Mini 1576 - Timeshift Mafia II - Endgame

[singersigner]

Hiiiii. Um, I'll ISO a few things but would appreciate cliff notes from anyone and everyone. Thanks!

[singersigner]

Hiiiii. Um, I'll ISO a few things but would appreciate cliff notes from anyone and everyone. Thanks!

The town is a ghost town because we got two scum but are lost on other scum(s)

So new input is welcome

Hmm, I'm not very good at ~original~ content, but once I get around to reading up (thanks, Tammy!), I might be able to engage in conversation that helps. It might not be til later, but I promise I'll keep reading from the last couple of pages on, so I won't get further behind.

I'm interested in these confirmed town claims because that seems pretty relevant to me.

[singersigner]

Lol, Bert, you've had experience with me replacing into games. Do you think I would make the slot less dead?

[singersigner]

Ah, fair enough. She'll be one of my ISOs (along with the mod and flipped scum as per usual). At the very least, I wouldn't replace in if I didn't care. It just takes me a while to get into it because I rely a lot on my in real time interactions instead of ghost interactions that I have to make assumptions about or revisit after discussions have ended.

In any case, I'm pretty town which is awesome because I feel like every time I volunteer to play or replace in lately it's like playing Russian roulette. I wasn't very town in my last couple of town games so I'm really trying to rectify that. >_>

Also, there's not a generic town role PM that states vanilla (which is think is dangerous for breaking the game but whatever) so I assume everyone who doesn't have an explicit PR is vanilla, then?

[singersigner]

Alright well I'm pretty town

[singersigner]

Anf those cats are fucking adorable.

I have four.

But they are no longer adorable kittnes

They are adorable cats

That's a cute gif.

[singersigner]

Inflatable Pie putting BBmolla in the "nullscummy" pile makes me lean molla scum because that's just how scum tend to categorize their scum buddies.
Bane is probably town from Pie's #274 because he's putting a leak out there "not sure if town or scum" letting someone else interpret it for him as scummy.
Bulb is probably town from Messiah's #419 because he's targetting him pretty heavily, and coupled with my confbiased opinion of molla being scum, seems like he's challenging his meta read on a scum buddy.
PeregrineV is probably pretty town for questioning who suggested that the town wincon be posted publicly, as that was probably done by scum.

Ah, that's about all I have the energy for right now. Got about halfway through the ISOs of the two scum and the mod so we'll see where that goes when I get it done.

[singersigner]

I think Bert is town.

Based off of claims I would say that the JK one is legit because why claim a potentially provable role that reflects what a mafia roleblocker might claim?

Not sure that the town would necessarily be stacked with the claims we have, though, since based off of the last setup, replace rolecop with doctor and it's basically the same? The most likely of them all being fake seems like the one-shot BP giver, but I assume that could be provable anyway? Depends on what the SK/mafia abilities are, doesn't seem thaaaaat unlikely?

[singersigner]

Wait, didn't Bert just claim that Tammy would've been dead by now of he was scum...and it's basically confirmed that she has used a BP mostly likely swallowing the mafia shot? So...that would implicate that mafia tried shooting her early already and maybe just didn't bother revisiting until they knew why?

[singersigner]

I'm saying that Bert's defense of killing Tammy by now doesn't hold as much weight as I thought since Tammy was protected

[singersigner]

Did you even day that? Now I feel like I'm mixing the games up...

[singersigner]

Oh shit, I didn't even realize I was voting someone.

unvote

[singersigner]

Mmmkay so I like voting...

vote: bbmolla

Alternatively I could vote Peregrine but that's mostly PoE at this point so I'd rather go a direction in which I actually have a read.

[singersigner]

Ugh, replacements. Ok so then yeah my original town read holds.

[singersigner]

Oh! Then my Bane townread translates into a Tammy townread wooooo.

[singersigner]

Fun fact: I've actually not been wrong with my first in the last however many games I've been playing since I started playing again.

[singersigner]

first vote*

Also, I can really only think of four games that applies to off the top of my head, but I maintain that to be true.

[singersigner]

Bad bus? Dunno, haven't really read the second half yet but figured I'd vote just in case cuz loldeadline? Like I said, I'd switch to PV if I need to.

Also, I didn't lurk that much...

[singersigner]

And certainly not on purpose

[singersigner]

I dunno if that's really a tell, though, since I was just in a game with two neighborizors, one town and one scum. The obvious thought process was that only one of us had to be town, and in hindsight, that theory makes sense that the other neighborizor was afraid to push me very hard because he could've been confirmed as scum. Buuut I was equally as hesitant because on the off chance that I was trying to outguess the mod, I was worried that he'd flip town and then I'd automatically be lynched by default, causing two mislynches.

[singersigner]

It'd actually be against your wincon to be voting yourself as mafia or SK so...there's that. Not modkill worthy unless it was the hammer but still. Not awesome as either alignment when we're talking about mylo/lylo situations approaching.

I also don't know how anyone would arrive at the conclusion that if AK flipped town and there are two kills tonight that Bulb would be confirmed town...

[singersigner]

Selfvoting as scum isn't against your wincon unless it's the hammer and your buddies are dead, it's an ATE-based gambit~

I literally just said that. And since we're assuming one mafia left and one SK, if someone has quick hammered it would've absolutely been against his wincon. Shitty gambit and I hope I never have to play with someone who's willing to put a team wincon on the line like that.

That being said, I still don't know what the correlation between AKtown=Bulbtown is...

[singersigner]

I'm so tempted to vote PereV you have no idea

Based off of claims I would say that the JK one is legit because why claim a potentially provable role that reflects what a mafia roleblocker might claim?

A 2-shot mafia roleblocker already flipped

That was my point. Jailkeeper is more or less a confirmable roll. It wouldn't make sense to claim something reflecting a partner's roll that would "confirm" the JK.

[singersigner]

Do you have any questions, molla?

[singersigner]

Also, has anyone else played with singer? I rarely have but I didn't get the impression she was a self-town declarer especially for no reason. Does anyone know if that is her style?

Not in a long while, so not even going to try anything meta related.

Um, don't really do it in forum games I guess. I had a habit of doing it in f2f mafia because I was so bad at scum that I would be confirmed town based off of how calm I played (see: scummies invitational and the always on talk about cornering me to confirm me as town). We had a hydra for a game called "confirmed town" at one point to spoof that concept with people that got annoyed that I wasn't

actually

confirmed...but pretty confirmed.

I dunno...channeling my inner gamma/Faraday I guess? Makes it less stressful when I have to make hard choices lol

If you didn't get the impression that I do that in general, what does that have to do with discerning my alignment? If it's my "style" or not, should you care if I do it as a certain alignment? Maybe you're having a hard time figuring things out because you aren't really asking good questions?

[singersigner]

Can someone link me to when/where the claims happened? Tammy posted a summary but I want to read the sequencing and actions. I feel like I'm missing that chunk here.

Also, there's no point in lynching someone that will either be confirmed or denied tomorrow. Like...literally no point. There are two people directly linked to confirmable actions tomorrow.

[singersigner]

If we are leaving both Anatole/Bulba alive for confirmation, then I'll drop the Bulba-lynch today.

Singer

, I like how you come in with a positive attitude and asking questions, but would like to see your conclusions so far. ie reads as they stand now.

Molla

- I don't think this is you-scum. I've played scumwith you-scum, and town with you-scum, and this seems you-town. The worse thing against you was Pie's "lynch Molla" WIFOM right before he hung. Why do you think he bothered doing that knowing he would die and flip scum?

Well I've already said I think Tammy and Bert are town. I think molla is scum. Not bothered to question PR claims right now (might change once I read them through). Though I'd be hard pressed to see a BP-giving scum player.

That leaves you.

[singersigner]

are we going to get a lynch in 3 hours 16 minutes or not?

I'd really like to not lynch the claimed JK? Please? Tomorrow will theoretically have the information needed to parse through them.

[singersigner]

pere I'd advise you to claim vig if you are, or you're probably going to get lynched. if you aren't, I don't think there is one. you are the only one that seems to think a vig is more likely

There's a reason why I think that.

Fine.

1-shot vig, shot Messiah's scummy ass night1.

The better play would be maybe to just roll with it until necessary?

I guess I was also under the impression that there was a massclaim, which doesn't seem to be the case.

How do you feel about lynch all liars, PV? Did you not claim VT?

[singersigner]

Lol "there's no way we have all these PRs let's line up lynches for the protective ones even though someone just got caught lying and I'm so quick to believe them now"

[singersigner]

Lol, trying to sluff that off as a policy lynch is pretty weak. This is beyond poor play for a town vig. You had to know what town would've thought by not claiming and if you were really town, you'd have made sure they were working with the correct information.

I'm voting soon.

[singersigner]

Lol, trying to sluff that off as a policy lynch is pretty weak. This is beyond poor play for a town vig. You had to know what town would've thought by not claiming and if you were really town, you'd have made sure they were working with the correct information.

I'm voting soon.

If I shot town, I claim it, so we know the scum kill.
Since I hit scum, I've doing something right, so the claim wasn't necessary.
if your not lynching me because I'm scum but because I lied during massclaim, then your not scumhunting you are policy lynching. Pretty simple.

Congratulations, if you're town, you've successfully eliminated the town's ability to scum hunt in the most efficient way.

To me, saying that claiming wasn't necessary is strictly self-sustaining because at worst, you eat a NK, and at best you very directly help the town. Did you really feel like you were god and needed to stick around to help us find the last scum by being the only one with that much working knowledge of the game? Like, I'm actually going to be more offended than angry if you flip town.

[singersigner]

a lot of my posts are half-frustration from voting and pressuring several people because I thought they might be SK. It was a total waste of time now that I know they couldnt have been an SK.

This. Like. Fuck.

vote: PeregrineV

I can't see this coming from town. I mean, I'm not the greatest PR (as evidenced by my lack of night actions two nights in a row >_>), but I did what I could to make sure the town had as much information as possible. Why did you lie about a PR? Because SK, that's why.

[singersigner]

I don't feel like you understand how bad withholding that vig info is. You if town were prepared to watch us SK hunt until your death???

All of the feels!

[singersigner]

I will fucking policy lynch the next person who votes Peregrine.

I am DEADLY SERIOUS about this.

Lynching Peregrine today is scum's only out to this gamestate.

How do you figure?

[singersigner]

Fuck I can't read all this on my break now

Sorry if I messed up but like yeah if you're not gunna be a team player and knowingly exclude information that's kinda not cool but whatever maybe I can see it as town if I would've assumed differently

[singersigner]

Why Tammy?

[singersigner]

Yeah but like...she apparently can't make a decision? I dunno, with what limited experience I have with her, I'd probably keep her alive as scum. And not worth protecting as town? No offense, but unless it was lylo, probably wouldn't bother.

[singersigner]

Yeah but like...she apparently can't make a decision? I dunno, with what limited experience I have with her, I'd probably keep her alive as scum. And not worth protecting as town? No offense, but unless it was lylo, probably wouldn't bother.

LOL. I might be offended at your digs if you weren't so transparent.

I don't get it. Transparent? I just meant that I've been in your position before because I tend to be pretty useless as the game gets smaller (I'm probably giving myself too much credit since I'm not that useful to begin with ) and I'm under more pressure. I don't see you as a threatening player and having been a non-threatening player myself, I understand why even as confirmed town, scum would probably bank on you making the wrong decision (as I just did in Bert's lylo) than two other non-confirmed players working it out amungst themselves.

In any case, you bring up a good point, why would Bulb switch actions? Also, it wouldn't make sense to jailkeep a claimed protective role anyway because that puts one more person at risk. Especially knowing that no one is sold on the claims, it's very likely that scum would target someone outside of the PRs and bank on town lynching within them.


Also, also, all actions being claimed from last night will happen tonight, though, right?

[singersigner]

Argh, ok, I just meant they weren't meant to be digs. Someone was like "why isn't Tammy dead" and I was like "this is why confirmed town isn't as bad as you might think" like...I'm not very good either and I feel like your indecisiveness mirrors mine in that we're pretty easily persuaded.

But yeah, I feel like I just crapped on your ability to play mafia which I didn't mean to do...

In any case, I'm probably going to finish my ISOs tonight and maybe come up with some useful questions later?

[singersigner]

I don't like lynching singer. Something tells me she not scum.

[singersigner]

Oh uh...ok

[singersigner]

Wait how does that figure? I can't think of any scenario where I'd be scum so I'm curious.

[singersigner]

Molla being jailkept on a night two scum would still be alive does not clear him unless they assumed Pie got jailkept/roleblocked and decided to switch who performed the kill. My assumption as scum would lean towards doc protect?

[singersigner]

So molla...give me some insight. How do you feel about PV? How do you feel about everything? What makes me scum?

[singersigner]

Um, ok. I mean if you want more ask me question give me direction. I have no desire to sift through 100 pages for a crap shoot but I would hope that there'd be more to work with than Tammy's claim post. Yeah at would you like from me, Bert? Apparently I'm only good for town-telling which I'm not even that good at so I'm trying my best here. I've given town reads and been very clear about the two people I would be willing to lynch, though PV less so now.

So. Yeah.

[singersigner]

Why? The mechanic pushes kills forward one night, so there's always a way they can disappear via lynches.

Why would they be able to disappear via lynches? I didn't think that would have any affect on the kill if the person performing the kill was still alive when they sent in the action. Isn't it just delayed?

[singersigner]

P.S. I like you last post A++

[singersigner]

Oooooh. I think I misread that. I thought you meant the person performing the kill, not the person at risk of being night killed. That makes more sense.

[singersigner]

The reason we're still "SK hunting" is because of all of that. We're saying that all of that adds up to us trying to decide if YOU are the SK because you've planted a seed of doubt that you don't necessarily have what's in the town's best interest at heart by allowing them to work with as much information as they could have had.

So yes, your actions very much affected the way we're continuing to look at it. Not admitting that it was a very selfish play as town just makes YOU look bad.

[singersigner]

I'd lynch molla over you but you continue to think your play was perfect or obvious when at LEAST one town is quite disappointed and would've preferred to not be misguided. Regardless of if you were trying to confuse scum or not, you also confused town, who had even less information to work with.

I'm just really annoyed with this whole distraction at this point.

[singersigner]

I'm not really a fan of using that as a default? Especially when we just no lynched yesterday. We're not really any better off since Studio was confirmed town anyway.

Like, I would've rather cleared this up before and something isn't really sitting right about the preference to do it now versus yesterday...

[singersigner]

I dunnooooo

[singersigner]

I just don't have any gut feelings like I did in the other game, and the mechanics are throwing me off so I'm still wrestling with PV's claim. I pretty much only have two strong town reads, one of them is based purely on our last game, I suppose a third now because if AV is town he confirmed Bulb and if he's scum he more or less still confirmed Bulb? So that's cool I guess.

That leaves molla, PV, and AK to figure out who's telling the truth and I'm kind of ambivalent. I'm don't really want to be in the position of making the wrong choice again.

[singersigner]

Ok I'll hammer

[singersigner]

I ammm...still here?

[singersigner]

Iced quad venti nonfat no whip black and white mocha, half the pumps of each.

[singersigner]

Fun fact. I work for Starbucks.

[singersigner]

Basically a combination of the white chocolate mocha and the regular chololate mocha. An iced venti size comes with six pumps of the syrup/flavor, so I would get three of each. This way I wouldn't have to pay the extra $.60 for the other sauce, because I'm substituting from what I'm already paying for.

Unless I'm working...then I get it for free anyway, lol.

[singersigner]

Uh...what? Why?

Also, my store is a new store so we don't have the fizzio machine, yet.
If any of you try the root beer, I'd recommend adding a pump of vanilla...so good! Tastes just like old fashioned root beer.

[singersigner]

Well ok this sucks and is lame so

vote: PeregrineV

Go Starbucks

[singersigner]

Actions?

[singersigner]

I've already checked in and what am I going to do, insist I'm not scum?

No way was molla the night kill option.

Wouldn't Pere have had a kill that goes through, too? So we're talking maybe two missing targets?

[singersigner]

Though, if I were scum, I wouldn't have anything to lose by pushing PereSK so there's that.

I dunno, I guess we have theoretically two mislynches so it'd be cool to be smart about it and lynch the confirmed-ish jailkept target first but *shrug*

[singersigner]

Oh shit, I thought you JKed molla like that action resolved last night, not tonight.

Eh, I guess I'm probably the right lynch to narrow it down then since I'm pretty sure it's not Bert or Tammy's slot.

[singersigner]

And you can confirm molla's spot tomorrow

[singersigner]

Yeah. Whoever is jailkept from now on is confirmed.

Well...kind of. There's still the whole "could be the target" issue, which I'd have a hard time seeing anyone but Tammy being the target, maybe Bert, since he's a general-ish town read.

I think scum would probably go for a confirmed town and wifom the shit out of Bulba to be honest so just because he's not dead doesn't mean it's sketchy yet.

[singersigner]

Well "pseudo" in the sense that you don't know if it protects or roleblocks? I have a hard time assuming one or the other unless it was on someone I'm pretty confident wouldn't be targeted/shot either way.

The thing is, how can Tammy be mafia with a confirmed BP-vest. Was it just that we assumed mafia shot her because there wasn't a kill, or was she told it was used, or what?

[singersigner]

I almost 1v1ed a neighborizer in the last game I was in because I was also a neighborizor and didn't believe that there could be two. The problem is that they kept saying I must be scum, too, but didn't push my lynch very hard because a 1v1 would've left them either probably auto lynched knowing I would flip town, or potentially lynched first.

Problem was, as town, I was also afraid of the possibility of out-guessing the mod and potentially fucking town over by now lynching two town by default.

Sad Days were had by all.

[singersigner]

We're at an even number. Does that mean this day will become a no lynch?

I'd rather be lynched before that happens.

Kind of tired of waiting on Aegor if he's determined to read all 100 pages.

They weren't going for town cred btw.

[singersigner]

Now I really want cookie dough but I'm on a diet

[singersigner]

Nooooope

I'm lost and will probably lose this game for everyone sorry

[singersigner]

vote: singer

[singersigner]

Eeeh, I'm tired of people postulating that I may be scum when it's easier to just ease their minds if we can afford the lynch.

Why do you think it's only ok if I'm scum?

[singersigner]

Singer, is Molla scum still?

Yeah, still pretty scum.

Bulb probably by default if it's not molla.

[singersigner]

Can we please stop pussyfooting around and make a decision. The way I figure, it's me or molla right now, and molla was supposedly jailkept last night so barring some fucked up scum trying to target him, a no kill will almost guarantee it so we might as well just get me out of the picture.

[singersigner]

It was pretty likely in the first place, but when you put it that way, yes.

It's also interesting to note that molla was one of the last people on every wagon except for scum.

[singersigner]

Ah, well, that progressed pretty quickly.

Processing...

[singersigner]

Because I feel like if it's one of the two it's Bulb which I've already stated so yeah uh huh good luck threatening me into making a decision before I'm ready

[singersigner]

I feel like you're trying really hard to convince yourself I'm scum if you're wrong about Anatole but I really can't help you with that other than convince you to lynch me first to avoid this petty threatening nonsense that will really just cost you the game with your arrogance

[singersigner]

A scum RBer already flipped so are you postulating that there is both a scum JK and a scum RB?

[singersigner]

I know but he said something something "could be a scum JK"

[singersigner]

Ok now I'm confused. What means what now? Does "timeshifted" in a role PM mean it resolves the same night or doesn't it?

[singersigner]

I didn't even fucking know there were roles that would resolve instantly, I just assumed everything resolved the next day

[singersigner]

Yeah - it was just a dumb coincidence that I described my role as timeshifted. I didn't realize that was a mechanic that actually bypassed the innate timeshift on actions.

Well this isn't promising

[singersigner]

Ok...processing more tomorrow then...when I'm less drunk...

[singersigner]

CAN WE PLEASE LYNCH ME FIRST THEN I TEALLY DO NOT WANT TO BE RESPKNISBLE FOR ANOTHER LOSS

[singersigner]

Oh fine

vote: Anatole Kuragin

[singersigner]

Uh...awkward timing

[singersigner]

Ah well. I was hoping someone would react to me wanting to die first and I guess no one took the bait. I was trying to see if molla would feel the same way I did about just getting our lynch out of the way. Sorry I wavered on PeregrineV. Wish I just stuck to my guns and didn't delay it any further. A 100 page game is hard to turn around a general negative read on even if I wasn't ever the first scum read for anyone, I certainly could've easily been a mislynch.

Man I was pretty sure molla was coasting scum, too bad my streak couldn't last. GG all.

[singersigner]

Oh that's fucked up. Two different mafia roleblockers?

Also, three total roleblocked doesn't seem to stack up with town power.