Mewbie 1493~ Game Ovah

[Mr Glidder]

doh hoh hoh hoh hey peoples.

Your predecessors were extremely scummy. Is there anything you want to say about that?

I know my predecessors are town and I can't defend their actions/reads/etc, so why should I care about what they did?

This is the post of reads I was working on during night (I read the whole game but just skimmed some of the larger walls).

Josh_B: I honestly have no idea what to make of this guy. Super-early VT claims tend to be legit from my experience, but his argument with (mainly) mafioso just seems all sorts of convoluted. In the end I have him on the town side of null, but it's shaky.
Not_Mafia: Predecessor was lurk-null, N_M himself has nothing really alignment-indicative as far as I can tell. Even his posts today, not 100% sure what to make of it.
imkingdavid: Getting a town vibe from this guy. He seems to match a decent amount of my thoughts on various things.
goodmorning: Eh town-null. Seems to be saying all the right things but something in my head is tweaking.
saturnine: Also town. Nothing in that ISO looks like scum to me.
I Love Fairies: I kinda like this slot for scum. I see needless cruft and a decent amount of somewhat distracting "I'm bad mmmkay". I had a gut feeling of "something's not right here"; GM then said today "It's all been fluff, theory, WIFOM", which fits right in.

Looking back I have only one "scum read". Ergh. Let's say I'm caught between N_M and GM for a #2.

I don't currently feel like commenting on the nightkill, it's just WIFOM city and won't help anyone.

[Mr Glidder]

One of my major points against you was my thought that you were a TPR.

o_O

I'm currently thinking you're scum who is looking a bit too hard for PR tells.

Vote: ILF

[Mr Glidder]

Can't imagine how any more nightkill discussion would help us. It's just full of distraction, and I think Josh_B is becoming less towny for bringing it back up.

My argument against Goodmorning was that I thought Goodmorning was doing an obvious softclaim to attempt to build towncred and to prevent anyone from arguing against her.

That's not really how softclaims work. Obvious softclaims shouldn't be providing much towncred at all.

Mod: Can you poke the quote/spoiler code in 400? Something there's making the rest of the page look funny.

[Mr Glidder]

410 is yet another case where IKD's opinion matches mine. That said the "I'm going to go ahead and trust myself." in 408 strikes me as town. Hmmmm.

Also following up on my initial reads GM is tweaking me less now because of the recent exchanges. I think she's town. Unless she's scum with ILF and is coaching, but I don't think that's likely.

[Mr Glidder]

I dunno if it's town. Looks kinda like flailing to me, which I think is null.

@Mr Glidder: Could you rephrase that sentence with the coaching comment? I'm not entirely sure I understand what you mean.

In the case where both you and GM are scum (which I don't think is the case), one could call some of GM's actions coaching (that is, the practice of underhandedly giving advice to a scumbuddy).

PEDIT: N_M, care to elaborate?

[Mr Glidder]

I say something completely innocuous or I defend someone and suddenly a hurricane of drama ensues.

This is indeed how the game works.

I wouldn't bother about NotMaf, he seems to be the type who's pretty good at deflecting suspicion, unless I miss my guess.

I don't understand this either. If someone's "good at deflecting suspicion", shouldn't we be piling more onto him?

[Mr Glidder]

Holy moly.

Let me get this straight. Because of IKD's 17, wherein he stated that the Mafia's chances of killing a PR had been increased from "1/7" to "1/6", you believe that he has a PR in setup 1 (JK only) or B (Cop only) due to ommiting the possibility of "2/7" and "2/6". Because you suspect this, you outright demand him to claim (for lack of a better term).

That is so anti-town I don't even think I can say it's scummy, because even scum should know to not be this blatant about rolefishing. Of course that's WIFOM so argh.

AND no matter what PR's there are or aren't, I'd rather keep them a secret than out them before they have a chance to produce any information.

The fact that you made that post kinda says otherwise.

[Mr Glidder]

"Too scummy to be Scum" is fallacious.

I'm still hung up on his gamestart VT claim, to be honest. I can't convince myself that it came from scum and that's really stilting my attempts to read him.

[Mr Glidder]

Screw it I can't let one post shape my whole read on someone.

Vote: Josh_B

Are most early-game VT claims town? Yes. How are the rest of his posts? Convoluted water-muddying tirades. It's too much to ignore.

[Mr Glidder]

But damn, I don't know if I'd feel comfortable lynching him. At least, not today.

Then when? I doubt he'll ever be nightkilled (either because he's scum, or because scum want to keep his behaviour around).

I also need to look at Glidder because I realized I somehow don't know my read on him.

Spoiler: humour

Your read on me is town.

Less funnily, you last mentioned me in 394 and said I was leaning scum for *reasons*.

[Mr Glidder]

Hello people where u @.

How about this: GM provided her case against me and provides a non-NKA reads list and then I'll do the same, only with my case against her.

I think it's only fair.

Your reluctance to (kind of) take initiative and go first is noted.

PEDIT:

I think the entire point here is that I've made my opinions pretty clear thus far.

I went and skimmed your ISO, and all the recent stuff is focused on one or two players. A refresher would be nice.

[Mr Glidder]

For some purpose, I presume?

To answer your question though: Right now I want to lynch either you (because of your scads of fuddleduddle murkydurpy posts) or ILF (because of lack of content and the recent "you go first" post). IKD and GM I see as town because their posts mostly match my opinions. N_M is still pretty null to me, call that a third option. saturnine started town but has gotten a bit weaker into nulltown territory due to what I perceive as a dropoff in post quality. So I guess my current preferred lynch order is something like

1. Josh_B
2. ILF
3. Not_Mafia

with the other three being "won't vote for unless something changes".

[Mr Glidder]

Hm.

I'm fairly sure that one of Josh_B and ILF is scum. But given the level of defense going on, I'm not so sure they are both scum.

[Mr Glidder]

I see that instead of trying to fix the problem (of people calling you out for not posting reads), you're continuing to prolong it via snark and buckpassing.

We can only deal with so many people at once. If you're not giving us a reason to finish hounding you and move elsewhere, well then we won't.

[Mr Glidder]

Can we decide on a wagon here?

We still have a week. We don't have to use it, but we don't have to cut it off.

There's only a small minority that hasn't expressed interest in lynching the CaptianMinitaur/Mithrander/Glidder slot.

People that wanted X lynched yesterday might have changed their mind this day. Saying "Well, everyone wanted X lynched at some point, so let's lynch X" is not always sensible.

Anyways, I see nothing at all wrong with ILF's 477. I'm not totally sold how town it is, but it is indeed town in some way. So now Not_Mafia is my second lynch preference. I've decided that I'm not buying his explanation in 447, and that he was rolefishing, which was covered up pretty poorly in 379.

[Mr Glidder]

Saying "he is pushing for X discussion" (as 490) is not equivalent to "I am bringing up X" (as claimed in 494).

I am okay with someone hammering. I don't think we'll be getting much more useful discussion out of today.

[Mr Glidder]

keep oscillating between josh and notmaf

help

Vote N_M. Then ILF gets to pick which one to hammer.

(that was just for humour, yeah they're #1 and #2 on my lynch preference as previously stated, but I think allowing someone a choice between hammering two wagons is a bad idea)

I think two out of the three people voting for me are Mafia.

Okay, who exactly?

[Mr Glidder]

I'm reading the words in Josh_B's post and I can't understand what his point is. Aside from "ILF and saturnine are town because they didn't hammer", that is.

[Mr Glidder]

519 is the flailiest flail that ever flailed.

Okay that's hyperbole, but it's not exactly untrue. So let me get this straight. If I paraphrase that, I get something like:

I'll remove my vote from my counterwagon that I think is on scum. Instead, I'll sheep whoever didn't hammer, because I think that's a town action, regardless of the players' actual alignment.

Correct me if I'm wrong, unless you get hammered first.

[Mr Glidder]

I think saturnine has kinda disappeared again. It's a bit disconcerting to see a D1 townread kinda fading in and out of D2 presence.

Josh_B's last three posts are just a total change of tone that I read as caught scum flippancy.

[Mr Glidder]

...we're still here?

If Josh does flip scum I'll be looking at the reactions surrounding that VT claim, I recall a wagon being formed very quickly for it

That might be useful if he's town too, I'll be looking at it regardless of his flip.

[Mr Glidder]

If ILF's post is sincere then that makes Mr. G/Saturnine the scumteam

I know you said in 547 that you'd "take a serious serious second look at Saturnine", but this still looks kinda out of nowhere. You'd barely mentioned saturnine up to this point (as scum or otherwise) and now you're (conditionally) calling him on the team?

Also you need to explain what you meant by the "this" in "How would this have been allowed to happen".

For the record though, my townread on saturnine is also weakening, given how he's disappeared near the end of both days so far. I wouldn't lynch him/his slot today though. I want to lynch ILF or Not_Mafia, and maybe even both (I'm not convinced they're scum together, but I'm pretty sure at least one of them is, and I need to work out which one I'm more sure of).

[Mr Glidder]

Hm.

Josh_B

's D1 wagon: saturnine on (1),

my slot

on (2),

mafioso

on (3),

sns

on (4),

mafioso

off (3), saturnine off (2),

mafioso

on (3),

sns

off (2),

my slot

off (1),

mafioso

off (0).

mafioso

and

sns

died.

Josh_B

's D2 wagon:

me

on (1), N_M on (2), GM on (3), GM off (2),

IKD

on (3), GM hammer (4).

IKD

died.

Aside from my slot (which had the three votes/unvotes each made by different players), the two wagons have absolutely nothing in common. That's really strange. I see two possibilities:

1. saturnine is town. Scum watched Josh_B pile up the votes and wanted the wagon to remain all-town in case it went through. They then tried to push through the mislynch D2.
2. saturnine is scum, with the partner trying to be on a different wagon. This partner then got on the wagon D2 while saturnine stayed off.

Both these possibilities imply that one of N_M and GM are scum. Possibly even both, but having both push the D2 lynch through feels like overkill to me. As stated before, I think N_M is the scum in that pair.

However, it's also worth nothing that ILF's slot is the only one to have never voted Josh_B. Only townie to correctly believe J_B is town throughout both days? Or scum who wants to stay off that wagon while their buddy pushes it? Given the funny pair of wagons above, I think it's the latter; as a result I believe possibility #1 from above.

When I put all this together, I end up with something like this:

• conftown
• goodmorning
• saturnine
• I Love Fairires
• Not_Mafia
• confscum

Summary:

• I think the D1 J_B wagon is all town.
• I think the D2 J_B wagon has exactly 1 scum.
• Let's lynch N_M.

[Mr Glidder]

That post makes me think it's saturnine after all, though a bus is possible.

Who's bussing who then?

@Mr Glidder: I think you'll find that I haven't been on either lynch so far. In fact, I'm not sure I've ever had a vote on SNS or Josh. It's weird to think that I'm "scummy" because my vote record isn't tarnished by townie blood.

By itself, not being on either mislynch is pretty much null. But as I said, the two Josh_B wagons are so weirdly separate from each other that, combined with him being lynchbait for most of the game, you being the only to not ever vote for him just stands out. The SNS wagon okay I might have to look over again.

[Mr Glidder]

Okay so the SNS wagon:

IKD

on (1),

IKD

off (0), saturnine on (1), GM on (2),

J_B

on (3),

J_B

off (2), saturnine off (1) (puts lurktastic N_M slot to L-1, then N_M replaces in), N_M on (2),

IKD

on (3),

mafioso

on (4),

SNS

self-hammer (5).

Josh_B

's D1 wagon: saturnine on (1),

my slot

on (2),

mafioso

on (3),

sns

on (4),

mafioso

off (3), saturnine off (2),

mafioso

on (3),

sns

off (2),

my slot

off (1),

mafioso

off (0).

Josh_B

's D2 wagon:

me

on (1), N_M on (2), GM on (3), GM off (2),

IKD

on (3), GM hammer (4).

N_M being scum fits into this; he's the second vote on the final lynch of one of his two counterwagons (the other being my slot), the rest of which is town and GM. GM's SNS vote was town (once explained). saturnine's vote on SNS, which started the wagon aside from IKD's single vote, looks null to me, as does how he left the wagon for N_M's slot. So looking at this wagon, I'm more convinced that N_M is scum, and my opinion of others doesn't really change.

[Mr Glidder]

Mr G is confScum

There's a confscum? How come we're not lynching them then?

We're waiting for you, and also he keeps talking which is handy. I don't think he knows he's confScum yet.

I don't think ILF picked it up either.

I was going to continue ignoring this hyperbolic assertion, but since you appear to be serious, please select one of the following:

1. By "confScum", I mean "They have scumslipped in [this post]".
2. By "confScum", I mean "I have [an incriminating result] on them".
3. By "confScum", I mean "I have [benign results on others] so PoE".
4. By "confScum", I mean "I'm that sure of my read on them".
5. By "confScum", I mean "I'm that sure of my read on that slot".

[Mr Glidder]

V/LA for somewhere between 24-48 hours, don't know how long

I like how everyone just totally ignored my question though.

[Mr Glidder]

3ds post

so you claim a cop/track guilty on me then

of course that means youre confscum to me, because im actaully tracker

tracked n-m n1 to noone, picked him cuz of the slots lurckness plus less-than-stellar d1 play by the replacement, but it didnt work out, note that ive basically written this off as his-buddy-did-it-that-night because of how scummy he looks to me

tracked ikd n2 to gm, picked him cuz despite how i saw him as town for most of d2, he was mostly sitting in teh background in a way that felt suspicsous

i didnt claim the instant lylo started because my results are kinda crappy and i wanted to see if scum would try and fake, which happend clearly

so im apparently wrong about n-m or ilf, probs ilf because as said before n-m is more scummy, plus the gm-ilf arguments would be pretty strong distancing

imma probs vote gm once im not 3ds posting, shes scum so not worried about da quikhammer

[Mr Glidder]

still 3dsing so no quotes

re 604, yeah sure, two letters of one word, one of the next, and last two of the third, i can bold random letters in my posts too, i dont have a real crumb because well i wasnt playing from the start, once im on a real computer ill be checking your previous ic gamestarts to see if thats a stock phrase in them

re 609, the two claims here changed my opinion of ilf from 2nd-scum to probs-actually-town, n-m from 1st-scum to 2nd-scum, and gm from town to 1st-scum, i didnt mention widsom in my claim post because my townread on that slot didnt change based on the claims, so there was nothing to mention

but okay to sum up where i stand right now, gm and n-m is the scumteam, ilf is kinda exonerated by gms fakeclaim and so is town to me, saturnine/wisdom is town and i dont see how it could be otherwise

[Mr Glidder]

I should probably learn to at least use caps in 3DS posts because those things look terrible. But now that I can,

Vote: goodmorning

[Mr Glidder]

fine

Vote: Mr Glidder

it's not worth my time to pretend i can turn this around any more than i already did (i.e. survive past D2)

[Mr Glidder]

I figured I was donezo the moment I came in and saw what my predecessor(s) left for me. I didn't expect to survive D2 and had to hope that saturnine would continue to be glossed over.

Since Wisdom never posted in it and everyone else is vanished, I figure I can safely post the scum QT.