want to disagree a good plan by town, see all of my posts about the plan. Pessimist is the good way to destroy the plan. Try to not discuss it also good way. If I'm scum thinker, I will try to manipulate it, not disagree it.

You say something about me not calculating bad parts of my plan. Is it wrong to not think there's anything bad about it? The only things I've seen pointed out involve scum not hammering. I've already said that's taken care of by lynching those who refuse to hammer except in LYLO. Then there's your thing saying that scum can try to get town to hammer. No shit. Scum will also be trying to get town lynched (unless they bus). This is Mafia 101. Basic stuff. We can pick up tells on who wants who hammering just like we pick up tells on who wants who lynched.

You think only scum who will refuse to be hammer? Oh, come on! You didn't calculate everything!

The pairing have 3 conditions, scum - scum, town - scum (and vice versa), and town - town.

Mostly scum - scum don't want to hammer each other, then what happen next? Waiting deadline~.
Also someone who have townread on the lynchee don't want to hammer also and vice versa. Then what happen next? Waiting deadline~.
Anything can happen when you wait deadline.

Just example here.
Everyone thought Wisdom is scum. The second suspect is me. But I have townread on Wisdom, so I refuse. Wisdom also have townread on me, so he refuse. Meaning both of us are scums? Analyze it. If the refuse can save from 2 death of towns, even it is anti-town, I will do it.

I agree with Wicked that we should intelligent to choose. But I don't know how we have to be intelligent and we don't know how intelligent the scums are. Too many theories what I said. I'm too paranoid with the plan.

Tell me post 122 is a "thinker" post. Seriously. Wisdom is so quick to dismiss it without even evaluating the post directly above his. He knows it's a good plan for town and doesn't want it in use. He's scum.

He thinks that it is good plan because he said he have heard it before and he agrees to use it. He said he felt you try to manipulate. That is a thinker.

I said :

You know that there is 3 scums. Potentially 3 scum can direct town to ask townie to hammer. I don't like the plan because it is easy to manipulate because of this.

Then he said :

I agree that the plan can easily be used by scum to manipulate town, and that's how I felt when kmd proposed it.

I don't see where he dismiss it.

Lincolm, your description of the possibility of town refusing to hammer is exactly why it is anti-town to go against the plan as town. It eats up more deaths than we need. Well, actually, maybe it doesn't. Because in that situation, we are lynching someone who was going to die anyway.

Why refuse eats up more deaths? I don't see it. Tell me your condition. Also when it isn't.

I don't like 158 by lincolm. You didn't read the town role you want us to believe is yours, but you read the whole scum role? Doesn't seem likely. Fuck. I want to believe you are town, but you are making it so hard. Everything about you is scum except the whole self-vote L-1 thing

If I know my role, that is enough for me. If I know how it works, then it is fine for me. Mostly I read the wiki, so I know how it works. Why you think I said it? To protect Cheery? No. I'm also lazy to read it. I like to use myself as comparison. You don't like my post, but don't like Cheery's?

Wisdom, slimer is still a newbie.

Why you think he is newbie?

By the way, you still phone posting right? Try to re-read when not use phone. I'm waiting something from you. ISO me better.

[Lincolm]

If 3 scums on Wisdom's wagon, I'm going to laugh hysterically and cry in my sleep.

[Lincolm]

Wisdom/Linc, do you guys understand how unreasonable your point against slimer is? The one where the way he formats his post makes him scum? There is no way that is a tell at all. Also, "goofing off" isn't a tell for him. I've seen him as both town and scum and he played that way in both games. I agree with Blue though. Slimer is pretty funny. But it's more laughing at him than with him. He's like the kid in school who the cool kids pretend to like instead of making fun of him blatantly.

No, what he said to accuse me also what you said to accuse me before. Coincidence, huh? He also didn't see other people except myself. What a town.

This is Kmd's.

You know what has me second guessing on Lincolmscum? The self-vote. I'm not sure he'd leave it there at L-1 this whole time.

unvote, vote wisdom
^not sure who i'd want to hammer this if it were to happen...

This is Slimer's.

Personally, I do see lincolm as scum for the self vote and asking for the hammer vote because it's extremely EXTREMELY antitown. Not only will scum not be stupid enough to hammer, town is the most likely to and if he's scum, he's relying on someone to point this out and use it against ourselves. So we can only lose at the lylo.

I don't think we should lynch Lincolm just yet. I want to know what the HELL he's thinking for having such a scumplay. Either he's still acting nubbish or he didn't read the setup as well as we all should have (I sure didn't)

There you go. He just exaggerate yours to his perspective. This isn't a goof. I don't see he make a goof.

I'm fine with dying because this is how I can best help town in my opinion. I don't think I'll die anyway though because Wisdom is probably scum which is even better.

I'm fine with dying also. That is how I can help town with my opinions. I already said all of mine. Just see my flip and ISO me. And the scums will not ISO me because I try to stop the manipulation. There you go.

Oh. Lincolm, Slimer is newbie because he is new. And that last post was my first post without my phone since the game started.

I'm also new. I just 1 week earlier than Slimer. Wisdom just 1 month earlier than me. Does that make me and Wisdom a newbie?

Then you already re-read? Something strange here. You don't see I posted something strange. Meaning, you don't read all of the posts. (This is the first time I do this, so maybe I'm wrong.)

By the way, there is one important question I like you to answer it.

Why refuse eats up more deaths? I don't see it. Tell me your condition. Also when it isn't.

[Lincolm]

I get feeling I will be hammered by the most weak scum. You know what I mean.

[Lincolm]

You missed the point on slimer. Wisdom pointed out that he quoted a whole post to reply to like one line and called it scummy. I thought you agreed but apparently its just yet another misunderstanding. So your issue is that he reversed his read on you after I did the same?

It is Wisdom's read. Not to care to much because we have same suspects. Sometimes I found that wall kind of scum try to look active. Although I do it a lot also because I don't like post too many so I can reply in 1 post. Whatever.

Yes, this is my own read. Not reversed, he used your read to his read with his perspective in his post. And he only post read on me, not the other after what happen. After I explained everything and asked to him, he just go off, "I have plane to catch". I'm going to kill myself if this is town reaction.

I have no idea what you are talking about that is strange.

Just forget it. I'm not sure that can point someone alignment. I misinterpret 1 of your post, and you don't ask it.

Let's say we have two players who everyone thinks are scum.

For fun

, let's say both are actually town. Plan would have one hammer the other. Oops, wrong. Day 2 minus two townies. If they refuse to go with the plan, we have to lynch one on Day 1 and likely lose a townie because no scum is going to actually hammer after a townie refuses and the same happens Day 2. So now we are down four townies and two days. We waste a day and two town lives because town players didn't want to cooperate.

Please, not for fun, for bad cases.

Well, that's not too bad scenario I think. But the reverse of lynchee and hammeree happen right? And we choose our own hammeree, so even scum don't want to hammer and town have townread on the scum, after deadline 2 townies dead (recent vote killed) or only scum. I guess that isn't too bad scenario, but when we wait deadline everything can happen, that is the bad, the good things if town - town changed when deadline, but almost likely impossible.

By the way, if I'm scum, I like to be hammeree than lynchee. You know what I mean.

I'm quiet dizzy with the plan. If everyone agree to do it, then I will follow it. Just don't expect too much from me become hammeree and I choose my own hammer.

[Lincolm]

I also have that gut for this day.

Dunno. I just think of head bang in my head every time I read this thread.

Maybe the scums like to see we accuse each other in day 1, maybe we already being manipulated.

I don't know why people only get their eyes on Wisdom, Kmd, and me. Oh god...

[Lincolm]

Lincolm, are you willing to hammer wisdom?

No. I'm willing to hammer you or Slimer. But somehow, I still want to keep you alive for now. (because activity, I don't like lack of activity because that make scum win easily)

[Lincolm]

Okay, I don't have an idea why it is double post.

@Mod

: Fix it please.

Fixed.

[Lincolm]

But since it got scum dead, I can't really complain.

I complain it. Even with dead of 1 town and 1 goon, we can just lynch Slimer, not Wisdom.

The death of a mafia goon for the price of one townie seems like a great trade

It isn't great trade. I pissed off in here now.

Need to calm myself first.

[Lincolm]

Why isn't 1 for 1 a bad trade? Why are you pissed off? It's not like you were pushing for a Slimer lynch anyways. The only person pushing for his lynch was Wisdom.

It isn't bad trade, it isn't great trade also. Of course I pissed off, the most active and give best read in my opinion is Wisdom, and now, he isn't here. Because Slimer's wagon was not going anywhere. I already explain why he is scum, and the only agree only Wisdom. I also hate vote in this setup.

[Lincolm]

If you mean in here, yes, it is. I can't post more content for now.

[Lincolm]

I just can't accept the truth I think...

Well, better keep going, I will begin post after have a dinner.

[Lincolm]

For now, I will observe first. I just can't handle my emotion every time I come to this thread. Please be patient.

[Lincolm]

Could be. I already push Slimer, no one noticed it.

[Lincolm]

I guess you right. I just give my analyze then. Sorry if I'm being jerk here.

[Lincolm]

This was apart of our plan anyway.

Okay, there is 3 people who don't want to lynch Wisdom. 4 wanted to do it. According to Slimer, Wisdom's lynch is what scum wanted.Read above.

For now, I will not look Malakittens and Cheery Dog. I don't think that 4 towns going to lynch Wisdom with all that vague reasoning. There at least 1 another mafia who push Wisdom lynch. Maybe 2 also. You might assume the scum back off with Wisdom lynch also, but I don't think that scum can predict 4 town going to lynch Wisdom, they must be clairvoyant if yes.

Yes, you and wisdom are both newbies too although wisdom seems to have a better grasp on the game than either you or slimer. This isn't really relevant though.

No, it is relevant. You think Slimer is newbie. In my eyes, you protected Slimer because he is newbie, but you don't think about that in Wisdom and me. Why?

Wisdom's logic is pretty horrible, but I can't tell the difference between Wisdomscum bad logic and Wisdomtown bad logic.

Tell me why his logic is horrible.

No, it tellis us that it was a part of your plan for you to "use" it.

Tell me why it is Cheery's plan. Why not someone else?

Most players besides Lincolm were okay with that hammer plan because it was on the benefit of town rather than scum because town could control the way the hammer goes down.

Maybe they want to lynch Wisdom because the most aware with the plan is me and Wisdom.

I think Kmd is probably town as his actions re: the hammer don't make sense as scum.

You thought Cheery's fake hammer maybe scum wanted to get towncreed, but in here you don't think Kmd might be bluffing? Why?

(Huntress is town.)

Why Huntress is town?

@ALL :

I want all of you give your thought about this (Cheery already said it):

This was apart of our plan anyway.

[Lincolm]

I will consider that.

I need you to answer this. This is scum slip. Give me your thought about this.

This was apart of our plan anyway.

[Lincolm]

I know that also. But I think about the third.

"Our plan" is scums plan.

For the first condition, no one willing Slimer became hammer except Wisdom. So, it is apart of the plan. But, Slimer was bluffing. So, it is apart of his plan also, not Wisdom plan. I'm not sure that "Our" is "Town" because he is scum.

For the second condition, he was bluffing. It wasn't his plan for killing each other. Not "Wisdom and Slimer"'s plan.

Therefor, I get conclusion "Our" is scums. I don't think that is scum bait, because also seeing the context and the time he posted, he isn't crafting it. 11 minutes only (if he lucky there 1 scum online can help about it) and the talk began 40 minutes ago before hammer.

If you see flaw, I very appreciate it. (I already said before, I like to see minor details until I changed it)

[Lincolm]

By the way, by PoE, I leave Kmd and Blueberry as scums. Don't know which one I should vote.

I wish I'm doublevoter.

Vote : Kmd

[Lincolm]

Our plan because it WAS the deal with between Slimer and Wisdom at the time.

It means it is part of their plan, not apart of the their plan. Do I misinterpret here?

Just assume here. I assume Slimer is the weakest scum, because I see other people play better. In other side, there was a long way before deadline, meaning everything can change. So, I don't think scum want to hammer that fast also. Meaning, it is apart to scums plan.

P-Edit : IT IS APART! SEE APART! NOT PART!

I WANT BLUEBERRY HAMMER YOU! ENOUGH FOR ME!

[Lincolm]

If everyone agree next lynch or hammer is KMD, I'm fine, because he is my top scumread.

[Lincolm]

@Kmd : Do you ever feel that you're being manipulated?

[Lincolm]

Because his logic is always somewhat horrible.

Because I don't see why his logic horrible. Tell me more.

Lincolm, see above. You, wisdom, and slimer are all newbie. Hell, to me, the whole playerlist except wicked is pretty new. And I'm ignoring slimer's comment about "part of the plan". It doesn't mean anything except "lol this will fuck with them". No scum gives away info intentionally when they die.

Then you didn't say in the early days, "nah, you are newbie, that's why your logic wrong" to Wisdom and me? You just said "I want wisdom to hammer lincolm" in #86. But in post #233 you defend Slimer with, "slimer is still a newbie". Tell me why.

Note that you were tolerable with Slimer, but not with us.

Lol.

Tell me what the funny thing with the flip of Wisdom and Slimer.

[Lincolm]

If you really scum, you deserve to win because of you.

Unvote

I will re-read tomorrow.

[Lincolm]

I just found that maybe scums try to accuse me and Kmd each other. I like to see from different view.

[Lincolm]

Dammit. Blueberry has to be town. No scum would want to be at L-1 with someone itching to hammer.

You try to confirm your friend as town huh?

[Lincolm]

You will see my dead after this and you will sorry for that.

If you're town, I already said the mafias wanted us to do this. That's why I try to see from different view, but you don't want to see from that.

Question to Kmd, before day 3, what if Blueberry isn't town? I like you give us better read in different scenario.

[Lincolm]

Another question to Kmd, who you like to be my hammer if you killed tonight?

[Lincolm]

Kmd...

Please post before our mod...

[Lincolm]

I hate you Implosion...

Vote : Lincolm

Whatever. Try to find the scum as my hammer. The right thing is also to get rid the scummiest town, so please, choose the right hammer.

[Lincolm]

My different view is right. From that I found KMD and BlueBerry as town, but my original view said they were not. I just feel guilty for this because I not tell this earlier.

Originally I have KMD as scum because he try to setup the lynchee and hammeree as fast as he can without no one opinion. Also because he somehow like to protect Slimer. But my different view said he trapped by Slimer with his newbie card and he is too hasty. Also Blueberry because that L-1, but my different view that scum will not make that scummy reason. I guess I'm wrong totally at first.

Well, my original view found the scum is most likely KMD and BlueBerry but it is wrong, but the third is Huntress and the fourth is Wicked. The original read, the scum most likely try to lynch Wisdom. so, Mala and Cheery is town from this view. They aren't work together also, impossible only Slimer who push Wisdom's wagon.

I already said that somehow we are too focus on Wisdom, KMD, and me (because we accuse each other). So, I think mafias try to relieve us 1 by 1 if we all town. In my different view, I only found 1 scum, it is Wicked. This is only WIFOM. The most likely know the shortage of the plan is scum, not town, because they try to use that shortage as their benefits. Meaning that I'm scum also (hypocritical if I'm not say this). Wicked post it in #103.

If you keep me alive, it will be blatantly mistake because the lynchee should be townie and the hammeree should be scum and next is another LyLo. I will say in this setup, LyLo is better than MyLo because in this setup,

MyLo have more choices than in LyLo

(well, we can no lynch, right? meaning MyLo = LyLo) (That's why I said if we lynched Slimer before, and we lynch another scum, we have another mislynch). Whatever happen next, I like to be the lynchee for now because I know my role. I know that all of the scums and the town will not quicklynch, so whatever happen, try to find the scums and they should hammer me is the correct move.

If I'm not get lynched this day, I get feel that my suspicion is going to grower in the end game.

So, we do this like original LyLo. I agree, but the lynchee is me whatever you say. Like original one, lynch 1 scum, at night 1 townie die, just assume that townie is me.

[Lincolm]

Yes, I know that we can't no lynch. Sorry if my words is wrong. It should be (*we

can't

no lynch right? meaning MyLo = LyLo).

Well, 50% is from my view. All of you is 66% (if you town). We already have the lynchee, and you just need to pick the scum as hammeree. I just can said, just do it for now. What happen next, I don't know, maybe something interesting happen. So, let's pick the hammer. I already said my scumread for now is Wicked.

[Lincolm]

I'd rather have two actual suspects to be lynchee and hammeree because if ones wrong we still have a chance. As such I currently think Huntress/Wicked should be the pair.

Meaning you still suspect Mala? Well, I can't say anything about it. But, if we have MyLo for this setup, we have more choices to pick, meaning possibility (if random) to hit scum is decrease.

Think of yourself as a treestump.

If I'm Innocent Child who confirmed town, I'm fine with that, but I'm not. Meaning my suspicion can grower when the game keep go on.

If we just lynch scum we narrow the field without losing town. If we follow the plan we take 1 for 1 out. I rather not lose the extra townie; 1:3 is better than 1:2.

I really don't know why you prefer MyLo rather than LyLo in this setup. If we have extra townie, the extra townie isn't confirmed as town because no one know his role (except scums) until killed. So, the scums can mislynch with better chance. (I prefer MyLo than LyLo if I was scum, so I really prefer this not happen)

Just a reminder (Yes, I prefer see my enemies PM roles, not mine):

You win when there are at least as many mafia members alive as there are town members.

[Lincolm]

Sorry, I got busy for my college. Will post after have a sleep.

[Lincolm]

I'm very sorry for my inactivity, I got busy last week. Read coming.

[Lincolm]

I found this exchange odd. Lincolm's reply doesn't follow. Why would he deduce that Cheery still suspected Mala from Cheery's statement that Wicked and I should be the pair. It's a cognitive dissonance that points at discussion outside the thread which would suggest they are scumpartners.

If I'm not wrong, Cheery said Mala isn't scum before.

What made you eliminate the rest of us here to leave Kmd and BB?

In that condition, I believed Cheery was town (the highest), Mala was town, Wicked was town, about you, Mala said you was town (the lowest) (okay that's stupid reason). You ask about the PoE, right? About my scumread, yes, it was in both of them also.

Still I don't find why Wicked is scum except that WIFOM. I don't think that is relevant read.

I really believe in this setup VCA really important because everyone willing to vote but not hammer, especially scums. But my VCA doesn't mean only when lynched happen but also the process how it come.

Or, maybe not.

Hold up.

Vote: Lincolm

Maybe that will give you some incentive.

You know that I'm willing to be lynchee, right? You should did it earlier.

[Lincolm]

I'm quiet hard finding something at few persons. Thought that my read about my townreads, which I don't think needed to be told, are grow stronger. I'm pretty sure that Cheery and you are town. If I'm right, I'm fine become hammer Huntress or Wicked or one of them hammer me.

I always lack of content when I'm stalling too much. I have no questions also. So, any question for me?

[Lincolm]

My read almost likely based on reaction and WIFOM (even it isn't relevant, I consider use it). Almost likely I get it when actively observe. It is hard to get it in few people.

The interaction to get read also can to get shocks over everyone read. I'm quiet stubborn, so sometimes I prefer to not. (in here, I not do it)

The only I get felling about Huntress/Wicked scum team only because they are voting Cheery, which it isn't relevant read also, because everyone as town can thought about that. So no, still no scumread.

Do you know that meta isn't relevant read also? Everyone can evolve, so I only use meta as reference, not as read. Try to consider your read. (Yes, I try to question your read)

[Lincolm]

Sorry, my business already over (thought I should wrote that I was in Limited Access), I can take a look seriously at mafia again now. rereading

[Lincolm]

So, hello there. Sorry, I'm not finding something in the re-read of day 1 and day 2. I just find how stupid I am in previous days.

But, I can give analyze what happen in today, still, 23 hours can change everything like I said before. Seeing this is LyLo, I'm quiet paranoid with Cheery + Huntress for this day.

I still see Cheery as my highest townread. So the possibility the scumteam in my view is :

Huntress/Mala

-> Mala doing his reaction test in his partner. This have less chance, but still can happened.

Huntress/Wicked

-> I always thought about this, but I think I'm wrong. I don't think that the scum will hardcore bussing like this one that make 3P so easily. So, I strike this.

Wicked/Mala

-> The last, but the strongest. I never thought about this before and I don't see about this pairing.

Seeing today, I see that Huntress doing this all day with Wicked to push Cheery, but that bussing almost likely hard to believe that they are together. So, almost likely Huntress is alone that maybe she is town.

Though if Huntress is scum, she still can unvote so Wicked going to be killed, but Wicked don't realize this, even he posted (in day 1) that scum could do this? Seems opportunistic one that Huntress will not unvote.

Also, if Huntress is scum that unvote, almost likely Mala is her partner because that unvote on me. Though I don't know Mala's reason to unvote me.

I still have Mala as town though, even my pair have Mala in both. I'm quiet afraid that maybe my read about her is wrong, maybe also all of my read. Thought that Cheery have point to make this 4P (though 3P risky in 5P), I guess 4P better. Also, as my read come, I have Wicked in my scumread. So,

Unvote Vote : Wicked

[Lincolm]

@Lincolm, now that you've unvoted yourself, even if Huntress unvoted me, she'd still be dead at deadline. (as my vote on her is now the oldest active)

I'm quiet wary about this, but you have the point. I forget about your vote. Only Huntress can change everything. Still, I don't suspect Huntress a lot except by PoE of my townread.

In other side, I don't find why Huntress - Cheery is the scumteam like what Wicked suspected, most likely not happen, thought this is 5P LyLo, I don't even think scums are going to vote each other in the beginning of the day of LyLo. Seeing Slimer's interaction with everyone it makes my read in Cheery stronger. (My role is also the clue why I have townread for Cheery, for someone who thought that I was bussing to Slimer is very false logic.)

Thought about that, the pairing Huntress - Cheery something what Wicked want for (I said it in day 1 about the pairing). If Wicked is scum, this is over already. I already said my analyze about Mala. I'm pretty afraid to vote in my townread because I never done it before.

Huntress won't believe me any way. Thought I don't know why Huntress want to be the last voter. I always thought the determinant voter always be town. I just can Huntress does her best for the rest now. I hope she can online.

[Lincolm]

Very sorry about yesterday, I can't online when the deadline happen even I tried. But I really don't want Cheery to be killed.

Thought I found something interesting.

I need everyone to posting first.

[Lincolm]

About that, I still like I became the lynchee though in that time before re-read. Thought after Cheery explain about how 4P goes, maybe I was false, so I changed my vote. Still, I don't expect Cheery to changed his vote. That's quiet a surprise.

In that condition, Huntress could not be saved (when Cheery still voted in her). Thought I had nullread for her and townread for Cheery, I was quiet paranoid with that pairing. Well... My last vote quiet a bit manipulate... If Huntress was town, I wanted her to changed his vote to Wicked so Cheery didn't get killed that day.

About Huntress - Wicked pairing, that's quiet insane bussing. It's hard to believe that they are scum together. In 5P condition, I don't think that scum will make a pairing in the scum in it. Though it is better to attempt to follow the condition of town. (Well, in my view (because I know my role), Huntress did it)

About what I find, I want to see Wicked's next post first. Because this is based on you two, maybe both of you don't find it. It is very interesting one.

In other side, I suspect you more than Wicked. Thought that you unvoted me that make me thought, when Huntress unvoted Cheery before deadline, I was going to get killed with you, that maybe you wanted to make scum win in there, so when Huntress unvote, I got killed because of my selfvote. This is also my reason change my vote, though I forgot about Cheery's vote was the next old one.

Also that vote when deadline, maybe you already know about that vote wasn't going to be counted (because when I was scum with daytalk in other game, I always asked in quicktopic a lot to mod, though I compared it with myself). What do you think? I want to know why you vote Cheery in the last time before deadline also.

[Lincolm]

Sorry. I already made the post yesterday, though it doesn't posted after that. (My country internet sucks )

Hey Mala, would you like to vote Wicked? I like to hammer. (I'm pretty lazy to write that again because it is long post lol)

[Lincolm]

I'm quiet stubborn. I'm pretty sure you're town. No change. I'm pretty lazy to write that I write yesterday again, I'm going to put this over.

As I can said, the interesting case I said before -> Huntress didn't unvoted in day 3

if

Wicked is town. There you go. Analyze it. I'm very lazy to write all scenarios again.

So, I'm sure to hammer.

[Lincolm]

Well, the last read about you in this day only reaction test, though the day 3 was serious.

Vote : Wicked

[Lincolm]

Good job Mala! High five!

[Lincolm]

The mafia QT really nice. Thanks.

As I can say, this game maybe quiet townsided, but as I take a look as town, this game more puzzle when mafia can manipulate the plan, get trust as town, and eliminate all mafias obstacle. As town, I'm quiet wary with it, well, that how I did.